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mikcheck

Good and intelligent players but I don't know if 4132 it's the best now

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Posted (edited)

Hello all,

I've been using a 4132 with average success I guess, I've won Serie A for the first time with Atalanta, but I was completely hammered by Tottenham in Champions League (we're far from success in that competition). And know I don't know, looking into my players, should I use a more attacking formation or it's possible to achieve success using a more defensive formation as a 4132? Would you use something else?

This is what I've been using so far. I'm adding Be more expressive for this coming season:

1997420061_SemTtulo.thumb.jpg.f578584ff62dc42df0f2baf31879e2d6.jpg

 

 

GK:

gk.thumb.jpg.1de3a7a568053e7464bd19a0c2029610.jpg

 

Defenders:

bois.thumb.jpg.accb472642c22e5dbf1ffe1d5431851e.jpg   d.thumb.jpg.f6acc6b12bbbd2c090e88341ae414e3b.jpg d2.thumb.jpg.f90896fd5c55ad64d38f6528faa4bc50.jpg

d3.thumb.jpg.dfcfa4057af99c862a131a72658f0c24.jpg d4.thumb.jpg.d37ab5634e77891f7abb11945cd42f63.jpg d5.thumb.jpg.1d0cc6f951baaef9dc74a5ede2abe020.jpgd6.thumb.jpg.c747b96c89a720ea583b5b9fbb69daef.jpg  d7.thumb.jpg.f771dde046624a6b7cd38fd2e17dd1b3.jpg

 

Midfielders:

m.thumb.jpg.33e50e283e39f70980e4e56cbba8a74d.jpg m1.thumb.jpg.68ed65f452febadadf9e575c9effef09.jpg m2.thumb.jpg.f984d3b62f2892d74b4372d6ae57e5a8.jpg

m5.thumb.jpg.a048831e715662c8ff68b0df5ca6ccbf.jpg m7.thumb.jpg.845a5994c7635ca7f3f07677ca7af339.jpg m9.thumb.jpg.be3f92bd6fd699f452a6057f1b79e212.jpg

mm.thumb.jpg.d143e1fc1bb8240d279724b83e78c339.jpg mmm.thumb.jpg.03136aeebab12478b7cc8332ae4d8220.jpg

 

Strikers:

aa.thumb.jpg.e0963f179d7463ddd2963aab2e3b2322.jpg aaa.thumb.jpg.9cacab3813cc23f2c67beb208213cf66.jpg aaaa.thumb.jpg.bf1afff6c62859366da8aa6c904f6b85.jpg

av.thumb.jpg.3de3a734b618c753359b21d9fc87fb69.jpgav2.thumb.jpg.e1ffbcea3d425636094058ef96610ef2.jpg

 

Thank you for your time!

 

 

Edited by mikcheck

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A relatively risky Mentality + the riskiest possible role/duty for your left back + a player with the gets forward often Trait and not exactly the best work ethic = you don't really have a left back.  You'll usually get away with it in Serie A, but against the elite teams in the CL you'll get torn apart. 

That's just an example.  Consider how things work in combination with each other :thup:.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutos atrás, herne79 disse:

A relatively risky Mentality + the riskiest possible role/duty for your left back + a player with the gets forward often Trait and not exactly the best work ethic = you don't really have a left back.  

Hi Herne! Thanks.

Would you change it for a CWB(s) instead? May I should use the other player, he has a better work ethic.

 

11 minutos atrás, herne79 disse:

You'll usually get away with it in Serie A, but against the elite teams in the CL you'll get torn apart. 

You say that because of what you said before or because of the defensive type of narrow formation instead?

Thanks.

Edited by mikcheck

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Narrow formations are inherently vulnerable down the flanks, my guess is you're getting destroyed by 4-1-2-3s, 4-2-3-1s and the like. Problem is that, should you make your wing-backs too conservative, you suddenly have no width at all, which can make you very quiet up front. For narrow formations to work consistently, good wing backs capable of handling everything on their own are essential. Plus two aerially dominant central defenders, because you will face a lot of crosses.

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Posted (edited)
1 hora atrás, Zemahh disse:

Narrow formations are inherently vulnerable down the flanks, my guess is you're getting destroyed by 4-1-2-3s, 4-2-3-1s and the like. Problem is that, should you make your wing-backs too conservative, you suddenly have no width at all, which can make you very quiet up front. For narrow formations to work consistently, good wing backs capable of handling everything on their own are essential. Plus two aerially dominant central defenders, because you will face a lot of crosses.

Thanks.  Yes against Tottenham for example, they played with a aggressive 4231.

I think my wing backs are pretty capable, it's the position I pay more attention to. I always make sure that they're fast and capable of attacking and defending. I have two pretty good central defenders too, I don't buy players with less then 15 for jumping reach and I also make sure that they're intelligent.

 

Edited by mikcheck

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Yeah, your squad does seem pretty capable. I think it comes down to the fact that any sort of a wide formation is just a natural counter to yours and when you add to that world class wingers that clubs in the Champions League have, it's always going to be difficult. Personally, I would use a more balanced formation in tough matches, but if you want to stick with your current one, you could consider some of the following changes:

  • CWB-At -> WB-Su/At

Attack duty + Positive mentality = Very Attacking individual mentality

Support duty + Positive mentality = Positive individual mentality

CWB on one flank wouldn't be wrong either, but if we're talking safety-first here, WB is the more conservative option.

  • CAR -> BWM-De

If you opt for an Attack duty on that side, BWM should offer more defensive cover. Also, as noted above, Support duties will still be fairly attack-minded on Positive mentality; Very Attacking and Positive mentality on one flank could be quite risky.

  • BBM -> CAR

Carrilero should offer more cover in wide areas, plus he isn't instructed to Roam From Position, which could leave his flank vulnerable to counters. With being instructed to Stay Wider, he should also make center of the pitch less congested.

  • WB-Su -> WB-De

I'd consider changing one wing-back to Defend duty, when you have a favorable result. WB-De's should still offer some width and cross when the opportunity is right, but they'll take less risks. Besides that, a CAR ahead of him on Positive individual mentality should already offer something going forward.

  • DM-De -> HB-De

With three central midfielders ahead of him, DM shouldn't need to be the fourth. Half-back should be a bit more defensively responsible (more of an aggressive sweeper, than a midfielder) and it goes nicely with two wing-backs—he'll drop between your central defenders in possession, splitting them wider and pushing wing-backs higher up the pitch, giving you better options when playing from the back.

I'd also make sure opposition FB's and WB's are set to Mark Tighter and Always Close Down in opposition instructions. If they get high up the pitch, they will create a 2 vs. 1 situation against your wing-back, which usually results in an unobstructed cross.

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The few times I've tried 4132, I've become frustrated and switched to 4312. With the same players, even if they're better suited for the former on paper, seem to perform better using the latter. I think the reason for that follows...

Most people will tell you to be more conservative, but I'd argue the opposite. With any narrow variant of a 442, you're going to be outnumbered in wide positions. If you sit back, good teams will exploit that, eventually. So in my mind, you gotta defend from the front, and use your numbers and (hopefully) work rate advantage to win the ball back before they can make you pay with those overloads. When playing that way goes wrong, it can go spectacularly wrong, but I don't think you can justify sitting back. The ceiling on such formation/tactics may be inherently lower than 442/433/4231, especially in two-legged competitions (e.g., UCL) against top teams, but I think you can make it work with a fortunate draw and a little luck...

If you wanna sit back defensively, then collapse in attack, then you might try a 442, with roles that bring your wide midfielders inside in possession. I think I'll try that at my next landing spot.

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Thank you both.

I think I need to try other formation with this team, something like a 41221. I feel like my players don't belong in this 4132 anymore, and I dont know if I can win a Champions League with it too.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, loisvale said:

 

Thanks man, I appreciate that. I don't doubt it works , but I prefer to create my own tactics.

Edited by Experienced Defender
illegitimate link to another website

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@loisvale I removed your comment because that kind of linking to another site is not allowed by forum rules. 

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Posted (edited)

@Experienced Defender mind do give your input on this please? Do you agree that with better players I should play a more attacking formation?

Based on my players attributes, I created this one. My front 3 are my best ones, so I think they should be in more attacking positions.

formation.thumb.jpg.727ff2dbdd6af82401851654e981f179.jpg

The reason I use the right WB like that is because I want him to be  attack minded , but I don't want to give him an attack duty because it has both dribble/cross more and I don't want it.

PI's:

BBM - Move into channels

IW - Sit narrower, roam, take more risks

F9 - Roam, tacke harder, close down more

Edited by mikcheck

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1 hour ago, mikcheck said:

formation.thumb.jpg.727ff2dbdd6af82401851654e981f179.jpg

 

1 hour ago, mikcheck said:

@Experienced Defender mind do give your input on this please?

Lack of penetration is probably going to be the main issue here. Btw, why asymmetric? 

 

1 hour ago, mikcheck said:

Do you agree that with better players I should play a more attacking formation?

"More attacking" compared to what?

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4 minutos atrás, Experienced Defender disse:

 

Lack of penetration is probably going to be the main issue here. Btw, why asymmetric? 

 

"More attacking" compared to what?

The reason I use the right WB like that is because I want him to be  attack minded , but I don't want to give him an attack duty because it has both dribble/cross more and I don't want it.

More attacking compared to a narrow 4132, which is a bottom heavy formation. Perhaps not ideal for teams with good attacking players.

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3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

@loisvale I removed your comment because that kind of linking to another site is not allowed by forum rules. 

Oops. Sorry. 

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Just now, mikcheck said:

The reason I use the right WB like that is because I want him to be  attack minded , but I don't want to give him an attack duty because it has both dribble/cross more and I don't want it

You can use the Overlap right team instruction while playing in the normal position if you want to make him more attacking without upping his duty. 

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13 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Thanks man, I appreciate that. I don't doubt it works , but I prefer to create my own tactics.

No worries. So do I. Still plenty to learn from well crafted ones. Understood though. 

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1 hora atrás, Experienced Defender disse:

You can use the Overlap right team instruction while playing in the normal position if you want to make him more attacking without upping his duty. 

Wouldn't that change the IW mentality or make him hold up the ball more?

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21 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Wouldn't that change the IW mentality or make him hold up the ball more?

Yes, it will. 

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From all the support striker roles, which one  tends to drop deeper, F9?

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2 hours ago, mikcheck said:

From all the support striker roles, which one  tends to drop deeper, F9?

F9 drops deepest among the more creative roles. But the deepest in general is PF on defend duty.

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