W-M Discussion Thread. An attempt to recreate the historical formation.

[Supergers]

I am going to have a go at this. What settings do you's use for the two dms and the two ams. Forward runs, run with ball, long shots. through balls, cross ball.

I am playing with valencia season 1, will post some screens later when i get through some games.

thanks

[Manager23]

How can i make my corners even more effective? my corner taker seems to be pumping the balls into the keeper's arms.

[Intercept]

How can i make my corners even more effective? my corner taker seems to be pumping the balls into the keeper's arms.

Set your corner's to "6 Yard Box" and then go into your tactics and set your best corner taker to take them preferably using opposite foots (i.e. Left side taken by a right footed player). Mine are taken by Ballack on the Right and Deco on the Left and Terry/Drogba and Essien always cause problems in the box.

[Manager23]

How can i make my team consistent? its like one match they dominate and score at least 4 or 5 goals and the next they waste so many shots on goal for the full 90 mins

O to intercept

Do i put terry or ballack to challenge the keeper? or just the tactic settings for the corner takers will be enough?

[higgins]

Im not at home so I dont remember my exact settings but will give you what I am using.

Position      GK        DR/L         DC        DMC/AMC      FR/FL/ST

Creative      None      Little       Little    Little/Much  Much

Mentality     1         11           11        13           15

Closing Down  Own Area  Whole Pitch  Own Half  Whole Pitch  Whole Pitch

Passing       Short     Short        Short     Mixed        Direct

I noticed your full backs have high closing down instructions, don't you think this setting could be an issue?

My defenders have similar closing down and mentality settings, imo they work better together and are more solid.

[Intercept]

I have Terry as Challenge Keeper, Ballack is one of my corner takers, so I can't really use him in the box as much as I would like, but when I do, I have him on "Attack Ball from Deep".

Update on my save though. Going well played another 5 games and got 4 wins and another loss. Played Man Utd away from Home and Ronaldo seemed to have a field day running past Terry, lost it 3-2 in the end from one of those wonder goals from John O'shea. He ran through Essien, Mikel and Terry before unleashing a 20 yard strike past Cech. I wasn't impressed, but meh, what can I do?

Anyhow, currently sitting joint top of the leauge with Arsenal at: Played 14 - Won 10 - Drawn 3 - Lost 1. With a pretty similar Goal Difference.

P.S. I also probably wont be able to update much, as something happened to my Graphics Card on my PC and now I'm on a laptop which is sooo old-school It can't run games! Will need to sort that out before I can start tinkering around more. It's beginning to get there for me though.

[mag man]

I am going to have a go at this. What settings do you's use for the two dms and the two ams. Forward runs, run with ball, long shots. through balls, cross ball.

I am playing with valencia season 1, will post some screens later when i get through some games.

thanks

DMC have forward runs mixed, try through balls mixed and rest are rare.

AMC have forward runs, run with ball and long shots mixed with through balls often. I did have them on forward runs often but they break forward more and I wanted them to hold back a bit.

I noticed your full backs have high closing down instructions, don't you think this setting could be an issue?

My defenders have similar closing down and mentality settings, imo they work better together and are more solid.

They were on lower closing down but I am much happy with them closing down high, I find they go meet the wingers a lot quicker rather than sitting back. My 2 DMC's and fullbacks basically close down everything whilst CB sweeps.

[mag man]

I have Terry as Challenge Keeper, Ballack is one of my corner takers, so I can't really use him in the box as much as I would like, but when I do, I have him on "Attack Ball from Deep".

Update on my save though. Going well played another 5 games and got 4 wins and another loss. Played Man Utd away from Home and Ronaldo seemed to have a field day running past Terry, lost it 3-2 in the end from one of those wonder goals from John O'shea. He ran through Essien, Mikel and Terry before unleashing a 20 yard strike past Cech. I wasn't impressed, but meh, what can I do?

Anyhow, currently sitting joint top of the leauge with Arsenal at: Played 14 - Won 10 - Drawn 3 - Lost 1. With a pretty similar Goal Difference.

P.S. I also probably wont be able to update much, as something happened to my Graphics Card on my PC and now I'm on a laptop which is sooo old-school It can't run games! Will need to sort that out before I can start tinkering around more. It's beginning to get there for me though.

I have Terry and Drogba attack GK, wingers attack far post, AMC lurk outside area, DMC back if needed, fullbacks stay back.

Not a bad start to the season, I got 80 somthing points but wasnt enough to win league in my game. Man U had 101

Shame about your PC, hopefully fixed soon

[Jazzfusion]

After reading this thread whilst half way through a match, I decided to try and implement it for my Villarreal side, as I definitely have the players for the formation. So far my results have been excellent, and we are getting stronger as my players adapt to the formation.

Results so far

I implemented it half way through the Ath. Madrid match, at the time it was 0-0, we went on to win 3-0. Conceeding only 1 goal in that time has impressed me, and I actually beat Barce 2-0, but my computer crashed after the game and it had to be replayed. I've started to play through the middle (which I think is a must for my side when playing away) and have noticed an increase in possession. I'm still messing around with my strikers, I'd like them to score more, I have my FL & FR on FWR often, and everything on mixed (except for mentality, creative and passing) for the centre striker. I'm also finding that I need to play a high line regardless of the opposition's strikers, even with the slow Sakho as my CB. So far so good, though.

[mag man]

After reading this thread whilst half way through a match, I decided to try and implement it for my Villarreal side, as I definitely have the players for the formation. So far my results have been excellent, and we are getting stronger as my players adapt to the formation.

Results so far

I implemented it half way through the Ath. Madrid match, at the time it was 0-0, we went on to win 3-0. Conceeding only 1 goal in that time has impressed me, and I actually beat Barce 2-0, but my computer crashed after the game and it had to be replayed. I've started to play through the middle (which I think is a must for my side when playing away) and have noticed an increase in possession. I'm still messing around with my strikers, I'd like them to score more, I have my FL & FR on FWR often, and everything on mixed (except for mentality, creative and passing) for the centre striker. I'm also finding that I need to play a high line regardless of the opposition's strikers, even with the slow Sakho as my CB. So far so good, though.

Good start. Its strong defensively for you but still scoring. Where are your goals coming from?

Just one thing I have different to you and that is my FR/L are on FWR mixed and RWB often. I find because there positioned so far up the pitch it gets them to just hold back a bit and are a bit more involved in play.

[Jazzfusion]

Mostly from my FL/R and AMC

[mag man]

Mostly from my FL/R and AMC

I have a similar issue, I want to get my ST more involved in the goals. He does however still play well and gets a lot of assists.

[RossoneriGunner]

Hi guys, I think I am getting near to the time where I am going to start a new game as I feel my experimenting has got me to where I want to be. The following stats include all matches (Friendlies, League Cup, CL) P 27, W 24, D 2, L 1, For 68, Conceded 16. These include friendly wins of 11-0 over Boreham Wood, 6-0 over NEC, a CL 4-2 away win over Anderlecht and a 5-0 drubbing of Newcastle in the League Cup with all 5 goals coming in the first 38 mins. Today I am going to start an experiment with my d-line. I am going to start it at it lowest setting (1) and then play the first half then put it up by one each time and see what happens to the other players. At the moment I have been playing with it on 3 and my DMC's are playing either just before the halfway line and just over the halfway line and have been linking up with my AMC's perfectly, they are playing that well that Fabregas has overall Stats of Apps 16 (1), Goals 6, Assts 5, MoM 5, 3 yellow cards and an avereage rating of 7.16. And Nasri is Apps 18, Goals 7, Assts 5, 2 yellow cards and verage rating of 7.14. Jazzfusion I have my FC/ST on a lower mentality (-2,-3) and HUB, this means that my FC is holding the ball and my AMC's and wingers go past him and then he passes to them and they get goals almost at will. Adebayor has also scored 12 goals, 8 assists in 16 appearances. Anyway I will post my final settings either today or tomorrow.

[mag man]

Wicked results there. Looking forward to comparing your settings with mine.

[Jazzfusion]

How have you got your back five set up? Mine are all on closing down 14, except the DC who is set 7. All set on tight zonal marking. We're giving away lots of chances recently and I don't know how to stop the leaks.

[mag man]

All on mentality 11. All closing down 15, DC on 11. Tight zonal marking.

Back 3 FWR rarely, DMC FWR mixed.

[RossoneriGunner]

I have got FB's, DC and even my DMC's set to tight zonal marking. Mentality of 9 for FB's and DC, 12 for DMC's. Creative freedom of 1 (furthest left) for FB's and DC and 12 for DMC's. Closing down for FB's, DC and DMC's is 14. Passing at the moment is the last notch of short for the back line, BUT, I am going to play with it set at 3-4, because my full backs are passing long to my wingers and not passing to my DMC's who are almost standing within touching distance and this sometimes means that I am losing possession, so it seems they are using it as Short/Mixed, so its on trial at the moment. My DMC's are on Mentality 12 and 11 passing (middle notch on slider). The FB's and DC are on Forward Runs, Run with Ball, Long Shots and Through Balls all on rarely and Cross Ball mixed and from deep. Also on set pieces FB's and DC are set to STAY BACK. My DMC's are set on Forward Runs, Run With Ball, Long Shots all on rarely, Through Balls Often, Cross Ball rarely/deep and both on HUB and set pieces to Stay Back if Needed. I now use OI and I mark players using both Tight and Closing Down always and Tackling Hard and Show on to Weaker Foot.

[Jazzfusion]

How have you got your width/d-line set up? I'm playing really narrow, on 6, which I'm happy with, but I'm not sure about d-line. I seem to be conceeding more with it lower, hmm...

[mag man]

Narrow (6)

Defensive line (11)

[mag man]

I don't use OI. I find them good but I hate setting them up.

[Jazzfusion]

Rossoneri my FBs were doing the same, I set them to 4 for passing, and playing through the middle really helps to avoid them punting it to the wingers.

I'm also not sure about RWB, my AMCs & FLRs seem to lose the ball quite a bit, when they have a better option. I've also set my STc's passing to short, still to see results from that.

[RossoneriGunner]

I have width set to 11 (middle notch) and focus passing down both flanks. Tempo is set to first one of Quick. I have just played WBA at home and won 3-0, they played 4-4-1-1 so I pushed up high and stopped there FC and AMC from playing because they had no space and used my OI as well. When I watch the matches my players seem to be running endlessly but at the end of matches they are still on low to high 80's. Also I have set my throw in takers as well as I did'nt used to bother but I found Sagna and Clichy in the penalty area and wondered why they were there when I did'nt have them set to making runs etc and it was because they were taking the throw ins so if we had a throw in by the corner flag they were there to take them, now I set my throw in takers to AMC's or Wingers.

[RossoneriGunner]

My AMC's are set to Mixed passing and my Wingers and ST/FC to first notch of direct. With my ST/FC's mentality lower than my wingers and one more than my AMC's and HUB he holds the ball and with passing direct he passes to Nasri and Fabregas (my AMC's) who then burst through the defence and either score or cause havoc allowing others to score.

[RossoneriGunner]

Does anyone know if you set 'use playmaker' in team instructions and then choose 4 players ie AMC's and DMC's, do all these 4players become playmakers or do they start with the first one only. Say I set Fabregas, Nasri (AMC's) and Veloso , Fazio (DMC's), would Fabregas become the playmaker and if he went off injured would Nasri then become playmaker and so on. Because I was thinking of making my Magical Square playmakers to see what happens. Just a thought.

[Jazzfusion]

I just set my DMCs to hold up ball & moved RWB to mixed for my AMCs and it made a huge difference. Playing away at Betis and we kept possession really well, having 63% in the end. I found that with the DMC holding up the ball we have time to organise, rather than trying to move it up the field quickly, lose it, and then having to defend whilst most of my players are out of position. We won 4-1, with my DMC Bolzoni having a hand in 3 of the goals

[RossoneriGunner]

Nice one Jazzy. I have a nice test in my next match CL away to Juventus...here goes 'Into the valley of death' and all that stuff...LOL, see you all in a minute. I have some real testers coming up...Juventus a CL, Bolton a PL, Man City h Q/F League Cup, then Chelsea a PL, Liverpool h PL, Tottenham h PL, Man Utd a PL, West Ham a PL. Should be fun

[RossoneriGunner]

Oh well another boring game, watching perfect football and goals galore. YES the Old Lady has been stuffed. Juventus 1 Arsenal 5, HT 1-1, del Piero 2mins, Fabregas 9mins. Then Nasri 51mins, 55mins, 62mins (hat-trick 11mins) and RVP 90+2. I think I will now start a new game. The reason of starting a new game is that I need to look at other players for this Formation (WM) rather than buying for a 442. So instead of looking for midfielders who can play across the middle I need back up for wingers DMC and AMC. What have you guys done with your midfielders that cannot play either upfront or in a defensive position. I have got Fabregas retraining as an AMC.

[Jazzfusion]

Good luck Rossoneri

[mag man]

Does anyone know if you set 'use playmaker' in team instructions and then choose 4 players ie AMC's and DMC's, do all these 4players become playmakers or do they start with the first one only. Say I set Fabregas, Nasri (AMC's) and Veloso , Fazio (DMC's), would Fabregas become the playmaker and if he went off injured would Nasri then become playmaker and so on. Because I was thinking of making my Magical Square playmakers to see what happens. Just a thought.

I believe its only the top one. Probably best to use a DMC as there in a better position to influence the passing.

I have had them all on free role and worked ok but I stopped because I didnt want DMC's to free role.

[mag man]

Oh well another boring game, watching perfect football and goals galore. YES the Old Lady has been stuffed. Juventus 1 Arsenal 5, HT 1-1, del Piero 2mins, Fabregas 9mins. Then Nasri 51mins, 55mins, 62mins (hat-trick 11mins) and RVP 90+2. I think I will now start a new game. The reason of starting a new game is that I need to look at other players for this Formation (WM) rather than buying for a 442. So instead of looking for midfielders who can play across the middle I need back up for wingers DMC and AMC. What have you guys done with your midfielders that cannot play either upfront or in a defensive position. I have got Fabregas retraining as an AMC.

I retrain the players as either an AMC or DMC, if there a balanced player I would play him at DMC as this is where the passing game starts.

I would be tempted to play Fabregas as DMC and make him playmaker that way he wuill pull strings from behind.

[mag man]

I just set my DMCs to hold up ball & moved RWB to mixed for my AMCs and it made a huge difference. Playing away at Betis and we kept possession really well, having 63% in the end. I found that with the DMC holding up the ball we have time to organise, rather than trying to move it up the field quickly, lose it, and then having to defend whilst most of my players are out of position. We won 4-1, with my DMC Bolzoni having a hand in 3 of the goals

I like my players to break quickly so dont use HUB, I do however have AMC's on RWB mixed, this probably stops them losing it as much and having a counter attack in behind.

[RossoneriGunner]

I like my players to break quickly so dont use HUB, I do however have AMC's on RWB mixed, this probably stops them losing it as much and having a counter attack in behind.

As mag man says it all depends on how you like to play, whether its gung-ho or build up with flair or like Wimbledon goalkeeper to FC...LOL. If you are happy with your set up then thats all that matters. Also it depends on your players Drogba will play a completely different way to Adebayor, Tevez or Torres so it is all about getting the best out of your players and playing to their strengths, so my settings may not suit your players and vice versa. If you read TT&F '09 they talk about Fabregas as a Deep-Lying playmaker, and they play between defence and midfield, but I have been training Fabregas as an AMC and now he is an accomplished AMC. It is the firsrt time I have tried retraining a player and was surprised it did not take long.

[Jazzfusion]

I absolutely agree with you.

Retraining players doesn't take too long if they're already competent in the position. I retrain most of my first team, it helps keep a small squad.

I've started a game with Bristol City, I'll let you know how I get on. So far the friendlies have gone well and we beat Wolves 2-0 in the first game of the season

[mag man]

As mag man says it all depends on how you like to play, whether its gung-ho or build up with flair or like Wimbledon goalkeeper to FC...LOL. If you are happy with your set up then thats all that matters. Also it depends on your players Drogba will play a completely different way to Adebayor, Tevez or Torres so it is all about getting the best out of your players and playing to their strengths, so my settings may not suit your players and vice versa. If you read TT&F '09 they talk about Fabregas as a Deep-Lying playmaker, and they play between defence and midfield, but I have been training Fabregas as an AMC and now he is an accomplished AMC. It is the firsrt time I have tried retraining a player and was surprised it did not take long.

The thing with Fabregas is he dominates the build up of play, and in my system he would be wasted in an AMC because there job is to shoot or through balls.

I use the DMC's to build up my moves with short passing and they pull the strings which Fabregas would be perfect for.

If it work for you then thats what matters

[higgins]

I agree with Jazzfusion, in my W-M I used to give one of my Dmc, the hold up the ball instruction, it's very useful to keep my gameplay organized, he dictates tempo quite well, so he acts as a playmaker even if I leave unticked the playmaker box, of course you need the right player to do that.

[GuruStew]

Througout my history in FM, I've tended toward a narrow 4-1-3-2 formation with 3 CMs bunched and running forward behind 2 quick Strikers. But I've gotten away from it in 2009 and have been considering a version of the W-M for some time now. Happy to have found this string.

I'm going to have a go with Gateshead in an attempt to bring stylish football back to ONE side of the Tyne.

I am, however, having a hard time visualizing Mag-Man and Ross's evolved formations. Would it be too much to ask that you each spell out your formations as they are currently in one place or provide the tactic set up for download? (I have NEVER downloaded tactics before, but would in this case to have a look at the sliders and individual instructions just to get my head around not having CMs and trying to fill that middle space.)

Great thread, guys. Time to try it out with the minnows.

Up the Heed?

~Stew

[RossoneriGunner]

I have just started a new game with Arsenal and played my first friendly away to Gil Vicente of Portugal and won 7-1 using my new WM formation. Also I might think about retraining Fabregas as DMC...mmmm.

[RossoneriGunner]

Bl**dy game....LOL

[Manager23]

How can i play against Man Utd? When they play a 442 i get crushed. Im Chelsea btw and using the WM formation.

[RossoneriGunner]

Hi GuruStew, here is what I put on the first page,

............................Gk...........FB....... ..DC.........DMC's.........AMC's.........Wingers.. .......FC

Mentality................5.............6.......... ..6............11.............14................17 ............20

Creative Freedom.....6.............6............6.......... ..11.............15................17............1 8

Passing Style..........11...........13..........13........ ....13..............7.................6........... ..6

Closing Down...........6............14..........14........ ....14............16.................17........... .18

Fwd Runs.............Rarely.......Rare........Rare.... ....Rare...........11...............Often........O ften

Run With Ball........Rarely.......Rare........Rare........R are...........11...............Often........Often

Long Shots..........Rarely.......Rare........Rare...... ..Rare..........Often............Mixed........Mixe d

Thru Balls............Rarely.....Rare..........Rare.... ...Often.........Often............Mixed........Mix ed

Cross Ball............Rarely.....Mixed........Mixed..... ..Rare...........11...............Mixed........Mix ed

Cross From..........Rarely.....Deep.........Deep.......D eep.........Mixed............Mixed........Mixed

Cross Aim...........Rarely......Mixed........Mixed...... Mixed........Mixed.............Mixed.......Mixed

Distribution........Def Coll

Dist To.............(DMC)

Free Role................No.......No............No..... ......No...........No.................No.......... No

Hold Up Ball.............No.......No...........Yes........ ...No...........No................No..........Yes

These are just starting stats, I have set some of them to maximum, like the closing down, I thought it better to be safe than sorry, so they will be closing down opposing forwards big time from the start, then I can tweak it after I have played a few games.

But I think that I am in the final straight now and will hopefully be able to put my final settings on here either tonight or tomorrow.

[beri]

hi mag man!can u give link for this tac?i wanna test this!!pls!!tnx!im w8ing!!

[Jazzfusion]

People just don't wanna put the effort in these days, eh?

[crouchaldinho]

No they don't Jazzfusion.

Beri - cut out the 'text speak'. It hurts my eyes.

C.

[RossoneriGunner]

I have had a great time making this tactic and discussing it with other members and when it works it makes it all worth while.

[Manager23]

Is anyone having any success in keeping clean sheets? i cant seem to keep clean sheets for a number of games

[Jazzfusion]

At home I am keeping lots of clean sheets.

[Manager23]

Thanks alot RossineriGunner ur tactic saved my season! i was struggling throughout the whole campaign.

[RossoneriGunner]

Your welcome Manager23. Just started a new game with Arsenal and played the first 3 friendlies, Gil Vicente away won 7-1, Vit Guimaraes away won 4-1 and Academica away won 5-0 and Adebayor has got 7 goals in 4 games including a hat-trick against Academica. Next match is away to Braga and then home to the mighty Barcelona, that will be a nice test.

[tlm_77]

mag man - please could you look at http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=111069 to see if you can possibly share some of your findings that may help me with dominating possession, home and away.

[Manager23]

Your welcome Manager23. Just started a new game with Arsenal and played the first 3 friendlies, Gil Vicente away won 7-1, Vit Guimaraes away won 4-1 and Academica away won 5-0 and Adebayor has got 7 goals in 4 games including a hat-trick against Academica. Next match is away to Braga and then home to the mighty Barcelona, that will be a nice test.

The thing i wanna know is do u man mark players when ure up against teams like barce man utd liverpool etc. I feel that the uber quick players will just exploit the space behind the DC and John terry isnt someone whos a speeder