too few shots on goal - the proof

[Wakers]

^ But the current one on ones tend to come from long punts, which is hopefully going to be addressed.

[Äktsjon Männ]

^ But the current one on ones tend to come from long punts, which is hopefully going to be addressed.

Good point, however when the long punt one on ones are replaced with through ball one on ones we'd still get the same shot count.

I'm of the opinion that the root of all problems in the ME is defending. Marking has never really worked in any FM and it's not great in 09 either. If defenders weren't inept all the long shots would seem more logical and clean one on ones would be rare as they are IRL. This in turn would require creativity by the attacking players to break down defenses resulting in realistic looking goals.

[Avelives]

I am starting to think the same thing.

The ME in 09 is definately an improvement on previous versions but it seems the defence is the root of all the problems, they get generally higher ratings than all the other areas of the pitch and it sometimes seems like the ME has to make them make serious errors in order to get shots at goal, the route 1 ball from the goalie is a prime example.

They happily cut out chipped and grounded through balls all game even from top draw play makers yet they get undone by a simple massive hoofed long ball from the goalie.

I dont think its so much the ME which is the problem its the defenders and how they play, sometimes they are like brick walls all game then they let through the most feeble easy attack which requires no skill at all.

[DJ68Alkmaar]

I definitely think that tackling is an issue here. I've never witnessed so many successful tackles by central defenders in any previous version, and this has to be having an effect on overall shots on goal and the nature of the shots taken. Dominant central defenders will inevitably lead to more long range shots and also reduce the amount of frantic goal mouth action which can quickly generate shots on goal. The game clock may also be a factor but I have yet to seriously monitor this. Once thing is for sure though, even taking blocked shots into account I think the game stats are a little out and tackling seems like a likely culprit. Even average central defenders are winning 10, 11, 12 tackles a match in my game.....that can't be right......

[Nomis07]

Stupid question, but what is a PKM?

I haven't noticed too many shots or too few, but have noticed the post/crossbar being hit too often. Altintop hit the post 6 times in one match for me.

[Wakers]

Completely agree about defenders. They are all completely incompetent when it comes to marking and positioning, regardless of stats.

[FMstoleMYgirlfriend]

its obviously just you as the manager. At the start in my rangers game i was struggling but now 10 games into the season i average 10 shots a game which is quite good.

you need to try altering ur tactics more, maybe ur just not that good a manager.

[Bromley Raven]

This seems quite interesting and the SI guys to seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Many many people are comlaining that long shots are too frequent, (I'm not personally experiencing this), but I am experiencing too many shots hitting the woodwork, (more shots hitting woodwork than goals being scored).

If SI increase the number of shots, but keep the number of goals the same, then how long will it be before the dreaded "Superkeeper" threads start to resurface.

If we also take into account the many complaints thet people are making that there are too many opportunities from long punts by the Def/GK, (that is under review), then the SOG is likely to be reduced still further.

Maybe a reduction in the number of chances created by a long punt downfield and an increase in the number of long shots might be the answer.

I suppose it's a bit of a balancing act.

What SI need to do (and they may already do this to an extent) is measure real life metrics such as:

shots on target (outside box - goal)

shots on target (outside box - saved)

shot hits woodwork (outside box)

shot off target (outside box)

shot blocked (outside box)

shots on target (inside box - goal)

shots on target (inside box - saved)

shot hits woodwork (inside box)

shot off target (inside box)

shot blocked (inside box)

they could also take other things into account such as proximity of defenders, whether the ball is under control, etc.

When the real life stats are collected they then form parts of the test script. i.e. the ME passes testing if and only if the game stats fall within an acceptable range (a statistician could say what this is) of the real stats.

This would be done for passing, tackling, player positioning, etc, as well as shots.

The test should be done with teams in various divisions and for good/medium/bad teams within the division.

This is the only way to get realism and then SI can counter any complaints with stats backing themselves.

[Wakers]

its obviously just you as the manager. At the start in my rangers game i was struggling but now 10 games into the season i average 10 shots a game which is quite good.

you need to try altering ur tactics more, maybe ur just not that good a manager.

It's nothing to do with tactics.

[Nomis07]

Wakers, if you toned it down a bit and stuck to the intelligent posts (most of the time you post stuff that is intereting) you'd be a good forum member, you let yourself down with comments like that though. No point in getting banned

[pbrover62]

go away. its clearly a problem, even if you are too ignorant to notice it.

I am playing the game daily and i am winning games between 4-0 and 10-0 oh yes i am managing Man Utd inluding promoting several reserves,I have in my second season won the premiership,FA cup,League cup and Champions cup,beating Milan 6-1 in the final.I think the secret is keeping your players fit and happy.

[Ryknow]

To be honest this really annoyed me in my first few games, only because I was so used to FM08.

I believe it reflects real life more this year. After just finishing my first season with Rangers Ive enjoyed it the most out of playing a whole career in FM08. Just because wins are so much sweeter and goals are a reason for celebration. Started the season badly and complained about FM09, then stuck with it and went on a 20 game winning streak to win the league.

Just watching football on tv and you notice that some games nothing really happens. The teams have a few shots and only some of them are on goal.

[Wakers]

I am playing the game daily and i am winning games between 4-0 and 10-0 oh yes i am managing Man Utd inluding promoting several reserves,I have in my second season won the premiership,FA cup,League cup and Champions cup,beating Milan 6-1 in the final.I think the secret is keeping your players fit and happy.

That would be because you;re playing with Man U. The game is pretty easy for anyone playing as them.

[Avelives]

To be honest this really annoyed me in my first few games, only because I was so used to FM08.

I believe it reflects real life more this year. After just finishing my first season with Rangers Ive enjoyed it the most out of playing a whole career in FM08. Just because wins are so much sweeter and goals are a reason for celebration. Started the season badly and complained about FM09, then stuck with it and went on a 20 game winning streak to win the league.

Just watching football on tv and you notice that some games nothing really happens. The teams have a few shots and only some of them are on goal.

Thats a fair point, god ive watched enough bore draws between chelsea and liverpool to last me a lifetime (during the Mourinho years mainly) those games were like watching paint dry and yet on paper they should have been thrillers.

I think (as also noted in a thread about difficulty) that this years FM is perhaps so close to real life that 'some' of the fun has been removed.

Im not saying its a bad game, i love it so far and while id choose the realism of this of Fifa manager any day i do think maybe the ME needs a bit of a tweak to allow for more dynamic forward play.

[Wakers]

I don't think we can call the game too close to realistic when central defenders with the abundant technical ability of john terry and wes brown are scoring from 35 yards multiple times a season.

[Socdk]

*cough cough* tactics *cough*

[Wakers]

*cough cough* tactics *cough*

move along please.

[Chochip]

I don't get this mentality of trying to strictly keep the average number of goals being scored down to a certain value. I get the point that FM08 had way too many high scores and it needed to come down. But this seems like the wrong way to go about it.

I mean, why should the easy scoring chances be punished just for the sake of regulating the average goal?

Do you guys actually realise how unrealistic it is for a team to hit the post even at least once every second game?

(atm in fm09 it's more like every game actually)

If a team irl hits the woodwork even once for every game, that team would be labelled as the the the the most unlucky team! Think about it.

If you are neutral fan, you might feel more excited to watch a shot hit the post, but if you are the diehard fan or the player or the manager of the team you would feel so dirty and cheated about it. The latter is how most people feel when they see their team hitting the woodwork so often. And even more so for a game, because you know that this is not just a coincidence but someone has written a code so that a certain percentage of shots would hit the woodwork. (and would feel that this percentage is too high, but can hardly do anything about it.)

Fair enough not all easy chances should turn into goals but the problem is that 'the degree of easiness' in the goal chances are quite frequently ignored and they all seem to have the same percentage of chance to miss.

Example: a right footed striker positions himself just slightly to the left of the goal and gets a perfect 1:1 chance with no defenders around and the keeper hasn't even come out. In the context of top division football, how often would this result in a goal? I would say at least 70%. In the case of not scoring, how many times would this result in simply kicking directly to the keeper for a safe save? Almost never. How often would they hit the woodwork? No one would be even remotely expecting it to happen because it's so rare.

that's just my thoughts..

[Wakers]

I don't get this mentality of trying to strictly keep the average number of goals being scored down to a certain value. I get the point that FM08 had way too many high scores and it needed to come down. But this seems like the wrong way to go about it.

I mean, why should the easy scoring chances be punished just for the sake of regulating the average goal?

Do you guys actually realise how unrealistic it is for a team to hit the post even at least once every second game?

(atm in fm09 it's more like every game actually)

If a team irl hits the woodwork even once for every game, that team would be labelled as the the the the most unlucky team! Think about it.

If you are neutral fan, you might feel more excited to watch a shot hit the post, but if you are the diehard fan or the player or the manager of the team you would feel so dirty and cheated about it. The latter is how most people feel when they see their team hitting the woodwork so often. And even more so for a game, because you know that this is not just a coincidence but someone has written a code so that a certain percentage of shots would hit the woodwork. (and would feel that this percentage is too high, but can hardly do anything about it.)

Fair enough not all easy chances should turn into goals but the problem is that 'the degree of easiness' in the goal chances are quite frequently ignored and they all seem to have the same percentage of chance to miss.

Example: a right footed striker positions himself just slightly to the left of the goal and gets a perfect 1:1 chance with no defenders around and the keeper hasn't even come out. In the context of top division football, how often would this result in a goal? I would say at least 70%. In the case of not scoring, how many times would this result in simply kicking directly to the keeper for a safe save? Almost never. How often would they hit the woodwork? No one would be even remotely expecting it to happen because it's so rare.

that's just my thoughts..

I agree with what you said.

However there's a striker at Liverpool called Robbie Keane who tends to do this a lot

[Bigwig]

You can see the unwinnable situation here. If SOG go up by 6-10 per match, yet scorelines remain the same (and scorelines are pretty much spot on), we will get dual complaints of:

1: Too many long shots

2: Players missing 'easy' scoring opportunities

A few people have made a similar point to this now but I don’t think it’s as clear-cut.

It seems in FM that there are only two types of chances created in the game, long-range efforts or ‘easy’ scoring opportunities which certainly isn’t the case in reality. In FM you don’t really see many half chances where players have shot on instinct, on the half volley or on the turn.

The amount of long shots might not be so bad if there was some variation in either the players taking them or the circumstances in which they occur. At the moment the majority of long shots seem to come from central midfielders who don’t have a decent passing option so go for goal. While this is perfectly plausible, I don’t think that FM quite has the balance right.

In reality there are a number of occasions which would result in long shots such as

· Goalkeeper punching the ball clear which falls to player standing outside area who hits it first time

· Corner cleared to player just outside area who again hits it first time

· Winger cutting inside and squaring the ball to a midfielder who’ll have a pot-shot

· Ball played up to striker with back to goal who will play the ball backwards to a team mate who will hit it first time

· Player with ball outside area will dip a shoulder sending the defender one way while he shifts the ball the other and has a long range effort

There are probably a load of other examples, but in my experience in FM the majority of long shots seem to come form the central midfielder having the ball outside the area, turning several times to pick out a passing option, not seeing one so having a long range effort. Like I said, this isn’t a problem as it does happen, but there are several other occurances which don’t seem to be represented as much.

[Wakers]

A few people have made a similar point to this now but I don’t think it’s as clear-cut.

It seems in FM that there are only two types of chances created in the game, long-range efforts or ‘easy’ scoring opportunities which certainly isn’t the case in reality. In FM you don’t really see many half chances where players have shot on instinct, on the half volley or on the turn.

The amount of long shots might not be so bad if there was some variation in either the players taking them or the circumstances in which they occur. At the moment the majority of long shots seem to come from central midfielders who don’t have a decent passing option so go for goal. While this is perfectly plausible, I don’t think that FM quite has the balance right.

In reality there are a number of occasions which would result in long shots such as

· Goalkeeper punching the ball clear which falls to player standing outside area who hits it first time

· Corner cleared to player just outside area who again hits it first time

· Winger cutting inside and squaring the ball to a midfielder who’ll have a pot-shot

· Ball played up to striker with back to goal who will play the ball backwards to a team mate who will hit it first time

· Player with ball outside area will dip a shoulder sending the defender one way while he shifts the ball the other and has a long range effort

There are probably a load of other examples, but in my experience in FM the majority of long shots seem to come form the central midfielder having the ball outside the area, turning several times to pick out a passing option, not seeing one so having a long range effort. Like I said, this isn’t a problem as it does happen, but there are several other occurances which don’t seem to be represented as much.

Good points, I don't recall seeing any of the situations you listed there in FM09