SIMPLICITY - How to make a SOLID & SIMPLE 4-4-2 set

[RIW123]

This is good.

Seem to be drawing too many games but only using the bal;anced tactic at the minute. Only lost 3 games in my first season with Leeds and im ending January, all 3 games were away too which isn't bad.

[crouchaldinho]

A quicky ...

which is best to play in your opinion when playing teams with their tempos?

if you play a slow team is it better to counter them and fly about the pitch? or not?

and if you are playing a quicker tempo players obviously need better stats but what in?

just reading a scout report and sayin the opp. play a slow tempo 442 through the middle

so if i played wide would i get through more, but risking they get more space?

all this opposites confuses my lickle brain! haha

Hey Pure0xygen - I'll be honest with you and say that I tend to keep it as simple as possible and I rarely make changes to my style based upon how the opposition are playing. I normally set up the way that I want to play in my three tactics at the beginning of the season and stick it out.

If you want to experiment with this when playing against slow tempos, my general advice would be to impose your style upon your opposition if you are a superior attacking side. Or, if you are inferior and defending, maybe look to speed things up and concentrate on making quick chances on the break rather than on possession.

Like I say though, the things I really pay attention to with scout reports are how the opposition are approaching the game in general and who their main threat is plus how they are likely to use him.

C.

[crouchaldinho]

This is good.

Seem to be drawing too many games but only using the bal;anced tactic at the minute. Only lost 3 games in my first season with Leeds and im ending January, all 3 games were away too which isn't bad.

Sounds good to me.

You were probably drawing too many due to being too conservative, i.e. sticking with a balanced approach instead of going attacking.

The opposition start defending against you quite quickly when you're on a good run of form, especially if you're a favourite in your division.

C.

[Garate]

I'm applying some of these principles to my 4-3-3. How would you set up the striker and the AML and AMR?

[crouchaldinho]

Garate - in what respect? I have only messed about with single striker formations a little bit. For the lone striker, I would go mixed runs and probably set him up more like the FCd with HUB instruction. I would pretty much set up the AML & AMR as ML/MR in my 4-4-2.

To be honest, I've not really setup a 4-3-3 before. I'm a 4-4-2 man!

Somebody needs to do a solid & simple 4-3-3 thread! Anyone care to take it on?

C.

[Garate]

Well, in the 4-3-3 you can have the back 4 plus the central midfielder as you defensive group, and the 2 other midfielders, the AMs and the striker as the attacking one, so your approach should work. I've been using the striker as you suggest, but I'm still unsure about the mentalities to give to the AMs.

[crouchaldinho]

I would have thought you'd want your AMR/L in advanced positions feeding off your deeper striker who would also make runs into the box for crosses etc. Why don't you try putting the wingers a few notches ahead of attacking unit mentality and the striker a notch behind? Forward runs often for wingers, mixed for striker. That's what I would try.

Play a friendly game or something and then watch how the front three interact.

[Garate]

I tried that in a game. Nothing great, but my team is going through a bad period (that's why I'm trying to get back to basics), so I'd better wait before saying anything definitive.

[crouchaldinho]

I was experimenting with a 4-4-1-1 recently and I couldn't really get the hang of setting the striker up.

I think what is important is ensuring that he has more to his game than a normal striker. He needs to hold the ball up, come deeper and get involved with play and work really hard for the team. It won't be any good playing a striker with low work rate, poor off the ball or low strength for instance.

I'd suggest the other important thing would be to have other attacking players making forward runs to support him. Maybe try this: leave the wingers on attacking unit mentality with forward runs often, give the striker one notch below team mentality & forward runs mixed, then make your attack-minded midfielder a couple of notches above team mentality with forward runs often. That might achieve the desired effect and be better than what I proposed above.

C.

[Garate]

Thanks, I'll try that. It sounds like a good idea. Setting up the lone striker is difficult. I get him pretty much involved in the play, and the wingers get a good amount of crosses, but we fail to score. Actually, I get more goals from the opposite AM finishing those crosses than from the striker, which would be fine it that'd happen often enough to win most of the games, but it's not the case.

[salkster2102]

Hi C again. My next game is in the fa cup second round (very important for my finances) against peterborough who are a division above me. They play a 3-5-2 formation but with a sweeper. So i'm thinking the striker setup you have won't really work as when the fcd lays it off to the fca the sweeper will get there first. Plus I really hate 3-5-2 formations and I can never seem to beat them. They are playing like every other team at the moment, defensive formation, possesion played, counter attack etc. What would you do in this instance? Also with the setting up of the am and dm, fcd and fca which side do you put them on? Left side of pitch or Right side of pitch?

[crouchaldinho]

Thanks, I'll try that. It sounds like a good idea. Setting up the lone striker is difficult. I get him pretty much involved in the play, and the wingers get a good amount of crosses, but we fail to score. Actually, I get more goals from the opposite AM finishing those crosses than from the striker, which would be fine it that'd happen often enough to win most of the games, but it's not the case.

Yes, I've found it tough to get a lone striker working well but then I don't really have an 'all-rounder' in my team at the moment so I gave up pretty quickly.

I guess its a case of trial and error. Let me know how you get on.

[crouchaldinho]

Hi C again. My next game is in the fa cup second round (very important for my finances) against peterborough who are a division above me. They play a 3-5-2 formation but with a sweeper. So i'm thinking the striker setup you have won't really work as when the fcd lays it off to the fca the sweeper will get there first. Plus I really hate 3-5-2 formations and I can never seem to beat them. They are playing like every other team at the moment, defensive formation, possesion played, counter attack etc. What would you do in this instance? Also with the setting up of the am and dm, fcd and fca which side do you put them on? Left side of pitch or Right side of pitch?

Salkster - Peterborough are playing like every other team probably due to your form. When you're winning lots of games, most sides will tend to play defensively against you unless they are on good form themselves or have a manager who is a bit more tactically adventurous.

I would tend to think about things holistically rather than looking at individual parts of the attack. Like I've said before in this thread, I don't tend to change very much because a) I'm lazy and b) I want to play to my own strengths, especially if the onus is on my side to attack.

The attacking 4-4-2 should cope with this possession-based approach. First of all, you will be closing down heavily in midfield and attack, hopefully stopping the opposition from having time on the ball in the first place. Second, you've overloading the opposition anyway with your 2 forwards, 2 wide players, attacking midfielder and fullbacks making forward runs.

What I would suggest for this tie is that you use the bench to store some 'backup' attacking talent. Keep two wingers on the bench, a midfielder and a forward. This is important because your players will probably get tired with a lot of heavy closing down. Be sure also to sub off any players who aren't doing the business in the second-half, either because they didn't like your team-talk or they are losing their individual battle on the pitch. Also, be careful with your team talk and be generally supportive because you are playing a higher division side.

How have you been getting on so far with the tactics Salkster?

[salkster2102]

Not too bad really considering I had too straight promotions from bsn to league two and i'm still using some players from that era. There aren't exactly many big scoring games but that may be due to how defensive the balanced tactic maybe as i'm using that one the most. I don't think I have right quality of strikers for the set so i'm having to focus on a good defense for now which is quite young. Once I get some better players I think I will shoot up the table but to say i'm 15th and am expected to finish bottom isn't a bad achievement really. Like I've said before I'm going to give it some time as I do like a good formation and to just keep it simple. My form hasn't been exactly great as I was 2-0 up at half time away from home against rochdale (league above me) but then I just collapsed and eventually lost on penalties in jpt.

[salkster2102]

We did it! 2-0 away from home to cause an upset in the FA CUP! We just hammered them not allowing them to play their game. Was 2-0 up after half an hour then they went down to ten men so they had no real comeback. I am really proud of my team after that performance and never knew they could play like that Thank you for getting me to take a risk C

Edit: Not a bad draw in the third round either getting macclesfield (BSP) or Crewe (L1) away. Please let it be macclesfield!

[crouchaldinho]

Salkster - sounds like you are doing alright and congratulations on the FA Cup win!

In terms of your league form, it might just be that you need to improve the standard of your first eleven to go on to that next level. It might also be that you're not being quite adventurous enough maybe? Also, as you have quite a young squad, take care to be supportive in team talks etc. as I find most of my youngsters are quite hard to manage in non-League. In certain positions, I am tending to play my older players at the moment even though my assistant tells me my youngsters are much better. Some of the youngsters were lacking in terms of mental stats and so they play as backups for the moment.

C.

[Toin]

Doing great with Man Utd atm.

I know it isn't such a big challange playing with Man U but I'm quite happy with the results.

I have only played 10 matches yet but still unbeaten (no really good opponents).

The tactics seems to be quite solid. Spurs didn't even shoot once.

The only minor problem i'm having is the possession. My opponent usually haves more possession than me. Do you have any idea's about getting more possession so I could be more dominant in the match, and score more goals?

Thanks for this post again, it has helped me understanding the game more.

[crouchaldinho]

Thanks for this post again, it has helped me understanding the game more.

Looks like you are doing quite nicely there Toin.

What I would personally suggest is to give it some more time before thinking about making any changes.

Of course, as you are playing with Manchester United, you could think about ignoring some of my preferences for passing above and shortening your passing as you have top quality players (unlike my non-League Saints team ). You could make you defenders much less direct and make your attacking unit play shorter passing, especially in your attacking tactic.

As you are a new manager, you need to give the team some time to 'gel' together and to feel comfortable with your new instructions. Also, it may be that your team are 'unhappy' at having an inexperienced manager in charge (that is, if you have set your manager rep low).

I have noticed this team gelling/settling in period, especially when I was playing in beta testing. My Saints team had awful gelling when I first took over and the results at the beginning of the season were underwhelming to say the least. However, it all came together in November and December and I was up to 2nd by Christmas. I didn't change anything tactically and just kept things consistent and encouraged my team. I'd expect to see a similar pattern emerge in your game.

My other advice would be to think about creating a control tactic, as per my general tips (also see WWFan's threads as it is his conception that I am referring to). This is much more patient and slower, as well as opening up more space for you. You might need it as you will quickly start to come up against sides who play very defensively against you. Look at the odds especially.

Good stuff so far anyway. Hope some of this helps.

[Magnakai Haaskivi]

This is a great post, not only because it gives you an idea for a basic formation but also because it gives you some very basic fundamental explanations; I read the TT&M, and it's nice to see that boiled down into something a little more manageable. I'm going to try these out tonight.

[Macgyver0]

crouchaldinho could you tell me your aproach in team talks?

[crouchaldinho]

crouchaldinho could you tell me your aproach in team talks?

Just common sense really plus I always check the assistant feedback.

In general, I'm more supportive of players when playing against big clubs. I tend to put less pressure on as well.

When we're favourites, I tend to be a little more demanding and harsher if the players aren't performing to standard. I attempt to put more pressure on players who are getting complacent.

Just general good sense and I try to follow what I would say in the real life situation.

I also try to have a good subs bench so that I can make some changes if players aren't reacting the right way and bring some key players on who could change the game for me.

That's about it really.

[Toin]

My other advice would be to think about creating a control tactic, as per my general tips (also see WWFan's threads as it is his conception that I am referring to). This is much more patient and slower, as well as opening up more space for you. You might need it as you will quickly start to come up against sides who play very defensively against you. Look at the odds especially.

Good stuff so far anyway. Hope some of this helps.

Ok, i'm trying some things with passing now.

If you're talking about a control tactic, then do you mean a tactic which you use in the last 15 minutes to grab a late goal, or do you use it to put a lot of pressure on very defensive teams?

Edit: Another question, i'm not sure about when I should pick my Balanced tactic and when the Attacking tactic.

Should I just pick the attacking one against every team weaker than me? I have already tried some things..

Played against Everton:

1. I first tryed playing with my balanced tactic, after coming down 1-0 I changed to Attacking in the second half. I scored 2 times but had some bad luck so the final score was 2-2.

2. I tryed to play with the Attacking tactic... Started very bad: 1-0. Then I created a few changes and scored 2. Everton was lucky again so it ended 2-2. But I was more happy with this match as I created more chances.

3. Played with defensive, very boring match and drew 0-0. Only a few shots and no CCC's. So not a big succes at all.

After this little experiment, I drew 1-1 at home against Roma (again a bit unlucky) and won 4-2 at home against Chelsea. I used the balanced tactic in both these matches and played quite well.

Created 8 CCC's against Chelsea and they had 2 red cards. 2 of my goals were from penalty's, but this match could have ended in 7-2 actually.

I'm still not sure about chosing tactics...

For example, when I play at home against Shakhtar Donetsk, would you chose the balanced tactic or the attacking one?

[crouchaldinho]

Ok, i'm trying some things with passing now.

If you're talking about a control tactic, then do you mean a tactic which you use in the last 15 minutes to grab a late goal, or do you use it to put a lot of pressure on very defensive teams?

Control is a patient and probing attacking approach, where you aim to open up space and carefully craft chances against a side that has everyone behind the ball. See 'general tips' in the opening post for more information.

Edit: Another question, i'm not sure about when I should pick my Balanced tactic and when the Attacking tactic.

Should I just pick the attacking one against every team weaker than me? I have already tried some things..

I generally pick my approach based upon how the opposition are set up.

You could pick an attacking tactic when playing against a weaker team. Personally, I am a naturally cautious manager and I am far more likely to try to stop the opposition in their game plan.

I'm still not sure about chosing tactics...

For example, when I play at home against Shakhtar Donetsk, would you chose the balanced tactic or the attacking one?

Like I say above, my approach would be based upon the way the opposition are setting up. Have a read of the 'general tips' in the opening post.

C.

[Jay1992]

What does it mean when it says "The one’s you really need to worry about here are Tempo, Width, Time Wasting and Defensive Line"? Because it doesn't mention what to set them as. If we have to do it ourself, what do you recommend?

[crouchaldinho]

What does it mean when it says "The one’s you really need to worry about here are Tempo, Width, Time Wasting and Defensive Line"? Because it doesn't mention what to set them as. If we have to do it ourself, what do you recommend?

Jay1992 - if you have a closer read of the opening post, you'll see that I tell you my recommended settings.

Basically, it goes something like this: Balanced - everything in the middle (i.e. normal), Attacking - link tempo to passing, width wide, time wasting low, defensive line linked to mentality, Defensive - link tempo to passing, width narrow, time wasting high, defensive line linked to mentality.

Have a another read of the post and you'll see that I've made firm suggestions for each of them.

[Jay1992]

Jay1992 - if you have a closer read of the opening post, you'll see that I tell you my recommended settings.

Basically, it goes something like this: Balanced - everything in the middle (i.e. normal), Attacking - link tempo to passing, width wide, time wasting low, defensive line linked to mentality, Defensive - link tempo to passing, width narrow, time wasting high, defensive line linked to mentality.

Have a another read of the post and you'll see that I've made firm suggestions for each of them.

Oh thanks mate, I'll have another read. Good post!

[triggerusawales]

hello,

great Post ... but I need major help.

I started as Newcastle in season 1 and made the sets above. Bought and sold some players team looks like this

Given

Beye, Taylor Collochini, Rat

Jonas, MCd Butt, MCa Alex Buunonette

Fcd Owen/Fca Lavenni (martins is always poor morale or away on Int)

After six games I am 13th won 2, draw 1 lost 3

Bolton - w 1-0 a

Man city d 1-1 h

chesterfield 2-0

Man utd a 3-0 l

Arsenal h 2-1 l

Spurs a 1-0 w

Liverpool cup lost 1-0

villa lot h 5-2

I used balanced against all of these except villa and chester

1/ Villa had very fast strikers and the ball behind killed the high pushed up DL. so I dropped to normal, then came the other 4 goals.

the goals seem to be mids passing the ball to striker...striker turning DC or the DC missing interception (happens alot).

2 - Against iverpool throughballs kept getting passed the defence and they had a few good shots saved by given. Passes just seemd to cut through the middle.

3 - United just destroyed the balanced. Normal def line and rooney just kept running onto pass beyond Dl ine and scoring...I lowered the dline by two, no impact.

4 - I dont seem to create alot, but have a few one on ones which Lavenni normally hits at the keeper.

5 - jonas/ left winger get to byline and hit defender all the time and I get corners....

6 - I was losing the ball alot because given would just boot away to small strikers...I given him pass to RAT short now.

7 - Once and only one I did get Assistant message mids and st too far apart (I checked the Ment and they are set as instructed...

goals for 10 (1.3) against 13 (1.6)

so the main concern is constant defence splitting passes, missed interceptions...missed one on ones, lack of creation...

oh Alex is getting an orange for the MCa?? I have Jiri Jarosak....I dont have very good average rating either.....

I know this is me, my tem choices etc but I think i'll be sacked soon...HELP

[crouchaldinho]

After six games I am 13th won 2, draw 1 lost 3

Bolton - w 1-0 a

Man city d 1-1 h

chesterfield 2-0

Man utd a 3-0 l

Arsenal h 2-1 l

Spurs a 1-0 w

Liverpool cup lost 1-0

villa lot h 5-2

I'd say that's not terrifically bad going considering three of your losses were against Manchester United away, Arsenal and Liverpool. The Aston Villa result, I will get to in a minute.

Few other questions first. What is the general standard of your squad? Where are you expected to finish in the league? What is your team gelling?

Also, are you taking note of the scout reports?

I used balanced against all of these except villa and chester

1/ Villa had very fast strikers and the ball behind killed the high pushed up DL. so I dropped to normal, then came the other 4 goals.

the goals seem to be mids passing the ball to striker...striker turning DC or the DC missing interception (happens alot).

Dropping the defensive line to normal was the major error here.

My advice would be to either a) play quicker defenders and/or b) ensure that your defenders aren't up against strikers that have a huge advantage in terms of pace.

If your defenders are all very slow then consider dipping into the transfer market.

Alternatively, you could reduce the defensive line by a few notches, but also do the same with the mentality.

What happened when you reduced the defensive line was that your midfield and defence were operating on different agendas and Villa were able to play in the space between them. Ultimately, they kept the ball in front of your back four and has space and time to fashion out chances. That's why mentality and defensive line should be linked. Have another read through the opening post about this.

2 - Against iverpool throughballs kept getting passed the defence and they had a few good shots saved by given. Passes just seemd to cut through the middle.

Was this home or away? What was Liverpool's approach to the game?

Don't take this the wrong way but there is no shame in a 1-0 loss against Liverpool when you are Newcastle, probably with a ungelled team that has only played a handful of games.

3 - United just destroyed the balanced. Normal def line and rooney just kept running onto pass beyond Dl ine and scoring...I lowered the dline by two, no impact.

What was Man Utd's approach according to your scout?

Couple of other important points - was your whole starting eleven match fit and in good condition?

Did they react well to your team talk?

6 - I was losing the ball alot because given would just boot away to small strikers...I given him pass to RAT short now.

Sounds like a good plan.

7 - Once and only one I did get Assistant message mids and st too far apart (I checked the Ment and they are set as instructed...

Not sure about this. I never get any such message and I play with the mentalities exactly as in the opening post. Maybe double-check your striker settings.

goals for 10 (1.3) against 13 (1.6)

Put it into context though. You've played four of the best sides in the Premier League and lost, which isn't totally beyond the realms of possibility in real life.

Give the team time to settle etc. and I believe you'll start to do better. Don't tweak too much during games and try to have some faith in your setup.

The wins away from home at Bolton and Spurs seem to be a pretty good indication that you are on the right lines to me.

C.

[salkster2102]

I'll second the given time bit. I finished 11th in league two after two succesive promotions with plenty of deadwood in that squad. I used the attack tactic for most of the season as the other teams played defensively. The only problem I really have is that teams play on the counter a lot.

[triggerusawales]

thanks for the reply.

1 - I guess the problem is that my defence are not the quickest. Taylor and Colochini. I wont look to mess with the Attacking dline then. I will just have to have faith in the push up. Can you suggest any quick, cheap defenders??

2 - Ive followed all the scout reports but they all just seem to play a 4-4-2....no attacking or defending. I guessed that just meas they play balanced. If they play focussed I assume you play focussed or attacking, if they are attacking do you go defensive...

sorry, against Utd at old trafford I tried to play defensive, so I did have a deep line anyway>>> dont know what happened there then.

3 - As for team gelling..some are having difficulty communicating...I did buy six new players.

4 - I dont ever get anything positive from my assistant...keeps saying,

Rat is getting slaughted

Taylor keeps giving the ball away

we are giving the ball away

hes not very positive

I would say overall its going well, just wondered if I had really missed something the way teams cut through me.....I did outplay arsenal.

so

a/ even if they have quick strikers..dont change the Dline....

[crouchaldinho]

thanks for the reply.

1 - I guess the problem is that my defence are not the quickest. Taylor and Colochini. I wont look to mess with the Attacking dline then. I will just have to have faith in the push up. Can you suggest any quick, cheap defenders??

I'm afraid not. I play in non-League, so I can recommend a few for that level, but it won't help you!

2 - Ive followed all the scout reports but they all just seem to play a 4-4-2....no attacking or defending. I guessed that just meas they play balanced. If they play defensive I assume you play attacking, if they are attacking you go defensive...

sorry, against Utd at old trafford I tried to play defensive, so I did have a deep line anyway>>> dont know what happened there then.

Deep line and defensive mentality is fine. Nothing to worry about there.

What that tells me is that Man Utd were attacking you and therefore you tried to play defensive, which is the right choice. Just so happens that your team are probably not gelled, perhaps not fully fit, maybe not settled into the tactic yet. Perhaps the team talk also didn't go down well in this game. However, this game was always going to be a case of targeting a draw and probably getting beat. Give it some time for the squad to gel etc. and you'll turn these kinds of games into draws and possibly, with improvements to the team too, wins.

3 - As for team gelling..some are having difficulty communicating...I did buy six new players.

Yes. Big factor. Might take 10-15 games for them to settle. Keep things consistent during this period and try to encourage the team. Don't expect miracles. Let the team settle and then you will notice a big increase in the consistency of performances.

I would say overall its going well, just wondered if I had really missed something the way teams cut through me.....I did outplay arsenal.

Your opening post made it sound like a total disaster and now you told me you OUTPLAYED ARSENAL!

Sounds like you were unlucky in that game. Like I say, give it a few more months and more consistency will come.

a/ even if they have quick strikers..dont change the Dline....

You can change the defensive line but look to drop mentality slightly as well. Personally, I just prefer to play quicker defenders and try to deal with their quickest forward with my quickest centre-back.

What are your targets for this season? Where are you predicted to finish?

My idea would be to aim to finish above your predicted position. Then I would look to strengthen in key positions in the summer, especially in defence if you are weak there. Then go out all guns blazing the next season and aim to go even higher.

[123hello]

what about the settings like us playmaker and target-ma, offside trap, D-line and width

[triggerusawales]

I am predicted as 13th....Ive had a bad run of big games...next game is Chelsea hahaha.

I normally change my tactic weekly (in previous versions) and if I dont win the league with Newcastle, I get bored and give up...not this time im sticking with it...

i'll let you know how I get on

[crouchaldinho]

what about the settings like us playmaker and target-ma,

Up to you if you want to use them. If you have the right kind of quality players then this can be very effective.

I tend to keep things simple, though, and not bother. Mostly through laziness.

offside trap, D-line and width

All covered in the opening post.

[crouchaldinho]

I am predicted as 13th....Ive had a bad run of big games...next game is Chelsea hahaha.

I normally change my tactic weekly (in previous versions) and if I dont win the league with Newcastle, I get bored and give up...not this time im sticking with it...

i'll let you know how I get on

Well, I wish you the best of luck.

Suggest you aim for top half this season, then look to get into Europe the season after. Following that, you might well be in a good position to challenge if you make some good signings and strengthen the team in key areas.

Keep us updated.

[123hello]

just tried your guide and It seemed clear and sensible. I created a 4-4-2 attacking and normal and defence. They didn't work, mainly because I think i did the guide wrong.

was wondering if you could create the 3 tactics and publish them????

[crouchaldinho]

just tried your guide and It seemed clear and sensible. I created a 4-4-2 attacking and normal and defence. They didn't work, mainly because I think i did the guide wrong.

was wondering if you could create the 3 tactics and publish them????

As I said before, I won't be doing that because I've tried to make this thread simple enough for people to set up themselves. I'm trying to get people enjoying the tactical side of the game and not just downloading tactics and/or getting frustrated because they can't understand some of the basics in the game. I think it is more enjoyable to create a tactic yourself and it doesn't have to be perfect but just has to get the essential things right to give a good foundation.

Which bits are you struggling with setting up? I would be happy to go through them with you if you want?

[salkster2102]

is no one else using these tactics? I for one think they are really good although i only really use the attack tactic or the all out attack/shut up shot to score a goal/defend a lead. i've beaten sides two leagues above me with this set and at the moment i'm hitting some really good form. the defensive side is very good just conceding 2 goals in 7 games! i think it is down to a 35 year old defender i bought who has steadied the ship perfectly.

[triggerusawales]

Just a few more questions....

1 - My attackers go through on goal, Robinho and Martins and there is a player open in the box, rather than pass accross the box to the open player, they shoot from a stupid angle how can I stop this>>

2 - Are Robinho and Martins a good partnership for these tactics?? they dont seem able to hold the ball up front

3 - I just beat Wigan 2-1 but looking at my passing im giving the ball away too much...my mcd p35 completed 18, this was similar throughout

4 - Ive seen a few times a simple through pass, striker got beyond Dunne and he just stopped?? wtf

[crouchaldinho]

is no one else using these tactics? I for one think they are really good although i only really use the attack tactic or the all out attack/shut up shot to score a goal/defend a lead. i've beaten sides two leagues above me with this set and at the moment i'm hitting some really good form. the defensive side is very good just conceding 2 goals in 7 games! i think it is down to a 35 year old defender i bought who has steadied the ship perfectly.

Excellent stuff Salkster - good to hear you are having some success.

1 - My attackers go through on goal, Robinho and Martins and there is a player open in the box, rather than pass accross the box to the open player, they shoot from a stupid angle how can I stop this>>

My guess would be that it isn't anything tactical.

Just poor decision-making, team work, anticipation maybe? Perhaps they weren't well motivated before the game? Lack of team gelling?

2 - Are Robinho and Martins a good partnership for these tactics?? they dont seem able to hold the ball up front

You want a more creative and stronger player in the deeper role and a quicker out-and-out goalscorer in the other ideally. Well, that is my preference. Only you can tell if they are ideally suited. Look at their attributes and try to think about how you want them to play.

3 - I just beat Wigan 2-1 but looking at my passing im giving the ball away too much...my mcd p35 completed 18, this was similar throughout

Not sure about this one. Hard to tell without knowing the kind of tactic you were using and what the motivation was like. Were Wigan winning a lot of the ball in the air? It might be that you were playing too direct and playing into their hands, for instance. Also, what are the attributes like for your MCd, as perhaps he is just not a very good passer of the ball?

Also, this can happen with a poorly motivated side. Check assistant team-talk feedback.

4 - Ive seen a few times a simple through pass, striker got beyond Dunne and he just stopped?? wtf

Not sure about this as I haven't seen anything like it happen in my game.

It sounds, though, as if you have a poorly gelled squad to me. When the squad has not yet gelled, you often get a number of situations where a player just doesn't perform the duties that you have asked him to, or doesn't act as you would expect him to. Similar things happen with poorly motivated players too.

The clearest examples include things like your goalkeeper fluffing his lines when he comes to collect a ball and letting a player in behind him, or your defender being told to tightly mark a player and simply failing to track him etc. What is important is to try to ascertain whether or not it is a matter of gelling, of motivation or of poor tactics.

It appears that you are winning games though, so it is probably just the odd aberration that you are seeing, which is down to either a poorly motivated side or one that has failed to gel.

Keep an eye on the assistant screen and when it changes to 'good' gelling, you should start to see some considerable improvement.

C.

[triggerusawales]

thanks - - -

for the FCs - Martins is the quick goalscorer.....but I thought Robinho would be ideal behind striker...17 creativity, 17 passing but...he has 9 strength and 7 in the air....?? he is scoring for fun though and 17 in 24...

so you would suggest a stronger creative FCd....good i the air...the only one that jumps to my mind is Berbatov, or Tim Cahill?? Michael Owen Maybe...

Diarra has 16 for passing....

I watched the games more closely and I saw the fullbacks just kept booting it straight to the other full back who knocked it to there DMC abd they were off again....so I dropped my back four passing to mixed instead of direct....

Ive played 13 games in Prem, im in 1/4 of cup and still in Uefa so they must be gelled by now....im 10th in prem but I did notice teams are now going defensive against me and since changing the above passing.im winning more.

[triggerusawales]

I just dropped Robinho for one game against PSG and used Jo in the FCd position. Hes not very quick, 15 for heading, 15 for strength, 12 for creativity....

he popped up with two headers in the game won 3-0...is he gonna be a better choice

[mag man]

If you want to use Robinho I would try untick the HUB and give him a free role. I have played with him as the FCd before and he can do a good job there.

[crouchaldinho]

I just dropped Robinho for one game against PSG and used Jo in the FCd position. Hes not very quick, 15 for heading, 15 for strength, 12 for creativity....

he popped up with two headers in the game won 3-0...is he gonna be a better choice

Could be a good choice. He offers you something different to Robinho. You've got two different options there which you can use in different scenarios, i.e. up against different defences and in different systems.

If you want to use Robinho I would try untick the HUB and give him a free role. I have played with him as the FCd before and he can do a good job there.

Sound advice.

Could also benefit from mixed forward runs, I would guess.

I play FM in non-League and I also watch non-League in real life. Although I watch MoTD and love football generally at all levels, my knowledge of how the different Premier League players are rated in FM isn't so good. Therefore, I can't offer a lot of advice about setting your strikers up without looking on FM to see their attributes.

What I suggest you do is to look at the different strikers available to you and to think about what it would be best to ask them to do. You can't really go that far wrong if you keep it simple.

Also, you could check out this thread where Lyw_85 and I were chatting about different ways to set up your strikers: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=97235

Some good ideas there.

C.

[ubersandwich]

This is my first time playing Football Manager (well, in my case World Wide Soccer Manager) I wanted to chime in on how much I like these tactics. After starting many false start careers where i learned potent lessons (like, if you are playing a LL team, just because your board says you can spen 10k a week, doesn't mean you should ) I've become fairly good at the "front office" end of the game, team harmony, keeping payroll down EtC, while the tactical side left me a little overwhelmed. I found myself over-tweaking and over-thinking my match management.

I saw this post, and having a half dozen games left on a disappointing first season thought I would give them a try. The results were mixed, I did draw more than I lost and barely avoided relegation but, I saw that my team started playing like a soccer team even if they weren't winning instantly with these tactics. HOWEVER, during the second season my little Braintree squad started off on a 13 game unbeaten streak (suppose the tactics gelled by then) and not only wound up winning the playoff after finishing 4th to win promotion, against all odds, we won the FA Trophy in dramatic fashion.. penalty kicks in the final and scoring a injury time last minute goal in the semi to win the aggregate score after getting absolutely pummelled by York for 90+mins in the second game of the semi.

Now, I am midtable in the BSP and have a few questions as I look to personalize some tactics. I noticed in your descriptions about passing you noted creativity of the wings and the fullbacks, noting that yours were not creative nor great passers so you set the through balls and crossing respectively to few. The strongest talent on my team currently is in the back line and on the ends of my midfield, would you encourage perhaps upping these settings if the players look to have the talent to pull it off?

And secondly, I read in one of the tactics threads (I have read so many, they tend to blend together) about the positioning of the MCa and FCa. Should they be on the same side of the field, opposite sides from one another? Currently, my team is allowing few goals, but I am not creating goal opportunities and I wonder if it is because of my positioning. I have the MCa and FCd on the same side of the pitch, does that work or does it even matter?

Sorry for the book, just wanted to testify to the success of the tactic as well as thanking you for the theoretical explanations, now I am going a little deeper when I search for new players, looking for abilities that actually fit the position. Thank you

[crouchaldinho]

while the tactical side left me a little overwhelmed. I found myself over-tweaking and over-thinking my match management.

It's a common mistake that I have made in the past as well.

HOWEVER, during the second season my little Braintree squad started off on a 13 game unbeaten streak (suppose the tactics gelled by then) and not only wound up winning the playoff after finishing 4th to win promotion, against all odds, we won the FA Trophy in dramatic fashion..

That's truly excellent news!

Congratulations on your success!

I noticed in your descriptions about passing you noted creativity of the wings and the fullbacks, noting that yours were not creative nor great passers so you set the through balls and crossing respectively to few. The strongest talent on my team currently is in the back line and on the ends of my midfield, would you encourage perhaps upping these settings if the players look to have the talent to pull it off?

For the wingers, I would say yes, increase through-balls or crossing if you feel that they are good enough. I would tend to not ask my wingers to do too much, i.e. through-balls often and cross often, but maybe mixed of one and often of the other. Consider how this will have an effect on your forwards though, e.g. if crossing often, are they good in the air?

For the fullbacks, again, yes you could increase through-balls or crossing. However, the major thing would be to consider where they are on the pitch in the particular system you are playing, e.g. when defensive they aren't getting forward much and therefore through-balls might be dangerous and possibly pointless. For an attacking system, things are different as they will be getting forward often and in good positions to cross and/or play some through-balls.

And secondly, I read in one of the tactics threads (I have read so many, they tend to blend together) about the positioning of the MCa and FCa. Should they be on the same side of the field, opposite sides from one another? Currently, my team is allowing few goals, but I am not creating goal opportunities and I wonder if it is because of my positioning. I have the MCa and FCd on the same side of the pitch, does that work or does it even matter?

Personally, I don't think this makes any difference at all. I've had my MCa on the left and right, and my FCd on the right and the left! No difference as far as I could see. The players move around into different positions and offer themselves up for the ball. I tend to see my FCd come more centrally, and ditto my MCa, when they drop back or come forward respectively.

In terms of chances, perhaps the key here is to examine your strikers and look to see if they are able to gain an advantage over the opposition in a physical sense. Sometimes strikers who are slower or not so good in the air can struggle with their goal tally due to being physically intimidated by the opposition. I've noticed this in my current save where I have a new young striker who is scoring freely due to his pace, where others have not done so well..

Sorry for the book...

Not at all. I'm jolly well pleased you're having some success. I started the thread in the hope that it might help a few people and it is lovely to hear a few success stories now and then.

Cheers,

C.

[mag man]

Personally, I don't think this makes any difference at all. I've had my MCa on the left and right, and my FCd on the right and the left! No difference as far as I could see. The players move around into different positions and offer themselves up for the ball. I tend to see my FCd come more centrally, and ditto my MCa, when they drop back or come forward respectively.

Im always really anal about this, I have my MCa on the same side as FCa I think it allows my MCa, FCd and FCa to play diagonal balls to each other. At the moment having success with two FCa'ds and two MCd's with play focused down the wings.

[Finknottle]

crouchaldinho. I have made up your three tactics, hopefully, correctly. Surprise, surprise, I have a "stupid" question and I hope that it is not something that I have missed in your postings. When you say place player or team instruction on normal, do you mean the centre line [11] or central from the extreme left [10]? Thanks for your valued assistance, kind regards.

[geol13]

When will you be able to upload the tactic set pleeeeeeeeeeeeease

[crouchaldinho]

crouchaldinho. I have made up your three tactics, hopefully, correctly. Surprise, surprise, I have a "stupid" question and I hope that it is not something that I have missed in your postings. When you say place player or team instruction on normal, do you mean the centre line [11] or central from the extreme left [10]? Thanks for your valued assistance, kind regards.

I tend to work with the centre-line as my reference point.

My three references points are generally - five clicks up from the far left (defensive), five clicks down from the far right (attacking), in the middle (balanced).

It seems that the central line isn't actually the middle, which is FM getting all postmodern on us I would say! Our assumptions are challenged and undermined; one must question everything!

To be honest, it shouldn't make much difference whether you use 10 as your central point or the centre-line (11) as your base point. I just find it easier to use the middle line.

C.