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Tactical Series - Juego de Posicion (FM20/FM21)


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17 hours ago, yonko said:

If teams are regrouping and sitting back against you, I would suggest lower tempo and standard passing. Also play wider. 

For this playing style your players are good at keeping the ball, so I would also add Work Ball Into Box. With these instructions you should move them around and patiently wait for opening. You can also have overlapping on both flanks or try underlap on one side for variation. 

These are all of the things I normally try. I still use this some although what @Kharza_FM mentioned earlier has been working well as a default. 

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9 hours ago, 04texag said:

These are all of the things I normally try. I still use this some although what @Kharza_FM mentioned earlier has been working well as a default. 

Sometimes we can try all the right adjustments and they still don't work because players just have a bad game. Or the opponents have a better day. It happens in real life too. 

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I'll have an update coming tonight or in the morning. I've been working on a few tactical alternates for different scenarios. 

I was also planning on doing a player analysis, looking at key traits and stats to look at for the key positions to make this work for other teams. 

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We are two months into the season, my first full season with this tactic on my long term save. Through 15 games, we've only given up 4 goals (that includes the community shield game). With 8 straight shutouts currently going. That includes using our second choice keeper for cup games. So yeah, I think you can say we are pretty darned stable defensively. 

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We are currently in first place, hoping to defend our title we won last year (using this system for about half of it).

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Updates -  I had posted earlier  in the thread about some games getting low scoring and feeling stale. Like I lacked a little bit of firepower. Aside from the draw away to chelsea, our goal output has been PHENOMENAL in the last several game. So, what did I change? Not much. I upped the tempo all of the way and increased passing to standard. That's pretty much it.

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One thing I wanted to highlight that I've found helpful, as a QoL improvement, is saving a utilizing multiple "Tactical Styles". This allows me to quickly make changes during a game without messing with my base tactic. It also helps to prevent my making random tactical changes through opening up the TI's and just clicking stuff. I have them labeled and will use them as appropriate. 

If you click the dropdown, you can save your current instructions as something specific, and then call that later. See my list below, including one set of instructions to breakdown a stubborn parked bus.

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With that set, now I can set three separate tactics, which focus only on the pos/role/duty, and then on each tactic set the appropriate custom tactical style. So for my three tactics, I have my base JdP 4231, a flipped version, and then my work in progress 433 Jdp variant.

 

Coming soon I'll post the positional focus update with player search ideas for the key roles in this system. 

 

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Ah yes, one other change I forgot about. The AMR, I moved to IW-S, shorter passes, take more risks and still roaming. The AML is now IW-A, stays wider as only PI.

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Great question @Big Yellow He's been playing well, average rating is a 7.06. I'll post screenshots. His goals and assists are currently low, but has high key passes, passes complete and decent touches per game.

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Time for another update. Sorry, I've been busy so haven't posted much on here the past few days. 

I've been growing frustrated with playing in the PL after 10 years in this save. There's so much parity, too many cups, and the players just get fatigued and start playing poorly. I felt I needed a change. First thing, after noticing I kept being drawn to lots of spanish players, was to go for the Spain national team. I landed the job after the 2030 world cup and have been grooming the player pool and teaching the team my JdP. We have been playing phenomenal. The players crush with this tactic on the international stage.  In the summer of 2032, we got all the way to the final and lost on penalties to England, 3-3p. OMG I'VE LOST SO MANY FINALS TO PENALTIES. This is so frustrating.  All in all, it was a really great game. 

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Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to get the same match stats and analysis for national team games. But here is a heat map from this game. We are using the full width and depth of the field.

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Another big new thing, summer of 2032, I left Portsmouth. ON leaving, the game considers me a LEGEND at Portsmouth. This is a first for me in FM and pretty exciting. We took them through promotion up to PL, It's been a great save. We won the PL in back to back seasons, won the Euro Cup once, and finished Champions Cup runners up twice. A host of other small trophies sprinkled in, it's been a fantastically fun save.

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So, where did I end up? I figured it would be good to move to a Spanish club, as it helps me keep my eyes on spanish talent for the national team, and makes more sense then continually signing Spain's stars to Portsmouth. I've been wanting to do a Valencia save to get them back to winning titles. After declaring interest in the job, and their current coach faltering and failing to reach a Euro spot in the league, he was fired and they brought me on. 

Summer 2032 was busy then -  I  had Euro's for Spain, a new team to learn the players, and a transfer window to try to bring in some talent to play my JdP at Valencia. But, I also had to work out some tactical tweaks. Overall, I've VERY HAPPY with the Juego de Posicion. Below is my preferred variant of it, which I've posted already in this thread earlier. My only issue with it, is some games get stale.

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So, in response to that problem, I have come up with an attacking formation to use as a SWITCH during games. The goal, it to turn up the tempo, pressure, and slightly alter the lanes of attack. I have borrowed a tactic I've used before, and from a thread another user whom I've followed a few of his saves. @zlatanera Has a beautiful attacking 4231 using a wide Trequartista. This is always a role that I've like trying to use. In my JdP interpretation, my AML who plays as an IW-A is pretty close to the ideal player to also train and play as a Treq, so it's a natural fit. I have flipped Zlatanera's typical tactic as my Treq is on the left, as his is on the right. Here is my SWITCH TACTIC. 

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The way I typically use the two tactics is to alternate between them based on what I'm seeing in the game. Here are some examples of use

Home game, we are stronger team - I'll start with the attacking tactic for 10-15 minutes and try to put the opponent on their back foot. Hopefully, we score a quick goal, but at least establish some control over the match. If we go up one or two goals I'll usually switch very early to the JdP tactic, as it's very stable defensively and provides plenty of attacking opportunities.

Away Game - I like to start away games with the JdP tactic, as it is just very balanced. I want to see how the other team is playing and again try to have control of the game. Depending on how the match starts, I might try the attacking formation around the 20th minute. If for whatever reason I have not switch, I'll definitely switch to attacking at about the 40th minute mark to try to get a goal in just before half when the opposition is tired and not as sharp.

The second half is always just really variable on the game situations, but that is just an example. 

Valencia Performance 

We are now a few games in to the first season at Valencia and the team is still learning tactical familiarity with both tactics, but so far, the results have been good. We have not had a top 3 test yet from any of the powerhouses, but I generally like the play that I'm seeing.

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I'll post another update very soon on players. As now that I'm building and re-working a new team to these tactics, I had to evaluate and buy some new blood to fit my key positions.

 

 

 

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@04texag Valencia are probably the team that's most luring me to abandon my Roma save, I think they're a really cool club. A couple of things:

1. Your two tactics are - deliberately - on drastically different mentalities, although the In Possession instructions in particular probably bring them closer together than it might first appear, but I'm curious if you feel your players are building familiarity at an appropriate rate? Not a criticism, just a personal curiosity as if I run an alternate formation I'll still have the same tactical style usually.

2. With regards to the Attacking tactic, Defend Narrower was a holdover from a recreation of Leonardo Jardim's Monaco, and like that team most of the squads I used the tactic with had very physically imposing defenders and midfielders (Man Utd and Roma both had full backs over 6'0"), whereas with Ajax I removed it due to the small stature of Daley Blind and Nicolás Tagliafico. Just something to watch depending on the literal stature of your side, although you seem have good attention to detail (better than myself, I only considered losing the TI when the players complained in briefings).

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2 minutes ago, zlatanera said:

1. Your two tactics are - deliberately - on drastically different mentalities, although the In Possession instructions in particular probably bring them closer together than it might first appear, but I'm curious if you feel your players are building familiarity at an appropriate rate? Not a criticism, just a personal curiosity as if I run an alternate formation I'll still have the same tactical style usually.

2. With regards to the Attacking tactic, Defend Narrower was a holdover from a recreation of Leonardo Jardim's Monaco, and like that team most of the squads I used the tactic with had very physically imposing defenders and midfielders (Man Utd and Roma both had full backs over 6'0"), whereas with Ajax I removed it due to the small stature of Daley Blind and Nicolás Tagliafico. Just something to watch depending on the literal stature of your side, although you seem have good attention to detail (better than myself, I only considered losing the TI when the players complained in briefings).

Good eye for detail yourself though in reviewing the tactical differences. So, the two altering tactics have worked extremely well with the Spanish national team. That said, they are truly world class. I'm hanging on to this save to try to win my first ever world cup with them.  So far, my Valencia side has taken on well to the two tactics. There are enough similarities in the instructions and style of play across some of the key positions. It seems to be working, but I'm analysing it all very closely.

2. Yes, I had seen that description before on your Ajax squad, etc. My JdP predominantly uses narrow defense and I have some tall CD's in order to make sure we can handle crosses, etc. So in general, there is that similarity defensively on width between the two and it has not created issues yet. Certainly not at Portsmouth before and on the national team, but still a little early to be conclusive with Valencia.

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Key Positions

So the best player on the team IMO should be your RPM. He is the heartbeat of the team. With this set of tactical instructions, there is a wide stable team shape, and then opportunities to roam around in the middle looking to set tempo. make quick 1/2 touch passing, but also to seek out the switch or through ball pass which is often available due to the space created by the team shape. 

How to find a good RPM

I always seek to identify either a player on the squad who will nail this position, OR I will sell whatever star player doesn't perfectly fit the mold of one of my key positions. It's likely that this will be the case, that you will have a good player but not ideal, and if he's not ideal for one of the three main roles, move him on. 

The key attributes I always look for in my RPM are the following: Passing, Vision, Technique, First Touch - must be 15+ Additional attributes that are very important, but you may be able to skip one or two Dribbling, Anticipation, Off the Ball, Decisions, Team Work, Work Rate, Agility and Balance - must be 13+. Of this previous set, the mentals are most important, including work rate, as the roaming playmaker needs to hustle to keep up with and push play from back to front. 

Now, the game does not itself seem to create many Roaming Playmakers. What I have had the most success with is to search for Advanced Playmakers. But do this without selecting any position. See below

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When I was at Portsmouth, my RPM was Junior Chavez. He was one of my favorites, and had what I consider a bonus in that he was either footed. 

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Now that I have moved to Valencia, I have a lower transfer and wage budget by far, and had to get a younger player who is in the right mold, but needs to continue developing. Here is my new RPM. You can see that he is not identified in game as an RPM, his actual best position is listed as AMC, AM-S. But look at his attributes and compare to my list above. 

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I have immediately moved him to the spot in my tactic, and started him on training as an RPS. His acceleration is a little low and since he's still only 21, I have him right now on quickness training and learning the PPM Tries Killer Balls Often.

 

Let me know if you have any questions. I'll do a post like this for each of the key positions.

 

 

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The second key position I'll highlight is the AP-A. This player is very important, as they will either get lost in the shuffle, or be a difference maker. We are looking for production out of this spot that looks like chances created, key passes, and decent numbers of both assists and goals. The player I have in mind is like a hybrid of a shadow striker and an advanced playmaker. In game, I would prefer to use the AM-A  p/r/d, but the issue I have with that is the player simply will not get enough touches in the game. So the player will play as an AP-A, but I don't need him to be as much of a playmaker as the RPM.

Finding the AMC

In an ideal world, you would have two players who fit the mold for the RPM, but one with slightly better physicals and attacking attributes than the other. Another option is to have a second RPM who is "in training", so maybe younger and not as good, and you can play this guy in the AMC role. But, if I were to search for this player from scratch, I would take all of the RPM attributes and search for those at 12/13+. I would prioritize work rate, anticipation, off the ball, acceleration, agility. Then I would look for some attacking attributes like finishing and long shots. Again, like the RPM, the game does not naturally create a lot of players that are "shadow strikers", so I would just search with the AMC position selected and no roles. But then search for these attributes.

Some solid PPMs can help in this role. I like moves into channels, tries killer balls, plays one two passes, gets further forward.

Bonus

It's great to have a really good penalty/free kick taker on your team. If you can find an AMC like the above, but he also has high free kick and penalties, this is a huge bonus. 

Training

Once you find your guy, I would train him first for the AP-A p/r/d so that he gets tactical familiarity quickest. Once he is familiar, then I would train him as a shadow striker. Prioritize training any weakness from the attribute core listed above, and then once you feel he is pretty well balanced, make him a star in either free kicks or penalties. 

Below is my project AMC  for my new Valencia squad. He's 24, so still has some room to grow based on his coach report, but has most of the fundamentals I'm looking for. If we had a better budget, I would get someone much greater, but such is life.

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47 minutes ago, coach vahid said:

Just one question... 

Do you use the same PI for the attacking version ? 

Great job. 

The attacking tactic has very few, only PI on the AMC. Pretty sure it's dribble more, take risks, and move into channels. 

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We finally had our first game against a top side, and destroyed Athletico Madrid 3-0. It was a brilliant team performance, with a good mix of play and goals. We played all but 10 minutes in our JdP tactic, and I mostly watched the game on full and on 2d. I've been using 2D a lot more lately, as it really helps me to see my team shape, and importantly how quickly the opposition is closing me down. This was discussed earlier in this thread, but what really helps for success with this tactic is to tweak your tempo in response to how aggressive the opponent's defense is. If they close you down quickly, you want a higher tempo. If they are slow to close you down and sit back, then you need to lower your tempo. The goal is that the opposition needs to close you down, as this is what creates the space for the free or third man. 

If you really have a stubborn defense, then slow the tempo, increase the width, and take dribble less off. If they aren't closing you down, then your team can dribble forward, as this will force the defense to close down the dribbler. But, removing dribble less is the last tweak for me, I do the others first. 

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We didn't dominate possession this match, but we by far had the better attacking play. We out shot them and had good shots on target. Our team had well spread good play, a good balance of good ratings and spread of chances created and key passes. 

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Look at this nice heat map, we are spreading them wide and using all areas of the pitch. 

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Through 10 games at Valencia, we are undeafeted, have not conceeded a goal in 7 games.

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I'm pleased that thus far, the team is adjusting well to what @zlatanera raised as a concern, the two seemingly very different tactical instructions. Below is how I monitor and train for this. Overall, the lower levels of familiiarity for most players is all due to PRD unfamiliarity, not TI based. 

Not sure if this is common knowledge, but very helpful to understand how to dig in to tactical familiarity quickly. Click on the star on the tactics window, then hover your mouse on the bar, where the arrow is. Here you can see each players tactical familiarity levels. This will inform you how you need to focus on your training. You can see here my AML is pretty established on all of the tactical instructions, but he's just lacking on the P/R/D. This is because I'm using the Treq in this position and he's never played it before. 

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Contrast that with my newest signing, my project AMC player. He also has not played in this PRD, but he needs to work on the attacking team mentality and his creative freedom instructions.

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So taking that into account, we can alter our training to focus on these items. Not all training schedules are created equally. Here we can use the general team training items as they are good at training tactical familiarity. here is an example, you want to make sure that what you're training actually increases the levels you are looking for. Of course, a broader one will lead to broader but less improvement, so this is just an example.

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The Tactical shadow plays are great, look here, you get mentality and you get P/R/D work. PRD is hard to get focused training on, so don't be shy about using the shadow play sessions.

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I have a specific custom schedule, borrowed from @Rashidi, that I use on international break/weeks without a game. This really hammers home PRD.

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Edited by 04texag
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Great thread and taken some of your principles to my 4th season Man Utd game. Currently on a 38 match unbeaten run in the league, 24 in this season and finally looks like I will beat Liverpool to the title (Finally!)

Thanks for the inspiration 😃

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3 minutes ago, MRAFTCT said:

Great thread and taken some of your principles to my 4th season Man Utd game. Currently on a 38 match unbeaten run in the league, 24 in this season and finally looks like I will beat Liverpool to the title (Finally!)

Thanks for the inspiration 😃

That's awesome! Glad to hear, interested in some specifics of what you've tried implementing?

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1 hour ago, 04texag said:

That's awesome! Glad to hear, interested in some specifics of what you've tried implementing?

I lowered mentality to balanced from positive, my GK, back 4, 2 CMs, AMC and Striker are on the same roles. My AML is IFs and my AMR is IW(A)

I have less TIs, only Wide and Be More Disciplined and use a split block for my press.

My team is incredible with the players I have but this change has really made them unbeatable ☺️

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       “There’s numerical, positional, and qualitative superiority. Not all 1 vs. 1’s are a situation of equality”

                                                                                                – Paco Seirul-Lo

It's time for a large update, as it's been awhile, and I've been pushing the limits of this tactical style even further. I'm so excited as I wrap up my time in FM 20, as this tactic has been extremely fun to work with, and I feel like it's really expanded my horizons in the game as I look forward to FM21.

Juego de Posicion - Creating various types of superiority

So far in this tactical series, we have explored some of the basics of JdP, mostly focusing on team shape and structure, ball movement to create space, and how to use the prior for numerical superiority. (these are all about positional and numerical superiority)

As of yet, we have really yet to dive in to two additional items. The first we will look at is how to use Overloads  to continue building on the idea of numerical superiority. The second thing we will look at is what is referenced in this post's leading quote qualitative superiority.

Qualitative superiority is another form of superiority. This is an idea that is well known. Searching for 1 vs. 1’s, 2 vs. 2’s, and more, but with an emphasis on those matchups being with your best players vs the opponent’s worst players.

 

Overloads 

 

“Move the opponent, not the ball. Invite the opponent to press. You have the ball on one side, to finish on the other.”

– Pep Guardiola

We have yet to dive in to the free man, or third man. When the team is in possession, they are aiming to pull the defense out of position by using quick passing, and sometimes dribbling. We have discussed this before, but when doing so, the free man or third man is the player off of the ball who can move into the space created when the defender moves to close down the ball or passing lane. This is an important concept to understand, as overloads are looking to exploit this, typically with long flat passes that are switches of play. If you recall from one of the first posts, we had screenshot examples of tight passing then the long switch to the AMR in acres of space on the flank. That AMR is the free man. 

In general, overloads are designed to play faster and tighter in very small spaces. You overload one side of the pitch with fast play. The goal of which is to draw the defense in and break the defenses shape, and in doing so, you create open space on the far side of the field, which enables a switch of play to an open flank. That player typically has both space, and a great view of the rest of the field. That player then can make offensive moves of dribbling into space or laying off to another attacking player who is taking advantage of the defensive shuffling back to regroup. 

So, how do we pull this off in FM? What I've done is take my base JdP tactic, and slightly alter a few key positions in order to force an overload, as well as have a player ready to recycle and switch possession. Lastly, you need someone to receive that switch and do something with it. Below is the tactic, and then I'll explain it. 

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This tactic is design to overload the left side of the pitch, focusing on the left channel, recycling possession to the circle, and switching to the right flank. In order to pull this off we have made a few key changes to our standard JdP tactic. The AML is set to Winger with hold position PI. He needs to stretch play to the far left touch line. The left CM is changed to Mezzala-A, this is the key player of the overload. He is designed to drive hard into the left vertical channel and combine play in the interior lines of the defense. See the field diagram below, I've highlighted the vertical channel we are looking to exploit/overload.

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The Mez is going to drive into this red highlighted channel. The rest of the surrounding players will be supporting this area as well, with the forward changed to a CF-A, he will drop a little lower to help build up play for the overload. The AMC is changed to an EG-S, as I want him more static. The CM-D on the right will drift towards the center, sitting in the circle, and the FB-S is on sit narrow, to provide less width than the winger but be in a position to support possessesion on this side of the field. When the team is attacking the left side, we should generally look like this:

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This positioning drags the defense out of position as they work hard to try to break up our quick passing play on the left, which naturally opens up the left side of the pitch for the switch of play. Our AMR is set to wider, get further forward and take more risks, as I want him receiving the ball ready to advance and then make the assist or goal himself. 

 

All of this talk on overloads is to show a way I have modified my base tactic with a slight tactical variation. I use this as a tactic I switch to for short periods of play while in game. It occupies a training slot full time, but is never priority trained. 

The next post, I will build on this overload concept and talk about the qualitative superiority, how I use this idea in conjunction with the overload tactic to try to break down stubborn defenses. 

 

Edited by 04texag
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I have no idea why the last post formatted funnily with the white text boxes, hopefully this below one does not. 

Qualitative Superiority

In general, we want to get advantageous scenarios for our team, which would be 2v1s 1v1s, etc. But it's even better if we have those situation with our BEST players versus the opposition's weakest.  Consider the below quote:

Movement of the ball and the players is how signals are communicated in football, so if a player checks into a space to receive a ball very quickly, the defenders might match this intensity and follow the player and leave a free space to be exploited, or a free man. Siegbert Tarrasch[9] talks about chess in a way that is comparable to this aspect of Positional Play:

“Weak points or holes in the opponent’s position must be occupied by pieces, not pawns.”

– Siegbert Tarrasch

Meaning that your very best players should be the ones who are the men in between the lines. They are the ones who will most skillfully exploit the holes in the opponent’s defense as well as perform the most valuable actions for the team. Examples of these players in Guardiola’s time with FC Barcelona are: Xavi Hernandez, Lionel Messi, Andres Iniesta, and Sergio Busquets.

I take all of the above to mean that in the context of working on our team's overloads, we should ensure that our best players are the players in the middle performing the overload. Now, I think it's important to note, these should be our best technical, on the ball, and passing players, as we will be using quick combination play to execute the overload. 

Thus, when I look to put my overload play on, I often will shuffle my players around to ensure that I have the right players in key positions. Often, if you have followed my player criteria in previous posts, this means switching my left CM with my AMC. Based on my ideal player criteria, the AMC is better suited to being the Mez than the typical CM who plays as a RPM. Additionally, the RPM usually is well suited to play as an EG. 

Additionally, the result of my overload is to typically create 2v1's or 1v1s with my AMR or my striker. Thus, I will shuffle players as needed to make sure that my best finishers are located in these two spots. Ideally, the better passer of the two will be on the wing, as he will receive the switch pass and most likely dribble and pass to the CF. 

 

I know the last two posts are a lot of theory, but hopefully the idea of overloads and how to shuffle your player positioning for qualitative superiority are interesting to you and you learned something new. 

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Ah yes, one thing I forgot to mention. I have flipped versions of both my base and my overload tactic. That way, I can look at the opposition team analysis and performance during a game to try to identify which positions are their weakest. I will use my left or right overload accordingly, and also I will position swap my players to get my best players in the best slots on the field. 

 

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On another thread there is a nice Pep tactical discussion, and I don't want to hijack their thread more than I already have. That said, Pep is the most famous and successful proponent of Positional Play, or Juego de Posicion. The main differences between what I've been doing are between utilizing a 433 team shape (PEP) and a 4231 shape (Juanma Lillo). I've been doing the 4231, so that I can get better pressing, more players in attack easier, and also still maintaining a holding player in the circle, similar to Pep in a 433.

Fun thing to note, City this year are using a 4231 much more, with Rodri and Gundogan as holding midfielders. Why might you ask? Because Pep has hired his mentor as his new assistant coach, none other than Juanma Lillo.

Pep's 433

Pep naturally tried to get overloads from his players. One thing you'll note about watching city, is that they very regularly switch which side of the field they are overloading in any given game. Sometimes they will overload the left vertical channel, as I mentioned in my post above. But sometimes, walker will play more like an overlapping WB and they will try to overload the wide right flank. They vary tactically like this throughout a match to cause confusion for the defense, all with the goal of breaking down the defense's shape and thus create a free man, or the third man as discussed just above.

Pep's sides typically attack into a 1-2-3-5 shape. The 3 is usually comprised of one holding midfielder and the two advancing full backs. The CM's push forward and the 5 up top will roam around a lot during the course of the game. Some of this is hard to replicate tactically without manually impacting some of it during a game through position swapping. That said, we can statically account for some of it with the tactic. Below is the base tactic, then I'll show key PI's. I've posted elsewhere a passing tree and average positions if you're interested in that sort of thing. 

image.png.647c95fabd22b556dbc796590340dab3.png

I'm not 100% on the role for Aguero, I would play with False 9, CF-S and CF-A up top. Pep likes the striker to drop deep, but his City incarnations have the striker pass the ball off and help build up the approach play, which is different from when Messi played as a false 9 and would dribble much more. Thus, I'd try the CF roles. 

Here are some PI's, again, some of these can be played with based on in game performance and your players, but the CMS and AML AMR I think are fairly important.

Silva:

image.png.7a74d7824f52569ce5325c0901a189c3.png

De Bruyne:

image.png.acfa3398df9fe872baf21eeb55b2ce9b.png

 

Bernardo:

image.png.dc62e08538953b154f902ef92abfa0b1.png

Sterling:

image.png.993dbb5eeec130f1e62173879798734c.png

 

 

 

 

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Just a quick update on my Valencia squad. We finished our first season at Valencia and got off to a high flying start. We finished 2nd place to Barca, with club records for points, wins and fewest losses. We set a shutouts record and longest streak without a loss.

image.png.31c9ca4e41d0b2dfd04f21a3299d5d54.png

 

Throughout the course of the year, my team consistently played well, but that was in spite of my players being consistent. We had to constantly rotate, and I never felt comfortable with a best 11. We got roped into players I wouldn't have normally picked, and that hurt a bit. This off-season we are clearing out a lot of dead wood, older under performing by high wage earning players, and bringing in some key defensive depth. We also have found 1 young playmaker that I'm super excited about. Meet THE GUY. He's labeled in game as the next Michel Platini (since he's french), so pretty excited about that. Would love to develop him into a ballon d'or winning player, I've never had one.

image.thumb.png.ecb0e742c192e5a6e97dd02ead049d28.png

This guy has insane stats for an 18 year old, PA to develop further, perfect starting player traits, but he's a mercenary. I know you can mentor this away, so we shall see. I'm hopeful to get this improved and when he gets a new contract, going to give him lots of performance bonuses to dangle a carrot. Any advice on this personality is welcome.

 

 

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I know, I was surprised, as they actually had a very good team. They are unloading a lot of talent, which I was able to pick up a young LB whom I like.

 

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There are likely 1-2 weeks left in FM20, and with that, I'm going to get aggressive with testing variations on the JdP tactic, as I will be aiming to do a long term save fully devoted to JdP, with youth development, training, etc all geared towards long term success with this. Hopefully in the same vein as one of @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!'s great threads (I in no way can stand in his light, but that will be how I intend to pattern the save/post). 

So, without further ado, here is my new variation that aims to really push the buck. We will be going much more attacking, and utilizing more defend duties and a "structured" team fluidity in order to keep our Area of Cooperation (AOC) in tact, while pushing faster up the field to get more attacking pressure on the opponent. I want more chances created, more assists, more goals. I also want more attacking consistency. I'm willing to sacrifice defensive stability in order to get more attacking impetus. I'll still be focusing on the three superiorities: position, numerical, qualitative. I also want to really push my players to determine more about which positions, attributes, player traits, etc are all most important. I expect to fail some but that's FM.

I hope you guys continue to enjoy this thread as I slightly deviate and experiment. 

image.png.a584e78e01a9724ebc0fc49c5714b59a.png

 

 

 

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After playing through preseason and the first few games of the season, I have adjusted the new tactic. I dialed it back to Positive team mentality, and took off pass into space and hit early crosses. Whereas on cautious mentality, I needed to push the players to make some more positive plays, once you move to positive or attacking, the team would far too often launch long splitting balls that would go out of bounds because my own players wouldn't quite reach them. I don't have an exceptionally fast team, so might partially be due to that, but I also don't want to skip past our fast passing play through the middle. Below is the tactic, and a wonderful highlight.

 

 

image.png.73138d0e350bd53aba330ccf31d32270.png

 

image.png.d71d17b3165c92bc8f6dae7f427ad8ac.png

 

image.png.e6ecb44ab90d623534666734cb61f656.png

 

image.png.7c9e7995b27bf00628acad54e22e8fff.png

Ignore the preseason loss, as this was a packed schedule and all under 20s playing that match.

image.png.6e193fcc197efe3b3708a7bdcb5ea958.png

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3 hours ago, 04texag said:

Below is the tactic, and a wonderful highlight.

That's a wonderful switch of play. Enjoying this thread very much! :thup:

Do you mind sharing PIs for this tactic? Also, what's your thought process behind IW-At? If I understand correctly, you want to overload your left side, which frees the RMD for a quick switch, so would Support duty on the left flank not lure the opposition in better?

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The Pi's are almost all the same as the previous ones, I'll check again to make sure though. As for the IW, yes, I usually have it as an IW-S with stay wider PI. I think I missed changing that back after the last game.

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Quick update, I think I'm on to a solid evolution and progress with the JdP tactic with the latest full tactic I shared. We are still pretty stable defensively, but our offensive production is much improved. Now, mind you, club wise, I'm with a much younger and less developed team now with Valencia, than the powerhouse Portsmouth I had developed over the last decade in game. But the constant, is the Spain National team. We are currently halfway through the World Cup qualifying section. We are playing well at 5,1,0 out of 6 played. But the draw was early, and the last four games have been post this newest tactic. 

image.png.7488fc93bbf337818686f88406a9cdd2.png

Sure, the competition isn't great, but one of my longstanding gripes with FM is my team always plays down to lesser competition and we barely eek out games. We are really playing with a good attacking impetus and controlling possession, tempo and chances well.

Here is Valencia's current form. We had some tight draws, but overall doing well.

image.png.719d898733c1633faedb3daa5bf3162c.png

 

The last game, our toughest draw in the champions league saw us dominate the higher classed Dortmund. Our play was phenomenal early in the match, as they pressed us very aggressively, and we played out from the back without a problem. I did make adjustments, as they pressed us agressively, I moved our tempo up one notch to pass quicker. Then, in the second half they really backed off of us. So, I lowered the tempo back down a notch.

Also, I have still been using the OL tactics posted earlier in the thread, although just for about 5-10 minutes per half. I think it's good as it slightly modifies some of the runs players are making off of the ball.

image.png.7565c9d96c15bbed5ff56a03520b6d05.png

Ample chances created and key passes.

image.png.98b596077127d08dc39f7ec61b760733.png

 

 

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Quick off topic, yet slightly not, side note. I may not be able to do as many updates over the next month. I'm participating in NaNoWriMo this year, so a lot of my free time in November is spent trying to get ~1600 words a day written. Also, there is FM21 coming up, but my plan, especially if anyone in the community is interested in it, is to ultimately do a tactical series adopting this style in FM21. So bear with me, but please feel free to ask any questions if you're trying out the JdP for yourself.

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@04texag Just wanted to say I've been enjoying this topic thoroughly- the 4231 has always been one of my least favourite formations but I've been trying out your tactics and the football that I see is very nice.

For context, I've been trying them out with a thoroughly outmatched York team in the Championship, and we've been impressive. The tried and trusted aggressive 442 I'd been using has, for the most part, given me better results. But the process is starting to come through with this new more technical style of play, and I was tired of seeing the same cross-head-goal or cross onto the onrushing winger for every single highlight. So thank you, and I'll be looking forward to hearing your new work in FM21.

A couple of questions:

1) Footedness, especially on the wide forwards. I assume you tend to play the RMD with a left foot and the IW(s?) with a left as well? Or are both inverted. Or do you think it doesn't matter so much. Also, on your OL tactics, do you try and play the Mezzala on his strong foot i.e. CML with a Left foot and vice versa?

2) Any advice for an away from home tactic/changes for a weaker side? I've just played a couple of games with the latest version of your new tactic at home and won both 1-0, but was very happy at the limited chances the opposition had and my strikers missed several sitters (can't wait for xG to be introduced so I can know I can trust my eyes when they tell me we should'e won by more!). The OL tactics can be useful for applying a quick bit of pressure in bursts, but what about away from home, or against much stronger opposition? Do you tend to just roll with the normal tactic and tweak as you see fit. My worry is that a tactic that is reliant on possession dominance will struggle against similar possesion teams on their home turf.

3) I'd be interested to hear your logic for why you tweaked to a poacher- I've always had much more success with a CF-A in a 4231, and you were previously using an AF to push that back line further back. Why did you go with a poacher? And pros and cons of RMD over IW-A or IF-A?

 

Thanks a lot :) 

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15 minutes ago, Flußkrebs said:

@04texag Just wanted to say I've been enjoying this topic thoroughly- the 4231 has always been one of my least favourite formations but I've been trying out your tactics and the football that I see is very nice.

For context, I've been trying them out with a thoroughly outmatched York team in the Championship, and we've been impressive. The tried and trusted aggressive 442 I'd been using has, for the most part, given me better results. But the process is starting to come through with this new more technical style of play, and I was tired of seeing the same cross-head-goal or cross onto the onrushing winger for every single highlight. So thank you, and I'll be looking forward to hearing your new work in FM21.

A couple of questions:

1) Footedness, especially on the wide forwards. I assume you tend to play the RMD with a left foot and the IW(s?) with a left as well? Or are both inverted. Or do you think it doesn't matter so much. Also, on your OL tactics, do you try and play the Mezzala on his strong foot i.e. CML with a Left foot and vice versa?

2) Any advice for an away from home tactic/changes for a weaker side? I've just played a couple of games with the latest version of your new tactic at home and won both 1-0, but was very happy at the limited chances the opposition had and my strikers missed several sitters (can't wait for xG to be introduced so I can know I can trust my eyes when they tell me we should'e won by more!). The OL tactics can be useful for applying a quick bit of pressure in bursts, but what about away from home, or against much stronger opposition? Do you tend to just roll with the normal tactic and tweak as you see fit. My worry is that a tactic that is reliant on possession dominance will struggle against similar possesion teams on their home turf.

3) I'd be interested to hear your logic for why you tweaked to a poacher- I've always had much more success with a CF-A in a 4231, and you were previously using an AF to push that back line further back. Why did you go with a poacher? And pros and cons of RMD over IW-A or IF-A?

 

Thanks a lot :) 

First off, glad that you're enjoying the series. Positive feedback is always helpful encouragement :)

Great questions. My stuff is always considered a WIP, I tweak tactics endlessly, and you've picked up on some unusual PRD assignments which are tweaks trying to push the envelope of the tactic.

1- I generally prefer to play wide forwards with opposite foot to flank ( a left footed AMR). That said, unfortunately my Valencia squad doesn't fit this. I'm working on retraining my youth so that I can have this. I'm also working on playing these as true Wingers on Supports, with the cuts inside trait. But my team doesn't have these players right now. If the tactic was in it's ideal state it would likely have W-S on both sides, I'd maybe tweak the PI's slightly, be opposite footed, and PI's for cuts inside. 

2 - I'm super excited to see xG as a way to understand tactical settings beyond just game to game performance. Should be immensely helpful, if the feature works as intended. To answer the question, i would use the original cautious version of the tactic for any CL, difficult matches, away matches, etc. 

3 - Poacher, is not the right role, I don't think. I was wanting to push the envelope of the AF-A even further, wanting my striker to really push the back line. My current striker really is my best goal scoring threat, he's 6' and great at headers, and he has 16 teamwork, which will help him still play more like an AF. I'm currently experiementing with him occasionally as a PF-S/A, to really pressure the back line at the transition even more. We shall see, although his 5 goals through 6 games utilizing this new tactical and the Poacher role says, maybe I should leave well enough alone.

My starter at AMR, could be an amazing finisher as well, and I wanted to try to experiment with the space explorer role. My tactic really pushes naturally to overload the middle and left vert channels, so the space should be there for a RMD on the right. Between my two players that have split time in this role, they have 2 goals and 4 assists through 6 games.  I think I'm going to continue with the RMD when one of the two players plays here, but the other is a youngster that I'm moving to train on the left flank as mentioned above.

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1 hour ago, 04texag said:

First off, glad that you're enjoying the series. Positive feedback is always helpful encouragement :)

Great questions. My stuff is always considered a WIP, I tweak tactics endlessly, and you've picked up on some unusual PRD assignments which are tweaks trying to push the envelope of the tactic.

1- I generally prefer to play wide forwards with opposite foot to flank ( a left footed AMR). That said, unfortunately my Valencia squad doesn't fit this. I'm working on retraining my youth so that I can have this. I'm also working on playing these as true Wingers on Supports, with the cuts inside trait. But my team doesn't have these players right now. If the tactic was in it's ideal state it would likely have W-S on both sides, I'd maybe tweak the PI's slightly, be opposite footed, and PI's for cuts inside. 

2 - I'm super excited to see xG as a way to understand tactical settings beyond just game to game performance. Should be immensely helpful, if the feature works as intended. To answer the question, i would use the original cautious version of the tactic for any CL, difficult matches, away matches, etc. 

3 - Poacher, is not the right role, I don't think. I was wanting to push the envelope of the AF-A even further, wanting my striker to really push the back line. My current striker really is my best goal scoring threat, he's 6' and great at headers, and he has 16 teamwork, which will help him still play more like an AF. I'm currently experiementing with him occasionally as a PF-S/A, to really pressure the back line at the transition even more. We shall see, although his 5 goals through 6 games utilizing this new tactical and the Poacher role says, maybe I should leave well enough alone.

My starter at AMR, could be an amazing finisher as well, and I wanted to try to experiment with the space explorer role. My tactic really pushes naturally to overload the middle and left vert channels, so the space should be there for a RMD on the right. Between my two players that have split time in this role, they have 2 goals and 4 assists through 6 games.  I think I'm going to continue with the RMD when one of the two players plays here, but the other is a youngster that I'm moving to train on the left flank as mentioned above.

Thanks for the response. Maybe it's a slight cop out but I've settled on an AF for that centre forward position- I've been scoring from so many through balls and he seems somewhat static as a poacher, AF working well right now.

One more question- how have you found the CM-D? Sometimes I feel like he's a little too wide. Here's his average position on the ball:image.png.37ebd6f303394a87f687a128cfa9af72.png

Now, on the old cautious version of the tactic I didn't mind so much as he'd drop back into the right back slot frequently to cover for the right back. But now, as a WB(d) on teh latest version, the Right Back behaves more cautiously, and sometimes I find that the CMd is bunching up with him out wide rather than operating as part of the left side oriented AoC. 

Any thoughts on this? I think when he was a CMs it was a little better at operating centrally with the RPM/AP. But I don't want to sacrifice the extra defensive cover that the CMd provides. I might try with stay wider off for a few games and see how it fares. 

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So, I might be experiencing some slightly different results due to player and specifically player traits. I have not noticed my CMd and right back being tight positionally, perhaps because my right back has still be moving forward a fair bit due to traits. My CMd is a position I play a high work rate, high anticipation dlp type player. I have three who all can play it well right now, it's one of my deepest positions on the roster. I'll specifically watch this the next few matches though and report back. 

Tactically, I wish I could play an anchorman, as that's actually what I want to see out of this player. Maybe I should try a dm strata version for kicks in a cup match with a anchorman on the right and rpm on the left, all else the same. 

 

As for the forward, the AFa is probably still the right role here. I just think with a lack of good scoring threat from my AML,  wary of not scoring enough and forcing the issue with the poacher. 

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OH MY   

https://www.footballmanager.com/news/match-engine-ai-fm21

 I'm pretty excited reading through these upcoming match engine updates. It looks promising for all of us, but honestly, for this style of play, I think they've nailed some of the large ME issues that prevent this style of play from truly shining. I can't wait to play with the new ME and see how I can get some of these ideas working.

 

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On 23/10/2020 at 16:38, 04texag said:

The second key position I'll highlight is the AP-A. This player is very important, as they will either get lost in the shuffle, or be a difference maker. We are looking for production out of this spot that looks like chances created, key passes, and decent numbers of both assists and goals. The player I have in mind is like a hybrid of a shadow striker and an advanced playmaker. In game, I would prefer to use the AM-A  p/r/d, but the issue I have with that is the player simply will not get enough touches in the game. So the player will play as an AP-A, but I don't need him to be as much of a playmaker as the RPM.

Finding the AMC

In an ideal world, you would have two players who fit the mold for the RPM, but one with slightly better physicals and attacking attributes than the other. Another option is to have a second RPM who is "in training", so maybe younger and not as good, and you can play this guy in the AMC role. But, if I were to search for this player from scratch, I would take all of the RPM attributes and search for those at 12/13+. I would prioritize work rate, anticipation, off the ball, acceleration, agility. Then I would look for some attacking attributes like finishing and long shots. Again, like the RPM, the game does not naturally create a lot of players that are "shadow strikers", so I would just search with the AMC position selected and no roles. But then search for these attributes.

Some solid PPMs can help in this role. I like moves into channels, tries killer balls, plays one two passes, gets further forward.

Bonus

It's great to have a really good penalty/free kick taker on your team. If you can find an AMC like the above, but he also has high free kick and penalties, this is a huge bonus. 

Training

Once you find your guy, I would train him first for the AP-A p/r/d so that he gets tactical familiarity quickest. Once he is familiar, then I would train him as a shadow striker. Prioritize training any weakness from the attribute core listed above, and then once you feel he is pretty well balanced, make him a star in either free kicks or penalties. 

Below is my project AMC  for my new Valencia squad. He's 24, so still has some room to grow based on his coach report, but has most of the fundamentals I'm looking for. If we had a better budget, I would get someone much greater, but such is life.

image.thumb.png.d444ce20f23e290a4394d3f1282b9a00.png

I always play 4-3-3 but I love signing players like this to play as the most advanced central midfielder. Whilst they need to have excellent technical attributes my blueprint for the perfect player would be one with good;

Composure: will be playing in the most congested area of the pitch. This means he'll come under a lot of pressure from the most physical players in the opposition lineup, so, he needs to be calm under pressure.

Decision: being the creative force he needs to pick out the right passes and make the right moves in the final third to aid the team.

Teamwork: it's important he prioritizes the team over himself. I noticed players with low teamwork tend to play longshots more often, whereas, those with a higher rating tend to lay off the ball to onrushing teammates.

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4 hours ago, sherifdinn_ said:

I always play 4-3-3 but I love signing players like this to play as the most advanced central midfielder. Whilst they need to have excellent technical attributes my blueprint for the perfect player would be one with good;

Composure: will be playing in the most congested area of the pitch. This means he'll come under a lot of pressure from the most physical players in the opposition lineup, so, he needs to be calm under pressure.

Decision: being the creative force he needs to pick out the right passes and make the right moves in the final third to aid the team.

Teamwork: it's important he prioritizes the team over himself. I noticed players with low teamwork tend to play longshots more often, whereas, those with a higher rating tend to lay off the ball to onrushing teammates.

Those all make sense. I think for me I'm not sold on composure as necessary although logically it makes sense. I've always heard of composure super important for goal keepers, central defenders, and forwards. You could argue of course it's important for everyone. But for the reasons you mentioned about congestion and pressure, the two that I would add to decisions and teamwork would be balance and first touch. The AMC is working in tight spaces and will need to be strong on his feet, and able to quickly get the ball under control and back out again. I really like vision here as well. 

In my second season at Valencia, I have moved my young RPM up to the AMC spot. Here is Leray currently. 

image.thumb.png.c171e1321866c5399ee6737425fe10d3.png

 

My complete stud in training, MINUS THE MERCENARY personality, is the GUY. He's training and playing as my RPM and he is really showing some bright flashes.

image.thumb.png.39a834af30a1765f3682f85cffd75aeb.png

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On 02/11/2020 at 11:53, Flußkrebs said:

how have you found the CM-D? Sometimes I feel like he's a little too wide. Here's his average position on the ball

I've been watching this in recent games, and I really have not had an issue with the CM-D, he generally will move and stay pretty central. When we advance up the right flank, the WB-D does get pretty far forward and he will cover here. When we are central or on the left side, he sits right at the mid circle, just where I want him for recycling possession and putting on the switch. When I pull up the average position analysis, I it skews his position a little right, but watching the highlights on full in 2d, I'm comfortable with where he's at. 

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29 minutes ago, One hell of a keeper said:

Love this thread could you post the tactic in here of the last formation pic? Can see the overall instructions but not sure about individual ones

I'm working through some more variation testing but I can do another update soon. I'm probably going to do one more final version update for FM20 before I start planning for FM21, etc.

 

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2 hours ago, 04texag said:

I've been watching this in recent games, and I really have not had an issue with the CM-D, he generally will move and stay pretty central. When we advance up the right flank, the WB-D does get pretty far forward and he will cover here. When we are central or on the left side, he sits right at the mid circle, just where I want him for recycling possession and putting on the switch. When I pull up the average position analysis, I it skews his position a little right, but watching the highlights on full in 2d, I'm comfortable with where he's at. 

Yes that's very fair. Been playing a few games more with a slightly adapted version of the tactic (I tend to start on standard tempo and adjust accordingly, and will often push one of the full backs onto a support duty, and playing with an AF instead of a poacher) and I'm having solid results. 

2 more thoughts on the tactic-

1) You spoke about footedness on the wingers in the tactic (preference for inverted on both) and I think I agree. But what about the RPM and CMd? The sheer amount of position I've had I think it's really important to think about the passing angles that different footers opens up. Say you're using the version with the RPM on the left and CMd on the right (as the tactic can be flipped).

Considerations:

CMd- needs to be able to recycle the ball, and play back and short passes to the centre backs, same-sided full back, and the RPM. A left footed player would encourage more play down the flank, playing more to the WB and the Raumdeuter. I think a right-footed (same-sided) player is preferable here, to direct play inwards and play more passes with the RPM.

RPM- A right footed (opposite-sided/inverted) player here would encourage interplay with the IWs and FB and encourage more in-out-in or out-in-out underlapping moves. Switches of play out to the Raumdeuter would be possible but would require an inward run or a pause and deep cross, inswinging the cross for the Raumdeuter to run onto. A left-footed player would make that switch a little more natural I think, and encourage more central play. The IWs comes centrally a lot anyway so playing with a left footer should be no problem on that front.

I've been tending to stick with left footer as LCM and right footer as RCM, but only because I'm lucky enough to have one of each foot for each of the roles. But I'm wondering what you use with your personnel, and what you'd use ideally. Noticed any difference?

and briefly, 2) speaking of that switch of play to the Raumdeuter, I've been pleasantly surprised by how much tracking back and dropping deep the Raudmeuter seems to do. But just as often, oddly enough, I've seen the switch out to the IWs as I have the Raumdeuter. Which is the opposite of how I understand the tactic is meant to work. Both occur, but not that I've noticed one more than the other particularly. Are you still using the Raumdeuter role, or have you switched this at all? I imagine it's a matter of personnel. 

 

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1 hour ago, Flußkrebs said:

Yes that's very fair. Been playing a few games more with a slightly adapted version of the tactic (I tend to start on standard tempo and adjust accordingly, and will often push one of the full backs onto a support duty, and playing with an AF instead of a poacher) and I'm having solid results. 

2 more thoughts on the tactic-

1) You spoke about footedness on the wingers in the tactic (preference for inverted on both) and I think I agree. But what about the RPM and CMd? The sheer amount of position I've had I think it's really important to think about the passing angles that different footers opens up. Say you're using the version with the RPM on the left and CMd on the right (as the tactic can be flipped).

Considerations:

CMd- needs to be able to recycle the ball, and play back and short passes to the centre backs, same-sided full back, and the RPM. A left footed player would encourage more play down the flank, playing more to the WB and the Raumdeuter. I think a right-footed (same-sided) player is preferable here, to direct play inwards and play more passes with the RPM.

RPM- A right footed (opposite-sided/inverted) player here would encourage interplay with the IWs and FB and encourage more in-out-in or out-in-out underlapping moves. Switches of play out to the Raumdeuter would be possible but would require an inward run or a pause and deep cross, inswinging the cross for the Raumdeuter to run onto. A left-footed player would make that switch a little more natural I think, and encourage more central play. The IWs comes centrally a lot anyway so playing with a left footer should be no problem on that front.

I've been tending to stick with left footer as LCM and right footer as RCM, but only because I'm lucky enough to have one of each foot for each of the roles. But I'm wondering what you use with your personnel, and what you'd use ideally. Noticed any difference?

and briefly, 2) speaking of that switch of play to the Raumdeuter, I've been pleasantly surprised by how much tracking back and dropping deep the Raudmeuter seems to do. But just as often, oddly enough, I've seen the switch out to the IWs as I have the Raumdeuter. Which is the opposite of how I understand the tactic is meant to work. Both occur, but not that I've noticed one more than the other particularly. Are you still using the Raumdeuter role, or have you switched this at all? I imagine it's a matter of personnel. 

 

We think similar on this. I have only played a right footed CM-d in the CMR slot. I have used both at the RPM slot and I prefer a left footed player here. Although, I'd actually prefer an either footed player at the RPM slot. I really like the flexibility of either footed players. I prefer them at RPM, and the AMR/AML locations if you can get them. 

For some of the more specialty roles, I've been finding in FM20 moreso than previous versions that differing players can really alter the outcome of how the role is played. Work rate and team work can really make a big difference on how some of the offensively minded specialty players plan, helping them to contribute to pressing and defensive cover. On my current Valencia squad, my AMR and AML are my weakest positions, whereas at Portsmouth before they were arguably my strongest. So still not sure about the results from those spots. ALthough, when managing Spain, we dominate out wide.

 

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We are winding down on time before the beta and FM21 hits, which with the recent news and features, I'm super excited about. But, we won't leave FM20 and this save behind without a first for me, managing a team in the World Cup!

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I've never really given national team management a thorough go, but it's been a blast so far. My spanish side has adopted the JdP quite well, and I'm hopeful of a deep run in the World Cup. 

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We have our last qualifying game, and as Spain has already qualified, we have a lot of our second teamers playing. I'm really wanting to solidify who my backups are before the tournament. And this happened, an absolute GEM of a team goal. I counted 22 passes, I think EVERY Player on the team touches the ball at least once, with full depth and width of the field used. 

If there was an FM representation of how to get this style of play to look and feel in the game, I think this highlight might be it. My only issue with it, is we are not getting much pressure from Lithuania, but they are sitting deep/defensive and we methodically break them down.

 

Enjoy

 

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A quick update on where my York squad have got so far this season using these JdP principles- we're sitting 6th in the table for context

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Some brilliant results although a little blunt in attack, including a 12 match all comps undefeated run. That 424 wide you see against premier league West brom is what I've been using when I've been experimenting with a little, just off setting the striker to help with defence splitting passes on the counter

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Using Regroup, and standard tempo and passing and offsetting the striker has, to the eye and stats test, been very successful against the big teams, especially when defending a lead. Maybe not that latest result though...

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6 (!) clear cut chances and 15 shots on target, vs their 2 and 10. And that's with a 33 year old Harry Maguire in their backline, against my team of only Yorkshire born or raised (I'm  doing an Atletico Bilbao style save) players, with an average starting 11 age of just 21. 

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Completely dominant in the air, the RPM and AP(A) and IW making some brilliant passes, but most of all... 10 shots on target out of 10 from my off set centre forward. 10! And not a single goal :( Their keeper got a 7.8! For context, so far this season Son Heung-Min has 10 shots on target TOTAL. So yes, finishing and some incredible keeping clearly let us down, but the underlying numbers would seem to suggest that this counter attacking tweak to the principal formation is working how it's meant to. 

Tactically, the idea behind off-setting the centre forward was to achieve two things that either reinforce our JdP principles or strengthen us against teams looking to dominate us:

1) Either their defence gets dragged across to their left to combat the increased overload of the AF, AP, IW, RPM and FB all operating in that area, which leaves even more space for the RMD to run into

2) Or, they don't shift over to combat the overload, which nearly forces the AF to sit in the channel between the LB and LCB, giving him greater ability to run into space on the counter, or letting him help out the IW and RPM overload on the right.

I have been struggling after my opening few games to get goals from any one playing in that centre forward spot- I appreciate that part of his role is to force back their defence to create space for the players behind him (which works) but we have also needed goals. Some quick maths tells me that as the Centre Forward (off set or not) before this latest West Brom game he was averaging 1.79 shots on target/90 (which IRL is pretty phenomenal btw, but FM numbers don't match real ones at all from my experience- for context in the prem this season only 5 players are averaging higher than that). And in that one game, he had 10! So if he had his finishing boots on the plan should have worked :onmehead:I wonder what his xG would have been....

Our key team stats in the Championship after 15 games:

Chances Created/90: 1st - 3.7 :) 

Possession: 1st- 57% :) 

Goals/90: 9th- 1.5 :(

Shots on Target/90: 10th- 7.4 :( 

Conversion rate: 9th- 10% :( 

Pass completion: 5th- 87% :) 

Goals Against/90: 5th- 0.93 :) 

Tackles won/90: 15th- 23.1 :( 

Tackles won %: 1st- 92% :) 

Headers won %: 2nd- 65% :) 

So the lads are defending brilliantly, although not particularly actively, we're playing some brilliant football in the way we want- keeping possession, crisp and accurate passing, but also creating some brilliant chances, not just possession for the sake of it. All good. But our shot volume and conversion are both lower than I'd like, so goals naturally are also low. I'd be happy if we were low volume but clinical, or high volume but wasteful, but instead were just bang average at both. Something to work on for sure. 

In the league we've scored 7 goals from crosses, 5 from through balls, and 4 from set pieces, plus some others. We score 60% of our goals from the central penalty area, plus a further 23% from the 6 yard box, and only 9% from range. 

However, we've also conceded 4 goals from through balls (sometimes easily cut open and vulnerable in the Defensive Midfield zone) and 22% of goals against us have been from outside the box! This again seems to be an issue with leaving too much space outside the area, either for a long range shot or for a nice through ball. 

Finally, something I am happy with, is that we've converted 75% of our CCCs, but our opposition has only converted 50%. Plus we've restricted them to just 10 in 15 games, whilst we've created 25. So chance creation and (CCC) conversion is good, offensively and defensively. It seems to me that our issues are when it comes to non CCCs- we have a very low level of shot and shot conversion so we're creating little end product unless it's a 'proper' chance. 

Have a good weekend all! 

 

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1 hour ago, Flußkrebs said:

Tactically, the idea behind off-setting the centre forward was to achieve two things that either reinforce our JdP principles or strengthen us against teams looking to dominate us:

I really like what you've been doing so far and glad to see others trying this out. I have yet to try using the tactic with any lower league or mid table teams, and unfortunately I will run out of time before FM21 hits. That said, tactics are remaining the same but ME AI is changing in the next version, so I'll be able to continue on with this series although seeing slightly modified results.

So, for your offcenter approach, one way that I have done this in the past is by assigning individual marking assignments. I'll watch the other team play and try to determine which of the center backs remains further back. I will have the striker man mark this CB, and then have my AMC man mark the other one, both with tighter marking. This can help to have your players stay close to the should of these particular players and then try to make more aggressive runs into space after transitioning.

My most recent tactic, which I have not posted yet, has seen a lot more activity from the AF-A, and more balanced offensive and defensive play. I have had two games in the past month where my AF-A has gone ballistic, scoring 4 goals in a game on two separate occasions. It's been a thing of beauty.

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  • 04texag changed the title to Tactical Series - Juego de Posicion (FM20/FM21)

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