Fm 2020 A Bit Too Easy?

[Mosalahman]

I used to play FM on PC but of recent I haven't really had the time/opportunity to game on Consoles or PC and mobile felt like a more convenient option. 

I started my first season, signed Emre Can, Havertz and Takumi Minamino, sold Mata, Fred and Matic and brought in the likes of Greenwood (Who is an unbelievably good wonderkid) and Angel Gomes. Went the entire season unbeaten while the likes of Liverpool and Man City always had dressing room unrest, multiple players putting in transfer requests, Sane and Sterling were both unsettled (AT THE SAME TIME) with Sane "having no faith in his manager" who happens to be Pep Guardiola. Liverpool commonly played 3 5 2 sometimes with both Salah and Mane on the bench. 

So my so called competitors remained in disarray meanwhile the likes of Rashford now view me as a mentor. It just feels way too easy

[ElliottMS]

Fmm is deliberately has more of an arcade feel to it. Its meant to be more accessible. If you're a veteran of the full game, and picking a decent side (I'll say that through gritted teeth), its not surprising it didn't offer much of a challenge.

[Mosalahman]

I get it trying to be more accessible but surely they could improve on the AI of the opposition managers, the "top renowned" ones at least

[Lillywhite Dean]

On 13/06/2020 at 21:44, Mosalahman said:

I used to play FM on PC but of recent I haven't really had the time/opportunity to game on Consoles or PC and mobile felt like a more convenient option. 

I started my first season, signed Emre Can, Havertz and Takumi Minamino, sold Mata, Fred and Matic and brought in the likes of Greenwood (Who is an unbelievably good wonderkid) and Angel Gomes. Went the entire season unbeaten while the likes of Liverpool and Man City always had dressing room unrest, multiple players putting in transfer requests, Sane and Sterling were both unsettled (AT THE SAME TIME) with Sane "having no faith in his manager" who happens to be Pep Guardiola. Liverpool commonly played 3 5 2 sometimes with both Salah and Mane on the bench. 

So my so called competitors remained in disarray meanwhile the likes of Rashford now view me as a mentor. It just feels way too easy

It is too easy. FMM always has been. I have posted so many comments on this subject and have asked for the game to become more difficult or for there to a difficulty option, or for improvements to the AI. Usually play it for six months and then stop and wait for the next series to come out in the hope that it offers more of a challenge.

[Red United]

Took over United 18 months into my first game, we were 8th. By the end of the season i had won the champions league and the following season i won the league unbeaten and won the treble. Way too easy.

[passenger58]

I was one of the naysayers but I've come round to this way of thinking recently.

Started a Bilbao save a few weeks back and for the additional challenge I decided to ONLY use and sign players that had Athletic Bilbao as their favoured club. As you can imagine that leaves me with a very limited pool of players.

Came 6th in first season, won La Liga the second, and retained it the third along with winning the CL.

As far as challenges go I thought this was a pretty tough one. Dunno how much tougher I can try and make it for myself.

. 

Edited June 29, 2020 by passenger58

[Footix]

2 hours ago, passenger58 said:

Dunno how much tougher I can try and make it for myself.

Let me create your tactic.

Everybody's saying this game is so easy. I don't feel that way, at all. One user sent me instructions on how to win, and true enough, when I followed his instructions to the letter I started winning. But that didn't feel like me playing. So I try to build my own tactics and teams - and fail. Over and over and over. 

 

Here's something I could come up with:

        CF

W                 IF

    BBM CM

        DLP

FB CD CD WB

         GK

 

Attacking, balanced width, normal tempo, balanced creative freedom

Balanced defensive line, own half press, normal tackling, offside trap on

 Short passing, mixed passing focus, short GK distribution

 

I don't see why this would play like a train wreck, but rest assured, it does. 

[TheHurricane]

Which engine and tactics do you use?

Im using the OME and am not finding it to easy at all especially since the last update which seems to have stopped all my tactics from working.

[dompeppe]

Hi all. 
I agree with much written above, and like passenger58 have my own ways of making the game more competitive. Definitely see Lillywhite Dean’s point of view. But I still love it and play too much. Can I make some points:

- I’m a Spurs fan but never take control of them. Any half decent team is too easy, as the Man Utd users above have said. There’s still a challenge in taking a **** team with no money and gradually building them up, finding those hidden gems (silvere Ganvoula anybody?!?). Never use sugar daddy, always use attribute masking  
- do you think the injuries are more frequent / realistic in FMM20? This seems to be better than earlier versions. I keep my physios rubbish on purpose to make it more difficult. 
- I use a min release fee in every contract, and set at a realistic level    This allows a bit more realistic poaching of my players by bigger clubs if I’m doing well. 

If any developers ever read this: couldn’t we set a difficulty level at the start of the save (expert vs normal) that would increase injuries, big club poaching, unhappy player tantrums etc?

[TonyGunk]

Agree it can be too easy if you select a top club.

But there are ways to make it more challenging; start with a smaller team with no transfer budget or even start unemployed with minimal reputation and see what jobs come up.

[passenger58]

For me, the sea change was when I started changing my tactics to suit the opposition before each game. Previously I'd always use the same formation and results would be so inconsistent. Now I take note of the opposition scouting report before each game and set up accordingly. For example, if my opponent is playing 5-3-2, I'll make sure to start with both full backs and wingers (so as to double up on their wing backs), and play wide and down the flanks. It's worked wonders. 

That was a big thing and also the fact I've started taking complete control of the training for my club. That includes training up my players in as many positions as possible (to maximise flexibility) as well as setting their attribute training too. 

Moral of the story is you get what you put in. I've put in hundreds of hours into this game so I guess it would make sense that I'd get better with time. Maybe I need a new game. 😉 

[Lillywhite Dean]

6 hours ago, dompeppe said:

If any developers ever read this: couldn’t we set a difficulty level at the start of the save (expert vs normal) that would increase injuries, big club poaching, unhappy player tantrums etc?

I have made similar suggestions before but it isn't something SI want to do. They believe things like manager reputation, badges and season's objectives are the way to make the game more challenging.

I don't visit this forum that often these days as I have lost interest in playing the game. I have been a regular player buying FMM every year for the past ...... well since it first came out (I also had it on PSP).  This is the first time where I feel utterly indifferent to it now and I'm no longer excited by the next release of FMM. Don't get me wrong, it is a wonderfully crafted game and nothing comes close to it. But I guess when you've been playing it for as long as I have, it will remain easy unless radical changes are made to either the games difficulty or to the games AI so that it can remain more competitive.

[passenger58]

I guess, like you say, it will come from all the time spent playing the game. You end up learning all the subtle nuances and intricacies that help you succeed. An inexperienced player would not know this. 

I don't know how exactly they would make it harder. I wouldn't want them to artificially make teams stronger than they are. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by passenger58

[Mosalahman]

10 hours ago, passenger58 said:

I guess, like you say, it will come from all the time spent playing the game. You end up learning all the subtle nuances and intricacies that help you succeed. An inexperienced player would not know this. 

I don't know how exactly they would make it harder. I wouldn't want them to artificially make teams stronger than they are. 

Well Klopp and Guardiola not losing the dressing room every few days would be a start

[lcutini]

For me it comes down to smarter AI teams. How many times do you see AI teams sign a player they don’t need for big money and play him two times in a season? Or how about when a team starts the Champions League semi-final with a 17 year old, one star striker up top? The ineptitude of the AI teams makes it so that it almost doesn’t matter which transfers you make or tactics you use. Just make a couple smart transfers and use a tactic that makes sense and let the failure of AI teams do the rest for you. 

Edited July 1, 2020 by lcutini

[TonyGunk]

16 hours ago, lcutini said:

For me it comes down to smarter AI teams. How many times do you see AI teams sign a player they don’t need for big money and play him two times in a season? Or how about when a team starts the Champions League semi-final with a 17 year old, one star striker up top? The ineptitude of the AI teams makes it so that it almost doesn’t matter which transfers you make or tactics you use. Just make a couple smart transfers and use a tactic that makes sense and let the failure of AI teams do the rest for you. 

Yeah that happens quite a lot. See it with goalkeepers... Chelsea will spend 50mil plus on a GK then never play him. Have seen it with Barcelona too.

When I sell a player at a reasonable amount, I always check in on them towards the end of the season to see if they turned out to be a good purchase for that club... a lot of the time they haven't been played at all.

[passenger58]

2 hours ago, TonyGunk said:

Yeah that happens quite a lot. See it with goalkeepers... Chelsea will spend 50mil plus on a GK then never play him. Have seen it with Barcelona too.

When I sell a player at a reasonable amount, I always check in on them towards the end of the season to see if they turned out to be a good purchase for that club... a lot of the time they haven't been played at all.

Agree with this. In my Bilbao save, Real Madrid bought Allison for £83m and played him 5 times that season with Courtois starting most games.

Liverpool replaced him with a Greek goalkeeper from Benfica but played Adrian most games.

These strange transfer decisions have a big detrimental effect on our competition over time by weakening them overall, hence making the game less of a challenge.

Edited July 2, 2020 by passenger58

[Lillywhite Dean]

On 01/07/2020 at 16:42, lcutini said:

For me it comes down to smarter AI teams. How many times do you see AI teams sign a player they don’t need for big money and play him two times in a season? Or how about when a team starts the Champions League semi-final with a 17 year old, one star striker up top? The ineptitude of the AI teams makes it so that it almost doesn’t matter which transfers you make or tactics you use. Just make a couple smart transfers and use a tactic that makes sense and let the failure of AI teams do the rest for you. 

Yes that's exactly the point I was making about more competitive AI teams but "smarter" is they correct word. It comes down to team selection, transfer strategy and adapting tactics during the game. 

A few examples come to mind:

• You see a lot of depleted squads after 5-10 seasons where the AI hasn't adequately replaced ageing players.
• You see a lot of AI teams signing players in positions that are unnecessary e.g. signing forwards when they only have one GK.
• You see the super clubs acquiring world class players and then not playing them.
• You see AI teams start a match with the 'overload' tactic and then moving to 'Defensive' or 'Contain' when they're chasing a goal with 10 minutes left.
• You see AI teams select players out of position when they have natural alternatives on the bench e.g. play a right footed winger as LB when a LB is actually on the bench.
• You see AI teams select unfit players for matches when fit players are available.

If SI could improve the AI on the above, maybe the game would be more challenging.

[Zoot]

I give up on the game 2 weeks ago. I tooK Panathinaikos from Greece because of their EURO ban. Within 3 seasons i made only 2 transfers ( free agents) and i won Greek championship 3 times, greek cup 2 times and as soon as i qualify for champions league in after my second season i won CL in my 3rd season with ease. All that with only 2 free agent signing. 

The game lost all challenge to me.

Before that i play Bilbao for 10 seasons winning 10 spanish titles and 9 champions league all that by only signing U18 basque players and selling every player as soon as they are 27 years old.

Before that without any transfer i took sunderland from league 1 to winning premier league in 3 seasons.

Guess next few years i will not buy the game untill it becomes challenging.

 

[dompeppe]

Hi @Marc Vaughan And @Alari Naylor

Could SI look at this thread? We love this game but it’s disappointing when it’s unrealistically too easy. Some of the suggestions seem good and do-able?

Thanks

Dominic

[Marc Vaughan]

SI are like Santa Claus, we're always watching ... (but we don't always comment publicly on our plans) ...

[dompeppe]

Ha! Thanks.

An example: I just got promoted, my striker was named in world’s best team after 1 yr, and no-one tried to buy him despite me setting buyout clause of 20mill. 
To be fair, he is a bit of a goal scoring donkey. Like Shaun goater or Michael ricketts. 
D

[Vane]

Yeah, there’s been a lot of talk down the years about the difficulty of FMM. The FMM program isn’t complex enough to create a genuine challenging AI for the veteran player.  The AI has to make what we’d regard as sensible decisions for every club and international team in the game both in playable and non playable leagues, as well as manage all the player hopes, fears and desires. That’s a huge task for any computing device. I’ve always thought that SI fudges the difficulty of the PC game by making the players more flaky but as you can see on YouTube, the veteran vloggers very quickly get to grips with every new version of FM PC.

I remember Marc saying years ago that for FMM they deliberately limit the amount of processing power used as well as the time taken to process the game, so people can have decent play in the go without draining their battery in a couple of hours.

Some of the improvements people have already mentioned will help a bit but unless you’re a newbie don’t expect to struggle taking a middling top division side to domestic and UCL glory within a few seasons.