OriginalGrowler

Why is the english league so strong in Europe?

94 posts in this topic

[quote name='Beneamata']And the referees got their gifts from Juve in brown envelopes. Along with mobile phones from Moggi.

Thank God they're staying true to their origins.

[/QUOTE]

1) in a league where there has been frauded, there is no winner. the championship shouldn't be contributed to any club that season.
example:
its the last day of the season: juve and milan are ahead, but will be later on erased from the championship. Inter is 3rd with 1 point ahead on AS roma. Roma plays juve and inter let's say Empoli. Roma loses, because the ref had given 3 penaltys and 2 red cards, inter lose also, but they stay ahead. who should be champion? It's not because you erase 2 teams rom the table all the arranged matches are forgotten.

2) true to their origins? are you blind? Inter= italian club. any italian players in it except their second goalie and a hooligan who should be banned from football 5 years ago? no. Even their big new talent is half african.

waaruber menn nich spreken kann daaruber muss man schweigen. ( my german isn't that good)

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[quote name='T4RG4']
[B]4) Russia rising power undisputed[/B] - An obvious yes
If you mean it's becoming more prominent then yes, I would agree. It's not hard, with new found wealth, to raise the profile of a league long in the wilderness.
[/QUOTE]

Unless you play FM, then it's impossible :D

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[quote name='Micado']It is indead, like others mentioned, check the last 4 of each european cup over the last years and you will see al lot English clubs.
[/QUOTE]

The Uefa Cup shows a very different story, however.

From the last 5 years, only two English teams (Newcastle and Middlesborough) have made the last four. The former got knocked out at that stage, the latter got hammered in the final.

In fact, in the last 24 years, only a single English team has managed to win this competition (Liverpool), after dropping down from the Champions League.

The [url=http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2008.html]co-efficients[/url] also show a differently. England have only bettered Spain in club European competition twice in the last five years and are only marginally ahead in the rankings.

Now, I'm not saying that England are terrible in Europe, but it's not the dominant powerhouse that people believe it to be.

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[quote name='eXistenZ']1) in a league where there has been frauded, there is no winner. the championship shouldn't be contributed to any club that season.[/quote]

So, because a club/s has cheated nobody has to be a winner? What was the point of the other 19 (or 18, or 17, or whatever) clubs participating?

[quote]example:
its the last day of the season: juve and milan are ahead, but will be later on erased from the championship. Inter is 3rd with 1 point ahead on AS roma. Roma plays juve and inter let's say Empoli. Roma loses, because the ref had given 3 penaltys and 2 red cards, inter lose also, but they stay ahead. who should be champion? It's not because you erase 2 teams rom the table all the arranged matches are forgotten.[/quote]

Eh??

[quote]true to their origins? are you blind? Inter= italian club.[/quote]

You don't know your Inter history but that's not a big problem. Have you never wondered why they're called Internazionale?

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[quote name='Beneamata']
You don't know your Inter history but that's not a big problem. Have you never wondered why they're called Internazionale?[/QUOTE]

i guess the example was too difficult for you.

So you gonna say to me that inter is not an italian club? strange, they play in an italian city, play in a italian league, have a italian licence. how international is that? just because you have a stupid name (which it is because a club name is almost always bound to it's city or region) you can say " oh **** those italians. we play in their country, and so on, but why should we do anything for the national team?" does the word "principles" rings a bell with you?
I think if you play on FM with a team tht consist with some own youth players, you are proud.

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Twice or more, it's been said that Villa are sponsored for £1. They're not. They are actually paying Acorns. However, this cannot be put in FM, so they have the lowest sponsorship possible -£1.

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[quote name='eXistenZ']i guess the example was too difficult for you.[/quote]

I just didn't get any point to your exmple.

[quote]So you gonna say to me that inter is not an italian club? strange, they play in an italian city, play in a italian league, have a italian licence. how international is that? you can say " oh **** those italians. we play in their country, and so on, but why should we do anything for the national team?" does the word "principles" rings a bell with you?[/quote]

Before posting vitriol please research what you're opinionating on.

[quote]just because you have a stupid name (which it is because a club name is almost always bound to it's city or region)[/quote]

I guess there's lots of clubs with [B][I]stupid[/I][/B] names then. Meanwhile outside of kindergarden.......

[quote]I think if you play on FM with a team tht consist with some own youth players, you are proud.[/QUOTE]

Yes I do. And that's where I'll leave it my friend. Chill..........

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[quote name='Themistofelis']
Just 2 examples clearly showing Bundesliga having slightly better average attendances.
[/QUOTE]

Yup, those 18,000 being tossed around before are more like the average attendance of 2. Bundesliga. While 2. Bundesliga is a nice competition, don't get me wrong, It's a bit saddening to see that competing with the average attendance of the top-flights from Italy or France -- it's not like the numbers in these countries are dragged down by many a small club and small stadiums being in that league. A prolific club like Juventus [URL=http://bianconeri.tripod.com/fans2.html]has an average attendance of less than 30,000,[/URL] and that has nought to do with the size of the stadium.

That said, I'm a bit surprised that the average attendance of the Premier League is that high, given the ever-growing ticket prices at hand.

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[quote name='Beneamata']The F.I.G.C./Lega Calcio would differ - they would say Inter won the title and it was taken from dishonest Juve.

There is a commonly recited phrase regarding this issue - juventus won the title on the pitch. [B]They didn't[/B] - they [B]tried[/B] to win it in clandestine meetings and referees rooms.[/QUOTE]

Have you read the verdict?
All the allegations are complete bullshit.

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WOW lots of replies here :)

[B]Jimbokav1971[/B] Since all the others are matters of opinion i will only reply to 7 , what is already made clear is that base clubs will have to lose their most talented players at the age of 16 instead of the usual age of 19-20 ( there was already a case of a Roma youngster who got "stolen" by Man utd ) , also some French clubs "hide" their young players from first team football . What i dispute here is the ability of FIFA/UEFA to dictate roster policies on clubs , the whole idea of home growns vs foreigners is wrong .

[B]jsolloso[/B] this depends on the active leagues , play a game with only Italy & Spain active , after 6-7 years non active leagues are almost gone ( 07 & 08 checked while running hands off games )

[B]Svenc[/B] Italian league is boring, violence ridden , full of scandals ; not to mention political extremists recruiting children in the stands . On the other hand Bundesliga 2 is a game for the masses . Of course Germany as a country is boring and probably Germans have nothing better to do , Italy is a totally different case ....eh and Torino has more fans in the city than Juventus , most Juventus fans are located in the south .
In England looks like football is a game for the middle class , so their middle class must be really big .

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The effect of the coming recession are hard to wrap your head around. On the one hand, the amount of money available to the big leagues will fall, but so will the money for the smaller leagues. Some here say that Russia will become top dog in, say, 5 years time. But then again, I'm hearing reports that the Russian wealth is drying up quickly with the financial crisis combined with (relatively speaking) falling prices for oil. I've even heard speculation that Abramovich will have to give up his toy when the going gets tough.

Who knows which country and which league will hurt most. Though likely it will be the big name clubs with the big history that will remain on top, with the gap to teams with a worse sponsorship proposition rapidly growing.

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[quote name='Themistofelis']the English are in financial decline.[/QUOTE]

Except of course that the big spending English clubs are not owned by English people, they are from all over including, Saudi Arabia, Russia and the USA many of whom are so rich they are all but immune to the financial crisis.

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Your thread title question: "Why is the English league so strong in Europe? (In FM09)"

Your answer: "Because they are in real life and the game reflects that."

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Look at the UEFA Cup last night, all the English clubs won bar Portsmouth who drew with AC Milan, and even then AC only just won with two moments of sheer brilliance from Ronnie n' Inzaghi. City beat Schalke easily away, Tottenham beat NEC Nijmegan away so i don't think it's unrealistic for English clubs to be pushing the latter stages of the competition. In the past English clubs have fallen away in my opinion due to the attritional nature of the Premier League especially as it enters the latter stages where clubs are fighting over league positions and not over what they view as essentially a pointless Cup competition. This year and from now on it will be different in my eyes as the increased squads of the UEFA Cup English teams will mean they will be able to rotate with more consistent results, plus, teams such as Tottenham, Manchester City and Aston Villa are gagging for success, it won't be long 'til we see an English UEFA Cup winner.

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fair enough englands top 4 deserve to be doing well but when you see Bolton and Spurs winning UEFA cups you get worried

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OK in terms of Inter...
I understand their history, they broke away from Milan, yada yada yada, International team, whatever.

And you can say whatever, Juve won, Juve didn't, the fact remains Italy won the World Cup with an entire team based in their domestic league.

I just find it interesteing to note that Inter never were investigated. If anyone out there thinks clubs are pure and honest need to wake up. Clubs everywhere try to do what they can to win, whether it is try to influence referees, which I think is wrong and being a Juve fan, I agreed they deserved their fate and on top of that was glad to see the core of their team stay dsespite the scandal; or something that is somewhat legal, tampering players at other clubs to join them (see Cristiano Ronaldo).

The thing that I despise about Inter is their youth team is filled with a lot of youngsters that may play for the Italian national team, but none of them will stay because Inter wants to win right now with a bunch of over priced foreigners. I'm willing to put money on th eline that say, in two or three years when Inter continue to fail in their quest for the Champion's Legaue, Giraffe Boy (Ibra) will start to whine and complain he wants out, and some players will want to follow along. Their midfield isn't getting any younger and their back line is not the strongest ever. If they don't win the Champion's League now or next year, I don't see them doing well in a few years.

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[quote name='Svenc']Yup, those 18,000 being tossed around before are more like the average attendance of 2. Bundesliga. While 2. Bundesliga is a nice competition, don't get me wrong, It's a bit saddening to see that competing with the average attendance of the top-flights from Italy or France -- it's not like the numbers in these countries are dragged down by many a small club and small stadiums being in that league. A prolific club like Juventus [URL=http://bianconeri.tripod.com/fans2.html]has an average attendance of less than 30,000,[/URL] and that has nought to do with the size of the stadium.

That said, I'm a bit surprised that the average attendance of the Premier League is that high, given the ever-growing ticket prices at hand.[/QUOTE]
Actually, Juventus's stadium may have small attendances due to its size. The atmosphere at delle Alpi is awful due to the sheer size - this turns away any more potential fans. I think a much smaller stadium would attract more fans - although I suspect that the location at Turin poor anyway. However, a smaller delle Alpi would look a lot better, especially if they get rid of that infamous running track.

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[quote name='Trevomac']fair enough englands top 4 deserve to be doing well but when you see Bolton and Spurs winning UEFA cups you get worried[/QUOTE]

There is nothing wrong with the Spurs winning... and why would Bolton be so wrong? Espanyol got to the final IRL and they are far from being a great team...

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[quote name='aoede']have you read the verdict?
All the allegations are complete bullshit.[/quote]

[quote name='beneamata']that's where i'll leave it[/quote]

1010101010101010

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[quote name='Themistofelis']






speaking with several Frenchmen i 've got the idea that they think of the game as something the immigrants play , something for the low classes , of course i can be wrong.

.[/QUOTE]

What ever french people you speak to, i would have a word as that sentence is very offensive.
But lower classes.
Hmm i seem to think that in the majority of countries there are much more of the populous that rest out side the bracket of upper class.

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[quote name='Beneamata']1010101010101010[/QUOTE]

You should read up on it and see what you find. Everyone knows Inter are one of the biggest cheats in Italy.

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I wanted to go back to people question that English teams dont win the uefa cup. Well there is one thing that happens to lots of other countries, that doesnt happen to the English teams- they never get knocked out from the group stages and go into the Uefa cup this way.

This means that one of the BIG english teams doesnt end up in the competition.

Having said that - when you look a back at the rare occations when an english big team did end up outside of the champions league - 2000, 2001 there was an english runner up and an english winner.

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[quote name='dudester']Well over the last 4 years how many times have English sides been in the champs league final the game is currently mirroring the strength of the premier league.[/QUOTE]

no, it's mirroring the strength of top 4 in England, the league is far from the best

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[quote name='Kritik']no, it's mirroring the strength of top 4 in England, the league is far from the best[/QUOTE]

Is there any league atm that is "the best" then? (with actual interest...)

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[quote name='Maidel']I wanted to go back to people question that English teams dont win the uefa cup. Well there is one thing that happens to lots of other countries, that doesnt happen to the English teams- they never get knocked out from the group stages and go into the Uefa cup this way.

This means that one of the BIG english teams doesnt end up in the competition.

Having said that - when you look a back at the rare occations when an english big team did end up outside of the champions league - 2000, 2001 there was an english runner up and an english winner.[/QUOTE]
The English teams have been a bit unlucky these past few years. The main problem is that there's more fixtures in England with two Cups competed for - and a lot of squads that go to the UEFA Cup don't have big squads that can cope. Spurs this season are a bit of an exception, although against NEC, I think they had 11 players injured or ineligible.

Other examples are like Bolton, who never replaced Anelka and ended up going into the UEFA Cup with the threat of relegation. I think they put out a second-string side in a crucial UEFA Cup tie in order to focus on the Premiership. Everton are always a bit of a strange team - definitely good in the Premiership, but fairly hopeless in Europe.

While Spain has regulars in the UEFA Cup (Espanyol/Sevilla/Getafe), it's difficult to get a consistent set of teams in England - positions 4-10 are more often than not highly competitive. This season, it's going to get worse - with Spurs, Everton, Aston Villa, Manchester City and Portsmouth competing for the 5th place and in both Cups. There's very little room for consistent UEFA Cup appearances, something Espanyol get without too many problems. Consequently, teams can never really build for Europe without knowing if they can get there consistently.

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*Football* is a game for the masses. Maybe in some leagues it ain't anymore due to rising ticket prices, etc., but I doubt it that this affects anything but the absolute top flights -- nobody'd pay squid to go see a Wolverhampton - Swindon game (though it's a shame in many ways, mind you.)

[quote name='Themistofelis']
Of course Germany as a country is boring and probably Germans have nothing better to do [/QUOTE]

Every single tiny spot is just as boring as the one next to it, it just depends how long you've been living there I guess. :D

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[quote name='ScorpionSting']The major problem I see at the moment is the success of English clubs in the UEFA cup, since that just isn't happening. The Champions League though is fine, since all four of the big four in England have been regularly featured in at least the semi finals over the past few years.



I'd be very surprised if that idiocy ever got implemented, not only would it break EU employment laws, it would be very likely to cause some sort of major revolt from UEFA or at least the major clubs/leagues throughout Europe.[/QUOTE]

yeah i think the G14 or G13 whatever they are called will split from uefa if it goes ahead.

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OMG So riduculous that Fm would make the English teams strong!! Why would they do that? Its not like it was an all English champions league final last season with 3 English teams in the qauters?

Even in the Uefa cup the English teams have been strong over last few years i.e Middlesboro , and Ac milan scraping a draw against supposdly mid table Protsmouth. Just face reality mate the English League teams are stronger these days!

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[quote name='kopitelewis']yeah i think the G14 or G13 whatever they are called will split from uefa if it goes ahead.[/QUOTE]

Highly unlikely, maybe EPL will , but i wouldn't see that as major loss for football overall.

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[quote name='Barkermush']
..and Ac milan scraping a draw against supposdly mid table Portsmouth. Just face reality mate the English League teams are stronger these days![/QUOTE]

A Milan team without a lot of first team players - they don't prioritize uefa high this year, thats why it was a poor performance..well except the last 15 min after Ronaldinho, seedorf and pato came on.

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[quote name='Joor']A Milan team without a lot of first team players - they don't prioritize uefa high this year, thats why it was a poor performance..well except the last 15 min after Ronaldinho, seedorf and pato came on.[/QUOTE]

Anybody could have put 4+ past us with Dida in goal and Senderos in front of him.

A bunch of reserve rejects against a full strength Pompey team in a competition we've already qualified for, I mean honestly, really...............

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[quote name='Mike7077']I've always maintained that the biggest enemy of English football is not foreigners, but the English game itself. More specifically, it's the way we get our kids into it. Most successful nations focus on getting their kids working with the ball. They want them to learn to feel comfortable with it. But in England, right from the start, we're thrown into eleven-a-side matches on full size pitches and expected to "get stuck in". Very few players are going to develop technical ability with a start like that.[/QUOTE]

I totaly agree with this. I was once told to stop playing football and just get rid of it by one of my coaches!

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[quote name='kopitelewis']yeah i think the G14 or G13 whatever they are called will split from uefa if it goes ahead.[/QUOTE]

G14 disbanded in February of this year.

The Milan team was a bit lightweight on Thursday. Emerson? - I'd forgotten all about him LOL.

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OP - "Why is the english league so strong in Europe?"

Answer - Because the English league is so strong in Europe.

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[quote name='TeeWee']The effect of the coming recession are hard to wrap your head around. On the one hand, the amount of money available to the big leagues will fall, but so will the money for the smaller leagues. Some here say that Russia will become top dog in, say, 5 years time. But then again, I'm hearing reports that the Russian wealth is drying up quickly with the financial crisis combined with (relatively speaking) falling prices for oil. I've even heard speculation that Abramovich will have to give up his toy when the going gets tough.

Who knows which country and which league will hurt most. Though likely it will be the big name clubs with the big history that will remain on top, with the gap to teams with a worse sponsorship proposition rapidly growing.[/QUOTE]
I'd tend to disagree with that.

The bigger teams have racked up huge debts of hundreds of millions of pounds. Smaller teams, however, if they have debts, they'll be much much smaller. If a bank loaned €10M to Manchester United and €10k to Havant & Waterlooville, it's an easy guess to see which one they'll prioritise and which one they wouldn't be too unhappy about going down as bad debts.

Also, there's the ticket prices. The bigger teams have very expensive ticket prices and I feel they'll see a fall in attendance. To keep these attendances, they'll have to slash prices. Meanwhile, the smaller teams' ticket prices are relatively cheap anyway and even if they do cut prices, it won't be as much as the bigger teams. Also, they may see a rise in attendances, from people who used go to matches of bigger clubs, but can no longer afford it.

[quote name='Maidel']I wanted to go back to people question that English teams dont win the uefa cup. Well there is one thing that happens to lots of other countries, that doesnt happen to the English teams- they never get knocked out from the group stages and go into the Uefa cup this way.

This means that one of the BIG english teams doesnt end up in the competition.

Having said that - when you look a back at the rare occations when an english big team did end up outside of the champions league - 2000, 2001 there was an english runner up and an english winner.[/QUOTE]
Funnily enough, the last time (that I can remember, anyway) that an English team got knocked out in the group stages (Man Utd), they ended up finishing bottom of the group and out of Europe altogether. If they had been in the Uefa Cup, they'd probably have gotten far.

[quote name='Barkermush']OMG So riduculous that Fm would make the English teams strong!! Why would they do that? Its not like it was an all English champions league final last season with 3 English teams in the qauters?

Even in the Uefa cup the English teams have been strong over last few years i.e Middlesboro , and Ac milan scraping a draw against supposdly mid table Protsmouth. Just face reality mate the English League teams are stronger these days![/QUOTE]
I think you'll actually find that the English teams have had a poor return in this competition. One winner in the last 24 years. Even with Middlesborough as an example, they got hammered 4-0 in the final.

I think that the English teams overachieving in the Uefa Cup this season is showing the gulf between the "Big 4" in the Premier LEagie being reduced. I'd say that the English teams in the Uefa Cup will do well this season, but the ones in the Champions League will do worse than last season.

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OK, I am not a European, so that may bias my opinions. As an American expat living in China, I find the arguments on protectionism strange. It seems to me that if you're going to have the E.U., then don't fight it. If you're not, then don't.

Blatter's 6+5 rule just doesn't make sense for a bunch of countries that are trying to fuse together as one federation. Seems to me if the borders of trade aren't opened up, then what's the point of the E.U. in the first place?

It is true that Italians won the world cup with a squad full of Italian domestic leaguers. They also won the World Cup with a series of highly questionable refereeing decisions (e.g., game against Australia, anyone?), and could quite easily have lost it if the referees didn't give them a foul every time they fall down and cry when no one is near them. So, my point is, I'd say that the bit about players in domestic leagues is as much coincidence as anything else.

What I find strange is why the English press are the ones complaining about this. If you're complaining that young English players can't get to be world class because they lose training places in EPL youth academies to Africans, continental Europeans and others, then I have to ask: are they good enough? Surely if they were good enough, they wouldn't lose their places? Furthermore, why is it that players from other countries routinely move in order to find a good situation, and English players don't/can't?

My point is...maybe the Premier League is the cream of the crop at the moment. Fair enough. Why can't young English up-and-comers who aren't quite good enough go ply their trade elsewhere if they can't find a place in the EPL? I'm sure they could find great training facilities in France, Germany, Spain, etc. There are good second-tier leagues in the Netherlands, Greece, Turkey, Portugal, the USA, etc. where they could probably find starting places and make names for themselves...and come back to England when they can handle it.

It's really a dual-edged sword. The best league in the world is going to be the one that is the most open to players. No one country has a monopoly on great footballers; it's too much of a world game. So, if you want the best league, then you need to be open to the best players, regardless of where they come from. If you want an "OK" league, then close it down and make it majority English.

England's failure at the world level, IMO, has more to do with other things. Team tactics, the Gerrard/Lampard situation, team chemistry, the quality of England's goalkeepers. That last one is particularly interesting; I say that because in competitions like the World Cup, the best team doesn't necessarily win. Anything can happen in a single-game elimination tournament; it comes down to good bounces of the ball, moments of singular inspiration and so on. Can anyone here honestly say with a straight face that England has goalkeepers of the level of Buffon? Lehmann/Kahn (from a few years ago)? I don't think so...and one brilliant save from a goalkeeper is enough to keep you in a competition. I noticed this in 2002, when the USA went to the quarterfinals of the World Cup, basically because of one thing: Brad Friedel. Anyway at the moment Cappello has England firing on all cylinders; hopefully for you it'll stay that way.

Enough rambling, but I close with this. The world's economy is global now, whether you like it or not. Fighting against that with protectionism is a losing battle, and will only hurt these leagues in the long-term. Better for England (and everyone else) to figure out how to prosper in that environment. The country that does that is the one who will win World Cups in the future.

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[quote name='suzerain']OK, I am not a European, so that may bias my opinions. As an American expat living in China, I find the arguments on protectionism strange. It seems to me that if you're going to have the E.U., then don't fight it. If you're not, then don't.

Blatter's 6+5 rule just doesn't make sense for a bunch of countries that are trying to fuse together as one federation. Seems to me if the borders of trade aren't opened up, then what's the point of the E.U. in the first place?

It is true that Italians won the world cup with a squad full of Italian domestic leaguers. They also won the World Cup with a series of highly questionable refereeing decisions (e.g., game against Australia, anyone?), and could quite easily have lost it if the referees didn't give them a foul every time they fall down and cry when no one is near them. So, my point is, I'd say that the bit about players in domestic leagues is as much coincidence as anything else.

What I find strange is why the English press are the ones complaining about this. If you're complaining that young English players can't get to be world class because they lose training places in EPL youth academies to Africans, continental Europeans and others, then I have to ask: are they good enough? Surely if they were good enough, they wouldn't lose their places? Furthermore, why is it that players from other countries routinely move in order to find a good situation, and English players don't/can't?

My point is...maybe the Premier League is the cream of the crop at the moment. Fair enough. Why can't young English up-and-comers who aren't quite good enough go ply their trade elsewhere if they can't find a place in the EPL? I'm sure they could find great training facilities in France, Germany, Spain, etc. There are good second-tier leagues in the Netherlands, Greece, Turkey, Portugal, the USA, etc. where they could probably find starting places and make names for themselves...and come back to England when they can handle it.

It's really a dual-edged sword. The best league in the world is going to be the one that is the most open to players. No one country has a monopoly on great footballers; it's too much of a world game. So, if you want the best league, then you need to be open to the best players, regardless of where they come from. If you want an "OK" league, then close it down and make it majority English.

England's failure at the world level, IMO, has more to do with other things. Team tactics, the Gerrard/Lampard situation, team chemistry, the quality of England's goalkeepers. That last one is particularly interesting; I say that because in competitions like the World Cup, the best team doesn't necessarily win. Anything can happen in a single-game elimination tournament; it comes down to good bounces of the ball, moments of singular inspiration and so on. Can anyone here honestly say with a straight face that England has goalkeepers of the level of Buffon? Lehmann/Kahn (from a few years ago)? I don't think so...and one brilliant save from a goalkeeper is enough to keep you in a competition. I noticed this in 2002, when the USA went to the quarterfinals of the World Cup, basically because of one thing: Brad Friedel. Anyway at the moment Cappello has England firing on all cylinders; hopefully for you it'll stay that way.

[/QUOTE]

Why would the english press be mad about it? maybe because the missed the EC?

Italy has wn the WC deserved. The mtch against australia was a group match so not as important as a quarter final. you have forgotten what S-korea got in 2002? they had three matches they should have lost.

You think english players are bad? england has about 3x the population of the netherlands, a country which has some great talents. like van der vaart, sneider, van nistelrooy. it's just logical that there are also good player in england.
English players are not bad. you are naive. african players are just cheap. and the most new owners of the english clubs are people who want to make money and don't know anything of football

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Nobody seems to have mentioned in the 6+5 debate that Aston Villa are likely to be in the Champions League next season and have already shown they can send out a team-beating 11 man english squad.

I think the CL homegrown system should be adopted in the PL, though. As much as i hate Arsenal, He's done more for young football than any team since West Ham or Boca Juniors.

EDIT: @Above: [quote]You think english players are bad? england has about 3x the population of the netherlands, a country which has some great talents. like van der vaart, sneider, van nistelrooy. it's just logical that there are also good player in england.
English players are not bad. you are naive. african players are just cheap. and the most new owners of the english clubs are people who want to make money and don't know anything of football[/quote]

For starters, African players have the raw talent for the same reason brazillians do. Football is sometimes all they have, from a very early age. Every single day, and they have the enjoyment and passion. Anyone remember when Ronaldinho used to still ave that huge grin on his face everytime he skilled someone? He didn't even care who it was, He just did it for his own pleasure as that's what people from those kind of countries are like.

I know I'm stereotyping, but i doubt you'd find any Brazillian or African superstar that didn't come from slums. We just don't have that here. Look outside OUR windows and you just see idiot kids throwing bricks. Like i was saying about the Aston Villa set up a minute ago, There ARE great players playing in England. The Germany win demostrates that, i think, even though they missed three or four big names, we didn't have any bar Terry.

The Man City situation worries me, too. Look how great SWP and Ireland are playing. If Kaka comes in, that all ends.

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[quote name='OriginalGrowler']Its getting silly now. they were dominant in FM08, but come on, tone it down a little. Every season its arsenal, chelsea, man u or liverpool. I had to go into the editor and reduce the co-efficients just to make it a little bit of a challenge.

And its just the champions league its the UEFA cup too.[/QUOTE]


how did u edit it ?

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[quote name='eXistenZ']
Italy has wn the WC deserved. The mtch against australia was a group match so not as important as a quarter final. y[/QUOTE]

No, it wasn't. Round of last 16. Regardless, talking about this match, Australia never looked like scoring, even against an Italy that was reduced to a squad of ten for practically the entire second half. A heart-breaking way to go out for sure, but let's not make this sound as if Italy were at the brink of defeat. Traditionally, their defense and organization in particular was mostly immense during Summer of 2006, and up-front they had the guys to score the goals needed to progress. Cannavaro was THE player of Germany 2006 by a billion miles, if you ask me.

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Italy may not look like they were about to lose, but they never got so close to losing as they did against the Aussies

Regarding the thread, I think the game is just trying to emulate real life. IRL, English clubs are dominating so that's what we see happening in FM. It's considerably easier to play an English club than it is to play Italian or Spanish clubs in general.

I think the problem is that the domination goes on too far. Not too long ago, there were three Italian sides in the semi finals. But in the game, English clubs can dominate for a whole decade especially if you're playing the English league.

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Didn't the English clubs win seven European Cups in eight years a few decades ago? One country's league can dominate for a long time.

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[quote name='Micado']Spain is one of them, Italy also (iirc). For the UK they (the non EU) needs a workpermit.

In Holland theire is no limit what so ever for fielding NON EU players.[/QUOTE]

Yes, then again NON EU players have a large minimum wage. So in Holland having NON EU players is limited, but in a more indirect way.

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England, English clubs and English players have always been vastly overrated in CM/FM and always will be. Simply one of those facts of life. Not something that's ever going to change. Just get on with life :)

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