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Football Manager 2020 January & February Transfer Updates Feedback Thread

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1 hour ago, Travis Bickle said:

The point is that the more you play the game, the more certain things become obvious. You aren't playing Football, you're playing the ME. 

The best conversion rate comes from wing players who are fast, can cut inside and score. I find it pointless to try and implement a counter attacking style because if you get a quick through ball to your striker who is one on one with the keeper he'll miss most of the time. Defensively you're at the mercy of AI set pieces and long shots. 

My point is, why bother playing when I am limited to specific tactical styles and methods of scoring? Sure it's possible to implement different styles but the conversion rate makes you far less successful. 

For me, if one on one's had a better success rate and AI set pieces were massively toned back then I'd say the ME would be in acceptable condition. But how SI let this ME, the AI Set pieces get through them is beyond me. 

Well this is precisely what I'm getting at and where my concerns are based - limited ways of playing and scoring and that bring enjoyment. I've done well in FM20, but I'd be lying if I said I was happy with how I was winning games. It seemed my tactics were played out to a very limited extent and the goals were mostly nerfed towards set pieces or cross to back post for small winger to head in....or, fullback with barely any long range shooting ability spanking one in from the edge of the area.

I've gone back to FM18. Not perfect as far as ME is concerned, but much more rewarding from a tactical implementation standpoint. 

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16 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

i guess im the lucky one here then. 70% or 44% possession i still can win. even managed to FMed the AI a few times. currently on a run of 13th clean sheet.(hopefully i dont jinx it:D) initially conceding quite a lot from set pieces but i reviewed my set up carefully and make some tweaks and has been seeing way less set pieces conceded now. just scored a one on one from a corner counter from a recent game. u can play all kinds of playing style if u look closely at the tactics forum.

what do u mean by playing the ME? are u referring to the previous versions where there is a certain tactic that is OP? (3 strikers tactic anyone?)

It's not about winning. It's about how the win happens. See the post below you.

 

Just now, Kingstontom88 said:

Well this is precisely what I'm getting at and where my concerns are based - limited ways of playing and scoring and that bring enjoyment. I've done well in FM20, but I'd be lying if I said I was happy with how I was winning games. It seemed my tactics were played out to a very limited extent and the goals were mostly nerfed towards set pieces or cross to back post for small winger to head in....or, fullback with barely any long range shooting ability spanking one in from the edge of the area.

I've gone back to FM18. Not perfect as far as ME is concerned, but much more rewarding from a tactical implementation standpoint. 

Exactly. I've had a lot of success on FM20, but it is never really "me". I'm just doing what needs to be done to get the win given the glaring problems with the ME. Win I set up a high pressing, counter attack 4-4-2 I expect to see more winning goals from through balls to the forward, rather than an inverted wing-back smacking it from 35 yards which is probably more common in my games.

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4 minutes ago, Travis Bickle said:

It's not about winning. It's about how the win happens. See the post below you.

i get all sorts of goals so far. currently playing a tiki taka style and most of my goals come from the central area. a small portion from set pieces and a few from crosses which seems pretty normal to me. on another team of the same save i play a wing style which rely heavily on crosses to the strikers. both work well for me. i have played like 5 very different tactics in the current ME and all work according to plan. maybe im just lucky?

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41 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

i get all sorts of goals so far. currently playing a tiki taka style and most of my goals come from the central area. a small portion from set pieces and a few from crosses which seems pretty normal to me. on another team of the same save i play a wing style which rely heavily on crosses to the strikers. both work well for me. i have played like 5 very different tactics in the current ME and all work according to plan. maybe im just lucky?

You're clearly a good FM player, who has managed to get your tactical plan to play out on the pitch. I've played for many years and this is without doubt been the most frustrating version for trying to get my ideas implemented. Never been an issue before (once tactic has become close to fluid understanding), and I'm a successful manager for the most part.

The sounding off in this thread means I'm not the only one - you appear to be one of the select few on here who have found a way around it. Wish I could, then I'd love this edition, I'm certain of it.

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one more issue

We asked for more quick manager hiring in last year. But looks like it only longer in FM20

Real, Barca and few clubs fired managers after season endind, for now 21 of June and they still no hire new managers. In June, a time for transfers preparations!

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I'll be very interested to know how all styles and tiki taka work well in FM'20 open play and how goals scored is satisfactory and have excitement. I think FM'20 was promoted for better striker movement; yes better than '19 version for sure. But much better than '17 version? Luckily I've that version still so I can re install and test.

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57 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

one more issue

We asked for more quick manager hiring in last year. But looks like it only longer in FM20

Real, Barca and few clubs fired managers after season endind, for now 21 of June and they still no hire new managers. In June, a time for transfers preparations!

This one does my head in.

As a guy who predominantly does unemployed journeyman saves, it drives me nuts. One time I applied for a job, there was a big CL Qualifying round, they waited 4 weeks until 1 day before the game to hire me. No pre-season no nothing. Clubs should take 2 weeks MAX in the off-season to hire a manager.

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3 hours ago, Travis Bickle said:

The best conversion rate comes from wing players who are fast, can cut inside and score. I find it pointless to try and implement a counter attacking style because if you get a quick through ball to your striker who is one on one with the keeper he'll miss most of the time. Defensively you're at the mercy of AI set pieces and long shots.

I'm sorry, but you're talking nonsense.

Counter-attacking style that has a team predicted to finish mid-table, sitting on top after 20 games:

YKC0EJq.png

JfrQCbL.png

Both starting strikers are currently league's top scorers:

3nO6UFK.png

Plenty of action coming from all areas of the pitch, with almost as many assists from through balls, as from crosses:

OaUk47e.png

t7lij1v.png

Perhaps I'm playing a different version of the game, who knows. All I know is if I'd put as much time into whining in this thread as you do (no offense, but half of the posts are yours), I'd probably struggle understanding the game too.

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9 minutes ago, Zemahh said:

I'm sorry, but you're talking nonsense.

Counter-attacking style that has a team predicted to finish mid-table, sitting on top after 20 games:

YKC0EJq.png

JfrQCbL.png

Both starting strikers are currently league's top scorers:

3nO6UFK.png

Plenty of action coming from all areas of the pitch, with almost as many assists from through balls, as from crosses:

OaUk47e.png

t7lij1v.png

Perhaps I'm playing a different version of the game, who knows. All I know is if I'd put as much time into whining in this thread as you do (no offense, but half of the posts are yours), I'd probably struggle understanding the game too.

So what you're saying is that a lack of goals from strikers, which I too have struggled with, means he doesn't understand the game? Are you certain it is that and not a problem with strikers consistently fluffing fantastic opportunities, because I can guarantee you that in my saves strikers have done exactly that. They have been put into awesome scoring positions only to squander chance after chance. 

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Zemahh said:

I'm sorry, but you're talking nonsense.

Counter-attacking style that has a team predicted to finish mid-table, sitting on top after 20 games:

 

Go to the top of the page and read my post. 

I didn't say it was impossible to win playing different styles, I am talking about conversion rate and what tactical style is most efficient. I'm pretty sure there is a consensus in this thread that one on ones need to be improved and some statistical analysis was done a few pages back showing that indeed, strikers miss WAY too many chances compared to real life in this game. It's not the most efficient way to play, the most efficient was is to play against the glaringly obvious problems the ME has. This starts with wing play

Quote

Perhaps I'm playing a different version of the game, who knows. All I know is if I'd put as much time into whining in this thread as you do (no offense, but half of the posts are yours), I'd probably struggle understanding the game too.

Half the posts aren't mine, I think you're going bash mode for no reason.

Edited by Travis Bickle

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1 hour ago, dolph11 said:

So what you're saying is that a lack of goals from strikers, which I too have struggled with, means he doesn't understand the game? Are you certain it is that and not a problem with strikers consistently fluffing fantastic opportunities, because I can guarantee you that in my saves strikers have done exactly that. They have been put into awesome scoring positions only to squander chance after chance. 

Loaded up my save earlier, in a game we had 6 clear chances inside the box and failed to score any of them, five of which were on target, clear sight of goal, no defenders in front of them etc. 

Five of those chances were between my two strikers who have 16 and 17 for finishing, composure and balance. :Bowen:

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Posted (edited)
3 часа назад, Travis Bickle сказал:

This one does my head in.

As a guy who predominantly does unemployed journeyman saves, it drives me nuts. One time I applied for a job, there was a big CL Qualifying round, they waited 4 weeks until 1 day before the game to hire me. No pre-season no nothing. Clubs should take 2 weeks MAX in the off-season to hire a manager.

I play journeyman right now. Young manager which promoted for Premier Division and next season finished 12th place despite media prediction was clear 18 place. No, we will hire some another guy which will fired 6 months later :thup::lol:

Btw Barca found new manager from 23 June until 6 August :) 

1951790134_Image7.png.d70424c568a2a95818543c47928c716d.png

Clarence Seedorf is new manager of Real Madrid. From Willem II for Madrid with salary ~10mln euro p/y :D 

maxresdefault.jpg

Tbh its better in compare of FM18 where manager left club before last matchday of season etc, but some cases so unexpected

Edited by Novem9

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10 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

i get all sorts of goals so far. currently playing a tiki taka style and most of my goals come from the central area. a small portion from set pieces and a few from crosses which seems pretty normal to me. on another team of the same save i play a wing style which rely heavily on crosses to the strikers. both work well for me. i have played like 5 very different tactics in the current ME and all work according to plan. maybe im just lucky?

Put your crash helmet on mate, even though this is a feedback thread to an update no positive comments are welcome as I have found out, a big baby tried to shoot me down and failed just because I am doing well with the ME, maybe it was sleepy, who knows.

People post stats bemoaning that real world strikers are scoring more than the FM equivalents are, oooh spooky! so a simulation is not bang on, what? you want exact numbers now? Well I have a real player that is scoring more than he should do according to the general blah around here so where does that leave your statistics?

There seems to be a lot of effort into slagging of the ME and not enough trying to form a workable tactic. I have and I am really enjoying the game, you know, the same game that we all bought.

Try this...

Learn the game.

Stop moaning.

Take losses on the chin, it happens.

I do not get beaten with free kicks and I don't win with free kicks, set pieces really do not impact on my game at all, CCC's are not gimmies like in golf, they are good chances but not definite goals so missing them is going to happen, big deal.

Well that's me, waiting for the onslaught.

Take it easy folks...

 

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, baris28 said:

I'll be very interested to know how all styles and tiki taka work well in FM'20 open play and how goals scored is satisfactory and have excitement. I think FM'20 was promoted for better striker movement; yes better than '19 version for sure. But much better than '17 version? Luckily I've that version still so I can re install and test.

Tiki taka style is still viable in fm20. Kindly head over to the tactics forum. Is fm20 really better in terms of striker movement? I've been seeing a very clear decrease in striker passes and dribble numbers compared to fm18 and previous versions so there is definitely an issue there.

8 hours ago, craigcwwe said:

Loaded up my save earlier, in a game we had 6 clear chances inside the box and failed to score any of them, five of which were on target, clear sight of goal, no defenders in front of them etc. 

Five of those chances were between my two strikers who have 16 and 17 for finishing, composure and balance. :Bowen:

Is it happening most of the games? 

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1 hour ago, Old Joe Clarke said:

People post stats bemoaning that real world strikers are scoring more than the FM equivalents are, oooh spooky! so a simulation is not bang on, what? you want exact numbers now? Well I have a real player that is scoring more than he should do according to the general blah around here so where does that leave your statistics?

 

 

 

 

 

Can I have a look at these stats? From what I have found in this game, the goalscoring stats almost match up perfectly in real life no matter which version of FM. I have not seen a single outlier so far. Will be interested if someone could show me an outlier.

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We all noted the issues here, well many of us did. They are known and it is what is for now. But this post i'd like to be more positive. We all know the ME issues sadly but i was looking how i could just find that enjoyment in the game. And somehow im having it right now which is very nice. In the beginning i was really struggeling with tactics and failing in the game. We have seen many unbalanced things happening in the game also. But after seeing a nice thread here where that member told about using the preset tactics, i thought yeah why not, lets do that again and look if it works and hopefully bring less frustrations. Happily it is. I just like to enjoy squadbuilding and play the games with no full focus on tactics all the time. Now im using the tiki taka preset tactic as that one is close to my football vision. From there you have a basic, a start. I use extended highlights and im happy with the game now, the statistics are also very nice. In the beginning i had some difficulty with scoring but somehow i fixed it, but more important because i had a clear basic tactic where i know how it plays, what its vision is. And against stronger teams i found out that changing hold shape to counter is effective and also untick play out of defence because otherwise sometimes it brings my defenders in danger against the pressing of strong teams. 

But the important thing is for me, i have now a clear tactic of play and i dont need to stress all the time if my tactic is good balanced or not etc. I have with those preset tactics a basic to start from. Ofcourse those who like to go full into own tactics and find something working is nice also and perhaps more satisfying. But for me i'd like to enjoy, do squadbuilding, and just play matches with not to much focus on tactics all the time. Just in the game, some tweaks when needed. And in the game, there is less frustrations from the ME (just some issues that are known). I still see to many set piece goals, but many in my favour, so im oke with it then hehe. 

Im in a Ajax save now and had a nice 1st season, using tiki taka preset and went into semi finals of the CL and the 2nd season was very satisfying. Won the triple, CL final vs PSg 1-0 as you can see in the picture. If i might give some advice to those who struggle with tactics and winning games. Try a preset tactic, where you have a balanced tactic but also a foundation of how your team is playing, try it out, give it time and from there you can tweak things a little bit when needed to make it more satisfying for your own. 

Ajax cl.png

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3 hours ago, Old Joe Clarke said:

 

There seems to be a lot of effort into slagging of the ME and not enough trying to form a workable tactic. I have and I am really enjoying the game, you know, the same game that we all bought.

I've never once bemoaned any lack of success, and I don't think many here have. I've done very well on FM20, I've won everything I've wanted with everyone I wanted to win with. 

I'm just unhappy with the play style. It's my right as a paying customer to offer my thoughts. 

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Posted (edited)

wow! just noticed 34 years old reputable player started to be a temporary manager in AI club :thup:

Edited by Novem9

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4 ore fa, f.zaarour ha scritto:

We all noted the issues here, well many of us did. They are known and it is what is for now. But this post i'd like to be more positive. We all know the ME issues sadly but i was looking how i could just find that enjoyment in the game. And somehow im having it right now which is very nice. In the beginning i was really struggeling with tactics and failing in the game. We have seen many unbalanced things happening in the game also. But after seeing a nice thread here where that member told about using the preset tactics, i thought yeah why not, lets do that again and look if it works and hopefully bring less frustrations. Happily it is. I just like to enjoy squadbuilding and play the games with no full focus on tactics all the time. Now im using the tiki taka preset tactic as that one is close to my football vision. From there you have a basic, a start. I use extended highlights and im happy with the game now, the statistics are also very nice. In the beginning i had some difficulty with scoring but somehow i fixed it, but more important because i had a clear basic tactic where i know how it plays, what its vision is. And against stronger teams i found out that changing hold shape to counter is effective and also untick play out of defence because otherwise sometimes it brings my defenders in danger against the pressing of strong teams. 

But the important thing is for me, i have now a clear tactic of play and i dont need to stress all the time if my tactic is good balanced or not etc. I have with those preset tactics a basic to start from. Ofcourse those who like to go full into own tactics and find something working is nice also and perhaps more satisfying. But for me i'd like to enjoy, do squadbuilding, and just play matches with not to much focus on tactics all the time. Just in the game, some tweaks when needed. And in the game, there is less frustrations from the ME (just some issues that are known). I still see to many set piece goals, but many in my favour, so im oke with it then hehe. 

Im in a Ajax save now and had a nice 1st season, using tiki taka preset and went into semi finals of the CL and the 2nd season was very satisfying. Won the triple, CL final vs PSg 1-0 as you can see in the picture. If i might give some advice to those who struggle with tactics and winning games. Try a preset tactic, where you have a balanced tactic but also a foundation of how your team is playing, try it out, give it time and from there you can tweak things a little bit when needed to make it more satisfying for your own. 

Ajax cl.png

So you're basically saying to forget all that FM became great and famous for and try a default setup (can I ask knap for something different?). Then you just came here telling us you're happy with the game because, essentially, you benefit from set pieces rather than suffer from them and because you won the treble with Ajax and making yourself even greater showing us your undefeated streak.

Well... ok. Well done. But honestly if you tried to convince us about the goodness of this edition, it had the opposite effect on me. The ME sometimes shows beautiful things whatever the setup, if it respects some logic. Unfortunately the most of times, it shows less beautiful things to see and to digest and this has literally nothing to do with how much you achieve.

 

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27 minutes ago, Federico said:

So you're basically saying to forget all that FM became great and famous for and try a default setup (can I ask knap for something different?). Then you just came here telling us you're happy with the game because, essentially, you benefit from set pieces rather than suffer from them and because you won the treble with Ajax and making yourself even greater showing us your undefeated streak.

Well... ok. Well done. But honestly if you tried to convince us about the goodness of this edition, it had the opposite effect on me. The ME sometimes shows beautiful things whatever the setup, if it respects some logic. Unfortunately the most of times, it shows less beautiful things to see and to digest and this has literally nothing to do with how much you achieve.

 

This is the problem, some posters are putting up with the product on offer as they're getting positive results. I'm a football fan and I want to see something that represents football. My players when through on goal kind of scoop the ball to the keepers' hands! It's incredible. I've not seen anybody lace it. My IF's rarely score when cutting inside, they do score plenty of headers though, oddly enough. This leads me to believe that the reason there are less complaints it because a lot of players, I know of some who are friends, don't really understand the bigger picture and throw a tactic together and play the game as a top, top team. If you do this, you'll see very few issues, I believe. 

 

I'd rather lose and learn from it tactically than win and not really know why or how, or at least not feel like I fluked it. I'm quite successful at the game but games I do lose are usually through set-pieces or a ridiculous error and there's not a lot to learn from those, to be honest. 

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1 hour ago, dolph11 said:

This is the problem, some posters are putting up with the product on offer as they're getting positive results. I'm a football fan and I want to see something that represents football. 

i was not happy with the initial release of this year's game as it has too many problems and a lot of very questionable things. even though i was testing with Man city and was getting good results with it i stopped the save after second season bcz i was not enjoying it. the updated ME is clearly better now though and thus im enjoying it. 

1 hour ago, dolph11 said:

My players when through on goal kind of scoop the ball to the keepers' hands! It's incredible. I've not seen anybody lace it. My IF's rarely score when cutting inside, they do score plenty of headers though, oddly enough.

do my players miss one on one? yes they do but it is at a reasonable rate. how are the one on ones that u missed? is it a 60 yard pass into a one on one? is it a player running at high speed into one on one? not all one on ones are equal in terms of scoring chances. is there a rule that inside forwards cannot score plenty of headers? sorry im not aware of it. if u want inside forwards scoring from cutting inside u need to consider are there enough space for them to score like this? just bcz they are inside forwards doesn't mean they suddenly will score from cutting inside automatically.

 

1 hour ago, dolph11 said:

This leads me to believe that the reason there are less complaints it because a lot of players, I know of some who are friends, don't really understand the bigger picture and throw a tactic together and play the game as a top, top team. If you do this, you'll see very few issues, I believe. 

i started with a journeyman save so hardly any top teams there and played like 5 different tactics from counter attack to tiki taka from 3 at the back to classic 442 all played according to plan. all these tactics i have designed carefully to fit my team and im seeing very few issues since the update.

 

1 hour ago, dolph11 said:

I'd rather lose and learn from it tactically than win and not really know why or how, or at least not feel like I fluked it. I'm quite successful at the game but games I do lose are usually through set-pieces or a ridiculous error and there's not a lot to learn from those, to be honest. 

are u implying that there is NO WAY u could lose from a set piece or an error from your players? just to make sure i didnt misunderstood you.

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17 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

i was not happy with the initial release of this year's game as it has too many problems and a lot of very questionable things. even though i was testing with Man city and was getting good results with it i stopped the save after second season bcz i was not enjoying it. the updated ME is clearly better now though and thus im enjoying it. 

do my players miss one on one? yes they do but it is at a reasonable rate. how are the one on ones that u missed? is it a 60 yard pass into a one on one? is it a player running at high speed into one on one? not all one on ones are equal in terms of scoring chances. is there a rule that inside forwards cannot score plenty of headers? sorry im not aware of it. if u want inside forwards scoring from cutting inside u need to consider are there enough space for them to score like this? just bcz they are inside forwards doesn't mean they suddenly will score from cutting inside automatically.

 

i started with a journeyman save so hardly any top teams there and played like 5 different tactics from counter attack to tiki taka from 3 at the back to classic 442 all played according to plan. all these tactics i have designed carefully to fit my team and im seeing very few issues since the update.

 

are u implying that there is NO WAY u could lose from a set piece or an error from your players? just to make sure i didnt misunderstood you.

Very good opportunities, my friend, are constantly fluffed. You know, the ones that you can't believe they've missed. This happens in real life, of course, but not to the extent shown in this ME. Shots and opportunities where you really would expect them to score. 

I did not imply that I shouldn't lose from a set-piece, I said that the amount of goals I conceded from set-pieces are disproportionate and for some strange reason they like to happen after I've dominated games and my forwards have decided to kick the ball everywhere except the net even though they should really be putting those opportunities to bed. 

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34 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

Very good opportunities, my friend, are constantly fluffed. You know, the ones that you can't believe they've missed. This happens in real life, of course, but not to the extent shown in this ME. Shots and opportunities where you really would expect them to score. 

I did not imply that I shouldn't lose from a set-piece, I said that the amount of goals I conceded from set-pieces are disproportionate and for some strange reason they like to happen after I've dominated games and my forwards have decided to kick the ball everywhere except the net even though they should really be putting those opportunities to bed. 

dominating shots doesnt mean that u are dominating scoring chances. there is a recent example in this thread where someone posted a screenshot showing he has like 38 shots and only scored 2 of those. he also has like 5 clear cut chances. however when i look closely at his pass completion numbers i realized that he generated one shot with less than 10 passes. so how will he generate any decent scoring chances even he has 38 shots? 

how many goals has u conceded so far? from a total of your conceded goals how much are them from set pieces? how many set pieces are u giving the opposition each game? if u give ur opponents like 20 free kicks and corners each game, they are bound to score some. how many shots on target and shots your players are having? if they are constantly fluffing shots, it will show in their stats.

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37 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

dominating shots doesnt mean that u are dominating scoring chances. there is a recent example in this thread where someone posted a screenshot showing he has like 38 shots and only scored 2 of those. he also has like 5 clear cut chances. however when i look closely at his pass completion numbers i realized that he generated one shot with less than 10 passes. so how will he generate any decent scoring chances even he has 38 shots? 

how many goals has u conceded so far? from a total of your conceded goals how much are them from set pieces? how many set pieces are u giving the opposition each game? if u give ur opponents like 20 free kicks and corners each game, they are bound to score some. how many shots on target and shots your players are having? if they are constantly fluffing shots, it will show in their stats.

To start with, set-pieces have been acknowledged by SI as a problem in the game, that's unquestionable.

 

Secondly, my players are having fantastic opportunities, what more do you want me to say? I'm about to start my season so will happily upload where my players are shooting from but that still won't show you the full picture. Stats for shots missed/taken etc. doesn't give a picture of the type of shots either. The eye test really is better than the game when it comes to this. Genuinely, you know when you watch a game and say 'how did he miss that!?', it happens to an individual player 3 or 4 times a season before he becomes ridiculed. In my team it's regular occurrence

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1 minute ago, dolph11 said:

To start with, set-pieces have been acknowledged by SI as a problem in the game, that's unquestionable.

 

Secondly, my players are having fantastic opportunities, what more do you want me to say? I'm about to start my season so will happily upload where my players are shooting from but that still won't show you the full picture. Stats for shots missed/taken etc. doesn't give a picture of the type of shots either. The eye test really is better than the game when it comes to this. Genuinely, you know when you watch a game and say 'how did he miss that!?', it happens to an individual player 3 or 4 times a season before he becomes ridiculed. In my team it's regular occurrence

indirect free kicks defensive positioning is a known bug which does not occur every time at least for me but set pieces are more than just indirect free kicks. the eye test is a better indicator for something fundamental like goalscoring? like i have said before if it is a regular occurence it will show itself in stats if is not a regular occurence then it will not show itself in stats as simple as that. top goalscorers in EPL regularly miss big chances do they stop being good players bcz of that? if u are judging by eye test then these top goalscorers in EPL is not a good player by your standard. however if u still insist judging everything by eye test u can continue to do that but stop complaining about things u cannot prove but can be proven by data and statistics.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Federico said:

Then you just came here telling us you're happy with the game because, essentially, you benefit from set pieces rather than suffer from them and because you won the treble with Ajax and making yourself even greater showing us your undefeated streak.

This might sound crazy, but my theory is that actual goal types don't matter as much as one would think. I also heard Rashidi, who knows the match engine in and out, mention multiple times that your good tactical decisions could result in things like set piece goals, which you might just write down to luck. And likewise with bad tactics or bad morale and pressure management, you might end up conceding from situations you see as unlucky, but those goals could actually be the end result of match engine calculations based on your management as a whole.

I completely agree with you, I too wish FM was a perfect simulation and we could recognize every single highlight immediately and take it for granted. But it's not, no matter how passionate we all are about this franchise, it's still just a game that has certain limitations. It's a game that strives to replicate real life stats as closely as possible, which means that it could take your management performance, award you certain amount of goals for the upcoming match and then distribute those goals as it sees fit (with those calculations changing with your in-match changes, obviously). It might still take your playing style into account, but also throw in set pieces, mistakes and everything else, to balance things out.

What proves this to an extent, is your Analysis screen. Take this for example:

OaUk47e.png

Now, although I'm having a lot of success with my counter-attacking 4-4-2, I too mostly see boring set piece or crossing highlights. However, if you look at the stats, we're actually scoring goals from all kinds of situations. Especially interesting are through balls through the middle, which match engine rarely shows, but are clearly there in great numbers. As stupid as this sounds, it doesn't actually matter what the highlights show you, if stats are saying something else. Everything in this game is based on numbers, so if you don't trust your stats, which ultimately end up in players' performance ratings and just about everything else, then what's the point?

I know it's counter-intuitive, but it's how I imagine the game works after spending more time on it in the last decade than I'd like to admit. You can't judge your striker fluffing chance after chance in isolation, like you could in real life. You could be doing something wrong tactically, maybe you're managing his pressure badly, or he got complacent (no, always slamming the passionate "I have faith in you" team talk isn't the way :D). Try changing things up, if you're not good tactically, post your tactic and ask for help in the Tactics Discussion forum. I assure you there's not many people on this forum who's tactics are actually perfect. Or maybe you're beating the expectations and doing incredibly well, even though majority of the highlights aren't showing you exactly the type of goals you'd like. In which case, good job, you're beating the game.

Edited by Zemahh

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12 hours ago, Old Joe Clarke said:

Put your crash helmet on mate, even though this is a feedback thread to an update no positive comments are welcome as I have found out, a big baby tried to shoot me down and failed just because I am doing well with the ME, maybe it was sleepy, who knows.

People post stats bemoaning that real world strikers are scoring more than the FM equivalents are, oooh spooky! so a simulation is not bang on, what? you want exact numbers now? Well I have a real player that is scoring more than he should do according to the general blah around here so where does that leave your statistics?

There seems to be a lot of effort into slagging of the ME and not enough trying to form a workable tactic. I have and I am really enjoying the game, you know, the same game that we all bought.

Try this...

Learn the game.

Stop moaning.

Take losses on the chin, it happens.

I do not get beaten with free kicks and I don't win with free kicks, set pieces really do not impact on my game at all, CCC's are not gimmies like in golf, they are good chances but not definite goals so missing them is going to happen, big deal.

Well that's me, waiting for the onslaught.

Take it easy folks...

There are more one on ones in FM than in real life because defenders can't mark properly in this game. Players routinely dribble the length of the pitch and dance around defenders without being slowed. It's a match engine issue that requires wasted chances in order to keep the scores somewhat sane. It rarely looks right because it isn't. If there were fewer wide open chances then people wouldn't be complaining.

This has nothing to do with how good you are at the game. No one really cares because it isn't relevant. Regardless of tactical decisions, players shouldn't see inept defenders and repeated wide open chances wasted because it looks ridiculous.

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1 hour ago, zyfon5 said:

indirect free kicks defensive positioning is a known bug which does not occur every time at least for me but set pieces are more than just indirect free kicks. the eye test is a better indicator for something fundamental like goalscoring? like i have said before if it is a regular occurence it will show itself in stats if is not a regular occurence then it will not show itself in stats as simple as that. top goalscorers in EPL regularly miss big chances do they stop being good players bcz of that? if u are judging by eye test then these top goalscorers in EPL is not a good player by your standard. however if u still insist judging everything by eye test u can continue to do that but stop complaining about things u cannot prove but can be proven by data and statistics.

For m to go into detail and show you the frequency at which it happens would take over all of my free time. Genuinely. 

The ME doesn't calculate CCC's all that well to start with and the stats don't show the situation of the shot. If I have time, I'll prove my point. The problem I can see is the stats not showing the chances in their full entirety.

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Posted (edited)

 

13 hours ago, Old Joe Clarke said:

Put your crash helmet on mate, even though this is a feedback thread to an update no positive comments are welcome as I have found out, a big baby tried to shoot me down and failed just because I am doing well with the ME, maybe it was sleepy, who knows.

People post stats bemoaning that real world strikers are scoring more than the FM equivalents are, oooh spooky! so a simulation is not bang on, what? you want exact numbers now? Well I have a real player that is scoring more than he should do according to the general blah around here so where does that leave your statistics?

There seems to be a lot of effort into slagging of the ME and not enough trying to form a workable tactic. I have and I am really enjoying the game, you know, the same game that we all bought.

Try this...

Learn the game.

Stop moaning.

Take losses on the chin, it happens.

I do not get beaten with free kicks and I don't win with free kicks, set pieces really do not impact on my game at all, CCC's are not gimmies like in golf, they are good chances but not definite goals so missing them is going to happen, big deal.

Well that's me, waiting for the onslaught.

Take it easy folks...

 

 

 

 

 

The condescending tone tells me enough about you. Feel better about yourself yet? Good. I'm happy that attempting to subtly demean others makes you happy. You do you. 

The whole premise of many people having issues with this game has nothing to do with winning or losing. It's wanting to see good football. 

I don't have any problem winning, but I can't play FM20 in an enjoyable sense anymore because it's terribly dull and uninteresting to watch. Good football. It's not hard to understand. 

Aside from that, there's a complete dismissal by the system to actually adhere to tactics, and players seem to tend to do their own thing anyways. Hence, the ME seems to do its own thing. Defending is still iffy, as they don't seem to intercept and positioning still seems off. 

Possessional football seems confusing and watching a League 2 side play out the back against a team like Liverpool is just baffling. 

Aside from that, it seems player attributes matter little as the amount of threaded accurate passes in difficult spaces or over long distances don't equate to the players in question. 

I've yet to mention 1v1s,which ARE a problem. Although it's been mentioned that defence has been improved, I'm not seeing it. The 1v1 nerf seems like the ME's way of countering that. 

This game seems to have become more about an obsession with statistics that drive the game, rather than just trying to create good, attractive football. Or park the bus, what you prefer. 

I still love FM15, for the very reason that, although it was pitifully easy, I could see the system I wanted to play being effective. 

FM20 is incredibly difficult for me to get through, but I'm doing it because I enjoy playing with my football club, more than I'm actually enjoying the game. Even then, I have to put this down every week or so, because I just don't see any positive in playing it.

 

This isn't Fortnite. Screaming 'Git Gud like a 5 year old isn't the only outcome

 

Edited by MatthewS17

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1 hour ago, dolph11 said:

For m to go into detail and show you the frequency at which it happens would take over all of my free time. Genuinely. 

The ME doesn't calculate CCC's all that well to start with and the stats don't show the situation of the shot. If I have time, I'll prove my point. The problem I can see is the stats not showing the chances in their full entirety.

u dont have to calculate anything. go to the players screen for stats. (do u know this screen exist?) there u will find stats for shots on target per 90 and total shots ur player has taken. if ur player are indeed fluffing so many chances u will see a high amount of shots and very little goals being scored. the game accurately records those. post a screenshot here to prove urself. if u are indeed shooting enough u will eventually score. doesnt matter how the shots are. since u are claiming ur striker are shooting every shot into the gk u will see an unusual high amount of shots on target.

1 hour ago, Overmars said:

There are more one on ones in FM than in real life because defenders can't mark properly in this game.

tell me how i got my consecutive 13th clean sheet then. if u set ur defenders to fail, they will fail.

1 hour ago, Overmars said:

It rarely looks right because it isn't. If there were fewer wide open chances then people wouldn't be complaining.

This has nothing to do with how good you are at the game. No one really cares because it isn't relevant. Regardless of tactical decisions, players shouldn't see inept defenders and repeated wide open chances wasted because it looks ridiculous.

maybe im lucky when i score 4 goals from 5 shots on target? i wonder why my players dont fluff these chances:idiot:

59 minutes ago, MatthewS17 said:

Aside from that, there's a complete dismissal by the system to actually adhere to tactics, and players seem to tend to do their own thing anyways. Hence, the ME seems to do its own thing. Defending is still iffy, as they don't seem to intercept and positioning still seems off. 

Aside from that, it seems player attributes matter little as the amount of threaded accurate passes in difficult spaces or over long distances don't equate to the players in question. 

 

 

i guess im the lucky one here then. ive played very different play styles and the ME is working fine for me. accurate passes and difficult spaces dont work well together dont they? if opponents are defending tightly where should players pass the ball? for threaded accurate passes i could very possibly dig out couple of examples for u very easily if u want to see it.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

u dont have to calculate anything. go to the players screen for stats. (do u know this screen exist?) there u will find stats for shots on target per 90 and total shots ur player has taken. if ur player are indeed fluffing so many chances u will see a high amount of shots and very little goals being scored. the game accurately records those. post a screenshot here to prove urself. if u are indeed shooting enough u will eventually score. doesnt matter how the shots are. since u are claiming ur striker are shooting every shot into the gk u will see an unusual high amount of shots on target.

It still doesn't tell the whole story, that's what I need you to understand. As you can see my Striker had a 56% shot accuracy last season. What does that tell anybody about the quality of those chances? Nothing. How can we see how many were CCC's or 1-on-1's with the keeper or even where the ball falls to him in the box and he totally messes it up? This is where stats become useless.

 I cannot find the screen where it shows the total amount of shots he had all season but I can imagine it's well up above the 60 mark. Now, he scored 10 goals (I finished 8th in The Championship), that's 1 in 4 games and to add to the lack of open play goals 3 of them were penalties. If you can point me to the place I can show how many shots he took I'll happily oblige. 

Mano_ Career Stats.png

Edited by dolph11

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3 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

It still doesn't tell the whole story, that's what I need you to understand. As you can see my Striker had a 56% shot accuracy last season. What does that tell anybody about the quality of those chances?Nothing. I cannot find the screen where it shows the total amount of shots he had all season but I can imagine it's well up above the 60 mark. Now, he scored 10 goals (I finished 8th in The Championship), that's 1 in 4 games and to add to the lack of open play goals 4 of them were penalties. If you can point me to the place I can show how many shots he took I'll happily oblige. 

Mano_ Career Stats.png

not this screen. this dont tell me anything. u need to look for this one:

20200506204419_1.jpg

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2 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

tell me how i got my consecutive 13th clean sheet then. if u set ur defenders to fail, they will fail.

I also had 11 consecutive clean sheets on my current save, but it never should have happened. I was using a narrow 4-3-1-2 with two CWB(a), and my opponents missed every wide open chance against me for 1000 minutes. That didn't look like real football either. I would expect high scoring matches when using an aggressive attacking tactic like that, but instead I kept scraping 1-0 victories by converting the odd free kick, corner, or far post cross. It never felt right.

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8 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

not this screen. this dont tell me anything. u need to look for this one:

20200506204419_1.jpg

I don't have it for last season but will show you when I get some games under way. Your stats still tell me nothing about the opportunities your player is scoring or missing. Stats can be great for some things but not so great for others. 

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5 minutes ago, Overmars said:

I also had 11 consecutive clean sheets on my current save, but it never should have happened. I was using a narrow 4-3-1-2 with two CWB(a), and my opponents missed every wide open chance against me for 1000 minutes. That didn't look like real football either. I would expect high scoring matches when using an aggressive attacking tactic like that, but instead I kept scraping 1-0 victories by converting the odd free kick, corner, or far post cross. It never felt right.

4312 or any narrow formation is quite solid defensively than most people think. however when i see ppl playing with 2 CWB(a) that is going to be a red flag for me whatever tactic they are using. now i know why u struggle to create chances. no one in real life use their wingbacks that aggressive either. no wonder it dont look like real football. the opponents dun have many shots to begin with if u press them high enough so not surprised that u didnt concede there bcz u have a narrow formation to start with.

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1 minute ago, dolph11 said:

I don't have it for last season but will show you when I get some games under way. Your stats still tell me nothing about the opportunities your player is scoring or missing. Stats can be great for some things but not so great for others. 

stats are great for something like predicting goalscoring patterns but not great at other things. just by looking the player shot numbers i already knew he will be scoring at a rate of just more than 0.5 goals per 90. his shot numbers is at 3.72 shots per 90 and 1.67 shots on target. any player that can replicate his shot numbers will be scoring at a rate very similar to his. of course we still have to take into account the team playing style and his playing style and we will need to scale the number accordingly from 3 to 5 shots per 90 and 1.5 to 2.5 shots on target per 90. if a player that are putting shot numbers like him is scoring less than him then we can conclude the ME is indeed broken and players are scoring less than what they should.

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1 saat önce, Zemahh said:

This might sound crazy, but my theory is that actual goal types don't matter as much as one would think. I also heard Rashidi, who knows the match engine in and out, mention multiple times that your good tactical decisions could result in things like set piece goals, which you might just write down to luck. And likewise with bad tactics or bad morale and pressure management, you might end up conceding from situations you see as unlucky, but those goals could actually be the end result of match engine calculations based on your management as a whole.

 

I think this can be very exploitable for game developers. Very dangerous.

With FM'20 tactics have very very indirectly involved about how goals scored- I think-. It wasn't that much in previous versions. Ex. look at AI vs AI matches in FM'17 there are more variety in open goals through short passes and such.

 

'moaning' and 'passionate' -this one more pronounced by Devs- these words don't tell much. They are commonly used I see.

Imagine Napoleonic wargame native uniforms doesn't matter but combat good. People asking for better uniform and regiment names are 'passionate'. I don't think so. It is called Napoleonic after all..

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1 minute ago, baris28 said:

I think this can be very exploitable for game developers. Very dangerous.

With FM'20 tactics have very very indirectly involved about how goals scored- I think-. It wasn't that much in previous versions. Ex. look at AI vs AI matches in FM'17 there are more variety in open goals through short passes and such.

 

'moaning' and 'passionate' -this one more pronounced by Devs- these words don't tell much. They are commonly used I see.

Imagine Napoleonic wargame native uniforms doesn't matter but combat good. People asking for better uniform and regiment names are 'passionate'. I don't think so. It is called Napoleonic after all..

maybe the AI is more smarter now and make more adjustments now? hence harder to score? maybe its just me but i feel the FM20 match AI is much more responsive than previous AI. last time on fm18 the AI will only make very few adjustments throughout the game. now the FM20 AI is very responsive and is constantly making small tweaks and switching formations. i have even seen reports of AI switching 5 different formations in one match.

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1 hour ago, Overmars said:

There are more one on ones in FM than in real life because defenders can't mark properly in this game. Players routinely dribble the length of the pitch and dance around defenders without being slowed. It's a match engine issue that requires wasted chances in order to keep the scores somewhat sane. It rarely looks right because it isn't. If there were fewer wide open chances then people wouldn't be complaining.

This has nothing to do with how good you are at the game. No one really cares because it isn't relevant. Regardless of tactical decisions, players shouldn't see inept defenders and repeated wide open chances wasted because it looks ridiculous.

Agreed.

We all love a good sliding tackle but they are few and far between in both FM19 and FM20.
I have no idea what has happened to the defending in recent versions, or indeed how to fix it, but I'm sick to death of seeing quality defenders just standing there watching as a midfielder runs the length of the pitch, pretty much in a straight line I might add, and all my defender can do is watch him go by before finally deciding to react when it's far too late.
This naturally then presents the other major issue, the inability for players to score one-on-one. Why does it seem so difficult for players to hit the back of the net when clean through on goal. yet give them a really tight angle out wide or a chance to have a pop from 30 yards and they will score a higher percentage of these attempts.

We all love to win games but the majority also want to see realistic football, not having ~50% of goals scored from set pieces or thunderbolt strikes from outside the box.

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7 hours ago, Federico said:

So you're basically saying to forget all that FM became great and famous for and try a default setup (can I ask knap for something different?). Then you just came here telling us you're happy with the game because, essentially, you benefit from set pieces rather than suffer from them and because you won the treble with Ajax and making yourself even greater showing us your undefeated streak.

Well... ok. Well done. But honestly if you tried to convince us about the goodness of this edition, it had the opposite effect on me. The ME sometimes shows beautiful things whatever the setup, if it respects some logic. Unfortunately the most of times, it shows less beautiful things to see and to digest and this has literally nothing to do with how much you achieve.

 

Oh no not at all. And yeah im happy with how im doing now, as i had a lot of frustrations with the game so may I? And secondly i have noted enough criticism here on the game and i agree with many of those here. The game, or lets say the ME has to improve a lot. As i said it has a lot of issues. But at the end, im looking for solutions to just enjoy the game a bit. Those who stop playing it, fine its their choise. But i want some enjoyment and with my post i tried to show how some perhaps could have it. Its just a way i tried to show and yeah i was happy with this for sure, as it showed it can work. FM players are in different ways, some uses those exploit tactics fine, some need to fix a working one themselfs and a other way is just use the preset tactics. So is this game great no, but those who are looking for a solution and who doint find it important to create a working tactic themselfs or who are lost in tactics anyway, can try the preset tactics and from there on they can tweak things here and there untill they find a effective tactic and where they can have some enjoyment. And at the end so you are saying that this Fm edition is lost or? Because that would be not true as well. But at the end its how some play the game, i just watch the highlights in games and i like squadbuilding more so im oke with it then, and some could also. If your a player who are full focused on creating own tactics and watching games fully then it still can be a dissapointment but know there are different FM players, so my post could be a solution for some of us for sure, as it has been a solution for me.

But am i happy with the game in general no, the ME needs improvement, a lot. But we can talk about it all the time or we can find a way to enjoy the game anyway or some can choose to stop playing. And then we'll see what FM21 brings. And yeah for SI its going to be important to bring a balanced fine ME in FM21. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, f.zaarour said:

Oh no not at all. And yeah im happy with how im doing now, as i had a lot of frustrations with the game so may I? And secondly i have noted enough criticism here on the game and i agree with many of those here. The game, or lets say the ME has to improve a lot. As i said it has a lot of issues. But at the end, im looking for solutions to just enjoy the game a bit. Those who stop playing it, fine its their choise. But i want some enjoyment and with my post i tried to show how some perhaps could have it. Its just a way i tried to show and yeah i was happy with this for sure, as it showed it can work. FM players are in different ways, some uses those exploit tactics fine, some need to fix a working one themselfs and a other way is just use the preset tactics. So is this game great no, but those who are looking for a solution and who doint find it important to create a working tactic themselfs or who are lost in tactics anyway, can try the preset tactics and from there on they can tweak things here and there untill they find a effective tactic and where they can have some enjoyment. And at the end so you are saying that this Fm edition is lost or? Because that would be not true as well. But at the end its how some play the game, i just watch the highlights in games and i like squadbuilding more so im oke with it then, and some could also. If your a player who are full focused on creating own tactics and watching games fully then it still can be a dissapointment but know there are different FM players, so my post could be a solution for some of us for sure, as it has been a solution for me.

But am i happy with the game in general no, the ME needs improvement, a lot. But we can talk about it all the time or we can find a way to enjoy the game anyway or some can choose to stop playing. And then we'll see what FM21 brings. And yeah for SI its going to be important to bring a balanced fine ME in FM21. 

Yeah I'm much like you when it comes to tactics, it isn't what I really enjoy most about the game, like you I enjoy squad building the most. I don't see the issue anymore with people using the presets, they are in the game for a reason to help people like us who aren't the best at tactics. People like @Rashidi and @llama3 recommend beginners to use the presets as they are a good starting point to tweak from. Congrats on your season with Ajax, especially winning the CL in the 2nd season. 

Edited by Gee_Simpson

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Just now, Gee_Simpson said:

Yeah I don't see the issue anymore woth people using the presets, they are in the game for a reason to help people who aren't the best at tactics. People like @Rashidi and @llama3 recommend beginners to use the presets as they are a good starting point to tweak from. Congrats on your season with Ajax, especially winning the CL in the 2nd season. 

Thanks. Yeah true. I know that it is more satisfying making a working own tactic. But i noticed, and especially after the tactics changed after FM 18 (i think) that it was hard for me to make a balanced working tactic. I tried, went on and on but only with frustrations at the end. Maybe i understand football but in the game it was difficult to have a good one, to implement your own vision. But the difficulty is that you first need to understand SI's interpretations of those tactics (the TI's etc and what it exactly does in game), and also i dont want to full focus on it all the time, as i like squadbuilding etc more. And more important with those preset tactics is that it has a clear basis of a style of play. From there i can watch and understand it better what all the TI's are doing in a game and how to create a balanced tactic. From there on, i could tweak things a bit where needed. It was hard for me to get all those details in balance before, like roles, duties, TI, formation etc.

It is for sure a solution for some of us. But i understand that some of those who watch full matches, only wants to make own tactics work, that they could get bored with the ME, as it has its issues. 

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@Andrew James

hi!

is it bug or feature that almost all newgen wbs are defensive duty at first?

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5 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

is it bug or feature that almost all newgen wbs are defensive duty at first?

Players cant be a certain duty. All that indicator is, is a very brief summary of player's attribute spread. It doesn't mean he can't play any other duty, or even role, which is why you shouldn't rely on it as something definitive. The game also shows almost every central midfielder as a CAR, because the role requires some common attributes for that position.

Besides that, WB-At is a very demanding role, which means not everyone should be able to play it naturally. It requires a complete player, pretty much.

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2 saat önce, zyfon5 said:

maybe the AI is more smarter now and make more adjustments now? hence harder to score? maybe its just me but i feel the FM20 match AI is much more responsive than previous AI. last time on fm18 the AI will only make very few adjustments throughout the game. now the FM20 AI is very responsive and is constantly making small tweaks and switching formations. i have even seen reports of AI switching 5 different formations in one match.

Hi zyfon5,

I definitely agree. In one game AI  did all sorts of attacks from central ,wing against me. Every 5 to 10 minutes AI attack -key highlights second half- but at the end I score from long range counter attack. They miss a few 1 vs 1.

 

I understand some people looking at this as director of football enjoy about squad building and finance.  Lets see what direction SI will go.

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Zemahh said:

Players cant be a certain duty. All that indicator is, is a very brief summary of player's attribute spread. It doesn't mean he can't play any other duty, or even role, which is why you shouldn't rely on it as something definitive. The game also shows almost every central midfielder as a CAR, because the role requires some common attributes for that position.

Besides that, WB-At is a very demanding role, which means not everyone should be able to play it naturally. It requires a complete player, pretty much.

Yup. Chances are that newgens who are born as defenders are very unlikely to have any decent attributes for going forward, dribbling, crossing, etc so they will be most suited to defensive duties.

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6 ore fa, f.zaarour ha scritto:

Oh no not at all. And yeah im happy with how im doing now, as i had a lot of frustrations with the game so may I? And secondly i have noted enough criticism here on the game and i agree with many of those here. The game, or lets say the ME has to improve a lot. As i said it has a lot of issues. But at the end, im looking for solutions to just enjoy the game a bit. Those who stop playing it, fine its their choise. But i want some enjoyment and with my post i tried to show how some perhaps could have it. Its just a way i tried to show and yeah i was happy with this for sure, as it showed it can work. FM players are in different ways, some uses those exploit tactics fine, some need to fix a working one themselfs and a other way is just use the preset tactics. So is this game great no, but those who are looking for a solution and who doint find it important to create a working tactic themselfs or who are lost in tactics anyway, can try the preset tactics and from there on they can tweak things here and there untill they find a effective tactic and where they can have some enjoyment. And at the end so you are saying that this Fm edition is lost or? Because that would be not true as well. But at the end its how some play the game, i just watch the highlights in games and i like squadbuilding more so im oke with it then, and some could also. If your a player who are full focused on creating own tactics and watching games fully then it still can be a dissapointment but know there are different FM players, so my post could be a solution for some of us for sure, as it has been a solution for me.

But am i happy with the game in general no, the ME needs improvement, a lot. But we can talk about it all the time or we can find a way to enjoy the game anyway or some can choose to stop playing. And then we'll see what FM21 brings. And yeah for SI its going to be important to bring a balanced fine ME in FM21. 

It's perfectly fine you're enjoying the game. But I think we're all missing the point here. It's definitely and stronged suggested for the newcomers, or for those who don't have a complete understanding of football tactics, of for those who just can't bother to set a tactic from scratch, to use default setups. Nothing bad with it. They're there for a reason after all! But the main complaints, for what I understood here, is what is reproduced by the ME, not if a tactic is winning or enjoyful or not. I myself am winning, sometimes struggling, sometimes enjoying some very rare nice moves, sometimes blaming at my screen. But the aspect we're discussing about is different. Nobody's asking for perfection. It would be crazy to ask real life football to be reproduced perfectly on our PC. Human brain beats AI 10-0, in my opinion. Logarithms cannot cope the creativity of a human brain.

You say your post can be a solution. Maybe. For some it can surely be. I don't know... I think if we'd all follow your suggestion, the tactic forum can shut its doors.

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42 minutes ago, Federico said:

It's perfectly fine you're enjoying the game. But I think we're all missing the point here. It's definitely and stronged suggested for the newcomers, or for those who don't have a complete understanding of football tactics, of for those who just can't bother to set a tactic from scratch, to use default setups. Nothing bad with it. They're there for a reason after all! But the main complaints, for what I understood here, is what is reproduced by the ME, not if a tactic is winning or enjoyful or not. I myself am winning, sometimes struggling, sometimes enjoying some very rare nice moves, sometimes blaming at my screen. But the aspect we're discussing about is different. Nobody's asking for perfection. It would be crazy to ask real life football to be reproduced perfectly on our PC. Human brain beats AI 10-0, in my opinion. Logarithms cannot cope the creativity of a human brain.

You say your post can be a solution. Maybe. For some it can surely be. I don't know... I think if we'd all follow your suggestion, the tactic forum can shut its doors.

Well i kinda agree on that point. That is why i also already said that the ME needs improvements for sure as it is not balanced in some ways. I still see those issues in even the extended highlights. Anyway my point was just for those who somewhere try to find a solution for the timebeing. Who wants to play the game, keep it simple and enjoy somehow without go into frustrations all the time. And yeah if its about the ME we can continue about it untill FM21 and see if it did improve but for now i just want to enjoy the game where it is possible. But i agree with you that this ME is not balanced at all. With playing with highlights you can lower the frustrations and just see the goals but for those who watch it fully it can be frustrated or who are into implement own tactics in this ME. Its going to be hard yeah and in that case we going to wait untill FM21 im afraid. And about your point reproducing into the ME, that is why i just went with those preset tactics, as it is made by SI who understand its ME the best i guess. And oh for sure it is not a final solution, no not at all but just a temporary one for now, for those who wants to get some enjoyment back in the way i described. But again i agree that the ME is going to need many improvements. 

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The last Match engine for FM19 was enjoyable imo why didn't SI just make slight improvements to it for FM 20 instead of trying too change too much and making it Actually worse than it was in FM 19 

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