Jump to content

FM20 Experiment - Goalkeeper as striker in Liverpool (Inspired by Phil Jones ✕ Paris Saint-Germain)


Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Viking said:

Well... I'm 52 and could'nt run 5 meters straight to save my life, and would score a goal per game with those players behind me.

But on a serious note, and just out of curiosity: whats Bens versitality?

such ignorance

I know you love FM but damn.

This is premier league, against premier league defenders 

Edited by kingking
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 300
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Bloody Hell. This gives me the feeling that Attributes doesn't matter much. I really hope it wasn't the case but watching 2 GK's scoring goals in double digits over a season in what is probably toughest league with a top team against Low / Deep Blocks is not acceptable at any case and still this feels much worse.   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, ferrarinseb said:

Bloody Hell. This gives me the feeling that Attributes doesn't matter much. I really hope it wasn't the case but watching 2 GK's scoring goals in double digits over a season in what is probably toughest league with a top team against Low / Deep Blocks is not acceptable at any case and still this feels much worse.   

Exactly. And if attributes don’t matter....what does?

Link to post
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, ferrarinseb said:

Bloody Hell. This gives me the feeling that Attributes doesn't matter much. I really hope it wasn't the case but watching 2 GK's scoring goals in double digits over a season in what is probably toughest league with a top team against Low / Deep Blocks is not acceptable at any case and still this feels much worse.   

15 matches, counting from the Community Shield, Ben has 5 open play goals. That's not great in general, but it's more than I expected. 

I'd be interested to see how they actually fare against deep blocks. The first 6 months are usually quite easy because teams haven't adjusted yet.

Tbh, I don't know what their technical attributes as an outfield player is. I was looking for things like Finishing, but don't see it on the profile. Has it shown up since they've played outfield roles, @russell9?

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, HUNT3R said:

15 matches, counting from the Community Shield, Ben has 5 open play goals. That's not great in general, but it's more than I expected. 

I'd be interested to see how they actually fare against deep blocks. The first 6 months are usually quite easy because teams haven't adjusted yet.

Tbh, I don't know what their technical attributes as an outfield player is. I was looking for things like Finishing, but don't see it on the profile. Has it shown up since they've played outfield roles, @russell9?

I too would like to see the profile.

But i don't think first 6 months can be applied here given they are still under learning an entirely new position for them with a one or 2 young GK's which means they don't have enough CA either to be a proper Prem Keeper let alone a Prem striker. The Teams can just sit deep and these guys should have lot of issue. Even 5 so far is in my view is higher.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, ferrarinseb said:

The Teams can just sit deep and these guys should have lot of issue.

That's what I was getting at. IF teams do start sitting deep in the 2nd half of the season, they should be struggling a lot more. But that said, even with the quality supply they most likely get, I was surprised to see Ben score that many. FWIW, I haven't counted what the other keeper did. I just saw Ben's name a lot.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, HUNT3R said:

That's what I was getting at. IF teams do start sitting deep in the 2nd half of the season, they should be struggling a lot more. But that said, even with the quality supply they most likely get, I was surprised to see Ben score that many. FWIW, I haven't counted what the other keeper did. I just saw Ben's name a lot.

Well lets wait how this experiment goes and see how much more they can get. Their OTB couldn't be higher so i really wonder how on earth they are getting into the positions which a striker does. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone who tries to make excuses how this doesn't raise massive questions is deluded. In no right mind would a GK be performing like this up top! Shows how first Gegen press is so overpowered that a good team can provide a GK yes a goalkeeper to score 8 goals in 10!! And that do attributes actually matter? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

What I got from this experiment is 

  • Individual performance or attributes is not a big factor in FM ME. Meaning a terrible player can play well for liverpool or man city
  • positional familiarity/Role Suitability is not a big factor. Meaning a goalkeeper can perform well as a striker for liverpool or man city
Edited by kingking
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is interesting because

  • Strikers are not important. Strikers ability isn't very important in FM ME. terrible players can score and be consistent if you play for Liverpool or man city.
  • Don't worry about strikers. Users should only make sure they have a good midfield, gk and defence.
  • Individual performance calculation is flawed. The way ME calculates individual performance is flawed. A goalkeeper shouldn't be consistent as a goalscoring striker in premier league
  • ME is still a flawed system. ME doesn't represent real life or how football actually works 
Edited by kingking
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

15 matches, counting from the Community Shield, Ben has 5 open play goals. That's not great in general, but it's more than I expected. 

I'd be interested to see how they actually fare against deep blocks. The first 6 months are usually quite easy because teams haven't adjusted yet.

Tbh, I don't know what their technical attributes as an outfield player is. I was looking for things like Finishing, but don't see it on the profile. Has it shown up since they've played outfield roles, @russell9?

Nope, only GK attributes are shown even though he has played striker for almost half season now.
 

Ben1.jpg

Ben2.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting (and scary) experiment!

Btw what's Winterbottom's penalty kick record (scored/attempted)? He does seem to score penalties with a pretty high percentage for someone who has an attribute of 3 for penalty taking...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, kandersson said:

Interesting (and scary) experiment!

Btw what's Winterbottom's penalty kick record (scored/attempted)? He does seem to score penalties with a pretty high percentage for someone who has an attribute of 3 for penalty taking...

100%! And yet Harry Kane has 20 but always miss his penalty in the game :brock:

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, styluz05 said:

Anyone who tries to make excuses how this doesn't raise massive questions is deluded. In no right mind would a GK be performing like this up top! Shows how first Gegen press is so overpowered that a good team can provide a GK yes a goalkeeper to score 8 goals in 10!! And that do attributes actually matter? 

Waiting for the reply from the online vendor......SI, over to you! Not buying anything off them ever again until this has a rational explanation.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@russell9 I suggest you rename this thread into something other than "experiment", attach screenshots and save file of the finished season and kindly ask a moderator to move it back to General Discussion, where it can hopefully get developers' attention.

There's no reason for this to be in the Specific Playing Styles forum, when the purpose of the thread is to discuss the match engine.

Cc: @Neil Brock @Seb Wassell

Link to post
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Zemahh said:

@russell9 I suggest you rename this thread into something other than "experiment", attach screenshots and save file of the finished season and kindly ask a moderator to move it back to General Discussion, where it can hopefully get developers' attention.

There's no reason for this to be in the Specific Playing Styles forum, when the purpose of the thread is to discuss the match engine.

Cc: @Neil Brock @Seb Wassell

As I've already said to him, he would need to upload both save game files and Pkms, at which point it would be moved to the bugs section.

Right now, its an experimental thread, so its in the experiments section

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Zemahh said:

@russell9 I suggest you rename this thread into something other than "experiment", attach screenshots and save file of the finished season and kindly ask a moderator to move it back to General Discussion, where it can hopefully get developers' attention.

There's no reason for this to be in the Specific Playing Styles forum, when the purpose of the thread is to discuss the match engine.

Cc: @Neil Brock @Seb Wassell

I agree - this thread should be getting a lot more attention. What it exposes is very damning.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Neil Brock would you have an issue with me starting a challenge thread inspired by this thread and the Phil Jones reddit.

I was thinking of calling it the Phil Jones Challenge for fun and not to poke fun at the match engine. 

I was just thinking it could be a fun experiment where people take a defender and see how many goals they can score playing up front. 

We could see who gets the most goals with the worst rated defender etc. 

Just for fun but wanted to check if it is ok with you as I don't want it to become a thread bashing the game's match engine.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Luizinho said:

I agree - this thread should be getting a lot more attention. What it exposes is very damning.

I have mentioned earlier in the thread that it the results were a surprise, but this would need to be done over a longer period. 15 matches and 5 open play goals (for Ben. I still haven't counted the other keeper's matches/goals) is certainly higher that I expected, but FM is a bit easy against AI teams in the first 6 months, imo. When the AI teams adjust after 6 months would be a real test for these players. It's a good start though.

@russell9 How are you simulating these matches? Are you playing them yourself? Instant Result? Going on holiday?

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

I have mentioned earlier in the thread that it the results were a surprise, but this would need to be done over a longer period. 15 matches and 5 open play goals (for Ben. I still haven't counted the other keeper's matches/goals) is certainly higher that I expected, but FM is a bit easy against AI teams in the first 6 months, imo. When the AI teams adjust after 6 months would be a real test for these players. It's a good start though.

@russell9 How are you simulating these matches? Are you playing them yourself? Instant Result? Going on holiday?

Mostly commentary mode fastest speed, watch some key highlights too. I have tried holiday before but the assistant always subs out both GKs so I don't holiday anymore as I need them to play full match.

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ronaldo Beckham said:

@Neil Brock would you have an issue with me starting a challenge thread inspired by this thread and the Phil Jones reddit.

I was thinking of calling it the Phil Jones Challenge for fun and not to poke fun at the match engine. 

I was just thinking it could be a fun experiment where people take a defender and see how many goals they can score playing up front. 

We could see who gets the most goals with the worst rated defender etc. 

Just for fun but wanted to check if it is ok with you as I don't want it to become a thread bashing the game's match engine.

 

You don't have to ask for permission. If you want to start an experiment or a challenge - go for it. We always keep an eye out, so will deal with people going off-topic or being antagonistic.

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, russell9 said:

Mostly commentary mode fastest speed, watch some key highlights too. I have tried holiday before but the assistant always subs out both GKs so I don't holiday anymore as I need them to play full match.

Was really hoping these were simulated matches and that it was something to do with the way the matches were being calculated... :idiot:

How many goals has Ben Winterbottom scored so far (ex. penalties)?

Link to post
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Luizinho said:

Was really hoping these were simulated matches and that it was something to do with the way the matches were being calculated... :idiot:

How many goals has Ben Winterbottom scored so far (ex. penalties)?

Total 15 goals, 7 are penalties. 8 open goals included some wonder goals :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, styluz05 said:

Just destroying any actual hope I can with the ME. You can call it a fluke or whatever you want. This message experiment is extremely worrying. 

Well this is FM20 and it's at it's end anyway, let's see what we got in FM20. I absolutely don't think it can be worse than FM20 :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...