[Croatia] (Official) League Specific Issues

[Dan Ormsby]

Please post any specific issues for Croatia competitions here. This is for any issue which does not relate to data and is for areas such as:

- Competition Rules (Leagues and Cups)
- Disciplinary Rules
- Transfer Rules

We would request you all to adhere to the following three point plan when posting in here:

- State what you think is specifically wrong in your league.
- State how you think it should be working.
- State reasons/proof for your corrections/improvements.

Please note that specific data issues for Croatia should be posted in the Database and Research Issues forum.

[henrystowell]

Transfer windows for Croatian League next season are set for the year 1900

[Dan Ormsby]

12 minutes ago, henrystowell said:

Transfer windows for Croatian League next season are set for the year 1900

Thanks, this is a display issue with the "next season" tab which I will log in our system now.  The actual transfer windows are fine if you continue to the next season.

[nikiforenko010]

This season in real life is 5 subs allowed, in game you put 3 allowed this season in rules.

From season 2021/2022 there is no playoff relegation, in that season last placed is relegated to second divison, and from second division first placed is promoted, there is no playoff with 9th form first league and 2nd from second league.

Also in second division from 2021/2022(including that) there is 16 teams, and from 2022/2023(including that) 12 clubs and there is one unique third division with 16 teams.

Also current season is last season for B teams in second division, from 2021/2022 the higher allowed division for B teams is Third division.

From 2022/2023 there is new sponsorship for TV deals for about 10 millions euro for whole for whole croatian pyramide, from that 10mil for first division(future Elite divison) wwill gone 9 mil, and rest to rest of divisions.

Edited November 11, 2020 by nikiforenko010

[Sebastian Szlenkier]

@nikiforenko010Thank you, could you provide a source for all of these and we will get this looked at on the back of that. Thank you.

[nikiforenko010]

https://hns-cff.hr/files/documents/19083/Propozicije natjecanja Druge HNL 20-21.pdf

Official Croatia football association. it is on croatia language

On page number 10, you can see under "Članak 41." you can see "U natjecateljskoj godini 2021./2022. Drugu HNL činit će 16 klubova i to:" and that mean - "in season 2021/2022 Druga HNL( it means second division) there will be 16 teams/clubs.

in your game is always 18 teams this and next season in second division.

 

 

also https://hns-cff.hr/files/documents/19082/Propozicije natjecanja HT Prve lige 2020-21-1.pdf

on page 11 under "članak 43" it says "Na kraju natjecateljske godine 2020./2021. ligu obvezno napušta klub plasiran na posljednjem (10.) mjestu na tablici." which means " at the end of season 2020/2021 last placed team(10th) is relegated" . there is no playoffs for 9th from first division and 2nd from second division.

 

Same document on page 5 under "članak 17" it says "Na utakmicama HT Prve lige može biti imenovano i u zapisnik upisano najviše devet (9) zamjenskih igrača i od kojih u igru može ući najviše pet (5) igrača..." , it means " on matches in First Division(HT Prva liga) it is allowed 9 sub players and you can use 5..."

 

 

All regulations you can see there on official site https://hns-cff.hr/en/hns/regulations-and-documents/ , it is only one official site.

 

 

also official site said : https://hns-cff.hr/en/news/21556/hns-signs-with-new-broadcasting-partner-endorphin/

 

it is on english language also, so new tv deals sponsorship. There is no exactly money amount but after that it is said that is aronud 9-10 mil for first division. But probably every First Division team will get from 600k- to 1.mil euros, because ALL MATCHES are LIVE ON TV BROADCASTER right now, but now is money prize very low, but you can read form season 2022/2023 there is this new sponsor who will also broadcast ALL MATCHES LIVE but prize is very very higher.

So you need to rise tv sponsorship rights, you do not need to put 1 million per teams but you must increase tv rights money because is it official.

 

is it ok? or you need more proves? maybe i can find some on english?!

Edited November 11, 2020 by nikiforenko010

[Sebastian Szlenkier]

Thank you very much, these are now logged. 

18 hours ago, nikiforenko010 said:

Also current season is last season for B teams in second division, from 2021/2022 the higher allowed division for B teams is Third division.

Do you have a source for rule? Thank you very much for bringing all of these to our attention.

 

18 hours ago, nikiforenko010 said:

Also in second division from 2021/2022(including that) there is 16 teams, and from 2022/2023(including that) 12 clubs and there is one unique third division with 16 teams.

Also, we currently logged the Second Division having 16 teams for 2021/22, do you have a source for what you mentioned happening in the 2022/23 season?

[nikiforenko010]

hi, so, here https://hns-cff.hr/files/documents/19044/Glasnik-34-2020.pdf , this is again the same official croatian football federation site, this link is official CFF (croatian football federation) newsletter number 34 from 24.july.2020. All of this are officially decisions made by CFF and president of CFF Davor Šuker, at first page and at end of chapter you can see Davor Šuker sign, this is all also officially like all previous.

so this is official newsletter, all links before are regular propositions which CFF publish just month-two before season starts. This newsletter is not published yet like these regulations in my previous post.

At July 2021. this newsletter will be published in "competition regulations" thread on official CFF site.

on that link on page 4 , at row b) you can see season 2021/22 where it said - "Natjecanje se održava sa šesnaest klubova po dvostrukom bod sustavu (ukupno 30 kola)" ... that means "Competition maintains 16 clubs ( "šesnaest"is number16 by letters) with 30 games played each other twice.

This is what i already write you at post before, because it is next season and CFF made Offisial propositions document.

 

at same page under c) season 2022/2023 , it said "Natjecanje se održava s dvanaest klubova po trostrukom bod sustavu (33 kola) ili dvostrukom bod sustavu (22. Kola) + liga za prvaka (1-6) i liga za opstanak (7-12) obje po dvostrukom bod sustavu, što će biti određeno propozicijama natjecanja." .... that translate is "Competition will maintain 12 clubs ( "dvanaest" means number 12 by letters) , and there will be 33 games( 3 time each other) OR 22 games twice each other and then split from 1st to 6th and from 7th to 12th twice each other, that will be determined by propositions few month before start of season.

 

So, decision is 12 clubs(official) , but right now only what it is not specified is -three times each other or twice with split league after that, but 12 teams official sure. And that is why they can not compose "Competition regulation for 22/23" yet.

 

Information about B clubs higher allowed in third division is not finally decision, but there is like "rebellion" by teams from second division because when there will be 12 teams at 2022/2023 there is chance for 4 Bteams which can not be promoted to First division, so there will be only 8 teams fighting for First division , ant that was as Meeting item this summer but there is no official yet, but chanches are 90%.

So that i can not prove you, so about B teams you can leave it as it was already.

 

All my links are CFF links.

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by nikiforenko010

[Luke Cro]

There are also some substitution rules that need to be fixed. Probably measure because of corona virus. They are valid for season 2020/2021, but at this moment it is not known are those rules going to be applied for future seasons.

1st league: 5 of 9

2nd league: 5 of 9

3rd league: 5 of 7

Croatian Cup: 5 of 9

Junior league: 7 of 7

 

[franjo17]

Also, from the same file that user nikiforenko010 linked (https://hns-cff.hr/files/documents/19082/Propozicije natjecanja HT Prve lige 2020-21-1.pdf), article 16. states: "U natjecanju Hrvatski Telekom Prve lige, dopušten je nastup šest (6) igrača strana državljana na utakmici." - which would translate that in Croatian First division, 6 FGN players are allowed to play in first 11. Rule is the same as it was in FM 2020 after the update.

Edited November 19, 2020 by franjo17

[nikiforenko010]

yes, in game there is 5 NON-EU rule, must be 6 like @franjo17said. that link is official proposition , it is not newsletter 

[nikiforenko010]

here https://hns-cff.hr/files/documents/19083/Propozicije natjecanja Druge HNL 20-21.pdf at članak 14 said ---Igrači profesionalnog kluba koji su prijavljeni za drugu momčad mogu nastupati za prvu momčad. Ako igrač koji je na dan 01.07. tekuće natjecateljske godine bio stariji od 21 godine i prijavljen je za drugu momčad, pet (5) puta nastupi za prvu momčad na prvenstvenoj utakmici u toj natjecateljskoj godini gubi pravo nastupa za drugu momčad.

that means that players over 21 years who played 5 (five) games for first team can not play for B teams, in game there is rule for 3 games, it it not true, you need to change it to 5 games maximum.

also at članak 15 for second division there is 3 NON-EU rule, in game there is 2 NON-eu rule, it is wrong. and also 9 subs and allowed 5 (for first seaosen) in game is 7/3

also for first division and second division https://hns-cff.hr/files/documents/19082/Propozicije natjecanja HT Prve lige 2020-21-1.pdf at članak 15 it said that 16 years old player can perform for first team if he have specialist medical examination.

 

[Sebastian Szlenkier]

42 minutes ago, nikiforenko010 said:

yes, in game there is 5 NON-EU rule, must be 6 like @franjo17said. that link is official proposition , it is not newsletter 

But has this rule been implemented officially in that case? Do you have a link to a document outlining that it is officially being used rather than just the proposition?

[Sebastian Szlenkier]

50 minutes ago, nikiforenko010 said:

that means that players over 21 years who played 5 (five) games for first team can not play for B teams, in game there is rule for 3 games, it it not true, you need to change it to 5 games maximum.

also at članak 15 for second division there is 3 NON-EU rule, in game there is 2 NON-eu rule, it is wrong. and also 9 subs and allowed 5 (for first seaosen) in game is 7/3

Thanks, this is logged and under review.

[nikiforenko010]

30 minutes ago, Sebastian Szlenkier said:

But has this rule been implemented officially in that case? Do you have a link to a document outlining that it is officially being used rather than just the proposition?

@franjo17 linked you the official propositions , so that is official proposition document from official croatian federation site. there is no more official document that this.

[Sebastian Szlenkier]

1 hour ago, franjo17 said:

Also, from the same file that user nikiforenko010 linked (https://hns-cff.hr/files/documents/19082/Propozicije natjecanja HT Prve lige 2020-21-1.pdf), article 16. states: "U natjecanju Hrvatski Telekom Prve lige, dopušten je nastup šest (6) igrača strana državljana na utakmici." - which would translate that in Croatian First division, 6 FGN players are allowed to play in first 11. Rule is the same as it was in FM 2020 after the update.

Thanks, this is now logged and under review.

[franjo17]

@nikiforenko010 mislim da ga zajebava riječ "proposition" - kod nas "propozicije", a on misli da je to "prijedlog"....

 

@Sebastian Szlenkier

all the rules that are published on hns-cff.hr are official...

word "propozicije" in croatian documents should be translated as "rules", as it is document where every area of competition is covered...

note to myself: contact Croatian Football Federation to translate most important documents to english if it isn't done yet...

 

 

[Sebastian Szlenkier]

Either way these our logged now and under review, thanks.

[nikiforenko010]

@franjo17 moguće. samo ne znan kako ove Glasnike objasnit

So, like franjo17 said, propositions not mean suggestions , it is official published rules.

 

so every document where you see "propozicije" is  official, it is accepted and it is in use.

i mentioned and linked some newsletters, that is news for future regulations brought by CFF special duty and it will be most likely published few months before next seasons start. They are not some media or newspaper speculations.

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by nikiforenko010

[nikiforenko010]

On 11/11/2020 at 15:18, nikiforenko010 said:

https://hns-cff.hr/files/documents/19083/Propozicije natjecanja Druge HNL 20-21.pdf

Official Croatia football association. it is on croatia language

On page number 10, you can see under "Članak 41." you can see "U natjecateljskoj godini 2021./2022. Drugu HNL činit će 16 klubova i to:" and that mean - "in season 2021/2022 Druga HNL( it means second division) there will be 16 teams/clubs.

in your game is always 18 teams this and next season in second division.

 

so this is not fixed? 

Official document from official federation, already signed and adopted.

I understand you do not put 12 teams in second division in 2022/203 because it it only official newsletter, but 16 teams in 2021/2022 are official document.

Instead of that you putted speculation and unoffical proposal about non-eu in first division, but you dont want put officail 16 teams in second division.

Edited November 23, 2020 by nikiforenko010

[nikiforenko010]

also 5 NON-EU are rule in game, true rule is 6.

5 NON eu was speculations, so you putted some media speculation and proposal information, 6 non eu is rule from official document and it is accepted, signed and in use in RL.

[Dan Ormsby]

2 minutes ago, nikiforenko010 said:

also 5 NON-EU are rule in game, true rule is 6.

5 NON eu was speculations, so you putted some media speculation and proposal information, 6 non eu is rule from official document and it is accepted, signed and in use in RL.

You raised these very recently and they are logged.  Thank you for this.  The information came to us after our internal deadlines for release.  They will be included in an update.

[nikiforenko010]

16 years old can play in league.

Example of Roko Simic and Karlo Lusavec this season.

[franjo17]

Can you check if this could be bug.

So, in Croatian first division, there is a rule that "Minimum 6 players trained by "team" or trained in Croatia for 4 years between 12th and 19th birthdays".

It seems that new regens do not get this HGN label.

For example, this is my regen, and he does not have the label:

 

 

Also, regen that I've bought doesn't have the label:

 

 

Both players have status - trained in nation:

 

 

Every regen in Croatian club should automacally get HGN label.

If I'm not correct, please correct me, but if regen is created as 16 years old, there is no way he could get HGN status (16+4=20), and in couple of years time, there will be no HGN players in Croatian first division.

[franjo17]

I've simulated to season 2029 with new game, and it is true. This is definitivly a bug.

Look at Dinamo Zagreb Roster:

Hajduk Split:

 

 

Rijeka:

 

Clubs cannot have 6 HGN players.

Please fix so that every regen automatically gets HGN status for Croatian First Division rule:

[Dan Ormsby]

On 28/11/2020 at 20:46, franjo17 said:

Please fix so that every regen automatically gets HGN status for Croatian First Division rule:

Thanks, I'm looking into this now.

[franjo17]

OK. Please give us answer when you have one.

[Laarko]

Teams in 1.HNL are allowed to substitute 5 players, in-game its still 3. 

[nikiforenko010]

5subs is just first season.

@Dan Ormsby so if this is true what franjo17 said about HGN players, that mean that we can not play Croatian League on long-term saves because we cant have enough HGN players for match squad.

I just finished 4rd season and what now? i need to wait new update and start new save, so this save i can delete already?

I always and only play croatian league, i buy game and cant play it??

[Dan Ormsby]

Firstly, many thanks to franjo17 for pointing this bug out to us.  The issue is valid and is being worked on as a priority by our coders.  I do apologise for its unfortunate inclusion, but hopefully you can appreciate this was a very difficult one to spot as it would not have become apparent for multiple seasons.  Regarding the substitute / foreign player limit rule changes, unfortunately we were not supplied this information by our head researcher.  I believe we have now been made aware of all the changes required and these will be included in a future update, along with a fix for the newgen homegrown issue.  Apologies and thanks for your patience.

[nikiforenko010]

Yes, i know it was hard to spot, but that can affect for everyone who loaded up croatian league and not playing with it because croatian clubs will not be competetive in european competetions like UCL because they wont have enough players, i hope this will be fixed soon if this is just problem in Croatia and not in all leagues in game.

Second, who is head researcher for Croatia league rules? Because there is official croatian federation site and all rules are on that site on croatian language, i linked few times that official document about foreign players and 16 years old, so maybe i can contact head researcher directly and explain all that? I do not know what more to do, i tought that official documents will be enough evidence.

[Dan Ormsby]

1 minute ago, nikiforenko010 said:

Yes, i know it was hard to spot, but that can affect for everyone who loaded up croatian league and not playing with it because croatian clubs will not be competetive in european competetions like UCL because they wont have enough players, i hope this will be fixed soon if this is just problem in Croatia and not in all leagues in game.

Second, who is head researcher for Croatia league rules? Because there is official croatian federation site and all rules are on that site on croatian language, i linked few times that official document about foreign players and 16 years old, so maybe i can contact head researcher directly and explain all that? I do not know what more to do, i tought that official documents will be enough evidence.

Yes, thank you for this.  I think you misunderstand me.  We received the information on the forums here and are very grateful for you and other users for providing this.  We have this logged in our system to change and have verified it is valid, so we now have this information and will be making changes that will be in a future update.

The issue with newgens came about due to a rule which I think may be unique to Croatia that players must play 4 years between 12 and 19 to count as homegrown.  As this is a new and unique rule, there was a discrepancy in the existing code which didn't account for newgens in this way.  As I say, we are fixing this as a priority that Croatian newgens will count as Croatian homegrown after an appropriate amount of time and it will be included in a future update.  Thanks.

[nikiforenko010]

oh, sorry, i understand now that about rules and your logging system.

In second division match squad requires even 10 players trained by club, for about ten years in game all Croatian leagues will not exist anymore haha

Ok, thanks, i will not disturb you more about this.

 

What about second division 16 clubs next season instead of 18, it is also official. So next season is 16 teams and  from that last team is relegated and one team from Third division(five of them) playoff cup is promoted.

SO now this season 16th, 17th and 18th team is relegated and one from Third division playoff(five of thema) cup is promoted and that count 16 teams.

I mentioned even 12 clubs from 2022/2023 but that is just newsletter it is not on official document like this 16 teams.

[Dan Ormsby]

23 minutes ago, nikiforenko010 said:

oh, sorry, i understand now that about rules and your logging system.

In second division match squad requires even 10 players trained by club, for about ten years in game all Croatian leagues will not exist anymore haha

Ok, thanks, i will not disturb you more about this.

 

What about second division 16 clubs next season instead of 18, it is also official. So next season is 16 teams and  from that last team is relegated and one team from Third division(five of them) playoff cup is promoted.

SO now this season 16th, 17th and 18th team is relegated and one from Third division playoff(five of thema) cup is promoted and that count 16 teams.

I mentioned even 12 clubs from 2022/2023 but that is just newsletter it is not on official document like this 16 teams.

Yes, we are also making some changes to the amount of teams in the Second League.  Thanks.

[nikiforenko010]

Can you tell me if you know at this phase of fixing, when you fix HGN problem it will be save game compatible or i will need start new gama?

[nikiforenko010]

this is only solution.

There is 12 subs , so you can play without HGN but only put 6 subs on bench

[nikiforenko010]

when you register team for champions league then there is HGN sign.
but when you play in league then players dont get HGN sign

here is example of one regen 17 years old player who is AUTOMATIC HGN IN CHAMPIONS LEAGUE but not in League

Edited December 2, 2020 by nikiforenko010

[franjo17]

@Dan Ormsby, thank you for prompt reaction. Hopefully, this bug will be fixed in the next hotfix. @nikiforenko010, great job with the screenshots.

As I was employee of Croatian Football Federation 10 years ago, and since then I'm working as a kind of club official for two clubs, if your head researcher for croatia has any question, he can contact me.

[nikiforenko010]

There is on otjer site said in first row some changes including croatia, but in your post on this forum there is no Croatia changed listed.

[Dan Ormsby]

20 hours ago, nikiforenko010 said:

when you register team for champions league then there is HGN sign.
but when you play in league then players dont get HGN sign

here is example of one regen 17 years old player who is AUTOMATIC HGN IN CHAMPIONS LEAGUE but not in League

This is because the homegrown rules are different for the different competitions.  Our head researcher specifically requested the rule for the league was "4 years between the ages of 12 and 19".  This I believe is the correct rule, but what caused the problem is the existing code was not set up to deal with newgens, who mainly generate at the ages of 16 or 17.  The Champions League rule is "3 years between the ages of 15 and 21" which the vast majority of newgens will achieve.  As I say, we are working on a fix as a priority for a future update.

[Dan Ormsby]

7 hours ago, nikiforenko010 said:

There is on otjer site said in first row some changes including croatia, but in your post on this forum there is no Croatia changed listed.

Apologies for this, it is a human error on the part of somebody that is not me!  There were no changes made for Croatia for this particular "hotfix".  As I say, we are working on fixes for the next major update as a priority.  Thanks. 

[nikiforenko010]

1 hour ago, Dan Ormsby said:

This is because the homegrown rules are different for the different competitions.  Our head researcher specifically requested the rule for the league was "4 years between the ages of 12 and 19".  This I believe is the correct rule, but what caused the problem is the existing code was not set up to deal with newgens, who mainly generate at the ages of 16 or 17.  The Champions League rule is "3 years between the ages of 15 and 21" which the vast majority of newgens will achieve.  As I say, we are working on a fix as a priority for a future update.

Yes, that is correct rule according to CFF document.

yes, newly generated 17years old is automatic HGN in Champions League no matter that is his first year/season but in league  he is not.

[nikiforenko010]

we are Football Manager community from Croatia called Cro-manager , and some of us are played in Editor and put this , and 16 years old newgen is HGN.

i know it is not correct rule, but this is only way to play 

[KaLu9]

Will the new update for the new rules and Homegrown issue be save compatible ?

[Shroom]

10 hours ago, KaLu9 said:

Will the new update for the new rules and Homegrown issue be save compatible ?

@Dan Ormsby I would like to know this too,so as to not potentially waste time with existing saves.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Shroom

[Dan Ormsby]

On 04/12/2020 at 20:53, Shroom said:

@Dan Ormsby I would like to know this too,so as to not potentially waste time with existing saves.

Limited as to what I can guarantee, but we are working on the homegrown newgens issue internally with the aim of making it fully save game compatible.  The rule changes I'm afraid will not be save game compatible, you will need to start a new save to pick up the rule changes.

[KaLu9]

15 hours ago, Dan Ormsby said:

Limited as to what I can guarantee, but we are working on the homegrown newgens issue internally with the aim of making it fully save game compatible.  The rule changes I'm afraid will not be save game compatible, you will need to start a new save to pick up the rule changes.

Can we expect the new changes in the next hotfix, I only play Croatian league, I would really like to start a fm21 save.

[iifever22]

On 28/11/2020 at 20:46, franjo17 said:

I've simulated to season 2029 with new game, and it is true. This is definitivly a bug.

Look at Dinamo Zagreb Roster:

Hajduk Split:

 

 

Rijeka:

 

Clubs cannot have 6 HGN players.

Please fix so that every regen automatically gets HGN status for Croatian First Division rule:

This is definitely a bug. I've been reporting this for a while (and being ignored). Several seasons ahead, I had issues when none of my home grown players actually got HGN icon. Champions League registration marks them as HGNs, while Croatian League does not. Because of this I stopped playing for a week, re-installed today, and nothing is fixed. This is serious bug.

 

[nikiforenko010]

@Dan Ormsby any news? When we can expect to finally start playing game , some of us only play in Croatia, i started on day one and i am in 2027 year and i need to wait for HGN fix now. I payed for game which i cant play now.

[Dan Ormsby]

22 minutes ago, nikiforenko010 said:

@Dan Ormsby any news? When we can expect to finally start playing game , some of us only play in Croatia, i started on day one and i am in 2027 year and i need to wait for HGN fix now. I payed for game which i cant play now.

As I've previously said I'm afraid I can't provide dates or times or anything, even if I knew them.  All I can do is apologise for the wait.