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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2020 January & February Transfer Updates Feedback Thread

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I'm doing a lower leagues save (currently one league below vanorama) and the game is a lot more random/more enjoyable to watch. Wondering if it might be due to reputations all being so low. Or that most of the players are just really awful :D Certainly more exciting than my previous Premier league save with Fulham.

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Possible. My Brentford save was much more enjoyable than this Man Utd one.

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Posted (edited)

I've tried and tried to get into this game but it is just horrendous to play. As ViG1980 above has pointed out many things needing done to change the game experience.

Now don't get me wrong, winning games and doing well in the league and cups isn't a problem, it's how the ME plays and watching the games back which makes it horrendous to watch and enjoy. Add in all the things I want to say to players but can't because there's no option to do so. Pre season is an example, played 4 games and one of my top players is averaging 6.55, my only option to speak to him is to tell him to sort out his conduct or get better in training...Erm he's playing crap and he needs a bollocking about his game play.

1v1 are still a mess, you'll score 1 out of 10 attempts.

Too many 30yd screamers into the top corner.

Defenders have the ball on the half way line, they have options left/right/middle so what do they do, they turn around and pass the ball 50yds back to the goalie, WTF?

Same defenders on the half way line gets the ball, dawdles for some unknown reason and lets the attacker take the ball off him and lets him score.

Then we have players with high agility/high dribbling/high skill levels just kick the ball off the opponents legs, no attempt to go past him or dribble past him, nope he just stands there and kicks it off his legs, even when there's a player able to take the pass, he still kicks it against his legs????

We still have the wonder keeper in game, keepers from lower leagues in either friendly or early cup games all making saves De Gea would be envious of, 2 handed catches in the top corner etc, just too much.

Edited by jc1

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1 hour ago, jc1 said:

Same defenders on the half way line gets the ball, dawdles for some unknown reason and lets the attacker take the ball off him and lets him score.

What role are you giving your defender?

I was finding this happening a lot and getting very frustrated- however I managed to cut it down by not playing people as ball playing defenders unless that was their best role. Previously I'd try and put someone who was more comfortable as a central defender (although didn't appear awful as ball playing defender) into that role and they were constantly getting robbed on the halfway line.

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6 minutes ago, KingCanary said:

What role are you giving your defender?

I was finding this happening a lot and getting very frustrated- however I managed to cut it down by not playing people as ball playing defenders unless that was their best role. Previously I'd try and put someone who was more comfortable as a central defender (although didn't appear awful as ball playing defender) into that role and they were constantly getting robbed on the halfway line.

All my central defenders are comfortable as ball playing ones, I like to play with one a a BPD and one as a simple defender, it still happens, just the way the game is. Not really about the type of defender, just he stands motionless for about 2 seconds before he's robbed of the ball, frustrating. 

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So.....being the sucker that I'am, I decided to give another go on FM 20. It's terribly sad how the Match Engine doesn't hold a small candle to the amount of work which has been put into polishing the Non Match Engine functionality.

After a few matches, my usual "Yes! I scored from a Set Piece" which existed throughout FM 10 to FM 20 changed to "Oh dear yet another Set Piece goal" or "Wow the AI scored a goal which is not a set piece and I lost. This is great!"

How this kind of an issue was left in the game I have no idea. Winning with set pieces is often a "Oh look a goal" rather than a "Goaaaaaal!!!!". One on Ones seem to be basically newbie strikers who refuse to score unless they get a set piece cross or pass and they usually turn into Lionel Messis.

Come on SI. For years, I have always pre-ordered and believed in the idea of Play it yourself and decide. Now it's become: Play it yourself, have a look at the forums and then buy it. I'm definitely going to take a peek here to see if issues have been fixed before deciding to give them money.

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Maybe I'm lucky but I've just not had this same set piece issue. Looking at my analysis screen, the last 36 league matches shows 65 goals scored and 34 conceded. 14 of mine have come from set pieces and 7 of the opposition. So 21 goals out 99 have been from a set piece. This doesn't feel massive to me?

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7 minutes ago, KingCanary said:

Maybe I'm lucky but I've just not had this same set piece issue. Looking at my analysis screen, the last 36 league matches shows 65 goals scored and 34 conceded. 14 of mine have come from set pieces and 7 of the opposition. So 21 goals out 99 have been from a set piece. This doesn't feel massive to me?

It's not. Set piece marking can be improved, and actually think the concept of set piece instructions needs more evolving. But set piece goals can make up large chunks of goals. If you look at the top 5 leagues theres been a variation of the impact of set piece goals, a lot more prevalent in the Premier League and Bundesliga than La Liga. its not really set piece goals that need looking at but more goals in open play, which will come from improvements to build up, movement and passing

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1 hour ago, KingCanary said:

Maybe I'm lucky but I've just not had this same set piece issue. Looking at my analysis screen, the last 36 league matches shows 65 goals scored and 34 conceded. 14 of mine have come from set pieces and 7 of the opposition. So 21 goals out 99 have been from a set piece. This doesn't feel massive to me?

 

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It's not. Set piece marking can be improved, and actually think the concept of set piece instructions needs more evolving. But set piece goals can make up large chunks of goals. If you look at the top 5 leagues theres been a variation of the impact of set piece goals, a lot more prevalent in the Premier League and Bundesliga than La Liga. its not really set piece goals that need looking at but more goals in open play, which will come from improvements to build up, movement and passing

I'm talking about winning through goals from Set Pieces.

Am I actually supposed to alter my tactics to help the AI not concede set pieces? Most of the time it's the same story: Get a set piece, you're more likely to score. I watch a lot of live football and nowhere has there been such a impact where set pieces keep deciding match after match.

This game has too many set piece goals and way few open play ones. It's come to a point where I celebrate a loss because the AI scored a open play goal.

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You need to get very lucky to find a tactic that doesn’t make the ME score mainly from set pieces. I found one a few seasons back in my journeyman save but then the AI worked me out and it became a set piece fest. It still thought my tactic was strong as I kept winning but it decided it wasn’t as good as it used to be so resorted to set piece goals all over the place.

I’m sure someone will point out to me that this isn’t how the game works, but again, just my observations :) 

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52 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

You need to get very lucky to find a tactic that doesn’t make the ME score mainly from set pieces. I found one a few seasons back in my journeyman save but then the AI worked me out and it became a set piece fest. It still thought my tactic was strong as I kept winning but it decided it wasn’t as good as it used to be so resorted to set piece goals all over the place.

I’m sure someone will point out to me that this isn’t how the game works, but again, just my observations :) 

A good example of how observations can be skewed by perception and misunderstanding. It doesn't decide anything like that, as the link I showed you explained

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59 minutes ago, saiyaman said:

 

I'm talking about winning through goals from Set Pieces.

Am I actually supposed to alter my tactics to help the AI not concede set pieces? Most of the time it's the same story: Get a set piece, you're more likely to score. I watch a lot of live football and nowhere has there been such a impact where set pieces keep deciding match after match.

This game has too many set piece goals and way few open play ones. It's come to a point where I celebrate a loss because the AI scored a open play goal.

I mean, I work on live football for a job, match analysis is part of it. Set pieces are pretty key. As I said in the post already, main issue is the need for better approach and build play, which should lead to more goals in open play

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38 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

A good example of how observations can be skewed by perception and misunderstanding. It doesn't decide anything like that, as the link I showed you explained

Some tactics create loads of set pieces. Others don’t. 

Better?

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1 hour ago, Tyburn said:

but then the AI worked me out

This doesn't happen. They adjust based on perceived strength of the club. With that in mind:

 

16 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

Some tactics create loads of set pieces. Others don’t. 

If the above happened and you did nothing, you're naturally not going to create much from open play so you're naturally restricted to set pieces.

Be savvy. Be observant. If they do become more defensive, how can you pull them apart to create some open play chances? This is really supposed to be for the tactics forum, but just to get you thinking on what happens, it may spark some ideas.  :thup:

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18 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

This doesn't happen. They adjust based on perceived strength of the club. With that in mind:

 

If the above happened and you did nothing, you're naturally not going to create much from open play so you're naturally restricted to set pieces.

Be savvy. Be observant. If they do become more defensive, how can you pull them apart to create some open play chances? This is really supposed to be for the tactics forum, but just to get you thinking on what happens, it may spark some ideas.  :thup:

One thing I have noticed is that it's easy is it to generate free kicks. There's an awful lot of running in the game ( too much?) and when you set your team to run at defence and you've got great dribblers at the front end, you can generate lots of dangerous free kicks. But that comes back to the game needing to be a bit more pass orientated

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1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

But that comes back to the game needing to be a bit more pass orientated

And to be that, a bit more movement orientated too. Just a little. The defence can set itself well. We can only do so much too.

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At the start of a new season my board try and push ‘play for set pieces’. Pretty much every season for 16 years, multiple clubs, multiple tactics. I’ve never played for set pieces once.

Coincidence? Do you think my boards see something in the way I get my teams to play perhaps? They look at the stats come the end of a season and think, well that worked last season, let’s push him into making it happen more next? Again, I don’t go out of my way to score from set pieces.

The game has a propensity for them. It really can’t be denied. And as stated above I’ve had seasons where goals were scored mostly from open play. But the vast majority are not. And it’s not like I’m not trying to make the set pieces stop.

The goal this year is to create an environment, a tactic, that doesn’t make the ME wig out on set pieces. Which is ridiculous.

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

One thing I have noticed is that it's easy is it to generate free kicks. There's an awful lot of running in the game ( too much?) and when you set your team to run at defence and you've got great dribblers at the front end, you can generate lots of dangerous free kicks. But that comes back to the game needing to be a bit more pass orientated

The root of the problem IMO is the tendency of midfielders to play long balls out wide and fullbacks nearly always leaving the winger unmarked. The winger is always going to dribble in a situation where he is in a 1v1 against the fullback. The problem is that to solve one particular issue, you have to look at a host of different issues like striker involvement, passing between the lines and obviously player positioning while defending.

Edited by anindyarajan19

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42 minutes ago, anindyarajan19 said:

The root of the problem IMO is the tendency of midfielders to play long balls out wide and fullbacks nearly always leaving the winger unmarked. The winger is always going to dribble in a situation where he is in a 1v1 against the fullback. The problem is that to solve one particular issue, you have to look at a host of different issues like striker involvement, passing between the lines and obviously player positioning while defending.

There needs to be more of bias to play towards that central zone in front of the penalty area. But to do that you need better movement, especially dropping deep between the lines

The majority of my goals all come from open play, but theres absolutely more that could be done

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On 14/06/2020 at 02:04, tajj7 said:

 

There are many valid points in my opinion here. Yet, there are also a couple of things that I don't agree on. 

First thing is the long rangers. At least I haven't seen a disturbing amount of them in any of my saves. They occasionally happen and that is a great thing to me, as they were almost totally missing for so many years from the engine. Also I would say that at professional level almost all of the players are realistically able to score from 30 yards out. Even some of us are scoring those when we go play at the local stadium just for fun and none of our players even plays at amateur level anymore. Even at this level there are players that can hit the ball quite well even from difficult angles etc. You should be able to expect the same from professionals.

Second thing is how the amount of passes are "spread" between clubs. The truth is that in most of the teams defenders are the ones who are seeing most of the ball and getting 80-90 pass attempts for them is not that uncommon situation, especially in a possession based system. The low block is an issue though and it is a sad issue indeed. When the AI does change it's approach to more active one, they have been able to control games and pin my team quite strongly like they should. If the AI would always act like this, the game would be considerably more challenging and that would be a fantastic thing. 

With strikers I haven't seen such extremes. My lone forward is basically always getting between 15-25 pass attempts per game. Yet, even these 8 pass attempts per game for a striker are way closer to real life than for example FM 2017 and 2018 were. In those versions a support duty forward was often recording pass statistics that a good deep lying playmaker could be proud of. And as they were getting these amounts of pass attempts and key passes in the most dangerous areas of the pitch, it was quite obvious that a simple "support duty" striker was very often totally overpowering. I don't know how SI did this but change has been huge in these stats and the direction totally the right one. I wish that other areas such as midfield engagement and wide area defending in general can take such leap in the next version.

I wouldn't say that the ME is that bad in general. There are some big issues in it that can make it even extremely frustrating but in general I would rate it one of the best they have managed to create so far. At least I am finding the matches quite fun to watch and manage and when the AI is in mood of pressing and attacking, even at times a bit challenging. It has some great aspects in it. 

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2 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

But that comes back to the game needing to be a bit more pass orientated

This is something that I agree on. Although in my opinion it still is too easy to pass the ball around in defense and close to the halfway line. This leads into a situation where such roles as deep lying playmakers are seeing too much of the ball, having too many pass attempts and too many completed passes. At least the AI doesn't seem to have any weapons to win the ball high up the pitch and take your deeper midfielders out of the play by not allowing them space to operate on. 

Pressing in general has improved a lot in my opinion and playing with quite standard mentality with a basic 4-4-1-1 I am seeing my team winning the ball high up the pitch at times and scoring from them. The game needs to improve a lot in "defending by marking and positioning though" as applying pressure is often already way too late when the players keep positioning themselves badly in the first hand. I think this is best seen close to the halfway line and down the flanks where teh defending side's players tend to leave huge spaces for the attacking side's winger or midfielder to receive the ball and only after that applying the pressure which often leaves spaces elsewhere or sees the defender easily beaten by the player now in possession. 

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20 minutes ago, Broken_Record said:

This is something that I agree on. Although in my opinion it still is too easy to pass the ball around in defense and close to the halfway line. This leads into a situation where such roles as deep lying playmakers are seeing too much of the ball, having too many pass attempts and too many completed passes. At least the AI doesn't seem to have any weapons to win the ball high up the pitch and take your deeper midfielders out of the play by not allowing them space to operate on. 

Pressing in general has improved a lot in my opinion and playing with quite standard mentality with a basic 4-4-1-1 I am seeing my team winning the ball high up the pitch at times and scoring from them. The game needs to improve a lot in "defending by marking and positioning though" as applying pressure is often already way too late when the players keep positioning themselves badly in the first hand. I think this is best seen close to the halfway line and down the flanks where teh defending side's players tend to leave huge spaces for the attacking side's winger or midfielder to receive the ball and only after that applying the pressure which often leaves spaces elsewhere or sees the defender easily beaten by the player now in possession. 

Agree on the defensive aggression (or lack of it) I don't think it helps either that the ai is often playing a mentality or two too low, especially away from home or the underdog

By making the defence better and more aggressive, you can actually free up space for the better teams and/or managers to bypass them. Couple that with better movement and more passing bias towards that golden zone and you'll solve a huge majority of things

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17 hours ago, Tyburn said:

At the start of a new season my board try and push ‘play for set pieces’. Pretty much every season for 16 years, multiple clubs, multiple tactics. I’ve never played for set pieces once.

Coincidence? Do you think my boards see something in the way I get my teams to play perhaps? They look at the stats come the end of a season and think, well that worked last season, let’s push him into making it happen more next? Again, I don’t go out of my way to score from set pieces.

The game has a propensity for them. It really can’t be denied. And as stated above I’ve had seasons where goals were scored mostly from open play. But the vast majority are not. And it’s not like I’m not trying to make the set pieces stop.

The goal this year is to create an environment, a tactic, that doesn’t make the ME wig out on set pieces. Which is ridiculous.

Coincidence? No it's not. Some teams will have that set in the data from the start based on their history and fan expectation. Teams like Stoke have more of a history of goals from set pieces than say Arsenal. 

If they're being recommended for teams where you don't think it's realistic, it'd be worth raising a bug on the bugs forum ideally just before the expectations are requested so our QA team can investigate. Thanks. 

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20 hours ago, Broken_Record said:

There are many valid points in my opinion here. Yet, there are also a couple of things that I don't agree on. 

First thing is the long rangers. At least I haven't seen a disturbing amount of them in any of my saves. They occasionally happen and that is a great thing to me, as they were almost totally missing for so many years from the engine. Also I would say that at professional level almost all of the players are realistically able to score from 30 yards out. Even some of us are scoring those when we go play at the local stadium just for fun and none of our players even plays at amateur level anymore. Even at this level there are players that can hit the ball quite well even from difficult angles etc. You should be able to expect the same from professionals.

Second thing is how the amount of passes are "spread" between clubs. The truth is that in most of the teams defenders are the ones who are seeing most of the ball and getting 80-90 pass attempts for them is not that uncommon situation, especially in a possession based system. The low block is an issue though and it is a sad issue indeed. When the AI does change it's approach to more active one, they have been able to control games and pin my team quite strongly like they should. If the AI would always act like this, the game would be considerably more challenging and that would be a fantastic thing. 

With strikers I haven't seen such extremes. My lone forward is basically always getting between 15-25 pass attempts per game. Yet, even these 8 pass attempts per game for a striker are way closer to real life than for example FM 2017 and 2018 were. In those versions a support duty forward was often recording pass statistics that a good deep lying playmaker could be proud of. And as they were getting these amounts of pass attempts and key passes in the most dangerous areas of the pitch, it was quite obvious that a simple "support duty" striker was very often totally overpowering. I don't know how SI did this but change has been huge in these stats and the direction totally the right one. I wish that other areas such as midfield engagement and wide area defending in general can take such leap in the next version.

I wouldn't say that the ME is that bad in general. There are some big issues in it that can make it even extremely frustrating but in general I would rate it one of the best they have managed to create so far. At least I am finding the matches quite fun to watch and manage and when the AI is in mood of pressing and attacking, even at times a bit challenging. It has some great aspects in it. 

The problem with long rangers isn't that it players shouldn't be able to score them, but the fact that a player with 9 Long Shots will often pull off 25 yard screamers every other match. When do you ever see that happening? Never. 

The problem with the defenders getting far too many passes isn't that they aren't meant to, but that they ignore better passing options in front of them and always choose to play it either to the wing or back to the keeper. There is zero progression through the centre of the pitch. Defenders like Pique who have great technical and mental stats ignore a simple line breaking pass that would set a midfielder free and instead opt for either a back pass to the keeper, while letting the opposition pressure him, or hoof the ball out wide to a wingback who is already under considerable pressure and will nearly always return the ball back to the central defender since he has no space to turn. This is why the passing stats for defenders are bloated beyond measure. Defenders at the top level, especially those good on the ball should be able to punish the opposition for mistakes they make while pressing, but this just never happens.

Coming to the topic of striker involvement, the number of passes a striker makes in a game should depend a lot upon his role and traits. They are a non-factor this year. The F9 or DLF(Su) rarely drops into midfield to offer passing options. Since I play Messi as F9 who has world class stats all around and has the 'Comes Deep To Get Ball' Trait, I do expect him to drop beyond the second line and get himself involved. Instead the only passes he makes are passes back to the wingback after he has trotted up to the touchline to receive a throw-in, despite my set piece instructions telling him to lurk outside the box and not come short. Against a low block, most strikers are pretty much invisible since that stay between the opponent's defense and midfield line, which means that there is absolutely no chance of a midfielder finding him through a pass between the lines, which itself is absent in the ME this year.

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

Coincidence? No it's not. Some teams will have that set in the data from the start based on their history and fan expectation. Teams like Stoke have more of a history of goals from set pieces than say Arsenal. 

If they're being recommended for teams where you don't think it's realistic, it'd be worth raising a bug on the bugs forum ideally just before the expectations are requested so our QA team can investigate. Thanks. 

I don’t think it’s a bug. I think it’s that the season before I scored loads of set pieces and my board like the idea of it again next season. Happened with Dortmund and Spurs.

Ive also had seasons when I scored a bucket load then the board require me the following season to play attacking football, when previously that wasn’t the club culture.

Linked?

Edited by Tyburn

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Haven't checked this forum in a while, I see the activity has gone down. But, I just wanted to say how I still enjoy playing FM, really hooked on it during these quarantine times. Not FM20 of course or should I say FM set piece bore fest. 

But FM17, recently started a new save and just apsolutly enjoying it from the skin, AI intelligence regarding tactics and transfers, and the ME is almost perfect as stated many times on this forum. 

I love all the new features added to the game but thats all they are, features. The core of the game is the me. 

I pray that SI acknowledge that ME is their biggest priority for fm21. 

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After watching the reveals of "Next Gen" consoles and "Next Gen" FIFA, my thoughts are:

Thank goodness FM at least makes an effort to improve the product than declaring 5 year old tech (SSD) as "revolutionary" (ironically FM would benefit more from this.

I have my misgivings about the state of the game but thank goodness for this team.

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On 19/06/2020 at 05:02, nikolaMo said:

But FM17, recently started a new save and just apsolutly enjoying it from the skin, AI intelligence regarding tactics and transfers, and the ME is almost perfect as stated many times on this forum. 

Calling FM 2017 ME "almost perfect" is a very weird statement as this version of the engine actually probably is by far the farthest from real football that the ME has ever been in these more modern versions. So many aspects of it made absolutely no sense at all. 

I do understand the critique that the current version is getting but no way understand the praise that FM 2017 engine is receiving. 

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The set piece problem can turn good players into gods.

I mean -

MwQ5BYZ.png

And that is not even his best, I've had 30+ assist seasons out of JWP.  

AND that is pretty much always from a DMC position with either a SV or DLP role, so a position where he is more deep than most other midfielders and attackers. 

Another thing I would like to see a big improvement on and this has been a problem for years, is AI squad building, they are terrible at it.

I mean I can join a club a few seasons in -

Fb31lz9.png

And spend over £400 million on transfers AND make a profit, because there is so much bloated mess at these clubs.  Man City were playing a 1 striker system, yet the had Harry Kane, Aguero, Jesus and Depay. 

So you could say well Depay can play AMR/AML, yes, but then for those positions they had Silva, Sterling, Sane, Mahrez, Foden, Roberts in the first team squad as well.  Not to mention an U23 squad with about 45 players in it. 

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2 ore fa, Broken_Record ha scritto:

Calling FM 2017 ME "almost perfect" is a very weird statement as this version of the engine actually probably is by far the farthest from real football that the ME has ever been in these more modern versions. So many aspects of it made absolutely no sense at all. 

I do understand the critique that the current version is getting but no way understand the praise that FM 2017 engine is receiving. 

There was a "praise FM17 campaign" on the past months that might have changed the judgement on some past editions, mostly due to the frustration a lot of users are feeling about FM20.

Objectively, FM17 had several defensive issues and not only them. It was surely enjoyable but not even close to be "almost perfect", I agree on that, ME wise.

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To many FM17 was fun. That’s a big part of a game isn’t it? Fun.

Personally I’m not saying FM20 isn’t fun. But it’s easy to understand the issues.

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2 hours ago, Broken_Record said:

Calling FM 2017 ME "almost perfect" is a very weird statement as this version of the engine actually probably is by far the farthest from real football that the ME has ever been in these more modern versions. So many aspects of it made absolutely no sense at all. 

I do understand the critique that the current version is getting but no way understand the praise that FM 2017 engine is receiving. 

Ah the good old FM2017 ME where crossing is OP. Managed arsenal that time and just slap a crossing heavy tactic. Won the league with arsenal in my first ever FM season when they were predicted to finish 4th. Best ME ever if you are a total newbie.

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Posted (edited)

Don't remember FM 2017 engine perfectly well but I do remember beating big teams like Real Madrid at home woth ease just because I played a support duty striker, one inside forward and two midfielders rushing forward.

The striker kinda worked as an anchor point that kept releasing other players to scoring opportunities. The amount of passes was totally off in the mid areas of the pitch, both with midfielders and strikers. In this version simple strikers were creating way too many chances per game and dominating assist charts.

I think FM 2018 was the real eye opener though as it was quite obvious how multi striker formations basically broke the engine. 18 on the other hand was good in many other areas and mostly enjoyable to me. 

If I would have to praise a particular old version of the game in terms of the ME, I would go as far back as FM 2013. I think this version had the most balanced and football-like engine that FM has ever had. There ain't many videos of it online, but if you check out the ones that can be found, at least I still come to a conclusion that it still looks quite dang nice. Variation, statistics, scenarios happening... All of them look good. 

Edited by Broken_Record

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33 minutes ago, Broken_Record said:

Don't remember FM 2017 engine perfectly well but I do remember beating big teams like Real Madrid at home woth ease just because I played a support duty striker, one inside forward and two midfielders rushing forward.

The striker kinda worked as an anchor point that kept releasing other players to scoring opportunities. The amount of passes was totally off in the mid areas of the pitch, both with midfielders and strikers. In this version simple strikers were creating way too many chances per game and dominating assist charts.

I think FM 2018 was the real eye opener though as it was quite obvious how multi striker formations basically broke the engine. 18 on the other hand was good in many other areas and mostly enjoyable to me. 

If I would have to praise a particular old version of the game in terms of the ME, I would go as far back as FM 2013. I think this version had the most balanced and football-like engine that FM has ever had. There ain't many videos of it online, but if you check out the ones that can be found, at least I still come to a conclusion that it still looks quite dang nice. Variation, statistics, scenarios happening... All of them look good. 

Fm13 was a beautiful engine. Variety, and players had personality on the engine. I could tell who some of my regens were without a name above them just from their style with and without the ball 

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Why is FM20 so goddamn hard? Is that what the majority of the consumers want?

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1 hour ago, Domoboy23 said:

Fm13 was a beautiful engine. Variety, and players had personality on the engine. I could tell who some of my regens were without a name above them just from their style with and without the ball 

I'm a bit surprised that this versio hasn't been raised above the rest more often. Many people do consider ME as the most important single part of the game and in my opinion FM 2013 has been by far the best in this area. 

In this version it was a bit more difficult to make your team perform and play well and this possibly could be the reason why all the people didn't like it as much as I did. Same applies to FM 2009 that many see even as the biggest flop of the series, while I rate it one of the best, at least in terms of the ME. 

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4 hours ago, tajj7 said:

The set piece problem can turn good players into gods.

And that is not even his best, I've had 30+ assist seasons out of JWP.  

Around how many fk/corners are you averaging per game, if you don't mind my asking?

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On 16/06/2020 at 19:35, ajt said:

I'm doing a lower leagues save (currently one league below vanorama) and the game is a lot more random/more enjoyable to watch. Wondering if it might be due to reputations all being so low. Or that most of the players are just really awful :D Certainly more exciting than my previous Premier league save with Fulham.

The reputation gap between good and bad teams is much smaller in lower leagues, so the games themselves won't be as ridiculously one-sided as they can be in the EPL.

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On 17/06/2020 at 17:15, Broken_Record said:

The game needs to improve a lot in "defending by marking and positioning though" as applying pressure is often already way too late when the players keep positioning themselves badly in the first hand. I think this is best seen close to the halfway line and down the flanks where the defending side's players tend to leave huge spaces for the attacking side's winger or midfielder to receive the ball and only after that applying the pressure which often leaves spaces elsewhere or sees the defender easily beaten by the player now in possession. 

Yes, from watching actual games this week, I've noticed how seldom players in real life are as wide open and unmarked as players in FM20 are. Also, FM20 players can run around players too easily, whereas in real life those defenders are generally grabbing the attackers, delaying them, and just plain getting in the way much better. I think fixing that sort of one on one play is crucial to preventing all of these wide open scoring chances, which in turn will allow those chances to be more effective without distorting scores.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Stackalee said:

Around how many fk/corners are you averaging per game, if you don't mind my asking?

Corners is around the 7-10 sort of range I'd say.

Free kicks is a lot dependent on the team, lesser teams tend to foul a lot, like I just beat Dynamo 6-0 with Man City and they did 25 fouls, but then looking at it a lot of these are not in that dangerous positions. 

I'd also say direct free kicks is probably about fine from my experience.

For example Ward-Prowse in real life scores about 2-4 direct free kicks a seasons for Southampton, and in game he might score like 3-6, but that is playing for better teams who are likely to create more chances, attack more and therefore get fouled more around the box, thus giving him more chances to shoot.

I am also not sure wide free kicks is that much of a problem.

It's I think corners, too many goals from corners. IRL teams can have 10+ corners and not score, but it's quite easy in game IMO to score 1-2 goals from about 8-10 corners. 

Edited by tajj7

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49 minutes ago, Overmars said:

Yes, from watching actual games this week, I've noticed how seldom players in real life are as wide open and unmarked as players in FM20 are. Also, FM20 players can run around players too easily, whereas in real life those defenders are generally grabbing the attackers, delaying them, and just plain getting in the way much better. I think fixing that sort of one on one play is crucial to preventing all of these wide open scoring chances, which in turn will allow those chances to be more effective without distorting scores.

The wide areas tend to have 2-3 meters of space that work as a free highway for dribbling and overlaps. Dribbling itself doesn't seem to be as overpowering as in some previous versions but I have seen games where a winger has beaten a fullback more than 15 times in a single game. This has been apparent especially in European ties where my wide players always seem to be on fire and creating way more than they really should be. 

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53 minutes ago, Overmars said:

Yes, from watching actual games this week, I've noticed how seldom players in real life are as wide open and unmarked as players in FM20 are. Also, FM20 players can run around players too easily, whereas in real life those defenders are generally grabbing the attackers, delaying them, and just plain getting in the way much better. I think fixing that sort of one on one play is crucial to preventing all of these wide open scoring chances, which in turn will allow those chances to be more effective without distorting scores.

Yes dribbling is a real issue, far too many goals and chances scored by players who just run like 40-70 yards around players like they are not there.

From my experience, watching this, defenders just don't react when a player turns or moves, and they do odd things like run in the wrong direction, like instead of running at an angle to cut the distance to an attacker they run like parallel to them, stuff like that.

 

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32 minutes ago, tajj7 said:

Corners is around the 7-10 sort of range I'd say.

It's I think corners, too many goals from corners. IRL teams can have 10+ corners and not score, but it's quite easy in game IMO to score 1-2 goals from about 8-10 corners. 

This is true in isolated matches, both in game and IRL.

Like you say, you average 7-10 corners a game with a set piece specialist in your (presumably very good) team. If you were scoring 1-2 goals from every 8-10 corners JWP would have better stats. He is a specialist and I would hope that this can be rewarded in the game - especially in situations like yours where there is a risk vs. reward (I assume you could have had a far better player for open play).

I've been curious about this having seen quite a few posts about corners being too powerful and so on, but having checked my saves I've found that in my saves with the most goals from corners I'm still only averaging around a 3.5% conversion rate, which is pretty reasonable according to anything I've been able to dig out on real life corners. 

37 minutes ago, tajj7 said:

dribbling is a real issue

I agree with this and think it's a part of the perceived issue with corners - the combination of very powerful dribbling/wide positioning and poor decision making (relentless near post shots) in the final third by wide players leading to too many corners in games, which gives a high number of corner goals - even where the conversion rate is acceptable. I also think this is compounded by a lack of differentiation between good and average/poor players in these situations, especially when playing as a lone wide player.

Maybe it's just me, and my corner routine isn't that good - but from what I've seen the conversion rate seems fine while the number of corners is possibly bloated, leading to an abundance of goals from corners. Would be interested to see context provided in terms of conversion rates or just numbers of corners in more of the posts referencing this issue.

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It's funny how some users don't experience issues or a pattern with SP, since SI Devs have acknowledge of power and bugs into them.

 

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If the total amount of goals being conceded from set pieces is within normal/realistic realms you're far less likely to notice it right off the bat. If you play in a style that in turn concedes less set pieces, you're less likely to notice it even further.

A lot of people experience high pressing formations to be very effective. I didn't, I presume I set mine up wrong. So I play a cautious/defensive counter attack system. In turn, I don't tend to get many games where I have a significant number of shots & the AI scores from 1 or 2. It doesn't invalidate any other persons experiences in any way, its just that experiences can vary for people. 

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9 hours ago, Cadoni said:

SI Devs have acknowledge of power and bugs into them.

Trying to find this as I'm interested to read what's been said, not having any luck - I don't suppose you have a link or know where this was posted?

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There is a section here, called bugs forum. Search there 

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5 hours ago, santy001 said:

If the total amount of goals being conceded from set pieces is within normal/realistic realms you're far less likely to notice it right off the bat. If you play in a style that in turn concedes less set pieces, you're less likely to notice it even further.

A lot of people experience high pressing formations to be very effective. I didn't, I presume I set mine up wrong. So I play a cautious/defensive counter attack system. In turn, I don't tend to get many games where I have a significant number of shots & the AI scores from 1 or 2. It doesn't invalidate any other persons experiences in any way, its just that experiences can vary for people. 

According to the JSON file of the game about physics, it's pretty obvious what the ME favor. Players did notice that without a looking into this file. 

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Can SI hide such a files for FM21 please? 

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