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Football Manager 2020 January & February Transfer Updates Feedback Thread

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Posted (edited)

Is it just me who thinks that the amount of goals conceed by big clubs is completely unrealistic?

Here in this screenshot you can see that Dortmund has conceeded 35 goals in this season so far, 1.29 per game, with 80 scored, 2.75 per game

Capturar.thumb.PNG.62ee2d139dbe10b03b7795bc8d228263.PNG

And compare with a FM tactic that tries to reply Favre's style of play, in 17 games, BVB has scored 44 goals, 2.58 per game (less than IRL), but conceeded only 10! 0.58 per game, much less than the first in this statistic IRL, which is Bayern, with 0.96 per game

2.thumb.PNG.cd15c138c6cd33cf8c4e0ed2aaa2bff3.PNG

Why is this happening? Is the lack of quality in the ME that produces few goals from minor teams? Or it's a AI "failure". that makes the AI managers to don't attack these big clubs, only parking the bus for 90 minutes?

Edited by h3nrique_SEP

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5 hours ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

Is it just me who thinks that the amount of goals conceed by big clubs is completely unrealistic?

Here in this screenshot you can see that Dortmund has conceeded 35 goals in this season so far, 1.29 per game, with 80 scored, 2.75 per game

Capturar.thumb.PNG.62ee2d139dbe10b03b7795bc8d228263.PNG

And compare with a FM tactic that tries to reply Favre's style of play, in 17 games, BVB has scored 44 goals, 2.58 per game (less than IRL), but conceeded only 10! 0.58 per game, much less than the first in this statistic IRL, which is Bayern, with 0.96 per game

2.thumb.PNG.cd15c138c6cd33cf8c4e0ed2aaa2bff3.PNG

Why is this happening? Is the lack of quality in the ME that produces few goals from minor teams? Or it's a AI "failure". that makes the AI managers to don't attack these big clubs, only parking the bus for 90 minutes?

huh??? how are these two even comparable? If you want to make a case at least post something meaningful to prove your point. Even if the tactic manage to replicate real life Dortmund 100% there are two big problems with this comparison:

1. Lack of a sample size from both scenarios. Which means there are a lot of random variables that can influence the outcome.

2. There are still 17 other teams in the Bundesliga. Unless you make all these 17 teams play exactly like IRL there is zero point to make a comparison IRL.

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10 hours ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

Is it just me who thinks that the amount of goals conceed by big clubs is completely unrealistic?

Here in this screenshot you can see that Dortmund has conceeded 35 goals in this season so far, 1.29 per game, with 80 scored, 2.75 per game

Capturar.thumb.PNG.62ee2d139dbe10b03b7795bc8d228263.PNG

And compare with a FM tactic that tries to reply Favre's style of play, in 17 games, BVB has scored 44 goals, 2.58 per game (less than IRL), but conceeded only 10! 0.58 per game, much less than the first in this statistic IRL, which is Bayern, with 0.96 per game

2.thumb.PNG.cd15c138c6cd33cf8c4e0ed2aaa2bff3.PNG

Why is this happening? Is the lack of quality in the ME that produces few goals from minor teams? Or it's a AI "failure". that makes the AI managers to don't attack these big clubs, only parking the bus for 90 minutes?

4 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

huh??? how are these two even comparable? If you want to make a case at least post something meaningful to prove your point. Even if the tactic manage to replicate real life Dortmund 100% there are two big problems with this comparison:

1. Lack of a sample size from both scenarios. Which means there are a lot of random variables that can influence the outcome.

2. There are still 17 other teams in the Bundesliga. Unless you make all these 17 teams play exactly like IRL there is zero point to make a comparison IRL.

If the small sample size would show anything, it should at least be on a save where the user is not contracted to any team, and cannot interfere. So AI-only saves is the only thing that could even come close to be usable to look at those stats. And then only in big soak tests to make sure any one season is not an outlier. And I'm pretty sure SI do those things regularly. 

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On 29/05/2020 at 15:16, Broken_Record said:

First of all the developers most definitely should start considering strikers and AMs to drop way deeper when the team is defending. At the moment the distance between the most advanced player of the team to the defense line is way too big and this creates many very illogical situations. First of all it takes away a lot of compactness of teams when defending and causes way more hoof balls than needed. Second thing is that for example DMs and attacking fullbacks and wingbacks have way too much freedom to operate on the pitch.

I would love to see this on next FM.

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13 hours ago, Pasonen said:

I would love to see this on next FM.

this is a likely answer what you will get.

It is so obvious that striker doesnt know how to drop deep like Benzema Firmino, or even Giroud in world cup, but somehow there will be a "way"?

 

Everytime when I attack if I play a 4123, my striker stands between two centre back, NEVER come out to an AM position to receive the ball to turn to attack, they drop deep but not to an AMC position, that's the limitation of the engine

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Something I've noticed with regards to set pieces...

It seems quite easy to score from indirect free kicks in very central positions. In real life these are really difficult to create much from- either the taker passes out wide or puts a lofted ball to one side of the box for someone to head back across. In this game I've scored 4 or 5 goals in a season from just a dinked straight ball that gets headed in.

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Before I get fired, what exactly does Develop Ligue 2's best youth system actually mean/require?

 

zAXiHFP.png

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1 hour ago, craiigman said:

Before I get fired, what exactly does Develop Ligue 2's best youth system actually mean/require?

I think that it means you have to keep asking the board to improve all the various youth facilities

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I think it's about playing youth in your starting eleven

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I just can't play the game anymore, its just so completely dumb. Just drew a game 3-3, because a guy with long shots of 8 scored a 30 yarder and then a guy with long shots of 11 scored a 30 yarder. You work all game to create multiple chances, many of which NEVER go in because of stupid 1v1s and OP goalkeepers and then the AI, who does NOTHING all game, just randomly chooses some terrible centre mid who barely has ever scored goals in his career to suddenly turn a guy who 10 goals in over 350 games in Coutinho for a brief minute. 

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Is it possible to edit the data analysis facilities in the pre game or in game editor? I cannot find it anywhere

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Damn near impossible to play defensive football unless it starts or revolves around gegenpressing. Sit deep and destruct

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On 10/06/2020 at 09:14, craiigman said:

Before I get fired, what exactly does Develop Ligue 2's best youth system actually mean/require?

Not exactly the same one, but I had "Develop the best youth system in the country" and it was marked as passed the day a youth facilities upgrade was completed - so I think it's pretty much "upgrade youth facilities".

Facilities.thumb.jpg.dc9a12a9f10d6595ed4632a14d48bce6.jpg

 

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Il 11/6/2020 in 16:36 , tajj7 ha scritto:

I just can't play the game anymore, its just so completely dumb. Just drew a game 3-3, because a guy with long shots of 8 scored a 30 yarder and then a guy with long shots of 11 scored a 30 yarder. You work all game to create multiple chances, many of which NEVER go in because of stupid 1v1s and OP goalkeepers and then the AI, who does NOTHING all game, just randomly chooses some terrible centre mid who barely has ever scored goals in his career to suddenly turn a guy who 10 goals in over 350 games in Coutinho for a brief minute. 

 This is football and it has to be like that. The amazing thing of this sport is that a second division team can win in a single match against a top team. It's not basketball where you look at the stats of teams and you already know which will be the result.

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Decided to start a new save and 3 games into pre season these are my scores with 2 different tactics ???

20200613104239_1.jpg

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4 hours ago, jc1 said:

Decided to start a new save and 3 games into pre season these are my scores with 2 different tactics ???

20200613104239_1.jpg

Which tactic you using mate? 

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On 06/06/2020 at 13:16, zyfon5 said:

huh??? how are these two even comparable? If you want to make a case at least post something meaningful to prove your point. Even if the tactic manage to replicate real life Dortmund 100% there are two big problems with this comparison:

1. Lack of a sample size from both scenarios. Which means there are a lot of random variables that can influence the outcome.

2. There are still 17 other teams in the Bundesliga. Unless you make all these 17 teams play exactly like IRL there is zero point to make a comparison IRL.

You have posted stats from real football (Premier League) when you tried to tell a user that's the game is very close to reality (in a different thread). Now you say the opposite. Choose mate. The game is close or not to real football?

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I scored two 30 yarders in real life this week and I don't even play in amateur level anymore. I don't understand why people keep complaining about goals from long range. In real life they are a fairly common way of scoring and for me it is simply fantastic that SI have introduced them back into the game. 

In previous versions of the game we have seen way less realistic scenarios that constantly lead into goals. For example centre forwards being able to play 70-80 passes and 3-6 key passes a game and constantly setting up goals (FM 2017 for example) or wingers bombing forward down the flanks before hitting a perfect cross to far post for a tap-in (FM 2015). Or throw-ins constantly leading to one twos and free crosses to far post (ever since FM 14, I think). 

Out of these few examples long range screamers are the ones making the most sense when comparing to real football.

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17 hours ago, Delvi said:

 This is football and it has to be like that. The amazing thing of this sport is that a second division team can win in a single match against a top team. It's not basketball where you look at the stats of teams and you already know which will be the result.

 

22 minutes ago, Broken_Record said:

I scored two 30 yarders in real life this week and I don't even play in amateur level anymore. I don't understand why people keep complaining about goals from long range. In real life they are a fairly common way of scoring and for me it is simply fantastic that SI have introduced them back into the game. 

In previous versions of the game we have seen way less realistic scenarios that constantly lead into goals. For example centre forwards being able to play 70-80 passes and 3-6 key passes a game and constantly setting up goals (FM 2017 for example) or wingers bombing forward down the flanks before hitting a perfect cross to far post for a tap-in (FM 2015). Or throw-ins constantly leading to one twos and free crosses to far post (ever since FM 14, I think). 

Out of these few examples long range screamers are the ones making the most sense when comparing to real football.

Except its not real life though, there are not that many long range goals generally IRL anyway, and most of the time they come from people quite good at them. I mean occasionally a player not known for shooting will score a screamer but its like a once in a career thing, only people like Messi or Coutinho or De Burne etc. consistently score outside the box.

But in game, people consistently score outside of the box who are really bad at it and have zero history of scoring long range goals in real life. I had a guy in another save score 3 long range shots across two games against me, he had 1 professional goal in over 300 career appearances, but suddenly in game he bangs in 3 screamers in a season, against the literal best keeper in the world that I had in my save. 

Same with headers, people who are terrible at headers score headers consistently.

If it happened once or twice a season that some awful centre-mid scored a 30 yard goal against a World Class keeper, then yeh that is fine. But it happens multiple times a season.

Meanwhile world class strikers at the other end will miss 50% or more of their 1v1s and clear cut chances against average keepers.

The match engine of this years version is terrible, there is so much wrong with it that is makes it horrible to watch. 

Another terrible example is a really average team playing a defensive low block, against an intense press, from a team good at pressing, can somehow maintain 90% plus pass completion rates, and complete well over 600 passes in a game, with centre backs completing 80 or 90 passes.

YET in the same game they register zero shots on target and their striker completes 8 passes in the whole game. 

So somehow a very defensive, average team, against a better team doing an intense press can play amazing levels of keep ball amongst about 5 or 6 of their players. 

In fact you can see it here -

DImXQTV.png

0SeQtNk.png

66% possession, zero shots.

Two of the centre backs attempted over 100 passes and completed over 90%, their keeper attempted 88 passes, so they were basically playing keep ball at the back with 3 players.

Those players have a passing ability of 9, 10 and 14. 

The ME is completely rubbish. 

image.gif

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3 hours ago, tajj7 said:

 

 

Except its not real life though, there are not that many long range goals generally IRL anyway, and most of the time they come from people quite good at them. I mean occasionally a player not known for shooting will score a screamer but its like a once in a career thing, only people like Messi or Coutinho or De Burne etc. consistently score outside the box.

But in game, people consistently score outside of the box who are really bad at it and have zero history of scoring long range goals in real life. I had a guy in another save score 3 long range shots across two games against me, he had 1 professional goal in over 300 career appearances, but suddenly in game he bangs in 3 screamers in a season, against the literal best keeper in the world that I had in my save. 

Same with headers, people who are terrible at headers score headers consistently.

If it happened once or twice a season that some awful centre-mid scored a 30 yard goal against a World Class keeper, then yeh that is fine. But it happens multiple times a season.

Meanwhile world class strikers at the other end will miss 50% or more of their 1v1s and clear cut chances against average keepers.

The match engine of this years version is terrible, there is so much wrong with it that is makes it horrible to watch. 

Another terrible example is a really average team playing a defensive low block, against an intense press, from a team good at pressing, can somehow maintain 90% plus pass completion rates, and complete well over 600 passes in a game, with centre backs completing 80 or 90 passes.

YET in the same game they register zero shots on target and their striker completes 8 passes in the whole game. 

So somehow a very defensive, average team, against a better team doing an intense press can play amazing levels of keep ball amongst about 5 or 6 of their players. 

In fact you can see it here -

DImXQTV.png

0SeQtNk.png

66% possession, zero shots.

Two of the centre backs attempted over 100 passes and completed over 90%, their keeper attempted 88 passes, so they were basically playing keep ball at the back with 3 players.

Those players have a passing ability of 9, 10 and 14. 

The ME is completely rubbish. 

image.gif

Is this your starting formation that is being shown here?

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Cadoni said:

You have posted stats from real football (Premier League) when you tried to tell a user that's the game is very close to reality (in a different thread). Now you say the opposite. Choose mate. The game is close or not to real football?

These are two different scenarios. The previous one the question is about shots to goals ratio hence I have posted a league with 20 teams which is not a large sample size but good enough to prove that you don't get more goals because you have more shots. You can also look it up with different leagues IRL and in game and see if this trend is the same. Of course the comparison is not perfect but it is good enough to prove a point. For the Dortmund case he is asking why does Dortmund not score similar amount of goals even if the tactic is 100% the same. Hence naturally for a valid comparison to work all the other external factors must be constant which is different to the previous case. If he asked why does on average the bundesliga teams not score similar amount of goals like IRL then how other teams play will become less important. For this Dortmund case the sample size is too small (17 games) to make a comparison. If the OP had let's say simulate the league for 20 times then he will have a valid comparison even if other problems are there. The sample size is important here as with any types of statistical analysis as it will reduce the effect of other compounding factors. My point is if you want to prove something at least do it in a proper way please. The game can never replicate 100% real life football but some figures can be controlled by the developer to match real life football but some are not. If you want to further discuss can PM me. Leave the thread for others.

Edited by zyfon5

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3 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

Is this your starting formation that is being shown here?

Yes but don't blame my tactics, its basically no different from a 4-1-2-2-1 that loads of teams use.  Which you could basically do by moving the wingers a slot forward, and other people might have less attacking roles in midfield than me.

Plus it's a high press with a high line of engagement and high defensive line, so the midfield and striker are close together.  I'm currently top of the Bundesliga using that formation and I'm top scorers in the league. 

 

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7 hours ago, tajj7 said:

If it happened once or twice a season that some awful centre-mid scored a 30 yard goal against a World Class keeper, then yeh that is fine. But it happens multiple times a season.

I have to add to this whats also wrong in general in fm where players with bad/mediocre skills scoring from distance. 

1) They can make a shot too quickly. Too easy to ready a shot and opposition not reacting when player taking a shot.

2) Why he is given so much space to make a shot?

3) Why would a player who knows he cant shoot very well from far force a shot away anyway? He would not even think about shooting.

I like to think in real football roles,dicipline and teamwork have so big meaning that theres very little space for selfish acts in situations where you are in no hurry.

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5 minutes ago, tajj7 said:

Yes but don't blame my tactics, its basically no different from a 4-1-2-2-1 that loads of teams use.  Which you could basically do by moving the wingers a slot forward, and other people might have less attacking roles in midfield than me.

Plus it's a high press with a high line of engagement and high defensive line, so the midfield and striker are close together.  I'm currently top of the Bundesliga using that formation and I'm top scorers in the league. 

 

Just want to confirm that this is the formation that you are using. Pressing against 3 centre backs with a lone striker and two wingers that are set deep is different than against 2 CB. Do you face the same problem when you face teams with 2 CB?

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Just now, Pasonen said:

I have to add to this whats also wrong in general in fm where players with bad/mediocre skills scoring from distance. 

1) They can make a shot too quickly. Too easy to ready a shot and opposition not reacting when player taking a shot.

2) Why he is given so much space to make a shot?

3) Why would a player who knows he cant shoot very well from far force a shot away anyway? He would not even think about shooting.

I like to think in real football roles,dicipline and teamwork have so big meaning that theres very little space for selfish acts in situations where you are in no hurry.

 

Well yeh especially when i have a press and high work rate centre mids, and as you say these players aren't only bad with shooting, their first touch etc. is not great, oh and they often do this on their weaker foot too and first time.

To me, it often feels that attributes mean little to the match engine, people who are not very good at dribbling seem to dribble like Messi, people who can't shoot from distance score 30 yard screamers, strikers with poor finishing.composure/technique etc. score chances as well or better than players far superior to them, players with good positioning and anticipation seem to just have no clue where they are supposed to be on the pitch, top level keepers can't seem to save simple shots or regularly get beaten at the near post, not because of good shots because they literally wander off into some weird position. 

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6 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

Just want to confirm that this is the formation that you are using. Pressing against 3 centre backs with a lone striker and two wingers that are set deep is different than against 2 CB. Do you face the same problem when you face teams with 2 CB?

It's not about my tactics, it's about to how the AI plays and how silly the game looks because of it. 

Can you give me a single example in real life of a mid table/lower team, doing a low block against a better team, having 66% possession, almost the entirety of it in their own half, if not their own third, and multiple players completing over a 100 passes?

Oh and also having zero shots. 

One example.

 

How teams try to play in those situations is either a low block which involves lots of defensive play, which is deep, narrow and will involve a lots of blocks, clearances, etc. but always results in low possession, or they will try and be more pre-active, play more on the front foot, and press given the right triggers and try to counter attack with more numbers, but again usually leads to lower possession. 

If a team IRL tried to basically play constant keep ball in their own half, with very few forward passes, they would get hammered.  Because they are simply not good enough to do it, even against a largely non-pressing team it wouldn't work. 

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Posted (edited)

Game after game after game like this. You build a tactic that completely dominates matches, and you're penalised by the opposition scoring from a ludicrously smaller number of shots.

 1771115347_ScreenShot2020-06-14at08_35_43.thumb.png.2dad3ce740a14109d9c09fd2cb0d8c95.png

Edit: And then, of course, the very next home game... 

521707674_ScreenShot2020-06-14at08_58_40.thumb.png.e5d13d59f5e169d71e7794060dd0d81f.png

 

Edited by Eddie Boop

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2 hours ago, tajj7 said:

If a team IRL tried to basically play constant keep ball in their own half, with very few forward passes, they would get hammered.  Because they are simply not good enough to do it, even against a largely non-pressing team it wouldn't work. 

I agree with all the points raised above. And the AI in the game is over defensive we all know about that. But a team playing with one more man at the back is more likely to keep the ball if you do not press correctly. I suspect the AI will not be able to replicate these numbers if they play with normal 4 at the back. However if your main complaint is the AI being too defensive I have no issues with that. 

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Posted (edited)

It feels like this game just don't want me to succeed. I had a very enjoyable save with Newcastle where I managed to take them all the way från the Championship back to PL with no cheating. I acutally found some tactics that works for me. Now, in PL, I lose almost every game because of set pieces. It does'nt matter if I dominate possesion, it always (hyperbole and proverbal) cuts to some out-of-context set pieces for the other team (on extended highlights) and they score a goal. It's exhausting.

And, no. I am not saying the developers are on some deliberate mission to make the game bat poo crazy hard to play. I'm just saying there's something new every year I have to learn and master to not fail at FM while I am still struggling with basic tactics on kindergarten level.. 

Edited by Viking
my hovercraft is full of eels

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40 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

I agree with all the points raised above. And the AI in the game is over defensive we all know about that. But a team playing with one more man at the back is more likely to keep the ball if you do not press correctly. I suspect the AI will not be able to replicate these numbers if they play with normal 4 at the back. However if your main complaint is the AI being too defensive I have no issues with that. 

It's not just how stupidly defensive they are, it's also the fact they can keep absurd possession and absurd pass completion rates whilst doing it, basically playing keep ball in their own half for the whole game, with average players.

Defenders with a passing ability of like 11, should not be able to have pass completion rates of 90-95% from over 100 attempted passes, whilst against a superior opposition, often who press. It's just absurd and creates absurd football and absurd unrealistic statistics.

I've also tested it with 3 strikers against 3 at the back and it doesn't matter, and also I've had back 4 teams able to do it as well, its just a massive flaw in the Match Engine, amongst many others which make this years ME IMO one of the worst by far for years and absurd that SI have basically abandoned it months ago. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Eddie Boop said:

Game after game after game like this. You build a tactic that completely dominates matches, and you're penalised by the opposition scoring from a ludicrously smaller number of shots.

 1771115347_ScreenShot2020-06-14at08_35_43.thumb.png.2dad3ce740a14109d9c09fd2cb0d8c95.png

Edit: And then, of course, the very next home game... 

521707674_ScreenShot2020-06-14at08_58_40.thumb.png.e5d13d59f5e169d71e7794060dd0d81f.png

 

Spoiler don't download knap's (or Totalfootballfan's). In particular any tactic that sees no defend Duty Players outside the centre backs (the AI Managers don't manage like this AT ALL).

And that#s not a dig. Tactics are Overall clearly successful, so it doesn't happen that oft at all, but they've always had their drawbacks. Pep in the Prem in tendency Always only ever concedes off fewer shots, as he's so attacking. Every time the Opposition wins the ball back, however few times, they're in his half with few passes to win a shot, a foul, or a set piece or whatever. Some of These are then converted into Goals, on the Occasion. This would happen for as Long as he concedes shot throughout a Season.

This is even more attacking than Pep, usually.

That's on the defending end. On the attacking end, shoving all players forward makes it easier for defenders to get a foot into a move. The area they have to defend becomes smaller. Depending how the Opposition then lines up, the amount of set pieces (and SOT from them, not seldom  pressured headers oft mostly saved) goes through the roof.

 

edit: Sorry for the random capslock. I hate the auto-correction of the Edge browser. :( 

Edited by Svenc

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, zyfon5 said:

I agree with all the points raised above. And the AI in the game is over defensive we all know about that. But a team playing with one more man at the back is more likely to keep the ball if you do not press correctly. I suspect the AI will not be able to replicate these numbers if they play with normal 4 at the back. However if your main complaint is the AI being too defensive I have no issues with that. 

Here is another example with 4 at the back -

XUb6XlA.jpg

Granted they had more shots this time, and actually had a chance (but it was a standard perfect hoof over the top from centre-backs who turn into Gerrard for a second and baffles my defenders, another thing the game does far too often) but look at the passes -

KdM0xBv.png

That is a centre-back completing 148 passes in a game, out of 153, against a press. And that player has passing 11, first touch of 10, technique of 10, and vision of 9. 

And look at the action zones -

s3sIWVt.png

Almost 50% of the entire play in the game, was them basically playing keep ball in their own half. 

As I was winning after about 60 minutes I dropped my press, the defensive line and engagement line back down, to see if it would encourage them to come out a bit. 

Which it didn't, they played the exact same way.  I am basically matched man for man in the middle, with 2/3 of my centre-mids having very good work rate and stamina, along with good defensive abilities, along with a pressing forward who has 17 work rate, 15 stamina, 17 anticipation, 15 pace, 15 acceleration, 15 stamina, but apparently was unable to get the ball of them barely at all.

 

It's baffling and makes no sense. 

I have play out from defence, shorter tempo, a ball playing defender and a standard centre-back, with a deep lying playmaker and excellent passers throughout the team, but my team seemingly can't keep the ball anywhere near as well. #

 

Their back 4 plus the two DMs have passing abilities of 11, 13, 11, 13, 15, and 12.  My back 4 plus 3 centre-mids have passing abilities of 13, 13, 15, 12, 15, 13, and 14, and I definitely have people with better first touch, decisions, technique, vision etc.  

The game makes no sense to me.  What am I supposed to do against a team of average passers, that can play tiki-taka like Barcelona, except don't go anywhere? 

In fact I might go put this in the tactics forum. 

 

Edited by tajj7

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11 hours ago, Eddie Boop said:

Game after game after game like this. You build a tactic that completely dominates matches, and you're penalised by the opposition scoring from a ludicrously smaller number of shots.

 1771115347_ScreenShot2020-06-14at08_35_43.thumb.png.2dad3ce740a14109d9c09fd2cb0d8c95.png

Edit: And then, of course, the very next home game... 

521707674_ScreenShot2020-06-14at08_58_40.thumb.png.e5d13d59f5e169d71e7794060dd0d81f.png

 

This is not a coincidence. Key element in this game is motivation. Tactics and attributes are basically irrelevant if your players aren't properly motivated for a match. Press conferences (especially when managers play 'mind games') and team talks determine the outcome of the match more than tactics. You can have superb tactics, but if you don't say the right thing, players will most likely be 'blocked' from having a high match rating. I've been playing alot, and from what I have seen I believe this is the reason matches like this happen pretty often.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kunglao991 said:

Tactics and attributes are basically irrelevant if your players aren't properly motivated for a match. 

There's an element to that, also in how Players grow frustrated and the bombarded team growing in confidence. But the primary reason some see more, some less of this is tactical, 100%. This includes the AI, however. If the AI wouldn't apply those defensive tactics, in fact, this wouldn't come to pass much at all. It also wouldn't score so many of its goals from the set piece (that is, when it scores at all)

- AI likes to dig itself in. Statistically one-sided Matches then are the norm (in particular on FM's flawed Level of stats)
- Ultra-attacking tactics  meanwhile such as the ones used here or taken Inspiration from are legion, even accross this board. Oft they have no defenders proper outside the centre backs 24/7, whilst the AI may field a legion of such. Pushing everybody Forward meanwhile also can have aforementioned averse effect on the attacking end, with additionially shots primarily from the set piece; and/or in littel space in general

It's only a matter of time until the point drop occurs. If your tactic doesn't manage to concede zero shots, you will concede goals across the season. Plus, whenever the AI scores, it will be off few shots by definition. It cannot ever be otherwise, as that's how the AI approaches the matches. If the game were to be realistic however, These Point Drops would occur more than they do. In Football, Teams are punished for less adventurous even across the highest Levels.
 

Edited by Svenc

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1 hour ago, Kunglao991 said:

This is not a coincidence. Key element in this game is motivation. Tactics and attributes are basically irrelevant if your players aren't properly motivated for a match. Press conferences (especially when managers play 'mind games') and team talks determine the outcome of the match more than tactics. You can have superb tactics, but if you don't say the right thing, players will most likely be 'blocked' from having a high match rating. I've been playing alot, and from what I have seen I believe this is the reason matches like this happen pretty often.

I did a wee experiment with this by replaying a game I should easily win 3-4 times, each time giving a different team talk. Each game was different, players ratings varied from mid-high 7's and winning very easily, to a mix of low 6's to mid 7's and either a poorly played win or a crap draw.

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One of the things I hate the most about this version is that most of the games that I loss my team had more than 5 opportunities :mad:

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Said it before, but worth saying again. As others have posted, morale, talks, players personality and just about every other facet of ‘management’ have a far bigger influence in this version than any other before. Tactics are not the saviour as they once were. If you’re seeing wonky one sided games and not getting a result, goals only from set pieces, strikers missing loads of clear cut chances etc then the chances are you’ve not said the right thing in a press conference, you’ve picked the wrong player, the moon is in the wrong part of the sky. Doesn’t make sense a lot of the time, but most of the time, on reflection, I personally know when I’ve made a ‘fm’ mistake. Can be deeply frustrating at times, but at least the apparent randomness also makes it interesting. Gets boring very quickly winning multiple titles with Hampton and Richmond.

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12 hours ago, Kunglao991 said:

Key element in this game is motivation. Tactics and attributes are basically irrelevant if your players aren't properly motivated for a match.

But then on the other hand you have tactical masterminds like @Rashidi who sometimes don't even do team talks or press conferences, and they still do incredibly well, because they know the tactical side of things in and out and know exactly what changes to make. I'm pretty sure I heard Rashidi himself mention a few times in his videos, that he doesn't believe in team talks, tactical familiarity and all other "distractions" very much. In some of his YT series you can see him skipping all of that, playing a different formation every match and still battering the crap out of AI... :lol:

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11 hours ago, JDhamm said:

But then on the other hand you have tactical masterminds like @Rashidi who sometimes don't even do team talks or press conferences, and they still do incredibly well, because they know the tactical side of things in and out and know exactly what changes to make. I'm pretty sure I heard Rashidi himself mention a few times in his videos, that he doesn't believe in team talks, tactical familiarity and all other "distractions" very much. In some of his YT series you can see him skipping all of that, playing a different formation every match and still battering the crap out of AI... :lol:

Team talks just aren't as effective as people make them out to be. I did an article once where I gave the complete opposite responses and still did well. It's overrated. How hard is it really to get a team talk 'wrong'? Sure you may be off a little, but we do have feedback on that. Even then, it's not going to be a disaster.

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I'm enjoying my save. Top of the league. I use an AMC. He's doing well so far and we're past the halfway mark. 3 Assists in the last match as well. That was against the bottom team.

e958e4eccd6417689a459ce070cef915.png

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Something I've noticed so far is that teams can survive in the Premier League with very low points totals.

I'm only two seasons in but in both cases you could survive with 29 points, which is lower than any season I believe?

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19 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

Team talks just aren't as effective as people make them out to be. I did an article once where I gave the complete opposite responses and still did well. It's overrated. How hard is it really to get a team talk 'wrong'? Sure you may be off a little, but we do have feedback on that. Even then, it's not going to be a disaster.

Team talks perhaps, but the media can be a kiss of death. Doesn’t happen much anymore as it’s not difficult to learn the patter but every once in a while when scrolling through the questions the game ‘hangs’ for a split second after I’ve given an answer before moving on to the next question and I just know it’s the AI calculating how to either give me a 0-0 or a total hiding in my upcoming game. It happens every time.

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20 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

Team talks just aren't as effective as people make them out to be. I did an article once where I gave the complete opposite responses and still did well. It's overrated. How hard is it really to get a team talk 'wrong'? Sure you may be off a little, but we do have feedback on that. Even then, it's not going to be a disaster.

Often when I've looked into saves where people have said morale or team talks are too powerful, they've usually been doing been doing very little from a tactical standpoint. If you're not doing much tactically then other factors become more important. But they should realise this is not the same as them being more important overall, more that they are limiting themselves

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6 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

Team talks perhaps, but the media can be a kiss of death. Doesn’t happen much anymore as it’s not difficult to learn the patter but every once in a while when scrolling through the questions the game ‘hangs’ for a split second after I’ve given an answer before moving on to the next question and I just know it’s the AI calculating how to either give me a 0-0 or a total hiding in my upcoming game. It happens every time.

That's fundamentally not how the game works by the way. 

Not only does media not have that level of impact, that's also not how matches are calculated

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

That's fundamentally not how the game works by the way. 

Not only does media not have that level of impact, that's also not how matches are calculated

Ok. So explain to me my observation then? Why does the game hang for a split second on certain answers that then result in a not so satisfactory result the game after? Coincidence? What, every time? Please explain to me how the game works ... and if media doesn’t have that impact please explain why it’s there in the first place. You’re suggesting it has zero impact, which is BS, by the way. Matches are also calculated by the miriad of decisions made by the user. But you’re suggesting press conferences are immune to that? So please, do explain in greater depth... how the game works...

There was a reason Ferguson played media mind games ...

Edited by Tyburn

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9 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

Ok. So explain to me my observation then? Why does the game hang for a split second on certain answers that then result in a not so satisfactory result the game after? Coincidence? What, every time? Please explain to me how the game works ... and if media doesn’t have that impact please explain why it’s there in the first place. You’re suggesting it has zero impact, which is BS, by the way. Matches are also calculated by the miriad of decisions made by the user. But you’re suggesting press conferences are immune to that? So please, do explain in greater depth... how the game works...

I have no idea why it's hanging at that point, it doesn't hang on any save I've ever played, but it is a coincidence. And I didn't suggest media has no effect at all my exact words were "Not only does media not have that level of impact, that's also not how matches are calculated"  Saying something "wrong" is not solely going to lead to you winning or losing a game.

 For how the game works.

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@themadsheep2001 Thanks for linking that. Much more useful to read something informative.

I suppose it’s a little like the VAR decisions ALWAYS being a pen in the box and ALWAYS being a FK on edge of box. Some see it, others don’t.

It may not be how the game is supposed to work. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Feedback right?

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Guest
Posted (edited)

- Which are the top reputation team in FM20?
- What's the maximum reputation a team can achieve? (10000?)

Edited by Guest

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