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Connor

SI - Tell me what to do, should I start a new career game on FM08 or wait for patch

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I wonder if anyone from SI could give me there honest opinion as to whether I should start a new lower league game on FM 08 with Bishops Stortford in the conference south, or should I wait for the next patch to come out.

I was a little conceerned by one thing I had come across, but didnt know if it was a bug or new contract rulings etc.

I wonder if you could clarify, it appears that when trying to release a youth contract player on a free I had to pay compensation. Now previously on FM07 I could just release them for nothing.

Could someone from SI then please clarify if releasing players on youth contracts, should or shouldnt have to paid compensation. If they should then obviously its not a bug, but if they shouldnt and is indeed a bug - Is it going to be fixed on upcoming patch?

If so, would be best to wait i suppose for the patch to start my FM08 career.

Many thanks

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I wonder if anyone from SI could give me there honest opinion as to whether I should start a new lower league game on FM 08 with Bishops Stortford in the conference south, or should I wait for the next patch to come out.

I was a little conceerned by one thing I had come across, but didnt know if it was a bug or new contract rulings etc.

I wonder if you could clarify, it appears that when trying to release a youth contract player on a free I had to pay compensation. Now previously on FM07 I could just release them for nothing.

Could someone from SI then please clarify if releasing players on youth contracts, should or shouldnt have to paid compensation. If they should then obviously its not a bug, but if they shouldnt and is indeed a bug - Is it going to be fixed on upcoming patch?

If so, would be best to wait i suppose for the patch to start my FM08 career.

Many thanks

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Sorry forgot to mention, that the reason I would like clarification is that, if having to release a youth contract player with paying compensation is a bug and will be fixed by the patch - Then I would rather wait for the patch as not paying compensation to such players, makes thngs significantly easier at conference south level.

However understand if its new to FM08 and is not a bug, just would appreciate clarification

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Why do you need SI to tell you something that is basically a matter of personal preference? If a new patch comes out with the fixes you're looking for, you can start a new career game then whether you start one now or not.

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Gunnerfan, - the reason is if i know if its a bug or not - I can then make a decision whether to start a long term career game or not.

I put a lot of effort into my career game, so wouldnt be worth starting a new game if indeed the issue is a bug and will be fixed on the upcoming patch

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Speaking of patches, can we expect a new Fm2008 patch soon or are we gonna have to wait for fm2009? An official response from an SI employee would be greatly appreciated.

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please could we keep this on top as I am not interested in when the patchis coming out, but just want clarification on the issue I raised, in my original two posts.

Many thanks

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tormentor:

Speaking of patches, can we expect a new Fm2008 patch soon or are we gonna have to wait for fm2009? An official response from an SI employee would be greatly appreciated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If we have to wait untill 09, i demand i get it for free.

They should inform us more about how the patch development is doing, and what we can expect.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tormentor:

Speaking of patches, can we expect a new Fm2008 patch soon or are we gonna have to wait for fm2009? An official response from an SI employee would be greatly appreciated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They already have said it. I'm sorry I don't remember in which thread it is, and perhaps they should announce it and make a sticky thread for it. But rest assured, they have. Expect it around mid-Februrary, if all goes well. TBH, I wouldn't mind waiting a bit more if it's going to be even better than if rushed.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Connor:

Gunnerfan, - the reason is if i know if its a bug or not - I can then make a decision whether to start a long term career game or not.

I put a lot of effort into my career game, so wouldnt be worth starting a new game if indeed the issue is a bug and will be fixed on the upcoming patch </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, Connor, but they have said that there will be a patch, and if you check through the Bugs forum, you can see if this has been identified as a bug. But even if it is, I can't see it as something that makes the game unplayable, and if the game is playable, why not play it, assuming it's simply a new contract rule?

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I have taken a look through the bugs forum and to be honest it is less than clear whether SI have confirmed this is a bug for two separate reasons:

1) SI informed a poster that they would take a look at it, before the previous patch

2) On release of the previous patch the issue was not fixed.

Therefore I am left to make an assumption as to whether this is a bug or not, I would like clarification as I have already eluded to the fcat that I would like to start a career game

Many thanks

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gunnerfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Connor:

Gunnerfan, - the reason is if i know if its a bug or not - I can then make a decision whether to start a long term career game or not.

I put a lot of effort into my career game, so wouldnt be worth starting a new game if indeed the issue is a bug and will be fixed on the upcoming patch </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, Connor, but they have said that there will be a patch, and if you check through the Bugs forum, you can see if this has been identified as a bug. But even if it is, I can't see it as something that makes the game unplayable, and if the game is playable, why not play it, assuming it's simply a new contract rule? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its a huge issue for lower league.

If you have a wage budget of 2,000 pw and are spending 100 or 200 on youth contracts, it can serverely restrict your squad.

By the same, if you have to pay 1,000 in compensation for every youth player when you only have 10,000 in the bank and no transfer budget, then again it is a huge problem.

Trouble is, most people only consider it based upon a big club, where losing a few thousand on compensation means nothing.

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Thats also my point Nick A, would be good to have it clarified if this is going to be fixed for the patch

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It’s not completely a bug.

I don’t know about legal affairs in all countries but in my country (and I assume in most European ones) you have to pay the remaining salary when cancelling a contract.

So accept it.

What can be considered as a bug, but which is more a different view on functionality is the fact that you are forced to accept the youngsters which are found every year. If they are good, useful or not, you just have to sign them automatically. IMHO, that’s not fair.

Back to the FM reality, if you like it or not, it’s in the game *now*, so how to handle this animal?

First, check if there’s someone useful in your youth squad.

If not:

• Sell him

• Or give him away for free

• And if that doesn’t work: fire him!

You have to pay his salary anyway. If he’s staying with you or you release him, in the end the balance will be the same. But by releasing him…

• Your overall monthly salary expenditure will go down, which is making room for fresh players

• Your board will be happy when your salary expenses are below the salary budget.

This approach is the same for your B-team players with one advantage more: If they are released then they can’t moan anymore about playing time and thus not interfering your A squad.

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99% sure, that it isn't a bug.

What you do at this level is, that you offer them (your youngsters) Amateur contracts, when they become old enough. Amateurs can then be released without compensation later on.

So if this is your only issue with the current patch, there's no need to delay your game.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eXistenZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tormentor:

Speaking of patches, can we expect a new Fm2008 patch soon or are we gonna have to wait for fm2009? An official response from an SI employee would be greatly appreciated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If we have to wait untill 09, i demand i get it for free.

They should inform us more about how the patch development is doing, and what we can expect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why should you get it for free? They don't have to produce a patch and would you ring up your council every day for an up to the minute detailed account on how every road closure in the town was going? I don't think so, just let them get on with it and then they can spend more time sorting things out!

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eXistenZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tormentor:

Speaking of patches, can we expect a new Fm2008 patch soon or are we gonna have to wait for fm2009? An official response from an SI employee would be greatly appreciated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If we have to wait untill 09, i demand i get it for free.

They should inform us more about how the patch development is doing, and what we can expect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If all software houses have to release their next version for free because the current one is containing bugs then...

...the business will collapse and soon there is no commercial software anymore.

You will be forced to use ‘open source’ stuff that really (yes, really!) will work in the next version…

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Could someone from SI therefore confirm if having to release youth contract players with compensation, is not a bug?

I need clarification from SI, as in the bugs forum people have raised this and SI have said they will look into.

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I also wonder when Si will release their patch if there is any?...and i also wonder if there is any Data Update in it.

Im in a mood to start a new save game...so i dont need a date but for example..within 1 week, 2 weeks? 1 monthh....when about do you guess it willl come out.

Thanks in advance

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eXistenZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tormentor:

Speaking of patches, can we expect a new Fm2008 patch soon or are we gonna have to wait for fm2009? An official response from an SI employee would be greatly appreciated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If we have to wait untill 09, i demand i get it for free.

They should inform us more about how the patch development is doing, and what we can expect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are numerous threads throughout the forums in which people say that it will be February some time, this includes a few responses from SI employees.

So many people start these bloomin threads asking about release dates and moaning about lack of information but don't bother their backsides to check.

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Nomis07 this thread was not opened for the purpose of finding out a release date for the forthcoming post, but to get clarification on whether an issue SI have said was being looked into, is in fact a bug or not.

I can then make a decison if it is going to be fixed in the forthcoming patch to wait.

Unfortunately the thread has been hijacked and people are asking about release dates for the patch.

I would like this topic to be kept on-topic regarding my issue

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It's not a bug.

UK law is working similar as Belgium law on this issue.

There are, in big lines, two types of contracts:

• With a undefined duration

• With a fixed duration.

While IRL undefined duration contracts could be used for football players, it’s not a common approach. Mostly a contract with a fixed duration is used.

So I will not deal about the undefined duration contracts because their exit rules are entirely different.

In FM all football player contracts are with a fixed duration anyway.

If one of the parties wants to cancel the contract, all they have to do is paying out the remaining salary.

This is the minimum legal start position of course.

A player can negotiate (and make it legal when it’s written down in the contract) that the club has to pay an extra compensation fee when it is releasing him before the end of the contract. Vice versa it’s not possible because it would fight the basic labour laws.

In Belgium there’s the law of 1978 which says that any labour contract with a fixed duration can be cancelled by the player if paid the remaining salary with a maximum of 9 months.

The club has always to pay out the remaining salary.

I’m sure you can find more about this issue on:

http://www.out-law.com/page-353

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Connor

Your topic is fine and dandy, it's not something that I have heard about but should require a response from SI.

I agree with you about the people who have hijacked as they have a majority of topics on this forum and apologise for any crossed wires as my previous post was aimed at them rather than yourself.

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Patrick.Bateman thanks for your help, but I require a response from SI as:

* they have previously said that are looking into this issue, but it has never been confirmed whether it is a bug or not.

* totally different to FM07, when you could release youth contract plaayers without having to pay compensation

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Connor:

Patrick.Bateman thanks for your help, but I require a response from SI as:

* they have previously said that are looking into this issue, but it has never been confirmed whether it is a bug or not.

* totally different to FM07, when you could release youth contract plaayers without having to pay compensation </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In FM07 it was fixed wrong.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Connor:

Thanks Patrick

Would be great if SI could confirm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They don't have to.

The basics of contract laws are rather similar in the entire European Community

In short: you can get rid of any contract as long as the “hurt†party is compensated with something.

Doesn't matter which type of contract we're talking about:

• a contract with your mobile provider

• the rent of your house

• a car rent or the rent

• a football player at your club...

Sure SI could put more detail in the contracts, but keep in mind it's still a game and games have to be fun and not feel like working.

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Just seems all very vague as SI said they were looking into and acknowledged the issue, but they have not come back as far as I can see on a search to explain???

As pointed out by a previous poster, the financial impact at a lower level appears to be financially crippling

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Patrick.Bateman, I guess Connor wants to be sure this will not be changed in the patch. Sure, it may be like this IRL, but if SI thinks managers shouldn't have to pay for releasing young players since the manager has no choice in academy youngsters, and the in-game behaviour isn't as expected, then they may want to change it in a patch.

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Vague???

I was assuming that I explained it very well, gave you clear examples AND an url.

It seems that you just don't like those laws icon_smile.gif

For the financial impact...

...I’m playing with Solihull Moors and I survive.

Try to free-loan as much players as possible.

Sell your unused players and fire the ones nobody wants.

Don’t forget that in the first year you have to cut the weed and sign the players you like. That are expensive operations you’ll do less in the next years (if your goals is staying in the league and making it profitable)

In the Conference Premier League it's easier to make your club profitable and still avoid relegation...

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Patrick

Would be interested to know how sustainable it is staying profitible is, if you dont get promoted from the Conference South and constantly have to take on youth contract players, without the option of being able to releasethem without compensation.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Connor:

Patrick

Would be interested to know how sustainable it is staying profitible is, if you dont get promoted from the Conference South and constantly have to take on youth contract players, without the option of being able to releasethem without compensation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You could always give the youth players a chance like alot of smaller clubs have to?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Connor:

Patrick

Would be interested to know how sustainable it is staying profitible is, if you dont get promoted from the Conference South and constantly have to take on youth contract players, without the option of being able to releasethem without compensation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fire them!

Look, most of them are real crap. You can find players who are 3 or 4 times better (and still crap) for free and ask a fair salary, so...

But again, check it out, in rare occasions, one of your youngsters isn't that crap at all.

You have 2 options:

• Keep them and pay their monthly salary

• Release them and pay out their contract.

In the long term you pay both times the same amount of money. But it’s better to fire them, I explained why in my formers posts.

You can make your team profitable even if you stay for years in the lowest league:

• Loan players for free

• Search for a satellite mother club (loan as much players as you’re allowed)

• Sign free players, but don’t pay too much salary

• Try to sign players with some potential (potential according Conference League standards), these one are potential money-makers.

• Fire most of your staff. 1 ass man, 1 scout & 1 psycho could do the trick

• In the summer season, do lots of friendly games against higher league teams. They bring in lots of cash. Usually I play about 10 matches. The last 4 matches against non-league teams, to raise the morale of my players again. Also make sure to have 22 players (secure each position). Just use every player for 45 minutes. They will not drop death and all players receive some experience…

You can do other stuff as well…

What I did in Solihull Moors was renegotiating the contracts of the players I liked…

Procedure:

1) offer him a new contract with a little less salary than his current contract

2) Do not pay any start money (you don’t have to, you never never have to, doesn’t matter which league/player/country…)

3) Remove the auto n% every year salary raise clausal.

4) If the player accepts the conditions, go back to #1 till your satisfied

5) If he doesn’t accept your new contract, lower the salary gap between what he wants and what you want to offer.

6) Do this for your complete squad.

Cheating? No, not really. Such stuff happens in reality as well, only a little smoother and faster.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Patrick.Bateman:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Connor:

Thanks Patrick

Would be great if SI could confirm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They don't have to.

The basics of contract laws are rather similar in the entire European Community

In short: you can get rid of any contract as long as the “hurt†party is compensated with something.

Doesn't matter which type of contract we're talking about:

• a contract with your mobile provider

• the rent of your house

• a car rent or the rent

• a football player at your club...

Sure SI could put more detail in the contracts, but keep in mind it's still a game and games have to be fun and not feel like working. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

TBH, I don't think this should be about contractual law.

The reason? These players (crap) are thrust upon us with no agreement from me the manager. They are often useless and there is no way that any club would sign them.

I think the youth players should all be on a non-contract basis with the onus on you to sign them if you think they are good enough.

That way you have the best of both worlds - a youth squad if you want one and the ability at LLM to trim your wage budget without creaming your finances.

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Patrick - I didnt mean your explanation was vague, just that SI have recognised it as an issue that is being looked into.

It therefore may not be as clear cut and down to contractual law as you might think, as I am sure SI would have just came out and said that straight away

Therefore I await there clarification, but thanks for your help

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All those speaking of the new patch: You are aware, are you not, that the last build of '07 was still riddled with holes. I don't know why you should expect anything better from '08.

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SI - Could not see this on the change list for V8.02 therefore could you confirm that this was not a bug?

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