Brilliant attackers, creative players - struggling to create & convert chances.

[wige]

So, to start off, I've uploaded the tactic I want to discuss. 

Background:

I'm in the 26/27 season as Liverpool. The vast majority of the starting squad have been moved on and replaced with self-developed newgens and one or two big money signings. My attacking players are, as far as I can see, about as elite as it gets. We create lots of chances, but maybe not enough clear cut ones. Regardless, we're getting a lot of shots but really struggling to convert - maybe it's a run of poor form, but it feels like it's been like this for a while and that the last league title was basically won on the back of corners and penalties - they were responsible for a large portion of the crucial opening goals. I think this was backed up by our European/cup performances. Generally we've gone deep in the CL and lifted one of both of the domestic cups. The last season we went out early in them all. In the CL it was at the first knockout stage - albeit to a solid Bayern team. Crucially we got an away goal in a 2-1 first leg defeat but then were unable to score in a 0-0 at home - pretty much unheard of.

Tactic:

Aim - to control games, pass and play with creativity, score majority of goals through the attacking three players with midfielders and set pieces picking up some of the slack.

Current Squad:

I'm running a smaller squad of 21 players this season, this is generally how I like to approach it - almost 2 players for each position, but 5 for the 3 forward spots. I think I had about 25 last year but 3 or 4 of them barely got a minute. Here they are, in order: 

Subs:

I could chuck Keita and Henderson on here if people want to see them, but it'll push me over the data limit as it is.

Results so far:

We actually started the season quite well:

2-0 vs Arsenal in Community Shield
3-3 away to Saints (PL)
3-0 home to Leicester (PL)
4-0 away to Newcastle (PL)
Lost 1-0 to Brighton at home (PL) (they're sitting 6th after 11 games
2-0 Leeds away
3-1 Benfica H

It's here that things have started to dry up. Also worth bearing in mind that I've been pretty reliant on the godly Matios (CF) for a lot of my goals and aside from that, a fair amount of penalites, free kicks and other set piece goals.

results from here on:

1-0 Everton Home (PL)
2-1 Colchester away (CC) (League one side)
3-0 Sheff U away (PL) - the main outlier
2-0 Konyaspor away (CL) - beaten 7-0 by Atletico Madrid in prior game.
1-0 Chelsea home (PL)
1-1 Tottenham away (PL)
0-0 A Madrid away
1-0 West Ham home (PL)
3-1 Norwich away (CC) (Champ'ship side)
1-1 Birmingham away (PL) (bottom of league conceded 29 goals in 10 games prior to me)

This may not seem all that bad, but I'm seeing us create a lot of decent shooting opportunites, take the Spurs game (21 shots, 9 on target, 15 of them inside the penalty area) or the West Ham game (39 shots, 7 on target!, 18 inside the pen area) - the west ham game in particular seems crazy to me, I don't see the forward players I'm lining up with and their attributes equalling a shots on target ratio of 7 from 39 (exaggerated I realise as others were involved, but I think the point stands)

Anyway - trying to learn here and understand what it is that I could change to try and reach the goals I've set out above - possession football, creative passing, creation of good chances, players hitting numbers you'd expect (around 1 in 2 for each of the forwards)

 

Positive 4-1-2-3 DM Wide - Custom Tiki-Taka.fmf

[afailed10]

From your description (good amount of shots but low conversion rate) it seems you're giving too much time for the opposition to regroup or already finding the box too crowded.

You can back off your pressure a bit to lure them out a bit and then explore the vertical space or/and make your transitions quicker. The first one is self-explanatory, for the 2nd you can replace regroup with counter and perhaps tweak some roles. For instance, a CWB-s is great and all but he will run with the ball often which is slower than a vertical pass. Sometimes it's better to use a (deceptively) simple FB-s/FB-a. Pay attention to the front 3 as well. Are the overlaps working? perhaps use a striker that likes to come deep. A DLF will hold the ball and slow you down. It's not necessarily bad but in FM20 you have to pay attention and tweak things if required.

PS: I didn't check your tactic throughtly but this is what I'd check first. Imo you should figure your things out otherwise it's someone's tactic and not fun at all!

Edited August 26, 2020 by afailed10

[wige]

thanks @afailed10

I think that regroup/counter setting had been flipped incorrectly whilst I was taking screenshots, was something I changed immediately after reviewing my post.

Agree on trying to figure things out, but I've been kinda stumped on this for what feels like a season and a half so wanted to see if I could drive some sort of discussion here. Also not sure if I'm trying to get results from a match engine that doesn't play like I want it to (based on some reading of complaints/criticisms on the general board here and around the internet - though I think a lot of that stuff is overly angry teenagers venting a lot of the time  )

[Jack722]

To be honest mate, your tactic looks alright. One thing I never like though is two inside forwards on attack duty, especially on positive, as your wide midfielders will need to do an awful lot of work considering they won't track back so much.

You're also extremely cautious on the ball. I would definately up the tempo and increase the passing directness at least a little. Camavinga is very capable of pinging long passes - which can create a chance out of nothing - but you're asking him to play really simple and basic passes with his duty and your tempo / passing settings. You also have Bellingham, who reminds me of Pogba a little with his really good physicals/dribbling as well as his passing. He can easily use his pace / dribbling / balance to drive at the defence in a more attacking system - allowing you to attack quickly before the opposition get into a solid defensive shape. I could say the same about your wingers.

You're also playing out of defence whilst having two ball playing defenders who want to play more risky passes. I'd either remove POD to allow your defenders to play the longer passes that they want to, or I'd keep POD and change both your CB's to standard CB's - so that they're more likely to pass the ball to Camavinga, rather than try something risky themselves.

Despite me disagreeing with your over excessive possession instructions, what I would do if I were you would be to add work ball into box. This is because you have no player who's going to be looking to get onto the end of crosses ( you only have one striker, who has poor jumping reach, and who's going to be dropping really deep anyway. Slowing down the play once you get to the edge of the box can be helpful as well, as it would give your players the patience to create that pattern which is so common with possession systems - with the striker dropping deep to 'pull out' a defender in order to create space for the inside forwards.

I think you could also score a lot of goals on the counter, seeing as your front 3 are mostly very quick as well as Bellingham's dribbling ability + pace to drive through the middle and carry the ball at speed without losing it.

[Experienced Defender]

I would only make a couple of rather subtle tweaks to your roles and duties, remove some needless instructions and be slightly less aggressive out of possession in order to allow more space to my (i.e. your) forwards. 

[wige]

Thanks @Jack722 and @Experienced Defenderfor your comments.

Jack, yours in particular gave me a few ideas and I've gone on a bit of a scoring/winning streak since. I ended up dropping both the inside forwards to support and they end up a lot more involved in the play and better positioned to finish off moves. Camavinga was moved to a support duty as well - a revelation. He's been incredible since, really seeing those traits of 'dictate tempo, switch ball' shine. He was already a defensive beast, now he's doing more offensively. The switch of the CBs to CDs played its part too. The Mezzala role was also moved from support to attack as I felt I needed a bit more drive from midfield if the IFs were reined in. 

Since scored 5 and 6 goals in games you'd expect and a superb run of wins vs the top 4. 3-0 away to league leaders Man City, 3-1 home to next league leaders United, 5-0 at home to 4th placed arsenal. 

A lot of this still seems counter intuitive to me even after years of FM'ing. So appreciate the advice. 

[Pasonen]

On 26/08/2020 at 03:03, wige said:

Aim - to control games, pass and play with creativity, score majority of goals through the attacking three players with midfielders and set pieces picking up some of the slack.

Maybe a stupid tip, but do you know dlp def do not play risky passes "that much" if you dont add it. Worth knowing if you want more to happen with the ball. You can try it for other cm's too but better not for everyone ofc.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Pasonen
Added "that much" :D

[Urotsukidoji]

Your tactic has all the disavantages of having a high defensive line and pressing game without the advantages. 

You want to win the ball high up and then what do you do? hold shape and start slowly passing it around?

Id speed up the tempo a notch change to the opposite hold shape.

This would work, with all your other instructions.

Id also play a little wider in a 3 man midfield. This is because the disadvantages of playing wide is runs through the midfield in a two man midfield but in your tactic you have a dmc, Then you would get the advantages of playing wide which is stretching the play and breaking teams down.