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Football Manager 2020 January & February Transfer Updates Feedback Thread

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Noticed a heck of a lot more driver crashes of FM20 with this new update.

I'm kinda anal about my graphics driver updates and I check everytime I turn the laptop on.

But I've had 5 crashes so far since 20.4

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29 minutes ago, danstam said:


My gripe isn't so much with the people complaining about what they see on FM, because it's largely accurate. Rather, I disagree that FM isn't real football in its current state, because it seems to reflect real life football quite well, except for perhaps excessive chance creation and such on FM. I'm just not sure where people find frequent real-life examples of teams cutting through the centre of the pitch like butter when the opponents are parking the bus. This logically only happens when there is lots of space to play through, either on the counter or in an end-to-end game between two attack-minded/aggressive pressing teams.

I agree, and this is really what I was trying to point out in my post before. It really is a decent ME in representing football on the whole. 

I think the problem lies more in the lack of variation in play styles and tactics on the AI side. When 90% of teams play narrow and deep(if not attacking), or with the same formation, it gets boring and central play is hardly ever available. 

When most AI managers play 1 of 3 tactics, and generally have poor ability to adapt in match, it then becomes a repeat feeling of playing the same game over and over. Thus the many “it’s boring, I have no passion to play” comments. 

But using my Smarter AI mod, where formations are much more varied, Ai makes more use of 3 strikers, scout opponents better, and managers constantly adapt in match, it’s a great game I can’t wait to play. 

Don’t get me wrong, SI has let everyone down to varying extents, and the issues with the ME and other areas of the game are proven and disappointing. 

But some changes in variation can do a world of good to help some enjoy the game more. Scouting teams becomes important, so I can prepare for an odd formation, or feel the impending doom of 3 strikers when I’m the weak team. I have to pay attention during the match, to see that they’ve done their research too, and are marking my winger with the most assists, or that 35 mins in, they’ve switched from 3 defenders to 5 and pushed players back to defend us. Or that at 80mins, they’re losing and pushing for a goal, so put wingers, fullbacks, and added 3 strikers to attack. Or see they’ve kept on their best player, a fullback on a yellow card at 55% energy in OT. They’ve instead subbed on a striker, searching for a goal. I instruct my players to play down the side of their tired fullback to push for a mistake or red card. But they’re on to me, and move him to Defensive midfielder, and sub on a fresh fullback.  

I get games with set pieces, others with just crosses, others with pressing, others with sitting back, many games with central play, beautiful through balls, one-twos, spins and tricks, some with balls over the top, some playing through the middle, or overlapping fullbacks, or a packed defense, with a low tempo and direct play, tiki taka, all out attack, etc. it’s a different game every time and it’s a joy. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Lucas said:

It's a delicate balancing act and something we're always constantly working on. If you've taken the time to provide PKMs and examples then that helps most going forward, with things to prioritise etc that people are seeing most so we can address issues in future updates and versions of the game.

@Lucas, are there any specific stats that you would say are way off RL and we should keep an eye on?

Your top3 priorities for example to achieve better correlation in the future.

Edited by Touristas3

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, danstam said:

I personally think the more realistic the game gets, the better. But there is a real question as to whether this should be the goal. After all, most football matches irl can be described as boring.

What makes football a living thing and interesting even when game is defensive?

1)Its the attacking and defending as a team. When attacking teams player looks left defending team allready react and its never only one player moving to def or att. Its the whole formation what moves. More movement is needed. 

2) Not only perfect passes but allso semi-good passes are needed mutch more because those cause individuals test their attributes and game is not so predictable.

3) Game needs more little fouls and quick freekicks. Teams dont nearly allways kick long deep freekick.

4) Players form def line not other way around. They just dont stand in line like statues.

Edited by Pasonen

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1 hour ago, Deisler26 said:

Noticed a heck of a lot more driver crashes of FM20 with this new update.

I'm kinda anal about my graphics driver updates and I check everytime I turn the laptop on.

But I've had 5 crashes so far since 20.4

Hi @Deisler26 have you reported these in our tech issues forum? One of the team could take a look and advise if you are getting crash dumps.

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@Neil Brock Can you tell me which attribute governs the Defensive Width of AI managers? I checked their Attributes but can only see Width but not Attack width / Defensive width like we users have.

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Better newgens pictures should be necessary in the next edition because now 9/10 look the same and all have a beard at 16 years old. i hope there's a plan for better faces.

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4 hours ago, WilltheWolf92 said:

Better newgens pictures should be necessary in the next edition because now 9/10 look the same and all have a beard at 16 years old. i hope there's a plan for better faces.

I've had plenty who had both a beard and were grey at 16. I've seen younger looking 60 year olds. 

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vor 20 Minuten schrieb kiwityke1983:

I've had plenty who had both a beard and were grey at 16. I've seen younger looking 60 year olds. 

That's because there is no aging with newgens. If they are set as bearded or bald they are right from the start.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, WilltheWolf92 said:

Better newgens pictures should be necessary in the next edition because now 9/10 look the same and all have a beard at 16 years old. i hope there's a plan for better faces.

This kind of feedback can surely only hinder SI in progressing the game. It's just emotional hyperbole. Sorry to pick on you specifically Will, it's just one of many examples on this forum. 

Here are the first 10 16 year-old players I could find. I don't think 9/10 look the same, and they certainly don't all have a beard*. Then people will say, "Aw come on, I wasn't being literal!". Well, we should be literal, if our feedback is going to be of any use.

image.thumb.png.aa3b2b78f35e973a5bfc77273a8d8a95.png

*I do agree, however, that even 2 x 16 year-old players here having beards is slightly unsettling.

Edited by Bry

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Posted (edited)

Seeing that the other thread that imho had a very civilized and constructive talk about the ME was just closed by Lucas, should we keep the discussion here mixed with all the other stuff? anywhere else? or is it just that SI doesn't want more talk/feedback about the ME? I'd like to know if to continue or just give up.

Edited by Icy

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Just when I was getting fed up of the game & the match engine... it goes and pulls me back in!

(We won't go into how the goals were scored though :lol:)

Screenshot 2020-03-09 at 10.00.38.png

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Has anyone had any strange swings in locker room morale? I had excellent support from the team and excellent tactical understanding, yet after the World Cup in 2022, my locker room atmosphere dropped from “Excellent” to “Good” and stayed there. This is despite having gone on an unbeaten run, having won many matches by 4+ goals, and all of my squad seemed to be around “Exceptional/Perfect” morale. It doesn’t seem to be going up either. If it does, it drops back down, or it’s very gradual. It’s been like this for months. I did do a staff purge and brought in some higher quality staff members - would that be causing this? That seems rather bizarre. It isn’t necessarily hurting my team performance at all, but I would expect the atmosphere to be much better by now. I’m questioning whether it’s a bug and the atmosphere just isn’t being updated correctly. 

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Thanks for taking the time for a thoughtful post @duesouth :thup:

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2 hours ago, Icy said:

Seeing that the other thread that imho had a very civilized and constructive talk about the ME was just closed by Lucas, should we keep the discussion here mixed with all the other stuff? anywhere else? or is it just that SI doesn't want more talk/feedback about the ME? I'd like to know if to continue or just give up.

Lucas covered this when when closing the thread - it was essentially repeating what was already being discussed in here and what appears on the first page of this feedback thread. If you want to discuss feedback then feel free to do so here. You want to discuss tactics and how they work in the ME we'd suggest the Tactics and Training Discussion. If you have a bug, please use the bugs forum.

Just as a reminder of the rules set out for the feedback thread, please see below:

  • Please try to keep any feedback constructive. Help us to help you by giving details. 
  • Respect other opinions. We don't expect you to agree with everyone, but take the time to read and respect their position.
  • Let everyone have their say. What we've found recently is a handful of the same users dictating and rather dominating the discussion. Please allow everyone to have their say and don't allow this thread to become an echo chamber.
  • Take Tactical Discussion elsewhere. We've seen a lot of posts focus on the tactical side of the game and whilst this is interesting, it's much more appropriate discussion for our Tactics, Training and Strategies Discussion.

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36 минут назад, Neil Brock сказал:

If you want to discuss feedback then feel free to do so here

Oh yeah until you say 'enough' and block access for thread for 2 weeks at least :thup: feel free, absolutely

1077426974_Image1.png.9d9c6aa44d0b2cc75a484d6ce1ab18c9.png

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Deisler26 said:

Noticed a heck of a lot more driver crashes of FM20 with this new update.

I'm kinda anal about my graphics driver updates and I check everytime I turn the laptop on.

But I've had 5 crashes so far since 20.4

That's what i have been getting mate it is really bad for a game to crash so much

 

Edited by jckc221013jamie

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13 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Oh yeah until you say 'enough' and block access for thread for 2 weeks at least :thup: feel free, absolutely

1077426974_Image1.png.9d9c6aa44d0b2cc75a484d6ce1ab18c9.png

I've updated my original post to clarify that whilst we encourage people to post feedback, that we don't want certain users to dominate the discussion for their own interests. Thanks for pointing that out. 

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does any one know which attribute governs the defensive width for AI managers?

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14 минут назад, Neil Brock сказал:

I've updated my original post to clarify that whilst we encourage people to post feedback, that we don't want certain users to dominate the discussion for their own interests. Thanks for pointing that out. 

So dont close separate threads if people want to discuss in place where is no a problem for SI? This is forum, a place for discussion as I understand meaning of this word

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finally enjoying the match engine again.

However, attacking midfielders and strikers are still under powered.

 

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19 hours ago, rp1966 said:

This pretty much mirrors my feelings about scorelines.  The outcome of any game should be entirely an emergent phenomenon, but it often feels that there are artificial constraints in place to stop outcomes getting too far from RL averages rather than being true to what has happened on the pitch.  

The trouble is SI are trying to satisfy two conflicting audiences - those who focus on how the individual game plays, who want what they are seeing as good chances to be scored at a rate commensurate with the quality of those chances, and those who look at the overall stats and complain whenever it starts getting a few %age points away from points or goal tallies of the RL league they are comparing with.

Personally, I think the stats obsessives are going to end up killing the game.  The moment you press continue for the very first time in a game you enter an alternative football universe. You literally cannot play a season in FM that matches the teams in the real world because even if you set no transfers in the first window it still allows loans, and most AI teams will take advantage. That's before probability has its way with match results, injuries and manager sackings. 

The expectation should be for 'pretty close to IRL' in the first season, and increasing drift thereafter.

Ultimately it comes down to how realistically did each individual game play out and that is where we have a problem at the moment, because there is a disconnect between quality of chances and chances taken. Where that is coming from is where the forum goes round in circles of speculation. But statistical averages and comparisons with the real world will only allow you a 'ballpark' guide to whether you're getting things right. Averages and league level stats can hide a lot of anomalous behaviour in the ME for the individual games that make up those higher level stats.

 

Absolutely, i can go on a winning run of 7 or 8 games then for no reason I'll lose at home to the bottom club. A few dodgy results later and I'm on another winning run. You might say that's what happens in real life but it just feels scripted, especially when you've had 20 shots, and your opponent has scored from their only one.

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2 hours ago, duesouth said:

 

Good post but I don't agree with your solution. As someone who plays a lot of FM Touch and uses his own tactics, that would just completely devalue that version to be viewed as a game for "exploit" tactics.  The difference between FMT and the full game should only be on the off the pitch requirements.

Exploit tactics are going to happen regardless of the ME imo. There's always going to be someone who puts together 100+ instructions that the AI just won't be able to cope with that creates an exploit. SI should just focus on developing an ME that supports a variety of playing styles. If people want to exploit the game, that's on them.

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2 minutes ago, rafaelbenitez said:

Good post but I don't agree with your solution. As someone who plays a lot of FM Touch and uses his own tactics, that would just completely devalue that version to be viewed as a game for "exploit" tactics.  The difference between FMT and the full game should only be on the off the pitch requirements.

Exploit tactics are going to happen regardless of the ME imo. There's always going to be someone who puts together 100+ instructions that the AI just won't be able to cope with that creates an exploit. SI should just focus on developing an ME that supports a variety of playing styles. If people want to exploit the game, that's on them.

Cheers.  My idea came from the thread over the weekend about difficulty levels, so I thought maybe "modes".  But, yes, I see your point - and figure I would feel the same, and I should probably have thought of that!  A mode for each of FM and FM Touch starts to get a bit hard work to develop/maintain, which might end that idea!

It's so hard for SI to have one ME to keep all of us happy.  I guess for me it felt like the original pre-release beta if you had a high line and pressed, the AI countered you with long balls, which led to the 1 on 1's (and I was doing that too - I thought the ME was the best of FM20, although there were too many 1 on 1's).  That ME wasn't well received and the change then had a negative impact for me, which I don't think SI quite resolved.  Having gone back into FM19 last week, I tried the same tactic in both games with San Marino Calcio in Serie A (an underdog just promoted), and what I saw in extended highlights felt more logical in FM19 - certainly it felt like I could play that style in FM19, but I don't in FM20 as I seem to invite far more pressure and give up a lot more chances.

So, yes, a ME where all logically and well-thought out tactics can succeed - but also I think it would really help if the AI played you differently.  If you are near/at the top of the league = park the bus; if you are mid/lower table = counter-press you, either control possession or gegenpress is all I've seen in Serie A over my first two seasons with an underdog.  Perhaps AI managers who sticks to their identity more, and those identities are coded to be more varied (which they are irl).  As I said, I'm a Southampton fan, with a manager who likes to press.  Away to Liverpool recently, he didn't park the bus and still pressed (but with triggers, so it wasn't completely like under 11's "chase the ball" football) - in the end we lost 4-0, but I suspect in FM, the AI Saints manager parks the bus, even if its AI Ralph.

I'm not sure what percentage of players use exploit/downloaded tactics as opposed to creating their own.  I suspect it's a high number though.  Just checking Knap's FM19/20 download thread in the tactics forum, I can see it has over 1 million views (:eek:) and TFF's FM20 thread almost 270,000 - so OK a very high number then!!  So, SI absolutely has to keep that element of their customer base happy, which made me think of having different "modes".  FM19 was my first FM - I found it dead easy to create a tactic - but it's much harder to create a good tactic!  Because it's hard and you can fall into traps of having instructions which conflict, I think it does turn people off (I'm pig headed, so I read a bunch, watched stuff on YouTube and kept plugging away - well, still am!) and many don't do this and download them.  If they enjoy FM with a downloaded tactic - fair play to them - but that's a pretty big voice if they don't work, or give result to something like the 1 on 1's, for SI to deal with...

Quite how you code a ME, I have zero clue - but one that allows someone like me wanting to play a cautious/balanced 4-1-4-1, or maybe a 4-1-2-2-1 at times at home - standard d-line, lower loe and not counter-press - and the people who download tactics both to enjoy the ME - that would seem to make the task a lot more difficult.

Hopefully, SI can come up with a solution.  I certainly don't envy them the task of finding one!

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Posted (edited)

Still plenty of flaws in this ME and trying to play possession football may be pretty tough, I've weirdly had a lot of success getting my striker to score in this system, a lot of tap ins or getting slipped in behind. The number 10 remains fairly useless but performances and results are incredible so i'm almost scared to tinker with it. 

If anyone is in my position where they were really struggling to get into a save at all, I recommend reading that article that came out a few weeks ago which talked about striking roles and complimenting each other etc. I wanted a quick system that featured getting quick balls to a target man where the am's would feed off him, and this works.

Attached a few photos if anyone wants to see, It previously had the RB on WB- attack and the rcm was box to box in the league below but I was getting torn apart, this has a nice balance and getting a lot out of my two target men.

edit - should also point out the am in the picture is not my usual first choice.

 

crewe system.GIF

millar crewe.GIF

palmer crewe.GIF

parkhouse crewe.GIF

Edited by He can't believe he's missed it

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57 minutes ago, He can't believe he's missed it said:

Still plenty of flaws in this ME and trying to play possession football may be pretty tough, I've weirdly had a lot of success getting my striker to score in this system, a lot of tap ins or getting slipped in behind. The number 10 remains fairly useless but performances and results are incredible so i'm almost scared to tinker with it. 

If anyone is in my position where they were really struggling to get into a save at all, I recommend reading that article that came out a few weeks ago which talked about striking roles and complimenting each other etc. I wanted a quick system that featured getting quick balls to a target man where the am's would feed off him, and this works.

Attached a few photos if anyone wants to see, It previously had the RB on WB- attack and the rcm was box to box in the league below but I was getting torn apart, this has a nice balance and getting a lot out of my two target men.

edit - should also point out the am in the picture is not my usual first choice.

What article you mean?

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Just started a new game with Ajax, and I noticed that apart from their individual TV deal, they have no sponsorship deals. Is this normal?

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Posted (edited)

Has anyone tried managing their set pieces carefully and seeing if excessive amount of goals from them is still an issue? Personally, although I enjoy "minmaxing", I never bothered with set pieces too much, because I simply found them too tedious. And I still do, there should absolutely be a quicker way of seeing who is instructed with what at set pieces, without having to manually click through all the different routines and their subsections. Over the course of the season, it's easy to end up with a few changes in the starting eleven you originally created the routines for, so having some sort of a list where you could quickly notice issues such as your midget winger going back for corners or your 6'7" target man staying up, would be very useful.

However, after conceding multiple goals from indirect free-kicks at the start of the season, I bit the bullet and sorted them out. My players clearly aren't to be trusted with man marking, so I changed to zonal instead and switched them around a little, according to their attributes. I also set up nickname markers for players that are especially bad in the air, so that I'm reminded of them in case I end up subbing them on and can make quick changes. Since then, I haven't yet conceded a single goal from set pieces, but I'll wait until the end of the season before jumping to conclusions.

The default routines can be really poor; and with every club having a different squad and different attributes at different positions, it's impossible to create a single set of routines that would work as "plug'n'play" for everyone. Could it be that the match engine now punishes such tactical issues more harshly (intended or not) and because people tend to not bother with set pieces, which has even been said on this forum many times before (and understandably so), they're now having issues which they weren't having before?

Anyway, just a thought on set pieces. Long shots on the other hand, are a different story. I can't think of a way to reduce conceding them, without focusing on them too much and changing my overachieving tactic drastically, so I'll write my Vanarama South stars scoring absolute worldies on regular basis down as the match engine interpreting them differently than shown (which I can be fine with, as long as they're not completely random and an actual bug).

Apart from that, I'm enjoying FM 20 very much. If the match engine was a little more enjoyable to watch, I would give it a 10/10. The whole experience seems very smooth and straight forward, I find myself flying through the save, while still controlling everything. I love tiny little additions such as being able to incorporate playing time happiness or ability progress graph into the squad view, that I now wouldn't be able to live without. I feel the game definitely gets a lot more stick than it actually deserves, but ultimately the match engine has always been, and always will be, a be-all and end-all of this game.

Edited by Zemahh

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Guys, is this the last version of ME or we can wait for some ME updates? Someone knows? 

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@Nick_CB Please don’t post misinformation in the thread and mislead people asking honest questions. 
 

@spiritdonkey Yes, you can play with the latest match engine.  

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9 hours ago, duesouth said:

I honestly don't know if I'll continue playing FM20.  Having sunk a lot of hours into growing my team to the top flight in my save, I want to keep growing and see if I can qualify for Europe or even win something - but while I love growing the club, improving facilities, signing players, using the new tools to help me here - it's like taking a pin to a balloon when you play matches.  Immersion and enjoyment just vanish - frustration quickly rises to boiling point...

This is a perfect summary (within a very well put together post) that sums up my feeling to a tee

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On 08/03/2020 at 13:45, danstam said:

I agree partially, I think this is why gegenpressing tactics are so overpowered, because using this style I think you can create space the way Man Utd have using this style in the game (even though I wouldn't describe Man Utd as gegenpressing irl). There's definitely too many shots in the game. I think individual attributes in this game are definitely more important than ever before, because for example playing as Chelsea Abraham fits the advanced forward role really well in terms of attributes and he scores tonnes of goals and gets lots of chances in my game, but Batshuayi, who lacks key attributes in off-the-ball movement and such can barely get a sniff in the game. I just disagree that there is a complete lack of movement and creativity, but it is arguably too hard to achieve in the game. With a good advanced forward you can definitely get good striker movement though (I've also had unusually great success with target men, and they can score a lot with their feet and even get in behind). 

I personally think the more realistic the game gets, the better. But there is a real question as to whether this should be the goal. After all, most football matches irl can be described as boring.

 

First, in response to your post about the Man City game. One game isn't indicative of a trend or "an issue with the ME". If what happened in the Manchester Derby happens in one or two games in the ME (maybe even a few) then I would never complain about the striker thing or the central play/set pieces issue. However, I think the problem seems to lie in the fact that such situations tend to happen in almost every single game. Even in my first season in charge of Arsenal, pretty much every team in the land adopted the low block, narrow defense which is not tremendously realistic. I get teams adjusting to how my team plays, but it's never that drastic that fast. Surely, certain teams would find other ideas for how to play against me.

Secondly, the striker issue: I never had a problem with the striker success rate in terms of goals. My issue is with the way the strikers seem to move. Perhaps you're right and one can find good movement with an Advance Forward or another specific role. But doesn't that hugely contradict the point of a game that should allow different styles of play. Most of the other striker roles, especially the ones that require more dropping deep and more exploitation of space, seem to lack the movement and creativity. I've been trying to replicate a False 9 tactical set up but the best I get is when I play a lone Shadow Striker as opposed to playing a False 9. What makes this harder to bare, is the fact that I have successfully done this one previous versions of FM (particularly pre-2019). 

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I'd love to try the updates or ME but have now given up on FM20 and reverted to FM19 as I'm still suffering from an inexcusable stutter in 3D match play,despite owning a high end PC. However that's been covered and commented on many times in the bugs forum

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@Zemahhthat's exactly what I have done, and the results speak for themselves.

My Stoke side conceded just 1 corner in 46 league games last season, with that goal coming on the 44th match day. We conceded 2 from IFKs, and 0 from DFKs.

We also romped our way to about 13 corner goals, so in that sense I do think set pieces may still be an issue. You can 100% stop conceding set pieces, I've seen it myself. The AI, however, can't.

Tbf I've also found I've got my AMC doing incredibly well. 8 games into the Premier League season where we're predicted to finish 17th and he's got a 7.59 average rating, and we sit in 3rd. 

This ME is wonky, and the attacking play does lack, but you can absolutely work your way around that. 

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Posted (edited)

Great post by duesouth higher up; pretty much nails it.

UI is great, lots of positives there, but come game time I'm just deflated now. As I've noted before, I thought the beta that came at around Christmas time balanced the ME out well, either side of that it's been a mix of frustration at clear cut chances bein squandered over and over, to what we have now - which feels...dull, to be honest. Feel too reliant on set pieces or worldies; going a goal down feels like death most of the time.

It's just not fun anymore; I play to take my mind off things, not to be left feeling frustrated, deflated, or bored.

 

Edited by duff33

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My left back with 8 crossing has 15 assists in 14 games... shows the lack of central play this year. SI did an absolute terrible job with the ME in my opinion. Can’t believe you are telling me that there won’t be another update. 

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Posted (edited)

I tried to enjoy FM 20. I played 120 hours and I can't stand this ME. Simulator of set pieces 2020. 

Last game I played against Bournemoth I lost 4 goals from set pieces and 3 from corners - hattrick by Ake. Lost 4:1. Cool game.

Im adding pkm if someone is interested in watching this "enjoyable" ME. 

Im playing this game since FM 12 and I was never disapointed like this year. Not gonna preorder next FM for sure like I always did. 

PS. Everything except ME is great.

Bournemouth - Southampton.pkm

Edited by Bobek

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I am very meticulous when it comes down to FM. I like doing every single thing possible, which includes organizing set pieces.

Being a small club led me to being more defensive. And I can say that my team defends really well from normal play. So well that from the last 20 goals that I conceded, 20 came from set pieces

Corners are nerve wracking. And even tought I tried to stop them, the set pieces goals kept coming. It's like the game can't make my opponents score from normal (central) play and, being a small club, the game needs me to conced a few times. And the way is trough set pieces

I just uninstalled the game. I stopped playing in january, waiting for the last update. And now I am out. I tried, but it's not for me. FM 19 and 20 will make me wait for the march update of FM21, after a close read of this forum, of course

 

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Posted (edited)

On opponent instructions is the closing down option replaced by pressing ? What do i select if i want to close down an opposite player ? Thanks!

Edited by bitzu_rock

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5 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I should be trying to work out tactical flaws not ME flaws.

Well, set pieces are an important part of your tactic. While I agree they can be very tedious, you simply can't expect not to have issues if you leave everything on default, because sorting them out isn't "particularly fun". It makes no sense to demand your short winger to win all the headers or your defenders with poor concentration and marking to not make mistakes during their man marking tasks. In a game that prides itself as the most realistic football simulator, you will, and should be punished for such mistakes.

That's not to say this year's match engine doesn't have issues, but it feels like it became popular to trash it left and right, while at the same time you refuse to put in any effort. Everything is a "match engine flaw" all of a sudden. I don't want to be rude, but with the amount of poor tactics and dumb questions posted on this forum, I somehow struggle to believe everyone is suddenly a master tactician, who could only struggle if the match engine was "broken".

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2 hours ago, Zemahh said:

Well, set pieces are an important part of your tactic. While I agree they can be very tedious, you simply can't expect not to have issues if you leave everything on default, because sorting them out isn't "particularly fun". It makes no sense to demand your short winger to win all the headers or your defenders with poor concentration and marking to not make mistakes during their man marking tasks. In a game that prides itself as the most realistic football simulator, you will, and should be punished for such mistakes.

That's not to say this year's match engine doesn't have issues, but it feels like it became popular to trash it left and right, while at the same time you refuse to put in any effort. Everything is a "match engine flaw" all of a sudden. I don't want to be rude, but with the amount of poor tactics and dumb questions posted on this forum, I somehow struggle to believe everyone is suddenly a master tactician, who could only struggle if the match engine was "broken".

I never said I wouldn't sort them out! 

I do. 

But guess what the AI can't.

So it's essentially exploiting the awful ME to give me a massive advantage over AI teams. 

You've yet again in trying to defend it pointed out exactly why it's so so broken. 

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On 09/03/2020 at 11:08, duesouth said:

Now, with FM Touch and full fat FM there are already two modes essentially.  Perhaps it is guiding those who want to use exploit tactics to FM Touch (being able to use custom databases with this product would become an essential part of this solution) and those who use their own maybe logical/sensible tactics to full fat FM.

No thanks. I'd like Touch to become fun again, just as much as others would like full fat to return to former glories.

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I must admit from actually enjoying this  game  and playing  with all the different formations , i would not normally try ;) I had to put  the game down  and uninstalled . like other people have  said don't add features that  takes time away (or even conflicts) in from working on the ME ! been a massive fan for this franchise for years,  This editon and with all the  hard working  people  taking time to reports the bugs etc IN EVERY PATCH   is Big let down in my books..   very very disapointed in Si Games  ..  truly thought you were better then this  please dont turn into another  one of them cash cow  companys !

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12 hours ago, AEJ said:

I am very meticulous when it comes down to FM. I like doing every single thing possible, which includes organizing set pieces.

Being a small club led me to being more defensive. And I can say that my team defends really well from normal play. So well that from the last 20 goals that I conceded, 20 came from set pieces

Corners are nerve wracking. And even tought I tried to stop them, the set pieces goals kept coming. It's like the game can't make my opponents score from normal (central) play and, being a small club, the game needs me to conced a few times. And the way is trough set pieces

I just uninstalled the game. I stopped playing in january, waiting for the last update. And now I am out. I tried, but it's not for me. FM 19 and 20 will make me wait for the march update of FM21, after a close read of this forum, of course

 

20 out of 20 goals? That is just insane.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Zemahh said:

Well, set pieces are an important part of your tactic. While I agree they can be very tedious, you simply can't expect not to have issues if you leave everything on default, because sorting them out isn't "particularly fun".

Whilst I don't disagree with the jist of what you're saying, you've also made the counter point in the same post - it's tedious trying to figure out set pieces if you're a more casual player; especially as, following the Winter Update, it seems borderline essential that you do, lest you be doomed to failure.

It's not an area I've really played around with much before, the ratio of goals scored/conceded was 'fine' (for/to me) using the defaults previously; now? Yeesh. In the last game played, two of Torino's three goals against me were from set pieces - lost 3-1. If it was a one off (or infrequent occurrence), fine, it happens in football eh. But it doesn't feel proportional, nor does it feel balanced as other chances that I'd have expected to go in, even within previous versions of FM20(!), go begging now.

I'll freely admit to being somewhat OCD about having the latest/correct squads, but more and more I am wishing for a way to uninstall the Winter Update and roll back to the public beta.

I tried again with my Genoa save today, but the same feelings just keep coming up as I watch nice build up play fizzle out in the final third over and over, with underperforming/nerfed forwards.

Edited by duff33
Additional comment.

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i reverted back to football manager  2014  with the  brighter  ball,  bigger ball and  pitch mods  now thats a polished  game  ! we all have personal tastes   favourite versions !!    im hoping  this will be a shake  up  for  si games  surley to god  Miles is  not happy with this version even watford  play better football then this me  ;)

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