Please critique my Libero tactic

[mikcheck]

Hello guys,

I want to change things a bit, so I don't get bored with my Atalanta save. To do that, I decided to employ a Libero tactic, something I've never tried.

I'd like to know your opinions on this roles and duties, please.

 

PI's : All 3 forward players + MEZ - Tackle  hard and close down more.

        IW - Sit Narrower and Take More Risks

Thank you all!

Edited October 18, 2020 by mikcheck

[Experienced Defender]

If you want to really utilize a libero, then do not use a playmaker role in front of him. 

Also not sure if a mezzala with attack duty is a good idea in this type of system. I would rather have the mezzala on support duty and behind the RMD. 

36 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

PI's : All 3 forward players + MEZ - Tackle  hard and close down more

If you want to use a split block, then I would suggest removing the Prevent short GKD TI. 

I would also advise against using offside trap when your back 3 are on different duties (and with a libero, they'll be on different duties by default). 

[mikcheck]

Em 18/10/2020 em 13:14, Experienced Defender disse:

If you want to really utilize a libero, then do not use a playmaker role in front of him. 

Also not sure if a mezzala with attack duty is a good idea in this type of system. I would rather have the mezzala on support duty and behind the RMD. 

If you want to use a split block, then I would suggest removing the Prevent short GKD TI. 

I would also advise against using offside trap when your back 3 are on different duties (and with a libero, they'll be on different duties by default). 

Thanks for your help.

I've changed things a bit to try to make my team play how I want.  Basically I have a team full of gifted players, a very goode one and the 1st/2nd best in the league,  and my  most advanced players are pretty smart, fast and technical. 

I don't care about possession, I just want them to be incisive and avoid too much crossing game. If it only takes a few touches to get closer to the goal, so be it. I'm not going crazy with the LOE, because I want to try to have some space for them to play.

So this is my idea:

 

PI's -  AMR - Sit narrower, Roam from positon, Take more risks, Cross less often, 

         AML - Roam from position

         MCL - Move into channels

All front 3 + MCL - Split block

Any inputs?

Thanks!

[dazza11]

Have you tested it?

The backline looks worrying, a Lib on attack with stoppers either side and a higher def line leaves you ripe for being ripped apart with balls over the top - where is the defensive cover? 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, mikcheck said:

I just want them to be incisive and avoid too much crossing game.

If you want to discourage crosses, then do not increase the attacking width. 

As for the roles and duties, I would rather have the carrilero in MCL, because that flank is more attacking and hence needs better defensive cover (and CAR is definitely a more suitable role for that purpose than BBM). In fact, I probably would not use a BBM in this system (considering the rest of your setup). Instead, I would go either with 2 carrileros or CAR & BWM (or DLP).

I would also avoid a CWB in your system, because that role makes a lot more sense in narrow systems (i.e. when there is no other wide player in front of him). 

1 hour ago, mikcheck said:

PI's -  AMR - Sit narrower, Roam from positon, Take more risks, Cross less often, 

         AML - Roam from position

         MCL - Move into channels

All front 3 + MCL - Split block

Not sure you need so many PIs, but okay. 

Last but not least, I fully agree with @dazza11 on this: 

56 minutes ago, dazza11 said:

The backline looks worrying, a Lib on attack with stoppers either side and a higher def line leaves you ripe for being ripped apart with balls over the top - where is the defensive cover? 

 

[mikcheck]

2 horas atrás, dazza11 disse:

Have you tested it?

The backline looks worrying, a Lib on attack with stoppers either side and a higher def line leaves you ripe for being ripped {apart with balls over the top - where is the defensive cover? 

Thanks.

Well i've only played one game so far but the other team was really weak, so not really much to say. But I did that because the role description says that he drops behind the defensive line, aiming to sweep up through balls, so I thought that it could work by having 2 stoppers.  I think it can work most of domestic games, but maybe I can have troubles agains strong teams.

 

1 hora atrás, Experienced Defender disse:

If you want to discourage crosses, then do not increase the attacking width. 

Thanks.

But does play wider really focus play down the flanks? I know that it was true a few FM versions ago, but I think play wider now doesn't affect anything else. My idea behind that is that, since I have good passers throughout the team that could also help with how I want my team to play. Also with the underlaps TI's (I saw your explanation about it) it could also make sense to play like that. And another  thing is that many teams play defensively against me.

1 hora atrás, Experienced Defender disse:

As for the roles and duties, I would rather have the carrilero in MCL, because that flank is more attacking and hence needs better defensive cover (and CAR is definitely a more suitable role for that purpose than BBM). In fact, I probably would not use a BBM in this system (considering the rest of your setup). Instead, I would go either with 2 carrileros or CAR & BWM (or DLP).

Being a very good team, don't you think I could afford to play with BBM in most of the games? I find that playing CAR & BWM (or DLP) would be so conservative, but then again, I think it can work too, because the front 3 have so much quality. I've also read that it's not ideal to use a playmaker when using a Libero, but I think that's too rigid of a thinking too.

Also, I went for a BBM because it would help feeding the vertical IF and if I use him behinfd the IW that would take some space for the IW to operate (that why I also used a more conservative role like CARthere) and the IF wouldn't have as much support. I  behind. The CAR is also on that side due to the more attacking nature of the CWB. 

Please tell me if my thinking is not right. I mean, I have reasons behind every choice, but I may be completely wrong  about them.

 

1 hora atrás, Experienced Defender disse:

 would also avoid a CWB in your system, because that role makes a lot more sense in narrow systems (i.e. when there is no other wide player in front of him). 

I did it for two reasons. First, because I admit I have two really talented players there and that it would be a waste to play any of them as "just" WB. The other reason is to have some good combinations between CWB and the IW. While the CAR is hardcoded to stay wider  and even though the CWB has it too, he also roams, so I thougt that since both CWB and IW are smart players, there could be some really good combinations between them, where sometimes the CWB goes inside and the IW supplies him from wide and vice versa.

Again, don't know if that makes any sense to you. It does in my head, but I'm FAR from expert on this. Not even close.

 

1 hora atrás, Experienced Defender disse:

Not sure you need so many PIs, but okay. 

Yes, I believe you're mostly talking about the IW, right? So basically I want him to be a AP on the wing, without being a ball magnet as all the playmakers are.

Roam from position in front 3, because I want them to be constantly moving looking for the best place to be. I think it's fundamental for the dynamic I want between them,

 

1 hora atrás, Experienced Defender disse:

 

Last but not least, I fully agree with @dazza11 on this: 

 

So, would you just use them with a defend duty? I just use stoppers because I though that the Libero would have a more conservative approach behind the defensive line, when defending.

Edited October 26, 2020 by mikcheck

[Experienced Defender]

33 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

But does play wider really focus play down the flanks?

Wider width does not literally focus the play on the flanks, but does encourage greater use of flanks and consequently tends to lead to more crosses. Which is not a problem per se, but you yourself said you don't want much crossing. 

 

37 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

Being a very good team, don't you think I could afford to play with BBM in most of the games?

Okay, play and see. If it works as you want - then great  

 

39 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

I did it for two reasons. First, because I admit I have two really talented players there and that it would be a waste to play any of them as "just" WB. The other reason is to have some good combinations between CWB and the IW. While the CAR is hardcoded to stay wider  and even though the CWB has it too, he also roams, so I thougt that since both CWB and IW are smart players, there could be some really good combinations between them, where sometimes the CWB goes inside and the IW supplies him from wide and vice versa.

Again, don't know if that makes any sense to you. It does in my head, but I'm FAR from expert on this. Not even close.

As with the BBM, play and see for yourself  

 

39 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

So, would you just use them with a defend duty?

I personally would play them on defend. 

 

40 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

I just use stoppers because I though that the Libero would have a more conservative approach behind the defensive line, when defending

When defending yes. But what happens when the libero is high up the pitch the moment your attack is intercepted and the opposition is about to launch a quick counter/ball over the top?

Libero is not the same as CB on cover duty (especially when played on attack).

[RPM_01]

On 18/10/2020 at 13:14, Experienced Defender said:

If you want to really utilize a libero, then do not use a playmaker role in front of him. 

Can I ask why? Does this change how the libero plays?

[dazza11]

A Libero is basically a playmaker, depending on your age think back to Mattheus, Baresi, Hoddle. It’s basically an attacking sweeper, requiring good playmaker skills. So if you plonk a dlp in front of him it crowds the space for the Libero to move into and limits his effectiveness 

[mikcheck]

What about using offside trap with a Liberto? Is it a bad idea?

[NotSoSpecialOne]

41 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

What about using offside trap with a Liberto? Is it a bad idea?

FM 20's Libero isn't a traditional Libero; it doesn't defend like a sweeper would really so offside trap isn't the worst thing to use in conjunction with it.

[GianniM]

12 hours ago, mikcheck said:

"just" WB

"Just" WB with the right player traits can be a great weapon too though. 'Gets into opposition area' etc. 

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, RPM_01 said:

Can I ask why? Does this change how the libero plays?

This: 

 

2 hours ago, dazza11 said:

A Libero is basically a playmaker, depending on your age think back to Mattheus, Baresi, Hoddle. It’s basically an attacking sweeper, requiring good playmaker skills. So if you plonk a dlp in front of him it crowds the space for the Libero to move into and limits his effectiveness

So you can use a libero along with (another) playmaker role if you want, because nothing can prevent you from doing whatever you want. But the question is why would you then want to use a libero in the first place? Just for the sake of using it (because the role is sort of "exoitic")? 

[RPM_01]

41 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

So you can use a libero along with (another) playmaker role if you want, because nothing can prevent you from doing whatever you want. But the question is why would you then want to use a libero in the first place? Just for the sake of using it (because the role is sort of "exoitic")? 

When I had both what I wanted was a role I saw Fernandinho play vs Arsenal last season, which acted as a CB out of possession but in possession stepped up out of that line and offered himself as a DM that didn't push up as much, which in the most part works when I sit a DLP in front of him rather than the alternative of a HB that I feel can be caught out too far forward at times. Was curious without the ability to play the game at this moment in time what changes in characteristics the libero has when a playmaker isn't there! 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, RPM_01 said:

Was curious without the ability to play the game at this moment in time what changes in characteristics the libero has when a playmaker isn't there! 

Without a PM in front of him, the libero has more room to express himself and be fully involved in the creation and organization of attacks. That's the key difference. 

[mikcheck]

I wonder who would you guys prefer to play as  the attacking Libero?

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by mikcheck