A Closer Look at Training.

[SFraser]

I have been out of the loop for a while and missed some great discussion here; there are a couple of points that I wish to clarify such as relationship of training with other areas of the game, function of the training mechanics as well as the extent of my own ignorance.

First of all this has always been a rough guide towards an understanding of how training works. I do not know the exact numbers involved, exact cut-off points or other specific details and indeed it is likely that specifics are determined by multiple variables in your clubs setup and situation as well as the player themselves.

This closer look at training is a look at training in its self, independant of all other things. It does not take into account how often a player plays, the training facilities, coaching ability, time of season, player attributes and features etc. It is meant as an explanation of the basic principles of the training mechanics, with specifics to be discovered and experimented with each individual player at each individual club in each particular game. If results vary but the basic principles hold true then this is a well constructed game with a lot of logical depth.

Training Workload

Simply put in an ideal situation where the player is immune to fatigue and has a perfect temperament then you wish to give this player a training schedule with the maximum possible training workload. If he is immune to fatigue and has a perfect temperament then the more you train him the better he gets. This is the basic principle of the training workload.

The training workload has a cap. The extreme right of the Overall Workload bar means you cannot increase the overall intensity of this training schedule any further. The Overall Workload bar means Overall Workload. It is the combined intensity of all training areas reduced to a single overall schedule intensity. In an ideal situation each player will apply themselves to this schedule will equal intensity, and this Overall Workload intensity will be a standard benchmark for all players. How it works in a training context is simple, it is a limiting factor for the combined distribution of specific training areas. When you reach this point in Overall Workload you cannot add any more training to this schedule.

The individual training areas is where the actual training occurs. Each point on each bar contributes the same increase in training of each respective area, so point 20 on Aerobic contributes equal aerobic training to the set peice training of point 20 on the Set Peice bar. Where they differ is in the rate at which they fill up the Overall Workload bar. This means that a training schedule with 20 in Aerobic and Strength cannot train other areas to the same degree as a training schedule with 10 in Aerobic and Strength, because Aerobic and Strength training fill up the Overall Workload bar faster than everything else leaving you less spare Overall Workload to assign to other training areas.

Training Levels

Each player has a screen that shows his training schedule and his training levels for each area represented by bars. These levels do not correspond to the levels you have assigned within that schedule, they correspond to his improvement. Level 10 Strength may have an equal height bar to level 20 Set Peice. You may assign a player a high intensity schedule early in Pre-Season or immediatly after recovering from an injury and still see these levels very low. This shows that the levels correspond to the players improvement in these areas, and it also shows that improvement in training areas is a process dependant upon time and prior training. Players attributes may diminish during the off-season and Pre-Season training will show a minimal response to a heavy schedule. This represents the zero training the player received during the off-season and his reaction to the first month of Pre-Season training. Irrespective of the schedule it may take several months for a player to achieve the maximum levels in these bars for his schedule.

With this in mind it is clear that the training levels seperated by dotted lines represent degrees of improvement, from degenerating quickly to improving quickly. I assume that bar heights that fall inbetween cut-off points or coloured peaks would represent degrees within such an area akin to mentality sliders or other similar mechanics already employed within the game. If this is true then we have two highly detailed and similar systems for determining training input and measuring training output/improvement and can thus balance training perfectly.

Training Arrows

Given away by the correlation with the assistant manager training reports, the training arrows in the squad training screen represent the third facet of training; how well your players are applying themselves to the individual areas of training. This is no doubt highly conditional involving many situational modifiers, but provides the information regarding this vital third aspect. A player applying themselves well in training may not require such high training levels to attain the desired level of improvement. Likewise a player applying themselves poorly may require an increase in the relevant area of the schedule to attain the desired level of improvement, or may require some particular management outside of training altogether.

Combination

All three aspects of training when taken together provide a thorough overview of training and the ability to micromanage details. The training schedule requires careful balance of Overall Workload with individual training area intensity, which can be monitered through the monthly training level graphs and adjusted to suit specific desires or requirements. The player himself can be closely monitered through the weekly reaction of his training arrows to understand his particular preferences and dislikes, overall application and mentality, and reaction to specific situations. The training mechanics are identical in principle to the tactical mechanics and represented information such as morale etc. and require little more than accurate evaluation of their meaning and subsequent micromanagement.

[Blaupunkt]

daft question time - whats the difference between attributes increasing in size as opposed to speed, in the original post is says

click number 19 or position 20 is where attributes will no longer increase in size but only increase in speed.

so if for example you have a player with passing at 16 and you have X slide bar set to click number 19 the attribute will no longer increase ? i.e improve to 17, 18 etc if this is correct what exactly will happen ? how does it increase in speed ?

[OldGiants]

Do the unseen (unless you use an editor) maximum Potential points apply to all categories combined? By that I mean if you have a player who is , for the sake of argument, 140 out of 140, he can't increase in any category. I understand that to mean is skills won't improve (ignoring the shifting piece for now).

Does that also mean he will not gain experience or improve mentally at all? In effect, a 22 year-old 140 out of 140 will never get any better by playing in matches and gaining experience. He can play for 10 years, stay 140 out of 140 and never pick up any experience until his physical skills begin to decline and get replaced by mental skills?

Hope that makes sense as a question. I had hoped the PA was a cap on physical and technical skills but that experience would be gained even if CA = PA.

[SFraser]

daft question time - whats the difference between attributes increasing in size as opposed to speed, in the original post is says

so if for example you have a player with passing at 16 and you have X slide bar set to click number 19 the attribute will no longer increase ? i.e improve to 17, 18 etc if this is correct what exactly will happen ? how does it increase in speed ?

Well there is no real difference between an attribute increasing faster or increasing by a bigger margin over the same period of time. The point to remember is that each player has an ability cap so you can never really increase his ability in terms of size unless he has yet to reach his peak.

The positions on the training sliders do not directly correspond to a particular attribute, position 20 on the training slider does not mean train X attribute to 20. It means focus attribute changes on these attributes in a positive way.

If you then balance the schedule with for example position 5 on set peices you will focus attribute changes on set peice attributes heavilly in a negative way.

This will allow you to effectively direct attributes from set peices towards the other attributes of your choice.

[Ricky Riccardo]

This is a really good post guys.

I agree with most of whats been said, however my method of training has always worked for me, its long and hard and requires attention to detail, but I classify myself as a Manager who develops players first and foremost.

The way I set up my training is each player (fulltimers only) gets his own training regime, its long to set up but so much easier to monitor and tweak to get the best out of him. I also have my players learning new moves or positions and they fit into my tactics perfectly.

My advice would be to take the time with every player (just like in real life) and monitor them every week for the first 6 months, then every 2 weeks for the next 6, then every month (after training reports from ass man) once you have everything the way you want it.

also would like tonote, its best to do this if its your first time, to do it with a big team untill you are comfortable then go to a side like Ipswich, Ajax, Partizan ect. You get to know your players alot better and tailor them to suit your needs.

Much more satisfaction, much more fun for long games.

[Siddo]

Just a quick question regarding training.

What would you consider the minimum value to maintain stats. I have a pre season schedule that is Intensive on Strength and Aerobic and then the Tactics slider is set to the middle (Normal).

Now i base my schedules (Defence, Midfield, Attack) on the General schedule and then change the sliders depending on the position. So Defence for example has the sliders increased on Tactics and Defending while shooting is decreased.

Things seem to be ok and have no players moaning but just wanted to see if i could eek more out of the training.

Thanks in advance for replies.

[SFraser]

Just a quick question regarding training.

What would you consider the minimum value to maintain stats. I have a pre season schedule that is Intensive on Strength and Aerobic and then the Tactics slider is set to the middle (Normal).

Now i base my schedules (Defence, Midfield, Attack) on the General schedule and then change the sliders depending on the position. So Defence for example has the sliders increased on Tactics and Defending while shooting is decreased.

Things seem to be ok and have no players moaning but just wanted to see if i could eek more out of the training.

Thanks in advance for replies.

The minimum value to maintain stats depends upon the player, the balance of the schedule, playing time, length of time on the schedule etc. but in very general terms is probably around slider position 10, or when light turns to medium on the description of the schedule intensity next to the slider. What you have to remember is that the training schedule operates in terms of ratio and intensity, but is only a rough foundation ontop of which comes multiple other factors that determine the actual result of training.

The biggest factor in Pre-Season training is that it is the start of a season long training schedule. There is no, or little, training in the months prior to Pre-Season training and players will take time to adjust to Pre-Season training and receive maximum benefit. The training levels may still be high, but the progress will be low in the early stages, and players may even lose attributes no matter how high the levels are. A manager can be lured into cranking up training levels to a degree where players actually suffer in training sessions, because overall progress appears low.

The way I approach Pre-Season training is to treat the entire squad as if they are coming back from a month long or 2 month long injury. Set all players to the same schedule, set all sliders to the same level, and start off in the first week with a light training schedule, increase it to medium the next week, and so on. This not only eases players slowly back into the rythm of training without overexerting them, but it allows a manager to observe how different players apply themselves to different areas, how the different areas of training contribute to more intense sessions and higher training levels, and to observe how different players react overall to different training intensities. When a player reaches a level of training he is no longer happy with it is time to make a note of how individually he reacts and responds and applies himself to the different training areas, and you can customise an individual training schedule for him using this data.

Application, response, progress and improvement of a player to a training schedule is a very "personal" thing and to get the best out of training schedules and players you have to do the experimentation to find out how they individually react to training.

[Lyssien]

SFraser, it's nice to read people who have done their research before writing their guides.

I used to run hardcore experiments on training etc, but I cannot afford it at present. I am glad you are around. However, I have run a couple of experiments recently, and my conclusions are very similar to yours. I doubt the number-of-clicks theory, but I do strongly support your opinion on how people should interact with Training Levels (so number-of-clicks theories are not needed any more).

The only thing that is missing here is a step-by-step guide on how to interact with Training Levels. I say this, because I suspect that the ideas behind Training Levels are complex for the average gamer to grasp within a paragraph.

Cleon, if you are reading this, I strongly suggest that this thread is stickied. SFraser has apparently done HIS research, and MY research converges to similar conclusions. All in all this is something that everyone should read carefully and try to understand, imo, if they wish to interact with training more actively.

Respect to SFraser. This thread is so informative, that I wish I had written it.

[Cleon]

Done for you:)

[SFraser]

Respect to SFraser. This thread is so informative, that I wish I had written it.

Thank you for your praise. I suspect one of the reasons why this thread is not stickied is the fact that I am sure it is incomplete, and perhaps badly formatted. There are a few things I have forgotten to address, or only recently just grasped completely, and I think I can offer an explanation for a few examples of training behaviour that apparently contradict this guide.

First of all, if all attribute increases are down to training, what is the point of sending your players out on loan? The clubs you loan to will most likely have a poorer training setup.

If you have ever fined a player 2 weeks wages then you may have seen an obvious change in his Determination or Work Rate attributes due to that fine, or a subtle change in his personality. It is slowly becoming obvious to myself that training schedules set the balance or proportion of attributes changes and contribute a quantity of increases at higher training intensities, but that actual attribute increases in players is determined by much more than training alone.

Indeed the greatest increases in attributes seem to come from young players around the age of 20 playing several consecutive matches, achieving high ratings and generally performing well, and in conjuction with a heavy, general training schedule. These are also players with a low CA but a very high PA. So for example a 20 year old player with good stats is far less likely to improve by the same degree than a 20 year old with low stats but high potential.

The end result of my observations goes something like this:

Current Ability vastly under Potential Ability

Playing Regularly = Rapid Attributes Increases.

High Ratings = Rapid Attribute Increases.

High Training = Rapid Attribute Increases.

Current Ability close to Potential Ability

Playing Regularly = Slow Increase or perhaps even Maintainance of Attributes.

High Ratings = Slow Increases.

High Training = Slow Increases.

Current Ability equal to Potential Ability

No room left for increases in attributes that count towards his PA score. Strikers may slowly increase in tackling or other such Position unrelated attributes, but cannot increase in Finishing for example under normal circumstances or without a decrease in a related attribute.

The answer to your question based on my observations and conclusions is that playing a young player regularly throughout your clubs youth team, reserves and first team in games where he can achieve decent ratings and alongside a good training schedule and good facilities is superior to the same course of action in a club with inferior training facilities. However depriving a youngster of both match experience and high ratings is vastly inferior to his development than good training facilities alone.

If you have a large squad and youth player with low CA and high PA then you have to decide whether or not he will gain the match experience, ratings and attention to training detail required to maximise his development. If not then you have to decide whether or not loaning him out would infact be of benefit to him, i.e. whether the reduction of quality in training is matched and surpassed by the benefits of regular football and a starring role in a lower league club.

The general conclusion of my observations is that actual improvements and changes to a players attributes depend upon his attitude, personality, happiness, quantity of playing time, match performances, managerial interaction, training schedules, intensity and facilities and even perhaps the level of the opposition and his performances in big matches and things like individual player awards and achievements.

It is speculative but perhaps warrented to surmise that every interaction and performance and achievement related to an individual player has a minor modifying influence towards his database statistics, and that all things when taken together produce small, medium or large changes to these statistics.

I noticed that all of the players were "Happy with the current training workload". Does this mean I can afford to bump up the Strength and Aerobics sliders (and therefore the overall workload) without any damaging effects on morale?

This seems a reasonable conclusion, but keep in mind that increased physical training has a direct and sometimes profound influence upon a players likelyhood to receive injuries as well as the rate at which he recovers his condition. In the real world intense physical training is usually reserved for Pre-Season training or for squad players that might only get ten starts a season.

All my players are on the general training MEDIUM very close to HIGH. All my players seem to be increasing in some areas and the best young players increase in almost all areas. I keep all the players on general training because i feel like specific training can damage them. I`m not sure which players need what training.. I seems like when you thing that strikers only need good finishing , anticipation and positioning, heading, pace and acceleration and you train them higher in those areas they loose training in marking, tackling and other defensive areas but when you think of tactics arent those skills required to be trained as well?

This is a key point and what you say shows you are on the ball with regards to training.

General training often appears to be the best training schedule because it produces the greatest number of attribute increases. There is a reason for this and the reason is a quirk of the development principles of this game and has lead to exploits in the past.

The principle behind training is that each Position recognises its own set of specific stats that are key for this position, and these stats count towards a players Potential Ability score. The other stats are considered "free stats" and are NOT limited by a players PA score. This means that a Striker that has reached his PA can increase his tackling for "free" but can only increase his finishing if he loses an attribute point in another key stat. If a Striker has for example 10 ket stats recognised by the game and a PA of 200 then he can reach 20 in each stat. If he has a PA of 190 then he can reach 19 in each stat, or 19 in most stats, 20 in one stat, and 18 in another. All strikers can theoretically reach 20 in tackling without having to reduce points in other attributes first.

The problem with General training is that although it produces great players, it does not give the manager any control whatsoever for the redistribution of key attributes. General training will make Huntelaar a more balanced and well rounded player, but General training will never increase his finishing or off-the-ball when he has reached his PA.

To turn Huntelaar into the next Van Nistelrooy you need to purposely redistribute his key Striker attributes once he has reached his PA. Otherwise you will be left with a good solid and perhaps even great general player with good attacking talents, that simply never lives up to the sheer finishing and poaching potential he so obviously has. You could theoretically train Huntelaar so that he has 20 finishing, 20 anticipation, 20 off-the-ball, 20 composure, but this would require a vast attention to detail and a perfectly balanced individual schedule that purposely removes attributes from one area and adds them to another.

What you say about a team game is absolutely true. You could have 11 players that are near perfect in certain roles, or have a team that can play "total football" but you cannot train a perfect Striker through General training or a General Warrior through a Perfect Striker schedule.

I hope that helps clear up your questions.

[moj]

Great thread and your points are very logical and correct Sfraser, can you upload your training schedules for the lazy people (like me) ?

[Cleon]

Thank you for your praise. I suspect one of the reasons why this thread is not stickied is the fact that I am sure it is incomplete, and perhaps badly formatted. There are a few things I have forgotten to address, or only recently just grasped completely, and I think I can offer an explanation for a few examples of training behaviour that apparently contradict this guide.

The only reason was because I didn't notice the thread in all honesty as I don't read many training threads sadly. However it is now sticking and rightly so, you've put some real effort into this. Nicely done

[SFraser]

The only reason was because I didn't notice the thread in all honesty as I don't read many training threads sadly. However it is now sticking and rightly so, you've put some real effort into this. Nicely done

Thanks, though I have to admit if someone else wrote my initial post today I would probably disagree with it. The basic description of training mechanics are sound but the apparent fundamental importance of CA versus PA, performance ratings and game time deserves far more attention than I was previously aware of with regards to player improvement.

I have to say that the more I delve into this game the more it becomes a tour de force of footballing knowledge and programming.

Great thread and your points are very logical and correct Sfraser, can you upload your training schedules for the lazy people (like me) ?

The only training schedule I have that would be of any use is my Pre-Season experimental General training schedule. I use my Pre-Season schedule to focus on nothing and train everything to the same degree, while observing player reaction and reaping the benefits of widespread general development. Every other schedule is custom designed for my Manchester United players.

[Lyssien]

Thank you for your praise. I suspect one of the reasons why this thread is not stickied is the fact that I am sure it is incomplete, and perhaps badly formatted. There are a few things I have forgotten to address, or only recently just grasped completely, and I think I can offer an explanation for a few examples of training behaviour that apparently contradict this guide.

I think you are being too hard on yourself. Training Levels is the single most advanced concept that allows the gamer to interact with FM-training like a pro. You were the first one around here to offer the explanation of how they should be used.

To be honest with you, I didn't take your "closer look" too seriously at the beginning. You were relatively new around here, and I have read too many guides that mislead people, no matter if the intentions were good. I have also seen popular training schedules that completely miss the point. Sad, really. Why should your guide be necessarily different? I wouldn't have stickied this either.... until today. Today, I reached my conclusions on Training Levels (was so proud of myself for a couple of minutes), then came here and realized that... you have been there already! Now I KNOW that you 're doing real research and offer responsible advice (nobody is infallible, of course, that's not what I am talking about). So, that's a job well done, and hopefully you are going to keep up the good work!

PS. Training Levels. Training Levels. Training Levels. We have to get the community to start using them.

EDIT: About loaning players out. I agree that playing first team games regularly improves Current Ability, especially if the youngster plays decently. There is also something else everyone should remember: There is a Consistency attribute which is hidden and determines how often the player has bad match days. It is an important attribute that is part of Current Ability. This usually starts low for youngsters and develops gradually. Playing first team games in a young age helps improving this attribute considerably.

That's why, it is crucial to loan players out for at least one season during devlopment. Especially those players for whom the coaches think that are "fairly inconsistent" (check the coaches reports).

[SFraser]

PS. Training Levels. Training Levels. Training Levels. We have to get the community to start using them.

Indeed, but the question is how do training levels relate to progress relate to actual attribute improvement? If we take training levels alone then attribute increases do not make sense. Equally if we take training levels and training progress together then still attribute increases do not make sense. But if we combine CA and PA differences, high and low attribute differences to training schedules, match practice and match performance then we begin to see patterns evolving both in the extent of development and in the specifics of development.

EDIT: About loaning players out. I agree that playing first team games regularly improves Current Ability, especially if the youngster plays decently. There is also something else everyone should remember: There is a Consistency attribute which is hidden and determines how often the player has bad match days. It is an important attribute that is part of Current Ability. This usually starts low for youngsters and develops gradually. Playing first team games in a young age helps improving this attribute considerably.

That's why, it is crucial to loan players out for at least one season during devlopment. Especially those players for whom the coaches think that are "fairly inconsistent" (check the coaches reports).

That is an important point and I thank you for bringing it up.

[Lyssien]

Indeed, but the question is how do training levels relate to progress relate to actual attribute improvement? If we take training levels alone then attribute increases do not make sense. Equally if we take training levels and training progress together then still attribute increases do not make sense. But if we combine CA and PA differences, high and low attribute differences to training schedules, match practice and match performance then we begin to see patterns evolving both in the extent of development and in the specifics of development.

True. But while you are aiming at an holistic theory of player development and PA reaching, I think that the first step should be to teach people (who don't necessarily use editors) how to get involved in training and design their own player-specific schedules, which may not be optimal, but still good and definately better than the default ones. Right now, most people do not touch training (or acquire schedules by others), either because they do not care or because they cannot make sense of the training feedback that the game offers. So they cannot have fun with it.

So, in my very personal opinion, there needs to be a plan to walk gamers slowly through all this chaotic staff step-by-step, because not a lot of people will have the motivation, the patience or the background to face the holistic picture all at once. If I had been doing this (and I would, if I were not getting married soon and you didn't exist), my little plan would have looked like this:

1) Help people understand training behaviour and feedback and teach them how to design their own player-specific schedules without fear for messing things up.

- Overall workload and Sliders. (fairly simple). Teaching gamers of how to go about designing their own schedules.

- Making sense of Training feedback. This won't exaplain how to develop players in general, it will explain the training factor in that alone. Keeping track of Training Levels is core to this. I bet my right hand that most people don't even know that they can click on each regime of the training levels and get a history of the training level for that regime alone. This part should end up explaining how to tweak our original schedules and improve them, according to the Training Levels feedback. It should explain how to make Training Levels look good, and then gradually tweak them to perfection for each player. You kind of did this in your post#51, but a more step-by-step (month-by-month) guide would be nice.

- Examples of player-specific training schedules and tweaking according to feedback. These don't have to be optimal, they should just give an idea.

2) Teach people how to handle their players' development in general. This part should explain that not everything happenning is due to training alone. PA-CA general concepts, first team playing time, loaning out, natural progression, player happiness, tutoring etc. The general plan that the gamer should have in mind for his players and how to diverge to meet specific player needs. This part should require a general knowledge of what CA and PA are, but it should not require that gamers use editors.

3) Advanced Fine tuning to meet perfection. Advanced research results can go in here. All the dirty tricks you may find out about, and relatively rigorous walkthrough of how to handle players under different circumstances, so that they reach their PA.

This is just a general plan, not everything should necessarily be like that. You have already given good advice on most of those topics and you are still working on some more, hopefully the readers can follow the "discussion format". If I were you, I would incorporate your post#51 in your first post somehow. The first post of the thread is always the most important one.

I hope you don't mind me throwing in suggestions like this. These are just my suggestions.

[James8]

Right now, most people do not touch training... because they... cannot make sense of the training feedback that the game offers. So they cannot have fun with it.

Completely true - I will freely admit to being one of 'these people' for the exact reasons you have stated.

I have tried to design my own training schedules a while back and some of the things that SFraser and Lyssien have written here have struck a chord. SFraser's observations regarding the Overall Workload (post #51) are very good to read and I'm glad it works this way. If I understand correctly there is also a balance to be found in terms of maximising the improvement of each player and his condition prior to each match.

What I was trying to do at the time was to train each player to the maximum Overall Workload that he was 'happy' with. I found it extremely difficult, and time consuming, to find the point for each player where his training happiness switched from 'happy with his current schedule' to 'unhappy with the high training workload'. Especially if you have a squad of 30 - 50 players! I think this is an area where the AM feedback could be improved as I would imagine that this transition point will change as players improve, especially youngsters.

- Is there a way to know where this transition point lies at any moment in time that I am not aware of?

- Another fundamental thing I never managed to figure out was how often the status of each player's happiness was updated - is it

immediately upon pressing continue, every week or every month along with the AM's training summary?

It would be great to get the training sliders (esp. Overall Workload) numbered as the time required counting clicks etc. could be eliminated. I might have a go at this - I managed to do it for the tactic sliders recently.

I bet my right hand that most people don't even know that they can click on each regime of the training levels and get a history of the training level for that regime alone.

Your right hand is safe - I did not know this! I'm amazed after the years I've played this game the things I still don't know - incredible!

[uppercut]

I bet my right hand that most people don't even know that they can click on each regime of the training levels and get a history of the training level for that regime alone

i knew this, gimme that hand! okay i stumbled on it by accident in the last game.

[drunkpunk]

This has been a fascinating read and I'll be taking so points on board. I've always used pretty generic training schemes with a little more emphasis on developing key attributes for a players position. My sliders are usually pretty evenly balanced maybe with say, for a defender a little more training for defending and tactics to aid the development in these areas so the players are actually useful to my squad.

I've always seen loaning players out as really important. I tend to take up a lot of month to 3 month loans as that way a player gets a bunch of first team games under his belt. This means he's not away from the club for too long whilst developing. A few players each season whom I feel would benefit from a full season away to gain plenty of experience. These are usually players who have already developed a fair bit from my U-18 side but can't break out from the reserves into my first team squad.

[Rashidi]

SFraser - Great post mate.

I haven't been able to pop around the forums for a while, my work commitments have taken a toll, and its nice to see some great observations in a relatively "green" area made. Your observations make a lot of sense and reinforce my opinions on training I made a long time ago.

I completely agree that its possible to devise a training schedule and vary its workload to achieve optimum training levels for players. And like Lyssien mentioned their success depends on a whole host of other factors. I remember doing an experiment where I had different training schedules created which had different areas of focus, i dropped players in to see the effect. The nett effect reinforced my belief that different players react differently, however the best way to manage a training schedule is by adjusting the workload.

Since different players react differently to training based on their attitude and professionalism its possible to develop specific training schedules to optimise training. I just wished I had as much time as before to look into this, but I can't. I'm glad to see others taking up the mantle though

[uppercut]

i had etoo at barca and he didnt like being lumped into the same striker training as all my other strikers who had no issues with it, i had make a lower intensity one just for him.

when it comes to training, what do people prefer to do, train their players in improve already their highish core stats, or improve general stats to make them better all rounders?

[Rashidi]

Uppercut...personally my training is geared towards getting the players to improve in attributes that for me are important in as far as my style of play goes...viz pace, passing, decisions, crossing and positioning.

[SFraser]

I hope you don't mind me throwing in suggestions like this. These are just my suggestions.

Not at all. I have thought about rewriting the original post and will get around to it when the bug for getting my thoughts down on paper strikes again. Infact I wouldn't say no to some assistance and input if you have the time/desire.

If I understand correctly there is also a balance to be found in terms of maximising the improvement of each player and his condition prior to each match.

In general that is a sound principle. In detail match performance has (or appears to have) an important impact on attribute increases, while the general condition, stamina and match fitness of a player also has an important impact on his performances as well as his ability to play regularly. Younger and older players are most susceptible to increases or decreases in attributes as well as to being over or under played in terms of overall condition and fatigue. This means that players in their prime can play most regularly but equally see the least rapid change in their attributes. Younger and older players have to be carefully managed in terms of their fitness and fatigue while being most likely to see their attributes change dramatically if this balance is achieved or upset.

If players are young and are relatively far from their max potential then they need careful attention in terms of condition and match practice as well as training intensity. Likewise players over the age of thirty or so, depending upon position, also need careful attention to match practice, condition and training intensity to prevent rapid declines. Players between the age of 22 to 30 can be reasonably ignored in detail, given a training schedule tweaked so that they maintain a mid to high 90s condition between matches so they can perform well on match day.

- Is there a way to know where this transition point lies at any moment in time that I am not aware of?

Generally speaking age, morale and personality should give an indication of this transition point, but it will not give a clear dividing line. The only way to accurately determine it is to tweak schedules and observe reaction.

- Another fundamental thing I never managed to figure out was how often the status of each player's happiness was updated - is it

immediately upon pressing continue, every week or every month along with the AM's training summary?

I find that the status of a players happiness as well as his training level indicators will update after I press continue and pass a couple of days. It is possible it updates daily but I have not directly tested it, but it does update regularly and within a week certainly.

I've always used pretty generic training schemes with a little more emphasis on developing key attributes for a players position. My sliders are usually pretty evenly balanced maybe with say, for a defender a little more training for defending and tactics to aid the development in these areas so the players are actually useful to my squad.

A generic training schedule will generally maintain a peak players position-key attributes at their current balance and improve his general game in other positionally non-vital areas. If he is young and below his PA then a general training schedule will improve all attributes at a fairly regular rate. To improve a defenders key attributes when he has reached his PA requires concessions in other key attributes. You cannot get a "free lunch" with these players so to speak, but are forced to train some areas intensively at the expense of lower training in others.

So for example improvements for a peaked Centre Back in Tactics and Defending (Anticipation, Decisions, Positioning, Concentration, Marking, Tackling) must come at the expense of Strength, Aerobic and Ball Control (Strength, Acceleration, Jumping, Pace, Heading). You could use this same schedule to heavilly favour the mental aspect of defending for a developing Centre-Back, perhaps one that is rather short. A Cannavaro rather than a Lucio.

I've always seen loaning players out as really important. I tend to take up a lot of month to 3 month loans as that way a player gets a bunch of first team games under his belt. This means he's not away from the club for too long whilst developing.

The downside to the three month approach is that his performance ratings will likely suffer despite getting some match experience. I would personally go for a 6 month minimum approach but only in circumstances where my season long plan for the player has proven to be a mistake or some unforeseen occurance has cropped up. Otherwise make a decision for your player at the start of the season and stick to it. Let the loanee turn things around at his loan club or try and give an unloaned player special developmental attention throughout the season and a proper chance the next. One poor season can be a learning process and is understandable, two poor consecutive seasons points at fundamental weaknesses. Whether they are his or yours is for you to judge.

when it comes to training, what do people prefer to do, train their players in improve already their highish core stats, or improve general stats to make them better all rounders?

When it comes to FM preferences and the desired end result are not always the same thing. In an ideal situation the manager will be acutely aware of a players potential, the kind of player that his attributes currently make him, and the kind of player the manager wants him to be and within what kind of role. The manager will then custom design a training schedule intended to develop the current player into the potential player based upon that role. This is simply a vast amount of micromanagement and complete attention to detail.

General schedules are not only functional but provide their own benefits over highly varied schedules and may indeed be the perfect schedule for a certain player. However completely custom designed schedules allow that level of control over a players development that a solid general schedule does not.

[ron.e]

Thank you for your praise. I suspect one of the reasons why this thread is not stickied is the fact that I am sure it is incomplete, and perhaps badly formatted. There are a few things I have forgotten to address, or only recently just grasped completely, and I think I can offer an explanation for a few examples of training behaviour that apparently contradict this guide.

If you have ever fined a player 2 weeks wages then you may have seen an obvious change in his Determination or Work Rate attributes due to that fine, or a subtle change in his personality. It is slowly becoming obvious to myself that training schedules set the balance or proportion of attributes changes and contribute a quantity of increases at higher training intensities, but that actual attribute increases in players is determined by much more than training alone.

Indeed the greatest increases in attributes seem to come from young players around the age of 20 playing several consecutive matches, achieving high ratings and generally performing well, and in conjuction with a heavy, general training schedule. These are also players with a low CA but a very high PA. So for example a 20 year old player with good stats is far less likely to improve by the same degree than a 20 year old with low stats but high potential.

The end result of my observations goes something like this:

Current Ability vastly under Potential Ability

Playing Regularly = Rapid Attributes Increases.

High Ratings = Rapid Attribute Increases.

High Training = Rapid Attribute Increases.

Current Ability close to Potential Ability

Playing Regularly = Slow Increase or perhaps even Maintainance of Attributes.

High Ratings = Slow Increases.

High Training = Slow Increases.

Current Ability equal to Potential Ability

No room left for increases in attributes that count towards his PA score. Strikers may slowly increase in tackling or other such Position unrelated attributes, but cannot increase in Finishing for example under normal circumstances or without a decrease in a related attribute.

The answer to your question based on my observations and conclusions is that playing a young player regularly throughout your clubs youth team, reserves and first team in games where he can achieve decent ratings and alongside a good training schedule and good facilities is superior to the same course of action in a club with inferior training facilities. However depriving a youngster of both match experience and high ratings is vastly inferior to his development than good training facilities alone.

If you have a large squad and youth player with low CA and high PA then you have to decide whether or not he will gain the match experience, ratings and attention to training detail required to maximise his development. If not then you have to decide whether or not loaning him out would infact be of benefit to him, i.e. whether the reduction of quality in training is matched and surpassed by the benefits of regular football and a starring role in a lower league club.

The general conclusion of my observations is that actual improvements and changes to a players attributes depend upon his attitude, personality, happiness, quantity of playing time, match performances, managerial interaction, training schedules, intensity and facilities and even perhaps the level of the opposition and his performances in big matches and things like individual player awards and achievements.

It is speculative but perhaps warrented to surmise that every interaction and performance and achievement related to an individual player has a minor modifying influence towards his database statistics, and that all things when taken together produce small, medium or large changes to these statistics.

This seems a reasonable conclusion, but keep in mind that increased physical training has a direct and sometimes profound influence upon a players likelyhood to receive injuries as well as the rate at which he recovers his condition. In the real world intense physical training is usually reserved for Pre-Season training or for squad players that might only get ten starts a season.

This is a key point and what you say shows you are on the ball with regards to training.

General training often appears to be the best training schedule because it produces the greatest number of attribute increases. There is a reason for this and the reason is a quirk of the development principles of this game and has lead to exploits in the past.

The principle behind training is that each Position recognises its own set of specific stats that are key for this position, and these stats count towards a players Potential Ability score. The other stats are considered "free stats" and are NOT limited by a players PA score. This means that a Striker that has reached his PA can increase his tackling for "free" but can only increase his finishing if he loses an attribute point in another key stat. If a Striker has for example 10 ket stats recognised by the game and a PA of 200 then he can reach 20 in each stat. If he has a PA of 190 then he can reach 19 in each stat, or 19 in most stats, 20 in one stat, and 18 in another. All strikers can theoretically reach 20 in tackling without having to reduce points in other attributes first.

The problem with General training is that although it produces great players, it does not give the manager any control whatsoever for the redistribution of key attributes. General training will make Huntelaar a more balanced and well rounded player, but General training will never increase his finishing or off-the-ball when he has reached his PA.

To turn Huntelaar into the next Van Nistelrooy you need to purposely redistribute his key Striker attributes once he has reached his PA. Otherwise you will be left with a good solid and perhaps even great general player with good attacking talents, that simply never lives up to the sheer finishing and poaching potential he so obviously has. You could theoretically train Huntelaar so that he has 20 finishing, 20 anticipation, 20 off-the-ball, 20 composure, but this would require a vast attention to detail and a perfectly balanced individual schedule that purposely removes attributes from one area and adds them to another.

What you say about a team game is absolutely true. You could have 11 players that are near perfect in certain roles, or have a team that can play "total football" but you cannot train a perfect Striker through General training or a General Warrior through a Perfect Striker schedule.

I hope that helps clear up your questions.

So let me get this straight - If you have a 19 year old winger with CA 100 and PA 160, would it be best to keep him on a balanced training regime (general) until he is say, 22 and/or when his CA has risen to 150? Then when he has CA 150 and he is 22/23, then i can put him on a specialized winger regime to really brush up the skills that you want him to have. I think this would be good because when he is 22 he still has 6-7 years to reach his potiental in terms of stats and also protect against burnout. In my game at the moment there is this player who is 23, playing for england but he has CA 150 PA 165. But the thing is, he has the stats of a top striker and i was thinking to myself how can that be? Can you figure it out?

[ron.e]

In effect you could make your own training schedules based on age e.g

training schedule for 17-20

Less strengh and aerobic but more of the others so they improve in their physical attributes faster.

Training schedule for 21-24

I would say a general training regime for better balance so all areas of training are catered for.

Training for 24 and onwards

This is where i would put them on tugs training or something like that so the player can hopeful get the stats that are needed for his position e.g fast striker - finishing, composure, off the ball, pace and acc.

What do you think of the idea? obviously it all depends on the CA and PA. If i have a player who is 27 and he has CA 150 PA 160, i would put him on speciallized striker regime so if/when he reaches his PA and peak his stats will hopefully be distrubuted to the right places. At the same time if i have a 17 yrs old player with CA 102 PA 190, I would go through the process that i've mentioned at the beginning with 10 first team starts a season. Am i right or am i barking up the wrong tree Sfraser? Thanks

[SFraser]

So let me get this straight - If you have a 19 year old winger with CA 100 and PA 160, would it be best to keep him on a balanced training regime (general) until he is say, 22 and/or when his CA has risen to 150? Then when he has CA 150 and he is 22/23, then i can put him on a specialized winger regime to really brush up the skills that you want him to have. I think this would be good because when he is 22 he still has 6-7 years to reach his potiental in terms of stats and also protect against burnout.

Although a General training schedule where no training area is overly favoured above the rest will provide the greatest theoretical number of attribute increases in the shortest period of time, the extent to which attributes increase is deeply related to performances, playing time and the difference between CA/PA.

Your 19 year old winger is a player you hope to have a long career, is a player you hope to be able to introduce into 1st team football ASAP, is a player you want to watch closely over the next two years and manage his explosive introduction to football. To achieve this he needs to be effective in a certain way. He is a winger, so obviously he will have some favourable winger attributes which hint towards a future star for your club. He will not get his maximum rate of growth untill he is challenging for a first team spot and putting in blinding performances, and he will not get the chance to do so either on the pitch or through your teamsheet if he lacks the ability to offer something on the pitch. Now he can offer either 19 years worth of general football experience, intelligence and ability or he can offer 19 years worth of raw, explosive, narrow talent.

Clearly if you train him in general footballing ability and ask him to play how you are training him then he will be able to offer only mundane performances against low rate opposition. If you build up his pace, dribbling, off-the-ball etc. then he can come on for the last twenty minutes of a few matches and rip tired defenders to shreds, possibly scoring a few dramatic winners over the course of a season. The first will net you a bunch of 5s, 6s and 7s. The latter could net you a few 8s and 9s and a couple of goals out of say ten appearances. The first method is how no young attacking talent is introduced to football by top managers. The latter method is how every young starlet is handled by canny managers in the footballing world.

You want to develop young footballers to a level where they can do a job for the team, maybe excel in a particular job, but do little more than that job. You then want to use them in matches where they can do that job and achieve high ratings doing it. You want to develop your winger so that he is has the physical and technical attributes to be a threat to opposition fullbacks, and then use him late on in matches to exploit tactical space you have seen being left in defensive lines as well as opposition fatigue. This gives him the maximum opportunity to get high ratings with the minimum ability he has and the minimum time on the pitch he can handle.

Keep focusing on these key attributes for the next few seasons untill he has mastered his raw talent and peaked in the pure abilities of a young winger, or his own particular area of expertise, then develop the rest of his abilities into a more complete player over a longer period of time. Start off with an intensive custom designed schedule aimed at maximising his raw ability and over time slowly reduce it to a more General schedule aimed at keeping the balance of his raw talent while developing his general skills. As he gets older you may wish to begin removing the focus on his raw attacking attributes such as power and pace and crossing/finishing in favour of a more considered and clever player able to pass and move and construct attacks.

In my game at the moment there is this player who is 23, playing for england but he has CA 150 PA 165. But the thing is, he has the stats of a top striker and i was thinking to myself how can that be? Can you figure it out?

It is possible that he has maxed a set of attributes that make him a top striker, but that the game does not recognise as being top striker stats. I do not for absolute certainty know exactly what the complete relationship between PA, training and attributes are.

[ron.e]

Although a General training schedule where no training area is overly favoured above the rest will provide the greatest theoretical number of attribute increases in the shortest period of time, the extent to which attributes increase is deeply related to performances, playing time and the difference between CA/PA.

Your 19 year old winger is a player you hope to have a long career, is a player you hope to be able to introduce into 1st team football ASAP, is a player you want to watch closely over the next two years and manage his explosive introduction to football. To achieve this he needs to be effective in a certain way. He is a winger, so obviously he will have some favourable winger attributes which hint towards a future star for your club. He will not get his maximum rate of growth untill he is challenging for a first team spot and putting in blinding performances, and he will not get the chance to do so either on the pitch or through your teamsheet if he lacks the ability to offer something on the pitch. Now he can offer either 19 years worth of general football experience, intelligence and ability or he can offer 19 years worth of raw, explosive, narrow talent.

Clearly if you train him in general footballing ability and ask him to play how you are training him then he will be able to offer only mundane performances against low rate opposition. If you build up his pace, dribbling, off-the-ball etc. then he can come on for the last twenty minutes of a few matches and rip tired defenders to shreds, possibly scoring a few dramatic winners over the course of a season. The first will net you a bunch of 5s, 6s and 7s. The latter could net you a few 8s and 9s and a couple of goals out of say ten appearances. The first method is how no young attacking talent is introduced to football by top managers. The latter method is how every young starlet is handled by canny managers in the footballing world.

You want to develop young footballers to a level where they can do a job for the team, maybe excel in a particular job, but do little more than that job. You then want to use them in matches where they can do that job and achieve high ratings doing it. You want to develop your winger so that he is has the physical and technical attributes to be a threat to opposition fullbacks, and then use him late on in matches to exploit tactical space you have seen being left in defensive lines as well as opposition fatigue. This gives him the maximum opportunity to get high ratings with the minimum ability he has and the minimum time on the pitch he can handle.

Keep focusing on these key attributes for the next few seasons untill he has mastered his raw talent and peaked in the pure abilities of a young winger, or his own particular area of expertise, then develop the rest of his abilities into a more complete player over a longer period of time. Start off with an intensive custom designed schedule aimed at maximising his raw ability and over time slowly reduce it to a more General schedule aimed at keeping the balance of his raw talent while developing his general skills. As he gets older you may wish to begin removing the focus on his raw attacking attributes such as power and pace and crossing/finishing in favour of a more considered and clever player able to pass and move and construct attacks.

It is possible that he has maxed a set of attributes that make him a top striker, but that the game does not recognise as being top striker stats. I do not for absolute certainty know exactly what the complete relationship between PA, training and attributes are.

So are you saying that for tip-top winger it is best to put them on winger schedules that is intensive but not over the top. And watch and keep him on that schedule until maybe 23. then switch to a general training regime to balance out his stats to make him a complete player? obviously from the age of 19-23 i will intergrate him into reserve and first team football giving him maybe 5-10 first team starts against lower sides. If i can't get him into first team, is that when i make him availiable for loan?

Also what do you suggest i do with a player that has reach his potiental, 26-29? Should i put him on general training to 'maintain' his stats rather than trying to improve? Thanks again.

[SFraser]

So are you saying that for tip-top winger it is best to put them on winger schedules that is intensive but not over the top. And watch and keep him on that schedule until maybe 23. then switch to a general training regime to balance out his stats to make him a complete player? obviously from the age of 19-23 i will intergrate him into reserve and first team football giving him maybe 5-10 first team starts against lower sides. If i can't get him into first team, is that when i make him availiable for loan?

Also what do you suggest i do with a player that has reach his potiental, 26-29? Should i put him on general training to 'maintain' his stats rather than trying to improve? Thanks again.

If you are going all out micro management of a young player to achieve the best results then there are a few key points you need address, and these key points will remain the fundamentals of your man-management of this player for the rest of his career with you, and you should re-evaluate them atleast on a season by season basis.

The first point is to establish his overall ability bias from his attributes so you know if this "winger" is infact a winger or if he is better suited as an AMC or Striker, and if he is currently built better for another position then make a note of that and keep it in mind for your next decision. Then decide how you see him fitting into your squad in the short, medium and long term. If his favourite position is a winger but he is built like an AMC and you want him in the middle of the pitch in the short, medium or long term then you will need to incorporate position training into his schedule. If his favourite position is winger but he is built like an AMC and you can see a role for him on the wing playing as a creative wide man then you don't have to retrain his position and can save that extra training workload for attributes.

Once you have decided that he needs retraining for the right position or does not need retrained for another position you need to test him to find his training limits. Each player has two training limits after which he gets unhappy. The first is overall workload "X is not happy with the training intensity" etc. The second is fitness training specific "X is not happy with the high amount of fitness training" etc. You need to find both of those limits so you can balance both his fitness training levels and the overall schedule. You might as well waste a week or two doing high training for fitness and watching his reaction and hope he doesnt get injured. Then do the same for overall workload but keep fitness training low. This is pretty much a "stress test" for the player, and his limits will change throughout his career, so you need to repeat this atleast once a year.

You should now have a rough idea of how this player is likely to fit into your team, whether that is not at all this season or a heavy schedule of U18s, reserves and a few first team matches. You should also know what his training limits are for both physical training and overall workload. What you now need to do is focus on the key areas of his abilities that will allow him to challenge for a first team place in a season or two. You need to focus on his natural talent and develop it to a level where it can make up for his lack of development in other areas at first team level. This process may take a few seasons, but the key is to make sure you don't crush his natural talent into general mediocrity and ensure he does nothing well when he nears his twenties. Instead of focusing on a general improvement in attributes which wont help him early in his career you want to target his natural talent and develop his key attributes to a level where he is extremely good at these things, even if he is worse than bad at almost everything else. This will help him to perform when he gets his chance, and if you have a lot of young talent that is great in specific areas of the game it will help you as a manager when you have to deal with problems in your first team squad.

This is the key element of his development, the training schedule you construct for him based upon your ideas of his natural ability and core talent. You want a schedule that will accelerate the growth of these attributes by favouring those attributes instead of other attributes. A winger for example will need pace and technical skill so you need to favour Aerobics and Ball Control. You may have to sacrifice crossing and passing and shooting but it doesn't matter at this stage. So long as these attributes do not decline and his key attributes grow then he is developing well. You will have to spend a long time tweaking this schedule to get the right balance. You also need to pay attention to position training and PPMs. You may not want to train him in a PPM right now, but if he is a winger that can dribble then the PPM "runs with ball down right/left" will make sure that he does dribble with it when he gets a chance on the pitch.

With regards to the timing of all of this you really want to start as young as possible and move him through the ranks when he is both technically and mentally able to play football at those levels, but also when he is physically capable of coping with the matches. He should play a few reserves games when his is 16 and might even break into your first team squad at the age of 17. 19 is usually far too late for a player just breaking into the first team squad, let alone the reserves. If he is not a superstar of your U18 team by the time he is 17 then he probably doesnt have what it takes. The age of 18 is really crunch time for a youngster. He should ideally be challenging for a first team spot at 18 even though he cannot cope with a full season. If he is not at this level then consider loaning him out, but there is no way he should be in the U18s and playing occasional reserve football. If he is at your club at age of 18 then take the time to make sure he plays exactly enough games to satisfy his development without burning him out. If he plays only a few times for the 1st team then give him every reserve game and possibly a few or most of the U18s, but this is to keep him playing and keep him developing. It should never be because the reserves is the level of football he can cope with.

[Jophilo]

Hi,

very, very interesting topic there !!!

I have one question for you SFraser/ how to set the maximun level of workload. If i set it to Heavy or very heavy, will it be better than the last notc of medium ? And for the youngster do i have to set it to the first medium or can i go for heavy? I'm talking about the general level of workload, not the particulars (shoot, strenght...).

Thx

[RT--]

Can I just try and clarify something with regard to 'training levels'?

Are we saying that they effectively represent the *actual* distribution of training effort across the categories, for a player? So if I have a player on equal settings for every category, and I have a 5* coach in each of these categories, then any imbalance in what I see in the training levels is down to the player (and presumably underpinned by his playing attributes or personality) and his 'effort' that he's putting in to each area?

So the training 'input' is basically how I decide to set his training sliders, whereas the 'output' is dependent upon the relative quality of coaches for each training category and the player's own 'preference' for training areas? And it is, of course, the output that affects the probability of where the attributes get distributed...

[James8]

RT-- I'd say that's spot on!

[James8]

I have one question for you SFraser/ how to set the maximun level of workload. If i set it to Heavy or very heavy, will it be better than the last notc of medium ? And for the youngster do i have to set it to the first medium or can i go for heavy? I'm talking about the general level of workload, not the particulars (shoot, strenght...).

I basically asked this question a few posts up. If your player can cope with a 'heavy' workload without appearing 'unhappy with his training schedule' then this will increase his CA faster than if he was on a medium workload.

There will be a particular notch on the workload slider where the player changes from being 'happy with his training schedule' to being 'unhappy with his training schedule'. Finding this transition notch, which will be different for each player, will give you the maximum workload level. I say 'maximum' rather than 'optimum' because if the workload is in the 'heavy' region his condition might become too low before a match, which may not be what you want if you have a small squad and cannot rotate/rest players. In brief, for certain players in certain squads, a 'heavy' or even 'very heavy' workload may indeed be better.

Only trial and error will allow you to find this transition point for each player. My hope is that with a number of people looking at this we may in future be able to relate it to personality types etc.

How you then distribute individual training parts within the maximum workload will determine where attribute increases are distributed - RT--'s post above has described this nicely.

[Jophilo]

I basically asked this question a few posts up. If your player can cope with a 'heavy' workload without appearing 'unhappy with his training schedule' then this will increase his CA faster than if he was on a medium workload.

There will be a particular notch on the workload slider where the player changes from being 'happy with his training schedule' to being 'unhappy with his training schedule'. Finding this transition notch, which will be different for each player, will give you the maximum workload level. I say 'maximum' rather than 'optimum' because if the workload is in the 'heavy' region his condition might become too low before a match, which may not be what you want if you have a small squad and cannot rotate/rest players. In brief, for certain players in certain squads, a 'heavy' or even 'very heavy' workload may indeed be better.

Only trial and error will allow you to find this transition point for each player. My hope is that with a number of people looking at this we may in future be able to relate it to personality types etc.

How you then distribute individual training parts within the maximum workload will determine where attribute increases are distributed - RT--'s post above has described this nicely.

Thanks a lot for your help James8 ;-) .

[Lyssien]

Can I just try and clarify something with regard to 'training levels'?

Are we saying that they effectively represent the *actual* distribution of training effort across the categories, for a player? So if I have a player on equal settings for every category, and I have a 5* coach in each of these categories, then any imbalance in what I see in the training levels is down to the player (and presumably underpinned by his playing attributes or personality) and his 'effort' that he's putting in to each area?

So the training 'input' is basically how I decide to set his training sliders, whereas the 'output' is dependent upon the relative quality of coaches for each training category and the player's own 'preference' for training areas? And it is, of course, the output that affects the probability of where the attributes get distributed...

Yes. For developing players, the challenge is how to mess around with the sliders so that we get maximum training levels for the regimes we are interested in, without neglecting the rest (so that overall development is not hindered, as Sfraser has already explained). For mature players, the levels will show you how your "re-distribution" is going, and what attributes are probable to decrease in order to balance out the attributes you are trying to increase.

PS. Rashidi, it 's good that you are around again!

[ron.e]

Yes. For developing players, the challenge is how to mess around with the sliders so that we get maximum training levels for the regimes we are interested in, without neglecting the rest (so that overall development is not hindered, as Sfraser has already explained). For mature players, the levels will show you how your "re-distribution" is going, and what attributes are probable to decrease in order to balance out the attributes you are trying to increase.

PS. Rashidi, it 's good that you are around again!

When you say training levels do you mean the bars you see when you go into a players training overview and if so, how often is the info updated on the training overview screen anyway?

Also if that is right about messing around with the sliders to get the maxium for every player then would you have to make a training regime for each player or can you see have positional regimes?Thanks

[Lyssien]

When you say training levels do you mean the bars you see when you go into a players training overview and if so, how often is the info updated on the training overview screen anyway?

Also if that is right about messing around with the sliders to get the maxium for every player then would you have to make a training regime for each player or can you see have positional regimes?Thanks

Yes, I mean the bars at the bottom left corner of the player's training overview screen. (and, of course, by clicking one of them you can see its history on the bottom right corner). I think I have noticed them to update daily. They update gradually though, so the "training effort" they measure also includes past training effort. Past training effort since when? I think for the past month.

Unfortunately, this makes them tedious to study when we tweak the sliders, and only really allows comparison of different training schedules if we make the switch on the first day of the new month. Then, we can compare the effects of the different training schedules by studying the Training Progess bars for each regime. The Training Progress bars are monthly and that's the big problem.

Yes, in order to make optimal use of training you need player-specific schedules. That's because your left winger may respond very well to your "Wingers" schedule, but your right winger may not respond as well. You can still design a generic schedule that will do a good job for both, it will just not be optimal for both.

[ron.e]

When a player says that they are unhappy with workload is it best to put strenght and aerobic down a couple of notches or everything? Also can anyone tell me how often does the player happiness, update itself? Thanks

[James8]

When a player says that they are unhappy with workload is it best to put strenght and aerobic down a couple of notches or everything?

It depends what you want. If you only reduce physical training then you may see physical attributes decline. I would tend to suggest that if you are satisfied with the balance of the sliders then it is just the overall workload slider which needs to be reduced until the player becomes happy.

Also can anyone tell me how often does the player happiness, update itself? Thanks

Not yet. I asked this earlier - it is thought to be less than a week. Please feel free to test this out and post your observations.

[James8]

I posted earlier that I was looking into numbering the training sliders. I haven't achieved this yet but my efforts are ongoing.

My observations of the training sliders is that the workload can have a tendency to 'jump' backwards a number of notches when the individual category sliders are changed. In terms of tring to find an optimal workload for each player I think we need to get the sliders to display the notch number rather than relying on counting manually. For example, the workload slider has 131 notches which is labourious to count along for X number of players.

[Lyssien]

When a player says that they are unhappy with workload is it best to put strenght and aerobic down a couple of notches or everything?

James is right, if you are using a balanced schedule. On the other hand, you may be able to get away with reducing something else too (e.g. Defending for strikers etc), you 'll just need to reduce it further, because the rest of the regimes are not as heavy as the physical ones. Also, if the physical sliders are already the highest ones, you can reduce them alone a bit, yes.

There is a second training unhappiness message, which reads "Unhappy with high physical workload", and may come up when the player is specifically unhappy with the physical sliders. Provided that the physical sliders are already higher than the rest, in this case you might want to reduce them alone.

In terms of workload distribution and development, you need to think about the balance of your schedule too. E.g., even if the finishing of you striker is already 20, you don't necessarily want to reduce the Shooting slider with respect to the other sliders, because you are risking reducing Finishing in order to increase something else!

[brandonk]

After update Patch 9.3, all my training rating bcame low even my coach attributes so high (20). Why?

[Lyssien]

Brandonk, the formulas for achieving 7 stars in training have changed. SI says that the previous stars were wrong and the new ones are right. See here the formulas for achieving 7 star training with 9.3:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=106997

[danish chelsea]

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OIELMHK0

My schedules ready for download. This is the same as for 08, so its not tweaked for 09. Feel free to use them and upload them on other pages, would be nice with some feedback and suggestion for tweaking etc.

hI... cAN upload to some other site please? Download limit exceeded for this one.. Thanks in advance...

[ron.e]

I need some advice. I've decided to make make custom training regimes for this player. He has CA 112 PA 164.

He has just hit the roof with his stats. The question i'm asking is, do you think it's a good idea for every player between 16-20 to have specific regimes with as higher workload without them becoming unhappy, and then when they hit 21yrs old, to put them on tugs training or something like that? Also he is a mc, and in his description one week it says he's similar to my dmc and then the next it says that he is more like my amc. So where to you think i should re-train him? Thanks

[Lyssien]

I did some testing and figured out that Training Levels and Training Happiness update once a week. That's Sunday in my game. More on this soon.

Ron.e,

What tactic are you playing, it all depends on what you need.

However, that player's advantages are:

Free Kick taking/Long Shots/Technique --> good free kick taker (either now or in the future)

Teamowrk/Work Rate --> good for all midfielders

Creativity/Passing/Technique/Teamwork --> great passer, through balls etc

Speed/Agility (but probably no dribbling and no flair)

Stamina/Strength (in the future)

Decisions and Positioning (but no off the ball)

On the other hand, he's bad at

dribbling/off the ball --> probably not an ideal AMC

Concentration --> not an ideal DMC at this point, but this will develop

OK, so if he were MY player, I would make him a "support MC". I play 4-1-4-1, so I need one DMC, 1 MCa and one MC to support both, which would be him (help defensively, but also pass the ball forward). If you are playing the 4-4-2 kind, it's less clear-cut what to do with him, probably he should be an MCd, but I am less experienced with 4-4-2. He can also be a deep playmaker, if you are following the Tactics Framework thread.

So, if I were to make him my support MC in 4-1-4-1, I 'd focus on:

- Attacking (to make him a great passer)

- Ball Control (needs good Technique and First touch)

- and also Free kick taker (focus strongly on Set Pieces and Ball Control, and also develop normally his Long Shots)

I would also try to develop slowly his Defensive and Strength/Stamina attributes.

On the other hand, his speed would not be as important to me because of the position I 'd play him in, so I might not care for speed so much. Therefore, I 'd focus strongly on Attacking, Ball Control, and Set Pieces, I would try to also keep developing Defensive, Tactics, Strength, Shooting, and I would either maintain or sacrifice some speed.

But I repeat, it all comes down to how you are planning to use him in your tactic.

PS. I don't know what Tug's Training is like, because I 've seen no screenies and am too bored to download it. Is it the one that has more Attacking training for Strikers than Shooting? Genrally speaking, have a plan for the player and stick to it. Design the schedule, watch how it goes, and tweak to perfect it.

[ron.e]

Thanks for the advice. I've decided to start a brand new game and try and build a career.So in terms of player development what you're saying is, when it comes to training it's about where and how you want the player to play rather than just put him on any schedule and hope for the best? The info you have given me has really made me think about things a lot more. In my last game i just bought promising youngsters for the fun of it but isn't it true that you can have too many promising players to the point where you are never going to be able to fit them in? Also wouldn't it be wise when buying a player to look at their strenghts and maintain them but look more at weakness and focus on them more? Thanks

[SFraser]

In my last game i just bought promising youngsters for the fun of it but isn't it true that you can have too many promising players to the point where you are never going to be able to fit them in?

This is very true and a vital part of player development I always try to bring up whenever the opportunity arises. Fitting players into a team is one the key aspects of management outside of match tactics.

Also wouldn't it be wise when buying a player to look at their strenghts and maintain them but look more at weakness and focus on them more? Thanks

When they are young and underdeveloped you want to think about maximising their strengths so they can come on and do a specific job to a high level and ensure quality match performances and high ratings. When they are older you want to think about developing the areas of the game they are weak at, to enhance their raw talent with some wider general footballing ability, so they can become a greater threat or greater performer in areas of the game they are not naturally talented in.

When they reach the age of 30+ you want to think about maintaining the areas of their game that they excel at, but also that are functional for their age, and try to manage the decline of less important areas alongside managing their involvement in the team at key point. It is much like managing a youth player except the older player is good and getting worse, not poor and getting better.

[ron.e]

Thanks for the advice Sfraser. When i say fitting in i mean giving them all their first team chance. Especially when they are around the same age and same positions. By what you're saying, do you mean this:-

16-22 Give me personal regimes that bring out the best in their strenghts e.g if a youngsters a central midfielder and i decided to make them into Mcd, if they have positioning and tackling at 12 then i would focus on those areas. Am i right?

22-28 I really don't know what to do with players like this. Any suggestions? Maybe a general regime to make them good all-round players.

28-32 I was thinking of putting them on speciallised training regimes like tugs that will train them on the stats that are needed for the position. Am i right?

Have i got it completely wrong? If i am right about this, does it matter whether i'm at a top 4 club or a conference team? and do you think it's a good idea to have regimes for every single player at the club? sorry for all the questions. Thanks

[Lyssien]

Training Updating

OK, so Training is updated once a week. That's Sunday for me in the greek league, but people 'd better check whether it's the same day in their league too. So on Sunday the Training Levels are updated and Training Happiness too. Arrows in squad training screen are updated then too. That's when the game looks at each player's training schedule.

Consequeces:

- It does not matter what training schedule the player has during the week, it only matters what he has enter Sunday.

- Training Levels only take into account the schedules enter Sunday. So they are not gradual as I thought.

- If a player is unhappy with training, the message will not go away till Sunday, even if you have lowered his workload considerably.

- It probably does not make sense to lighten workload after games (when condition is low) in order to avoid injuries, because the game probably does not find out. "Rest days" are a different matter, see below.

Still to find out:

- If training is only updated on Sunday, how is injury probability calculated with respect to current condition and how does the training schedule affect them?

- How are "Rest days" calculated into a player's condition?

PS. Ron, I 'll write my opinion to your last post later.

[Flek]

Hi what MID stands for in your training?