Mr Sandman

Should newgens start younger/be toned down

36 posts in this topic

Hello all.

I play FM09 a hell of alot and one thing i have noticed in this version is just how powerful and early the newgens are. I believe i could write alot more in depth but for now i will just outline what i think is currently wrong with the way things are now.

If i take 5 examples of "hot prospects" IRL/ "-9's" in game and compare them with newgens nearly everytime the hotly touted newgens will easy crush the [B]REAL LIFE[/B] future superstars.

Within 2/3 seasons alot of teams will already have very high quality regens, an example here [url]http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z83/robothouse_2007/oses.png[/url]

I've had this player for one season now, he's 19 and joined the game in 2009. He completely outshines his real life equivalent "Nicolas Millian" who doesn't look like he's going to sign for an european based side anytime soon, in fact he may never make it as a pro (i havent checked is his PA 150 or any number up too 180)..However my point stands that by 2 seasons the newgens completely dominate real life touted players. Another example would be Blackburn who have a 20 year old turkish wonderkid, who again outshines Batuhan (turkeys hottest striking prospect)

In my humble opinion it is somewhat destructive and unrealistic to have "fake players" come in at 18 and be better than real life 18 year old prospects. Here and there someone will come out of the blue aged 20 but more often or not we have heard about them since a very young age.

I believe if all regens came in aged 14-16 it would make this problem go away, they would develop a bit later and won't destroy all the prospects of some of todays real life future superstars.

I hope I have made my point in a correct manner, enough to earn respectable responses.

I feel my idea would add authenticity to the hard work of the researchers

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While I admit that it may be a bit unrealistic, I must say that I love the amount of quality regens in FM09. The useless regens in FM08 ruined long term saves for me, so personally I'd rather see things stay he same just incase things go to another extreme again.

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i love the new regens
i find it much more fun

now we can do wenger's

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my idea is not too tone them down but for [B]all[/B] of them to start at age 14-16

it spoils alot of authenticity for a player to be world class starting aged 19 in the save. I have no problem how good they are, just i think they dominate alot of real life youngsters by season 2/3.

If a player has a PA of 195 he shouldnt start his pro career aged 19 and then dominate players touted IRL

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Last year the regens were no good, this year they are too good. :D
I much prefer this years over last, which ruined any long-term game (as ahmufcwafc has said). I recently had a Liverpool game into 2020 and had a really good quality team made almost exclusively of regens; this wasn't possible on FM08.
I say keep it as is :thup:

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[quote name='Mr Sandman']my idea is not too tone them down but for [B]all[/B] of them to start at age 14-16

it spoils alot of authenticity for a player to be world class starting aged 19 in the save. I have no problem how good they are, just i think they dominate alot of real life youngsters by season 2/3.

If a player has a PA of 195 he shouldnt start his pro career aged 19 and then dominate players touted IRL[/quote]

Ah, I see where you're coming from now. I'm all for your idea as long as its implimented in a way that doesn't mess up the whole regen system, which wouldn't be too hard I would imagine :thup:

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weeaja you've not understood what im saying. im not asking for them too be toned down but too enter the game younger so they don't interfere with real life players development

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The main problem here is that they all look so good because they are all one footed. I don't think there is a problem with the starting CA or PA here but the one footedness is a big problem.

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[quote name='Mr Sandman']weeaja you've not understood what im saying. im not asking for them too be toned down but too enter the game younger so they don't interfere with real life players development[/QUOTE]

Gotcha :thup:
That is a good idea, tbf. 14yr old kids in the academy who take years to even show they MIGHT have what it takes, rather than late-teens coming in who are obviously bound for the big time. :)

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The problem is the lack of two-footedness. Only being able to perform with one foot means they receive considerable stat boosts which RUIN the game.

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I feel that the regens/newgens are way too good compared to real life and in FM08. I've seen a 16 year old new in the game on a free transfer and somehow got a CA of 150 and PA of 187 and signed straight for Real Madrid on £40k a week ! But yes I agree that they should come into the game at a earlier age

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[quote name='deniro80']I feel that the regens/newgens are way too good compared to real life and in FM08. I've seen a 16 year old new in the game on a free transfer and somehow got a CA of 150 and PA of 187 and signed straight for Real Madrid on £40k a week ! But yes I agree that they should come into the game at a earlier age[/QUOTE]

In all fairness though, that does happen.

Look at someone like Rooney, or Milner in the English league, or Bojan Krkic or Sergio Aguero playing in Spain. Some players are that good that young.

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What's all this one-footed stats boost nonsense?

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I had a thought about what Messi's CA would have been at 15-16 - I actually suspect it would be around 130-140 - develop at Newells, perhaps to 160 at 17-18 - move to Barcelona, after one season, perhaps 170-180 until now, 190+.

For that reason, I don't think there should be any sudden wonderkid regends. If required, generate them with age 14 with CAs 2-3 years ahead of their age groups, such as 14-year-olds with CA 90-100 (which is very good for their age) or 15-year-olds with CA 100-120 or something.

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[quote name='Paul_B']What's all this one-footed stats boost nonsense?[/QUOTE]
Roughly, a pure two-footed player performs just as well as a pure one-footed player with a CA level of 20-30 points higher.

Of course, this makes it very hard to find two-footed players to see how good they are, as some have (what appears to be) poor attributes. Adding 1-2 points to all their attributes will give you a "one-footed" picture for comparison.

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As long as there´s a bunch of 16 years old players in the national U-19:s and U-21:s in 2009 SI need to keep tweaking the CA:s and CR:s of the newgens.

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[quote name='x42bn6']Roughly, a pure two-footed player performs just as well as a pure one-footed player with a CA level of 20-30 points higher.

Of course, this makes it very hard to find two-footed players to see how good they are, as some have (what appears to be) poor attributes. Adding 1-2 points to all their attributes will give you a "one-footed" picture for comparison.[/QUOTE]

Which one of them performs at which one's level of 20-30 points higher? If it's the way you wrote it, then that means that a 150-level two-footed player performs as well as a one-footed player with 170-180-level. Which might make sense, because they can do the same thing no matter which side the ball is on (making them a much more effective player). So are you saying that, or the opposite?

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Scenario:

Two players created in the editor exactly the same CA, PA Attributes etc. (one footed)

Make one player two footed and see what happens.

He has a reduction of (sometimes) 2 stats across the board

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i like it, they always used to be rubbs, now they're good

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I fully agree, the regens are crazy this year! I made a similar comment on the wonderkids thread. With the regens as they are, there is practically no point wasting transfer funds on the Saivets, Galvans and Oscars of the game that would take a lot of match experience and training to build up. It devalues the RL players on the database to have such freakishly good regens. Is it that difficult to make regens mirror RL players attributes ? Maybe a combination of making them start younger and fixing their one-footedness would solve the problem.

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Please no!!!
The newgens are the main reason I keep playing my first save still.
There are a decent amount of +5 star potential players, but I don't see it as there are to many compared to reality imo.

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Please do not change the regens. The regens in FM2009 are helping to make the game much more enjoyable for me.

I have bought a lot of regens and given them match experience and improved them significantly. I do find their loyalty does tend to suck a bit and all of them are tempted by offers from elsewhere so it's hard to keep them, but that's part of the challenge.

The problem is if all the top clubs become experts at picking up all of the talent, it will be near impossible to break the monopolies and it's hard enough now.

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You guys like having one footed demi god 18-20 yr old regens that have massively inflated transfer fees due to their too high CA ? Adjustments in this area, and the way AI teams sign talent for 9.0.3 please SI.

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In terms of age/ability the FM07 system was largly successfull, however the regens in 07 had some very bizarre attribute spreads

Until SI implemement a proportional distribution method on attributes for regens they are always going to get it wrong in someway.

From a cynical veiwpoint it's easy to believe SI don't want to give the playerbase a longterm game as a viable option as they make thier money off annual releases.

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It is a gamebreaker for me, and resulted in FM being uninstalled, and heading for the coaster pile unless SI decide it is an issue. Elite prospects are so numerous you can't move without falling over a new Maradonna or Platini. By the fifth or sixth season you shouldn't have a real player in your squad, and you'll be sweeping up the trophies without any effort at all given the AI managers judge players on reputation alone so very rarely pursue – or even try to keep their own – top youngsters.

I don't get how anyone can be happy with it this year. At least when the generated players were overly poor every club was in the same boat and you had to work to keep a decent squad. Now you can find ten Messi's every season, and only you will try to sign them 99% of the time.

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Still, I rather have too good than too bad newgens. If SI fix this and it will be like in FM 08 again, it would be worse. Something to be tuned slightly in FM 2010. It's great to develop and find talented youth.

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I agree with what seems the consensus on here; there are a few too many excellent new-gens, but I prefer this situation to last years. On FM08 you had rubbish regens, and as a result all clubs holding on to starting players for years and years. Now it seems that there are good regens, but clubs still holding on to starting players. I'm in 2013 at the moment; I'm interested to see if the AI adjusts to picking up (and keeping) good players once they have run out of original players in their squads.

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Like the OP said there should be an adjustment in the age that these talented newgens begin as. I've gone out of my way reading through the good player guides, scouting the footballing world in my first season only to end up getting much better newgen players on frees the following season.

It completely devalues real life youngsters so yes the age not the quality of these newgens needs to be toned down and hopefully will be for the next patch.

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i wish i had decent regens all mine so far seem to be duff :( only one looks like he may make it into my team in 4 seasons

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[quote name='deejay10']You guys like having one footed demi god 18-20 yr old regens that have massively inflated transfer fees due to their too high CA ? Adjustments in this area, and the way AI teams sign talent for 9.0.3 please SI.[/QUOTE]

All AI regarding talent seems to be in a need of a major tweaking. The AI-controlled clubs need to understand the value of a talented player, they need to fill their youth-teams with other players than regens, and they must not free transfer a talented player.

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[quote name='Long Schlong']Scenario:

Two players created in the editor exactly the same CA, PA Attributes etc. (one footed)

Make one player two footed and see what happens.

He has a reduction of (sometimes) 2 stats across the board[/QUOTE]

[quote name='deejay10']You guys like having one footed demi god 18-20 yr old regens that have massively inflated transfer fees due to their too high CA ? Adjustments in this area, and the way AI teams sign talent for 9.0.3 please SI.[/QUOTE]

With these ferrero roche (quotes), you guys are really spoiling (confusing the hell out of) me.

First, someone says a two-footed played with a lower CA (say 150 compared to a one-footed 170-180 player) will play better than he should because of that.

Then Long Schlong tries to make it simple, telling me that the two-footed player has all his stats reduced. I assume he means attributes, rather than his CA, so this would seem to be a different thing (maybe the attribute lowering is simply due to this lower CA, but he specifically said if you put the SAME current ability on both players in the editor). Regardless, does that mean that he performs worse overall - due to this lowering of his attributes - or does he make up for it by being able to perform all of his skills equally well no matter what foot he uses?

Finally, deejay10 makes a comment that the one-footed players are in fact "demi god"s. Presumably, he means they are MUCH better than their two-footed equivalents. Does this mean that a 180 CA one-footed player (not what he was in the editor, but now actually playing in the middle of a saved game) is a better player than his comparitive 180 CA two-footed player?

I am so confused...

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[quote name='kevinep']Please do not change the regens. The regens in FM2009 are helping to make the game much more enjoyable for me.
[/quote]
And they've completely ruined the chances of me trying another long term game. There are way too many players with loads of potential. I don't mind players coming in with quality, but they shouldn't necessarily improve so much.

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Short answer: NO!

Long answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only thing that really needs to be changed is the issue where almost every last one of the buggers has one foot.

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[quote name='Some Guy!']
Finally, deejay10 makes a comment that the one-footed players are in fact "demi god"s. Presumably, he means they are MUCH better than their two-footed equivalents. Does this mean that a 180 CA one-footed player (not what he was in the editor, but now actually playing in the middle of a saved game) is a better player than his comparitive 180 CA two-footed player?

I am so confused...[/QUOTE]

No - the 180CA one-footed player will have slightly higher attributes than the 180CA two-footed player, but the latter will perform just as well in the match engine because of his two-footedness (for logical reasons.. being able to pass/cross/dribble/shoot with both feet gives a player more options, etc). The weaker foot score is treated as an attribute, effectively, and eats up some of the CA score that's shared between each area - but that's because, like the other attributes, it has an effect on the match engine.

So if you're looking at two players in the game and they have the same attributes, the one with the stronger 'second foot' will almost certainly have a higher CA.

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