Another UNTESTED "total football" tactic (with a more adventurous formation)

[Experienced Defender]

For context, please refer to my previous thread on the subject, in which I offered my personal interpretation of what a replication of total football via FM may look like. The formation I used then was the wide 442 diamond.

In this experiment, it will again be a wide diamond, but this time - the 3-4-3!

The key principle remains the same, with just a couple of differences that will be bolded. So here it is in its 343 version:

CFsu   TQ    CFsu

SS

WMsu                               WMsu

RPM

BPDst   BPDco   BPDst

SKat

Mentality - Attacking

In possession - play out of defence, slightly shorter passing, run at defence, hit early crosses, be more disciplined, slightly narrower (i.e. standard) width, underlap left and underlap right.

In transition - counter, counter-press and distribute quickly

Out of possession - much higher D-line and much higher LOE

NOTE: This tactic has also not been tested.

WARNING: Handle with care  (especially if you want to try it with a non-top team)

[whiterabit]

"Another" trend  

it seems promising. i will try then write my thoughts

[Karlo]

Having fun 


 

[EnigMattic1]

I'm actually liking these threads. @Experienced Defender, will you be doing any other formations, or is it solely for "Total Football"? 

[sporadicsmiles]

On 19/10/2020 at 00:44, Experienced Defender said:

underlap left and underlap right.

Is that making the wide strikers drop deeper for the wide players to overlap them? Just curious how that is working. 

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Is that making the wide strikers drop deeper for the wide players to overlap them? Just curious how that is working. 

In this particular case, it has 2 purposes:

1. to slightly reduce the mentality of the WMs;

2. and to encourage more passes from wide into central areas 

4 hours ago, EnigMattic1 said:

I'm actually liking these threads. @Experienced Defender, will you be doing any other formations, or is it solely for "Total Football"? 

For now, it's just about TF (i.e. my personal interpretation of it). But if I get some inspiration, I might experiment with some other styles as well.

[sporadicsmiles]

18 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

In this particular case, it has 2 purposes:

1. to slightly reduce the mentality of the WMs;

2. and to encourage more passes from wide into central areas 

Could this also be achieved in a more common sense way? What I mean is using underlap for a tactic with only one set of wide players is somewhat counterintuitive and is really being used to do something else (i.e. there are no underlaps really). 

I ask because while I can immediately see the logic and would probably try something similar to get the results you mention, I think it is rather not obvious to do this if you are not already familiar with the way tactical instructions work. So I wondered about your thoughts on that, as a way to get other people to see you can go many routes to doing the same thing. 

[Experienced Defender]

5 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Could this also be achieved in a more common sense way? What I mean is using underlap for a tactic with only one set of wide players is somewhat counterintuitive and is really being used to do something else (i.e. there are no underlaps really).

I ask because while I can immediately see the logic and would probably try something similar to get the results you mention, I think it is rather not obvious to do this if you are not already familiar with the way tactical instructions work. So I wondered about your thoughts on that, as a way to get other people to see you can go many routes to doing the same thing

The actual and key difference between underlaps and overlaps - which I discovered only recently thanks to Rashidi's YT video - is that underlaps do not affect only wide players but also anyone who makes a run through the middle. So with an underlap TI, a wide player is encouraged to hold up the ball a bit before passing it to a more centrally positioned teammate. And this can include both regular passes and crosses. 

Unlike the overlap, where the winger is encouraged to hold up the ball for his FB/WB making an overlapping run. 

On the other hand, when it comes to mentality adjustment, underlaps do the same as overlaps - i.e. slightly increase the FB/WB mentality and slightly reduce the winger's (or WM's). 

Hope this answers your question(s) 

[EnigMattic1]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

The actual and key difference between underlaps and overlaps - which I discovered only recently thanks to Rashidi's YT video - is that underlaps do not affect only wide players but also anyone who makes a run through the middle. So with an underlap TI, a wide player is encouraged to hold up the ball a bit before passing it to a more centrally positioned teammate. And this can include both regular passes and crosses. 

Unlike the overlap, where the winger is encouraged to hold up the ball for his FB/WB making an overlapping run. 

On the other hand, when it comes to mentality adjustment, underlaps do the same as overlaps - i.e. slightly increase the FB/WB mentality and slightly reduce the winger's (or WM's). 

Hope this answers your question(s) 

That goes for me too. I was always under the impression that "underlap" meant the fullbacks or wingbacks would, basically, underlap the wingers. I have learnt so much from his videos. 

Back on topic, I can see why you have chose to use underlap, especially with more players available to underlap. 

[ElJefe4]

5 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

The actual and key difference between underlaps and overlaps - which I discovered only recently thanks to Rashidi's YT video - is that underlaps do not affect only wide players but also anyone who makes a run through the middle. So with an underlap TI, a wide player is encouraged to hold up the ball a bit before passing it to a more centrally positioned teammate. And this can include both regular passes and crosses. 

Unlike the overlap, where the winger is encouraged to hold up the ball for his FB/WB making an overlapping run. 

On the other hand, when it comes to mentality adjustment, underlaps do the same as overlaps - i.e. slightly increase the FB/WB mentality and slightly reduce the winger's (or WM's). 

Hope this answers your question(s) 

That's really interesting, I didn't know that.

For a while I've been trying to play a tactic that really stretches across the width of the pitch in order to create room in the half spaces for creative players, similar to how City a couple of years ago would have Sterling and Sane for example very wide which left a lot of room for David Silva and De Bruyne in the half spaces. From your understanding of it, do you think the underlap TI would help in this instance?

[Experienced Defender]

52 minutes ago, ElJefe4 said:

For a while I've been trying to play a tactic that really stretches across the width of the pitch in order to create room in the half spaces for creative players, similar to how City a couple of years ago would have Sterling and Sane for example very wide which left a lot of room for David Silva and De Bruyne in the half spaces. From your understanding of it, do you think the underlap TI would help in this instance?

Based on what you described, I think underlap could make sense.

Basically, both overlaps and underlaps are the type of instructions that should be used on a situational basis (even though I deliberately employed them as part of the starting tactic in this particular case). 

[sporadicsmiles]

17 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

The actual and key difference between underlaps and overlaps - which I discovered only recently thanks to Rashidi's YT video - is that underlaps do not affect only wide players but also anyone who makes a run through the middle. So with an underlap TI, a wide player is encouraged to hold up the ball a bit before passing it to a more centrally positioned teammate. And this can include both regular passes and crosses. 

That is something I was not aware of either, so it definitely clarifies thing for me, and everyone. This should probably be part of the info given about what the underlap does in game. It makes total sense to use it in the system you posted here now. 

I learn something new every day!

[Experienced Defender]

5 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

This should probably be part of the info given about what the underlap does in game

It actually is in the description of the TI within the tactical creator, but the problem is that most of us (myself included) overlooked/misread it. Had it not been for Rashidi's enlightening video, I would still have a misconception about it.

[sporadicsmiles]

On 23/10/2020 at 13:29, Experienced Defender said:

It actually is in the description of the TI within the tactical creator, but the problem is that most of us (myself included) overlooked/misread it. Had it not been for Rashidi's enlightening video, I would still have a misconception about it.

I will honestly say I rarely even look at them these days. Perhaps I should stop assuming I know what things do too!

I'd actually love if there was some kind of visual representation of these things when you hover over and get a tooltip. Something that shows you roughly what to expect, as they have for the different tactical styles. Maybe something to put on the wishlist thread. 

[sporadicsmiles]

Oh, and additionally, this gives me the idea that coupling an underlap instruction for a creative wide player with a poacher could give some very interesting results.. Just dropping that here for anyone who wants to run with that. 

[Icetuga]

Am 24.10.2020 um 13:40 schrieb sporadicsmiles:

Oh, and additionally, this gives me the idea that coupling an underlap instruction for a creative wide player with a poacher could give some very interesting results.. Just dropping that here for anyone who wants to run with that. 

Oh i am running   Found this little thread 2 days ago and it gave me inspiration in one last save with a mid table team, where i want to build them around the Total Football philosophy.

And i use this formation from this thread and the 442 formation from the other thread as kind of plan B tactic.

I changed some TI to my likings and some roles that are better suited in my opinion for the level of players i can bring in.

In the front three i went with 2 F9 instead of CF and a Poacher instead of a Trequartista, the AMC behind i changed to a standart OM on attack. Them my RPM is a Regista and my middle CB is a standart CB on cover.

And i am pleased with what i am seeing the OP version worked very promising on first test i did in an other save, so i wanted to start a save from scratch with this idea in mind.

With a weaker team i wanted to make some adjustements because i couldn´t find anyone good enough to fill that front line, but on the other hand i found some decent cheap strikers that are made for that poacher role.

And to give the poacher some creative help around him i put 2 F9´s on his side, which have Roam from position PI. 

It is refreshing and great fun using this total football approach after a save where i went the strict and result based save with a effective but boring 442, And the results are surprisingly good with this formation and even with weaker players fun to watch at times.

But be prepared from some highlights for the opponents too, because this approach is and will be risky at all times but this tactic is also surprisingly better at defense then you might think. Just try it out guys it is great fun to use something different

Like this

TI:

F9   Poacher    F9

AMa

WMsu                               WMsu

Regista

BPDst   CBco   BPDst

SKatd

Mentality - Attacking

In possession - play out of defence, slightly shorter passing, run at defence, slightly narrower (i.e. standard) width, underlap left and underlap right.

In transition - counter, counter-press, take short kicks

Out of possession - much higher D-line, higher LOE and more urgent pressing just one click over standard