Replicating Complex Styles Of Play; How Do You Do This? Particularly Thinking Of Gasperini And Flick Recreations

[FMunderachiever]

Hello Everyone

Having been watching a lot of footy this season on tv through lack of being able to get out and play sports as much and playing a lot of football manager too, ive been playing as a number of clubs and achieving some good success, so happy with that.

It seems like it might be nice to try and replicate a real life tactic. Weve got some threads started here about Gasperini's football, and this season we have seen the rise of Bayern Munich into an absolutely world class side under Hansi Flick.

I had noticed the AI seems to really struggle to manage Bayern successfully, so a replica Flick tactic might be fun to build.

 

The problem as i see it is, where to you even begin?

 

The players on the field as so fluid in their interaction with each other, ive no idea how you pin them down to a role at all. You look at the games vs Chelsea and Barcelona, both of which were comfortable wins. I see the team playing very well, but to highlight a couple of players in particular in Kimmich and Goretzka... they are basically just doing EVERYTHING.

 

They are creating, they are getting forward, they are dropping deep, they are getting into the box.... theyre all over the place (in a good way).

You look at the interaction of roles amongst the front four players too, even with the midfielders behind them, its so fluid players are popping up all over the place.

 

You could definitely see there are team instructions going on. You can see Bayern's tempo is high, a left sided overlap with Alfonso Davies, you can see that they use a counter press, and high lines. Thats fine.

 

But when you get into the nitty gritty of player roles, the pressing traps they set for the opposition, the fluidity of movement and interaction of roles......where do you even begin with such complicated tactics?

 

I think what further muddies the waters with this is, this fluidity of style and interaction of roles as you see it might not work in the game like it does in real life, or it contradicts typically accepted FM wisdom, like if you were going to have the double pivot midfield in a 4-2-3-1, the two forming the pivot shouldnt roam.

 

But they do...... I watched them roaming constantly on my TV.

 

So just looking for thoughts on this really and how you can recreate the complex systems, Guardiola with Man City, Gasperini, Flick etc, and if it was to be a Flick recreation, what kind of roles would you personally be looking at?

 

Thanks Everyone

 

 

[Enzo_Francescoli]

I'm not sure if this is a general question about tactics replication or specifically about Bayern.

In general, the first rule of tactics replications is understanding that it's not possible to make the game do exaxtly what you see on TV.

The second rule of tactics replications is understanding that it's not possible to make the game do exactly what you see on TV.

That said, you can get relatively close, perhaps with a few playing styles more than others. In order to do that, watch games, read some analysis, play the game and understand what roles, duties, PI's and traits do. Understand how team fluidity (basically, duty distribution) does. The example you've given about Bayern's pivots is a good one. It would be very risky to place them at CM, but you have more leeway if you play them at DM, like Bayern do, by the way.

Attacking play is almost always easier to replicate, because the game is not yet too advanced when it comes to different pressing styles. Pressing triggers are nonexistent, except for the LOE. In-game pressing is almost exclusively ball-oriented, whereas in real life football, there are many more alternatives. I've tried to replicate Simeone's wide press for example, but it's not yet possible, even with using a bunch of PI's and OI's.

Flick's Bayern inspired me too, I'm testing a tactic based on what they do. Like I said, however, a perfect replication, especially their press, can't be done.

[_mxrky]

Playing Gasperini tactic would not be successful in fm imo. He plays with a high pressing+ tight marking irl, which is clearly not suitable on football manager and is easily exploitable. To be fair it is quite exploitable irl as well.

[FMunderachiever]

1 hour ago, _mxrky said:

Playing Gasperini tactic would not be successful in fm imo. He plays with a high pressing+ tight marking irl, which is clearly not suitable on football manager and is easily exploitable. To be fair it is quite exploitable irl as well.

The VAST majority of successful FM tactics rely on defending in a way so aggressive, it would be highly unusual in real life.

 

[GianniM]

I was looking for a more 'exciting' play when I stumbled upon the limits of my '4-1-4-1 DM Wide' formation with teams parking the bus, so I went back to a 4-2-3-1 with a lot of movement and it's actually quite fluid. 

                  DLFs

      IFs        SSa        APs

            REGs     DMd

FBs    CBd      BPDd     WBa

 

The DLF has comes deep to get ball and dribbles through center 

The IF also has comes deep

The SS of course drives forward, but is a playmaker naturally (Alena) so has a creative side as well, and I have him to roam

The AP of course roames as well and has dribble more PI. 

When the AP moves inside, the WB will go past him on the flank. Sometimes he's going all the way to the backline into the box to provide a cutback. He has the PPM to get into opposition area too. 

The regista comes in just before the box for a creative pass or a long shot. But yeah, he's coupled to a simple DM. 

The only downside is I have to play my left FB in a more conservative role while he has the capabilities to contribute more offensively. You can't have the fullbacks alternating in their forward runs. 

 

So the bottom line is I think to have roles that actively drop deeper or get further forward, and have PPMs to further exploit that. 

Edited August 20, 2020 by GianniM

[themadsheep2001]

On 18/08/2020 at 00:59, FMunderachiever said:

The VAST majority of successful FM tactics rely on defending in a way so aggressive, it would be highly unusual in real life.

 

Do they? I havent used anything stronger than a split press throughout FM20, used low and medium presses too

[themadsheep2001]

might as well get on the phone to RB Leipzig

[skyline72]

5 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

might as well get on the phone to RB Leipzig

Im on the phone with Gasperini and Hans-Dieter Flick. 

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, skyline72 said:

Im on the phone with Gasperini and Hans-Dieter Flick. 

Gasperini is a maniac . Funnily enough for all the danger going forwards, it is flawed in defence, and as soon as they tire

[skyline72]

14 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Gasperini is a maniac . Funnily enough for all the danger going forwards, it is flawed in defence, and as soon as they tire

Yea, I do suspect that. 

He kept insisting that attack is the best form of defence. 

[FMunderachiever]

2 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Gasperini is a maniac . Funnily enough for all the danger going forwards, it is flawed in defence, and as soon as they tire

Who cares. They overachieve and are entertaining.

I just want to have fun with the game and win high scoring matches.

The point of the thread was though that real life tactics are more complex than can be put into the game I think. So when selecting roles and instructions for players, for complicated tactics i dont know where you begin to be honest

[themadsheep2001]

3 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

Who cares. They overachieve and are entertaining.

I just want to have fun with the game and win high scoring matches.

The point of the thread was though that real life tactics are more complex than can be put into the game I think. So when selecting roles and instructions for players, for complicated tactics i dont know where you begin to be honest

Not necessarily. For example Flick we did a Bayern replication led by @Rashidi which I still play with now. There's some really good Atalanta replications going on, but I don't think the creators post here.

FM isn't as detailed as football, but it doesn't mean you cant replicate aspects real life

[lfds89]

There are some concepts that are very difficult/impossible to replicate on FM20 (or any other, for that matter).

- Conte's 2 ST movement: one comes deep, the other exploits depth - both do this movement;

- Also with 2 ST: one presses the CBs, the other man marks the DM, rotating between them as the ball moves from one side to the other;

- Cut passing lanes: for instance what Salah and Mane do. They aren't man marking the WBs and they are not pressing the CBs they are halfway;

- Klopps' "Cage" and other Pressing Triggers: Press on bad touch, press when ball is in the air, press when ball gets to their CMs/wings, press on back pass;

- Flick's 4 man defense: if you watch carefully, Bayern always has the first line of 4. For instance, against Lyon, Kimmich pressed Cornet very wide and deep, so Boateng moved to RB, Martinez dropped to RCB;

- Position Cover, also with Flick's Bayern: Perisic drops to LB when Davies is to far up (when Bayern doesn't have the ball);

- Sérgio Conceição's 2 ST transition: when Porto doesn't have the ball he keeps one ST wide on the side of the ball to exploit the opposition WB's space and make one CB have to opt between leaving that ST alone or open up a big space between both CBs;

- Lage's trigger for forward runs: On his Benfica's first season, when someone (mainly Felix) had the ball just in front of the area, W and ST would make a forward run;

-Guardiola's aimed dribble: he said on an interview he wanted Messi and Iniesta to attack the CBs so they had to move out of position and opened the most important space;

- And I would say the most intricate one is Flick's and some others space exploration: you see Thiago pretty much holding his position, but if he sees space he can dribble into, he will dribble and Goretzka will cover for him. So he's kind of a DLP-D, and also a RPM-S and Goretzka will move from BBM-S to A-D or DM-D ; Alaba plays CB but also roams further and is a playmaker. Kimmich plays CWB, IWB, and sometimes is the playmaker when he's inside and Thiago is marked. IFs will stay wide if they have space on the wing. So it has much more to do with spaces to explore than positions/roles/duties.

There are many more, these are just some I could remember.

Oh and Set-Pieces... (only one player can attack one post ? and can't set initial positions ? )

 

edit: btw, not complaining; just pointing out

Edited August 22, 2020 by lfds89

[FMunderachiever]

4 hours ago, lfds89 said:

There are some concepts that are very difficult/impossible to replicate on FM20 (or any other, for that matter).

- Conte's 2 ST movement: one comes deep, the other exploits depth - both do this movement;

- Also with 2 ST: one presses the CBs, the other man marks the DM, rotating between them as the ball moves from one side to the other;

- Cut passing lanes: for instance what Salah and Mane do. They aren't man marking the WBs and they are not pressing the CBs they are halfway;

- Klopps' "Cage" and other Pressing Triggers: Press on bad touch, press when ball is in the air, press when ball gets to their CMs/wings, press on back pass;

- Flick's 4 man defense: if you watch carefully, Bayern always has the first line of 4. For instance, against Lyon, Kimmich pressed Cornet very wide and deep, so Boateng moved to RB, Martinez dropped to RCB;

- Position Cover, also with Flick's Bayern: Perisic drops to LB when Davies is to far up (when Bayern doesn't have the ball);

- Sérgio Conceição's 2 ST transition: when Porto doesn't have the ball he keeps one ST wide on the side of the ball to exploit the opposition WB's space and make one CB have to opt between leaving that ST alone or open up a big space between both CBs;

- Lage's trigger for forward runs: On his Benfica's first season, when someone (mainly Felix) had the ball just in front of the area, W and ST would make a forward run;

-Guardiola's aimed dribble: he said on an interview he wanted Messi and Iniesta to attack the CBs so they had to move out of position and opened the most important space;

- And I would say the most intricate one is Flick's and some others space exploration: you see Thiago pretty much holding his position, but if he sees space he can dribble into, he will dribble and Goretzka will cover for him. So he's kind of a DLP-D, and also a RPM-S and Goretzka will move from BBM-S to A-D or DM-D ; Alaba plays CB but also roams further and is a playmaker. Kimmich plays CWB, IWB, and sometimes is the playmaker when he's inside and Thiago is marked. IFs will stay wide if they have space on the wing. So it has much more to do with spaces to explore than positions/roles/duties.

There are many more, these are just some I could remember.

Oh and Set-Pieces... (only one player can attack one post ? and can't set initial positions ? )

 

edit: btw, not complaining; just pointing out

This is what im elluding to.

I watch football nowadays, and when im watching, it seems too complicated to put into the game. Youd need tons of instructions.

Klopp is very clever with pressing triggers. Things like waiting for the bad touch, or pressing when the person receiving the ball has the wrong body shape, and then Liverpool are on him. They tend to funnel him wide where the touchline acts as a defender but ONLY on the basis of a trigger.

Likewise with Bayern.....the front four play four different roles all at the same time. Muller is an advanced forward when Lewa plays DLF. Then Muller plays advanced playmaker when Gnabry cuts in as advanced forward. But then Perisic is a forward at times. Its too fluid to pin down to one role

I was hoping i would get some debate like yours, its interesting

[SleepyJoe]

Generally you have to understand that real life football is way more micro-managed than you can even believe if you only watch on TV. Even on U16 of pro teams players will be teached exact angles on how to run to press, exact triggers when to press etc. etc., stuff we'll probably not have in FM40.

[scrubz]

16 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Not necessarily. For example Flick we did a Bayern replication led by @Rashidi which I still play with now.

@themadsheep2001Is it possible that you could show your Bayern replication?

[themadsheep2001]

6 minutes ago, scrubz said:

@themadsheep2001Is it possible that you could show your Bayern replication?

In the middle of a match, so will edit this post when done

[SixPointer]

I have done a Gasperini replication. Was a challenge to a lot of work but feel am there now it’s posted on this. The hardest part is creating those famous rotations and overlapping CB’s. 

[scrubz]

2 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

In the middle of a match, so will edit this post when done

Could you share the tactic? 

[themadsheep2001]

47 minutes ago, scrubz said:

Much appreciated! Always interesting to see the interpretation of others.

So this is my more aggressive version,  I typically have the LCM as a Central mid defend, and the RCM as central mid/roaming PM/BBM, basically anything support. Essentially want a double pivot.

Tonali has comes deep, and with both CMs having high work rate I could get away with a higher double pivot, but you need absolutely quality central mids

The main things that came out of our discussion were CF and Wide players closing down and tight marking, as they are your front press (watch how quickly they fight for the ball I added tackle harder, as I want that harassment)

Muller at AMC, hes not a true playmaker as a footballer, but he is involved in their final build up immensely. @Rashidi initial set up went with a Treq, as you want him drifting and moving into the channels and wide, I flip between this and a Shadow striker with roaming. 

CF is complete forward support, he's leading the line, but also has the ability to drop deeper and link up.

LB has play wider and cross from by line. Like the Davies of real life, I want him running that whole flank. AWB plays that Pavard role, only really moving up the pitch when the ball is on his flank

Ball playing defender has dribbler more, want him to be able to carry into midfield if need be

[scrubz]

55 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

So this is my more aggressive version,  I typically have the LCM as a Central mid defend, and the RCM as central mid/roaming PM/BBM, basically anything support. Essentially want a double pivot.

Tonali has comes deep, and with both CMs having high work rate I could get away with a higher double pivot, but you need absolutely quality central mids

The main things that came out of our discussion were CF and Wide players closing down and tight marking, as they are your front press (watch how quickly they fight for the ball I added tackle harder, as I want that harassment)

Muller at AMC, hes not a true playmaker as a footballer, but he is involved in their final build up immensely. @Rashidi initial set up went with a Treq, as you want him drifting and moving into the channels and wide, I flip between this and a Shadow striker with roaming. 

CF is complete forward support, he's leading the line, but also has the ability to drop deeper and link up.

LB has play wider and cross from by line. Like the Davies of real life, I want him running that whole flank. AWB plays that Pavard role, only really moving up the pitch when the ball is on his flank

Ball playing defender has dribbler more, want him to be able to carry into midfield if need be

Looking good, haven't really tried Muller out as a trequartista - i will give that a try.

I usually prefer the deeper double pivots, Thiago as a HB/DLP-d and Goretzka as Volante to get that box-to-boxish pivot. 

[carloshcorbalan]

podrias subir enlace para probarla tal cual fue armada, con instrucciones individuales , etc,etc...

gracias.

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, carloshcorbalan said:

podrias subir enlace para probarla tal cual fue armada, con instrucciones individuales , etc,etc...

gracias.

Could you please translate your post into English?

[carloshcorbalan]

You could upload a link to test it as it was assembled, with individual instructions, etc, etc ...

Thank you.

[FMunderachiever]

5 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

So this is my more aggressive version,  I typically have the LCM as a Central mid defend, and the RCM as central mid/roaming PM/BBM, basically anything support. Essentially want a double pivot.

Tonali has comes deep, and with both CMs having high work rate I could get away with a higher double pivot, but you need absolutely quality central mids

The main things that came out of our discussion were CF and Wide players closing down and tight marking, as they are your front press (watch how quickly they fight for the ball I added tackle harder, as I want that harassment)

Muller at AMC, hes not a true playmaker as a footballer, but he is involved in their final build up immensely. @Rashidi initial set up went with a Treq, as you want him drifting and moving into the channels and wide, I flip between this and a Shadow striker with roaming. 

CF is complete forward support, he's leading the line, but also has the ability to drop deeper and link up.

LB has play wider and cross from by line. Like the Davies of real life, I want him running that whole flank. AWB plays that Pavard role, only really moving up the pitch when the ball is on his flank

Ball playing defender has dribbler more, want him to be able to carry into midfield if need be

So if this was Bayern, you would be using Muller as a Trequartista, Goretzka as the box to box midfielder? and thiago/kimmich as the roaming playmaker?

Mullers role i dont think can be replicated. Hes kind of like a Raumdeuter in attack, with the buildup qualities of an attacking midfielder. If there was such a thing, id call him the "complete attacking midfielder" if it was such a role, like complete forward.

Also by playing "very narrow" is this an instruction to focus play through your central players? does this not take away one of your key weapons which is the athletic runs of Davies?

[Amarante]

4 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

So if this was Bayern, you would be using Muller as a Trequartista, Goretzka as the box to box midfielder? and thiago/kimmich as the roaming playmaker?

Mullers role i dont think can be replicated. Hes kind of like a Raumdeuter in attack, with the buildup qualities of an attacking midfielder. If there was such a thing, id call him the "complete attacking midfielder" if it was such a role, like complete forward.

Also by playing "very narrow" is this an instruction to focus play through your central players? does this not take away one of your key weapons which is the athletic runs of Davies?

A Treq could be considered the AM version of a Raumdeuter. Alos Muller is doing more playmaking than goal scoring so a Treq would be the exact role to fit him this season. He's using his great spatial awarnes to create goals and score them

[FMunderachiever]

4 minutes ago, Amarante said:

A Treq could be considered the AM version of a Raumdeuter. Alos Muller is doing more playmaking than goal scoring so a Treq would be the exact role to fit him this season. He's using his great spatial awarnes to create goals and score them

It shouldnt be though really, because the idea of a trequartista is to drift around as a creative force, whilst defensively not doing much.

This is based on the way the game describes his role.

All opinions i guess but Muller is one of the hardest pressing players in the side, and not someone who would be dribbling a lot like the trequartista.

But then again if that tactic works then who am i to argue.

[themadsheep2001]

5 hours ago, FMunderachiever said:

It shouldnt be though really, because the idea of a trequartista is to drift around as a creative force, whilst defensively not doing much.

This is based on the way the game describes his role.

All opinions i guess but Muller is one of the hardest pressing players in the side, and not someone who would be dribbling a lot like the trequartista.

But then again if that tactic works then who am i to argue.

A tree does more defensive work than you think, especially when the player has the right attributes for it. And that's a key point here. The ability of players can't be understated when replicating

[themadsheep2001]

5 hours ago, FMunderachiever said:

So if this was Bayern, you would be using Muller as a Trequartista, Goretzka as the box to box midfielder? and thiago/kimmich as the roaming playmaker?

Mullers role i dont think can be replicated. Hes kind of like a Raumdeuter in attack, with the buildup qualities of an attacking midfielder. If there was such a thing, id call him the "complete attacking midfielder" if it was such a role, like complete forward.

Also by playing "very narrow" is this an instruction to focus play through your central players? does this not take away one of your key weapons which is the athletic runs of Davies?

Answered the treq question, but no, it doesn't take away my key weapon in Davies. 

[themadsheep2001]

This is what I usually play:

I'll explain some of my reasoning briefly, as I've deviated slightly from @Rashidi led dicussion

I've gone for Dribble Less, partly because I think there's too much dribbling, but mostly to encourage Bayerns in-out wall passing, while leaving the right players to still drive on the ball (Front 4 plus Davies, who has been given dribble more, stay wider)

There's a few key things that Bayern tend to do that are situational so they become tactical tweaks:

Adapting the highline, pushing higher up the pitch

"Kimmich" at right back: rather than the supporting full back role the likes of Pavard might play, Kimmich (like he did against PSG) will underlap and play angles passes, so his role would become IWB/S, with the AMR keeping the width instead

Bayern are happy to go longer, or shift tempo when required, and early crosses can encourage that little dinked cross from just outside the box to the back post that Bayern use when not getting joy around the outside

Bayern stay closely connected with their wall passing, so I wouldn't move beyond fairly narrow

Ended up avoiding playmaker roles, as it interfered with the wall passing, instead I'd focus on the central duo having the ability to dictate tempo

I tend to start with most of the side on shoot less, because when you look at Bayern's individual shots per game, outside of Lewandowski, they are quite low, as they look to create the right shot. only Muller shoots more than twice a match; 

[04texag]

On 22/08/2020 at 18:52, Amarante said:

A Treq could be considered the AM version of a Raumdeuter. Alos Muller is doing more playmaking than goal scoring so a Treq would be the exact role to fit him this season. He's using his great spatial awarnes to create goals and score them

I'd mostly agree with parts of this, ya that sounds confusing. Biggest issue with finding a role in this game for the way Muller has been playing in the CL, is his aggressive pressing. He often times is out in front of Lewandoski on defense, chasing down the CB's aggressively.

[Rashidi]

In my bayern replication playing Muller as a TQ was strange, admittedly. But he still had the same amount of defensive actions per game as he would in real life (5).  Ultimately your LOE, mentality and player attributes play a big part in whether the TQ drops or not. There are several options. Tbf there isn't ANY role in the game which with its description will nail the Muller role. (He's done it again, first Raumdeuter now this new role).

I also went to check with several other sources incldg Coaches Voice, one thing in common was the fluidity of the attack. Muller can appear on the left of a 4231 and on the right. Even the AML/AMR can drift around and Lewandowski himself drops a lot. For that last part i had to add roam or use roaming roles and I had the swap on for the AML/AMR.

I don't envy SI, first they had Wilders Backs, now they gonna have Mullers AM

[Rashidi]

On 23/08/2020 at 07:47, FMunderachiever said:

Also by playing "very narrow" is this an instruction to focus play through your central players? does this not take away one of your key weapons which is the athletic runs of Davies?

You are confusing what the width instruction does with the role description for the position.  A wingback can bomb down the flank on ANY width setting. 

[FMunderachiever]

Just now, Rashidi said:

You are confusing what the width instruction does with the role description for the position.  A wingback can bomb down the flank on ANY width setting. 

Hypothetically, if you were to choose "narrow" width with a wing back/Attacking wide player who is coded or has a PI to "stay wider"

Does that mean you would see a greater gap between the central players and the wide players?

Im not really sure where the distinction lies here?

Are you saying "play narrow" to have your central players closer together like two centrebacks, central midfielders etc, but  then use PI's or even player traits like "hugs line" to have them bombing down a flank?

 

 

 

[Rashidi]

When you set width to narrow you are encouraging your team to look inside when they work the ball up the pitch, when you use wide width you are encouraging your team to use the wider areas. The vertical tiki taka system in the game uses very narrow width settings for a reason. Its meant to create "wall passes" basically fullback plays inside pass, then moves forward to receive the pass. So the teams first priority is to go in then out. Positionally the team will be more compact, but a team will look different in each phase of its transition, so one needs to pay attention.  You can influence their positioning if you want to by asking individual players to stay wide if you want. I just dont bother because some roles have traits or are naturally biased to play down the flanks like WBs. 

And no to your last question. I am not trying to get the two central defenders to stay closer by asking the team to play narrower. 

[FMunderachiever]

6 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

When you set width to narrow you are encouraging your team to look inside when they work the ball up the pitch, when you use wide width you are encouraging your team to use the wider areas. The vertical tiki taka system in the game uses very narrow width settings for a reason. Its meant to create "wall passes" basically fullback plays inside pass, then moves forward to receive the pass. So the teams first priority is to go in then out. Positionally the team will be more compact, but a team will look different in each phase of its transition, so one needs to pay attention.  You can influence their positioning if you want to by asking individual players to stay wide if you want. I just dont bother because some roles have traits or are naturally biased to play down the flanks like WBs. 

And no to your last question. I am not trying to get the two central defenders to stay closer by asking the team to play narrower. 

I dont really get what you mean sorry?

I understand the concept of playing one-twos to advance up the pitch thats fine, so youre saying when you set width to "narrow" your players dont ACTUALLY become more narrow (i.e more away from the touchline), they just look to pass the ball inside more when the balls in a wide area?

Whereas lets say we chose width to be "wide" then the players dont actually become any wider, it means that if a player has the ball centrally, rather than look to pass to a team mate who is also central, he will look for a longer pass to the wings instead?

If i understand you correctly?

[Luizinho]

Is a ‘wall pass’ the same as a ‘one, two pass’?

[FMunderachiever]

4 minutes ago, Luizinho said:

Is a ‘wall pass’ the same as a ‘one, two pass’?

in my understanding, yes

[Amarante]

58 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

I dont really get what you mean sorry?

I understand the concept of playing one-twos to advance up the pitch thats fine, so youre saying when you set width to "narrow" your players dont ACTUALLY become more narrow (i.e more away from the touchline), they just look to pass the ball inside more when the balls in a wide area?

Whereas lets say we chose width to be "wide" then the players dont actually become any wider, it means that if a player has the ball centrally, rather than look to pass to a team mate who is also central, he will look for a longer pass to the wings instead?

If i understand you correctly?

This is the case. The wording on some of the settings are a bit weird but this i believe is what he means. Narrow means they look to play inside more  while wide means they playmore out wide. Just look at all the passing tactics why are we always on narrow, so that the ball can be played inside

[Rashidi]

Just read the description on width settings. 

[FMunderachiever]

46 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Just read the description on width settings. 

The description of "narrow" width is:

"This instructs players to play almost exclusively through the central areas of the pitch, congesting the play to a smaller area and working in much more intricate confines"

That was exactly my point, not yours.

The in game description literally says playing "almost exclusively through the middleof the pitch" and "congesting the play into a smaller area and working in much more intricate confines"

My original point was (above)

Also by playing "very narrow" is this an instruction to focus play through your central players? does this not take away one of your key weapons which is the athletic runs of Davies

So its not that I dont understand the wording used by football manager, its that the wording as usual is crap, because it doesnt reflect the action on the field.

Your point is that wide players play the ball inside if playing narrow. Not that players sit closer together and work in small confines.

A wing back bombing on doesnt fit the idea that the players would be confined.

Again, the issue is not what you do on the field which yields great results, its crap fm language.

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by FMunderachiever

[Rashidi]

2 hours ago, FMunderachiever said:

players to play almost exclusively through the central areas of the pitch,

It tells the players to play through the centre.  

 

 

[FMunderachiever]

21 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

It tells the players to play through the centre.  

 

 

In the context of talking about Aphonso Davies in the posts above

Is your choice of role for Davies to drag defenders over towards him to open up more space for your central players, as opposed to actually using Davies to provide you with assists?

Or is to to play narrow so youve got an overload in the middle of the field so players like Davies can come forward to give you more width?

If you focusing the play through the middle, hes not going to touch the ball very much?

Edited August 26, 2020 by FMunderachiever

[04texag]

 

 

Here is a good video on Bayern post Flick. Thought I'd share...

[yonko]

10 hours ago, Rashidi said:

In my bayern replication playing Muller as a TQ was strange, admittedly. But he still had the same amount of defensive actions per game as he would in real life (5).  Ultimately your LOE, mentality and player attributes play a big part in whether the TQ drops or not. There are several options. Tbf there isn't ANY role in the game which with its description will nail the Muller role. (He's done it again, first Raumdeuter now this new role).

I also went to check with several other sources incldg Coaches Voice, one thing in common was the fluidity of the attack. Muller can appear on the left of a 4231 and on the right. Even the AML/AMR can drift around and Lewandowski himself drops a lot. For that last part i had to add roam or use roaming roles and I had the swap on for the AML/AMR.

I don't envy SI, first they had Wilders Backs, now they gonna have Mullers AM

Perhaps SI should make Raumdeuter role available for AMC position. Or create a roaming AM role who creates with his movement and direct plays rather than vision and skill. 

I saw your Bayern replication on Twitch with Velez. Do you think it makes a big difference between using 2 DMs or 2 CMs? I consider Thiago's role to be more of a DLP-D rather than HB. So if 2 DMs it would be VOL-S + DLP-D or if 2 CMs it would be BBM-S + DLP-D. Is the Volante on Support role more dynamic role than BBM? Is there a difference between which role defends and attacks more?

[[SFW]Medic Tim]

How about 4-2-3-1 Narrow with 3AM with stay wider and get further forward instructions? 

I wanna overload the box with attacking players like the goal scored by Coman, there were 4 bayren players inside the box with Goretzka arriving late. 

 

[josel15]

13 hours ago, Rashidi said:

In my bayern replication playing Muller as a TQ was strange, admittedly. But he still had the same amount of defensive actions per game as he would in real life (5).  Ultimately your LOE, mentality and player attributes play a big part in whether the TQ drops or not. There are several options. Tbf there isn't ANY role in the game which with its description will nail the Muller role. (He's done it again, first Raumdeuter now this new role).

I also went to check with several other sources incldg Coaches Voice, one thing in common was the fluidity of the attack. Muller can appear on the left of a 4231 and on the right. Even the AML/AMR can drift around and Lewandowski himself drops a lot. For that last part i had to add roam or use roaming roles and I had the swap on for the AML/AMR.

I don't envy SI, first they had Wilders Backs, now they gonna have Mullers AM

Sorry, @Rashidi, but where is your replication?

[Cheez3y]

6 hours ago, yonko said:

Perhaps SI should make Raumdeuter role available for AMC position.

Yes, this would be the ideal thing.

[Irn Rvd]

5 hours ago, josel15 said:

Sorry, @Rashidi, but where is your replication?

Just found this on Rashidi's youtube: 

 

[josel15]

29 minutes ago, Irn Rvd said:

Just found this on Rashidi's youtube: 

 

Thank you!
I wasn't finding it!