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While there has been a few great 1970 Brazil Recreation threads here over the years (especially one by @Cleon ) I feel like it's worthwhile to open up the discussion about it for FM20. I believe that the idea behind flair-based Jogo Bonito is very exciting and I am always looking for ways to create more beautiful, attractive football in FM which is not necessarily possession-focused football. But I do think that classic Brazil's style can be considered as a type of Total Football, at least in the way how the whole team is committed to playing in a singular way. And I feel that 1970 World Cup was the best representation of that. 

I have been working on an article about 1970 Brazil and planning to release it today. Rather selfishly I guess I will post it on here. But I also would like to see what people think about this historic team (some consider to be the best ever) and ways of recreating it in FM (any version) before I offer my own humble attempt at recreating it in a few hours.

Edited by crusadertsar
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I would say that replicating Rivellino will be the most difficult. He played on the wing when they attacked but tucked deeper and narrower when it was time to defend. If I were to try to replicate his behaviour I would try something like a Mezzalla on Attack (+hugs touchline trait?) as a part of a three man flat midfield. If that doesn't work I guess the second best thing is to forget about his defensive behaviour and go for an Inverted Winger on support. 

Next thing will be deciding where and how did Pele play. Was he a shadow striker? A complete forward? A false 9? a trequartista?(if so was he a striker or an attacking midfielder?). Jairzinho is an easy one to replicate, he was an Inside forward who sat narrower leaving room for Carlos Alberto. Tostao could score but also linked up with pele and Jairzinho so I think a supporting striker role will be the way to go.

To replicate the two holding midifielders I would probably go for a CM on defense and a Deep Lying Playmaker on support.

The backline included a very attacking Wingback in Carlos Alberto who was hardworking enough to track back and a midfielder turned centreback in Piazza who would often start the attack.

As for team instructions I would say  Play out of from the back and be more expressive are a must, the rest can be worked out from there.

My favorite brazilian player will always be Zico but that 1970 side was inmense. 

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@TheEasternWind Pele will always be the best Shadow Striker ever :D

I actually had a similar idea for Rivellino as mezzala on support with some specific player instructions. But definitely it's a complicated role in that system. Along with Pele probably the hardest roles to decide.

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5 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

@TheEasternWind Pele will always be the best Shadow Striker ever :D

I actually had a similar idea for Rivellino as mezzala on support with some specific player instructions. But definitely it's a complicated role in that system. Along with Pele probably the hardest roles to decide.

A second Idea for Rivellino has crossed my mind. A hardworking player playing as a trequartista in the AMCL position and told to stay wider.

Edited by TheEasternWind
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So this my article

Can also be found in its original format at: https://dictatethegame.com/2020/08/19/total-football-journeyman-jogo-bonito-benfica/

 

The advantage of using world-class team in FM20, is in the variety of tactics you can try on season-to-season basis. I started out my Benfica save attempting a more patient possession approach, reminiscent of Guardiola's Barcelona. Yet as my campaign continues, I find myself experimenting with more adventurous tactics. So in 3rd year with the Portuguese giant, I attempt to show that Total Football does not necessarily equal boring possession-focused football. It can also be an exciting attacking style. In fact, one way to fail at Total Football, is to create an overly conservative possession system. This is especially true when playing with a relatively strong team. In FM20, as in real football, you don't want to give too much time for opponents to organize their defence. But how to break them down while playing attractive football? The answer was, and still is, Jogo Bonito, Brazilian cousin to Totaalvoetbal.

 

Once Upon at Time in Mexico

1200px-1970_FIFA_World_Cup.svg_.png?fit=

This story begins in Mexico, in the year 1970. The year when most people still watched football in shades of black and white and when name Pele meant Football God. It was also the year when all the best footballers in the world, gathered for what became one of the most memorable tournaments in FIFA World Cup history.

It was truly a tournament of firsts. 1970 Mexico World Cup was the first World Cup tournament staged in North America. As well as the first held outside Europe and South America. And it was also the first to be broadcast in full colour. Millions of people throughout the world cheered on as the team in vibrant yellow and greens created magic on the television screen. So not surprisingly, it was this last fact that crystallized this Cup in the minds of a whole generation of football fans.

249793_0.jpg

It was also the Cup that gifted us this beautiful goal. According to many it was the finest World Cup goal yet scored.

So it wasn't just their charisma and colourful uniforms. The Brazilians did play some amazing football. Their manager Mario Zagallo (amazingly still alive in 2020 at 89 years old!) lined them up in a traditional Brazilian 4-2-4. On paper at least.

s5ft4iyrucpcda86j2p9pkyzrvu3rkdv.jpg

The back four included the world-class right-back Carlos Alberto (the author of the goal above), left-back Everaldo, and centrebacks Piazza and Brito. There was nothing extraordinary about this setup, except that Carlos Alberto enjoyed greater license to get forward, compared to his left-back partner. In the central midfield you had the double pivot of cultured holding midfielder Clodoaldo and deeplying playmaker Gerson. They held their positions for the most part, except one or the other would occassionally dribble forward to orchestrate attacks. As was the case in that Carlos Alberto goal.

Speaking of which, lets take a look at it again. I cannot get enough! BEFORE...

5218a316fdf9dacb87545c81faf5ef37.jpg

And AFTER!

D2WiCJ0WkAE5nNB.jpg?fit=662%2C662&ssl=1

So yes, Carlos Alberto was a hell of a player. But what made this team so amazing was that the other 10 players on the field were just as good, and in same cases even better.

Upfront you had the four of the five playmakers. On the left side there was Rivellino. He started in deep left position, as almost a central midfielder and then in when in possession of the ball would dribble out wide. From there he would either make diagonal runs towards goal or send long, laser-long balls towards the right side. On that flank we had Jairzinho who was a natural right-footer, best know for his lightning fast pace. Yet he would often fall back to wide midfield position when pressing the opposing full-back. Hence this how Brazil would look like 4-2-3-1 when in possession and as 4-4-2 when defending, out of possession.

pele-action-against-juventus-1959-copy.j

Making up the tactic's spear-head (ponta de lança) was the visionary Pele, greatest footballer ever. Pele, while playing as the #10 second striker, caused havoc through his intelligent movement with and without the ball. It was his timely pass to Carlos Alberto that was the final key to unlocking the defence. The other striker, #9, didn't play so much as an all-out attacking striker, as another supporting spear-head role similar to Pele's. This is a bit unusual to how Brazil would usually set up their 4-2-4. But Tostao was perfect for this role since he also played as a classic #10 playmaker for his club. Much like Pele he was a versatile attacker capable of playing all across the final third. So there you had it, the five traditional #10 playmakers playing on the same team, at the same time. Gerson, Rivelino, Jairzinho, Tostao and Pele.

If you would like to read up more about ponta de lança, the most fascinating role in Brazilian football, then please check out this great blog post:

Too Many Playmakers Dilemma

Starting my third season with Benfica, I am facing two distinct problems. And they are something that every FM manager will face at some point. That is breaking down tough defences while trying to fit all your best players into the First Team XI. Much like Zagallo's Brazil, I don't know what to do with all my forwards who also happen to be great playmakers. The obvious solution might be simply not to play all of them at the same time. Yet we risk losing a lot of our unpredictability and attacking flair as a result. As well as missing out on the development of some of Benfica's rising prospects. But like with 1970 Brazil, maybe somehow all of 2021 Benfica's creativity could be channeled into a single tactic. To summarize my problems (and essentially objectives for this season):

  1. Firstly, I'm not sure whether it's the nature of Portuguese League or my reputation, but I'm facing many parked buses. That is specifically, domestic teams which use 2 DMs and sometimes 3 CBs against us. It has gotten to the point where it cost me two League titles in a row. Coming in second to Porto was especially painful last season because we did so great in continental competition, winning Europa League for the first time in club's history. The team has been very solid defensively (only concededing 14 times!) but just couldn't score enough goals. When you get 7 draws in one season, you might as well kiss the title goodbye.
  2. My second problem is sort of two problems in one. As our youth team matures we are facing the problem of having too many players with a similar skillset (playmaking). Also there is the added issues of trying to fit a great young traditional striker star into a tactic that seemingly has no place for his role. Some might say that this is not a problem at all. Just loan him out until your formation can accommodate him! Well, here is my dilemma. I don't believe in loaning young developing stars out of the club.

The Benefit of Youth

4.png

In fact, I try to never loan out my young prospects. My one simple rule of thumb is the following. If a youngster is not good enough to even sub during a Cup game, then they will never make it. From day one, you need to have faith in your future First Teamer. If you believe he could one day be in your starting eleven, then you should nurture him in your reserves at least. Or even better, use him as a regular first team substitute. Remember that 20 minutes in a match will do more for his development than 90 minutes on the loan bench. This is why for this piece I decided to showcase a club with one of the best football academies. Welcome to Benfica and its Golden Generation of playmakers in FM20!

When it comes to youth development, it is almost always better choice to keep the youngsters you want to retain, close to your club. If I loan them out it is usually because I don't intend to keep them. That is because they don't possess enough potential for our First Team or their roles will never fit our style of football. For instance, a mentally-weak but technically-strong inside forward can improve his mentals with age, becoming a very well-rounded Total Footballer. On the other hand a selfish winger who cannot dribble or finish will be harder to retrain and even harder to justify his continued presence on the team. But a potentially world-class striker is much more difficult to let go.

So the following are the young players that I want to build my team around. Its an interesting group made up of very creative technical players with one pure striker thrown in the mix.

81CA82F8AA78240007FA81CA5E6C73BFE240AE92 Tiago Dantas - unquestionably most talented of the group. Captain material
B38C1874E8F32E800A8FA950BF1DAD6DA462DC08 Goncalo Ramos - is turning into a very creative complete forward
4528BF1F3C72755EF18C0C5055E450AC6DBD3E11 Chiquinho - the older role model to the kids
4638A71C4755561A0343BFDEE35B51810903B864 And finally Diogo Nascimento - the younger understudy to Dantas

As you can see I probably have more creativity in my midfield than most teams have in their whole 25+ player roster. It is both a blessing and a curse when it comes to First Team selection. To add to my troubles I also have a playmaker among my centrebacks.

87DEAB4BF211BCE965C98B98428A5EEE1A285481

Ferro is probably the most creative defender I have even seen in any of my FM20 saves. But over the last couple of months I have been getting incessant offers from most big clubs. Some going as high 100 million! Luckily for us he is our current vice-captain and exceedingly loyal.

Finally here is my young striker who I think has world-class potential. Definitely not as creative as the other bunch, but I simply cannot ignore his potential. And I am not one to believe that pure strikers have no place in a Total Football tactic.

B540D38E762E6FEF3DEA6F5C931C711434B439B4 Joao Resende - a world-class striker in the making? Or future Romario

Total Football and Pure Strikers

It is between Romário and Van Basten.

Diego Maradona
This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is 0_Soccer-UEFA-Champions-League-Group-A-Manchester-United-v-Barcelona-Old-Trafford.jpg Romario - a key part in Cruyff's Total Football "Dream Team" at Barcelona

Because even within a Total Football tactic, there can always be a benefit in having an opportunistic poacher. Just look how Johann Cruyff managed to fit Romario, one of the greatest strikers of all time, into his 3-4-3. Some might even argue that Cruyff moved away from his favourite 4-3-3 formation to an innovative for its time 3-4-3 at Barca, in order to accommodate pure strikers like Romario. Mr.Total Football himself called Romario "genius of the goal area" and the probably the best player he ever coached.

Romario wasn't known as a teamplayer or having top workrate. He might have spend a little over a year at Barcelona yet enjoyed the best season of his career there as he formed a deadly striker partnership with Hristo Stoichov. During this time, Romario scored 30 La Liga goals. In 1993/94, this ended his best ever record in a single domestic league. He also played in the Champions League final before winning 1994 World Cup with Brazil.

So hopefully Resende can become Benfica's Romario. Only time could tell.

The Lesson of History

And speaking of Brazil. Let us go back to Mexico to that scorching summer of 1970.

This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is 1451970.jpg

On paper Brazil's set-up could have be described as a rather traditional 4-2-4, a mainstay of Brazilian tactics for over 30 years. In practice however Zagallo's tactic was a combination 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1 or even 4-3-3 at times. Which was rather nontraditional at the time. I suspect that only Brazil could pull off such free-roaming style at the time. A perfect demonstration of the freedom of Brazilian Jogo Bonito.

Jogo Bonito was also a perfect example of how player roles can sometimes define the formation. In fact the whole tactic can be coded through roles with minimal to none team instructions. So it puzzles me why some FM players spend a lot of time discussing why certain shape is superior to another. But then when it comes to assigning the roles, people tend to do it willy-nilly without much thought on how they will affect other roles or the attacking shape of the formation. I blame the game design in this to some extent. Mainly because those full green circles on the tactical creator screen can be very misleading. And it leads to things like the following tactic.

0CC0169C8DAA547ACA17C516D23D1DAB0CE853BB WARNING! NOT A REAL TACTIC. Just a collection of full green circles. Looks pretty though.

Such tactic might look very nice in the tactical creator, especially if you are little bit OCD like me. In practice however, it could be the worst tactic ever with the roles that don't work together or suit the style. The only thing that the green circle tells you is how closely the player's attributes fit with the selected role. And sometimes it might not even include all the important attributes for that role. Thus it is always better to look at the player and judge yourself his suitability for a particular role.

1970s Brazil could be used as a case study of how the players themselves with all their unique instructions and traits make the formation into exactly what it is. And for that reason, Brazil's famous 4-2-4 was not a simple formation. It was a collection of some of the best footballers in the world at the time, and specifically five playmakers. All playing in a specific way to compliment each other. And how could it look in FM20 you might ask? Maybe something like this.

B9B8BD1601FFBAE6BE08D2C769DD56039497AB3E

My tactic is actually a mirror image of how I think Brazil played in 1970. This is done to fit the exacgt footedness and traits of my players. So to do an accurate representation of that Brazilian team, just imagine inverting everything left to right. Because the aggressove Complete Wingback Carlos Alberto, would be on the right, and not left. Now if you wish to try this formation out for yourself, be my guest and download it in the link below.

Tactic Download: https://ufile.io/e3y4tdat

I am currently testing it with Benfica and the results look rather promising.

2BE16390189F82B2AB18A7B96E95B078342E1721

It's still early in season, but winning two games with scorelines of 4-0 is longway from last season's boring 1-1 and 0-0 draws. Although, other than Braga and Dynamo Kiev we have not faced that much strong competition. And Liverpool game was sadly one-sided, after one my players got send to the showers early in the 20th minute. So the real test of tactic's mettle will come at Stadio San Paolo against Napoli. But that is a story for another day! For now, thank you for reading

 

 

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10 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

So this my article

Can also be found in its original format at: https://dictatethegame.com/2020/08/19/total-football-journeyman-jogo-bonito-benfica/

 

The advantage of using world-class team in FM20, is in the variety of tactics you can try on season-to-season basis. I started out my Benfica save attempting a more patient possession approach, reminiscent of Guardiola's Barcelona. Yet as my campaign continues, I find myself experimenting with more adventurous tactics. So in 3rd year with the Portuguese giant, I attempt to show that Total Football does not necessarily equal boring possession-focused football. It can also be an exciting attacking style. In fact, one way to fail at Total Football, is to create an overly conservative possession system. This is especially true when playing with a relatively strong team. In FM20, as in real football, you don't want to give too much time for opponents to organize their defence. But how to break them down while playing attractive football? The answer was, and still is, Jogo Bonito, Brazilian cousin to Totaalvoetbal.

 

Once Upon at Time in Mexico

1200px-1970_FIFA_World_Cup.svg_.png?fit=

This story begins in Mexico, in the year 1970. The year when most people still watched football in shades of black and white and when name Pele meant Football God. It was also the year when all the best footballers in the world, gathered for what became one of the most memorable tournaments in FIFA World Cup history.

It was truly a tournament of firsts. 1970 Mexico World Cup was the first World Cup tournament staged in North America. As well as the first held outside Europe and South America. And it was also the first to be broadcast in full colour. Millions of people throughout the world cheered on as the team in vibrant yellow and greens created magic on the television screen. So not surprisingly, it was this last fact that crystallized this Cup in the minds of a whole generation of football fans.

249793_0.jpg

It was also the Cup that gifted us this beautiful goal. According to many it was the finest World Cup goal yet scored.

So it wasn't just their charisma and colourful uniforms. The Brazilians did play some amazing football. Their manager Mario Zagallo (amazingly still alive in 2020 at 89 years old!) lined them up in a traditional Brazilian 4-2-4. On paper at least.

s5ft4iyrucpcda86j2p9pkyzrvu3rkdv.jpg

The back four included the world-class right-back Carlos Alberto (the author of the goal above), left-back Everaldo, and centrebacks Piazza and Brito. There was nothing extraordinary about this setup, except that Carlos Alberto enjoyed greater license to get forward, compared to his left-back partner. In the central midfield you had the double pivot of cultured holding midfielder Clodoaldo and deeplying playmaker Gerson. They held their positions for the most part, except one or the other would occassionally dribble forward to orchestrate attacks. As was the case in that Carlos Alberto goal.

Speaking of which, lets take a look at it again. I cannot get enough! BEFORE...

5218a316fdf9dacb87545c81faf5ef37.jpg

And AFTER!

D2WiCJ0WkAE5nNB.jpg?fit=662%2C662&ssl=1

So yes, Carlos Alberto was a hell of a player. But what made this team so amazing was that the other 10 players on the field were just as good, and in same cases even better.

Upfront you had the four of the five playmakers. On the left side there was Rivellino. He started in deep left position, as almost a central midfielder and then in when in possession of the ball would dribble out wide. From there he would either make diagonal runs towards goal or send long, laser-long balls towards the right side. On that flank we had Jairzinho who was a natural right-footer, best know for his lightning fast pace. Yet he would often fall back to wide midfield position when pressing the opposing full-back. Hence this how Brazil would look like 4-2-3-1 when in possession and as 4-4-2 when defending, out of possession.

pele-action-against-juventus-1959-copy.j

Making up the tactic's spear-head (ponta de lança) was the visionary Pele, greatest footballer ever. Pele, while playing as the #10 second striker, caused havoc through his intelligent movement with and without the ball. It was his timely pass to Carlos Alberto that was the final key to unlocking the defence. The other striker, #9, didn't play so much as an all-out attacking striker, as another supporting spear-head role similar to Pele's. This is a bit unusual to how Brazil would usually set up their 4-2-4. But Tostao was perfect for this role since he also played as a classic #10 playmaker for his club. Much like Pele he was a versatile attacker capable of playing all across the final third. So there you had it, the five traditional #10 playmakers playing on the same team, at the same time. Gerson, Rivelino, Jairzinho, Tostao and Pele.

If you would like to read up more about ponta de lança, the most fascinating role in Brazilian football, then please check out this great blog post:

Too Many Playmakers Dilemma

Starting my third season with Benfica, I am facing two distinct problems. And they are something that every FM manager will face at some point. That is breaking down tough defences while trying to fit all your best players into the First Team XI. Much like Zagallo's Brazil, I don't know what to do with all my forwards who also happen to be great playmakers. The obvious solution might be simply not to play all of them at the same time. Yet we risk losing a lot of our unpredictability and attacking flair as a result. As well as missing out on the development of some of Benfica's rising prospects. But like with 1970 Brazil, maybe somehow all of 2021 Benfica's creativity could be channeled into a single tactic. To summarize my problems (and essentially objectives for this season):

  1. Firstly, I'm not sure whether it's the nature of Portuguese League or my reputation, but I'm facing many parked buses. That is specifically, domestic teams which use 2 DMs and sometimes 3 CBs against us. It has gotten to the point where it cost me two League titles in a row. Coming in second to Porto was especially painful last season because we did so great in continental competition, winning Europa League for the first time in club's history. The team has been very solid defensively (only concededing 14 times!) but just couldn't score enough goals. When you get 7 draws in one season, you might as well kiss the title goodbye.
  2. My second problem is sort of two problems in one. As our youth team matures we are facing the problem of having too many players with a similar skillset (playmaking). Also there is the added issues of trying to fit a great young traditional striker star into a tactic that seemingly has no place for his role. Some might say that this is not a problem at all. Just loan him out until your formation can accommodate him! Well, here is my dilemma. I don't believe in loaning young developing stars out of the club.

The Benefit of Youth

4.png

In fact, I try to never loan out my young prospects. My one simple rule of thumb is the following. If a youngster is not good enough to even sub during a Cup game, then they will never make it. From day one, you need to have faith in your future First Teamer. If you believe he could one day be in your starting eleven, then you should nurture him in your reserves at least. Or even better, use him as a regular first team substitute. Remember that 20 minutes in a match will do more for his development than 90 minutes on the loan bench. This is why for this piece I decided to showcase a club with one of the best football academies. Welcome to Benfica and its Golden Generation of playmakers in FM20!

When it comes to youth development, it is almost always better choice to keep the youngsters you want to retain, close to your club. If I loan them out it is usually because I don't intend to keep them. That is because they don't possess enough potential for our First Team or their roles will never fit our style of football. For instance, a mentally-weak but technically-strong inside forward can improve his mentals with age, becoming a very well-rounded Total Footballer. On the other hand a selfish winger who cannot dribble or finish will be harder to retrain and even harder to justify his continued presence on the team. But a potentially world-class striker is much more difficult to let go.

So the following are the young players that I want to build my team around. Its an interesting group made up of very creative technical players with one pure striker thrown in the mix.

81CA82F8AA78240007FA81CA5E6C73BFE240AE92 Tiago Dantas - unquestionably most talented of the group. Captain material
B38C1874E8F32E800A8FA950BF1DAD6DA462DC08 Goncalo Ramos - is turning into a very creative complete forward
4528BF1F3C72755EF18C0C5055E450AC6DBD3E11 Chiquinho - the older role model to the kids
4638A71C4755561A0343BFDEE35B51810903B864 And finally Diogo Nascimento - the younger understudy to Dantas

As you can see I probably have more creativity in my midfield than most teams have in their whole 25+ player roster. It is both a blessing and a curse when it comes to First Team selection. To add to my troubles I also have a playmaker among my centrebacks.

87DEAB4BF211BCE965C98B98428A5EEE1A285481

Ferro is probably the most creative defender I have even seen in any of my FM20 saves. But over the last couple of months I have been getting incessant offers from most big clubs. Some going as high 100 million! Luckily for us he is our current vice-captain and exceedingly loyal.

Finally here is my young striker who I think has world-class potential. Definitely not as creative as the other bunch, but I simply cannot ignore his potential. And I am not one to believe that pure strikers have no place in a Total Football tactic.

B540D38E762E6FEF3DEA6F5C931C711434B439B4 Joao Resende - a world-class striker in the making? Or future Romario

Total Football and Pure Strikers

It is between Romário and Van Basten.

Diego Maradona
This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is 0_Soccer-UEFA-Champions-League-Group-A-Manchester-United-v-Barcelona-Old-Trafford.jpg Romario - a key part in Cruyff's Total Football "Dream Team" at Barcelona

Because even within a Total Football tactic, there can always be a benefit in having an opportunistic poacher. Just look how Johann Cruyff managed to fit Romario, one of the greatest strikers of all time, into his 3-4-3. Some might even argue that Cruyff moved away from his favourite 4-3-3 formation to an innovative for its time 3-4-3 at Barca, in order to accommodate pure strikers like Romario. Mr.Total Football himself called Romario "genius of the goal area" and the probably the best player he ever coached.

Romario wasn't known as a teamplayer or having top workrate. He might have spend a little over a year at Barcelona yet enjoyed the best season of his career there as he formed a deadly striker partnership with Hristo Stoichov. During this time, Romario scored 30 La Liga goals. In 1993/94, this ended his best ever record in a single domestic league. He also played in the Champions League final before winning 1994 World Cup with Brazil.

So hopefully Resende can become Benfica's Romario. Only time could tell.

The Lesson of History

And speaking of Brazil. Let us go back to Mexico to that scorching summer of 1970.

This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is 1451970.jpg

On paper Brazil's set-up could have be described as a rather traditional 4-2-4, a mainstay of Brazilian tactics for over 30 years. In practice however Zagallo's tactic was a combination 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1 or even 4-3-3 at times. Which was rather nontraditional at the time. I suspect that only Brazil could pull off such free-roaming style at the time. A perfect demonstration of the freedom of Brazilian Jogo Bonito.

Jogo Bonito was also a perfect example of how player roles can sometimes define the formation. In fact the whole tactic can be coded through roles with minimal to none team instructions. So it puzzles me why some FM players spend a lot of time discussing why certain shape is superior to another. But then when it comes to assigning the roles, people tend to do it willy-nilly without much thought on how they will affect other roles or the attacking shape of the formation. I blame the game design in this to some extent. Mainly because those full green circles on the tactical creator screen can be very misleading. And it leads to things like the following tactic.

0CC0169C8DAA547ACA17C516D23D1DAB0CE853BB WARNING! NOT A REAL TACTIC. Just a collection of full green circles. Looks pretty though.

Such tactic might look very nice in the tactical creator, especially if you are little bit OCD like me. In practice however, it could be the worst tactic ever with the roles that don't work together or suit the style. The only thing that the green circle tells you is how closely the player's attributes fit with the selected role. And sometimes it might not even include all the important attributes for that role. Thus it is always better to look at the player and judge yourself his suitability for a particular role.

1970s Brazil could be used as a case study of how the players themselves with all their unique instructions and traits make the formation into exactly what it is. And for that reason, Brazil's famous 4-2-4 was not a simple formation. It was a collection of some of the best footballers in the world at the time, and specifically five playmakers. All playing in a specific way to compliment each other. And how could it look in FM20 you might ask? Maybe something like this.

B9B8BD1601FFBAE6BE08D2C769DD56039497AB3E

My tactic is actually a mirror image of how I think Brazil played in 1970. This is done to fit the exacgt footedness and traits of my players. So to do an accurate representation of that Brazilian team, just imagine inverting everything left to right. Because the aggressove Complete Wingback Carlos Alberto, would be on the right, and not left. Now if you wish to try this formation out for yourself, be my guest and download it in the link below.

Tactic Download: https://ufile.io/e3y4tdat

I am currently testing it with Benfica and the results look rather promising.

2BE16390189F82B2AB18A7B96E95B078342E1721

It's still early in season, but winning two games with scorelines of 4-0 is longway from last season's boring 1-1 and 0-0 draws. Although, other than Braga and Dynamo Kiev we have not faced that much strong competition. And Liverpool game was sadly one-sided, after one my players got send to the showers early in the 20th minute. So the real test of tactic's mettle will come at Stadio San Paolo against Napoli. But that is a story for another day! For now, thank you for reading

 

 

Wonderfully written. Very close to how I would have gone about replicating it. Have you though about giving the BPD the dribble more instruction? Piazza was very comfortable carrying the ball and would at times push up with the ball at his feet, especially if he was not under preassure.

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8 minutes ago, TheEasternWind said:

Wonderfully written. Very close to how I would have gone about replicating it. Have you though about giving the BPD the dribble more instruction? Piazza was very comfortable carrying the ball and would at times push up with the ball at his feet, especially if he was not under preassure.

Thanks mate! And very good suggestion about BPD. I would think that Ferro would be more than up for it even if he is not a converted midfielder like Piazza was.

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Brilliant post!! Excited to see how the Napoli game turns out. 

 

Not really on topic but how good is Resende?? He plays for Hertha Berlin in my save and has fired them to the top of the league. 27 goals in 24 games. Madness. 

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5 hours ago, Irn Rvd said:

Brilliant post!! Excited to see how the Napoli game turns out. 

 

Not really on topic but how good is Resende?? He plays for Hertha Berlin in my save and has fired them to the top of the league. 27 goals in 24 games. Madness. 

Yeah what a player. He has all the right attributes to be a lean mean goal-machine. He scored something like 30 goals in Benfica B team last season. Reason why he caught my eye. Funny enough, I didn't even know that I had this player in my team. The beautiful thing about Benfica is that you have so many potential wonderkids in your academy that you will have a hard time keeping track of them all. 

 

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2 hours ago, skyline72 said:

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! tried to replicate the Pele role in his Benfica thread.

Ponta De Lunca.

Nice! Will have to take a look at it. Which role did @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! use? I always saw Pele as the ultimate shadow striker, but maybe with some traits to make him roam around even more and with more license to create. Ponta de lanca, literally "Spearhead". That term always makes me think of Pele. What a great name for a football role 

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13 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Nice! Will have to take a look at it. Which role did @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! use? I always saw Pele as the ultimate shadow striker, but maybe with some traits to make him roam around even more and with more license to create. Ponta de lanca, literally "Spearhead". That term always makes me think of Pele. What a great name for a football role 

I don't have much to add, besides the fact that I love that tactic you created, and that in Portugal a "Ponta de Lança" is actually and Advanced Forward, the most advanced player on the field, and not the second striker or the 9.5 that Pelé seemed to be :P

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Just had this performance in the league. 

B6296FDBD19F720660A4D9C32BD6CCAF96EFD5E7 (1600×900)

 

But what's more significant, we went into the game, facing this type of formation from Moreirense. I guess they threw in the towel early and just wanted to draw this one. Luckily my guys had a different idea.

40CAC5011BEED3C15C7FC2B3D57B6691665E16D4 (1600×900)

Will see if I can upload one or two nice goals from this one later tonight. 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, josel15 said:

I don't have much to add, besides the fact that I love that tactic you created, and that in Portugal a "Ponta de Lança" is actually and Advanced Forward, the most advanced player on the field, and not the second striker or the 9.5 that Pelé seemed to be :P

Thats interesting! Thanks for the clarification. I remember reading about Brazil 1970 playing with two "Ponta de Lancas". I assumed it was meant they played with two False9 or Shadow Striker type players. Especially seeing how Pele and Tostao were both basically playing as withdrawn supporting strikers. Pele really redefined that role, playing abit like Messi in his youth, creating and scoring and generally acting as both the Spearhead striker and the #10 creator. 

Edited by crusadertsar
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5 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Thats interesting! Thanks for the clarification. I remember reading about Brazil 1970 playing with two "Ponta de Lancas". I assumed it was meant they played with two False9 or Shadow Striker type players. Especially seeing how both Pele  Tostao were both basically playing as withdrawn supporting strikers. Pele really redefined that role, playing abit like Messi in his youth, creating and scoring and generally acting as both the Spearhead striker and the #10 creator. 

Yes. At least here in Portugal, Eusébio and Pelé are seen as playing in the same position of a 4-2-4 (although Benfica and Portugal one were with two pure wingers in Simões and José Augusto), a kind of a second striker that linked midfield and attack but scored a lot of goals. The difference besides the wingers is that Benfica and Portugal had José Águas who was somewhat of a target man, while not being that tall!

More recently, and funnily enough, in Benfica, there was this magician called Jonas that could play alone in a 4-3-3 or as a second striker in a 4-4-2 and he scored a lot of goals, but he played behind Mitroglou, Jimenez or Lima in his best years and he was that linkup again and distributed well, but was just absurdly clinical!

Edited by josel15
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3 minutes ago, josel15 said:

Yes. At least here in Portugal, Eusébio and Pelé are seen as playing in the same position of a 4-2-4 (although Benfica and Portugal one were with two pure wingers in Simões and José Augusto), a kind of a second striker that linked midfield and attack but scored a lot of goals. The difference besides the wingers is that Benfica and Portugal had José Águas who was somewhat of a target man, while not being that tall!

More recently, and funnily enough, in Benfica, there was this magician called Jonas that could play alone in a 4-3-3 or as a second striker in a 4-4-2 and he scored a lot of goals, but he played behind Mitroglou, Jimenez or Lima in his best years and he was that linkup again and distributed well, but was just absurdly clinical!

Yeah Jonas was simply sublime! He really should have won the Golden Boot two years ago, not Messi. It's too bad that Portuguese League is weighed differently from the Top Five.

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8 hours ago, TheEasternWind said:

A second Idea for Rivellino has crossed my mind. A hardworking player playing as a trequartista in the AMCL position and told to stay wider.

Sorry missed this comment. That's actually very interesting. With the right kind of player it could work very well. And Trequartistas tend to come quite deep too. Never really tried a truly hard working player there.

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9 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Nice! Will have to take a look at it. Which role did @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! use? I always saw Pele as the ultimate shadow striker, but maybe with some traits to make him roam around even more and with more license to create. Ponta de lanca, literally "Spearhead". That term always makes me think of Pele. What a great name for a football role 

He used the AM(s) with PIs.

Of course, the guy playing there? Joao Felix. :brock:

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12 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Just had this performance in the league. 

B6296FDBD19F720660A4D9C32BD6CCAF96EFD5E7 (1600×900)

 

But what's more significant, we went into the game, facing this type of formation from Moreirense. I guess they threw in the towel early and just wanted to draw this one. Luckily my guys had a different idea.

40CAC5011BEED3C15C7FC2B3D57B6691665E16D4 (1600×900)

Will see if I can upload one or two nice goals from this one later tonight. 

oh my word!! Tremendous result since they completely parked the bus. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Irn Rvd said:

oh my word!! Tremendous result since they completely parked the bus. 

Yeah i was pleasantly surprised by how my team controlled the match (we even ended up having 61% Possession!) despite the very negative tactic employed by the opposition.

The 3 CBs and 2 DMs defensive formations have been my personal boogeyman in Portuguese League (and in FM20 in general). As people (especially moderators :p) probably noticed by now as I had a few embarrassing ranting outbursts about this :ackter:

 

But there's still hope I guess. I just needed to start thinking outside the box and create a tactic that's a little different from my usual Tiki Taka recreations.

Thanks to @Experienced Defender and @HUNT3R for putting me back on the right path :brock:

Edited by crusadertsar
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Posted (edited)

Also for that last 5-0 match, I actually made a few changes. I switched mezzala to attack and made my right fullback more conservative (fullback on support, although could probably use wingback defend too). And more importantly I switched passing to Direct while adding Work Into The Box and changing tempo to Low. Oh and set width to Wide. That's it.

I was also lucky that Jose Juan Macias had a tremendous game (getting PoM). What a great acquisition he turned out to be! I will also have to post his attributes later.

Edited by crusadertsar
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3 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Also for that last 5-0 match, I actually made a few changes. I switched mezzala to attack and made my right fullback more conservative (fullback on support, although could probably use wingback defend too). And more importantly I switched passing to Direct while adding Work Into The Box and changing tempo to Low. That's it.

I was also lucky that Jose Juan Macias has a tremendous game. What a great acquisition he turned out to be! I will also have to post his attributes later.

Do you have some gif/video to show? :)

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2 minutes ago, skyline72 said:

Do you have some gif/video to show? :)

Still need to upload it to YouTube. Was absolutely exhausted last night so went to bed early. Will definitely try to do it tonight after work

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Ah OK. That makes a lot of sense. Lower tempo + more direct passing seems to be the bus breaker doesn't it?

 

Jose Juan Macias how much you pay?

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Irn Rvd said:

Ah OK. That makes a lot of sense. Lower tempo + more direct passing seems to be the bus breaker doesn't it?

 

Jose Juan Macias how much you pay?

I'm not 100% sure but I think i triggered his release clause at around 20 mil. So far he had a slow start due to recovery from injury but the last couple of games his impact on games went up by a lot. Even when he does not score he tends to occupy opposition enough on the left flank for my striker to take advantage centrally ( so far helped Ramos score 5 goals). Jose seems like a second coming of Chicharito except much more complete team player which suits my system just fine. Hands down the best striker in Portuguese League right now. Him and Ramos are forming a great partnership for the future.

This also ties into my point about importance of having a great offensive striker in a Possession tactic. You cannot just simply rely on a supporting central striker to break these parked buses down. While Resende is maturing, Macias will be my Romario.

Edited by crusadertsar
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Posted (edited)

And yes I certainly hope that this is the bus breaking formula. Seems to make sense. Will continue testing it against other defensive teams and report back here.

Edited by crusadertsar
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According to Gerson, Brazil in 1970 was more like this:

ttbrasil1970.jpg?resize=800,579

I am Brazilian and I was able to translate. The interviewer asks about the 4-2-4 of 1970, and he (Gerson) corrects it saying that Brazil played in a 4-3-3.

Another thing he mentions is Everaldo's low offensive quality. There was a joke among the players themselves about this, they said that Everaldo couldn't get to the attack.

Edited by taciotenorio8
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Posted (edited)

So as promised this is the clip of one of the goals. 

Who said that through balls were not possible on FM20? The architect of that one was amazing Thiago Dantas. And the scorer?

José Juan Macías

jose-juan-macias-cd-guadalajara-1593421608-42381.thumb.jpg.561d0642b3a61e2e1d9c4457308622dc.jpg

My new Mexican goldenboy and the current wearer of Num 14 shirt (I give that number to the best player on each team I manage).

And these are his attributes. A truly tremendous player and my current, recommended "best striker for the money" to get on FM20. Sort of like Jovic of FM19 but better. And I expect he will get even better in FM21. The new Fierro?

7F8679AC946BA50309B2D73E0B7400ECE372020F (1600×900)

 

Edited by crusadertsar
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3 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

I was not alive in the 1970s so cannot claim to be much of an expert, but the following might help you :thup:


http://otaviopinto.com/index.php/2016/07/14/pele-10-formation/


https://spielverlagerung.de/2011/11/15/pele-der-mann-der-den-fusball-schuf/
 

Thanks mate! Read one of those already but will check out the other one :thup:

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17 hours ago, taciotenorio8 said:

 

 

 

Thought I'd try to roughly translate some of the interesting parts of this at least, as I don't expect many people here speak portuguese. It's hard because Gerson doesn't name the positions so I might even get some bits wrong (he says a lot of 'here' or 'there' referring to positions as if we could see where he was pointing or read his mind lol)

Gerson is very adamant that Rivelino played in the midfield 3 though. He says Zagallo told Rivelino the following: "I don't want you in the wings, I have exceptional wingers, Paulo Cézar Caju, Edu..  I don't want you here, ok? I want you here (midfield, I assume), specially attacking the spaces at the edge of the area, so you can shoot. Because the left wing is occupied by Tostão, When Tostão is there, you attack the channels, when Tostão drifts inside, then yes, you can go past him on the left"

He then says this movement on the left with Tostão and Rivelino was very important because Everaldo had no quality to attack, he didn't go forward and then the left flank was empty. He almost mocks Everaldo, he says something like: if Everaldo hit the halfway line, I told him to stop there and give me the ball. He says Everaldo himself said: "I'm not going up there, I'm not as good as anyone there".

The funniest part of the interview though is when he says: "To me, a long through ball is an orgasm, I'd much rather give an assist than score a goal"

Despite being brazilian I have never watched the games of the 70 team, so I'm not claiming to be an expert here, anything I'd say would be based on something someone else wrote or said. That said, based purely on the way Gerson sees the team I'd set up with Tostão on the left as an IF, not sure on duty, and then Rivelino as a Mez-At, with Everaldo as a WB-De. Pelé would then be a Trequartista (not sure if on the AM strata or as a striker). Not sure about what role Jairzinho would have on the right, as Gerson doesn't really talk about the right side, other than saying Carlos Alberto basically played as the winger there.

 

Edit: to me the most interesting part of it all is how Zagallo set the team up as a 4-3-3, the players saw it as a 4-3-3, but the way they moved and interacted in the pitch made the whole world see it as a 4-2-4, as that is how every article I've seen about that squad puts the lineup.

Edited by dekzeh
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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, dekzeh said:

 

Thought I'd try to roughly translate some of the interesting parts of this at least, as I don't expect many people here speak portuguese. It's hard because Gerson doesn't name the positions so I might even get some bits wrong (he says a lot of 'here' or 'there' referring to positions as if we could see where he was pointing or read his mind lol)

Gerson is very adamant that Rivelino played in the midfield 3 though. He says Zagallo told Rivelino the following: "I don't you in the wings, I have exceptional wingers, Paulo Cézar Caju, Edu..  I don't want you here, ok? I want you here (midfield, I assume), specially attacking the spaces at the edge of the area, so you can shoot. Because the left wing is occupied by Tostão, When Tostão is there, you attack the channels, when Tostão drifts inside, then yes, you can go past him on the left"

He then says this movement on the left with Tostão and Rivelino was very important because Everaldo had no quality to attack, he didn't go forward and then the left flank was empty. He almost mocks Everaldo, he says something like: if Everaldo hit the halfway line, I told him to stop there and give me the ball. He says Everaldo himself said: "I'm not going up there, I'm not as good as anyone there".

The funniest part of the interview though is when he says: "To me, a long through ball is an orgasm, I'd much rather give an assist than score a goal"

Despite being brazilian I have never watched the games of the 70 team, so I'm not claiming to be an expert here, anything I'd say would be based on something someone else wrote or said. That said, based purely on the way Gerson sees the team I'd set up with Tostão on the left as an IF, not sure on duty, and then Rivelino as a Mez-At, with Everaldo as a WB-De. Pelé would then be a Trequartista (not sure if on the AM strata or as a striker). Not sure about what role Jairzinho would have on the right, as Gerson doesn't really talk about the right side, other than saying Carlos Alberto basically played as the winger there.

 

Edit: to me the most interesting part of it all is how Zagallo set the team up as a 4-3-3, the players saw it as a 4-3-3, but the way they moved and interacted in the pitch made the whole world see it as a 4-2-4, as that is how every article I've seen about that squad puts the lineup.

Very interesting! Got me wondering. I don't like messing with a tactic that's already working well but I'm curious if this wouldn't make it even better. My Rivellino was already a mezzala but maybe shifting my central striker more towards the side of Rivellino (with added PI to move right) will better recreate the Tostao and Rivellino partnership. And I already switched my Everaldo (in my tactic it's my right wingback) to a more conservative role like FB (S) or Wingback on Defend. The goal is to create as much movement as possible to free up space for my three main runners, left CWB (Carlos Alberto), Left Inside Forward (Jairzinho) and the Shadow Striker (Pele). So looking forward to trying out these slight modifications this weekend. It might even resemble 4-3-3 more during attack.

What do you guys think? 

 

Edited by crusadertsar
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Lovely write up @crusadertsar, I've always loved Brazilian football and I have to admit I enjoy an asymmetric formation too and this one looks a lot of fun.  I would be really interested to know how you would adapt the system to counter specific styles.  For example Klopp's Liverpool?  They tend to be my bogey team in FM20 so it would be very interesting to see :-)

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On 19/08/2020 at 10:14, crusadertsar said:
B9B8BD1601FFBAE6BE08D2C769DD56039497AB3E

My tactic is actually a mirror image of how I think Brazil played in 1970. This is done to fit the exacgt footedness and traits of my players. So to do an accurate representation of that Brazilian team, just imagine inverting everything left to right. Because the aggressove Complete Wingback Carlos Alberto, would be on the right, and not left. Now if you wish to try this formation out for yourself, be my guest and download it in the link below.

@crusadertsar How is your team's avg position w/o the ball? Does it look to be more like 4-4-2 or some kinda 4-5-1/4-3-3 in defending? The front 6 reminds me of (in recent years) of the Man U tactical setup you highlighted in your Sir Alex Strikerless Masterclass article (attached snap below) less than 3 months ago...just that position areas are different obviously.  That Rivelino role on your setup reminiscent of KDB the past 2-3 years with City or even Haidara with Salzburg during the Rose tenure. 

Screen Shot 2020-08-24 at 12.15.03 PM.png

Edited by Vico Vito Pep
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Vico Vito Pep said:

@crusadertsar How is your team's avg position w/o the ball? Does it look to be more like 4-4-2 or some kinda 4-5-1/4-3-3 in defending? The front 6 reminds me of (in recent years) of the Man U tactical setup you highlighted in your Sir Alex Strikerless Masterclass article (attached snap below) less than 3 months ago...just that position areas are different obviously.  That Rivelino role on your setup reminiscent of KDB the past 2-3 years with City or even Haidara with Salzburg during the Rose tenure. 

Screen Shot 2020-08-24 at 12.15.03 PM.png

Its actually alot like how this system looks when without the ball. A sort of 4-3-3.  Staying with the Man United analogy, I actually saw a bit of Rivelino in how Giggs played. Being a very creative wide midfielder who could also dribble Giggs tended to started much closer to the centre midfield towards the end of his career. He almost played like a third central midfielder alongside Carrick and Scholes. But then at times he would dribble to the flank to help overload that side and free up more space for Ronaldo to make his diagonal run on the right, a bit like Jairzinho. 

AB41DE5D2497F79B2C99D26AED2BD9F8FB0CE081

Like you see above. I am still trying to find a way for my shadow striker to go more forward. It could be that I just need a better player with more aggressive traits for this role. Rafa is great but he is more of a FalseNine type. 

Edited by crusadertsar
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21 hours ago, WhyMe said:

Lovely write up @crusadertsar, I've always loved Brazilian football and I have to admit I enjoy an asymmetric formation too and this one looks a lot of fun.  I would be really interested to know how you would adapt the system to counter specific styles.  For example Klopp's Liverpool?  They tend to be my bogey team in FM20 so it would be very interesting to see :-)

Thanks! Liverpool is my boogeyman team too. In fact, lost to then pretty badly this season. It wasn't a good test of the tactic as we one of my players was send off so they scored most of their goals while we were shorthanded.

But theoretically I think to counter their aggressive press you would need to go more direct and try to hit them on the wings. So aborb more pressure in midfield where they will hit you hardest and then overload them with your wingers and wingbacks. Me thinks going with with 4-5-1 type of formation would work in this case. I could be wrong about this as I'm not a reactive manager. I try to never change my formation for any formation. I always play with my best plan and let the opposition do the chasing.

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