The Realism Thread

[Junkhead]

Over the last few weeks there seems to have been a lot of discussion about the limitations of the game when it comes to realism. Some players have said they find the game too simple, whilst others are trying to play realistically but can't due to the limitations of the game.  As a serial lurker, it's resulted in me suddenly being far more active on the forums because it's something that is close to my heart.

I try to play as realistically as possible at all times. When I load my save, I am no longer a bloke sat in his pants surrounded by three day old takeaway and empty beer cans. I am a football manager. In the dugout. In the dressing room. Sat opposite a chairman who cannot quite believe he has made the mistake of hiring me.  Because I am awful. I've been playing the game since the very first Championship Manager and have owned almost all versions, but I'm still rubbish.

Part of the reason for that is because my main aim in the game is to play realistically instead of winning at all costs. I have no doubt that this seems crazy to some, however for me it really is the taking part that counts, not just the winning.

There used to be an area of the forums for lower league managers that was quite strict on realism, and that is where I first really thought about how I played. I adopted most of those rules, and still use them to this day. I know some of the regular users of that area of the forum are still about, but most no longer post.

Having been contacted by a couple of people on DM about "realistic" play, I decided to log this thread so that it can be discussed. My hope is that the thread is visited by people who play in a similar way to me, people who play the LLaMa way, those who are interested in giving it a go, and those who aren't sure what is realistic or not. It's all fine. It isn't for everyone though, and if it isn't for you and you visit, then that's fine too - just say hi and move on 

 

The Rules

My main concern is that people have fun with their game. It's not my job to set rules for the forum or thread, and for me this thread is about bringing people together. I will not tell you that you are not welcome to come and post here if you do certain things. That has been done on these forums before and it didn't end well.

I do have some requests, however;

1- Player naming - if you find a cracking player or hidden gem then feel free to share it in the Good Player & Team area of the forum. But please try to avoid player naming here if possible. If you update us on your saves, just saying "tall striker" is enough so that those who want to know his name can work it out. Maybe they will DM you. However some of us like to find these hidden gems ourselves, so would prefer you didn't share names.

2- General tipping - there are lots of areas of the forum where you can get help on tactics and players, etc. We are interested in your progress, your mistakes, your saves and your thoughts. If you need help from someone as bad as me you're struggling. The point of playing realistically is to learn as you go. Please don't tell someone who is struggling how to resolve it within the thread. Offer to help in DM. They might be grateful but some of us want to work out way around things ourselves.

3- Bugs/overpowered stuff/glitches - as realistically as we want to play, this is a game. Sometimes it will do things which remind us of that. If you get a job offer which you believe isn't realistic, please let the developer know in the bugs forum and make your own decision on if to take it or not and carry on with your save. I wouldn't take it, but it's up to you. 

 

And that's it. I am fully prepared for this thread to disappear forever with zero responses, but I hope it doesn't. I hope some of you will find that playing like this reignites your passion for the game, and I'm looking forward to hearing about people's successes and failures as we go 👍👍

Edited October 13, 2021 by Junkhead
Changed title

[Junkhead]

Here are some things I do to keep my game "realistic". These are not the rules of this thread. They are rules based on my personal opinion. Feel free to steal them.

- I tend to start unemployed because that's realistic. I am not likely to be offered a job as a football manager any time soon. If I want to manage in a specific division, I will look first at clubs with no manager. Kicking someone else out to take over is a last resort.
- I sometimes use @Brother Ben's excellent lower league team picker which can now be found at https://www.the9llamas.com/llmpicker21
- I have, in real life, a qualification which translates into coaching. So I give myself the first coaching badge. I was awful at football, so I choose Sunday league experience.
- Usually I play as myself. Sometimes I create an alternative name and nationality. I keep experience the same.
- I almost always start in the lowest available division. If I don't, and choose to start higher up, I keep my experience low to make it harder. I still stick by all of my other rules.
- I only sign players I have come across in the game world.  Mainly thats because my scouts have found them, or because my team has played against them. Favoured staff of my players are fair game, as are players that come up in the rumour sections of the social media part of the game or other news items. No player search though, ever. And CERTAINLY no wonderkid lists or visits to the good player forum.
- I tend to advertise for staff. Not always, but generally. 
- When I first join a club, my board are responsible for hiring and firing my DOF. If I don't like him or think he's rubbish - tough. If I'm there for ages and do well, I might take control at a time when I believe the board would allow it.
- I do not carry tactics over from other saves and never download them. Same with training. Any successes or mistakes I make are mine. Each team and situation is unique, so each tactic is also.
- If I manage in the same division twice on the same version, I use fake players so I don't recognize names.
- if I am offered a job or interview that I feel is unrealistic, I reject it. 
- I don't "game" the interactions, be it player interactions, board or press conversations or team talks. I try to do what I would actually do in reality. 
- I do use editor files, but am VERY selective. Things like @majesticeternity's brilliant weather and injuries file adds lots to the realism side of the game, and @Daveincid puts together a great youth rating file too. 

- I will also add playable leagues, but obviously I need real rules. Quality over quantity for me. I would rather a new playable country with one perfect division than a much deeper pyramid with no detail.
- I sign a realistic amount of players each window. Not an entire new squad.

 

- If anyone is interested in this play style, or the history of LLM, you might enjoy some of the discussion at https://lowerleaguemanager.xyz/

 

Hopefully this will help anyone interested who doesn't know where to start. Again though, these are MY rules, they do not have to be yours. I would have been eaten alive on the LLM forum for using editor files 😂 

If you want to join in but are not sure how to set your game up in a way to maximize realism, head over to this thread where there is loads of detailed explanation!

https://community.sigames.com/topic/535530-guide-how-to-set-up-an-optimal-database-for-a-balanced-savegame-updated-26-nov-2020/

Edited August 26, 2021 by Junkhead
Updated content

[Daveincid]

Thank you for the thread! I think it's a good idea to have a place with that focus.

There is something where I would love to hear other views iof you guys. How do you manage transfers at your club? Do you buy players, which you know they will develop into world-beaters, even if this wouldn't happen with the club in reality? Do you spend much higher salary or money on players than it would happen IRL? When I play with Basel, I always try to be +/- at the wage-budget the club spends at the beginning. If a player want's a much higher salary, it's time to say good bye

Cheers

Daveincid

[majesticeternity]

5 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

How do you manage transfers at your club? Do you buy players, which you know they will develop into world-beaters, even if this wouldn't happen with the club in reality? Do you spend much higher salary or money on players than it would happen IRL? When I play with Basel, I always try to be +/- at the wage-budget the club spends at the beginning. If a player want's a much higher salary, it's time to say good bye

I play in very low leagues. I first determine what positions I need players for. Set a limit of something around 2 players for first team, 2-4 players for subs/rotation/cups. Then skip the scouting cards screen, as it seems to give way too good players. I picked a few up from those cards originally, and they were great players, obscure in reputation(maybe with higher ambition, so they offered their services, over other players??)

So now I go to the player search. Tick Interested in Transfer. Take a look at the highest reputation players available. The theory is that I'm more likely to know of these players, than some random very obscure player on some Level 10 team.

Then, for each position, I choose a handful that look interesting, based only on things like their height, age, positions, and stats for the past season. Add them to the shortlist. No scouting. I also play with masked attribute skin where I can only see colors for ranges, and especially for other players, I see very little "accurate" info. So I can only "guess" or "feel" if their attributes and setup would be good.

Then, I bite the bullet and sign 1 of the 5 players or so. It makes it very exciting, nerve-wracking clicking "continue" and waiting for that new signing inbox message. Did I pick well? Did I bomb? Did I choose a promising youngster from Liverpool's castoffs at high wage and find a diamond, or did  I find a high wage dud that I won't be able to get rid of?

 

[Daveincid]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb majesticeternity:

I also play with masked attribute skin where I can only see colors for ranges, and especially for other players, I see very little "accurate" info. So I can only "guess" or "feel" if their attributes and setup would be good

wow! So you don't see any numbers at all? would love to see a player profile as an example

vor 12 Minuten schrieb majesticeternity:

Then, I bite the bullet and sign 1 of the 5 players or so. It makes it very exciting, nerve-wracking clicking "continue" and waiting for that new signing inbox message. Did I pick well? Did I bomb? Did I choose a promising youngster from Liverpool's castoffs at high wage and find a diamond, or did  I find a high wage dud that I won't be able to get rid of?

So according your gaming-style you must have incredible hidden stats with handling pressure! This is a fantastic way of play! 

You really got me inspired

 

Cheers

Daveincid

[Mars_Blackmon]

DOF mode. Where I only add players to transfer target, development or unwanted list. Ask DOF, players and other staff members for suggestions.

 

I also play with skins that hide attributes.

[Daveincid]

Gerade eben schrieb Mars_Blackmon:

DOF mode. Where I only add players to transfer target, development or unwanted list. Ask DOF, players and other staff members for suggestions.

 

I also play with skins that hide attributes.

How good is the behavior of the DOF? 

[Junkhead]

55 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

Thank you for the thread! I think it's a good idea to have a place with that focus.

There is something where I would love to hear other views iof you guys. How do you manage transfers at your club? Do you buy players, which you know they will develop into world-beaters, even if this wouldn't happen with the club in reality? Do you spend much higher salary or money on players than it would happen IRL? When I play with Basel, I always try to be +/- at the wage-budget the club spends at the beginning. If a player want's a much higher salary, it's time to say good bye

Cheers

Daveincid

Glad you like the thread!

I never go over the wage budget, unless it's going to be a very temporary thing and I have no option. Usually I have that as a requirement of the board through the club vision, so from a realism perspective, I don't believe they would allow it IRL.

[Daveincid]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Junkhead:

Glad you like the thread!

I never go over the wage budget, unless it's going to be a very temporary thing and I have no option. Usually I have that as a requirement of the board through the club vision, so from a realism perspective, I don't believe they would allow it IRL.

This is really something I love about the new editions of FM. Club-Visions! I think there is still room for improvement, but it adds so much depht IMO

Edited November 26, 2020 by Daveincid

[Mars_Blackmon]

7 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

How good is the behavior of the DOF? 

I personally never had a problem with it since it’s been added to the game. Of course sometimes they will over pay or undersell but that nulls the advantage I would have as a human over the AI.

 

This year with the recruitment meeting I feel like it’s enhanced because they will actively fill your needs not just short term but long term as well.

 

in my save right now, he put me over the wage budget by 20k but he also have been trying to offload a player that no one wants that makes 16k p/a. I’m just waiting for the DOF to just cut him lol.

[Daveincid]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Mars_Blackmon:

I personally never had a problem with it since it’s been added to the game. Of course sometimes they will over pay or undersell but nulls the advantage I would have as a human over the AI.

 

This year with the recruitment meeting I feel like it’s enhanced because they will actively fill your needs not just short term but long term as well.

Nice!  So you can plan your own philosophy over a longer period with your DOF? 

[Mars_Blackmon]

4 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

Nice!  So you can plan your own philosophy over a longer period with your DOF? 

Yup with the recruitment meetings

[Junkhead]

50 minutes ago, majesticeternity said:

I play in very low leagues. I first determine what positions I need players for. Set a limit of something around 2 players for first team, 2-4 players for subs/rotation/cups. Then skip the scouting cards screen, as it seems to give way too good players. I picked a few up from those cards originally, and they were great players, obscure in reputation(maybe with higher ambition, so they offered their services, over other players??)

So now I go to the player search. Tick Interested in Transfer. Take a look at the highest reputation players available. The theory is that I'm more likely to know of these players, than some random very obscure player on some Level 10 team.

Then, for each position, I choose a handful that look interesting, based only on things like their height, age, positions, and stats for the past season. Add them to the shortlist. No scouting. I also play with masked attribute skin where I can only see colors for ranges, and especially for other players, I see very little "accurate" info. So I can only "guess" or "feel" if their attributes and setup would be good.

Then, I bite the bullet and sign 1 of the 5 players or so. It makes it very exciting, nerve-wracking clicking "continue" and waiting for that new signing inbox message. Did I pick well? Did I bomb? Did I choose a promising youngster from Liverpool's castoffs at high wage and find a diamond, or did  I find a high wage dud that I won't be able to get rid of?

 

I could never sign a player I hadn't scouted, no way would the board make a financial commitment just on my say so. However I rarely play as low as level 10, not for many versions. I suppose on amateur contracts there is no real risk!

Player search is a big no no for me though. Considered it when it was reframed as a "scouting package". But that is one LLaMa rule which cannot be broken in my opinion!

[majesticeternity]

35 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

DOF mode. Where I only add players to transfer target, development or unwanted list. Ask DOF, players and other staff members for suggestions.

 

I also play with skins that hide attributes.

Don't you find that the DOF can negotiate better wages and contracts than you?

I'd try a player, and they'd want $400k/year, but reloaded and tried with DOF just to see, and he got $150k/year.

[Junkhead]

38 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

wow! So you don't see any numbers at all? would love to see a player profile as an example

So according your gaming-style you must have incredible hidden stats with handling pressure! This is a fantastic way of play! 

You really got me inspired

 

Cheers

Daveincid

Tried the skin that hides attributes last year,however the one I used they could be seen on the set pieces tab and I couldn't get rid of them and gave up 🙁

[Junkhead]

22 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Yup with the recruitment meetings

LOVE the recruitment meetings. Been having these in my head for years anyway 😂

[Daveincid]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Junkhead:

Tried the skin that hides attributes last year,however the one I used they could be seen on the set pieces tab and I couldn't get rid of them and gave up 🙁

I am sure there will be help in this thread:)

[majesticeternity]

1 hour ago, Daveincid said:

wow! So you don't see any numbers at all? would love to see a player profile as an example

 

And being at the lower leagues, I normally wouldn't have knowledge of a player, like you can with a well-known top one. So only thing I can see is a few colored attributes at a "guess" of my staff, form, attributes, position, height, footedness and age.

It's the closest to real life-style, of KNOWING about a player, but NOT knowing about them. lol

29 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

I could never sign a player I hadn't scouted, no way would the board make a financial commitment just on my say so. However I rarely play as low as level 10, not for many versions. I suppose on amateur contracts there is no real risk!

Player search is a big no no for me though. Considered it when it was reframed as a "scouting package". But that is one LLaMa rule which cannot be broken in my opinion!

I'm at League 1 for a few seasons now, so its definitely a risk, especially when we're almost relegated a few times. I've signed a few duds, and that's hurt our chances. But also signed a few good ones. Took a chance on a stuck-in-PSG academy striker, and while he's high wages and young, and worth millions, he's been average...not worth it. Signed a Championship club castoff youth, and he's been amazing, but he was cheap, on cheap wages and such.

As far as player search, I never used it before either, as yes, that's a LLaMa rule. But when I got into newgen territory, there were so many young players without clubs coming to me asking, and they were very good players! I tried turning off those kind of cards, but scouts would just recommend them instead. Once I stopped, and started using player search, only using the TOP most reputation players, or only picking 5 random lower reputation players to look at, things got alot harder. The higher rep players often want too-high wages, or other clubs sway them elsewhere, or they're old. The 5 random low rep players are often a chance I don't want to take, as their season ratings look so poor.

So I find I either have to sign some aging player who can only pass, hope on a young unproven player that makes 130 mistakes a season as a fullback, or make do with the players I already have.

I also, for the first time in any FM, have hit major FFP issues! With a few players on high wages + bonuses, the others on piddly amounts, the board have given me like $7m yearly budget due to good player sales and not spending much, but due to regular income, I can only use $4m until I fail FFP. That means I can't sign anyone else, and can't attract better players anyways, which means the squad is poor compared to the league, which means I fight relegation every year, which means players want to leave and others don't want to join, which means next season I'm fighting relegation...and so on...I honestly don't know how to get out of it!! I'm just focusing on training up the players I have, babying the aging ones, analysing every match so I can get a good cup run and ok results so I can stay in the league. I'm trying to get to the Premier League from Level 9, and now I'm Level 3, but it feels sooooo far away still!

It's so much harder, and more fun...or frustrating...lol!

The best option is yes, ask scouts, but when they're so unrealistic...It doesn't work anymore, at least for my saves...

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by majesticeternity

[Junkhead]

18 minutes ago, majesticeternity said:

And being at the lower leagues, I normally wouldn't have knowledge of a player, like you can with a well-known top one. So only thing I can see is a few colored attributes at a "guess" of my staff, form, attributes, position, height, footedness and age.

It's the closest to real life-style, of KNOWING about a player, but NOT knowing about them. lol

I've been at Sky Bet League 1 for a few seasons now, so its definitely a risk, especially when we're almost relegated a few times. I've signed a few duds, and that's hurt our chances. But also signed a few good ones. Took a chance on a stuck-in-PSG academy striker, and while he's high wages and young, and worth millions, he's been average...not worth it. Signed a Championship club castoff youth, and he's been amazing, but he was cheap, on cheap wages and such.

As far as player search, I never used it before either, as yes that's a LLaMa rule. But when I got into newgen territory, there were so many young players without clubs coming to me asking, and they were very good players! I tried turning off those kind of cards, but scouts would just recommend them instead. Once I stopped, and started using player search, only using the TOP most reputation players, or only picking 5 random lower reputation players to look at, things got alot harder. The higher rep players often want too-high wages, or other clubs sway them elsewhere, or they're old. The 5 random low rep players may be completely a chance I don't want to take, as their season ratings look so poor.

So I find I either have to sign some aging player who can pass, hope on a young unproven player to make 130 mistakes a season as a fullback, or make do with the players I already have.

I also, for the first time in any FM, have hit major FFP issues! With a few players on high wages + bonuses, the others on piddly amounts, the board have given me like $7m yearly budget due to good player sales and not spending much, but due to regular income, I can only use $4m until I fail FFP.

It's so much harder, and more fun...or frustrating...lol!

The best option is yes, ask scouts, but when they're so unrealistic...It doesn't work anymore, at least for my saves...

 

The newgens scouts recommend is fine by me - I think the issue is that lots of the good ones that are recommended haven't been signed higher up the pyramid.

[Junkhead]

20 minutes ago, majesticeternity said:

And being at the lower leagues, I normally wouldn't have knowledge of a player, like you can with a well-known top one. So only thing I can see is a few colored attributes at a "guess" of my staff, form, attributes, position, height, footedness and age.

It's the closest to real life-style, of KNOWING about a player, but NOT knowing about them. lol

I'm at League 1 for a few seasons now, so its definitely a risk, especially when we're almost relegated a few times. I've signed a few duds, and that's hurt our chances. But also signed a few good ones. Took a chance on a stuck-in-PSG academy striker, and while he's high wages and young, and worth millions, he's been average...not worth it. Signed a Championship club castoff youth, and he's been amazing, but he was cheap, on cheap wages and such.

As far as player search, I never used it before either, as yes, that's a LLaMa rule. But when I got into newgen territory, there were so many young players without clubs coming to me asking, and they were very good players! I tried turning off those kind of cards, but scouts would just recommend them instead. Once I stopped, and started using player search, only using the TOP most reputation players, or only picking 5 random lower reputation players to look at, things got alot harder. The higher rep players often want too-high wages, or other clubs sway them elsewhere, or they're old. The 5 random low rep players are often a chance I don't want to take, as their season ratings look so poor.

So I find I either have to sign some aging player who can only pass, hope on a young unproven player that makes 130 mistakes a season as a fullback, or make do with the players I already have.

I also, for the first time in any FM, have hit major FFP issues! With a few players on high wages + bonuses, the others on piddly amounts, the board have given me like $7m yearly budget due to good player sales and not spending much, but due to regular income, I can only use $4m until I fail FFP. That means I can't sign anyone else, and can't attract better players anyways, which means the squad is poor compared to the league, which means I fight relegation every year, which means players want to leave and others don't want to join, which means next season I'm fighting relegation...and so on...I honestly don't know how to get out of it!! I'm just focusing on training up the players I have, babying the aging ones, analysing every match so I can get a good cup run and ok results so I can stay in the league. I'm trying to get to the Premier League from Level 9, and now I'm Level 3, but it feels sooooo far away still!

It's so much harder, and more fun...or frustrating...lol!

The best option is yes, ask scouts, but when they're so unrealistic...It doesn't work anymore, at least for my saves...

 

Oh, and does that skin show you the attributes in the set piece creator? 

[BigRedMart]

I do pretty much exactly the same as the op with my main save. Only difference for me is I never use any any editor files. Never have and don’t see any need to add them to my game. Just doesn’t interest me personally. I sometimes do a season or two with a top club but the rest of my FM time in my main save is spent in non league. 

I remember the old forum section with it’s very strict rules. Horrible place. Completely unwelcoming even though many who visited had similar interests in the way the game is played. I myself never posted there due to the ambiance but I used to lurk. I remember feeling sorry for the many players whom did post and then got eaten alive. 
Glad it’s gone. There’s many ways to play and enjoy this game. Realistic or other, each to their own. Just do what you enjoy. 🙂👍
 

 

[Nahuelzn]

In FM20 I did played with the hiding attribute skins, and I plan on doing it with FM21. I feel it's realistic even for top leagues, because in reality some attributes can not be quantified. What is the difference between a 16 and 17 in passing? Maybe speed can be quantified, but still, it depends on a number of variables that I feel it's unrealistic. Having 4 tiers is perfect. You can know that a player is good at dribbling or that he is better than other player. But no that he has 18 in dribbling.

And that makes scouting more complex also. Because you're never sure what you're buying. You have to scout a player, even see him in some matches, and then put in your team and see how it fits. Much more realistic!

What I don't do, it's only limiting myself to scouting for finding players. Because in reality, players can be found almost instantly. Ok, maybe it's not that real that if I'm managing in the Kirguistan 2nd division, I can hire a nigerian from a lower division, but I can always find the top scorers, or see the players represented by certain agent, and that I think it's a total realistic way to hire a player.

[Junkhead]

3 minutes ago, Nahuelzn said:

In FM20 I did played with the hiding attribute skins, and I plan on doing it with FM21. I feel it's realistic even for top leagues, because in reality some attributes can not be quantified. What is the difference between a 16 and 17 in passing? Maybe speed can be quantified, but still, it depends on a number of variables that I feel it's unrealistic. Having 4 tiers is perfect. You can know that a player is good at dribbling or that he is better than other player. But no that he has 18 in dribbling.

And that makes scouting more complex also. Because you're never sure what you're buying. You have to scout a player, even see him in some matches, and then put in your team and see how it fits. Much more realistic!

What I don't do, it's only limiting myself to scouting for finding players. Because in reality, players can be found almost instantly. Ok, maybe it's not that real that if I'm managing in the Kirguistan 2nd division, I can hire a nigerian from a lower division, but I can always find the top scorers, or see the players represented by certain agent, and that I think it's a total realistic way to hire a player.

Finding players is going to be where most difference is between how people play, I think. Each to their own!

You're right about the top scorers, but I would personally always scout them. This is the point of the thread though, really interesting hearing other people's thoughts.

[Tom 99]

46 minutes ago, Nahuelzn said:

Having 4 tiers is perfect. You can know that a player is good at dribbling or that he is better than other player. But no that he has 18 in dribbling.

I understand your approach but only 4 tiers is too rough (and therefore unrealistic). Especially when you are a professional coach who can watch his players every day. One example:

Messi = Dribbling 20 (Tier 1: 16-20)

Average player = Dribbling 11 (Tier 2: 11-15)

Everbody knows players who have Dribbling skills between Messi and this average player.

[Nahuelzn]

7 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Finding players is going to be where most difference is between how people play, I think. Each to their own!

You're right about the top scorers, but I would personally always scout them. This is the point of the thread though, really interesting hearing other people's thoughts.

Of course, as this is mostly a single player game, there's no right and wrong, everyone just plays in their way. But even if I find a top scorer, I usually have to scout him. Or take the risk of buying him without knowing his attributes (which, some times, in case of emergency as a closing transfer deadline, I did). In either case, I feel it's realistic. In one case, you have some knowledge over time of a player. In the other, you're making a bet. It can work, it might not.

If I may add, one new rule I might apply, are the trials. With a trial it's pretty easy to spot good free agents for your team, because you can bring 20 to your squad and usually won't be an issue if it's for a week or two (and you see the stars when they come and they're usually pretty accurate). Maybe self-limiting the number of ongoing trials I can have (max 3 per week, for example) it's a good way to overcome this.

[Nahuelzn]

1 minute ago, Tom 99 said:

I understand your approach but only 4 tiers is too rough (and therefore unrealistic). Especially when you are a professional coach who can watch his players every day. One example:

Messi = Dribbling 20 (Tier 1: 16-20)

Average player = Dribbling 11 (Tier 2: 11-15)

Everbody knows players who have Dribbling skills between Messi and this average player.

Totally true, but since FM only let us have 4 tiers, one have to choose the scale of this. My last save in FM20 was in Oman's 2nd division and I set the highest tier from 14 to 20. I preferred to have more difference in the lower tiers because that's where most of my players and the opponent players were. Maybe if I'm in another country or higher league, I have to set those 4 tiers with different numbers. It's some kind of a new skill you have to develop. I'm fine with that.

[Junkhead]

1 minute ago, Nahuelzn said:

Maybe self-limiting the number of ongoing trials I can have (max 3 per week, for example) it's a good way to overcome this.

Absolutely this. Self limiting is a big part of playing this way, I think - this is a great example.  

On the subject of scouting, for me it's more about the personality and hidden attributes than anything else. Big games, consistency etc. I would also look at a scorers form. Does he score 2 or 3 a game and then nothing for a month, or are the goals consistent.

For me form and position is the most important thing. On my FM20 save I played using a half-back. Finding a player who could play half-back in the conference national was hard enough, but for me the problem was also - had he been playing half-back? That 7.56 average rating looks good, but he has been playing as a BWM. Yes, he can also play half back, but will he perform? 

It's like, for example, the current England team - we look so much better when "Liverpudlian Wolves centre half" plays in our back three because that is the formation he plays in at club level.

[Freakiie]

One thing I generally do once I get some basic saves out of the way is just holiday 15-20 years into the future which will completely reset my football knowledge, so I have to dive in completely blind. Afterwards I'll either journeyman or sometimes a club jumps out for an interesting save (Had a save where I picked NEC for example after they somehow became a top Eredivisie club, without any tycoon funding, yet the actual title kept escaping them, so I went there to finally get them title glory for the first time). You'll have no clue what you're jumping into squad wise, you have no clue what the clubs around you got (or who are the actual top clubs are now and who aren't) and you can't just fill gaps in your squad with some of the regular names you conveniently have lying around in the back of your head. Well you can try, but most will be in their late thirties if they haven't retired yet

Makes it so I can play at a high enough level league club that I can actually develop a squad properly (It's what always kept me away from proper LLM saves, the early on slogs of basically continuously sifting out and replacing the majority of your squad), without finding myself picking up relatively known wonderkids simply because my scouts can't help finding them time and time again. Fake names unfortunately don't help much with hiding the bigger names, as there's plenty of other tells as to whom it is you're looking at.

[gam945]

I try to be as realistic as possible (and play with attributes masked - until the player's scouted), but I use player searches with the appropriate scouting package for my club. It is equivalent to the real life scouting database services, that professional clubs use.

Could someone explain me the logic behind this rule? I'd love to implement it means more realism, genuinely. 

[PatrickReynolds]

I've just started FM21 unemployed, no badges, sunday league reputation. Cause that's what I am!

However, I've just been offered a job that I have zero realistic ability of actually getting. I am Canadian, so set my nationality as such, and right off the bat, FC Edmonton offered me an interview and now have offered me the job. This MUST only be because I'm Canadian. Another manager who expressed interest in the job has WAY better stats than I do, and he's Canadian. I'm only 2 weeks into this save and was expecting to have to wait much longer to get a job, and somewhere really remote if I did. The Canadian Premier League has a 2 star reputation in the game. 

I want to manage in the CPL at some point, but taking this job seems very unrealistic. I'm guessing this is coded in as a freebie for people that want to not wait too long.

Tell me I'm crazy for turning it down, or tell me I'm right to walk away!

[PatrickReynolds]

2 hours ago, gam945 said:

I try to be as realistic as possible (and play with attributes masked - until the player's scouted), but I use player searches with the appropriate scouting package for my club. It is equivalent to the real life scouting database services, that professional clubs use.

Could someone explain me the logic behind this rule? I'd love to implement it means more realism, genuinely. 

I asked the same question on Reddit once and didn't get a satisfactory answer. My logic is the same as yours. If your club pays for the package, it's realistic and you should be able to search!

[Junkhead]

5 hours ago, gam945 said:

I try to be as realistic as possible (and play with attributes masked - until the player's scouted), but I use player searches with the appropriate scouting package for my club. It is equivalent to the real life scouting database services, that professional clubs use.

Could someone explain me the logic behind this rule? I'd love to implement it means more realism, genuinely. 

Hi @gam945!

I think this rule is a bit of a hangover from the days where the player search was different.  It used to work differently from the scouting packages in that it was a search of every player in the world based on reputation.  IIRC it didn't show all players, only those with a high enough reputation to make the list.  It was filterable and it meant that you could basically find whatever you needed quite quickly, particularly if playing with no masked attributes.  It was pretty much the same as the staff search now.

What the scouting packages do is show you realistic players for your club depending on your purchased package, so a completely different ball game.

If I'm honest, using the scouting package is probably more realistic than not using it at all as the club is paying for it anyway.  It's probably me that is being unrealistic here!

 

[Junkhead]

2 hours ago, PatrickReynolds said:

I've just started FM21 unemployed, no badges, sunday league reputation. Cause that's what I am!

However, I've just been offered a job that I have zero realistic ability of actually getting. I am Canadian, so set my nationality as such, and right off the bat, FC Edmonton offered me an interview and now have offered me the job. This MUST only be because I'm Canadian. Another manager who expressed interest in the job has WAY better stats than I do, and he's Canadian. I'm only 2 weeks into this save and was expecting to have to wait much longer to get a job, and somewhere really remote if I did. The Canadian Premier League has a 2 star reputation in the game. 

I want to manage in the CPL at some point, but taking this job seems very unrealistic. I'm guessing this is coded in as a freebie for people that want to not wait too long.

Tell me I'm crazy for turning it down, or tell me I'm right to walk away!

If I was offered a job I felt was unrealistic, I would reject it.  It would ruin my enjoyment of the save.  That being said, the CPL is the likely starting point of a Canadian Manager in real life, and probably the most likely for a Canadian National to get into the game by chance or fluke if they have no badges.

I've got to be honest, I would consider that a reasonable starting point.  On a global level it will give you a bit of a platform if you do well, but the chances of instant continental success are slim if you consider the MLS & Liga MX clubs are likely to outperform you.

Up to you though!

[MrManagerMan]

Ah. I play as realistically as possible. I never start at a top club. One of my best saves was taking York into League Two. Great times. Then left for Swindon but the grass wasn’t greener! Regretted doing that but I made the decision and there was no going back.  I do a lot of what the OP does - I thought it was just me playing like that!

I never use an editor or download skins,faces, badges etc  I play the game as it is.

Another thing I do to keep it realistic is that I’m not allowed to pause the match to change anything or to make a sub. Has to be done as the clock is ticking. I also make sure it saves over itself after every match. If I lose, I lose. I’ve never won the prem. In fact I’ve only ever managed in it twice since I started playing 7/8 years ago.  I see some players on here and YouTube start at a top club and snap up all the great players and win win win everything and that’s fine for them but it’s not the way I want to play the game. And that is why the game is so great I suppose, everyone can play it how they like and everyone will have a different story unfolding. 

[Junkhead]

@MrManagerMan - welcome to the thread!

You're certainly not alone in playing this way, lots of us do - most don't though so we get lost in the shuffle.

8 minutes ago, MrManagerMan said:

Another thing I do to keep it realistic is that I’m not allowed to pause the match to change anything or to make a sub. Has to be done as the clock is ticking.

Never, ever even thought of that, but absolutely right IMO. One more thing to add to my rules in the future.

I generally use sideline view, as low as possible, from dugout side. Even though there are views that give me more visibility, my manager couldn't hover above the stadium during a game IRL. I do allow myself director camera replays though. My thinking is that most clubs film games now, I think you would be able to access the replays on your tablet from other angles.

Autosave after a game is 100% a must for me, agreed.

[Haribo1681]

Just joining in the conversation! I too have been playing since the original CM, bar a hiatus until FM20. In the past, I'd always started as whichever club I fancied but, mostly unintentionally, followed many of the rules discussed here. Basically, I think of downloading tactics or shortlists as cheating so what would be the point? If you don't use the scouting tools in your club, then why bother employing them.

Anyway, despite normally playing as a big club I usually find I get a bit bored after a season or two because there's not really anywhere to go other than sideways and I've always felt that promotion or stepping up via a new job is more exciting than just keeping a big club going.

I'm a couple of months into a typical big club save, but I'll knock that on the head to join in this sub-community with my L1 coaching badge and step-10 playing playing experience from 20 years ago.

PS - I'm really cack at FM.

[Brother Ben]

My main take away from playing with the LLM guidelines is acknowledging that I’m a bit crap at the game but doing it my own way, if I have 10 seasons of no success and get sacked a few times but then finally bag a promotion it’s amazing.  Jump around the room amazing.  All my own work amazing.

it’s great to see there is still an appetite for the LLM way

Edited November 27, 2020 by Brother Ben

[DementedHammer]

I used to follow the LLaMa channel on FM Britain back in the day. I play a variation of that during my own saves, with my own personal twist.

Firstly, if I'm playing as myself, I will only join a local team near to me that I could realistically coach. That's what originally caused me to create my level 11 New Zealand save. Generally, I role play another coach who is just starting out, in whatever country I'm playing in. 

I usually play as far down the football pyramid as possible. I think I started in the ninth tier in my FM20 save. I try to find the lowest semi-professional club that I can find, as I don't think FM handles amateur clubs all that well. 

When starting at a new team, I try to give the existing players a chance to impress me, and I will try to come up with a formation that suits the existing squad, rather than trying to force them into my ideal formation. That pretty much means no new signings for the first season. In other seasons, unless players leave or kick up a fuss, then I'll generally keep the same squad of players together. At most, I'll make a couple of signings a season maximum. 

When I do get new players, at this level I will only buy local players who would realistically come to my club, or players that directly approach me in the scouting centre. The same thing applies when hiring my staff - I will only hire staff through the job centre or those recommended to me by existing staff members. 

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by DementedHammer

[Haribo1681]

40 minutes ago, DementedHammer said:

 

When starting at a new team, I try to give the existing players a chance to impress me, and I will try to come up with a formation that suits the existing squad, rather than trying to force them into my ideal formation. That pretty much means no new signings for the first season. In other seasons, unless players leave or kick up a fuss, then I'll generally keep the same squad of players together. At most, I'll make a couple of signings a season maximum. 

 

This is very much what I do, too - even when managing a superclub. I don't think it's realistic to come in, especially after the first transfer window, and throw out all the existing players for new ones. Plus, I've always taken a lot of joy in getting in know players on FM, then finding out about them in real life.

[DementedHammer]

30 minutes ago, Haribo1681 said:

Plus, I've always taken a lot of joy in getting in know players on FM, then finding out about them in real life.

You've just reminded me that I once hired an assistant manager where the defining factor was that his online profile listed his favourite band as Primordial, which is a band that I also like. 

Edited November 27, 2020 by DementedHammer

[XuluBak]

Fantastic thread. First and foremost, I think it's important to keep in mind that "realistic" is relative. For most of us, our starting frame of reference can't be real life, cause we wouldn't be getting a job as a football manager anywhere and that's why we play the game. So I think a mental backstory/bio/narrative, whatever you want to call it, can be useful. 

That said...

Scouts are too good and it's way to easy to "win" the transfer market by buying low (or free) and selling high. I think that's exacerbated by a lack of randomness. Sometimes great players make a move and it doesn't work out. Sometimes a player that's written off goes somewhere else and becomes a star player.  That's all to say it's too easy, and unrealistic, the way you can build a squad, if you take total control. Realistically, delegation should be a huge part of "the job" because being manager is a extremely demanding full-time job, especially at the highest levels. Somethings are easier to hand over than others. I'm hopeful recruitment meetings will go a long ways towards being involved, without being in control, of the team building aspect. 

 

[XuluBak]

9 hours ago, PatrickReynolds said:

I've just started FM21 unemployed, no badges, sunday league reputation. Cause that's what I am!

However, I've just been offered a job that I have zero realistic ability of actually getting. I am Canadian, so set my nationality as such, and right off the bat, FC Edmonton offered me an interview and now have offered me the job. This MUST only be because I'm Canadian. Another manager who expressed interest in the job has WAY better stats than I do, and he's Canadian. I'm only 2 weeks into this save and was expecting to have to wait much longer to get a job, and somewhere really remote if I did. The Canadian Premier League has a 2 star reputation in the game. 

I want to manage in the CPL at some point, but taking this job seems very unrealistic. I'm guessing this is coded in as a freebie for people that want to not wait too long.

Tell me I'm crazy for turning it down, or tell me I'm right to walk away!

I did the Ultimate FM Challenge last year, and it seemed that nationality was a huge factor in the jobs you could land or be considered for...

I started in South Africa, and after winning there, expected to move to a lower tier somewhere in Europe, but couldn't get an interview (even at clubs/leagues with lower reputation), except in China, so I ended up moving from Tuks FC to Dalian Yifang with a 100M+ transfer budget. 

 

[Junkhead]

4 hours ago, DementedHammer said:

You've just reminded me that I once hired an assistant manager where the defining factor was that his online profile listed his favourite band as Primordial, which is a band that I also like. 

Love this. Met him at a gig did you? 😂

[FlorianAlbert9]

Maybe i'm blind, but, where do you pick the skin with att masked? 

It's possibile masking them in every skins?

It's possible masking only some att and not all? 

 

Thanks!

[PatrickReynolds]

48 minutes ago, XuluBak said:

I did the Ultimate FM Challenge last year, and it seemed that nationality was a huge factor in the jobs you could land or be considered for...

I started in South Africa, and after winning there, expected to move to a lower tier somewhere in Europe, but couldn't get an interview (even at clubs/leagues with lower reputation), except in China, so I ended up moving from Tuks FC to Dalian Yifang with a 100M+ transfer budget. 

 

That's my wonder, how much nationality plays into it. If it is that big a factor then maybe I should start at FC Edmonton, and when I leave Canada I still may have to go to a smaller league internationally. But maybe the game won't even give me that chance if I don't start in Canada.

[Junkhead]

11 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

Maybe i'm blind, but, where do you pick the skin with att masked? 

It's possibile masking them in every skins?

It's possible masking only some att and not all? 

 

Thanks!

Hi!

There is a third party skin which masks all attributes forever. They do not even show up when scouted. I do not believe there is one finished for FM21 yet though.

[HUNT3R]

6 hours ago, DementedHammer said:

I used to follow the LLaMa channel on FM Britain back in the day.

That's where I started as a forum member and got introduced to being a LLaMa. If not, I don't think I would have entered this world.

 

-------

 

As far as scouting, yes, I still have to scout everyone. I don't use the player search, but these days with scout packages etc it's much more realistic, so can see why people use it.

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, Junkhead said:

There is a third party skin which masks all attributes forever. They do not even show up when scouted. I do not believe there is one finished for FM21 yet though.

This is something I definitely want to try this year. 

[PatrickReynolds]

8 hours ago, Junkhead said:

If I was offered a job I felt was unrealistic, I would reject it.  It would ruin my enjoyment of the save.  That being said, the CPL is the likely starting point of a Canadian Manager in real life, and probably the most likely for a Canadian National to get into the game by chance or fluke if they have no badges.

I've got to be honest, I would consider that a reasonable starting point.  On a global level it will give you a bit of a platform if you do well, but the chances of instant continental success are slim if you consider the MLS & Liga MX clubs are likely to outperform you.

Up to you though!

Definitely going to consider it now if you think it's realistic! Perhaps nationality plays a bigger factor than I thought. Plus, finances are good and I can get some badges! While it's not realistic that I'd walk into the job here, it's less realistic that since random club in India would hire me

[HUNT3R]

57 minutes ago, XuluBak said:

I started in South Africa, and after winning there,

Who did you start with? I'm South African, so interested to hear! Did you choose the club or did they hire you from being unemployed?