[FM20] Not creating chances in a 4-2-3-1

[TheJanitor]

I'm playing as AC Milan using a 4-2-3-1 formation:

Only PI is Hold Position for the CM/s.

The tactic is defensively solid and keeping possession, but we don't create enough quality chances, particularly for Rebic and Ibrahimovic. Most of my chances are long shots. I think there's need to be an element of directness added but I'm not sure what. Tried chancing the AMR to W/s and the FBR to FB/s without much difference.

[GianniM]

You could try your DLF on support and your change your AMC into a Shadow striker to add more movement up front. 

@Experienced Defender always recommends to combine Work ball into box with Be more expressive as to not overcomplicate your attacking play, which has worked fine for me. 

And/or switch to a positive mentality. 

Something I like is to change the AMR to an Advanced Playmaker with a Wingback on attack behind him. 

Don't know if all this would suit your players' abilities though, just some ideas. Bottom line is you need more movement and less predictable play. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by GianniM

[xavierm]

I think "Play out of defence" and "Work ball into box" are overkill if you use both of them.

It means you'll be playing a short passing game in your defense and in front of their defense. They'll have plenty of time to regroup and park the bus.

[HanziZoloman]

That’s the point. I don’t see much movement up front so you are easy to defend. A striker like an aging Ibrahimovic needs support around him. He pins up two opponents CD there should be plenty of space in your AM strata. There you have Calhanoglu with good longshots, maybe try him as an APs/a. And for the cutting in Rebic you need some space, maybe with an overload on the other side. 

also a two striker formation could work good for the duo Ibra/ Rebic. With Ibra pinning the defenders and Rebic finishing them of. Like DLFa and AF.

godd luck

[Johnny Ace]

Balanced, Play out of defense & WBIB are all very safe options

Then out of possession it's very aggressive 

Roles & Dutys look alright, I'm not convinced with the DLF when you have an AMC, I think you need more of a spearhead role up top (AF, PF, P etc) with the IW on attack rather than the IF

 

  

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, xavierm said:

I think "Play out of defence" and "Work ball into box" are overkill if you use both of them

It's not an overkill if he wants to play a hardcore possession style. However, WBiB can overcomplicate the play - and in the worst-case scenario lead to a loss of possession in a dangerous area or at an inopportune moment if players are not good enough to keep possession under pressure. That's why I prefer to combine the WBiB with BME, as @GianniM rightly pointed out  

 

11 hours ago, TheJanitor said:

The key issue in terms of roles and duties IMHO is the combo of roles/duties of your MCR, AMR and AMC, as they are likely to compete for space and thus potentially obstruct one another. 

Out-of-possession TIs could prove too aggressive given that you use more urgent pressing and prevent GKD while having less-than-optimal compactness (especially in a system like 4231). 

Hopefully the above remarks will give you some useful food for thought 

[TheJanitor]

Thanks for all the feedback. Wasn't able to play much today but I'll try to play with it and see how it works.

Thinking about changing Zlatan to DLF/s, the AMC to AM/a, AMR to W/s and MCR to BBM. Remove one or both possession instructions and add Pass into space.

[GianniM]

I don't really like a BBM in this formation, because I think he will get in the way of all the other players up front. 

But there are others doing it, so see for yourself. 

[Bunkerossian]

On 18/09/2020 at 18:35, GianniM said:

I don't really like a BBM in this formation, because I think he will get in the way of all the other players up front. 

But there are others doing it, so see for yourself. 

I am also playing with Milan right now, and I'm thinking whether a CM-Su or a BBM role is better. Struggling to make Ibrahimović work. I already know pressing the GK is useless with him up top.

[sporadicsmiles]

Ibrahimovic is not a very mobile player, so as a striker you will want to use him in two ways. One is as a player who can get the ball and force players to commit while he plays other players into the game around him. The other is to just be available in the box to score chances since he is an excellent finisher who is (I think) also good in the air. 

So I will echo the idea that you need a lot more movement around Ibra. I actually think that changing from AMC to SS should really help, and then possibly the DLP from defend to support to better provide a stable midfield. You can add some solidity on that side of the pitch using a WB(D) (or a similar role) so you are not too exposed but still have a passing option there. I like your right flank already, but your central midfielder on that side can be very fluid. By that I mean change his role to exploit whatever space or chances you are being given. If it pays to overload the middle, do it. If it pays to have him help overload a flank, do it. If it pays to drop him a little deeper to draw out the midfield, do it. This guy you should use situationally, as there is not one specific role you will always want him to fill. 

In my Milan save I could never get Rebic to do anything useful at all, I eventually just gave up on him. I think he was not suited for the role I wanted him to play. 

On the WBIB, I would experiment with not using it once you have changed your roles around. You should naturally create deeper build up play, and you do not want to inhibit the chances this can create by forcing players to be safer. Experiment with it and see what works best. I'd tend to avoid using WBIB for things like stopping shooting from range or stopping wide crosses. You can almost always fix those issues by changing something else tactically that is either causing or encouraging them. 

[Draakon]

I play similar formation. What I do differently.

1) reverse roles for AMC and ST. It means DLFs and AMCa. AMCa challenges the box from deep and scores some goals. DLF supports attacking moves (good passing and vision can make a huge difference for this player)

2) don't use WBIB. When teams are parking the bus you can't find space around it and it gives them time to drop deep.

3) I use mixed passing and tempo

 

Player PI-s are also important. Try to create width to your formation. I use:

• AMCa - roam from position, take more risks
• Winger on one side and IF/IW on the other side. IF/IW is ordered to stay wider when team has possession 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Draakon

[GianniM]

23 minutes ago, Draakon said:

don't use WBIB. When teams are parking the bus you can't find space around it and it gives them time to drop deep

Not necessarily, I use it all the time and it works for me. I guess it comes down to the right combination of TIs.