Changes for a big game - My example with FC Porto

[lfds89]

So, I took a break from managing Tottenham to try a few things. I started a save with Porto. To put into context. 2nd best team in the league very far from 3rd; squad has high work-rate/teamwork, low flair, starting with 2 ageing CBs, Telles nearing the end of his contract (btw, I'm playing the last official 19-20 Winter update) and that's about it. Sold Telles and Aboubakar (and a few other unnecessary players), bought Çelik and Tsimikas (and Hlozek for the B team).

As I was expecting to be pretty dominant on most games, I've decided to go for an attacking setup.

Don't mind the selected players, it was just a quick pick after a game.

General idea about the tactic: let them play a bit, press, then we have 3 options: if there's space behind the defense play direct to the PF (usually Marega); if they are deep, build on the wings (where we find space) and cross/pass (usually the LWB-A to PF-A/RIF-A); and have the BBM and BWM shoot from outside the box (Sérgio Oliveira is particularly good). Don't have Wide instruction all the time, depends on opposition. No PIs.

This works on the League, but now I was facing Chelsea and I was a bit worried this tactic was too attacking. So I decided to make a few changes:

Still attacking mentality, but dropped the lines a bit, set it to regroup and asked for more direct passing. Some OIs : mainly on Kovacic who had plenty of the ball on previous games (marking and tackling), and tackle hard on Kanté (his dribbling is low). Worked wonders. Absolutely controlled the game. Shots were 10-2 at half time. 4 of their shots were on the 76+ minutes.

First goal: Sérgio Oliveira outside the box found Tsimikas getting into the box and he scored with a diagonal shot; second goal came through a Tsimikas cross to Diaz, GK prevented the goal but Marega scored on the loose ball. Had one chance through a corner (Pepe headed to the GK) and two chances for Marega following crosses from Tsimikas and Çelik (low cross from inside the box).

Have to say, I find attributes each and every time more important. For this game I also had a specific team selection mainly on midfield with high teamwork and work rate: Danilo 17 (TW) / 15 (WR), Oliveira 16/15, Baró 15/16, Otávio 15/16, Diaz 11/13 (low, but it was the best from the wingers).

I still have some difficulties getting the OIs to work. Didn't see much from Chelsea's midfield however Kovacic finished the game with 100+ passes and 4 key passes (not a great measure of success, should be said, as these key passes were mostly to the wing, but...) so I'm not happy with how it worked...

What about you? What do you change for big games?

[afailed10]

I also play with Porto and the only change i usually do is to press a little later to stay more organized. Then depending on the selected players i'll tweak the roles and that's it! Not to say it's too little though.

[Prizo89]

Nice thread. It's helped me because I really struggle against bigger teams.

[lfds89]

I felt this was the way to go and I've tried some more strategies.

First one was against Braga. Had a game against them a few weeks before and I struggled. Won 3-1 but more of a lucky win than a deserved one. So this time I was playing them for the cup. They have a pretty strange tactic. 3 cbs, 2 wbs, 2 dms and a front 3. This obviously creates a lot of space between the front 3 and the back 7! so instead of playing a more direct game, I had to build from the back. The team played way better, however the result was a 2-2 on regular time with a 90 minute equalizer and eventually beat them on penalties.

Tactical changes: Positive Mentality, Distribute to CBs, Slow Pace Down, Hold Shape, Shorter Passing and Play out of defence. Slight overkill on building from the back. But my team is not used to it, so felt like it should be reinforced. No change in roles or duties.

Match Stats

 

Not quite happy with the score, but very happy with the performance. Shooting was awful. Many of those off target weren't difficult shots.

 

Second game was the 2nd leg of the group phase against Lille. Analyst Report told me they were most vulnerable against 4-4-2 and on the last few matches they had less than 5% attacks through the middle.

Tactical Changes: So, if you recall or check the tactic from Braga's game I usually have LWB, RIF and PF on attack, but I wanted to have a 4-4-2-like tactic so I decided to switch the CAM-AP-S to SS-A and the RW-IF-A to AP-S. Right winger will help defend the side, SS will be near the striker. Also: defend wider. I advise you to be careful with this instruction. The space between my CBs was bigger and they had Osimhen ready to sprint (doesn't help the fact that my two CBs are over 32 and both have 12 for pace). I suffered the goal this way... Then I decided to switch Pepe to cover and they barely created any more danger. I've also changed Danilo to CM-De on the 2nd half and felt safer in the middle (they play with a CAM) with little to no compromise on attack. Also no "Wide" instruction on Attacking Width

Match Stats

Considering I had lost the first game, this was a great improvement. Had almost the same shots, same chances created but defended much better and passing went up from 79% to 87%, possession increased from 47% to 61%. Also, nice to see my CAM having a great game, since the strategy was all about him: 6 dribbles, 5 shots, 76% pass. acc. on 26 passes, 4 key passes, 1 chance created and 1 goal.

Edited October 12, 2020 by lfds89

[lfds89]

On 08/10/2020 at 16:35, Prizo89 said:

Nice thread. It's helped me because I really struggle against bigger teams.

Glad it helped! Hope to get a few more examples on this thread.

[Keyzer Soze]

Hi, 

if you don't mind i'm gonna take advanged of this thread to ask for some help.

Currently managing Benfica, playing with a 4123 wide DM formation. So far, so good. 12 games overall, 11 wins, 1 lost.

Of course the lost was away in the champions league, against Ajax. Lost 1-0, but what really got me mad was how ineffective the changes i've made, to make the tactic more defensive, worked.

So, this is my tactic:

DLF(a)

IF(s)                                  W(s)

AP(s)      CM(a)

DM(s)

WB(s)      CD(d)     BPD(d)      WB(s)

SK(s)

The defensive midfielder has the instruction to hold position.

Mentality: Positive/Attacking depending on the opponent

TI's: shorter passing, be more expressive, distribute to center backs, counter-press, higher D-Line, More urgent pressing, Use offside trap

 

In the game against Ajax, i decided to use a more defensive aproach. Nothing to drastic, at least i think it wasn't. My idea was having more defensive/more counter attack tactic to use agains bigger team in the champions league. This it was i came up:

 

DLF(a)

IF(s)                                  W(s)

DLP(s)      CM(a)

DM(d)

WB(s)      CD(d)     BPD(d)      FB(s)

SK(s)

 

So, only 3 changes in players roles, just to give a little more defensive stability.

Mentality: started with balanced.... didn't work.... change to positive... even worst

TI's: shorter passing, distribute to center backs, counter, Lower LOE, more urgent pressing

The idea was having a low block, that applied pressure, got the ball and launch counter attacks.

The result... Ajax won 1-0... they got 30+ shots agains me and plenty of chances to score... i've got none. They completely trash my team.

Now, i don't even know what the problem was.... is the idea of setting a low block against bigger teams a good aproach? if so... did i set it right?

I really need some suggestions on how tweak my main tactic to play against bigger teams. I don't want big changes.... just some small tweaks to let me defend better and make some good counter attacks.

 

PS: @lfds89playing against Braga is a really difficult challenge. I always struggle against that formation, manly because how both their wide players (WB+IF) stay so close in attacking transition that i just can't defend that. Really hard formation to play against.

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by Keyzer Soze

[lfds89]

@Keyzer Soze,

 

1. Give me some context: First season? What's your usual line-up? Have you changed it for the Ajax game?

2. Have to make this remark: although I usually favor possession football, FM seems to work better with more direct football, so I might not be the best help. On my Tottenham save I was working on possession, but could never make it work that well.

3. About the roles changing:

WB to FB - WB has 2 more PI than FB: Get Further Forward and Run Wide with Ball

DM-Su to DM-De - 3 different PIs: Hold Position, Dribble Less, Shoot Less Often all on DM-De, plus player mentality drop

AP to DLP - DLP has Hold Position

So now you have 3 more static players than before, besides the overall mentality drop, that's quite a change. But let me analyse more carefully when you tell me which players you are using.

About the Braga game, yes, they are definitely challenging. My biggest tactical challenges on FM20 were Braga and Wolves. And they play similarly, Wolves with 2 CM, Braga with 2 DM. Two things I will try against them: playing IWBs instead of FB/WB so I can draw their wingers inside and prevent that overload (might leave their WBs with too much space though) and playing a DLP instead of the BWM. Don't really feel the need to play a BWM against a team who mainly attacks through the wings and DLP will ask for the ball which is what I want from those 2 players. Although could also consider a RPM which is a more attacking/creative version of the BBM.

All in all, the most important thing against them is drawing those 2 DMs out of their positions so you can have space in front of the box.

[Keyzer Soze]

19 hours ago, lfds89 said:

@Keyzer Soze,

 

1. Give me some context: First season? What's your usual line-up? Have you changed it for the Ajax game?

2. Have to make this remark: although I usually favor possession football, FM seems to work better with more direct football, so I might not be the best help. On my Tottenham save I was working on possession, but could never make it work that well.

3. About the roles changing:

WB to FB - WB has 2 more PI than FB: Get Further Forward and Run Wide with Ball

DM-Su to DM-De - 3 different PIs: Hold Position, Dribble Less, Shoot Less Often all on DM-De, plus player mentality drop

AP to DLP - DLP has Hold Position

So now you have 3 more static players than before, besides the overall mentality drop, that's quite a change. But let me analyse more carefully when you tell me which players you are using.

About the Braga game, yes, they are definitely challenging. My biggest tactical challenges on FM20 were Braga and Wolves. And they play similarly, Wolves with 2 CM, Braga with 2 DM. Two things I will try against them: playing IWBs instead of FB/WB so I can draw their wingers inside and prevent that overload (might leave their WBs with too much space though) and playing a DLP instead of the BWM. Don't really feel the need to play a BWM against a team who mainly attacks through the wings and DLP will ask for the ball which is what I want from those 2 players. Although could also consider a RPM which is a more attacking/creative version of the BBM.

All in all, the most important thing against them is drawing those 2 DMs out of their positions so you can have space in front of the box.

Yeah, first season, 

This is my usually starting 11:

Odysseas(Sk) 

Tomás Tavares (WBR) 

Ruben Dias

Ferro

Grimaldo (wBL) 

Fiorentino 

Gabriel (AP) 

Chiquinho (CMA) 

Rafa (If left) 

Pizzi (W right) 

Vinicius 

Against Ajax, I played with Weigl as AP and Gabriel as CMA. 

 

[lfds89]

@Keyzer Soze,

I wanted to check if players fitted their roles:

Odysseas - low passing, first touch, rushing out and command of area. I would suggest keeping it simple and setting him to GK-De

Tavares - Decent to play WB in the league (will be your weak link, but he's better than most opposition). If you are changing to FB then I would definitely suggest playing André Almeida. Way better as a defender.

Rúben and Ferro - they are both great. Make sure you set the corners so they score some goals.

Grimaldo - Brilliant player. Would probably play him as CWB-S on the league. Keep him as WB on CL.

Florentino - Love his mental attributes. Would play him DM or A. Test both ways and see what works better. BWM on my 4-2-3-1. He already plays short which is good for him.

Gabriel - AP seems to fit him on attributes, but he has the Shoots From Distance trait and AP has "Shoots Less Often". He's a bit better than Sérgio Oliveira in almost everything. BBM and RPM are also fitting. Would probably choose BBM over CMA for CL and RPM over APS for League games.

Chiquinho - If you switch to 4231, play him as AP-S (with Gabriel as BBM and Florentino as BWM). On a 4-3-3, CM-A seems fitting, you could also consider MEZ. Will get to it in a minute.

Pizzi - Has great crossing, so fits as Winger, no pace/acceleration so support is better

Rafa - IF-A if I were to choose. Use his speed. Make him take risks with his positioning.

Vinicius - I don't like his attributes that much, but he's definitely your best choice for ST and I can see why DLF: Strength and Balance without Jumping Reach. Plays With Back to Goal helps on the role. Moves into Channels fits as DLF-A has that PI.

Weigl - Great mentals, so definitely a good choice for tough games. DLP instead of AP, I assume it was a mistake. He has no off the ball, might hinder his ability to play this role. 

 

I have some suggestions:

On your usual tactic:

GK-De : Odysseas

WB-Su: Tavares

BPD/CD : Dias

BPD/CD : Ferro

CWB/WB-At : Grimaldo

A/DM-De: Florentino

RCM AP/RPM/BBM-Su : Gabriel

LCM MEZ-At : Chiquinho

IF-At : Rafa

IW-Su : Pizzi

DLF-A : Vinicius

My idea: You create on the left with Grimaldo, Pizzi and Chiquinho; you finish on the right through Rafa with Vinicius also ready to receive a cross or lay it to Gabriel to shoot from distance. Can also try with Chiquinho on the right as CM-A, just as you had; Gabriel on the Left as RPM: Gabriel to join Pizzi and Grimaldo on the left creating the chances and Chiquinho also showing up to finish.

For more difficult CL games, don't change Mentality or formation. Benfica has a good enough squad to fight Ajax and to take a bit more risk than balanced mentality will get you. Just drop the lines a bit. Then I would go with:

RB FB-Su: Almeida

LB WB-At: Grimaldo

DM DLP-De : Weigl

LCM (to help cover Grimaldo) BWM-Su : Florentino

RCM RPM-Su : Gabriel

You'll have Florentino chasing guys in the middle and Weigl's decisions and composure will help building from the back. You'll lose some mobility on the right back role, also on the DM, but you'll keep a runner on BWM.

 

This are just my ideas. In no way I consider myself an expert on FM.

[Keyzer Soze]

@lfds89

Thank for taking the time for such a detailed response. 

I'll give it a go regarding the suggestions about the more defensive tweaks. 

I also like the idea of putting Grimaldo as a CWB. Gonna try that against weaker teams. 

[lfds89]

In the words of Gattuso: "sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe sh** "

What happens when you plugNplay and don't pay attention to the game?

 

Didn't read the reports, didn't watch their previous games. Just switched to the tactic of the first game, chose the same players and it was a totally different game... Barely made any changes throughout the game and we were a mess. Never seen the AI react this way, but when I man marked Kovacic, they switched him around: first as LB, then RCB. Don't know if it was a response to my tactics or some AI thing I couldn't understand.

Pulisic was great and I didn't do anything to stop him. He had 4 dribbles, 2 assists (though 1 from set piece and 1st goal was a Pepe mistake - we had the wing back and left winger on defence, 3 vs 1 to defend the cross), most touches on the ball of every player on the pitch...

Most important thing to retain: it works once, doesn't mean it always work. Pay attention to details, always.

[lfds89]

New Case: vs Belenenses. Report showed me they were playing a bottom heavy 4-2-3-1. 2 DMs, 2 WM, 1 CM, no players on the AM strata. Petit is their manager and he has Park the Bus as his style, so it was fitting

So, my first thought was: no point on playing a top-heavy formation as my players will be in the congestion, not in space. Starting tactic as follows

Basically, dropped the AM (AP-S) to CM (BBM-S), asked DLP and BWM to stay wide so they would stretch the opposition midfield and added play out of defence.

I should also say I'm also trying out opposition instructions and I'm happy with some results. I'm mainly setting up a sort of box trap not exactly like Liverpool, because my striker and wingers don't press from the blind side, but I'm leading the opposition to the places where I've got numbers: (CMs-AM space). I don't have the screenshot, but the main principle is:

GK - Show weak foot

FB - Show inside foot

CB, DM and CM - Show inside foot or weaker (for central CB, DM and CM), tackle hard and press

WM/W - Show inside or weaker (if they are "Left/Right Only" and playing IW/IF)

ST - Show weaker foot

Started the game, was controlling the play but felt roles weren't suited to the spaces we were finding; also Romário had more touches than any other player by quite a margin, so I decided to change a bit:

Ideas: If Romário has more of the ball, he should be the playmaker (BBM-S to RPM-S), Ferreira now can only focus on stretching the play (DLP-S to CAR-S), they can't counter so FB-S can be FB-A and don't need the winger to cross/create, I prefer him to be ready to shoot so IW-S to IF-S. I've also changed sides for my CBs: Leite prefers playing on the Left and now he doesn't have a playmaker in front of him, so don't need to have him on the right side. Also important: I didn't need my striker to be so focused on the pressing, I wanted him to be more involved on the game so DLF-A instead of PF-A. TIs: play shorter and lower tempo, no need to rush it.

First goal came from a long shot by Romário Baró who was in a lot of space in front of goal, then some set-pieces (1 DFK, 1 Pen, 1 corner - not usual). Some intricate plays and full control of the game. They only had one shot where they hoofed the ball and their target man managed to beat my CBs on pace and shot wide.

 

Btw, this game was just 3/4 days after a Europa League game, so I played a rotated squad