Do staff influence players?

[petertr]

As far as I know, only players' personalities mix with eachother and cause personalities to change, especially so in Mentoring groups.

But it occurred to me that if all my coaches, assistants and managers across all 3 squads had great personalities, it could have an effect.

 

Especially on the U18 squad where other players have little to no impact on eachother.  Surely having ~8 staff who are model citizens (for example) has some effect on these kids?

 

Does anyone know?

[Baodan]

Youth Teams - Yes

Senior Teams - No

[HUNT3R]

6 minutes ago, Baodan said:

Youth Teams - Yes

Senior Teams - No

Do you have a link that shows this to be true? Training isn't my strongest area, but as far as I'm aware, other than your HoYD influencing juniors (before and up to intake day), there's no other influence of Personality. I'm happy to be proven wrong, of course.

[petertr]

1 hour ago, Baodan said:

Youth Teams - Yes

Senior Teams - No

This is what I hoped to find by posting this.   Is there anything that backs this up?

You have to think that a 16 year old would be influenced by a manager an Assman and 6 coaches more than they'd be influenced by the other players.

[Baodan]

Regarding youth players:

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Baodan

[HUNT3R]

Just now, Baodan said:

Regarding youth players:

 

Yeah, but that mentions their ability and 'style' of the 'freak' players only. And for that we know JPP and WWY affects this. Though Seb never mentioned JPA, the game lists that as a crucial attribute, so that is probably one as well.

I've only seen quotes regarding Personality where the HoYD is mentioned, but never that it includes all staff. Again, I may be wrong, but I haven't seen any post that indicates this.

 

[Zemahh]

@Seb Wassell Is the above also true for coaches, meaning their personalities can have an influence on players?

Was always under the impression that was the case.

[herne79]

6 minutes ago, Baodan said:

Regarding youth players:

 

That's a little outdated and concerns creating newgens, not personality development once the young players are actually at the club and training, which is what the OP is asking.

As far as I'm aware, staff personality doesn't influence player personality once a player is actually at the club - only during newgen "creation".  However before anything is taken as gospel this is probably one for @Seb Wassell to confirm - does staff personality influence young players once they are actually at the club and training?  @petertr wait for Seb's confirmation .

2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

I've only seen quotes regarding Personality where the HoYD is mentioned, but never that it includes all staff. Again, I may be wrong, but I haven't seen any post that indicates this.

For the creation of newgens other staff can influence personality, however HoYD influence is far greater than anyone else (double the influence iirc).  Seb's confirmed that before.

[HUNT3R]

1 hour ago, herne79 said:

For the creation of newgens other staff can influence personality, however HoYD influence is far greater than anyone else (double the influence iirc).  Seb's confirmed that before.

Cheers, Herne.  

That I know, yes, about the HoYD's affect on player ability being doubled. Didn't know it extended to Personality as well. Good to know.

[petertr]

Its interesting that nobody is sure on this one.  I'd imagined it would be well-known.

If the coaches personalities don't affect young players, I wonder what the point of their personality being represented in the game is?

[Spanner]

Hi all,

I am a strong believer in coaches and often say they are the un-sung and forgotten heros of the CM/FM world.

Regarding your question about coaches/staff and their influence, yes is the short answer.

Staff is a very big area because you have many different staff roles but mostly coaches make up the majority of staff positions.

Coaches affect performance levels and results. In terms of affecting the characteristics of a player, then I would have to say, No for the senior squad and not really for youth players.

However, this is only from my experience.

A player’s character is irrelevant to me. I just want winners on the pitch for game day. Away from that they can do what they want. My team is full of different characters but they all love to win.

Having all your coaches and staff (physios, DoF, HoYD etc..) aligned to your playing style and philosophy is key for a winning system but as to player characteristics that is very much open to debate. 
I have never really followed a players character development before. 

Also you don’t need a team of ‘the same characters’ ......you need a team of winners. And winners can be found in the players stats.

[petertr]

11 hours ago, Spanner said:

Also you don’t need a team of ‘the same characters’ ......you need a team of winners. And winners can be found in the players stats.

I don't really want this to go "off topic" so I'll only reply to this bit.  By no means do I want a team of all the same personality.  But I also don't want unprofessional players, or players who don't want to push themselves to meet their PA.

 

I guess everyone has their own experience of their saves, but it would be nice to get a nod from SI as to whether personalities of staff affect players in the same way as other players affect eachother.  It makes sense to me that they would, but if the code isn't in the game, I'd like to know.

Its a little bit catch 22 - it would be better to mentor young players straight away and unlock their potential.  But its also better for them to be with the U18 squad and train with those coaches that I've specifically picked as being good with young players.  So a secondary solution like U18 staff personalities would work nicely.

In finding out the answer, it means the difference between hiring the best attributes for a coaching staff - vs - hiring ever-so-slightly less than the best attributes, but with personalities that will have a long term positive effect on younger players (I'm not talking about newgens before youth intake day - @Seb Wassell has been pretty clear on that already and there are countless threads discussing it)

[metallimuse]

There's a few threads in the career section which heavily go through this and the consensus seems to be that it does have an effect, more specifically in terms of getting the most swift CA increases for your youngsters.

 

[Spanner]

9 hours ago, petertr said:

I don't really want this to go "off topic" so I'll only reply to this bit.  By no means do I want a team of all the same personality.  But I also don't want unprofessional players, or players who don't want to push themselves to meet their PA.

 

I guess everyone has their own experience of their saves, but it would be nice to get a nod from SI as to whether personalities of staff affect players in the same way as other players affect eachother.  It makes sense to me that they would, but if the code isn't in the game, I'd like to know.

Its a little bit catch 22 - it would be better to mentor young players straight away and unlock their potential.  But its also better for them to be with the U18 squad and train with those coaches that I've specifically picked as being good with young players.  So a secondary solution like U18 staff personalities would work nicely.

In finding out the answer, it means the difference between hiring the best attributes for a coaching staff - vs - hiring ever-so-slightly less than the best attributes, but with personalities that will have a long term positive effect on younger players (I'm not talking about newgens before youth intake day - @Seb Wassell has been pretty clear on that already and there are countless threads discussing it)

i can appreciate that my last-line statment was perhaps 'not applicabale' so i hold my hands-up...apologies. 

the rest is very relevant and i hope it helped. Players are the most important commidity in the FM games and i think your catch 22 comment is the perfect summary to your original question. 

[metallimuse]

On 15/07/2020 at 21:35, Spanner said:

A player’s character is irrelevant to me. I just want winners on the pitch for game day. Away from that they can do what they want. My team is full of different characters but they all love to win.

A players character matters hugely with player development though, certain characters are limited to what stats they can achieve.

A 'casual' personality for example will not get beyond a determination of 9 or professionalism of 4 so that's important to know. Character is very important when developing young teams and clubs DNA and even your tactics of how you want to go about playing.

[petertr]

On 15/07/2020 at 10:22, Zemahh said:

@Seb Wassell Is the above also true for coaches, meaning their personalities can have an influence on players?

Was always under the impression that was the case.

I've also replied direct to his tweet.  Fingers Crossed for a reply

[Spanner]

9 hours ago, metallimuse said:

A players character matters hugely with player development though, certain characters are limited to what stats they can achieve.

A 'casual' personality for example will not get beyond a determination of 9 or professionalism of 4 so that's important to know. Character is very important when developing young teams and clubs DNA and even your tactics of how you want to go about playing.

I am very sorry but I have to politely disagree with your post.....

A players character matters hugely with player development though, certain characters are limited to what stats they can achieve.

A 'casual' personality for example will not get beyond a determination of 9 or professionalism of 4 so that's important to know. Character is very important when developing young teams and clubs DNA and even your tactics of how you want to go about playing.

 

Please see below a list of Man United younger or youth players who are pushing for a 1^st team place \ promotion.
I have been in-charge for 4 season from the beginning. My club save is 4 seasons complete.

Their player characteristics are in (brackets).

Also let me be clear, as soon as I took control of Man United, I changed a lot of staff in order to instil the playing style I wished to have.
This was across all the teams…. 1^st , u23s and u18s plus my physios were highly motivated and good at their jobs. It was a complete re-vamp.

U18s.

1.       Hannibal Mejbri (ambitious) ...16 years old…made it and was pushing for a 1st  team place after 3.5 seasons. An epic player and a real gem.

2.       Dillon Hoogewerf (Determind) … never made an impact and was released.

 

U23s

1.       James Gardner (driven) ….never made it at the elite level, not even close.

2.       Angel Gomes (Fairly ambitious) … was a real gem, offered and signed a new contract and then he had a cruciate knee injury. He was never the same again. Such a shame!..i really believe he could have made it...big time.

3.       Timothy Fosu-Mensah (Fairly determind) … never made it at the top level.

4.       Dylan Levitt (Blanaced) – Great potential but his AMC position did not fit with my style of play.

5.       Dean Henderson (Fairly determind) … He played many games and was good but his agent was a problem so he was sold due to his demands.

6.       Tahith Chong (resolute) … Played a lot but was hot and cold. Not consistent enough at the top level. Sold after a good run in the 1^st team.

7.       Scott McTominay (Professional) …the same as Tanith Chong. Sold.

8.       Axel tuanzebe (professional) … at the very top (Europe elite level) he was terrible and he was sold.

9.       Brandon Williams (driven) … Had a good run in the 1^st team but never developed.

10.   Diogo Dalot (spirited) … Is still will the 1^st team after 4 season and is a very capable 2^nd choice full back who can play both sides. He has impressed and been offered a contract re-newal.

 So as I previously said.

Youth development is open to interpretation.
A Players Character is open to debate.
....For me a players character means nothing and has no influence on how I pick a player.  
Man United have a great academy and very good coaches but only 1 or 2 players can make it and stay in the 1^st team.

Also I strongly believe that coaches are under-valued and very very very important when implanting your DNA / playing style on a club.
I have seen nothing to say that a players character correlates to helping him develop or become successful.
At Man United (the most extreme test) the results are very varied.

I eagerly await your reply,
Spanner

[yolixeya]

13 hours ago, Spanner said:

Youth development is open to interpretation.
A Players Character is open to debate.
....For me a players character means nothing and has no influence on how I pick a player.  

I agree with you partially. I acutally think personalities are very important and having some of the bad personalities can hurt player development or make them troublemakers in the squad. But I also think that peaople overestimate importance of personalities. What matters is that you don't have really bad ones in you squad but even some really bad ones can be fine. I don't care if a player is mercenary because I can still profit when I sell him. I never had any issue with balanced or similar personalities reaching their PA or winning titles with those kind of players. Yet people thing that only model citizen, professional, resolute, driven etc, can reach those levels. It's not true at all. I think that is mainly because of the old exploitable tutoring system and players are still unable to break away from that way of playing where they need to have the squad of perfectionist personalties.

[petertr]

On 18/07/2020 at 10:56, yolixeya said:

I agree with you partially. I acutally think personalities are very important and having some of the bad personalities can hurt player development or make them troublemakers in the squad. But I also think that peaople overestimate importance of personalities. What matters is that you don't have really bad ones in you squad but even some really bad ones can be fine. I don't care if a player is mercenary because I can still profit when I sell him. I never had any issue with balanced or similar personalities reaching their PA or winning titles with those kind of players. Yet people thing that only model citizen, professional, resolute, driven etc, can reach those levels. It's not true at all. I think that is mainly because of the old exploitable tutoring system and players are still unable to break away from that way of playing where they need to have the squad of perfectionist personalties.

I never played the old games with tutoring, so I'm for sure not stuck in that mindset. This is my first FM game ever.  Although I did play every single CM game (except the horrific non-SI one of course).

 

It does make sense that a player with good personal traits will - on average - have more chance to meet their potential than someone who doesn't  That's just the law of averages.  My post is merely a question about how the game works.  I think that's a fair thing to ask for, no?

[yolixeya]

26 minutes ago, petertr said:

My post is merely a question about how the game works.  I think that's a fair thing to ask for, no?

I wasn't referring specificaly to you. I just think in general people are focused too much on personalites. With the old tutoring system, you could tutor a 16 year old  for 6 months and he could become perfectionist or model citizen in that short period of time. It was much faster and you could have a whole squad of 18 year olds with great personalities.

36 minutes ago, petertr said:

It does make sense that a player with good personal traits will - on average - have more chance to meet their potential than someone who doesn't  That's just the law of averages.

Of course, and you should focus on them or try to mentor players to get better personalities. But if you discard or omit players just because they don't have great personality, you can limit your self in the transfer market. Those players can be stars too.

[s0ni42]

The CA/PA is ultimately the biggest factor in whether or not a player will be successful. It is rooted in fact that players with higher Ambition, Determination, and Professionalism will consistently train and improve at a greater rate. That doesn't mean that a 100 PA player the is Model Citizen will captain the World Cup, but he is more likely to reach his full potential. On the contrary, it doesn't mean that a Fickle player with 200 PA is going to peak at non-league football. I am guilty of getting wrapped up in personality, but the rationale is due to the objective fact that players with higher Ambition, Determination, and Professionalism are more likely to reach their top potential. 

I am under the impression that coaches do not influence personality in any way. Similar to above, higher quality coaches are more likely to extract the maximum training impact on a player based on the player's ability and personality. So coaches are important, no doubt, I don't believe their impact will be seen directly in the player's personality. 

[Seb Wassell]

On 15/07/2020 at 10:23, herne79 said:

As far as I'm aware, staff personality doesn't influence player personality once a player is actually at the club - only during newgen "creation".  However before anything is taken as gospel this is probably one for @Seb Wassell to confirm - does staff personality influence young players once they are actually at the club and training?  @petertr wait for Seb's confirmation .

Staff do not influence the personality of a player in training. Players influence players, guided (but not exclusively) by mentoring.

[petertr]

11 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

Staff do not influence the personality of a player in training. Players influence players, guided (but not exclusively) by mentoring.

Thanks Seb, much appreciated.

[Spanner]

On 15/07/2020 at 22:35, Spanner said:

Coaches affect performance levels and results. In terms of affecting the characteristics of a player, then I would have to say, No for the senior squad and not really for youth players.

However, this is only from my experience.

Thank you to Seb Wallace for confirming that my experience, stated in a previous comment, is aligned to how the game is created.
Very pleasing to know.

[ScoreMore (Mico)]

On 27/07/2020 at 00:10, Seb Wassell said:

Staff do not influence the personality of a player in training. Players influence players, guided (but not exclusively) by mentoring.

Do youth coaches influence newgen personalites (before they appear in the game) though? Thank you @Seb Wassell