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toby14

Anyone else experiencing this?

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I concede a ridiculous amount of goals from free kicks getting clipped into the box. I have set up my set pieces many different ways, no matter how I set up, I concede tons and tons of goals from free kicks into the box. 
 

Very infuriating, anyone else experiencing this?! 

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Yep this years Fm is called "Setpiece FM 20". It happens why to much. A lot of matches i just see only goals from set pieces like this. I score more from it though but yeah im afraid you can't do anything about somehow. 

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SI have stated there are some issues with it, so it's not something that can be eliminated completely, but it's possible to negate it somewhat by tweaking your set piece instructions for free kicks.

I've tweaked for a bit to suit my team and I conceded very few last season:

4a67CJV.png

1 corner and 3 freekicks in 33 games. So I'd suggest to experiment and see how the freekicks are conceded (back post, 6 yard box, etc) and see if you can tweak it.

Also if your players are losing duels a lot, perhaps the players in those positions are not good in duels, such as a short DM covering a targeted area. Or, you just have too few tall and strong players in general.

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29 minutes ago, toby14 said:

I concede a ridiculous amount of goals from free kicks getting clipped into the box. I have set up my set pieces many different ways, no matter how I set up, I concede tons and tons of goals from free kicks into the box. 
 

Very infuriating, anyone else experiencing this?! 

Yes, many are. See below a recent topic I created on the issue (would ignore the posters who do nothing but defend the ME/SI till their last breathe & bang on about the player needing to tweak their routines; sheer number of people complaining about this issue shows there is something fundamentally wrong). ME is poor in general but set peices are something else for me.

 

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5 minutes ago, Lvpool said:

Yes, many are. See below a recent topic I created on the issue (would ignore the posters who do nothing but defend the ME/SI till their last breathe & bang on about the player needing to tweak their routines; sheer number of people complaining about this issue shows there is something fundamentally wrong). ME is poor in general but set peices are something else for me.

Still waiting for your reply in there, or I did I confuse you with proven facts?

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What's worse is that the game is on its 4th patch with issues like this...& there will be no further patches. Hence I'm not playing the game anymore & will not be buying FM21 unless the reviews on the ME are stellar

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1 minute ago, XaW said:

Still waiting for your reply in there, or I did I confuse you with proven facts?

Topics on how poor set peices are popping up on a daily basis. That should tell you all you need to know

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6 minutes ago, Lvpool said:

Topics on how poor set peices are popping up on a daily basis. That should tell you all you need to know

Still deflecting I see.

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The main reason I don't play it . Gone back to previous versions 

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Posted (edited)

Looking at set piece Goals in isolation is useless.


Arguably FM should have far more set piece Goals, as it had (far) more shots (pressured headers et all) from the set piece for ages. Keep throwing a dice just long enough, and you will see it hitting the string of sixes just often enough… Balancing Goals without looking at the actual shots is useless. Show me an FM match in any recent Iteration such as this, where even against a Team parking the bus, the attacking side has the lionshare of its shots actually from open play… just one.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1190196/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2017-2018-Liverpool-Burnley
https://understat.com/match/7162


https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1388268/MatchReport/Germany-Bundesliga-2019-2020-Bayern-Munich-Fortuna-Duesseldorf
https://understat.com/match/12655


https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1388416/MatchReport/Germany-Bundesliga-2019-2020-Mainz-05-RasenBallsport-Leipzig
https://understat.com/match/12662

 

FM does not have such statistics. It is fair to assume internally SI may not have them either.

Edited by Svenc

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1 hour ago, Svenc said:

Arguably FM should have far more set piece Goals, as it had (far) more shots (pressured headers et all) from the set piece for ages.

Absolutely, open play creates far less chances than IRL. In FM20 your best open play chances will come from quick counters, which is why so many people use gegenpress.

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1 hour ago, Nacaw said:

In FM20 your best open play chances will come from quick counters, which is why so many people use gegenpress.

You can substitute in FM20 with in real life and it will still make perfect sense.( In real life your best open play chances will come from quick counters, which is why so many people use gegenpress.) Thanks for raising this point here.

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4 hours ago, Lvpool said:

Topics on how poor set peices are popping up on a daily basis. That should tell you all you need to know

Will you make a post every day if the set piece are working? Genuine question.

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3 ore fa, Svenc ha scritto:

Looking at set piece Goals in isolation is useless.


Arguably FM should have far more set piece Goals, as it had (far) more shots (pressured headers et all) from the set piece for ages. Keep throwing a dice just long enough, and you will see it hitting the string of sixes just often enough… Balancing Goals without looking at the actual shots is useless. Show me an FM match in any recent Iteration such as this, where even against a Team parking the bus, the attacking side has the lionshare of its shots actually from open play… just one.

Just one tought when I read your post. Statistically speaking, all you say is proven to be mathematically correct. So if I play the same savegame for 10 years of real life time, yeah figures will appear balanced. Unfortunately a lot of people don't have such a spare time to play this game to, so you have also to consider, as much as the developers, that many people play a relatively short career. So in my opinion, and here comes the difficult part, figures should look realistic immediatly and not along 10 years. If not, it's normal to see a user complain about woodwork been hit 6 times for 4 matches in a row (I'm exaggerating, nonetheless the number of woodwork hit IS a problem since many editions now). And in that case, you can't come up stating "keep throwing a dice just long enough..." because your explanation, I repeat it is statistically and logically correct, can't apply to anything.

Statistics: if I put my head in the oven, and my foot in a fridge, I can't say I'm alright on average.

 

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10 minuti fa, zyfon5 ha scritto:

Will you make a post every day if the set piece are working? Genuine question.

Why?

No it's not a genuine question, it's a provocative question. We're discussing about something aknowledged by the staff. There's no need to counter.

And why should I make a post or praise for something BASIC that it is supposed to work since the very first day of the release date? Figures are high, routines are not executed correctly. That's all.

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Federico said:

figures should look realistic immediatly 

 

That was my argument.

Shots from set pieces are more numerous than in football straight from match day 1. (And has been for many versions). You simply won't find matches in which a Team has 80-90%+ of their shots from open play, usually. Therefore, it would logically follow that FM should actually produce more set piece goals than football unless that were adressed. 

Edited by Svenc

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1 hour ago, zyfon5 said:

You can substitute in FM20 with in real life and it will still make perfect sense.( In real life your best open play chances will come from quick counters, which is why so many people use gegenpress.) Thanks for raising this point here.

It doesn't make perfect sense, precisely because open play other than gegenpress still generate far more chances IRL than in FM. This difference is the point you should notice, not that gegenpress is somewhat decent.

Lack of chances from open play is also another reason possession is often overrated on this forum, it's simply not as valuable in FM as it is IRL. 

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6 hours ago, Nacaw said:

It doesn't make perfect sense, precisely because open play other than gegenpress still generate far more chances IRL than in FM. This difference is the point you should notice, not that gegenpress is somewhat decent.

Lack of chances from open play is also another reason possession is often overrated on this forum, it's simply not as valuable in FM as it is IRL. 

Look back what you have said. Best open play chances not the number of open play chances. Who is not making sense here?

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7 hours ago, Federico said:

Why?

No it's not a genuine question, it's a provocative question. We're discussing about something aknowledged by the staff. There's no need to counter.

And why should I make a post or praise for something BASIC that it is supposed to work since the very first day of the release date? Figures are high, routines are not executed correctly. That's all.

He asked why he saw so many posts relating to set pieces and tried to use it as a justification that in his game set pieces have issues instead of posting real figures from his game despite repeatedly asked to do so. I tried to offer a counter argument to his observation.

Does that mean I don't think set pieces have issues? No. Instead I have made comments regarding the issues the set pieces have since I started playing FM. But it doesn't mean that everyone should jump on the bandwagon and assume that these issues will appear in every match in every game. And people have posted examples of set pieces routines working correctly and normal figures in set pieces but you choose to only see those that fit your narrative. Fine.

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1 hour ago, zyfon5 said:

Look back what you have said. Best open play chances not the number of open play chances. Who is not making sense here?

In this case, it's actually both. I guess this could have been more clear. You can knock the ball around most of the game without creating chances (other than set peices), while season #1 Liverpool will get 30 shots per game despite not dominating possession. 

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10 ore fa, zyfon5 ha scritto:

And people have posted examples of set pieces routines working correctly and normal figures in set pieces but you choose to only see those that fit your narrative. Fine.

Not really, sorry I haven't read about those who posted routines working correctly and have normal figures. Could you point me there?

I probably missed the whole thing. I'm currently aware of threads created in the bugs forum for set pieces not working though (that is what I'm experiencing too).

 

 

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17 hours ago, Nacaw said:

Lack of chances from open play is also another reason possession is often overrated on this forum, it's simply not as valuable in FM as it is IRL. 

Looking back at my last season I can't say that I agree. Most of my goals came from crosses wich makes sense because I play with 2 wingers and recently switched my one fb to attack also. I also scored decent number of goals from through balls. I haven't been paying much attention to set pieces but I scored maybe 5 corners, free kicks were at 0 for the majoirity of the last season. It could be that I scored 1 at the end. Scored a few penalties though. and overall I didn't score too many goals, I was 1st in that stat in the league but it was only 56 I think.

I changed the default set pieces routines now, and I acutally scored a few set pieces already but I also had one 3:3 draw where all 3 goals I conceded were from set piece.

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1 hour ago, Federico said:

Not really, sorry I haven't read about those who posted routines working correctly and have normal figures. Could you point me there?

I probably missed the whole thing. I'm currently aware of threads created in the bugs forum for set pieces not working though (that is what I'm experiencing too).

My post. Third in this very thread!

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1 hour ago, Federico said:

Not really, sorry I haven't read about those who posted routines working correctly and have normal figures. Could you point me there?

I probably missed the whole thing. I'm currently aware of threads created in the bugs forum for set pieces not working though (that is what I'm experiencing too).

 

 

Too bad I have started a new season so all my previous season figures are gone now. Will PM you once I have a big enough sample size. Hence I will tag my friend here hopefully he will have something to show you. @XaW

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8 minuti fa, XaW ha scritto:

My post. Third in this very thread!

Ah sure. Are your routines working fine?

And sorry... I see Ujpest have scored 13 goals from IFKs? how many goals did they score along the regular season?

How many games did you play in the regular season? 33, correct?

Have you also played in some major european league or only minor? Do you have statistics from that?

Sorry, I'm not truly convinced by your screenshot.

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6 minuti fa, zyfon5 ha scritto:

Too bad I have started a new season so all my previous season figures are gone now. Will PM you once I have a big enough sample size.

Yeah. Too bad.

Thanks, much appreciated.

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54 minutes ago, Federico said:

Ah sure. Are your routines working fine?

And sorry... I see Ujpest have scored 13 goals from IFKs? how many goals did they score along the regular season?

How many games did you play in the regular season? 33, correct?

Have you also played in some major european league or only minor? Do you have statistics from that?

Sorry, I'm not truly convinced by your screenshot.

Oh, I'm not claiming EVERYTHING is fine with set pieces, even SI have said as much. What I said is that there is ways to negate it and not concede much from them. 

Sure, Újpest scored a lot of goals from freekicks, but for me, I did concede 3 all season + 1 from a corner. I can't show the total since that is not possible for previous seasons, as far as I know.

I'm in a new season now, teams have played 13/14 matches, and these are the statistics so far:

fHVxblB.png

I've conceded 0 from corners and 2 from free kicks.

Looking at goals from free kicks:

HSYC9GV.png

Debrecen have scored 5 from IFK in 13 games. Quite a lot, but at the same time 8 of 14 have scored 1 or 0. So on average, I'd say that looks real enough.

I will show as much of that as you'd like, so if you want something else then please let me know.

I have also uploaded my tactics to steam, but I will once again say, I have tailored the set pieces BASED ON MY CURRENT BATCH OF PLAYERS.

One of the things I changed that helped out a lot was that I figured out the details of how I conceded a lot from free kicks. I had a DM with very good duel skills, but I noticed that when he didn't play I conceded a lot. So I looked at my backup DM, and he is not a very good player to have in a crucial duel.

GDNHT22.png

Not a bad playmaking DM, but poor strength, jumping, heading and bravery made him a real poor choice of player to help out on crosses. So I made sure to change things whenever he had to play. I set him to lurk outside area or close down, or anything else than being in the box.

That is one of the examples on things I did to prevent conceding goals from set pieces.

Ideally, your assistant manager should be able to help out pointing things like this out, but it's more than possible to find out these things by yourself if you look at the situations individually.

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First of all, thanks for have shared your work and for have uploaded all your screenshots! :)

While I agree you can probably mitigate this issue of goal conceded from IFK, what I also assume is that unfortunately it's not something related exclusively to the user but there's something inside the ME that allows even the AI to let's say "benefit" at least from it, as numbers from your screenshots are showing.

I always played a top team, and tried different setup to defend from them (until the moment I just gave up with it. Mind that I suffer from IFK as much as I benefit from them). The advantage of playing top teams is that you have good players in almost every position. According to my experience, part of the problem is related to what I see on the screen. What I see on the screen is that players who normally should lose an aerial challange, with very poor heading attributes, are able to score more than the logic would suggest. And as said before, unfortunately for some people, me included, routines seem to be "forgotten" during the game and the deployment of players, in some circumstances, seem not to follow any logic.

Also, I'd like to see your "strategy" applied on top leagues too and see what "better players" (in terms of crossing and headers) can produce.

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4 hours ago, Federico said:

First of all, thanks for have shared your work and for have uploaded all your screenshots! :)

No worries, I'll do what I can to help! :)

4 hours ago, Federico said:

While I agree you can probably mitigate this issue of goal conceded from IFK, what I also assume is that unfortunately it's not something related exclusively to the user but there's something inside the ME that allows even the AI to let's say "benefit" at least from it, as numbers from your screenshots are showing.

Yeah, there are issues with set pieces in the game, and even SI have said so. That said, not everyone who struggles with conceding from set pieces do so because of issues in the game. It could also be down to the user not trying to mend issues in their set up. While I conceded more with the standard settings, I didn't feel it was horrible, but when I became a superior team in my league it became the thing I conceded a lot from. So I tried to negate it as much as I could, simply by examining what happened each time. And after doing that for a while I saw a pattern and tried to handle it.

Even so, there are certain (AI) team that have more success than others, as in real life, so I don't really mind that.

4 hours ago, Federico said:

I always played a top team, and tried different setup to defend from them (until the moment I just gave up with it. Mind that I suffer from IFK as much as I benefit from them). The advantage of playing top teams is that you have good players in almost every position. According to my experience, part of the problem is related to what I see on the screen. What I see on the screen is that players who normally should lose an aerial challange, with very poor heading attributes, are able to score more than the logic would suggest. And as said before, unfortunately for some people, me included, routines seem to be "forgotten" during the game and the deployment of players, in some circumstances, seem not to follow any logic.

Yeah, those kinds of situations could be down to the errors in the game. But still, not only heading and jumping are things that are needed in aerial duels, such as strength, anticipation, positioning, concentration, and probably a lot more. Besides, you also see shorter players win those kinds of duels often, even with poor aerial skills. Roberto Firmino scores quite a few headers, even if he is not that great of a jumper, he is a very intelligent player who uses the other parts rather than brute force to win the duels. So every once in a while those kinds of situations should happen. Even Messi scores a few headers every now and then. But if that happens all the time, then I'd agree that's a potential error. If you haven't, you should post a bug report regarding that, so SI at the very least have more examples, if they already know of it.

4 hours ago, Federico said:

Also, I'd like to see your "strategy" applied on top leagues too and see what "better players" (in terms of crossing and headers) can produce.

While Hungary is not a top league, I've managed to improve it quite a bit, so it's not the 13th highest ranked league. My team is also a regular in the CL group stage, and have managed to get into the knockout round once so far. So while we are not a top tier side, we are not a Sunday league outfit either. I did have quite a few seasons in the Premier League with Folkestone Invicta and I did the same there then, and didn't have much issue. Even if I used the basic set piece instructions back then. Would probably have done even better if I had spent time on it there. Don't have the screenshots from that unfortunately, it was from my old computer that broke (which is why I abandoned the save...).

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