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This game is annoying. i don't care what people say but it is. I was playing in the europa league round of 16 with Leicester against Braga, I had 4 clear cut chances throughout the game that were all one on ones and all of them were put wide or hit straight at the keeper. then, Braga get a free kick about 35 yards out, what do they do? they smash it top bins... of course they do. Then, to make thigns even worse tielemans, arguably my best player gets injured and to make things even worse pereira gets sent off. oh yeah, i scored two disallowed goals as well... fyi, yes i did reload the game and go again for the first time ever because that game was an utter joke

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Posted (edited)

It’s amazing how these threads keep appearing every day 🤦‍♂️ Get the tinfoil hats out people! 
 

Putting the more constructive hat on;

1) This happens in real life. Regularly.

2) Uploading your tactic/match PKM file would allow people to assist - but based on your post I doubt you’ll do either.

3) You have to make changes/respond to what’s happening in front of you during the game. 

Edited by BuryBlade

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2 hours ago, BuryBlade said:

It’s amazing how these threads keep appearing every day 🤦‍♂️ Get the tinfoil hats out people! 
 

Putting the more constructive hat on;

1) This happens in real life. Regularly.

2) Uploading your tactic/match PKM file would allow people to assist - but based on your post I doubt you’ll do either.

3) You have to make changes/respond to what’s happening in front of you during the game. 

 

Leicester v SC Braga.pkm

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6 hours ago, BuryBlade said:

It’s amazing how these threads keep appearing every day 🤦‍♂️ Get the tinfoil hats out people! 
 

Putting the more constructive hat on;

1) This happens in real life. Regularly.

2) Uploading your tactic/match PKM file would allow people to assist - but based on your post I doubt you’ll do either.

3) You have to make changes/respond to what’s happening in front of you during the game. 

They could be appearing on regular basis because fm20 is far from perfect when match engine is in question. It makes it more frustating is that the game has a lot of potential to be tweaked to user's liking but it isn't. No need for tinfoil hats, it's his opinion and i partly agree with it, it makes me mad when you have clear cut chances, high quality chances, you've done everything you can, but the game decides you won't score and the opposition will due to luck (match engine calculating result for the first half, then second, and whenever the changes are made). It happens in the game, it happens in real life as well, pretty much on the regular basis, but still despite it happening, it makes you frustrated when you can't do anything about it, only thing that helps is that after i while i can spot that type of match from the start and do subs right away. There are different kinds of people playing fm, which like different aspects of the game. I hate the micromanaging of the tactical play, and i hate this match engine regardless of the tactics, but i love the other aspects od the game like the team building, player development, long term management, financial managment, history building and so on

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@Cjthew91 We appreciate your frustration, but please watch your language on the forums.  I have edited your post this time.

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9 hours ago, vukigepard said:

(match engine calculating result for the first half, then second, and whenever the changes are made).

This isn’t true. The game calculates minute by minute - it doesn’t decide at the start of the half what the result is going to be. Every decision made alters the outcome/timeline.

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25 minutes ago, BuryBlade said:

This isn’t true. The game calculates minute by minute - it doesn’t decide at the start of the half what the result is going to be. Every decision made alters the outcome/timeline.

Besides this, it's an interesting discussion with some devs like seb being quoted on the match engine. That's how i understood it when i read the thread.

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57 minutes ago, vukigepard said:

Besides this, it's an interesting discussion with some devs like seb being quoted on the match engine. That's how i understood it when i read the thread.

Thanks for this link, really interesting read. Whilst it slightly changes my view on how the ME works/calculates, as a manager I must make changes (most very small) 20-30 times a match which would each force a recalculation. On top of that, every time the AI changes something it would recalculate again. This is why I maintain that ‘scripting’ is a nonsense argument. The human manager has to react and make changes throughout the match.

I’ll link you to a post I did last year on making changes in game:

 

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On 23/07/2020 at 22:49, FrazT said:

@Cjthew91 We appreciate your frustration, but please watch your language on the forums.  I have edited your post this time.

Ah ok, sorry mate, i guess i was a little worked up XD

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On 23/07/2020 at 22:55, vukigepard said:

only thing that helps is that after i while i can spot that type of match from the start and do subs right away.

From the old days of playing champ manager to now .....i only play with commentary and yes, you see patterns developing which also assist you in making your pre-game, in-game and post game decisions.

....100% correct that it can be very frustrating if you can't see the patterns and start losing matches you believe you should be winning etc...

Pre-game:
Media questions make a huge difference and how i answer is based on a pattern i see. (for example, pre game war-of-words....in general stay away from this)

Post-game:
Keep it simple with positive or no-comment answers

In-game:
Too much to write about but you will see that there is a strong cause-and-effect scenario with the FM20 match engine. 

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On 24/07/2020 at 07:29, BuryBlade said:

This isn’t true. The game calculates minute by minute - it doesn’t decide at the start of the half what the result is going to be. Every decision made alters the outcome/timeline.

I'm starting to see why people say this based on my last two seasons of relegation battles.

When you're on a bad run and haven't won in a few games, you can batter the hell of the opposition at home and be one or two goals ahead going into the last 5-10 mins. You do all the right things; go defensive, pin back your full backs, man mark all the players in the opposition's now extremely attacking formation, time waste to the max, tell your players not to counter and hold their shape...you just know the inevitable equaliser in the third minute of stoppage time is coming.

Then after that you're pretty well nailed on to win the next game unless it's against a top 6 side. Ok I'm sure the counter argument will be that IRL teams fighting relegation do this kind of thing, but when you watch your RB lob your own keeper from 30 yards under very little pressure you do start to question these things...

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If you’d like to watch a video about why you create 4 CCC and yet don’t win, here you go. In my save as RC lens, my highest paid player is making less than a million per year, and yet we thumped Man City 3-0 in the champions cup. We were not the better team, we had less CCC, possession, shots and shots on target, and we gave up way more free kicks, and yet, I won. Welcome to football, where the only thing that decides who wins is which goal the ball hit the back of more often.

The game is also very bad at deciding what a CCC is as my center backs almost always have at least a half chance every game and I’ve seen some 1v1’s not get labeled as a CCC.

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On 23/07/2020 at 15:25, Cjthew91 said:

This game is annoying. i don't care what people say but it is. I was playing in the europa league round of 16 with Leicester against Braga, I had 4 clear cut chances throughout the game that were all one on ones and all of them were put wide or hit straight at the keeper. then, Braga get a free kick about 35 yards out, what do they do? they smash it top bins... of course they do. Then, to make thigns even worse tielemans, arguably my best player gets injured and to make things even worse pereira gets sent off. oh yeah, i scored two disallowed goals as well... fyi, yes i did reload the game and go again for the first time ever because that game was an utter joke

You just got FM'ed. 

Happens to all of us at times on the game, happens to teams in real life sometimes as well.

The fact you were in the round of 16 suggests you either won a cup or finished at least top 7 in the previous season, so you have had some success. 

Some games will suck

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I think I've just hit tipping point on this game and I'm done for now.

In my 6th season- first 4 were enjoyable, took my Norwich team to 9th, then 4th, 4th and 2nd. Enjoyable variety of matches, different tactical styles etc etc. However in the 5th season I seemed to hit a point where my team are now considered a big team so now every game is the same- dominate statistically, slog away, maybe break the deadlock with a set piece goal or a 25 yard screamer which opens things up a bit, or not which means a frustrating 0-0 draw or loss to a team that managed 2 shots on target all game. I'm three games into the new season and it is taking hold again- my opponents have managed 9 shots on target and scored 5 goals, I've managed 45 shots on target and also scored 5 goals. I've tried varying tactics, I've tried managing in game, tweaking but it is just an absolute chore at this point- the games I win are more frustrating the fulfilling and the games I lose are smash your laptop level annoying usually. 

My enjoyment has died because I no longer feel immersed. I don't feel like I'm a manager, setting my team up to beat another team- I feel like a video game player trying to find a way to beat the same AI week in week out and it just isn't fun.

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5 hours ago, KingCanary said:

I think I've just hit tipping point on this game and I'm done for now.

In my 6th season- first 4 were enjoyable, took my Norwich team to 9th, then 4th, 4th and 2nd. Enjoyable variety of matches, different tactical styles etc etc. However in the 5th season I seemed to hit a point where my team are now considered a big team so now every game is the same- dominate statistically, slog away, maybe break the deadlock with a set piece goal or a 25 yard screamer which opens things up a bit, or not which means a frustrating 0-0 draw or loss to a team that managed 2 shots on target all game. I'm three games into the new season and it is taking hold again- my opponents have managed 9 shots on target and scored 5 goals, I've managed 45 shots on target and also scored 5 goals. I've tried varying tactics, I've tried managing in game, tweaking but it is just an absolute chore at this point- the games I win are more frustrating the fulfilling and the games I lose are smash your laptop level annoying usually. 

My enjoyment has died because I no longer feel immersed. I don't feel like I'm a manager, setting my team up to beat another team- I feel like a video game player trying to find a way to beat the same AI week in week out and it just isn't fun.

Yeah, i agree something should change in regards to that, when oppositon sets up deep and pass between their back line like barcelona in it's finest Pep days without any composure, concentration and other attributes whatsoever, too little emphasis is put onto individual attributes. But to minimise that happening, (still will happen regardless of what you do, that's why is ME far from perfect) you should add team instruction run at defence, pass into space (even if it seems contradictory), press as much as you can, get aggresive players, change entire starting eleven to surprise the ai, develop a highest possible goalscoring tactic (test it against the same team by reloading and giving it 10 tries to see the average goals scored against the bus, for me it's personally 4-3-1-2 (Two bpd on d, 2 inverted wing backs on s, 2 wingers on a, 1 dlp on s, one am on a, 2 pressing forwards on a and attacking mentality, it seems really unbalanced, but it seems to work against tank parkers), and what seems to help greatly against conceding, is marking the oppositon playmaker and nobody else (i even mark the opposition playmaker with my bpd and it creates no problems whatsoever in defence because i guess it influences the me decision making so i guess his attributes are greatly nerfed when marked by a great bpd, i concede around 4 or 5 goals a season this way)

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10 minutes ago, vukigepard said:

and what seems to help greatly against conceding, is marking the oppositon playmaker and nobody else (i even mark the opposition playmaker with my bpd and it creates no problems whatsoever in defence because i guess it influences the me decision making so i guess his attributes are greatly nerfed when marked by a great bpd

Spot on sir.
I never mark or mark tightly strikers ...instead i cut the supply to them.

From my experience in FM20 if you attack, tackle hard and mark tightly the opposite team's play-maker ....boom.... you are in with a higher chance of winning the game.

Also if you have a great developing and successful team, then the ME changes your status (for example from underdog to favourite etc...) you must buy the necessary players. You have to adapt your squad to match the new ME expectations.....its tough to do and maintain but necessary.

I wish you luck and better results

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On 27/07/2020 at 14:21, vukigepard said:

you should add team instruction run at defence, pass into space (even if it seems contradictory), press as much as you can, get aggresive players, change entire starting eleven to surprise the ai, develop a highest possible goalscoring tactic (test it against the same team by reloading and giving it 10 tries to see the average goals scored against the bus, for me it's personally 4-3-1-2 (Two bpd on d, 2 inverted wing backs on s, 2 wingers on a, 1 dlp on s, one am on a, 2 pressing forwards on a and attacking mentality,

Yes, this is essentially a wide diamond 4-4-2 and it does work well in the current match engine. Similarly, if you move one of those forwards back to AMC in a wide 4-3-2-1 then that also produces a lot more goal variety than in other formations. And then the biggest advantage of using wingers and inverted wingbacks is that your crosses are delivered by players who have better crossing attributes than what you can typically find in a wingback. In more conventional modern formations with inside forwards and wingbacks, you often end up with wingbacks crossing 10+ times a match and connecting on maybe 1-2 of them that are usually wasted with headers over the bar.

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23 hours ago, Overmars said:

Yes, this is essentially a wide diamond 4-4-2 and it does work well in the current match engine. Similarly, if you move one of those forwards back to AMC in a wide 4-3-2-1 then that also produces a lot more goal variety than in other formations. And then the biggest advantage of using wingers and inverted wingbacks is that your crosses are delivered by players who have better crossing attributes than what you can typically find in a wingback. In more conventional modern formations with inside forwards and wingbacks, you often end up with wingbacks crossing 10+ times a match and connecting on maybe 1-2 of them that are usually wasted with headers over the bar.

I agree, also, if you train your wingers as wbl/wbr and you set them up as complete wingbacks they will do wonders, score and assist really a lot

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Today I lost to relegation threatened Lens three days after a midweek Champions League beatdown of Bayern Munich. What is annoying is that I have no liquor in the house.

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4 hours ago, vukigepard said:

I agree, also, if you train your wingers as wbl/wbr and you set them up as complete wingbacks they will do wonders, score and assist really a lot

I do this, works brilliantly.

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