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Struggling? Start with fixing your defending first!

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Quick Intro

Something I've learned over the years from playing FM and reading this forum (as well as the guides from some awesome players like Rashidi + cleon + thehandofgod) is that you need to focus on getting your defending right FIRST.  I think it's really easy to fall into a trap of creating a system based on how you want to attack, and assuming that you can defend properly sort of on autopilot.  What I mean by that is, not paying enough attention to how your defending style impacts your attack.  And it's understandable right? Because thinking of how your team is going to defend isn't that sexy.  It's way more interesting to think up attacking patterns and dreaming of having guys bagging 30+ goals in a season and 20+ assists.  

But if you can't defend, the rest is moot. 

 

Know Your Team and Know Your Formation (shape) 

Let's say you're the new manager at Perugia in my current save with Napoli.  We're in the year 2020 (second season) and your club was just promoted to Serie A.  The absolute first thing you should do BEFORE implementing any tactical plan is to look at your team report, and go to the comparison page.  Click on "Defense" and look at the ratings below, which shows your team's average attribute rating across the categories on the bottom.  Here is what Perugia looks like: 

RC1Z9yv.jpg?1

What do you notice? 

The defenders at Perugia are relatively athletic in terms of jumping and strength, but nothing special.  Their positioning is horrible, and their tackling is too.  That's not good.  This team will get pounded if they're not organized really well by a savvy manager. So how would you set them up?  If you answer:  "press high and hard!"  You're going to get torn apart.   If you answer:  "Keep a compact shape and try to win headers/defend narrow"  you're on the right track.. The point here, obviously, is you have to understand what your team is good at (and not good at) in order to correctly organize your defense.  There's no point in trying to press the hell out of your opponent if your team is slow and poor at tackling.  

Now in terms of formation and shape:   you need to understand the strengths and weaknesses of your formation.  There is no perfect formation. There is no perfect way to cover every blade of grass.  It would be ridiculous to try to explain the pros/cons of every possible formation so let's just use one as an example (and I'll pick a popular one).   The same concepts apply to any formation. 

H12XMsI.jpg

This is your basic 4-3-3.   The yellow squares highlight areas where you could be vulnerable, because those areas are where the space is.  It's also an indication of areas where you could be easily outnumbered. For example..  the wide defenders are potentially isolated and marked out of the game by an aggressive attacker.  I have won a few games against better teams who use this shape, by simply tight-marking and closing down hard on one or both of the team's wide defenders, who are CRITICAL for providing width and passing options. In fact, if you check the passing combinations analysis after a match against a 4-3-3, I'll bet you see a ton of combinations between the wide defenders and the central mids.  So, you can see how that could be a strength, but also a weakness! 

Then there's the space between your front 3 and the midfield 3.  This area is super important because it's considered the "golden zone"  (more info on that by Rashidi, just google it + bustthenet on Youtube) and it's the zone on the pitch most managers are obsessed with for good reason.  You can create havoc by controlling this space.  You can also totally thwart a good attack by properly defending this space. 

The roles and duties you give to your players will determine how the formation looks in various phases of play, so it's not always going to look exactly the same.  BUT, you do need to understand how the formation works at its core.  In the example above, would you want to try to play a style that could potentially leave your wide defenders isolated?  If so, they better be EXCEPTIONALLY good players.  Otherwise, they can get easily overloaded. If you drop the 2 wide attackers down to the ML/MR spots, you now have much better coverage for your wide defenders, because you've decreased the natural space left between them. 

Apply this to ALL formations.  Look for spaces, and look for spots where you can be outnumbered and overloaded.  Of course the same applies to how you can exploit the other team. 

 

Fixing Problems - Start With The Basics! 

Let's say your team is not performing well, and you're under-achieving.  Your not defending terribly, but you're also not attacking well either (or consistently).   It would be easy to focus ONLY on the attacking tactics, but have you considered that your defending style is possibly hampering your ability to attack?  Let's use an example with my Napoli. 

We're in first place through 12 matches, but we've had some inconsistent performances, despite getting good results.   What I noticed was that our attack seemed to be decently set up, but it just lacked some bite. I tried adjusting a few things in our attacking instructions, but it didn't help.   Then, it hit me..     I'm playing a 4-3-1-2 which is a narrow formation with a trident up top.  What do you suppose that formation would excel at?  If you guessed "pressing the crap out of the other team from the front"  You're right! 

The issue was that I thought we were defending "well" but in reality, we weren't taking advantage of our formation and the benefits it has. We were playing on a positive mentality, with a slightly higher D-Line, and an offside trap.  That's it.  I used player instructions on the front 3 to close down more.   But I didn't have anything else ticked.   The idea was to push up a bit and try to win the ball back in the middle of the pitch, but still leave space behind the other team to attack into.   But that wasn't wise, because based on our shape, it's not all that effective. The other team can sit deep, and there's simply not enough wide attackers in our formation to stretch them out and get in behind quickly.  

So what did I do?   I didn't make any drastic changes.  Same formation, same principles BUT I tweaked our defensive instructions.   So now it looks like this: 

Positive Mentality, 4-3-1-2, higher def line, higher line of engagement, prevent short GK distribution and offside trap.  I added two instructions!  That's it.  And it totally transformed the effectiveness of our pressing, and our defending.   Now, we're causing turnovers higher up the pitch, and its generating much more dangerous attacking play for our forwards. It's clear now, we were too passive in our defending prior to these changes.  While it did technically "work", it just wasn't as good as it could be.   For example, before the changes, we barely scraped a draw at home against Athletic Bilbao in the champions league.  After the changes?  We went to Bilbao and crapped all over them.  Ran them into the ground.  Wasn't even close.   2 small-ish tweaks based on keeping things simple and looking at our formation.   

In Conclusion 

I hope this helps someone figure things out because I know how frustrating this game can be.  Ultimately, I think it comes down to being able to balance your expectations with what is reasonably possible.  But, it's also about getting the absolute basics correct first.  Fix the defending, and I promise your team will be getting results. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, bababooey said:

Quick Intro

Something I've learned over the years from playing FM and reading this forum (as well as the guides from some awesome players like Rashidi + cleon + thehandofgod) is that you need to focus on getting your defending right FIRST.  I think it's really easy to fall into a trap of creating a system based on how you want to attack, and assuming that you can defend properly sort of on autopilot.  What I mean by that is, not paying enough attention to how your defending style impacts your attack.  And it's understandable right? Because thinking of how your team is going to defend isn't that sexy.  It's way more interesting to think up attacking patterns and dreaming of having guys bagging 30+ goals in a season and 20+ assists.  

But if you can't defend, the rest is moot. 

 

Know Your Team and Know Your Formation (shape) 

Let's say you're the new manager at Perugia in my current save with Napoli.  We're in the year 2020 (second season) and your club was just promoted to Serie A.  The absolute first thing you should do BEFORE implementing any tactical plan is to look at your team report, and go to the comparison page.  Click on "Defense" and look at the ratings below, which shows your team's average attribute rating across the categories on the bottom.  Here is what Perugia looks like: 

RC1Z9yv.jpg?1

What do you notice? 

The defenders at Perugia are relatively athletic in terms of jumping and strength, but nothing special.  Their positioning is horrible, and their tackling is too.  That's not good.  This team will get pounded if they're not organized really well by a savvy manager. So how would you set them up?  If you answer:  "press high and hard!"  You're going to get torn apart.   If you answer:  "Keep a compact shape and try to win headers/defend narrow"  you're on the right track.. The point here, obviously, is you have to understand what your team is good at (and not good at) in order to correctly organize your defense.  There's no point in trying to press the hell out of your opponent if your team is slow and poor at tackling.  

Now in terms of formation and shape:   you need to understand the strengths and weaknesses of your formation.  There is no perfect formation. There is no perfect way to cover every blade of grass.  It would be ridiculous to try to explain the pros/cons of every possible formation so let's just use one as an example (and I'll pick a popular one).   The same concepts apply to any formation. 

H12XMsI.jpg

This is your basic 4-3-3.   The yellow squares highlight areas where you could be vulnerable, because those areas are where the space is.  It's also an indication of areas where you could be easily outnumbered. For example..  the wide defenders are potentially isolated and marked out of the game by an aggressive attacker.  I have won a few games against better teams who use this shape, by simply tight-marking and closing down hard on one or both of the team's wide defenders, who are CRITICAL for providing width and passing options. In fact, if you check the passing combinations analysis after a match against a 4-3-3, I'll bet you see a ton of combinations between the wide defenders and the central mids.  So, you can see how that could be a strength, but also a weakness! 

Then there's the space between your front 3 and the midfield 3.  This area is super important because it's considered the "golden zone"  (more info on that by Rashidi, just google it + bustthenet on Youtube) and it's the zone on the pitch most managers are obsessed with for good reason.  You can create havoc by controlling this space.  You can also totally thwart a good attack by properly defending this space. 

The roles and duties you give to your players will determine how the formation looks in various phases of play, so it's not always going to look exactly the same.  BUT, you do need to understand how the formation works at its core.  In the example above, would you want to try to play a style that could potentially leave your wide defenders isolated?  If so, they better be EXCEPTIONALLY good players.  Otherwise, they can get easily overloaded. If you drop the 2 wide attackers down to the ML/MR spots, you now have much better coverage for your wide defenders, because you've decreased the natural space left between them. 

Apply this to ALL formations.  Look for spaces, and look for spots where you can be outnumbered and overloaded.  Of course the same applies to how you can exploit the other team. 

 

Fixing Problems - Start With The Basics! 

Let's say your team is not performing well, and you're under-achieving.  Your not defending terribly, but you're also not attacking well either (or consistently).   It would be easy to focus ONLY on the attacking tactics, but have you considered that your defending style is possibly hampering your ability to attack?  Let's use an example with my Napoli. 

We're in first place through 12 matches, but we've had some inconsistent performances, despite getting good results.   What I noticed was that our attack seemed to be decently set up, but it just lacked some bite. I tried adjusting a few things in our attacking instructions, but it didn't help.   Then, it hit me..     I'm playing a 4-3-1-2 which is a narrow formation with a trident up top.  What do you suppose that formation would excel at?  If you guessed "pressing the crap out of the other team from the front"  You're right! 

The issue was that I thought we were defending "well" but in reality, we weren't taking advantage of our formation and the benefits it has. We were playing on a positive mentality, with a slightly higher D-Line, and an offside trap.  That's it.  I used player instructions on the front 3 to close down more.   But I didn't have anything else ticked.   The idea was to push up a bit and try to win the ball back in the middle of the pitch, but still leave space behind the other team to attack into.   But that wasn't wise, because based on our shape, it's not all that effective. The other team can sit deep, and there's simply not enough wide attackers in our formation to stretch them out and get in behind quickly.  

So what did I do?   I didn't make any drastic changes.  Same formation, same principles BUT I tweaked our defensive instructions.   So now it looks like this: 

Positive Mentality, 4-3-1-2, higher def line, higher line of engagement, prevent short GK distribution and offside trap.  I added two instructions!  That's it.  And it totally transformed the effectiveness of our pressing, and our defending.   Now, we're causing turnovers higher up the pitch, and its generating much more dangerous attacking play for our forwards. It's clear now, we were too passive in our defending prior to these changes.  While it did technically "work", it just wasn't as good as it could be.   For example, before the changes, we barely scraped a draw at home against Athletic Bilbao in the champions league.  After the changes?  We went to Bilbao and crapped all over them.  Ran them into the ground.  Wasn't even close.   2 small-ish tweaks based on keeping things simple and looking at our formation.   

In Conclusion 

I hope this helps someone figure things out because I know how frustrating this game can be.  Ultimately, I think it comes down to being able to balance your expectations with what is reasonably possible.  But, it's also about getting the absolute basics correct first.  Fix the defending, and I promise your team will be getting results. 

 

 

Fascinating read and something I’d not taken into consideration! I’d been so busy trying the make my front 3 at Brentford tick that I’d not paid attention to my defending and I seem to be conceding goals especially from wide areas. Thankfully I’m out scoring most teams but very frustrating conceding goals almost every game. Having looked at my defence report and we don’t have a lot going for us despite my back 4 looking really good on paper. I’ll post my tactic first and then show you the report on my defence.

 

1F9054FF-E02B-479D-A125-88C818079BB1.thumb.jpeg.ad71950fbd17a1679b7b396ef6e36e14.jpeg

According to the team report we have just above league average positioning and good pace and acceleration (full backs are fairly quick, centre backs are average at best 12 and 13) so mixed feelings on this weather I should play a high line or not.

The team report says I’m poor at everything else. However my full back and 2 centre halves to me have really good heading attributes and jumping reach all 3 have jumping reaches of 16 and above and all 3 have heading of between 13 and 15. It’s only my attacking left back who has poor attributes, my back up centre halves have fairly good heading attributes as well.

again apparently I have poor tackling but left back has 12 centre backs have 14 and 15 and right back has 13 so again I’d say pretty good. 2 centre half’s have good marking and full backs have not so good.

 

Basically what I’m trying to say is team report seems to be telling me I’m poor at a lot of things which actually their attributes for these are pretty good so I’m slightly confused what to believe and how I should be defending. 

F2A982B3-499E-4F6D-83E4-2E3D3C79CC7C.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Sarriball14 said:

Fascinating read and something I’d not taken into consideration! I’d been so busy trying the make my front 3 at Brentford tick that I’d not paid attention to my defending and I seem to be conceding goals especially from wide areas. Thankfully I’m out scoring most teams but very frustrating conceding goals almost every game. Having looked at my defence report and we don’t have a lot going for us despite my back 4 looking really good on paper. I’ll post my tactic first and then show you the report on my defence.

What I see right away is that your left flank is quite exposed with two attack duties + the box to box left sided center mid.  Is it worth it? Are you getting enough contribution from that side to where it's acceptable? 

 

 

1 hour ago, Sarriball14 said:

According to the team report we have just above league average positioning and good pace and acceleration (full backs are fairly quick, centre backs are average at best 12 and 13) so mixed feelings on this weather I should play a high line or not.

The team report says I’m poor at everything else. However my full back and 2 centre halves to me have really good heading attributes and jumping reach all 3 have jumping reaches of 16 and above and all 3 have heading of between 13 and 15. It’s only my attacking left back who has poor attributes, my back up centre halves have fairly good heading attributes as well.

again apparently I have poor tackling but left back has 12 centre backs have 14 and 15 and right back has 13 so again I’d say pretty good. 2 centre half’s have good marking and full backs have not so good.

 

Basically what I’m trying to say is team report seems to be telling me I’m poor at a lot of things which actually their attributes for these are pretty good so I’m slightly confused what to believe and how I should be defending. 

Your team report comparison of average attributes is a comparison against the teams in your domestic league.  I don't know a whole bunch about Brentford but from the team report image, I can see that your defense is rated poorly compared to the rest of the Championship.  You do however have a very quick defense, which can be a distinct advantage. 

As for why some of the averages are low...    The answer is that although you may have some high(er) attributes for a couple defenders, you probably have lower attributes on other defenders bringing that average down.  

 

If I were you, I'd need to look at the whole team to know how to defend, and of course I'd need to know what Brentford's standing in the league is like (media prediction, etc.) 

I am guessing that Brentford is a decent team, and in that case it sounds like you're doing well regardless. 

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4 minutes ago, bababooey said:

What I see right away is that your left flank is quite exposed with two attack duties + the box to box left sided center mid.  Is it worth it? Are you getting enough contribution from that side to where it's acceptable? 
 

I have thought about this being a problem myself. Rico Henry my left full back Is unbelievably good, I’ve got all the top teams in the prem chasing him so I wanted to use him as an attacking wing back and it works going forward. As for the AML I’ve been fiddling around with their roles trying to get the best out of them as it’s been a struggle. Benrahma has scored a lot of goals in real life this season so I’m trying to replicate that in game. As for the B2B midfielder I’ve been debating this role for a while and not really sure what role to go for, maybe a carrileo? I don’t claim to be a tactical genius far from it lol so some things will be more obvious to others than me 

 

 

Your team report comparison of average attributes is a comparison against the teams in your domestic league.  I don't know a whole bunch about Brentford but from the team report image, I can see that your defense is rated poorly compared to the rest of the Championship.  You do however have a very quick defense, which can be a distinct advantage. 

As for why some of the averages are low...    The answer is that although you may have some high(er) attributes for a couple defenders, you probably have lower attributes on other defenders bringing that average down.  

 

If I were you, I'd need to look at the whole team to know how to defend, and of course I'd need to know what Brentford's standing in the league is like (media prediction, etc.) 

I am guessing that Brentford is a decent team, and in that case it sounds like you're doing well regardless. 

 

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57 minutes ago, Sarriball14 said:

I have thought about this being a problem myself. Rico Henry my left full back Is unbelievably good, I’ve got all the top teams in the prem chasing him so I wanted to use him as an attacking wing back and it works going forward. As for the AML I’ve been fiddling around with their roles trying to get the best out of them as it’s been a struggle. Benrahma has scored a lot of goals in real life this season so I’m trying to replicate that in game. As for the B2B midfielder I’ve been debating this role for a while and not really sure what role to go for, maybe a carrileo? I don’t claim to be a tactical genius far from it lol so some things will be more obvious to others than me 

I'm not sure - it really depends on what you're trying to do with your tactic.  It APPEARS to me you're trying to play an extremely fast-paced possession style.  That's going to be difficult to maintain with Brentford. 

Are you struggling to keep the ball?  Is your only issue the AML not scoring?   

 

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2 minutes ago, bababooey said:

I'm not sure - it really depends on what you're trying to do with your tactic.  It APPEARS to me you're trying to play an extremely fast-paced possession style.  That's going to be difficult to maintain with Brentford. 

Are you struggling to keep the ball?  Is your only issue the AML not scoring?   

 

That’s what I was trying to play, and going by team report they seemed capable of that, good passing, first touch, flair composure etc... Keeping the ball isn’t the issue. We aren’t giving it away cheaply. Occasionally that happens but that happens to all teams in real life right? What tends to happen is both wide players seem to be having tame shots at the keeper from point blank and then the keeper distributes it to their wide attackers and they get at me that way with cutting inside and shooting or crosses into the box. Also from their goal kicks as well the same happens. Tbh I’ve tinkered about quite a bit with the forward line. My striker is top goal scorer in the league and my left winger is up there as well so it’s not that bad. Getting assists from both wingers and full backs. I just seem to be conceding to many chances and goals when they’ve got the ball. I’ve fiddled around so much I’ve lost touch with what I really want lol!

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3 minutes ago, Sarriball14 said:

That’s what I was trying to play, and going by team report they seemed capable of that, good passing, first touch, flair composure etc... Keeping the ball isn’t the issue. We aren’t giving it away cheaply. Occasionally that happens but that happens to all teams in real life right? What tends to happen is both wide players seem to be having tame shots at the keeper from point blank and then the keeper distributes it to their wide attackers and they get at me that way with cutting inside and shooting or crosses into the box. Also from their goal kicks as well the same happens. Tbh I’ve tinkered about quite a bit with the forward line. My striker is top goal scorer in the league and my left winger is up there as well so it’s not that bad. Getting assists from both wingers and full backs. I just seem to be conceding to many chances and goals when they’ve got the ball. I’ve fiddled around so much I’ve lost touch with what I really want lol!

I mean, if your striker is the top scorer in the league, I'd say you're doing great.  You can sure up your defending if you change that AML into support (it will help!).  Also you could try a role for the Box To Box which doesn't roam, so maybe the carrilero? 

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I'm playing a standard 4-3-3 just like in your post and I can confirm the wide defenders are pretty important, when facing big teams they will almost always try to overload you on the flanks.

On away games in UCL, i've started to drop my wingers a notch into the Wide Midfielder position, and play them with a Support role, while specifically instructing them to man mark their wide defender counterpart. It has been working pretty well. i'm definitely more solid defensively. At Camp Nou against Barcelona (they were using the same formation) i drew 0-0, didnt conceed any CCC and actually got only 2 less shots on target than them (9 vs 7), and I had more possession (52%). 


Facing CIty's 4231 though, it was a bit tougher, I drew 1-1, but I only got 3 shots on targets (7 total), while they got 9 (18 total). They didn't get CCC and it was mostly long shots from them, but on my side I didn't create much either. Because my wingers were my primary source of chances creation, and now they're busy defending I assume.

So while fixing the defending weaknesses of your formation is definitely a must, it has to be done in a way that doesnt restrict your ability to attack either. I haven't yet found a way to make my defensive rigor translate into counter attacks for example. I'm still unsure how to properly do that.

Edited by Fatkidscantjump

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I'm not sure what the point of this post is.

There's no real tangible advice here. Looking at a screen that shows an average of your stats is... less than helpful. 1 player being better/worse than the rest can massively inflate it one way or another, and it really doesn't give a good individual breakdown of your players.

In Football Manager, a good offence = the best defence has ALWAYS been true. You can win games playing defensively, yes, but this match engine is categorically tailored towards playing aggressively and defending high up the pitch. Advising people to do the opposite is misleading.

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11 minutes ago, Fatkidscantjump said:

I'm playing a standard 4-3-3 just like in your post and I can confirm the wide defenders are pretty important, when facing big teams they will almost always try to overload you on the flanks.

On away games in UCL, i've started to drop my wingers a notch into the Wide Midfielder position, and play them with a Support role, while specifically instructing them to man mark their wide defender counterpart. It has been working pretty well. i'm definitely more solid defensively. At Camp Nou against Barcelona (they were using the same formation) i drew 0-0, didnt conceed any CCC and actually got only 2 less shots on target than them (9 vs 7), and I had more possession (52%). 


Facing CIty's 4231 though, it was a bit tougher, I drew 1-1, but I only got 3 shots on targets (7 total), while they got 9 (18 total). They didn't get CCC and it was mostly long shots from them, but on my side I didn't create much either. Because my wingers were my primary source of chances creation, and now they're busy defending I assume.

So while fixing the defending weaknesses of your formation is definitely a must, it has to be done in a way that doesnt restrict your ability to attack either. I haven't yet found a way to make my defensive rigor translate into counter attacks for example. I'm still unsure how to properly do that.

 

The thing about the 4-2-3-1 is that it's so easy to apply an immense amount of pressure. So, that's why you'll see the AI man city (or any other big club) destroying teams if they use this shape and their manager likes to press high. 

It's really difficult because there's basically 4 dudes closing down ASAP in your own third, and then two more guys behind them that can break up your passing angles.  Add in the 2 wide defenders coming towards you, and it's an onslaught. 

The best thing to do, IMHO, is to make sure your team is not giving away the ball too easily, and find a way to get the ball to someone in space. The 4-2-3-1 wide always leaves tons of space when played aggressively...   The key is getting to it. 

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6 minutes ago, Smokedsalmon said:

I'm not sure what the point of this post is.

There's no real tangible advice here. Looking at a screen that shows an average of your stats is... less than helpful. 1 player being better/worse than the rest can massively inflate it one way or another, and it really doesn't give a good individual breakdown of your players.

In Football Manager, a good offence = the best defence has ALWAYS been true. You can win games playing defensively, yes, but this match engine is categorically tailored towards playing aggressively and defending high up the pitch. Advising people to do the opposite is misleading.

The point of the post is quite literally in the title...

The match engine isn't perfect, but to say it's "categorically" tailored towards playing aggressively is just wrong.  It's misleading.  

 

As for the screen showing average ratings, of course it's helpful.  It compares your team's average attribute ratings to those of your domestic league opponents. How is that NOT helpful?  

:seagull: :seagull:

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il y a 1 minute, bababooey a dit :

 

The thing about the 4-2-3-1 is that it's so easy to apply an immense amount of pressure. So, that's why you'll see the AI man city (or any other big club) destroying teams if they use this shape and their manager likes to press high. 

It's really difficult because there's basically 4 dudes closing down ASAP in your own third, and then two more guys behind them that can break up your passing angles.  Add in the 2 wide defenders coming towards you, and it's an onslaught. 

The best thing to do, IMHO, is to make sure your team is not giving away the ball too easily, and find a way to get the ball to someone in space. The 4-2-3-1 wide always leaves tons of space when played aggressively...   The key is getting to it. 

I made a lots of changes during the game to try and prevent that. I believe I swapped my DM to Half-back at some point so he could be an easier passing option for my CB (not sure if that's the right thing to do but it didnt seem to hurt). But yeah the pressing was intense. They've scored from a long shot however, they weren't that dangerous, because they had no space to operate in since they were so high up, so they were passing wide but my Winger / Wide Defender were there to defend in most cases.

However, I was scared of putting a winger in attack duty, to exploit the space left by their wingbacks. Maybe I should've done that to get more incisive counter attacks ? I'm not really sure. I was quite happy with the draw. My goal came at the end of the game, they were tired, and I swapped for the last 20 minutes to my initial 433, just swapping the mentality to very attacking (i had won first leg at home 2-1 so with their goal i was eliminated, needed to score). Luckily it worked, my wingback received the ball, crossed and my mezzala volleyed into the net. But yeah most of the game i was pretty much parking the bus.

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1 minute ago, bababooey said:

but to say it's "categorically" tailored towards playing aggressively is just wrong.  It's misleading.  

Absolutely false. You will always over-achieve playing aggressive and with a high line. Just look at ANY of the "OP" tactics made by people who have been doing it for years. Look at any youtube/twitch save. All the same.

1 minute ago, bababooey said:

As for the screen showing average ratings, of course it's helpful.  It compares your team's average attribute ratings to those of your domestic league opponents. How is that NOT helpful? 

Average attributes mean absolutely nothing compared to the 11 on the pitch. If I have 1 CB with 17 jumping reach and 17 heading and the rest of my CBs, let's say another 3, all have 12 in each, my average is mis-representative of the strengths of my squad.

Besides this, individual attributes are all over the place in this years game. Players with 8-9 long shots regularly bang them in, and players with low heading/jumping reach consistently out jump defenders, so basing your game off of trying to out-attribute the opponent instead of just focusing on your own team leads you on a hiding to nothing.

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5 minutes ago, Smokedsalmon said:

Absolutely false. You will always over-achieve playing aggressive and with a high line. Just look at ANY of the "OP" tactics made by people who have been doing it for years. Look at any youtube/twitch save. All the same.

It's true that you CAN over-achieve more easily by being aggressive.  But that doesn't mean it's the only way.  There's a ton of people who don't play the game that way and do just fine. 

 

8 minutes ago, Smokedsalmon said:

Average attributes mean absolutely nothing compared to the 11 on the pitch. If I have 1 CB with 17 jumping reach and 17 heading and the rest of my CBs, let's say another 3, all have 12 in each, my average is mis-representative of the strengths of my squad.

Besides this, individual attributes are all over the place in this years game. Players with 8-9 long shots regularly bang them in, and players with low heading/jumping reach consistently out jump defenders, so basing your game off of trying to out-attribute the opponent instead of just focusing on your own team leads you on a hiding to nothing.

Well Smokedsalmon...  let's do the math shall we?   

1 center back with 17 heading

3 center backs with 12 heading 

17 + 12 + 12 + 12 = 53

53 total attribute points / 4 total players =   13.25 average heading rating.    You're telling me honestly, that isn't representative of your squad?   

 

As for players with low ratings banging in long shots, it's true that used to be a larger issue.  Long shots have been fixed, and I don't see them  being hit at any sort of disproportionate rate. 

Players with low ratings can still get a good result.  It's not all or nothing. 

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@Smokedsalmon I am not going to argue with your subjective impressions, but have to warn you against trolling the topic with unfounded bold claims. There are different ways to be successful in FM from the tactical perspective, with the overly aggressive and senseless plug'n'play tactics being just one of them, but not the only (thankfully). 

You can post only constructive comments that contribute to the topic and nothing else. Otherwise I'll have no other choice but to remove your comments if you continue in the same manner. 

@bababooey Keep up the good work and please ignore any unconstructive comments that have no place in an instructive thread like this one :thup:

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