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Wally is the scandinavians teams relegated and is there also made tranfers up there

cheers

What leagues mate im sure there will be some changes

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oh sorry

I used metals update but nearly non scandinavians tranfers where made

now I will use yours its sounds like a great update

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Part 3 Jupiler League (Holland)

FC Oss:

In:

Kevin Huijsman from FC Utrecht (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Antonio Stankov from Roda JC (on loan)

Joost Ebergen from NEC (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Bart van Muyen from FC Dordrecht (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Marcel van der Sloot from FC Dordrecht (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Roy de Ruiter from Vitesse (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Milad Intezar from NEC (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Charlie van den Ouweland (was released by RBC Roosendaal,signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Mark Roebbers from NEC (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Sebastian Sumelka from 1.fc Magdeburg (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Ryan van Dijk from NEC (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Jordi Braam from NEC (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Dennis Janssen from NEC (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Mark Redshaw from Stirling Lions (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Zdenko Kaprálik from SC Cambuur-Leeuwarden (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Vincent van Trier (released by r.antwerp fc, signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Out:

Jurgen Wevers (retired)

Melvin Kolf (contract terminated)

Chaly Jones (contract terminated)

Aziz Moutawakil (contract terminated)

Enrico Pellegriti (contract terminated)

Serdal Güvenc (contract terminated)

Geoffrey Galata (contract terminated)

Cendrino Misidjan to Almere City (signed a contract until 30th june 2013)

Dominique Scholten to Achilles '29

Erik Wegh to De Bataven

Emrullah Güvenc (contract terminated)

Stefan Maletic to Limhamn Bunkeflo

MVV:

In:

Sjoerd Winkens from Helmond Sport (signed a contract until 30th june 2014)

Marc Eberle from Black Aces (signed a contract until 30th june 2013)

Collin van Eijk from Roda JC (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Kjell Knops from EVV Echt (signed a contract until 30th june 2013)

Prince Rajcomar from ZTE Football Club (on loan)

Out:

Jonas Olsen (contract terminated)

Marco Ingrao (contract terminated)

Cliff Mardulier (contract terminated)

Alpha Ibrahim Bah to FC Eindhoven (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Edwin Wang to EVV Echt

Gerard Aafjes to FC Zwolle (signed a contract until 30th june 2014)

Omer Kulga to Kayserispor (signed a contract until 30th june 2014)

Brenny Evers (contract terminated)

Davide Timmermans (contract terminated)

Helmond Sport :

In:

Marc Nygaard from Unterhaching (signed a contract until 30th june 2013)

Björn Sengier from Lommel United (signed a contract until 30th june 2013)

Sebastian Stachnik from Sportfreunde Lotte (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Gillian Justiana from FC Zwolle (signed a contract until 30th june 2013)

Pepijn Veerman from RBC Roosendaal (signed a contract until 30th june 2013)

Zarko Grabovac from Fortuna Sittard (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Erik Quekel from FC Dordrecht (signed a contract until 30th june 2013)

Giorgos Niklitsiotis from Olympiakos Piraeus (on loan)

Out:

Marc Höcher to ADO den Haag (signed a contract until 30th june 2013)

Etienne Esajas to Swindon Town (signed a contract until 30th june 2013)

Joost Habraken to Gemert

Vojtech Machek (contract terminated)

Robert van Westerop (contract terminated)

Sjoerd Winkens to MVV (signed a contract until 30th june 2014)

Bruno Andrade to STVV (signed a contract until 30th june 2014)

Mark Veldmate to Sparta (signed a contract until 30th june 2013)

Ibad Muhamadu to Spakenburg

Kevin van Veen to Dijkse Boys

Deniz Aslan to Bursapor (signed a contract until 30th june 2014)

Ilja van Leerdam to Edmonton (signed a contract until 30th june 2012)

Robbie Haemhouts to Willem II (signed a contract until 30th june 2013)

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Hi Wally13.

Thanks for great update. Could you update polish Ekstraklasa and polish I League?

Ektraklasa:

http://www.90minut.pl/transfery.php?id_sezon=79&runda=1

I League:

http://www.90minut.pl/transfery.php?id_sezon=79&runda=1&poziom=2

Przychodzą - IN

Odchodzą - OUT

Brak klubu - FREE TRANSFER

Koniec kariery - RETIRED

Thank you, best regards !

Cheers for links mate but it be a lot better for me and quicker if you could post like jimmyneutron dose as im really busy now

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Ok guys thanks for All info im off to get in bed now watch shameless :D and get ready for tomorrows hectic dayPav as file now doing is stuff so post anything you want doing ad in Ca/Pa stuff and financies, cheers wally

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Polish Ekstraklasa transfers:

CRACOVIA

IN: Andrzej Niedzielan (N - Korona Kielce), Krzysztof Nykiel (O - Ruch Chorzów),), Rok Štraus (P - NK Publikum (Celje)), Koen van der Biezen (N - DVV Go Ahead Eagles), Mateusz Żytko (O - Polonia Bytom),

OUT: Miloš Budaković (B - Olimpia Elbląg-loan), Bartłomiej Dudzic (free), Piotr Giza (free), Marián Jarabica (O - Ludogorec Razgrad-loan), Mateusz Klich (P - VfL Wolfsburg), Marcin Krzywicki (N - Ruch Radzionków-loan), Sebastian Kurowski (N - Polonia Przemyśl), Pavol Masaryk (N - MFK Ružomberok), Łukasz Mierzejewski (O - AÓ Kavála), Mariusz Sacha (P - Podbeskidzie Bielsko-Biała), Vule Trivunović (O - FK Sarajevo)

GKS BEŁCHATÓW

IN: Miroslav Božok (P - Arka Gdynia), Kamil Kosowski (P - Apóllon FC), Maciej Krakowiak (B - Sokół Kleczew), Filip Modelski (O - West Ham United FC (rezerwy)), Leszek Nowosielski (P - Ruch Zdzieszowice), Piotr Piekarski (P - zespół ME), Maciej Szmatiuk (O - Arka Gdynia), Damian Zbozień (O - Sandecja Nowy Sącz)

OUT: Bartłomiej Bartosiak (P - Olimpia Elbląg loan), Mateusz Cetnarski (P - Śląsk Wrocław), Marcin Drzymont (free), Wojciech Jarmuż (free), Pawieł Komołow (P - Žalgiris Wilno), Maciej Małkowski (P - Zagłębie Lubin), Marcus Vinícius (N - Orkan Rumia), Kamil Paprocki (B - Omega Kleszczów), Kamil Wenger (O - MKS Kluczbork loan), Mariusz Zawodziński (P - KSZO Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski loan)

GÓRNIK ZABRZE

IN: Daniel Gołębiewski (N - Polonia Warszawa loan), Michał Jonczyk (N - powrót po kontuzji), Wojciech Król (P - Rozwój Katowice), Rafał Kurzawa (N - zespół ME), Krzysztof Mączyński (P - Łódzki KS), Mateusz Mączyński (P - Gwarek Zabrze (juniorzy)), Arkadiusz Milik (N - Rozwój Katowice), Paweł Olkowski (O - GKS Katowice), Boris Peškovič (B - 1.FC Tatran Prešov), Michał Płonka (P - Gwarek Zabrze (juniorzy)), Idan Shriki (N - Ashdod SC), Łukasz Skorupski (B - Ruch Radzionków), Szymon Sobczak (N - zespół ME), Kamil Szymura (O - Ruch Radzionków), Paul Thomik (P - 1.FC Union Berlin), Adam Wolniewicz (P - junior)

OUT: Grzegorz Bonin (P - Polonia Warszawa), Róbert Jež (P - Polonia Warszawa), Mariusz Jop (free), Bartosz Kopacz (O - Ruch Radzionków), Maciej Mańka (O - GKS Tychy), Gabriel Nowak (P – serious injury), Sebastian Nowak (B - Termalica Bruk-Bet Nieciecza), Rafał Pietrzak (P - Piast Gliwice), Daniel Sikorski (N - Polonia Warszawa), Adam Stachowiak (B - AS Anórthossis Ammochóstou), Mateusz Zachara (N - GKS Katowice)

JAGIELLONIA

IN: Grzegorz Arłukowicz (P - zespół ME), Krzysztof Baran (B - Chojniczanka Chojnice), Grzegorz Bartczak (O - Zagłębie Lubin), Róger Cañas (P - Sibir Nowosybirsk loan), Marko Ćetković (P - FK Mogren (Budva)), Merab Gigauri (P - Torpedo Kutaisi loan), Bartłomiej Grzelak (N - powrót po kontuzji), Vladimír Kukoľ (P - Sandecja Nowy Sącz), Maycon (N - Piast Gliwice), Jan Pawłowski (N - zespół ME), Dawid Plizga (P - Zagłębie Lubin), Tomasz Porębski (O - zespół ME), Jonatan Straus (O - zespół ME), Łukasz Tymiński (P - Polonia Bytom)

OUT: Franck Essomba (free), Mladen Kašćelan (P – ŁKS loan), Tadas Kijanskas (O - Korona Kielce loan), Jarosław Lato (P - Polonia/Sparta Świdnica), Bartłomiej Pawłowski (N - GKS Katowice loan), Grzegorz Sandomierski (B - KRC Genk), Vuk Sotirović (N - Pogoń Szczecin), Michał Steć (N - Olimpia Zambrów)

KORONA KIELCE

IN: Łukasz Cichos (N - Termalica Bruk-Bet Nieciecza), Łukasz Jamróz (N - Broń Radom), Paweł Kaczmarek (P - Bogdanka Łęczna), Paweł Kal (O - Olimpia Grudziądz), Jacek Kiełb (P - Lech Poznań loan), Krzysztof Kiercz (O - Wierna Małogoszcz), Tadas Kijanskas (O - Jagiellonia Białystok), Dominik Lenart (P - zespół ME), Artur Lenartowski (P - Raków Częstochowa), Wojciech Małecki (B - Znicz Pruszków), Michał Michałek (N - Bałtyk Gdynia), Wojciech Miśkiewicz (B - zespół ME), , Michał Zieliński (N - GKS Katowice)

OUT: Andradina (N - Pogoń Szczecin), Dirceu (free), Paweł Golański (O - ŁKS loan), Łukasz Jamróz (N - Orzeł Wierzbica), Dawid Janczyk (N - PFK Ołeksandrija), Jacek Markiewicz (free), Paweł Mech (B - Orzeł Wierzbica), Michał Michałek (injury), Andrzej Niedzielan (N - Cracovia), Sander Puri (P - Lombard Pápa FC), Grzegorz Szamotulski (B - free), Maciej Tataj (N - Dolcan Ząbki)

LECH POZNAŃ

IN: Gerard Bieszczad (B - Tur Turek), Marciano Bruma (O - Arka Gdynia), Przemysław Frąckowiak (B - zespół ME), Aleksandyr Tonew (P - CSKA Sofia), Aleksander Wandzel (B - MSP Szamotuly (juniorzy))

OUT: Tomasz Bandrowski (free), Bartosz Bosacki (free), Przemysław Frąckowiak (B - Atalanta Bergamo loan), Jacek Kiełb (P - Korona Kielce loan),

LECHIA GDAŃSK

IN: Fred Benson (N - RKC Waalwijk), Michał Buchalik (B - Odra Wodzisław Śląski), Mateusz Łuczak (N - Bałtyk Gdynia), Mateusz Machaj (P - Chrobry Głogów)

OUT: Bédi Buval (free), Jakub Zejglic (N - Bytovia Bytów loan)

LEGIA WARSZAWA

IN: Jakub Kosecki (P - Łódzki KS), Dušan Kuciak (B - FC Vaslui), Danijel Ljuboja (N - OGC Nice-Côte d'Azur), Moshe Ohayon (P - Ashdod SCMichał Żewłakow (O - MKE Ankaragücü SK)

OUT: Bruno Mezenga (N - FK Crvena zvezda (Belgrad)), Alejandro Cabral (P - CA Vélez Sársfield (Buenos Aires)), Takesure Chinyama (free), Dejan Kelhar (O - MKE Ankaragücü SK loan), Felix Ogbuke (P - Apóllon FC), Sebastian Szałachowski (P - ŁKS)

ŁKS ŁÓDŹ

IN: Paweł Golański (O - Korona Kielce loan) ,Mladen Kašćelan (P - Jagiellonia białystok loan), Przemysław Kita (N - Włókniarz Pabianice), Antoni Łukasiewicz (O - Śląsk wrocław loan), Tomasz Nowak (P - Bogdanka Łęczna), Adrian Olszewski (B - AP ŁKS Łódź (juniorzy)), Agwan Papikjan (P - AP ŁKS Łódź (juniorzy)), Wolodja Papikjan (P - AP ŁKS Łódź (juniorzy)), Radosław Pruchnik (P - Flota Świnoujście), Marek Saganowski (N - AÓ Atrómitos Peristeríou (Ateny)), Cezary Stefańczyk (O - Zawisza Bydgoszcz), Sebastian Szałachowski (P - Legia Warszawa), Robert Szczot (P - AÓ Iraklís (Saloniki)) ,Pavle Velimirović (B - OFK Petrovac),

OUT: Jakub Kosecki (P - Legia Warszawa), Krzysztof Mączyński (P - Górnik Zabrze), Mariusz Mowlik (O - Miedź Legnica), Brain Obem (free), Damian Pawlak (P - Olimpia Elbląg), Damian Seweryn (free), Paweł Waśków (B - Flota Świnoujście), Adrian Woźniczka (O - Miedź Legnica)

PODBESKIDZIE

IN: Mateusz Bąk (B - Wisła Płock), Krzysztof Król (O - Polonia Bytom), Matej Náther (P – from free), Mariusz Sacha (P - Cracovia), Adrian Sikora (N - APÓEL (Nikozja) (rezerwy)), Ondřej Šourek (O - MŠK Žilina)

OUT: Damian Byrtek (O - KSZO Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski), Arkadiusz Gołąb (O - BKS Stal Bielsko-Biała), Joachim Mikler (B - Beskid 09 Skoczów), Mariusz Mikoda (O - KSZO Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski )

POLONIA WARSZAWA

IN: Marcin Baszczyński (O - AÓ Atrómitos Peristeríou (Ateny)), Grzegorz Bonin (P - Górnik Zabrze), Edgar Çani (N - Modena FC 1912 loan), Róbert Jež (P - Górnik Zabrze), Miłosz Przybecki (P - Ruch Radzionków), Daniel Sikorski (N - Górnik Zabrze), Pavel Šultes (N - SK Sigma Ołomuniec), Aleksandar Todorovski (O - FK Rad (Belgrad)),

OUT: Miloš Adamović (P - FK Taraz), Janusz Gancarczyk (P - Zagłębie Lubin), Daniel Gołębiewski (N - Górnik Zabrze loan), Adrian Mierzejewski (P - Trabzonspor Kulübü), Dariusz Pietrasiak (O - Śląsk Wrocław), Patryk Rachwał (P - Zagłębie Lubin), Dmitrij Riekisz (P - Dinamo Mińsk), Łukasz Skowron (B - Radomiak Radom loan), Euzebiusz Smolarek (N - Al-Khor SC), Artur Sobiech (N - Hannover 96)

RUCH CHORZÓW

IN: Łukasz Burliga (O - Wisła Kraków), Igor Lewczuk (O - Piast Gliwice), Damian Matras (B - GKS Tychy), Jakub Smektała (P - Piast Gliwice),

OUT: Grzegorz Bronowicki (free), Łukasz Derbich (O - Sandecja Nowy Sącz), Bartosz Flis (N - Arka Gdynia loan), Ariel Jakubowski (O - Wisła Płock), Krzysztof Nykiel (O - Cracovia), Michał Pulkowski (P - Dolcan Ząbki), Michał Steinke (O - Chojniczanka Chojnice), Mateusz Struski (B - GKS Tychy loan)

ŚLĄSK WROCŁAW

IN: Mateusz Cetnarski (P - GKS Bełchatów), Dariusz Pietrasiak (O - Polonia Warszawa),), Johan Voskamp (N - Sparta Rotterdam), Marek Wasiluk (O - Cracovia loan), Krzysztof Żukowski (B - Flota Świnoujście)

OUT: Remigiusz Jezierski (retired), Antoni Łukasiewicz (O – ŁKS loan), Ljubiša Vukelja (free), Jakub Więzik (N - KS Polkowice)

WIDZEW ŁÓDŹ

IN: Princewill Okachi (N - Dingli Swallows FC),

OUT: Velibor Đurić (P - FK Olimpik (Sarajewo)), Paul Grischok (free), Rafał Grzelak (free), Préjuce Nakoulma (N - Bogdanka Łęczna), Michał Pytkowski (B - Pelikan Łowicz loan), Riku Riski (P - Örebro SK), Darvydas Šernas (N - Zagłębie Lubin), Bogdan Straton (O - CSMS Iași), Wojciech Szymanek (O - Czornomoreć Odessa), Sebastian Zalepa (O - Tur Turek loan)

WISŁA KRAKÓW

IN: Dudu Biton (N - Royal Charleroi SC loan), Júnior Díaz (P - Club Brugge KV loan), Ivica Iliev (P - FK Partizan (Belgrad)), Marko Jovanović (O - FK Partizan (Belgrad)), Michael Lamey (O - Leicester City FC), Gervasio Núñez (P - Quilmes AC loan)

OUT: Nourdin Boukhari (free), Serge Branco (free), Łukasz Burliga (O - Ruch Chorzów), Erik Čikoš (O - ŠK Slovan Bratysława), Wojciech Łobodziński (free), Andrés Ríos (N - CA River Plate (Buenos Aires), Michaił Siwakow (P - SV Zulte Waregem), Damian Skołorzyński (O - Termalica Bruk-Bet Nieciecza loan), Maciej Żurawski (free)

ZAGŁĘBIE LUBIN

IN: Janusz Gancarczyk (P - Polonia Warszawa), Michal Hanek (O - Polonia Bytom), Marcin Kowalczyk (O – Dinamo Moscow), Maciej Małkowski (P - GKS Bełchatów), Patryk Rachwał (P - Polonia Warszawa), Darvydas Šernas (N - Widzew Łódź), Błażej Telichowski (O - Polonia Bytom)

OUT: Grzegorz Bartczak (O - Jagiellonia Białystok), Mateusz Bartków (O - KS Polkowice loan), Adrian Błąd (P - Zawisza Bydgoszcz), Patryk Bryła (P - KS Polkowice loan), Dušan Đokić (free), Martins Ekwueme (P - Zawisza Bydgoszcz), Fernando Dinis (free),), Wojciech Kędziora (N - Piast Gliwice), Przemysław Kocot (O - KS Polkowice loan), Amer Osmanagić (P - OFK (Belgrad)), Dawid Plizga (P - Jagiellonia Białystok), Deniss Rakels (N - GKS Katowice loan), Michał Stasiak (O - AÓ Xánthi)

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Also I feel Welbeck has played enough games to have a fixed PA? 169? Clearly has potential to be a star, not sure if he is going to be a godly player (any player with a 180pa) i'd say currently thats very unlikely

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Also I feel Welbeck has played enough games to have a fixed PA? 169? Clearly has potential to be a star, not sure if he is going to be a godly player (any player with a 180pa) i'd say currently thats very unlikely

What do you make of Cleverley? I know he's had a bump already but for some reason I dont think its quite enough. I may be jumping the gun a bit, but I cant help but compare him with Wilshere. IMO Wilshere is only 'the next big thing' because he was playing for Arsenal. He's a good player but also in a good team, thus probably making him look slightly better than what he is. Imagine Wilshere at Wigan last season, and doing what Cleverley did? I cant see it. And now Cleverley has come back, had a fantastic pre-season and started the league like he's been there for years.

So on comparison, Cleverley looks good in a good team, that gets most things their own way. Wilshere looks good in a good team, that gets most things their own way*. Cleverley however also looked good in a team battling relegation, had to take most games by the scruff of the neck and was a key player in them avoiding relegation. So IMO, Cleverley has the greater potential, and potential to be better in all areas of the pitch than Wilshere.

* By 'getting their own way', I mean dominating games, and mostly being allowed to play with freedom.

Actually to put it more into perspective, Wilshere starts the game already as good as Cleverley could EVER be. IMO they are much closer together PA wise and also have potential.

Also when you compare in our squad, and our midfield at the moment, Anderson currently has 154/170, and Cleverley has 141/156. Anderson is already as good as Cleverley could ever be but IMO Cleverley has more potential than Anderson. Thoughts?

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Polish I liga

Teams relegated:

GKP Gorzów

MKS Kluczbork

KSZO

Odra Wodzisław

Teams promoted:

Zawisza Bydgoszcz

Olimpia Elbląg

Olimpia Grudziądz

Wisła Płock

ARKA GDYNIA

IN : Ensar Arifović (N - Flota Świnoujście), Krzysztof Bułka (P - Olimpia Elbląg), Bartosz Flis (N - Ruch ChorzówOmar Jarun (O - FC Tampa Bay), Marcin Juszczyk (B - Polonia Bytom), Piotr Kasperkiewicz (P - Tur Turek), Jakub Kowalski (P - OKS 1945 Olsztyn), Damian Krajanowski (O - Flota Świnoujście), Piotr Kuklis (P - Widzew II Łódź), Krzysztof Łągiewka (free), Sławomir Mazurkiewicz (O - Flota Świnoujście), Bartłomiej Niedziela (P - Flota Świnoujście), Marcin Radzewicz (P - Polonia Bytom), Radosław Strzelecki (O - Ceramika Opoczno), Janusz Surdykowski (N - APÉP (Kyperoúnta)), Maciej Szlaga (B - Gryf Wejherowo),

OUT: Robert Bednarek (free), Miroslav Božok (P - GKS Bełchatów), Marciano Bruma (O - Lech Poznań), Filip Burkhardt (P - Sandecja Nowy Sącz), Giovanni (free), Denis Glavina (P - free), Tadas Labukas (N - SK Brann), Marcelo Moretto (B - Avaí FC (Florianópolis)), Joseph Mawayé (free ), Emil Noll (O - Pogoń Szczecin), Piotr Robakowski ( free ),Júnior Ross (N - Club Sporting Cristal (Lima)), Ante Rožić (O - Gold Coast United FC), Rafał Siemaszko (N - Orkan Rumia), Ervin Skela (free), Adrian Sulima (free), Maciej Szmatiuk (O - GKS Bełchatów), Paweł Zawistowski (P - Zawisza Bydgoszcz)

BOGDANKA ŁĘCZNA:

IN: Jacek Falkowski (P - Polonia Bytom )), Jhonatan (Ponte Preta), Jacek Kusiak (N - Tomasovia Tomaszów Lubelski), Wojciech Łuczak (P - Cracovia ), Damian Maleszyk (O - Polonia Warszawa ), Marko Matić (P - Legia Warszawa ), Łukasz Mitaszka (P - Lewart Lubartów), Préjuce Nakoulma (N - Widzew Łódź), Jovan Ninković (O - Tur Turek), Łukasz Pielorz (O - Energetyk ROW Rybnik), Michał Renusz (P - OKS 1945 Olsztyn), Paweł Socha (B - Stal Stalowa Wola), Krystian Wójcik (P - Motor Lublin)

OUT: Danijeł Bożkow (O - Botew Płowdiw), Jakub Giertl (B - Stal Rzeszów), Paweł Kaczmarek (P - Korona Kielce), Dejan Milošeski (P - Panachaïkí GÉ (Patras),Sławomir Nazaruk (retired), Tomasz Nowak (P - Łódzki KS), Ricardinho (P - Wisła Płock), Paweł Sasin (P - Warta Poznań), Grzegorz Szymanek (free), Eivinas Zagurskas (P - Wisła Płock), Mariusz Zasada (P - Miedź Legnica)

DOLCAN ZĄBKI

IN: Piotr Charzewski (P - GLKS Nadarzyn), Piotr Głowacki (P - Mrągowia Mrągowo), Rafał Grzelak (Wisła Płock), Bartosz Osoliński (P - Znicz Pruszków), Michał Pulkowski (P - Ruch Chorzów), Łukasz Sierpina (P - KS Polkowice), , Maciej Tataj (N - Korona Kielce), Tomasz Wełna (O - Polonia Warszawa )

OUT:

Paweł Buśkiewicz (N - Olimpia Elbląg), Tomasz Chałas (free), Piotr Dziewicki (free), Piotr Gawęcki (N - Korona Kielce (ME)), Jakub Kabala (P - GKP Targówek (Warszawa)), Rafał Misztal (B - KSZO Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski), Maciej Osłowski (free), Hubert Robaszek (P - Omega Kleszczów), Marcin Stańczyk (free), Andrzej Stretowicz (N - Høland IL), Mariusz Unierzyski (O - Tęcza 34 Płońsk), Łukasz Wróbel (O - Bytovia Bytów)

FLOTA ŚWINOUJŚCIE:

IN: Mateusz Broź (free), Daniel Chyła (P - KS Polkowice), Radosław Jasiński (O - Lech Poznań ), Rafał Kalinowski (P - UKS SMS Łódź), Piotr Kieruzel (O - Warta Poznań), Christian Nnamani (N - Ilanka Rzepin), Marek Opałacz (O - KS Polkowice), Kamil Stachyra (P - Bogdanka Łęczna), Bartosz Śpiączka (N - Grom Wolsztyn), , Paweł Waśków (B - Łódzki KS),

OUT: Pedro Arce (free ), Ensar Arifović (N - Arka Gdynia), Daniel Dylewski (N - KSZO Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski), Damian Falisiewicz (O - Motor Lublin ), Przemysław Kazimierczak (free ), Damian Krajanowski (O - Arka Gdynia), Sławomir Mazurkiewicz (O - Arka Gdynia), Bartłomiej Niedziela (P - Arka Gdynia), Charles Nwaogu (N - FC Energie Cottbus), Radosław Pruchnik (P - Łódzki KS), Krzysztof Żukowski (B - Śląsk Wrocław)

GKS KATOWICE:

IN: Ján Beliančin (O - Ruch Radzionków), Michal Farkaš (free), Daniel Feruga (P - GKS Tychy), Dawid Jarka (N - Ruch Radzionków), Damian Kaciczak (O - Ruch Radzionków), Mateusz Kamiński (O - rezerwy), Krzysztof Damian Kozik (B - Piast Gliwice), Dominik Kruczek (P - GKS Tychy), Bartłomiej Pawłowski (N - Jagiellonia Białystok), Deniss Rakels (N - Zagłębie Lubin), Tomasz Rzepka (O - Ruch Radzionków), Witold Sabela (B - Pelikan Łowicz), Bartosz Sobotka (P - Rozwój Katowice), , Maciej Wierzbicki (B - LZS Piotrówka), Mateusz Zachara (N - Górnik Zabrze)

OUT: Janusz Dziedzic (N - Olimpia Grudziądz), Krzysztof Kaliciak (free ), Bartosz Karwan (free), Bartłomiej Kędzierski (N - Janina Libiąż), Arkadiusz Kowalczyk (N - Rozwój Katowice), Tomasz Mazurkiewicz (free ), Paweł Olkowski (O - Górnik Zabrze), Tomasz Owczarek (O - AKS Niwka Sosnowiec), Marek Pączek (free), Piotr Piechniak (P - Resovia), Rafał Sadowski (P - kontuzja), Tomasz Sokołowski II (O - free), Mateusz Sroka (P - Zagłębie Sosnowiec), Wojciech Szala (free ), Michał Zieliński (N - Korona Kielce)

KOLEJARZ STRÓŻE:

IN: Konrad Cebula (P - Sandecja Nowy Sącz), Michał Chrapek (P - Wisła Kraków loan),), Mateusz Kantor (P - Resovia), Maciej Kowalczyk (N - Sandecja Nowy Sącz), Krzysztof Markowski (O - Zagłębie Sosnowiec), Janusz Wolański (P - KSZO Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski), Dariusz Zawadzki (P - Pogoń Szczecin)

OUT: Łukasz Jarosiewicz (P - Gwardia Koszalin), Piotr Madejski (N - Miedź Legnica), Kamil Rado (P - Garbarnia Kraków), Bartłomiej Socha (free), Marcin Staniek (O - Olimpia Elbląg), Longinus Uwakwe (P - KP Piaseczno)

KP POLKOWICE:

IN: Mateusz Bartków (O - Zagłębie Lubin), Patryk Bryła (P - Zagłębie Lubin), Krzysztof Janus (P - Cracovia ), , Krzysztof Kazimierczak (O - Bogdanka Łęczna), Przemysław Kocot (O - Zagłębie Lubin), Peter Mičic (O - FK Dukla Praga), Michał Miłek (P - Zagłębie Lubin ), Marcin Nowak (free), Mateusz Peroński (P - Śląsk Wrocław )), Grzegorz Podstawek (N - Polonia Bytom), Dawid Wacławczyk (O - Olimpia Grudziądz), Jakub Więzik (N - Śląsk Wrocław)

OUT: František Brezničan (free), Daniel Chyła (P - Flota Świnoujście), Zbigniew Grzybowski (N - Chrobry Głogów), Łukasz Jarosiński (B - MKS Kluczbork), Dawid Jasiński (O - Sparta Brodnica), Marcin Kokoszka (O - Olimpia Grudziądz), Bernard Ocholeche (P - KP Piaseczno), Paweł Oleksy (O - Zawisza Bydgoszcz), Marek Opałacz (O - Flota Świnoujście), Petr Pokorný (free), Łukasz Sierpina (P - Dolcan Ząbki), Maciej Soboń (P - Chrobry Głogów), Damian Szuprytowski (P - Lechia Gdańsk), Łukasz Tumicz (N - Olimpia Grudziądz)

OLIMPIA ELBLĄG

IN: Adam Banasiak (P - Legia Warszawa ), Bartłomiej Bartosiak (P - GKS Bełchatów loan), Miloš Budaković (B – Cracovia loan), Paweł Buśkiewicz (N - Dolcan Ząbki), Bartosz Iwan (P - Piast Gliwice), Mateusz Jacak (O - Warta Działoszyn), Daniel Koczon (free), Mariusz Muszalik (P - Piast Gliwice), Marcin Pacan (O - Wisła Płock), Damian Pawlak (P - Łódzki KS), Robert Sierant (P - Chojniczanka Chojnice), Marcin Staniek (O - Kolejarz Stróże), Krzysztof Stodoła (B - MKS Kluczbork), Sławomir Szary (O - Piast Gliwice), Łukasz Zaniewski (P - GLKS Nadarzyn)

OUT: Krzysztof Bułka (P - Arka Gdynia), Ireneusz Chrzanowski (free), Dawit Czigladze (free), Paweł Grocholski (O - Pogoń Szczecin), Krzysztof Hałgas (P - Piast Gliwice), Kamil Jackiewicz (N - Zawisza Bydgoszcz), Anton Kołosow (N - Olimpia 2004 Elbląg), Witalij Ledieniow (free), Andrzej Liszko (P - Zatoka Braniewo), Rafał Loda (O - Bałtyk Gdynia), Marcin Pająk (free), Łukasz Pietroń (P - Jeziorak Iława), Dominik Sobański (B - Warta Poznań), Krzysztof Sobieraj (O - Warta Poznań), Aleksandr Staszczeniuk (O - Sławija Mozyrz), Witalij Szepietowskij (free)

OLIMPIA GRUDZIĄDZ

IN: Jakub Cieciura (P - KSZO Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski), Tomasz Copik (P - MKS Kluczbork), Maciej Dąbrowski (O - Zawisza Bydgoszcz), Janusz Dziedzic (N - GKS Katowice), Marcin Kokoszka (O - KS Polkowice), Arkadiusz Koprucki (O - OKS 1945 Olsztyn), Łukasz Tumicz (N - KS Polkowice)

OUT: rzysztof Brede (O - Lechia II Gdańsk), Paschal Ekwueme (free), Paweł Kal (O - Korona Kielce), Maciej Koczur (P - Start Warlubie), Arkadiusz Koprucki (O - OKS 1945 Olsztyn), Przemysław Królak (O - Lubuszanin Trzcianka), Mariusz Pawlak (retired), Dawid Wacławczyk (O - KS Polkowice), Ariel Winiecki (B - Lech Rypin), Paweł Zarzycki (B - Concordia Knurów)

PIAST GLIWICE

IN: Tomasz Bzdęga (N - KSZO Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski), Pavol Cicman (N - MFK Dolný Kubín), Krzysztof Hałgas (P - Olimpia Elbląg), Wojciech Kędziora (N - Zagłębie Lubin), Marcin Korbecki (B - Karpaty Krosno), Wojciech Lisowski (O - Legia Warszawa ), Roman Maciejak (N - Górnik Wałbrzych), Szymon Matuszek (P - Chojniczanka Chojnice), Adrian Nakonieczny (P - rezerwy), Rafał Pietrzak (P - Górnik Zabrze), Adrian Świątek (N - Ruch Radzionków), Dariusz Trela (B - Okocimski KS Brzesko), Pavel Vrána (N - MFK Karviná)

OUT: Jakub Biskup (P - Termalica Bruk-Bet Nieciecza), Michał Chałbiński (free), Paweł Gamla (O - Polonia Bytom), Bartosz Iwan (P - Olimpia Elbląg), Jarosław Kaszowski (P - Ruch Radzionków), Krzysztof Damian Kozik (B - GKS Katowice), Igor Lewczuk (O - Ruch Chorzów), Maycon (N - Jagiellonia Białystok), Mariusz Muszalik (P - Olimpia Elbląg), Robert Pietrek (B - Rozwój Katowice), Bartłomiej Sielewski (P - Wisła Płock), Jakub Smektała (P - Ruch Chorzów), Damian Sopel (P - LZS Leśnica), Sławomir Szary (O - Olimpia Elbląg)

POGOŃ SZCZECIN

IN: Andradina (N - Korona Kielce), Donald Djoussé (N - Dinamo Tbilisi), Mariusz Gabrych (N - Unia Janikowo), Paweł Grocholski (O - Olimpia Elbląg), Peter Hricko (O - Polonia Bytom), Damian Kostkowski (O - Lechia Gdańsk), Dawid Kucharski (O - Heart of Midlothian FC), Yoki Kumada (JEF UNITED), Mateusz Lewandowski (P - Wisła Płock), Emil Noll (O - Arka Gdynia), Vuk Sotirović (N - Jagiellonia Białystok), Łukasz Wójcik (O - Pogoń Siedlce),

OUT: Marcin Dymkowski (O - Sandecja Nowy Sącz), Piotr Dziuba (N - Kotwica Kołobrzeg), Dzikamai Gwaze (free), Krzysztof Hrymowicz (O - Zawisza Bydgoszcz), Marcin Klatt (N - Warta Poznań), Mikołaj Lebedyński (N - Roda JC Kerkrade), Kamil Majkowski (P - Zawisza Bydgoszcz), Tomasz Rydzak (P - Kotwica Kołobrzeg), Dariusz Zawadzki (P - Kolejarz Stróże)

POLONIA BYTOM

IN: Paweł Alancewicz (P - OKS 1945 Olsztyn), Juraj Baláž (free), Paweł Gamla (O - Piast Gliwice), Dariusz Góral (N - MKS Kluczbork), , Piotr Kornacki (P - Radomiak Radom), Daniel Mąka (N - Termalica Bruk-Bet Nieciecza), Krzysztof Michalak (O - Włókniarz Zelów), Adrian Pietrowski (N - Nielba Wągrowiec, Maksym Pokotyluk (P - Orlicz Suchedniów), James Sinclair (free), Daniel Tanżyna (O - Odra Wodzisław Śląski), Luka Tiodorović (P - FK Mladost (Podgorica)

OUT: Miroslav Barčík (P - MŠK Žilina), Marek Bažík (P - FK Dukla Bańska Bystrzyca), Emil Drozdowicz (N - Termalica Bruk-Bet Nieciecza), Michal Hanek (O - Zagłębie Lubin), Peter Hricko (O - Pogoń Szczecin), Dariusz Jarecki (P - Termalica Bruk-Bet Nieciecza), Marcin Juszczyk (B - Arka Gdynia), David Kobylík (P - TSV Hartberg), Krzysztof Król (O - Podbeskidzie Bielsko-Biała), Clemence Matawu (free), Grzegorz Podstawek (N - KS Polkowice), Marcin Radzewicz (P - Arka Gdynia), Błażej Telichowski (O - Zagłębie Lubin), Przemysław Trytko (free), Łukasz Tymiński (P - Jagiellonia Białystok), Blažej Vaščák (free), Mateusz Żytko (O - Cracovia)

RUCH RADZIONKÓW

IN: Adam Giesa (P - Ruch Zdzieszowice), Jarosław Kaszowski (P - Piast Gliwice), Bartosz Kopacz (O - Górnik Zabrze), Marcin Krzywicki (N – Cracovia loan), Damian Michalik (P - Górnik Zabrze )), Mateusz Mika (B - Ruch Zdzieszowice), Michał Nalepa (O - Wisła Kraków loan), Rafał Otwinowski (O - Górnik Zabrze )), Szymon Skrzypczak (N - Zagłębie Lubin )

OUT: Vladimír Balát (P - ?), Ján Beliančin (O - GKS Katowice), Tomasz Foszmańczyk (P - Warta Poznań), Dawid Gajewski (P - Energetyk ROW Rybnik), Jacek Jankowski (B - ?), Dawid Jarka (N - GKS Katowice), Damian Kaciczak (O - GKS Katowice), Andrzej Niewulis (O - Wigry Suwałki), Miłosz Przybecki (P - Polonia Warszawa), Tomasz Rzepka (O - GKS Katowice), Łukasz Skorupski (B - Górnik Zabrze), Kamil Szymura (O - Górnik Zabrze), Adrian Świątek (N - Piast Gliwice)

SANDECJA NOWY SĄCZ

IN: Filip Burkhardt (P - Arka Gdynia), Łukasz Derbich (O - Ruch Chorzów), Milan Đurić (P - FK Metalurg (Skopje)), Marcin Dymkowski (O - Pogoń Szczecin), Patryk Jędrzejowski (P - Śląsk Wrocław ), Michał Trzeciakiewicz (P - KSZO Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski), Bartosz Wiśniewski (O - Wisła Płock)

OUT: Konrad Cebula (P - Kolejarz Stróże), Ondrej Čurgali (N - Slovan Duslo Šaľa), Fabian Fałowski (N - Lubań Maniowy), Maciej Kowalczyk (N - Kolejarz Stróże), Vladimír Kukoľ (P - Jagiellonia Białystok), Damian Staniszewski (N - Kotwica Kołobrzeg), Damian Zbozień (O - GKS Bełchatów)

TERMALICA NIECIECZA

IN: Jakub Biskup (P - Piast Gliwice), Piotr Ceglarz (P - Raków Częstochowa), Jakub Czerwiński (O - Okocimski KS Brzesko), Emil Drozdowicz (N - Polonia Bytom), Dariusz Jarecki (P - Polonia Bytom), Szymon Martuś (N - Polonia Warszawa) , Sebastian Nowak (B - Górnik Zabrze), Dalibor Pleva (P - FK Dukla Bańska Bystrzyca), Maciej Pochroń (B - MLKS Żabno), Damian Skołorzyński (O - Wisła Kraków loan)

OUT: Łukasz Cichos (N - Korona Kielce), Paweł Cygnar (P - Resovia), Adrian Fedoruk (P - Garbarnia Kraków), Ľuboš Hajdúch (B - Kaposvári Rákóczi FC), Damian Jędryka (P - Bałtyk Gdynia), Daniel Mąka (N - Polonia Bytom), Bartłomiej Piszczek (O - Garbarnia Kraków), Artur Prokop (P - Limanovia Limanowa), Łukasz Tupalski (free), Andrzej Wójcik (free)

WARTA POZNAŃ:

IN: Bartosz Bereszyński (N - Lech Poznań ), , Tomasz Foszmańczyk (P - Ruch Radzionków), Michał Goliński (P - Cracovia), Marcin Klatt (N - Pogoń Szczecin), Filip Marciniak (P - Tur Turek), Paweł Sasin (P - Bogdanka Łęczna), Dominik Sobański (B - Olimpia Elbląg), Krzysztof Sobieraj (O - Olimpia Elbląg), Mariusz Ujek (free), Damian Zawadzki (O - Widzew II Łódź)

OUT: Adrian Bartkowiak (free), Andrzej Bledzewski (B - Miedź Legnica), Piotr Kieruzel (O - Flota Świnoujście), Marcin Wojciechowski (free), Adrian Wróblewski (O - Wda Świecie), Zbigniew Zakrzewski (N - Miedź Legnica)

WISŁA PŁOCK

IN: Édison (O - Palmas FR), Ariel Jakubowski (O - Ruch Chorzów), João Paulo (N - Pão de Açúcar EC (São Paulo)), Patryk Kamiński (P - Start Otwock), Daniel Mitura (free),, Ricardinho (P - Bogdanka Łęczna), Bartłomiej Sielewski (P - Piast Gliwice), Jacek Skrzyński (B - GKP Gorzów Wielkopolski), Eivinas Zagurskas (P - Bogdanka Łęczna), Rafał Zembrowski (O - Polonia Warszawa )

OUT: Mateusz Bąk (B - Podbeskidzie Bielsko-Biała), Tomasz Grudzień (P - Elana Toruń), Krzysztof Hus (free), Piotr Karwan (O - Motor Lublin), Mateusz Lewandowski (P - Pogoń Szczecin), Damian Łazicki (free), Marcin Nowacki (P - Miedź Legnica), Marcin Pacan (O - Olimpia Elbląg), Rafael (free), Robert Sing (free), , Michał Twardowski (N - Resovia), Bartosz Wiśniewski (O - Sandecja Nowy Sącz), Jakub Zabłocki (free), Arkadiusz Żaglewski (P - Jeziorak Iława)

ZAWISZA BYDGOSZCZ

IN: Adrian Błąd (P - Zagłębie Lubin), , Martins Ekwueme (P - Zagłębie Lubin), Vahan Gevorgyan (P - KSZO Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski), Krzysztof Hrymowicz (O - Pogoń Szczecin), Michał Ilków-Gołąb (O - GKP Gorzów Wielkopolski), Kamil Jackiewicz (N - Olimpia Elbląg), Rafał Leśniewski (N - Nielba Wągrowiec), Kamil Majkowski (P - Pogoń Szczecin), Michał Markowski (O - Zagłębie Lubin )), Michał Masłowski (N - Lechia Dzierżoniów), Paweł Oleksy (O - KS Polkowice), Łukasz Skrzyński (free), Paweł Zawistowski (P - Arka Gdynia)

OUT: Jakub Bojas (N - Lech Rypin), Maciej Dąbrowski (O - Olimpia Grudziądz), Galdino (P - MKS Kluczbork), Łukasz Juszkiewicz (P - ?), Maciej Kot (P - Unia Janikowo), Cezary Stefańczyk (O - Łódzki KS), Tomasz Szczepan (P - Chojniczanka Chojnice), Paweł Tabaczyński (N - Notecianka Pakość), Marcin Tarnowski (N - Chojniczanka Chojnice), Émile Thiakane (P - Włocłavia Włocławek), Tomasz Warczachowski (O - Flisak Złotoria)

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What do you make of Cleverley? I know he's had a bump already but for some reason I dont think its quite enough. I may be jumping the gun a bit, but I cant help but compare him with Wilshere. IMO Wilshere is only 'the next big thing' because he was playing for Arsenal. He's a good player but also in a good team, thus probably making him look slightly better than what he is. Imagine Wilshere at Wigan last season, and doing what Cleverley did? I cant see it. And now Cleverley has come back, had a fantastic pre-season and started the league like he's been there for years.

So on comparison, Cleverley looks good in a good team, that gets most things their own way. Wilshere looks good in a good team, that gets most things their own way*. Cleverley however also looked good in a team battling relegation, had to take most games by the scruff of the neck and was a key player in them avoiding relegation. So IMO, Cleverley has the greater potential, and potential to be better in all areas of the pitch than Wilshere.

* By 'getting their own way', I mean dominating games, and mostly being allowed to play with freedom.

Cant remember what he was bumped to, but the biggest improvements from cleverely has been mentally, his decision making as improved considerably over the least year, certainly far more creative than the original db, better concentration, hes a far more attentive player, very solid movement off the ball good team work and work rate, and decent defensive. Wouldnt call him hugely full of flair, but can be capable of it. Really he's a slightly lesser, more reserved Wilshere at the moment. Not got the same flair and dribbling, but he is close with his passing (which has been excellent, 91%)

Right now i couldnt give him the same PA as Wilshere (whose PA really should be 178-181) it'd be 170. Like Welbeck he needs another season before we can say he's going to be quality, or he's going to be world class. At Bolton we knew Wilshere was going to be quality, but its this season that's shown hes going to be truly world class

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Ive edited my post madsheep. Just to add a bit of perspective. If you mean 170 PA for Cleverley then yeh, thats more like it :thup:

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Actually to put it more into perspective, Wilshere starts the game already as good as Cleverley could EVER be. IMO they are much closer together CA wise and also have potential.

Also when you compare in our squad, and our midfield at the moment, Anderson currently has 154/170, and Cleverley has 141/156. Anderson is already as good as Cleverley could ever be but IMO Cleverley has more potential than Anderson. Thoughts?

CA wise they should be perhaps be a little closer but the PA is way off. Anderson will be higher because of his supreme physical stats but the balance should be fairly close in the mental attributes. I dont know if Cleverley's PA should be higher than Anderson, i'd have it equal, but he'd be the better player because of a better balance (remember Cleverley is virtually two footed)

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CA wise they should be perhaps be a little closer but the PA is way off. Anderson will be higher because of his supreme physical stats but the balance should be fairly close in the mental attributes. I dont know if Cleverley's PA should be higher than Anderson, i'd have it equal, but he'd be the better player because of a better balance (remember Cleverley is virtually two footed)

Yeh I suppose. Obviously you know more about the weightings and balance. Im purely going off numbers. And when Ando has 170 PA, Wilshere has 185 PA and Cleverley has 156 PA, it just doesnt add up to me.

So going off what you say, Cleverley should have a CA closer to Wilsheres and a PA closer to Andersons? That basically makes him Anderson as he is now numbers wise :p

That I would agree with :thup:

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Yeh I suppose. Obviously you know more about the weightings and balance. Im purely going off numbers. And when Ando has 170 PA, Wilshere has 185 PA and Cleverley has 156 PA, it just doesnt add up to me.

So going off what you say, Cleverley should have a CA closer to Wilsheres and a PA closer to Andersons? That basically makes him Anderson as he is now numbers wise :p

That I would agree with :thup:

i would agree with that............but this is what makes it a hard call loads wont agree....i would make a case that smalling deserves a few notches increase too, and jones looks very very good didnt realise what a good ball player he is solid in defence and good bringing the ball out...so he too should have ca/pa boost

the swansea keeper looks a great buy and i will be giving him some ++++ ;)

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Just another small thing. I know he's only played a few games there, but maybe Smalling deserves a little boost in the DR position. At the moment he's unconvincing (yellow) but in the games he's played, he's looked far from unconvincing. Even Fergie said, after the Spurs game I think, that he looked like he'd been playing there for year when asked about Smallings performance. So maybe give him the benefit of the doubt for now and bump him to competent?

FWIW, ive just changed him from 10 to 13 for RB and he's now competent at RB.

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Ok Cleverley is 138/-9 in the latest update

Based on last season and the start of this season I'd make the following changes:

Concentration 10 < 12

Decision 10 < 14

Positioning 9 < 11

Off the Ball 12 < 13

Technique 13 < 15

So would be 151, and i'd set PA at 170

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Ok Cleverley is 138/-9 in the latest update

Based on last season and the start of this season I'd make the following changes:

Concentration 10 < 12

Decision 10 < 14

Positioning 9 < 11

Off the Ball 12 < 13

Technique 13 < 15

So would be 151, and i'd set PA at 170

Spot on :thup:

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Will look at Cleverly now lads. He had an good season at Wigan but you have to remember if you were going to look good its easier to do it at Man Utd than anywhere else, Aaron Ramsey would get a game for Man Utd and then you would think he's amazing. So i got to balance it out. Jordan Henderson is about 140 he scored the other day and went for 20m in the summer whether we agree on the price or not, so Clev cant be much more than him otherwise the game becomes unbalanced. I will make him better..he has had an increase already but i wont go mental. I rate the lad a lot tho so he will get a boost. 150 he isnt yet tho. And he's a -9 and so like i said about Welbeck in here before you just have to play them. Just like Sir Alex has, take a chance. My mate loaned Welbeck for Newcastle and he got 7 in 7.

If only you could put a "makes silly faces" on Ando then everything would be amazing.

And i will make Smalling a DRC but at the same time Evans played at LB at times last season so i will make him a DLC too.

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Will look at Cleverly now lads. He had an good season at Wigan but you have to remember if you were going to look good its easier to do it at Man Utd than anywhere else, Aaron Ramsey would get a game for Man Utd and then you would think he's amazing. So i got to balance it out. Jordan Henderson is about 140 he scored the other day and went for 20m in the summer whether we agree on the price or not, so Clev cant be much more than him otherwise the game becomes unbalanced. I will make him better..he has had an increase already but i wont go mental. I rate the lad a lot tho so he will get a boost. 150 he isnt yet tho. And he's a -9 and so like i said about Welbeck in here before you just have to play them. Just like Sir Alex has, take a chance. My mate loaned Welbeck for Newcastle and he got 7 in 7.

If only you could put a "makes silly faces" on Ando then everything would be amazing.

And i will make Smalling a DRC but at the same time Evans played at LB at times last season so i will make him a DLC too.

I'm not just rating him on his three games, but on his season at Wigan, its not about the numbers, but the balance, my posts pretty much say it all. No offence but you cant compare it to the fact that henderson went for 20 million, that has no bearing on Cleverley.

As my previous post points out the 5 areas he's improved on. Especially his decison making, its biggest part of his game. He isnt and average decision maker, he is a very good one, its what makes his whole passing game so good

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Will look at Cleverly now lads. He had an good season at Wigan but you have to remember if you were going to look good its easier to do it at Man Utd than anywhere else, Aaron Ramsey would get a game for Man Utd and then you would think he's amazing. So i got to balance it out. Jordan Henderson is about 140 he scored the other day and went for 20m in the summer whether we agree on the price or not, so Clev cant be much more than him otherwise the game becomes unbalanced. I will make him better..he has had an increase already but i wont go mental. I rate the lad a lot tho so he will get a boost. 150 he isnt yet tho. And he's a -9 and so like i said about Welbeck in here before you just have to play them. Just like Sir Alex has, take a chance. My mate loaned Welbeck for Newcastle and he got 7 in 7.

If only you could put a "makes silly faces" on Ando then everything would be amazing.

And i will make Smalling a DRC but at the same time Evans played at LB at times last season so i will make him a DLC too.

This lol :thup:

Evans played a lot at LB when he started breaking into the team aswell so really thats something he should always have anyway. Actually he's already competent at LB.

Your point about Cleverley and Ramsey is exactly what I said about Wilshere. Of course he is going to look good in the Arsenal team. Cleverley was a massive part in keeping Wigan in the league, and probably playing football he wasnt used to. And now he's back at United and looks like he's been in the team for years. Arguably keeping out Michael Carrick (not the best example I know :p ). Wilshere was good at Bolton also but also not in the same predicament that Wigan were in. Also the fact that Owen Coyle came and basically changed Bolton's style of play also helped. But a lot of people will just look at that and think 'Oh look at Wilshere playing like that for Bolton and Bolton actually playing well, it must be because of Wilshere'. When really it was down to Coyle.

-9 is too vague for Cleverley. We know NOW he's better than 150, so how can he have a PA where he could potentially get that? With madsheeps changes, which are only a couple, put him at 151. If he gets a mid-high -9 PA then all well and good, but theres a big chance he wont also, and no matter how much you play him, he wont get better. He needs a set PA.

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Here's some changes to CA/PA, see if people generally agree and if so I'll go through the rest of the prem and other teams.

Arsenal CA/PA

Gervinho 151-172

Arshavin 146-166

Vermaelen 169-175

Wilshere 169-182

Djourou 145/150

Sagna 167/169

Szczesny 153/176

Gibbs 140/166

Jenkinson DRLC

Aston Villa

Given 160/162

N'zogbia 153/169

Dunne 149/155

Collins 149/159

Herd 108/-8 (DR)

I dont mind asking for request m8, but lol...i'd leave it to me. Sagna 167? haha. Sam Herd your bang on thanks tho Champ :)

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This lol :thup:

Evans played a lot at LB when he started breaking into the team aswell so really thats something he should always have anyway. Actually he's already competent at LB.

Your point about Cleverley and Ramsey is exactly what I said about Wilshere. Of course he is going to look good in the Arsenal team. Cleverley was a massive part in keeping Wigan in the league, and probably playing football he wasnt used to. And now he's back at United and looks like he's been in the team for years. Arguably keeping out Michael Carrick (not the best example I know :p ). Wilshere was good at Bolton also but also not in the same predicament that Wigan were in. Also the fact that Owen Coyle came and basically changed Bolton's style of play also helped. But a lot of people will just look at that and think 'Oh look at Wilshere playing like that for Bolton and Bolton actually playing well, it must be because of Wilshere'. When really it was down to Coyle.

Good job its up to me then hey stevey boy. I dont wanna start on the Man Utd tinted glasses again. Not after last time ;). I respect your opinion.

Right, Wigan actually play nice football because of Martinez, he scored some good goals there too and was great in the u21's. Bolton were at the bottom of the league pretty much when Coyle took over from Megson so they were in exactly the same situation. He's a good good player but my point is i cant go over the top with him as he is not on the same level as a gotze/wilshire/thiago not yet. Maybe one day.. He will be a high 140 but in the 150's i cant beacsue of people like Henderson and Ramsey...if they were playing for utd would you want them to be that high? Probs, but they dont and there not that high and in terms of the game they have to be at about the same level. I guarentee Clev wont be a 150 on fm12. But i agree on the potential. 170 is good. If you want that as a fixed PA. Were talking about 5/6 points on the CA atm. Wilshire is as good as he is, because he bossed Barcelona's midfield. And actually looked good enough to be in the best team of all time. And i saw Bolton 5 or 6 times at the reebok that season and Wilshire was playing LW when it was Wenger who put him in CM in pre season and he started against liverpool there first game of last season when Joe Cole got sent off. Now i gotta get on with editing so wally can have it for the morning.

Apart from at Man Utd, is there anyone else you think merits an upgrade :)

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To put it into context, Ross Barkley has a PA of -10??

Ok well, that might need to be changed. But he has starred in Englands u17 teams. I'll take it on board. And that kid is a star.

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This is why pa/ca are so hard to do on updates because of peoples opinions. Thats all they are, dont ruin it lads.

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Good job its up to me then hey stevey boy. I dont wanna start on the Man Utd tinted glasses again. Not after last time ;). I respect your opinion.

Right, Wigan actually play nice football because of Martinez, he scored some good goals there too and was great in the u21's. Bolton were at the bottom of the league pretty much when Coyle took over from Megson so they were in exactly the same situation. He's a good good player but my point is i cant go over the top with him as he is not on the same level as a gotze/wilshire/thiago not yet. Maybe one day.. He will be a high 140 but in the 150's i cant beacsue of people like Henderson and Ramsey...if they were playing for utd would you want them to be that high? Probs, but they dont and there not that high and in terms of the game they have to be at about the same level. I guarentee Clev wont be a 150 on fm12. But i agree on the potential. 170 is good. If you want that as a fixed PA. Were talking about 5/6 points on the CA atm. Wilshire is as good as he is, because he bossed Barcelona's midfield. And actually looked good enough to be in the best team of all time. And i saw Bolton 5 or 6 times at the reebok that season and Wilshire was playing LW when it was Wenger who put him in CM in pre season and he started against liverpool there first game of last season when Joe Cole got sent off. Now i gotta get on with editing so wally can have it for the morning.

Apart from at Man Utd, is there anyone else you think merits an upgrade :)

Phil Jones shouldnt have fixed PA either, played 27 games last season. I'd set that to Smallings (168). Jonny Evans is a little high at 170, probably 165-6

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Ok well, that might need to be changed. But he has starred in Englands u17 teams. I'll take it on board. And that kid is a star.

No doubt he is a star in the making, but -10 makes him a godly player in the making

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Pav I think you'll find last time I was right :thup:

Why cant you rate Cleverley because of Henderson and Ramsey. For a start, what the hell has Ramsey done to deserve what he has? He was a -10 for how long? After doing what? Cleverley has done a lot more, and shown a lot more than Ramsey over the last 2 or 3 years. And again, Henderson? He did OK for Sunderland, Liverpool come in with a stupid offer, and now all of a sudden he's 'above' Cleverley? What exactly, in your opinion, has Henderson done that Cleverley hasnt?

You say you cant give him a 150+ but you can give him a high 140's? How much difference does that point between 149 and 150 make? themadsheep has given IMO spot on improvements, to actual attributes, that he needs improving on. This only puts him at a 151. A whole massive 2 points above your high 140's threshold. The said changes bringing him to 151 and the 170 PA you mentioned is spot on. I dont see the problem TBH. That would still have Cleverley at 170 and Wilshere at 185

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Whatever Steve your boring me now bud. You think clev is amazing as he is a man utd player. Thats my point. If Ramsey or Henderson played for Utd you would think they were amaing. Get it? Its called being objective. Jesus man. Give us a break. In non pa/ca updates he is still 125, if you wanna boost him after then fine but i'm doing this not just for man utd fans but for everyone else so if i say he's 145/170 thats what he will be. He wont be that high on fm12. Ross Barkley needs to be edited, thats fine thanks sheep. I'll defo lower evans pa as he wont get much better than he is.

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Whatever Steve your boring me now bud. You think clev is amazing as he is a man utd player. Thats my point. If Ramsey or Henderson played for Utd you would think they were amaing. Get it? Its called being objective. Jesus man. Give us a break. In non pa/ca updates he is still 125, if you wanna boost him after then fine but i'm doing this not just for man utd fans but for everyone else so if i say he's 145/170 thats what he will be. He wont be that high on fm12. Ross Barkley needs to be edited, thats fine thanks sheep. I'll defo lower evans pa as he wont get much better than he is.

In fairness you're being dismissive of what he said, its nothing to do with Ramsey or Henderson. I'm talking about specific attributes. Evans will get better than he is, just not 170, more 165. You seem very willing to cut United, and less so on improvements.

I can build a good case as to why i chose those specific rises, perfectly willing listen if you can say why he should be 145 max.

And im willing to bet he'll be very close to the increases i mentioned ;)

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Ah rite so, as im actually agreeing with what madsheep said, and not coming here with my own numbers, its me who has the problem. What planet are you on. We just want it as realistic as possible. Im not asking for the world. Ive actually not even asked for anything that shouldnt be done. Im agreeing with what madsheep has said, not like im saying he should be on par or better than Wilshere, just better than what he is now FFS. Can you not see that. Or do you have your 'Stevo is talking crap' tinted glasses on?

And my biggest gripe about Cleverley was his PA. If you change it to 170 thats fine, but like I said, in context to other players, he's simply not good enough. Its nothing to do with me being a United fan either, its just that, funnily enough, I happen to know more about United, so am in a better position to advise on the club and its players. A better position than you by the looks of it. Seeing as your using year old blogs for your debt info.

Look I respect everything you are doing, all I am doing is trying to advise on the thing I know most about. If you read my posts about this, me and themadsheep have been on the same wavelength. Does that make his opinion any less credible? Or is it just me you have the problem with?

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Also if I had my United glasses on, when I mentioned Smalling and playing at RB, If I was what you accuse me of being, I would be asking for him to be accomplished at RB and possible RWB from the way he's played there. But guess what, I was being realistic and said just make him competent there. The same with Evans. You said you was gonna change him to LB and I said leave him as he's already competent at LB. Or did you miss that bit Pav?

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Steve there is a reason you have 2 infractions, there must be. Look, im up at 3am doing an update and changes for lots of people, i got work 2morro. Give us a break, show some consideration..if you respect everything i'm doing. I've basically have done what you have asked. I really rate cleverly but my points are as valid as yours or sheep or anyone else. He's not as good as wiltshire, not yet.. he's slightly above ramsey and henderson. But not by lots and just because he is infront of Carrick at the moment dont mean he should be above him on the game to begin with in terms of ability. The guy has played loads for England and Man Utd. You play clev on he game and he will be better than your ando's and carricks/fletchers of this world. Neither one of us are bang on right thats why there opinions and not facts. Hey thats why people disagree with SI. Thats why people like MG dont do pa/ca changes cos of people like you. :mad:

And the finance blogs were a yr old on man utd but thats the most creditable football finance account website. My point was about the intrest you pay off. Anyways, you know a lot on Man Utd finances so i conceed on that one you done your research. I was wrong.

Dude, Just let me get on with it and if you see what i put earler is i wont have him as high as you said but he defo deserves another boost. WHATS WRONG WITH THAT. Case closed. Ive taken what you said on board and wil come to my own conclusion. Show some grattitude man. I didnt even say it in a bad way to begin with and you been waiting to jump down my throat. I even made a joke about andersons faces. And that if you play people like cleverly and welbeck then they get better and will play pretty damn well on the game. Just like fergie has in real lie. He took a chance. They got the shirt and they kept it. Thats where you say "Thanks pav for all your hard work bla bla bla he deserves a boost 4 sure ;)"

The difference between you and sheep is he seems ok and i get the impression he isnt a troll where i dont get that with you hence the infractions.

Your will never admit your wrong, i get that so i'll get back on with the update . Cheers.

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For a start I do admit im wrong. And when the time comes that I am infact wrong in this thread, I will gladly admit it. I made a point about Cleverley, themadsheep gave an opinion, I changed my opinion slightly from that and agreed. My infractions have nothing to do with this whatsoever. One of them is for an alias account I was using because of the Sega Pass mess-up. I now have my old account back but was still punished as I had technically broken the rules. Look Pav, you can brush it up as much as you want but its all here in black and white that I have done absolutely nothing wrong but you decided to jump on me. All I did was agree with themadsheep, and it turn out you agree also to a certain extent. So I dont understand your attitude towards me in your last couple of posts.

Ive only raised 2 issues in this thread, One Uniteds debt, where you initally accused me of having United glasses on, but now concede I was right. And Cleverley, which you now have conceded me and themadsheep have a point.

You say said he couldnt be 150+ because of players like Henderson and Ramsey, but you have just said "He's not as good as wiltshire, not yet.. he's slightly above ramsey and henderson". So basically you have had a go at me, again, then ended up agreeing, again. What exactly am I supposed to do?

I never said Cleverley was better than Carrick either, I said he's ARGUABLY keeping Carrick out of the team. Note I said arguably, not IS. Im not a troll either. I make 2 points, you say I have United-tinted glasses on, twice, dismiss my points but then later admit I/we was right. You really think im gonna let you slag me off and say im biased and not stick up for myself?

Anyway, point made. Glad you agree :thup: Good luck with the update :)

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only thing i would say is that from a neutral's point of view .... wilshere is already a country mile ahead of cleverley in terms of progress...

"Imagine Wilshere at Wigan last season, and doing what Cleverley did? I cant see it." .. this sums it up for me really... wilshere in a mediocre team would have bossed the midfield just as he has done in a top 4 team against world class opposition... everytime ive seen him play he's looked like a player 10 years his senior and a seasoned professional...

now, thats not to say i dont rate cleverley.... as you've pointed out robbo, he's had a fantastic pre season and has found himself in in the first team of the best team in england right now... i think he's a class player and will be a part of the team for a long time if given the chance..

that said.. he isnt anywhere near the player wilshere is or will be...

just a neutral's point of view based on the silly amount of playtime ive watched when i should have been doing something more constructive

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Fine Steve, i'm tired and didnt have to jump down your throat as much as i did. Or call you a troll. I dont know why you had infractions. It was out of order and we got off on the wrong foot as far as the debt goes. Your a passionate Utd fan and you will have a more educated opinion as far as Utd are concerned about a lot of things. Especially financially. It's probs because i dont like Man Utd fans. That me. Hence the tinted glasses comment and the big club bubble thing. Thats got nothing to do with you. Its a genralisation i put upon you. Which was wrong.You annoyed me more than you should have. And i bit. Thus the troll coment. So my bad. My thing in the updates is to take peoples opinions on board and be objective. Therefore i used the Ramsey and Henderson refrences as examples on where Clev actually is in his development. I gotta be objective fair and realistic not just to Utd fans but to Arsenal Liverpool West Brom Preston Burnley Bury Hereford whoever. I agreed about Clev from the beginning deserving a boost after a very constructive conversation between you and sheep. he is a good little player who has come on leaps and bounds. I have improved him again, all i was saying was i wasnt gonna put him exactly what you and sheep had said...and he is pretty good anyways you just have to play him. And that his PA defo deserves an increase. Where retrospectivley i could have just said "cheers lads i will have a look" But i didnt. I engaged in a conversation. Anyways. Lets move on. Imagine if Jacky boy never left Utd for Arsenal. Clev would be a good wigan player who liverpool would have just spent a fortune on ;)

On another note i've improved Rooney's freekicks.:thup:

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Fair point welshace. Wilshere is a good player, and obviously having a full year in the Arsenal team has helped his cause. Hoepfully Cleverley will get a good run of games this season and hopefully have the same kind of impact.

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Cheers for that Pav. Maybe its just me, maybe its how I write but I seem to rub people up the wrong way and im not sure why. I dont mean to. Same with Nick in the Utd issues thread. Ive said quite a lot in there that automatically gets dismissed by Nick, has a big old rant at me and guess who turns out to be right a lot of the time? Even though he'd never admit it so I respect you for that Pav.

Just a few things off the top of my head. The PIK debt I said to Nick shouldnt be in the game, as it wasnt Uniteds debt. The Glazers and David Gill both said no money from the club would be used to pay those of. Nick chooses to listen to crap from MUST and Andersred and has a big go at me about it. Then guess what happened? The Glazers pay off the PIK's, no money taken from the club, Nick deletes the PIK debt. So for 2 years of FM, United had a crippling debt that wasnt theirs all because he wouldnt listen to the guy actually running the club.

Man Utd's transfer budget was another one. Pretty much the same argument I had with you but last year. We had around £125m cash in the bank, which Gill said was earmarked for transfers. Nick gives us a budget of £17.5m when really it should have been around £40m IMO. Because Fergie didnt actually spend, and he read all the crap from MUST and Andersred again, he chose to believe them over the man running the club (Gill). Look what happens this year. Spending money, that was there all along, and still have around £130m in the bank.

And the best one of the lot, I said Nani's corner attribute needed lowering. Made a pretty damn good case too. But really anybody with half a brain that watches our games can see most end up in the first mans chest. Completely ignored me for ages, until somebody else raised the issue, then immediately responded and changed it. All the time only responding to parts of my posts he could have a go at.

But I guess as he's the researcher, he doesnt like being wrong, or being proven to be wrong, so in effect he doesnt really like me either :)

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Cheers for that Pav. Maybe its just me, maybe its how I write but I seem to rub people up the wrong way and im not sure why. I dont mean to. Same with Nick in the Utd issues thread. Ive said quite a lot in there that automatically gets dismissed by Nick, has a big old rant at me and guess who turns out to be right a lot of the time? Even though he'd never admit it so I respect you for that Pav.

Just a few things off the top of my head. The PIK debt I said to Nick shouldnt be in the game, as it wasnt Uniteds debt. The Glazers and David Gill both said no money from the club would be used to pay those of. Nick chooses to listen to crap from MUST and Andersred and has a big go at me about it. Then guess what happened? The Glazers pay off the PIK's, no money taken from the club, Nick deletes the PIK debt. So for 2 years of FM, United had a crippling debt that wasnt theirs all because he wouldnt listen to the guy actually running the club.

Man Utd's transfer budget was another one. Pretty much the same argument I had with you but last year. We had around £125m cash in the bank, which Gill said was earmarked for transfers. Nick gives us a budget of £17.5m when really it should have been around £40m IMO. Because Fergie didnt actually spend, and he read all the crap from MUST and Andersred again, he chose to believe them over the man running the club (Gill). Look what happens this year. Spending money, that was there all along, and still have around £130m in the bank.

And the best one of the lot, I said Nani's corner attribute needed lowering. Made a pretty damn good case too. But really anybody with half a brain that watches our games can see most end up in the first mans chest. Completely ignored me for ages, until somebody else raised the issue, then immediately responded and changed it. All the time only responding to parts of my posts he could have a go at.

But I guess as he's the researcher, he doesnt like being wrong, or being proven to be wrong, so in effect he doesnt really like me either :)

Lmao no worries. Its a horrible habbit being right. I should know ;).. I read what i put and realised i was being a bit daft. And you love your club so fair play. Dont mean i have to love em tho. Haha, still gotta be objective. Its hard being fair to everyone with the pa/ca changes i think thats why so many people avoid doing it in updates as it will cause arguments or discussions as i like to call them. Your just a bit forthright in your views, thats not a bad thing. I'm new to all this update malarky and its a pain in the **** at times. But like you i just wanted the game to be more realistic. Anways Keep contributing to the thread tho m8 and thanks for the response.

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I always get the impression that ca/pa changes perspective when you're managing the player. What I mean is that, If I was managing Utd, I wouldn't need Cleverley to have a 180pa, or Wellbeck to have a set PA, because I could make use of him as a -9 and turn him into a quality player, perhaps more quality than he actually is IRL. But if these are AI managed players, then it makes sense to give them what may be a slightly unjustified boost, just so they will actually get played in the game and not discarded into the reserves. In this case I don't mind them being boosted higher than they deserve because I know i'll only be managing Spurs(I'm giving Bale a decrease lol, I think the Spurs researcher went a bit OTT with the boost he got in patch 11.3).

PA is so subjective, and alot of guess work.

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