AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

[AdzH]

...wow. Good show Kipfizh.

I'm not as avid follower as some of the people here profess to be, but I doth my cap to the quality of your report writting and hope the masses appreciate the effort it entails.

Next beer's on me.

[kipfizh]

Kip, quick question, how is the idiots personality described in-game?

All described as 'Very Ambitious'.

[brambleten]

still an awesome read Kip. definitely worth the wait.

KUTGW

[BenArsenal]

Awesome.

[iacovone]

Cracking news seeing the latest reports up Kip, very enjoyable read as always

Sheriffs definitely had the better season there, a treble

[kipfizh]

Just want to cover the issue of the time we're having between reports:

First off, I'm really not offended by people being impatient for updates, because in a weird kind of way, nagging me is a compliment, and says you're still interested in the experiment. Which is a good thing As for help writing it, at the risk of being a total control freak I'm going to plough on myself - I wouldn't know what bits to give away, because sometimes even writing up the number crunching parts I spot something a little weird, and go off to investigate if something interesting has caused it.

That isn't to say I don't appreciate the offer, so cheers - but I actually like doing it

That said, this report has taken a HUGE time to arrive, so I apologise for that - it was partly the pox, partly ridiculous work pressures, and certainly had nothing to do with waning interest. Believe me, I want to see what happens as much as you do, and although I'm always a season ahead of you, I am impatient for myself to finish so I can play another year!

Going forward, the work pressure isn't going to ease (don't get me started on that subject) but on the plus side, I won't get the pox again

I really don't want to reduce the size of the updates - I actually asked what people read and don't read before, in an attempt to cut unwanted sections out, but it seems everyone's interested in different things, and whenever someone says 'I don't care about the ones to watch', someone else says 'But I do!'.

And finally, in all seriousness, thanks for your patience - I know there was a debate on the last page, but I don't see anything wrong in that, and I'm fortunate that after a month away, not only are you still waiting for an update but you're still talking on the thread. Believe me, just as you like to see posts from me, I like to see them from you. I can't believe this is appearing on page 11

And I promise (hold me to it), you won't have to wait for a month for the next one.

[BenArsenal]

They should make you honorary member.

Did you know that I'm going to play for the Bandits?

[kipfizh]

They should make you honorary member.

Did you know that I'm going to play for the Bandits?

I know, I drafted you You seemed pretty decent, and were actually my first choice pick in this round.

For those who don't have a scoobies what we're on about, check out Wegason's excellent experiment here:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=114252

[markymarky]

Wow. Did Striker 3 kill Capello's cat or something?

and by cat, I mean son... Maybe fab Fabs' continental disposition makes Glasgow just a bit too dour and droukit for him to fly up for a viewing. Say Kip, what exactly did Rangers' European run that gave Striker 3 seven goals in eight games consist of? Eliminated in the Champions League first knockout round? I'm assuming it was mostly pre-Christmas, so very surprised someone didn't shell out big money for him in the transfer window.

O idiots, why must you be so idiotic. I'm still holding out for them mellowing a bit as they reach their mid-20s and realise that they're wasting their talent. Fat chance. :'( Exciting to see the original Bandits really come into their own, though, fifteen years plus of spectacular dominance ahead!

The Bandits' goal figures are incredible! That there are only four points in the league seems a little misleading, even. League One's gonna be easy peasy, I bet.

[GreyedOutMan]

Kip - WOW! Thats all i can say. Dont cut anything, it's so fantastic! Out of interest, how long would you say it takes you to actually do each update? If you sat down and did it constantly? It looks like SO much work! Seriously impressive. And i reckon we might see a big FA cup run from one of the teams next year - the squads are improving so fast that it seems inevitable that they will get consecutive promotions up to the Premiership, and that would probably mean that they should be challenging for the FA Cup and League Cup next year. Would be cool to see one of them in the Europa League/UEFA Cup before they're even in the Premiership!!

Also - it occurs to me that with Man City and Chelsea already money-bagsing it up, and there now being two "bandits-style" clubs, do you think we might eventually see one of those four having a real shocker of a season? Could it be that the scum (Sheriffs, sorry but I'm a traditionalist!) might go down? Who knows, might even coincide with a wonderfully dramatic demise of the real life North Londoners who play in white and the toilet-seat party I've been planning since I was six?! Or do people think they are likely to sustain their Premiership status, once gained, throughout the experiment?

[PRDH]

Great season for the Bandits (and the Sheriffs too, but that's not as worthy of celebration), and great update too kip.

I think the Championship might be the Bandit's stumbling block, but with them willing to splash the cash about anything is possible. Will we see some real life stars turning out in the Bandit's colours.

[ZJ]

Awesome work as always Kip. Keep it up.

[Darkwain]

Long may striker 3 remain at Rangers

I predict the USA will pick him up next season seeing as Cappello dont want him

[OrientMartin]

Great report Kip.

With the Bandits rising so quickly surely Striker 3 will spend another couple of years with Rangers and then return to lead the Bandits to premiership victory.

You heard it here first.

[daemonic]

Brilliant update and well worth the wait

[Spleen!]

Great update Kip, good to see both sides getting promotion again. KUTGW!

[Vintage]

YAY!!!! Great Update Kip.

[deltablue]

Yay, a birthday present (even though it was yesterday). Best I've had this year. Anyway I wasn't surprised at the double promotions. I always thought the faltering would be League 1 at least (but more likely the championship), not that it stopped the sheriffs failing first time but they've made up for it well enough. Also great to see the massive wages of certain players has paid off, at least as much as it could.

[BristolWhite]

Great update Kip - thank you

Keeps me coming back to the Board to check if the next update has been posted.

Keep up the good work

[Samuel Vimes]

Thanks for the update

Some season for the Sheriffs! Playing 63 games and coming away with all three trophies, impressive stuff.

Hope for a local derby in the Paint Pot.

[Netm]

All described as 'Very Ambitious'.

Quite ironic, if they're so ambitious one would think they'd get off their asses and, you know, get better. Oh well the mind of an idiot is a peculiar one

The reason I asked was because the starlets personality are described as "perfectionist" so I wondered if there was something like that for the idiots. A small detail, but I got me quite curious.

And as always, awesome work with the updates, I already can't wait for the next one!

[BenArsenal]

Quite ironic, if they're so ambitious one would think they'd get off their asses and, you know, get better. Oh well the mind of an idiot is a peculiar one

The reason I asked was because the starlets personality are described as "perfectionist" so I wondered if there was something like that for the idiots. A small detail, but I got me quite curious.

And as always, awesome work with the updates, I already can't wait for the next one!

Ambition is one thing, playing is another. They could be very ambitious but lazy and/or stubborn.

I am also very ambitous, but I do naff all about it and laze around all day.

[Denther]

Excellent report Kip, fantastic as usual and well worth the wait. I think the teams will meet again in the Championship. Although I think they will both only be there for a maximum of a year. It would be good to see the Bandits get to the Premier League and re-sign some of the starlets.

I'm hoping for a big cup run from them next year, semi's of the League Cup is my prediction

KUTGW Kip!!

Oh and I think that stiker three hasn't been picked as he wears flip flops and eats jam. (If anyone understands the reference they will get a virtual cookie )

[kipfizh]

Sweet update

One thought for update - as you're now simming with many leagues, would it be possible to see the top six in the UEFA coefficients, to see whether there's any changes in the strongest leagues over time?

Certainly, in fact that sounds like a good new section:

World View – National Coefficients

The top twenty European countries, by national coefficient, which affects European qualification:

(Champions League: 4, UEFA Cup: 3)

1 (-). Spain – 88.954

2 (-). England – 83.896

3 (-). Italy – 75.410

(Champions League: 3, UEFA Cup: 3)

4 (-). Germany – 62.854

5 (-). France – 53.573

6 (-). Russia – 46.375

(Champions League: 2, UEFA Cup: 4)

7 (-). Romania – 42.183

8 (-). Portugal – 40.249

9 (-). Holland – 39.130

(Champions League: 2, UEFA Cup: 3)

10 (-). Scotland – 34.275

11 (-). Denmark – 30.417

12 (-). Turkey – 30.300

13 (-). Ukraine – 29.575

14 (-). Belgium – 29.367

15 (-). Greece – 28.999

(Champions League: 1, UEFA Cup: 3)

16 (-). Switzerland – 28.225

17 (-). Serbia – 23.125

18 (-). Israel – 21.250

19 (-). Czech Rep – 20.700

20 (-). Norway – 19.550

Dropping out:

None

The top three are extremely comfortable, while those with three Champions League spots will probably keep them for a while. The closest battle seems to be between Greece and Switzerland for a second Champions League place.

[kipfizh]

Say Kip, what exactly did Rangers' European run that gave Striker 3 seven goals in eight games consist of? Eliminated in the Champions League first knockout round? I'm assuming it was mostly pre-Christmas, so very surprised someone didn't shell out big money for him in the transfer window.

They went straight into the group stages, where they picked up seven points in six games, Chelsea and Ajax finishing ahead of them. Striker 3 scored five of their nine goals, including a hattrick in a 5-1 win at home to Partizan Belgrade (who gave them six of their seven points, the other a draw at home with Ajax).

He then scored twice in a UEFA Cup home 3-3 draw with Leverkusen, before they lost 1-0 in the away leg to go out.

[Wegason]

Certainly, in fact that sounds like a good new section:

World View – National Coefficients

The top twenty European countries, by national coefficient, which affects European qualification:

(Champions League: 4, UEFA Cup: 3)

1 (-). Spain – 88.954

2 (-). England – 83.896

3 (-). Italy – 75.410

(Champions League: 3, UEFA Cup: 3)

4 (-). Germany – 62.854

5 (-). France – 53.573

6 (-). Russia – 46.375

(Champions League: 2, UEFA Cup: 4)

7 (-). Romania – 42.183

8 (-). Portugal – 40.249

9 (-). Holland – 39.130

(Champions League: 2, UEFA Cup: 3)

10 (-). Scotland – 34.275

11 (-). Denmark – 30.417

12 (-). Turkey – 30.300

13 (-). Ukraine – 29.575

14 (-). Belgium – 29.367

15 (-). Greece – 28.999

(Champions League: 1, UEFA Cup: 3)

16 (-). Switzerland – 28.225

17 (-). Serbia – 23.125

18 (-). Israel – 21.250

19 (-). Czech Rep – 20.700

20 (-). Norway – 19.550

Dropping out:

None

The top three are extremely comfortable, while those with three Champions League spots will probably keep them for a while. The closest battle seems to be between Greece and Switzerland for a second Champions League place.

Co-efficient tracking! Why didn't I think of suggesting that?

That is something I am really interested in following, as you know from my old experiment, so I'll look forward to watching the leagues move up and down

Thanks Kip.

[deltablue]

Just thought of something, this is playing out perfectly. not the promotion-fest and the fact the bandits are doing better but it really is a proper western chase. The Sheriffs consistently on the tail of the bandits. Sadly it won't be the same in the premiership (if they meet before then its still a race to get away/cut bandits off) but hey. So the sheriffs staying down first time was actually a good thing in this context. Oh and congrats to the Sheriffs for winning at our ground. Next time you might like to try against us though.

[Sir_Liam]

Excellent update.

I'm not surprised they both got promoted, and I expect the Sheriffs to do it again. The Bandits will find it harder in League One though, and I predict a play-off defeat.

Co-efficient tracking is an excellent idea.

I wouldn't mind following how Turkey's co-efficient goes myself as on a holiday game I ran far into the future it's really dropped off and is something like 34th. The league isn't playable, and from a brief look at the teams they still have good players. Really bizarre.

[Wegason]

Excellent update.

I'm not surprised they both got promoted, and I expect the Sheriffs to do it again. The Bandits will find it harder in League One though, and I predict a play-off defeat.

Co-efficient tracking is an excellent idea.

I wouldn't mind following how Turkey's co-efficient goes myself as on a holiday game I ran far into the future it's really dropped off and is something like 34th. The league isn't playable, and from a brief look at the teams they still have good players. Really bizarre.

Full detail and whether the league is playable has a massive affect on the competitiveness of leagues and teams years in the future.

[kipfizh]

Full detail and whether the league is playable has a massive affect on the competitiveness of leagues and teams years in the future.

Indeed - in the rankings, the highest league I'm not running is the Russian league, sixth in the co-efficients, so it'll be interesting to see if they can maintain that.

If they don't, it isn't necessarily because of the playable leagues, it may be because Russia have (in real life) just gone through a decent patch. But when regens get a great chance from one country, it makes sense if they do well.

[Samuel Vimes]

Yeah, there have only been 3 seasons as well, so Russia still have that great 08 season (11.25 points, Zenit won wafer cup) to count on.

89 is actually a record coefficient. It implies five seasons of something like England 08 IRL (3 quarter-finalists in CL + a 4th team into CL play-offs + 5-7 teams all reaching the last 16 of the wafer cup). Though it's only from about 05 when the wafer cup group stage was introduced that nations could really start to earn so high coefficients, so a record doesn't mean that much.

[Muzgrob]

Wow, great update.

I can't believe striker 3 hasn't been recognised by either international team yet, unless he just doesn't want to play for the other one.

I look forward to some more updates and I hope you keep doing co-efficient updates even if it is every other season as that is something that looks rather interesting to track.

[~Ian~]

Great updates, well worth the wait. It's always good to see what extra new bits are added in, the UEFA co-efficients above should be interesting to follow as we get further into this.

KUTVGW

[markymarky]

it's not really something for this experiment (we want the Superstars to have the best careers possible, I think), but it'd be interesting to see what effect personality has on international choices. I think the shy, retiring Superstars may have been more tempted to choose to play for smaller nations than the Idiots, who'll presumably hold out until they're 30 and still terrible before they finally decide to give Zambia etc. a go, although maybe the plight of Strikers 3 and 4 says otherwise.

Hey I just realised, the Idiot goalkeeper was chosen for England above GK 2? Boy, Fabio really hates Rangers. I can't help but feel it'll turn out to be a shame that the two left mids and three of the centre mids have chosen England, they'll spend a career getting in the way of each other. Although I see that the left mids have started 15 matches between them. Is Capello madly playing them both at the same time?

[Darkwain]

Just had another thought, If stiker 3 is still playing in Scotland after 5 seasons does he not gain the ability to be selected by Scotland if he has no International caps, and im assuming these players are very loyal will he select them as is has been his "home" for those years

[BenArsenal]

Just had another thought, If stiker 3 is still playing in Scotland after 5 seasons does he not gain the ability to be selected by Scotland if he has no International caps, and im assuming these players are very loyal will he select them as is has been his "home" for those years

I don't think that really applies. England and Scotland are part of GB, and there's only one passport for both.

(I know, this debate again. Probably mess the whole thing up. :o)

What was Striker 3's other nationality anyway? Why won't he play for that other country?

EDIT: Just saw that it was USA. Maybe England's loss would be the Americans' gain.

[Sir_Liam]

Full detail and whether the league is playable has a massive affect on the competitiveness of leagues and teams years in the future.

I'm aware of that, but the fact that Turkey has dropped to the level of the likes of Bosnia, Belarus and Iceland seemed extremely unusual to me, playable or not. I only have 9 leagues running.

[ivanro]

I find myself rooting more and more for the Sheriffs I guess it's the whole underdog thing.

Anyway, as always, great job kip!

[deltoro]

Great update, well worth to wait

[magicmastermind124]

Kip, every time you close the game the detail settings are lost. So make sure that every time FM09 is closed you change the details settings on startup. I've just found this out now with my experiment I am doing.

[iacovone]

I'm not sure that's correct tbh. My experiment has stuck with its detail settings. Maybe you've not confirmed and then saved them?

[LiamBrady]

Great update, worth the wait and KUTGW!

[kipfizh]

Kip, every time you close the game the detail settings are lost. So make sure that every time FM09 is closed you change the details settings on startup. I've just found this out now with my experiment I am doing.

Mine seem to have saved now, I think they are lost if you change the inc files in any way.

[AB-forever]

Yay Denmark has 2 Champions League spots :D

And oh BTW, great update Kip

[Falcore]

I really liked having seen the pre season transfers a week before your actuall report it got me more exited. I would love if you could continue giving a teaser two three days before the actuall report.

[zyzzy]

Premiership Analysis - Reputation

.....

Elsewhere

Bandits – 2797 (+782)

Sheriffs – 2004 (+527)

....

Nice update, as always, Kip. Any chance we could get the high/low reputations for the lower leagues? I'm curious as to how the Bandits and Sheriffs reputations compare to the teams they are competing against, and also if the reputation gaps between leagues changes much over time (i.e. the gap between premiereship and championship or league 1 and league 2).

Here are some made up numbers

Lower League reputations

Championship: High 6500, Low 4500

League 1: High 5000, Low 4000

League 2: High 3500, Low 2500

...

Thanks again for all your efforts on this thread.

[Vintage]

hi kip, just clicked on the first page by mistake and re-read the 1st post you made. Do you think it would be a good idea to post a link to each update you make on there. Since theres about 4 pages between each update. It might bring even more people to read the experiment if they can click straight to the updates already posted instead of scouring through all our dross

[Adamw]

Fantasic stuff Kipfizh.

Anything the Bandits can do, the Sheriffs can do it better

[magicmastermind124]

Mine seem to have saved now, I think they are lost if you change the inc files in any way.

I forgot to save them, sorry for the confusion!

[Meitheisman]

I can't believe striker 3 hasn't been recognised by either international team yet, unless he just doesn't want to play for the other one.

That would indeed be very interesting to know. Is there a way for you to check if he refused a call up from the US Kip?

I really liked having seen the pre season transfers a week before your actuall report it got me more exited. I would love if you could continue giving a teaser two three days before the actuall report.

I'll second that, the tease was really good even though it took me a while to come post after the updates... for once

Any chance we could get the high/low reputations for the lower leagues? I'm curious as to how the Bandits and Sheriffs reputations compare to the teams they are competing against, and also if the reputation gaps between leagues changes much over time (i.e. the gap between premiereship and championship or league 1 and league 2).

Here are some made up numbers

Lower League reputations

Championship: High 6500, Low 4500

League 1: High 5000, Low 4000

League 2: High 3500, Low 2500

...

I like this suggestion too.

Excellent work as usual Kip, I really enjoyed this update, seeing both clubs be so successful is kind of refreshing after so many years of frustration in the 07 experiment

And I'm sorry to bring this up but are you sure the "World View - Distribution of 180+ CA players" breakdown is correct? You listed 14 Bandits as playing for England but unless I'm mistaken only 10 have been called up for England (LB1, RB1, CB4, LM1, LM2, RM2, CM1, CM3, CM4 & ST2.)