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Football Manager 2021 - New Headline Features


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1 minute ago, davehanson said:

I don't agree with this. A presentation, in anything, should capture the attention and wow the intend audience.

So SI show this on full detail and HD quality. The Joe Blogs comes with his min spec laptop and it's not close to that. What now? That's why SI usually showcase things on a low resolution though sometimes they show a bit of both too.

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Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

You have to remember, that for a number of people, this edition of FM will be their first one, and games designers always have to keep this in mind.  

Also. from a business model perspective, charging less would be suicide. It's already less than the cost of full prices titles elsewhere (around £20 cheaper than FIFA at launch for example), and the value for money given the hours you put it into it is unrivalled. I fully expected there not to be any wholsale changes this year, but I'm pleasantly suprised at how nice the UI is looking. If that was the only upgrade, I'd be fine with that. I enjoyed the FM20 match engine, hardly saw any of the issues others reported, so a few improvements in that department will be cool with me. 

I'm with you there, I'm not expecting anything too big as I had already stated but as I'm going to part with a significant chunk (Yes I know it's worth considering the hundreds of hours), I do expect a certain amount of things to be let's say.....polished.

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1 minute ago, saiyaman said:

I'm with you there, I'm not expecting anything too big as I had already stated but as I'm going to part with a significant chunk (Yes I know it's worth considering the hundreds of hours), I do expect a certain amount of things to be let's say.....polished.

I hear you, and from what I've seen so far, presentation wise, things look more 'modern' than the last few editions. Looking forward to the beta dropping - as always. 

Edited by Dagenham_Dave
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Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

I hear you, and from what I've seen so far, presentation wise, things look more 'modern' than the last few editions. Looking forward to the beta dropping - as always. 

Yeah I personally agree with SI's attempt on making standard text clicks to a more logical show your expressions approach which should certainly be interesting for press conferences.

There are these nice little things. I just wonder if they will add more like these because I personally don't care much for xG because the information can be easily found in the game already with some analysis.

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7 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I also said FM users are not representative of steam users. That's the crux of the point here

Aren't the vast majority of copies sold on Steam ?

I flipped back to the results for last year given it was available of XGP and Epic store this year, and they are almost identical.

You can't just say " Oh we are not representative of Steam users" when the majority of folk are in that ecosystem and included in the hardware tables. 

 

Edit: discussion is off topic and for another thread, I'll drop it

 

Edited by treble_yell_:-)
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Was it FM18 that had the new lighting system? We had a lot of users come to the forum with issues that the game couldn't display matches properly and matches were all red. That was because the (usually) laptops were under spec in terms of the graphics card/chip. So there needs to be progress, but at the same time there also needs to be consideration for the people who play the game and the specs of the pcs they're playing on.

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Just now, HUNT3R said:

Was it FM18 that had the new lighting system? We had a lot of users come to the forum with issues that the game couldn't display matches properly and matches were all red. That was because the (usually) laptops were under spec in terms of the graphics card/chip. So there needs to be progress, but at the same time there also needs to be consideration for the people who play the game and the specs of the pcs they're playing on.

Simple make the requirements:

Intel Core i9

16 GB RAM

GTX 3080 Ti

SSD optional

:onmehead:

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Just now, davehanson said:

What now, that's called marketing. How many other games/developers out there deliberately turn down the graphic settings on trailers to showcase the worse that a game will run? Most games have some kind of disclaimer at the bottom 'may not be representative of gameplay' or similar. Hell, how many other manufacturers of anything out there show you the worse bits of their product?

It really doesn't matter to me as I only play on 2D anyway. However, the reason I play on 2D is because the 3D representation looks like it is 20 years old and doesn't hold any interest to me.

I don't think you've read my post fully. SI do show a bit of both and we've seen that already with some of the screenshots posted in this very thread. We've seen a 'blank' FM21 pitch and we've also seen one with much more detail to it. They can't only show the best.

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1 minute ago, HUNT3R said:

Was it FM18 that had the new lighting system? We had a lot of users come to the forum with issues that the game couldn't display matches properly and matches were all red. That was because the (usually) laptops were under spec in terms of the graphics card/chip. So there needs to be progress, but at the same time there also needs to be consideration for the people who play the game and the specs of the pcs they're playing on.

It was indeed. Hardly a massive leap in demands and still a problem

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Just now, HUNT3R said:

I don't think you've read my post fully. SI do show a bit of both and we've seen that already with some of the screenshots posted in this very thread. We've seen a 'blank' FM21 pitch and we've also seen one with much more detail to it. They can't only show the best.

Ah, okay. I hope though that the one with the more detail in it still isn't their best, and I am sure it is still not, because it still looks quite bad in comparison to some earlier FM's.

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7 minutes ago, davehanson said:

Ah, okay. I hope though that the one with the more detail in it still isn't their best, and I am sure it is still not, because it still looks quite bad in comparison to some earlier FM's.

They have to think about all of their potential customers. You would be outraged (and see the previous 4 pages for evidence of this) if they only showed that 'blank' pitch when you have a top of the range PC. On the other hand, the users on the other end of the scale would blow a gasket if decent graphics and detail is shown, but they don't see it when they start playing. It might even be potential law suit territory.

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4 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

I don't think you've read my post fully. SI do show a bit of both and we've seen that already with some of the screenshots posted in this very thread. We've seen a 'blank' FM21 pitch and we've also seen one with much more detail to it. They can't only show the best.

Really dont think that blank one is on low quality. It is just that stadium and that version of pitch. Cant prove it now i know, just opinion and feeling.

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Just now, PoeticOtter said:

I would add my two pennies' worth about the match engine, the rehashed features, the awful match experience which has been demonstrated earlier in this thread etc. but I don't feel as a customer of 20 years feedback/criticism is addressed, as Impacto posted on page 2.

You're drawing a conclusion FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR too early. We have had no details regarding the new features. Then we've also not heard what's been improved AI and ME wise. Traditionally, that info comes later as it's not headline material, but that's not to say it's less important, just less flashy/headline material.

Personally, while the new features don't immediately grab me, I am eagerly waiting on news about the core of the game - the AI (transfer and ME) and then also the ME itself.

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5 minutes ago, PoeticOtter said:

Over the past few years I've got less and less excited about the upcoming release but I usually end up buying the game on release day. This year however, before the headlines feature was released, I had almost no desire to buy the game. After watching it, I have fully no desire to buy the game. 

I would add my two pennies' worth about the match engine, the rehashed features, the awful match experience which has been demonstrated earlier in this thread etc. but I don't feel as a customer of 20 years feedback/criticism is addressed, as Impacto posted on page 2.

Thanks CM/FM, we had a fantastic run.

Video about FM21 match engine is not out yet. it usually has a dedicated segment solely on it.

be patient. if after it's out and this is your opinion, then it's fine. till then hold your horses and wait.

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8 minutes ago, saihtam said:

Really dont think that blank one is on low quality. It is just that stadium and that version of pitch. Cant prove it now i know, just opinion and feeling.

Could be but I've just looked at the video again (in HD) and where there are pitch textures, the player models look better and sharper too, so I suspect it's a graphics setting.

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@Neil Brock thnx for being the line between us and developers. Hope something like this has been suggested:https://www.crusaderkings.com/en/news/dev-diary-3-war

I understand that cant announce things worked on long time and take out exitment of new feature reveale, but even small things would be awsome to see and unite community definetly together. Just small climpses how somethig in ME is being updated for, dont need to be long and dragging on. Or fun stories how now stands up held with this covid crazyines in home offices etc. Communication and marketing oportunities are endles :)

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I like the prematch squad roster where are the players are listed on top of each other. A stylish UI addition. I also like the other UI additions , plus the new skin looks better with the darker purple.

I liked FM 20 ME although i do consider that there were too many goals scored from Set Pieces, especially corners and indirect freekicks.

I just hope that the annoying bug of FM 20 that had a thread in the general forum ( AI managers always changing preffered formation to 4-2-3-1 is fixed ).

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I honestly could not care less about new features or reskinning or anything like that. Although the chat system looks like a way to actually be able to communicate with players when you want and in a better way. All I require is a ME that produces good football. Something that is better than the ME in FM20. Which I simply do not enjoy playing, as it just does not give a realistic representation of how football works. I do not care if the animations are nice, or the lighting is better, or the graphics at all. I really would not mind if FM21 is FM20 but more fun to actually play. 

So I will not pass any judgement on the game until I have actually played it and seen how it behaves. Nor be excited by it. 

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Can't wait to preorder this! I regret reading these 5 pages but that made me even more adamant to preorder the game and support the devs.

I remember not even being able to play FM08 correctly cos striker would sometimes be goalkeepers, goalkeepers would be right backs etc because of how poor the database was. For a top club in country that finished in quarter finals in UEFA Euro 2008.

I still play 2D and will continue playing 2D as it's much better way for me to play the game. 

I got most of the features I asked for - agent interactions, proper recruitment, more raelistic press conferences. Do I think improved AI/ME are features? No. It's a necessity for the game.

But one of the biggest gripes I have is that people ask for 'realistic AI team building'. What is realistic? If someone does a poor job and ends up with 2 center backs at club like Man City, is that unrealistic or just poor job? If someone ends up with 14 first team players for long periods of time at club like Barca is that unrealistic or just poor job? Why does someone spend €300m on fullbacks in few years? Why did 9th place team in La Liga like Valencia decide to get rid of every player in first team without proper replacements? Why did top top club like Barca pay €140m for 20 games and then send on loan? Or that same amount of money for player to sit on bench like Griezmann? Also, why is that 16 year old playing over Griezmann? Miles pls fix! Juve Zebre paid €80m for a striker that got released on free a couple of season after. What happened with Man Utd and why was McTominay best midfielder? Mourinho would never sign for Spurs, he's a Chelsea legend! Why are England playing like 8 defensive players in first 11? I TRIED TO SUB OFF KEEPER, HE TOLD ME TO FORK MYSELF! AND I lost. I got hit with injury bug again, ugh - Kane, Son both injured, have to play Lucas up front and pull Tanganga from u23.

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16 minutes ago, saihtam said:

Neil Brock thnx for being the line between us and developers. Hope something like this has been suggested:https://www.crusaderkings.com/en/news/dev-diary-3-war

I can't speak on his behalf, but there have been plenty of internal discussions on how to engage with the community. Still though at the end of the day, developers don't have something in their job description that says come here and answer questions. They do that if they feel a concrete discussion is actually happening.  We now have a tab up top that hotlinks the latest developer posts. At this moment, their main focus is to get the game ready. As far as engaging the community goes, you will find them being very forthcoming in other sub forums. Here though, its like coming into a monster truck demolition derby and they are the ones with a target on them. 

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17 minutes ago, saihtam said:

@Neil Brock thnx for being the line between us and developers. Hope something like this has been suggested: https://www.crusaderkings.com/en/news/dev-diary-3-war

I understand that cant announce things worked on long time and take out exitment of new feature reveale, but even small things would be awsome to see and unite community definetly together. Just small climpses how somethig in ME is being updated for, dont need to be long and dragging on. Or fun stories how now stands up held with this covid crazyines in home offices etc. Communication and marketing oportunities are endles :)

Yeah as part of the SEGA umbrella we're close with Creative Assembly who have done diary style videos and blogs in the past as well - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6WW1Nc537g

It's definitely something we're aware there's an appetite for from the core. If we had the time and resources to do everything at least one person within the studio thought was worth doing we'd be 24/7 :D 

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Some people see same ME which makes me question people's eyesight.

Short video gives hints of:

1) A lot better reaction from players after ball is passed (uncontrolled).

2) Better line movements when ball is being carried or passed forward. Meaning more realistic waves of attacks are possible. Propably more efficient counters too.

3) Goals can be scored "through" the GK by lobbing.

4)New save/animation from GK.

5)Ball was volleyd from farpost not headed.

A lot can change before game is released but don't say nothing is changed. :D 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

They have to think about all of their potential customers. You would be outraged (and see the previous 4 pages for evidence of this) if they only showed that 'blank' pitch when you have a top of the range PC. On the other hand, the users on the other end of the scale would blow a gasket if decent graphics and detail is shown, but they don't see it when they start playing. It might even be potential law suit territory.

This is called different graphics settings. Most of the games use it and there is nothing bad in it. I don't understand why they can't make "blank pitch" setting for low-end PCs and full detail settings for high-end PC.

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11 minutes ago, Exius said:

Yeah, they make features presentations on a lower quality graphics settings intentionally. That makes perfect sense... in a parallel universe.

I play in 3D either, with maximum quality. And I remember that in 18 and 19 the pitch quality was much worse than before. I don't play FM every year, so I can't tell when exactly it started. And I'm not the only one who has noticed it. Check skinning threads - there are a lot of threads replacing original pitch textures with modified, but they are still nowhere near the quality of FM 2011. At some point SI has simiplified pitch texturing algorithms and that quality is now unachievable (the field can't be worn out so badly anymore and there are a lot of smaller details that are missing). I understand that it was made at some point to optimize the game performance on weaker PC, but, come on, it's almost 2021 now!

The decision of what graphic setting to use on a compressed youtube video is for another discussion.

My point was and still stands that you are unable to compare at this point the quality of the pitch between FM11 or 18 or 19 to FM21. If you say FM18/19 was worse than FM11, fair enough. If you are saying FM11 is better than FM21 then you don't really have much to base this on.

Personally, my computer is about 5 years old but can still run FM on highest settings (almost). I don't mind if they improve the graphics. They have been improving the animations and shots and players. There is definitely lots of potential for improvement. Many people still play with 2D, so the decision is focused on a more balanced improvement between features, updates, than just the match graphics.

I can live with the graphics they have at the moment as long as the entire experience is great. There is no point to have amazing graphics if no matter what tactics you use or instructions you give, it does not show on the pitch (for those who want to talk about competitors).

FM21 features have just been announced and will trickle in over the next weeks. By early / mid November you will be able to see for yourself if you pre-ordered.

 

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29 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

I honestly could not care less about new features or reskinning or anything like that. Although the chat system looks like a way to actually be able to communicate with players when you want and in a better way. All I require is a ME that produces good football. Something that is better than the ME in FM20. Which I simply do not enjoy playing, as it just does not give a realistic representation of how football works. I do not care if the animations are nice, or the lighting is better, or the graphics at all. I really would not mind if FM21 is FM20 but more fun to actually play. 

So I will not pass any judgement on the game until I have actually played it and seen how it behaves. Nor be excited by it. 

image.png

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46 minutes ago, PoeticOtter said:

My conclusion goes back to releases over the past few years. I've been buying this game long enough to know that the "features" announced before released are often overstated or are just slightly rehashed existing features changed to make it look new. This year it looks like team talks has "improved" but looking at the video, the sentences look the same but instead of assertive/calm/passionate there's now point finger/hands in pocket/outstretched arms. Is that really any different? The reason I'm picking that example is because it's the first feature of the New Headline Features video.

As for the ME video or announcement that might come out, it'll say the following: "much improved AI", "more animations", "better optimisations". But wide players will still get to the byline and smash it into the side netting, goalkeepers will never get a rating above 7, CB's long ball ability will be OP, 1v1s will happen often but rarely converted and strikers will shoot rather than picking a better pass option. 

There is nothing wrong with existing features being upgraded and worked on.

To me it seems like the upgrade favors role playing and how you want your manager to be viewed instead of simply picking the right combination every time. The new way might be more dynamic for all we know and the right or wrong comment or answer could be case by case. 
 

assertive is assertive...Pointing at someone could be both assertive or passionate. Context is key.

 

the old tones were tied to a very specific effect on players.

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6 minutes ago, Exius said:

For those who are advocating new FM graphics I made new comparison with FM 2011 using the same screenshots you've provided here. Do you really see no difference? Pitch was worn out more badly (near the goal and in local areas of the pitch) the grass had much more details, the lightning and the shadows was much better.

image.thumb.png.1ef035a7483c8f592427fde0e0bcf2cd.png

 


P.S. Frankly speaking, don't look at the text labels. Just look at the graphics and tell - what game looks like a new one and what is an old one - the left or the right one?

Obviously the left one is the new one.

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1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

And not just old users. Newer users are often buying the cheapest laptops capable of playing FM. Simply because it's the only game they play

FM players are also among the most passionate out there. If it's the only game they play 1000+ hours per year, they're going to make damn sure their computer can handle it, whether they have to buy a new one or not. Not everyone could afford it of course, but show me one Triple-A game that stifles it's progress because "a lot of its players are using cheap laptops". If the newest Forza, Far Cry, Witcher or even FIFA would run on 15 y/o hardware, their players would never buy new ones either.

On the other hand, there's also a lot of die-hard FM players with €2000 gaming rigs that buy the game year in and year out, only to be disappointed with the lack of progress. There's FM Touch and FM Mobile for players that perhaps can't afford an entry level gaming PC, so I struggle to understand this often repeated logic. Developers should focus on releasing the best game possible, not on appeasing players on ancient computers. And I'm sure they would start doing that really fast, if they would have an actual competitor that would release a better (although more hardware demanding) game.

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12 minutes ago, Exius said:

For those who are advocating new FM graphics I made new comparison with FM 2011 using the same screenshots you've provided here. Do you really see no difference? Pitch was worn out more badly (near the goal and in local areas of the pitch) the grass had much more details, the lightning and the shadows was much better.

image.thumb.png.1ef035a7483c8f592427fde0e0bcf2cd.png

 


P.S. Frankly speaking, don't look at the text labels. Just look at the graphics and tell - what game looks like a new one and what is an old one - the left or the right one?

Apparently when they cut the grass in 2011 the texture only went up to the lines :thup:

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31 minutes ago, naterego93 said:

With Cyberpunk coming out I'll have to give 21 a solid pass...or should I say cross.

Different type of games. If I am in the mood for a footie game I wouldn't play Cyberpunk. Same If i am in the mood for a RPG with next gen graphics then Cyberpunk is the way to go probably.

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7 minutes ago, Exius said:

For those who are advocating new FM graphics I made new comparison with FM 2011 using the same screenshots you've provided here. Do you really see no difference? Pitch was worn out more badly (near the goal and in local areas of the pitch) the grass had much more details, the lightning and the shadows was much better.

image.thumb.png.1ef035a7483c8f592427fde0e0bcf2cd.png

 


P.S. Frankly speaking, don't look at the text labels. Just look at the graphics and tell - what game looks like a new one and what is an old one - the left or the right one?

FM11 pitch is much better. Same story with newgen faces by the way. And i don't know how to explain it.

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I dont know anything about graphics but if just IF older grass got smaller resolution which shows further away VS. new one got bigger texture which makes harder for eye to see the difference if its far. Heres two picture 1 close one far.

Grass close

295925036_Ruoholhell.thumb.jpg.192562f83e406161761beb3fa9344145.jpg

 

Grass far

405909284_ruohokaukana.thumb.jpg.8ff02b3be36cbe7f033c189d24cb7a93.jpg

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57 minutes ago, Exius said:

For those who are advocating new FM graphics I made new comparison with FM 2011 using the same screenshots you've provided here. Do you really see no difference? Pitch was worn out more badly (near the goal and in local areas of the pitch) the grass had much more details, the lightning and the shadows was much better.

image.thumb.png.1ef035a7483c8f592427fde0e0bcf2cd.png

 


P.S. Frankly speaking, don't look at the text labels. Just look at the graphics and tell - what game looks like a new one and what is an old one - the left or the right one?

With the FM21 screenshots though, and in the trailer, they do say they're still a work in progress. Given how much work will likely be done in the next few weeks before the full release (we've seen how big changes in the ME and graphics are made in that time), I wouldn't take those graphics as a huge indicator of the final result. Hell, knowing people involved in the game development industry (including the making of trailers), those are probably from a version of the ME/graphics engine a month or more old.

I'm gonna be looking out for what they look like once we all get our hands on the game, rather than a WIP version made from home (given the devs aren't back in the office yet, and you can tell they were recorded from a laptop, because of the battery symbol on the left side of the commentary bar).

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I must in the small minority still playing most of the matches on 2D. I think i played maybe 20-30 matches on 3D on FM 20 on my long term save. 2D view is just faster and more efficient for me.

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Whether or not the match engine has been improved is literally the only thing that matters to me. All the bells and whistles mean nothing if the match engine sucks, and anything else can be overlooked if the match engine is great.

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