Space Orientated Defense

[Nol1968]

I started playing Football Manager in December, so I guess I'm pretty new. I have a "playing philosophy" I work toward in my saves, in summary I like highly attacking overlapping Fullbacks/Wingbacks, lots of width to stretch the opposition, a back three who are all BPDs sometimes with a Libero, and a space-orientated defensive block (low pressing urgency). I have had two main saves with Man United, starting on my third. I have won the PL in my second season both times, and have implemented all of my checkpoints into my team with the exception of the last. I seem to only be successful with a tactic that presses urgently. Any tips for a high/mid block tactic? I know BWM often compromise these systems like an Anchorman can compromise a pressing system, but any tips for other positions? Offsides trap works like a charm with a high(er) line of engagement, can that be compromised with a high line of defense and a low line of engagement?

Complex prompt, but I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem

Edited June 17, 2020 by Nol1968

[Experienced Defender]

Can you post a screenshot of the tactic for a start? Because any general tips can easily be misleading, given that tactical elements never work in isolation from one another. 

[Starsurfer]

8 hours ago, Nol1968 said:

I started playing Football Manager in December, so I guess I'm pretty new. I have a "playing philosophy" I work toward in my saves, in summary I like highly attacking overlapping Fullbacks/Wingbacks, lots of width to stretch the opposition, a back three who are all BPDs sometimes with a Libero, and a space-orientated defensive block (low pressing urgency). I have had two main saves with Man United, starting on my third. I have won the PL in my second season both times, and have implemented all of my checkpoints into my team with the exception of the last. I seem to only be successful with a tactic that presses urgently. Any tips for a high/mid block tactic? I know BWM often compromise these systems like an Anchorman can compromise a pressing system, but any tips for other positions? Offsides trap works like a charm with a high(er) line of engagement, can that be compromised with a high line of defense and a low line of engagement?

Complex prompt, but I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem

If I understand your post correctly, you wish to play low pressing urgency on a high/mid defensive block. I'm afraid this is going to be very challenging. Because IMHO this will lead to opponents often overrunning your defensive line  with counterattacks and over the top balls from deep.

[Prepper_Jack]

11 hours ago, Starsurfer said:

If I understand your post correctly, you wish to play low pressing urgency on a high/mid defensive block. I'm afraid this is going to be very challenging. Because IMHO this will lead to opponents often overrunning your defensive line  with counterattacks and over the top balls from deep.

Well, this can be mitigated to some extent through player instructions. Still not sure if it's a wise idea, as mark/block seems to work spottily in opposition territory at the moment. Thought the devs said something about that recently, and that they were looking at it.

[Nol1968]

18 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Can you post a screenshot of the tactic for a start? Because any general tips can easily be misleading, given that tactical elements never work in isolation from one another. 

Yes sorry above are my two primary tactics. I was in the top four until recently I begun to bring my line of engagement down and my pressing urgency down, both to work toward my playing ideas and coinciding with injuries. This has not been successful. Earlier in the season I had more of a 5-4-1 with Lindelof as a Libero which surprisingly worked very well, although that's hard to continue with midfielders who are either very deep and defensive (tonali, Mctominay) or attacking (Pogba and Fernandes). In the Europa League I used Garner and Mctominay as a Carrellio and BWM infront of the Libero, worked pretty well.

Also I'm proud of my transfers, all changes were in one window but I'm sure you've all done better.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Nol1968

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, Nol1968 said:

There is no need to use 2 so different formations - one (4123 wide) that is optimally balanced and the other (5122) that is bottom-heavy and thus essentially suited to defensive styles of football. These 2 systems are not analogous, so using them for one same team is not a good idea IMHO. And given that you manage a top team (Man Utd), I would advise you to discard the 5122 and stick to the 4123.

A couple of quick tips:

- your tactic is extremely aggressive in terms of defending, which does not only carries needlessly high defensive risk(s) but also reduces the space for your forwards to potentially take advantage of

- then you play your lone striker in the AF role, which benefits precisely from the space which you are denying to him by the already mentioned extremely aggressive manner of defending

- CWB is a nice role (provided you have the right player), but it makes a lot more sense - and is more effective - in narrow systems (i.e. when there isn't another wide player on the flank)

Now questions:

1. What's your exact reasoning behind using 2 playmakers (DLP and AP) so close to each other?

2. The same question regarding 2 BPDs (especially in the context of 2 PMs in front of them)?

3. Which specific style of football are you looking to play (patient possession, progressive possession, fast attack, methodical attack or something else)?

[Nol1968]

47 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

There is no need to use 2 so different formations - one (4123 wide) that is optimally balanced and the other (5122) that is bottom-heavy and thus essentially suited to defensive styles of football. These 2 systems are not analogous, so using them for one same team is not a good idea IMHO. And given that you manage a top team (Man Utd), I would advise you to discard the 5122 and stick to the 4123.

A couple of quick tips:

- your tactic is extremely aggressive in terms of defending, which does not only carries needlessly high defensive risk(s) but also reduces the space for your forwards to potentially take advantage of

- then you play your lone striker in the AF role, which benefits precisely from the space which you are denying to him by the already mentioned extremely aggressive manner of defending

- CWB is a nice role (provided you have the right player), but it makes a lot more sense - and is more effective - in narrow systems (i.e. when there isn't another wide player on the flank)

Now questions:

1. What's your exact reasoning behind using 2 playmakers (DLP and AP) so close to each other?

2. The same question regarding 2 BPDs (especially in the context of 2 PMs in front of them)?

3. Which specific style of football are you looking to play (patient possession, progressive possession, fast attack, methodical attack or something else)?

Thank you. Some of these points are rather unique to this save (first time I've used both AP and DP so close) and some of I've tried and tested in previous saves with success (two or more BPDs, CWBs) .

With the CWB I find that they benefit more from having another wide player to create space for them (overlap, underlap, etc). An Inverted winger opens up for the overlap and the CWBs unpredictability can be lethal in chance creation from crosses. Alex Telles has done brilliantly for my before, assists from the byline or wide near the touch line are common. All my fullbacks/wingbacks are being trained to hug the touchline.

As for the aggressive defending, this is soley due to the fact that when I try to play a more reserved defensive style (which I prefer) I concede way more, whenever I attempt that midblock with standard pressing instead of all out extremely urgent, I go on a losing streak. Its not meant to be a complete fix but I bought Ndidi in this January (or fifteen minutes ago) to use as a defensive mid to have a player more space-oriented.

As for perferred style? In possession a balanced, quicker possession side who can be direct, uses width. Pretty balanced but I would love some speed on the counter.

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Nol1968

[Experienced Defender]

4 minutes ago, Nol1968 said:

With the CWB I find that they benefit more from having another wide player to create space for them (overlap, underlap, etc). An Inverted winger opens up for the overlap and the CWBs unpredictability can be lethal in chance creation from crosses. Alex Telles has done brilliantly for my before, assists from the byline or wide near the touch line are common. All my fullbacks/wingbacks are being trained to hug the touchline

Okay, if it works, then stick to it and ignore my previous comment   

 

6 minutes ago, Nol1968 said:

As for the aggressive defending, this is soley due to the fact that when I try to play a more reserved defensive style (which I prefer) I concede way more, whenever I attempt that midblock with standard pressing instead of all out extremely urgent, I go on a losing streak

Well, there are not just extremes. There are also nuances in between. The most important thing in any tactic is - balance  

Keep also in mind that the team mentality automatically affects all other instructions and that your manner of defending and your attacking style are interrelated. 

10 minutes ago, Nol1968 said:

As for perferred style? In possession a balanced, quicker possession side who can be direct, uses width. Pretty balanced but I would love some speed on the counter

Well, that does not really sound like a precise description of a playing style.