Football Manager 2020 January & February Transfer Updates Feedback Thread

[Teep]

19 hours ago, limey150781 said:

SI should be in a position to say whether or not they plan another ME patch. They're either working on something that they're planning on getting out or they're done and focus is now on 21. I completely get not committing to time frames for expected patches, this isnt like that though. They'll know whether or not there is a plan for another patch and lots of people are holding off on their career saves on depending on this information, positive or not.

 

That! I don't care when the last update drops, I only want to know when the ME is final and we aren't getting any new updates.

[campos08]

23 minutes ago, Teep said:

 

That! I don't care when the last update drops, I only want to know when the ME is final and we aren't getting any new updates.

I asked the question and thread got closed immediately. Only asked if any more patches are coming. Not when.  Didn’t know it’s a big secret. 5 months after release game is still not ready. But wait till October when they will ask to buy new game. Not happening this year. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by campos08

[Fieldsy]

Of course, the silence could mean that at some point soon an update ME patch could come out........

[Neil Brock]

We understand that these forums are an extremely passionate part of the FM community but do remember they are just one part of that community. We appreciate that people take the time to raise their opinions here and often it can be incredibly useful and insightful.

Since the release of 20.4 we've seen some calls to fix the match engine and that it's ‘broken’. While we respect everyone's opinions, this is something we simply don't agree with. We’re already our own harshest critics and recognise aspects (including those raised within the community) we want to improve long term, but we still believe it's the most realistic simulation of football there is.

That's not to say the match engine can't be made even better and your posts have a huge impact on the direction we’re heading in. We're constantly working on improving and have a roadmap that carries on for many years on how we can go about doing this. The fact the scale of our ambitions for the future requires such a considerable timescale indicates the difficulty and scope of the work ahead.

To change and evolve such detailed and comprehensive code takes time across multiple disciplines. Planning, reviewing, implementing and testing. As part of this we've always found our community extremely important in the process of constant improvement. Alongside our dedicated match team, which includes qualified coaches and ex-professional footballers, you help provide the knowledge and feedback that is constantly reviewed by the development team and helps shape everything you see in game.

We understand from some of the feedback seen in this thread that the news of no further match engine changes for FM20 will disappoint some here. But looking at sentiment overall and the number of people playing the game, the majority of our players are playing and enjoying FM more than ever before.

[Fieldsy]

16 minutes ago, Fieldsy said:

Of course, the silence could mean that at some point soon an update ME patch could come out........

Guess I got that one wrong.....

[MatthewS17]

And that, folks, is why I decided not to buy another FM again. 

[FMLegend1983]

17 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

We understand that these forums are an extremely passionate part of the FM community but do remember they are just one part of that community. We appreciate that people take the time to raise their opinions here and often it can be incredibly useful and insightful.

Since the release of 20.4 we've seen some calls to fix the match engine and that it's ‘broken’. While we respect everyone's opinions, this is something we simply don't agree with. We’re already our own harshest critics and recognise aspects (including those raised within the community) we want to improve long term, but we still believe it's the most realistic simulation of football there is.

That's not to say the match engine can't be made even better and your posts have a huge impact on the direction we’re heading in. We're constantly working on improving and have a roadmap that carries on for many years on how we can go about doing this. The fact the scale of our ambitions for the future requires such a considerable timescale indicates the difficulty and scope of the work ahead.

To change and evolve such detailed and comprehensive code takes time across multiple disciplines. Planning, reviewing, implementing and testing. As part of this we've always found our community extremely important in the process of constant improvement. Alongside our dedicated match team, which includes qualified coaches and ex-professional footballers, you help provide the knowledge and feedback that is constantly reviewed by the development team and helps shape everything you see in game.

We understand from some of the feedback seen in this thread that the news of no further match engine changes for FM20 will disappoint some here. But looking at sentiment overall and the number of people playing the game, the majority of our players are playing and enjoying FM more than ever before.

£40 for a game that has badly underdelivered and now confirmed no more light at the end of the tunnel, sigh, time to move on and shelve this series for quite some time, my faith and trust is broken.

Edited March 6, 2020 by FMLegend1983

[duff33]

Is the striker thing any better if you have two men up front? I've been using formations with one centre forward, and have noticed the poor performance since the recent update, but wondered if it was the same with two up front (if anyone had tried it)?

[Nick_CB]

21 minutos atrás, Neil Brock disse:

 

Since the release of 20.4 we've seen some calls to fix the match engine and that it's ‘broken’. While we respect everyone's opinions, this is something we simply don't agree with. We’re already our own harshest critics and recognise aspects (including those raised within the community) we want to improve long term, but we still believe it's the most realistic simulation of football there is.

 

Excuse me, but a game summarized in set pieces cannot be considered the closest to reality. I made a topic showing a match where my team scored 5x on set pieces and someone from SI said that the problem was being solved but it didn't happen

[Fieldsy]

I respect the fact that Neil has actually come out and confirmed there will be no more updates - at least it gives some clarity.

I guess my biggest frustration is that issues such as central play, attacking movement in the final third have not been addressed even though it has been brought up since the BETA - I do understand that it may not be quick fix or that coding is an extremely difficult process - I have no skills whatsoever in this area so in no place to criticise. 

However, on a personal note - the fun of playing FM has been seriously curtailed by the last 2 iterations - the UI, gameplay has been exceptionally improved, however, as soon as you click 'play' on the ME, it lessens considerably.  Yep, I accept that there are people who will play this, enjoy it and say its the best yet - I guess it is based on expectations and how people want to play the game.

 

I do think that there is a (fairly) large group of customers who are now questioning their future purchasing of the series - I am too, however, in all honesty, the new features will be launched in August, I will get excited and hopeful and purchase the BETA - I just truly hope that for the next 6-7 months the concentration is on the ME - build it from scratch again, do whatever but please do not let it be like it is now or how it has been for the last 2 years. 

[Novem9]

Well if this game is so good and a lot of people enjoy this, let few unhappy customers use a refund of FM20?
Since FM20 release I read about 'people like FM20, just few members criticize this'. Okay, good for you. I have a Steam version of FM20 so refund me please in Steam Wallet for I can buy few games which I will really enjoy? It will be no disaster for you if this game is so good.

I bought this game before patch 20.2. In fact I use demo of different gameversion and you use another one in update without my agremeent and you denied me for personal rollback for version which I want. In this way I see a preposition for refund. I will refuse this game without any doubt. So you approve my request? 

[yandex]

It's the set pieces man.. The set pieces.

Why couldn't their effectiveness/occurrence just be toned down a little bit? Just a tad. It's my only real deal-breaking gripe. The game is so good, but seeing 3 identical set piece goals some games, plus countless identical chances from set pieces, ruins it.

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by yandex

[FMSD0]

Quote

We understand that these forums are an extremely passionate part of the FM community but do remember they are just one part of that community. We appreciate that people take the time to raise their opinions here and often it can be incredibly useful and insightful.

Yeah, this is just a part of the community. A part of the community that shares the same views on the game as pretty much every other part of the community found on other platforms - because the community is not limited to the satisfied users who spend hours battling all critical views and never question anything. 

What is the community? The community is, ultimately, the visible part of the community — and that feels ignored. It's simple. If the opinions of the community were really that "incredibly useful and insightful", the game would make great progress quickly and the users would be very happy. But that's not the case. The Metacritic and Steam user ratings suggest that the game gradually regressed - and has been doing so since 2013/2014. The trend of the last three years points to stagnation.

Quote

Since the release of 20.4 we've seen some calls to fix the match engine and that it's ‘broken’. While we respect everyone's opinions, this is something we simply don't agree with. We’re already our own harshest critics and recognise aspects (including those raised within the community) we want to improve long term, but we still believe it's the most realistic simulation of football there is.

Just because something is working doesn't automatically mean it's working as intended. You'll get this "it's broken" statement from frustrated users who feel like their input isn't valued at all. It's natural for them to get very vocal as a result. The ME is rather flawed and users simply can't enjoy it because of the reported things that no one seemed to take care of for this edition. And the last edition. And the one before that one. … Yes, FM is the most realistic simulation of football out there. It's bold, comprehensive and complex. Sometimes it feels larger than life. But it's the only football management simulation on the market. There's simply no competition anyway. There should be no excuse for stalling progress in the here and now.

Quote

That's not to say the match engine can't be made even better and your posts have a huge impact on the direction we’re heading in. We're constantly working on improving and have a roadmap that carries on for many years on how we can go about doing this. The fact the scale of our ambitions for the future requires such a considerable timescale indicates the difficulty and scope of the work ahead.

Exactly, it could be better, but it looks like, at the moment, that the opinions of users, the reported bugs, the passion and the ideas, do not matter at all. At least at the moment. A roadmap is a good thing. I think any company should have one. Maybe share it with the community? I can well imagine how difficult it is to handle a game of the scope of FM and that you are looking towards the future, but wouldn't it be wiser to focus on the presence, too? I cannot imagine how you will cope with the difficult tasks of the future if you postpone the difficult tasks of the present.

Quote

To change and evolve such detailed and comprehensive code takes time across multiple disciplines. Planning, reviewing, implementing and testing. As part of this we've always found our community extremely important in the process of constant improvement. Alongside our dedicated match team, which includes qualified coaches and ex-professional footballers, you help provide the knowledge and feedback that is constantly reviewed by the development team and helps shape everything you see in game.

I'm sure there were lots of areas where FM improved a lot. However, user critics indicate that the pace and quality of progress within the last six to seven years wasn't good enough. It would be a great thing if providing knowledge and feedback helped improving the game, We'll be looking forward to it.

Quote

We understand from some of the feedback seen in this thread that the news of no further match engine changes for FM20 will disappoint some here. But looking at sentiment overall and the number of people playing the game, the majority of our players are playing and enjoying FM more than ever before.

This is not a problem for me since I didn't have high hopes for this version anyway. One could say I'm used to disappointment in this regard. But I can imagine that others did have those hopes and are now much more disappointed than before. I would rather guess people are still playing this game because they don't have alternatives, but this doesn't automatically mean that they're enjoying the idle state of progress FM has made in recent years, especially this year's ME.

@Neil Brock

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by FMSD0

[davehanson]

1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

We understand that these forums are an extremely passionate part of the FM community but do remember they are just one part of that community. We appreciate that people take the time to raise their opinions here and often it can be incredibly useful and insightful.

Since the release of 20.4 we've seen some calls to fix the match engine and that it's ‘broken’. While we respect everyone's opinions, this is something we simply don't agree with. We’re already our own harshest critics and recognise aspects (including those raised within the community) we want to improve long term, but we still believe it's the most realistic simulation of football there is.

That's not to say the match engine can't be made even better and your posts have a huge impact on the direction we’re heading in. We're constantly working on improving and have a roadmap that carries on for many years on how we can go about doing this. The fact the scale of our ambitions for the future requires such a considerable timescale indicates the difficulty and scope of the work ahead.

To change and evolve such detailed and comprehensive code takes time across multiple disciplines. Planning, reviewing, implementing and testing. As part of this we've always found our community extremely important in the process of constant improvement. Alongside our dedicated match team, which includes qualified coaches and ex-professional footballers, you help provide the knowledge and feedback that is constantly reviewed by the development team and helps shape everything you see in game.

We understand from some of the feedback seen in this thread that the news of no further match engine changes for FM20 will disappoint some here. But looking at sentiment overall and the number of people playing the game, the majority of our players are playing and enjoying FM more than ever before.

Thanks for the information. At least it lets everyone know, whether they agree or not, what the plans for FM20 are.

Sadly I have to agree with the other forum members that this is really, really disappointing. To be honest Neil it is frankly insulting that SI keep trolling out the same lines with numbers playing the game etc etc. Just about every site that I am a member of has FM20 as not worth playing. The various issues raised here and elsewhere make this the worse FM that I can remember. But, hey, people are still playing. The fact they don't have another viable football management game to play is the only reason that some are still playing. I am not sure where you think the sentiment overall suggests that people are enjoying the game, I just don't see it.

But, as I said, it is good that you have told people exactly where they now stand, now everyone can make an informed decision as to whether to support this series or not I guess. For me it will take something monumental to come out of FM21 for me to buy, but I wish you all the best.

[danstam]

It’s previously been said that in order to allow as many people to play, specs have to be kept relatively low and thus we probably won’t be getting a significant update to the 3D in the future. But I do wonder whether having PES or FIFA style graphics would make issues with the match engine seem more obvious. It’s sometimes hard to tell whether the 3D is simply badly reflecting the underlying code with the sometimes silly movements we see, or whether the underlying code for a specific issue needs work.

[Kingstontom88]

1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

We understand from some of the feedback seen in this thread that the news of no further match engine changes for FM20 will disappoint some here. But looking at sentiment overall and the number of people playing the game, the majority of our players are playing and enjoying FM more than ever before.

I respect Neil's post, but this section worries me and leads me to believe this game may continue going down the right path but with the wrong footwear. The features developed are great, but the ME - and this thread is a big indicator - has been a huge let down this year despite numerous tweaks and it's a massive part of the game. I hope it gets a lot of attention in advance of FM21 - but if playing figures are high, the question is whether SI interpret anything is actually 'wrong' with it, and will instead focus on the nice add-ons outside of the ME to keep justifying the release of a new game every year.

We will see, I guess.

[dannyfc]

1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

We understand from some of the feedback seen in this thread that the news of no further match engine changes for FM20 will disappoint some here. But looking at sentiment overall and the number of people playing the game, the majority of our players are playing and enjoying FM more than ever before.

Thanks for clarifying Neil. 

While it may be a minority of the userbase that are unsatisfied, would Sigames be in a position to directly address the common concerns that have been raised? 

It would be good to understand which criticisms are work in process, and which you genuinely disagree with.

For instance in terms of central play, are SI generally content with how this is reflected in game, or is it simply something that will take longer than a single development cycle to solve? 

 

[KUBI]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb dannyfc:

For instance in terms of central play, are SI generally content with how this is reflected in game, or is it simply something that will take longer than a single development cycle to solve? 

 

I think they are well aware of it:

 

[Fieldsy]

1 minute ago, KUBI said:

I think they are well aware of it:

 

I think this is one of my biggest frustrations - "we are aware of it" but then no indication as to whether this is being looked at for FM20 or later versions - TBH, if they came back and said "this issue is too complex to fix for the current patch and we are now looking to improve for FM21", it may be frustrating but at least people's expectations are managed and we know where we stand......

[Harrison Bored]

32 minutes ago, gonefading said:

Yeah, this is just a part of the community. A part of the community that shares the same views on the game as pretty much every other part of the community found on other platforms - because the community is not limited to the satisfied users who spend hours battling all critical views and never question anything. 

What is the community? The community is, ultimately, the visible part of the community — and that feels ignored. It's simple. If the opinions of the community were really that "incredibly useful and insightful", the game would make great progress quickly and the users would be very happy. But that's not the case. The Metacritic and Steam ratings suggest that the game gradually regressed - and has been doing so since 2013/2014. The trend of the last three years points to stagnation.

Just because something is working doesn't automatically mean it's working as intended. You'll get this "it's broken" statement from frustrated users who feel like their input isn't valued at all. It's natural for them to get very vocal as a result. The ME is rather flawed and users simply can't enjoy it because of the reported things that no one seemed to take care of for this edition. And the last edition. And the one before that one. … Yes, FM is the most realistic simulation of football out there. It's bold, comprehensive and complex. Sometimes it feels larger than life. But it's the only football management simulation on the market. There's simply no competition anyway. There should be no excuse for stalling progress in the here and now.

Exactly, it could be better, but it looks like, at the moment, that the opinions of users, the reported bugs, the passion and the ideas, do not matter at all. At least at the moment. A roadmap is a good thing. I think any company should have one. Maybe share it with the community? I can well imagine how difficult it is to handle a game of the scope of FM and that you are looking towards the future, but wouldn't it be wiser to focus on the presence, too? I cannot imagine how you will cope with the difficult tasks of the future if you postpone the difficult tasks of the present.

I'm sure there were lots of areas where FM improved a lot. However, user critics indicate that the pace and quality of progress within the last six to seven years wasn't good enough. It would be a great thing if providing knowledge and feedback helped improving the game, We'll be looking forward to it.

This is not a problem for me since I didn't have high hopes for this version anyway. One could say I'm used to disappointment in this regard. But I can imagine that others did have those hopes and are now much more disappointed than before. I would rather guess people are still playing this game because they don't have alternatives, but this doesn't automatically mean that they're enjoying the idle state of progress FM has made in recent years, especially this year's ME.

@Neil Brock

 

Whilst there's areas of the match engine I'd like to see improved, stuff like this isn't really helping anyone. Literally takes about ten seconds to do your research:

Metacritic Scores
FM15 - 80
FM16 - 81
FM17 - 80
FM18 - 82
FM19 - 86
FM 20 - 84

Steam Reviews
FM17 - 57%
FM18 - N/A
FM19 - 83%
FM20 - 84%

[MBarbaric]

5 minuti fa, Fieldsy ha scritto:

"this issue is too complex to fix for the current patch and we are now looking to improve for FM21"

that is what they basically said. 

[FMSD0]

1 minute ago, Harrison Bored said:

Metacritic Scores
FM15 - 80
FM16 - 81
FM17 - 80
FM18 - 82
FM19 - 86
FM 20 - 84

I'm talking about user scores.

[GPower88]

No more match engine updates? I'll pack this game in then and probably count myself for next years game too. Disappointing but have to accept the game is not at the standard worth sinking time into 

[Harrison Bored]

1 minute ago, gonefading said:

I'm talking about user scores.

There's 44 ratings for FM20.  

Pretty much all the FM's are under 6 from user scores. If we went by that I think SI would be bust by now!  

[Cro-cop]

Few days ago i started playing again,  few seasons on key highlights. The idea was if the results are good, i dont care how i scored goals. Its too boring to watch. My plan was to go through season or two until the latest patch with improved ME is out, and then i will focus more on tactics and details. 

Now, when i saw we are stuck with this ME, which i consider the most boring thing in my memory of playing FM, i feel disappointed. And then we read that SI is satisfied with the game, and so are the people who are playing in big numbers. 

I was the one of those who was playing the game. That doesnt mean i am happy. It only means i grew up with the game and i play in hope to get to some interesting point in the save. So not everyone who is playing is satisfied. 

You wont lose people, gaming community is growing with each year. Gaming community in general, not just FM. That doesnt mean you should be happy with the game.

Actually, to be more specific, when i say "game" i mean ME. Because everything outside of it is incredible, but at the most important part you failed, in my opinion. So i am a bit surprised that it seems this is it, you will leave it in this state. 

 

[FMSD0]

6 minutes ago, Harrison Bored said:

There's 44 ratings for FM20.  

Pretty much all the FM's are under 6 from user scores. If we went by that I think SI would be bust by now!  

Terrible ratings do not really hurt user numbers. EA's latest FIFA releases are the best proof in this case. Once you have a monopoly the quality doesn't really matter at all anyway.

[davehanson]

14 minutes ago, Harrison Bored said:

Whilst there's areas of the match engine I'd like to see improved, stuff like this isn't really helping anyone. Literally takes about ten seconds to do your research:

Metacritic Scores
FM15 - 80
FM16 - 81
FM17 - 80
FM18 - 82
FM19 - 86
FM 20 - 84

Steam Reviews
FM17 - 57%
FM18 - N/A
FM19 - 83%
FM20 - 84%

They are critic reviews. Do some looking at the user reviews on Metacritic, the people that actually spend money to buy and play the game, rather than a critic who speed plays through 1 match and just see's shiny new things, and you will see this is the worse reviewd FM on there. Fact.

Steam reviews are massively skewed (wonder why) as they only allow reviews and scores to count from people who have bought directly through steam. I can, and have, reviews the game on there but it doesn't count as I didn't buy it through steam.

[Mcfc1894]

Making a New ME all together would be the best Idea for FM 21 

[FreezingTable]

No more ME updates for FM20? It cant be true. In November they release a game that is far for done and has a lot of bugs which makes the game almost unplayable for several months. 
 

Now the game is ok, but it has a lot of small bugs here and there that really should be fixed. If they stop rolling out new ME updates the developers can’t care about the costumer/consumer of their product
 

Also, I don’t see the point of releasing a new game every year. Why don’t make one game that has a familiar ME and which constantly can be improved? The last 2-3 years the game haven’t been really playable until the winter-update has been rolled out. That’s not good enough SI.

[davehanson]

14 minutes ago, Harrison Bored said:

There's 44 ratings for FM20.  

Pretty much all the FM's are under 6 from user scores. If we went by that I think SI would be bust by now!  

See, now you are spreading false information:

 

FM20 - 5.2 User Score

FM19 - 6.3 User Score

FM18 - 5.8 User Score

FM17 - 5.3 User Score

FM16 - 6.9 User Score

FM15 - 6.1 User Score

FM14 - 5.7 User Score

FM13 - 6.8 User Score

FM12 - 7.9 User Score

FM11 - 8.3 User Score

FM10 - 8.8 User Score

 

So, by and large the trend line for user reviews of FM is declining. From a high in 2010 users have found that it has, generally, got worse. And, only 4 versions under a score of 6 out of 10.

Do you wonder why there are only 44 reviews for FM20 as opposed to 284 for FM2010?

[Mitja]

31 minutes ago, Harrison Bored said:

Steam Reviews
FM17 - 57%
FM18 - N/A
FM19 - 83%
FM20 - 84%

Very interesting reviews there

All you guys disapointed with ME you should try 17 really. 

[KUBI]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Mitja:

Very interesting reviews there

All you guys disapointed with ME you should try 17 really. 

FM17 got a lot of bad reviews because there was no Chinese language version available after release.

[Mitja]

Just now, KUBI said:

FM17 got a lot of bad reviews because there was no Chinese language version available after release.

Lol that makes Sense. 

[Harrison Bored]

17 minutes ago, davehanson said:

So, by and large the trend line for user reviews of FM is declining. From a high in 2010 users have found that it has, generally, got worse. And, only 4 versions under a score of 6 out of 10.

Do you wonder why there are only 44 reviews for FM20 as opposed to 284 for FM2010?

Not especially, but I'll have a guess for your benefit. Is it because when FM10 was out leaving metacritic reviews was seen as cool, whilst now everyone has cottoned onto the fact it's largely pointless? 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Harrison Bored

[davehanson]

5 minutes ago, Harrison Bored said:

Not especially, but I'll have a guess for your benefit. Is it because when FM10 was out leaving metacritic reviews was seen as cool, whilst now everyone has cottoned onto the fact it's largely pointless? 

Yeah.

[f.zaarour]

I read alot of sadness about the game which i really understand. Much has been said about it. I also find it much harder to enjoy the game now then the FM's before. The ME is being the weak point at the moment for SI, sadly.
And it is not based of facts but I really have the feeling that the state of the game is not balanced in the eyes of many because of the focus that could be spread now with the FM mobile, FM touch etc.
So the work pressure might become harder every year and the revenue model is spreaded over those projects. It is just my thought but perhaps that could have influence on the quality of the game and in specific the ME. 

[sporadicsmiles]

2 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

We understand that these forums are an extremely passionate part of the FM community but do remember they are just one part of that community. We appreciate that people take the time to raise their opinions here and often it can be incredibly useful and insightful.

Since the release of 20.4 we've seen some calls to fix the match engine and that it's ‘broken’. While we respect everyone's opinions, this is something we simply don't agree with. We’re already our own harshest critics and recognise aspects (including those raised within the community) we want to improve long term, but we still believe it's the most realistic simulation of football there is.

That's not to say the match engine can't be made even better and your posts have a huge impact on the direction we’re heading in. We're constantly working on improving and have a roadmap that carries on for many years on how we can go about doing this. The fact the scale of our ambitions for the future requires such a considerable timescale indicates the difficulty and scope of the work ahead.

To change and evolve such detailed and comprehensive code takes time across multiple disciplines. Planning, reviewing, implementing and testing. As part of this we've always found our community extremely important in the process of constant improvement. Alongside our dedicated match team, which includes qualified coaches and ex-professional footballers, you help provide the knowledge and feedback that is constantly reviewed by the development team and helps shape everything you see in game.

We understand from some of the feedback seen in this thread that the news of no further match engine changes for FM20 will disappoint some here. But looking at sentiment overall and the number of people playing the game, the majority of our players are playing and enjoying FM more than ever before.

Thanks for the clarification on this point. Much appreciated. 

[Mrowe_86]

just seen the new updates and nice to see some players attributes match what they should be, but in my team liverpool its a mixed bag neco williams and harvey elliot and even trent and bobby have improved stats as does minamino yet the real breakout star this season curtis jones has had his go down?? are you mad?? and hoever and van den berg stayed as they are, also are we gonna get tackling added to the individual training options soon?? you can train a players shooting and passing why not tackling. good to see haaland that bit better too he was criminally underated before the update poor lad

[TheInvisibleMan]

Do find it a bit baffling that there'll be no more updates to the match engine. If we were in May/June and people were still complaining, I could understand it - SI would more than likely be looking ahead to FM21 by that point. But we're in March, potentially a whole 8 months away from the release of the next game and they've decided not to put any more time into developing this match engine. 

I understand the fact that some of the issues may require longer work, which isn't able to be done for FM20, but as people are saying this needs to be communicated to people if it is the case.

It'd be nice to see them take all this feedback and these issues onboard, which are clearly still there in the match engine, and give it a go at trying to iron some of them out in FM20. It's pretty depressing to have to wait so long for there to be an improvement in the match engine, and also knowing we'll have to shell out another £40 to find out if it actually has improved!

In my opinion they could win back so many people's approval simply by giving another match engine update a go and producing something that'll satisfy the majority of people playing the game until the next version 😔

 

[sorrenmills]

They already *are* developing next year's edition - that's the curse of being absolutely wedded, rightly or wrongly, to a yearly release schedule...

[Steve8066]

3 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

We understand from some of the feedback seen in this thread that the news of no further match engine changes for FM20 will disappoint some here. But looking at sentiment overall and the number of people playing the game, the majority of our players are playing and enjoying FM more than ever before.

well after that comment i can safely say i will never touch another FM for as long as you continue releasing them and FM20 is now uninstalled. 

Excellent way to treat loyal customers Neil, just excellent.

[Icy]

hace 1 hora, MBarbaric dijo:

that is what they basically said. 

And what they basically said a year ago regarding FM19, that had between other things, exactly the same issues regarding lack of central play and strikers movement.

I had hope for these to be fixed for FM20 and accepted to feel abandoned for FM19, but twice in a row... is too much even for us veterans since CM Italy.

From Neil's message I get either prepotency/complacency because they sell more and the press (who plays the game for 30 minutes) gives them props every year regardless what the core fans say or that they are blinded by that press and record sales and are fooling themselves thinking it is the best engine ever.

Both things are very bad for us, at the end that is why us old generation of players are more and more dissapointed with the gaming industry in general, once lead by passionate developers and now just by their companies yearly results (and the shareholders and publishers pressure), even if the games are dumber and dumber and mainly towards the youtube/twich and online generation.

SI shouldn't forget that the great game they have has been and always will be driven by the hardcore players critics here, and not by the pats in the back from the press and sales numbers, that will dissapear if they stop creating a great game with the hardcore gamers feedback.

Yeah I'm old and probably my gaming days are getting over and I shouldn't be listened anymore.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Icy

[Drebin893]

2 minutes ago, sorrenmills said:

They already *are* developing next year's edition - that's the curse of being absolutely wedded, rightly or wrongly, to a yearly release schedule...

That's just product development for you.

At some point though you need to move on to the next major version, so you can do things with new features and functionality that you couldn't do with fixes in a patch, ie:

Quote

We're constantly working on improving and have a roadmap that carries on for many years on how we can go about doing this. The fact the scale of our ambitions for the future requires such a considerable timescale indicates the difficulty and scope of the work ahead.

To change and evolve such detailed and comprehensive code takes time across multiple disciplines. Planning, reviewing, implementing and testing. 

 

[MrPompey]

2 hours ago, Nick_CB said:

Excuse me, but a game summarized in set pieces cannot be considered the closest to reality. I made a topic showing a match where my team scored 5x on set pieces and someone from SI said that the problem was being solved but it didn't happen

Other ME issues aside, the number of goals scored from set pieces in the premiership 18/19 I think was around 24% against a decreasing trend of set pieces awarded.

This was something Southgate quickly grasped for England in the last World Cup and he/the team focused  lot of training on. Check how many goals England scored from set pieces including those scored from the "love train" set-up.

Now I dont know what the stats are from multiple soaks in terms of goals scored from set-pieces in FM but this would be an element FM should attempt to replicate as its modern day football and likely does. That said I do believe there maybe a potential ME exploit which does need to be looked at among other ME issues.

If everyone posting about issues is raising a bug with lots of evidence that surely is the way we can hope to get improvement which is what we all want

[szp]

9 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

Other ME issues aside, the number of goals scored from set pieces in the premiership 18/19 I think was around 24% against a decreasing trend of set pieces awarded.

This was something Southgate quickly grasped for England in the last World Cup and he/the team focused  lot of training on. Check how many goals England scored from set pieces including those scored from the "love train" set-up.

Now I dont know what the stats are from multiple soaks in terms of goals scored from set-pieces in FM but this would be an element FM should attempt to replicate as its modern day football and likely does. That said I do believe there maybe a potential ME exploit which does need to be looked at among other ME issues.

If everyone posting about issues is raising a bug with lots of evidence that surely is the way we can hope to get improvement which is what we all want

Sadly, most of the bugs and issues (many of them very well reported - with a lot of evidence, pkms etc.) are still unsolved. I don't see the point to report anything - it's either ignored or SI is simply unable to fix it. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by szp

[stevemc]

Curious to see if anyone else has this issue; currently can't export highlights because FM20 won't link to YouTube logins, but then also when you export a highlight, it just spits out a blank/black highlight reel.

I'm a Mac user.

But has anyone else got this issue?

 

[MrPompey]

1 minute ago, szp said:

Sadly, most of the bugs and issues (many of them very well reported - with a lot of evidence, pkms etc.) are still unsolved. I don't see the point to report anything - it's either ignored or SI is simply unable to fix it. 

Change is not easy no matter what the subject is and it will come down to complexity and cost (resource / time)

I think everyone is united in saying they want positive improvement on both sides of the fence e.g. supplier and user 

I very much doubt its ignored, its likely prioritised and there lies the frustration. Ultimately the forums are the way to express it through bug logging and comment.

I've raised this several times and I'm sure there are pro's and cons to this but many software companies have working groups with suppliers and users. From a personal perspective that for me is a viable option and you will never please everyone and ultimately that in itself is another source of frustration.

I can only suggestion do please continue to log issues as that has the best chance of making positive change happen.

[craigcwwe]

3 hours ago, yandex said:

It's the set pieces man.. The set pieces.

Why couldn't their effectiveness/occurrence just be toned down a little bit? Just a tad. It's my only real deal-breaking gripe. The game is so good, but seeing 3 identical set piece goals some games, plus countless identical chances from set pieces, ruins it.

 

Because then every game would end 0-0. 

3 hours ago, Kingstontom88 said:

I respect Neil's post, but this section worries me and leads me to believe this game may continue going down the right path but with the wrong footwear. The features developed are great, but the ME - and this thread is a big indicator - has been a huge let down this year despite numerous tweaks and it's a massive part of the game. I hope it gets a lot of attention in advance of FM21 - but if playing figures are high, the question is whether SI interpret anything is actually 'wrong' with it, and will instead focus on the nice add-ons outside of the ME to keep justifying the release of a new game every year.

We will see, I guess.

Yes, that's the concern. We're 8 months out from FM21 and judging by the post Neil made (finally some clarification either way ) we're told that the development team on the game believe that the ME is in a state they believe to be acceptable. It's pretty much been universally panned wherever you look. I absolutely do not say that as a mark of disrespect fwiw, just that is what I'm seeing and reading on here, on social media and on YT from most of the content creators. 

If SI are basing that off of the sales numbers and players playing the game right now than, as you say, it does plant that seed of doubt in your mind for the next FM in terms of hoping the ME will be in a much better state than it is now. 

As I said recently, we don't need any new features at this point, not for a while yet, what we need is 'refine' not 'new' 

The rest of the game aside from the ME, oh and the imo, morale system being OP is fantastic. It's been badly let down by the ME from an attacking point of view. Lack of central play, lack of striker movement on the whole in all directions which imo is where a big issue comes into play and too many set piece goals. I also think the ME director needs a bit of fine tuning as it doesn't seem to be as good as previous FMs in what it shows you. 

I believe that SI can and will rectify this issue that a lot of the community has but it's going to take time. I posted before that the new defensive options that were added were a necessary step forward but SI only has a limited amount of resources, they aren't a huge company like Rockstar are and they simply don't have the funds or manpower to get both parts of the game well balanced by adding in any potential new attacking options to match the defensive ones. I imagine for FM21 and beyond those changes to the attacking side of the game will arrive and we'll have a balanced ME. 

I think SI has earned a level of trust from long time players that shouldn't be forgotten about in two years. 

2 hours ago, davehanson said:

They are critic reviews. Do some looking at the user reviews on Metacritic, the people that actually spend money to buy and play the game, rather than a critic who speed plays through 1 match and just see's shiny new things, and you will see this is the worse reviewd FM on there. Fact.

Steam reviews are massively skewed (wonder why) as they only allow reviews and scores to count from people who have bought directly through steam. I can, and have, reviews the game on there but it doesn't count as I didn't buy it through steam.

I don't put any weight behind critic reviews for FM. Jim from the Guardian or Brian from The Express aren't long time FM players. They likely don't know **** about the game, they've just been sent a review code by SI to get a bit of promotion etc. 

I read user reviews for this series, as well as playing the game myself of course. The long time FM players know what's what. They know a good FM from a bad FM and that's where SI should be putting more stock into, not the critic reviewers. 

2 hours ago, Mcfc1894 said:

Making a New ME all together would be the best Idea for FM 21 

I read on here from a prominent member of the forums that a new ME was in development. This was maybe 2.5/3 years ago now, maybe this year?

2 hours ago, FreezingTable said:

No more ME updates for FM20? It cant be true. In November they release a game that is far for done and has a lot of bugs which makes the game almost unplayable for several months. 
 

Now the game is ok, but it has a lot of small bugs here and there that really should be fixed. If they stop rolling out new ME updates the developers can’t care about the costumer/consumer of their product
 

Also, I don’t see the point of releasing a new game every year. Why don’t make one game that has a familiar ME and which constantly can be improved? The last 2-3 years the game haven’t been really playable until the winter-update has been rolled out. That’s not good enough SI.

Oh it's true. It's damn true.  

They have to release a new FM every fall. Their bosses at SEGA demand it. It's not SI that say they are going to release a new game every year. 

2 hours ago, KUBI said:

FM17 got a lot of bad reviews because there was no Chinese language version available after release.

Yep this. Got review bombed by the Chinese. 

1 hour ago, Icy said:

And what they basically said a year ago regarding FM19, that had between other things, exactly the same issues regarding lack of central play and strikers movement.

I had hope for these to be fixed for FM20 and accepted to feel abandoned for FM19, but twice in a row... is too much even for us veterans since CM Italy.

From Neil's message I get either prepotency/complacency because they sell more and the press (who plays the game for 30 minutes) gives them props every year regardless what the core fans say or that they are blinded by that press and record sales and are fooling themselves thinking it is the best engine ever.

Both things are very bad for us, at the end that is why us old generation of players are more and more dissapointed with the gaming industry in general, once lead by passionate developers and now just by their companies yearly results (and the shareholders and publishers pressure), even if the games are dumber and dumber and mainly towards the youtube/twich and online generation.

SI shouldn't forget that the great game they have has been and always will be driven by the hardcore players critics here, and not by the pats in the back from the press and sales numbers, that will dissapear if they stop creating a great game with the hardcore gamers feedback.

Yeah I'm old and probably my gaming days are getting over and I shouldn't be listened anymore.

I don't think SI are complacent at all. This has been the most updated FM imo. They are always adding new features to the game. Look at the impact the new defensive options have had on the game. That was a huge change to the ME. That's where the issues with the ME have come from. It's going to take them time to balance it out. After two versions, let's hope it's FM21 that nails it. I won't be giving up on the series but I'm not sure I'll be pre-ordering FM21 at release whereas in years gone by it was a no brainer. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by craigcwwe

[glenjamin]

3 hours ago, Nick_CB said:

Excuse me, but a game summarized in set pieces cannot be considered the closest to reality. I made a topic showing a match where my team scored 5x on set pieces and someone from SI said that the problem was being solved but it didn't happen

I think the point Neil is making is that there aren't many alternatives therefore FM20 remains the number one realistic management game and to an extent it is. The long-term players such as myself, and I'd imagine yourself, can see it doesn't meet the grade as previous editions did, and having played the game year after year we're able to critique the game more than someone who has only just bought the game for the first time ever or someone who doesn't extensively commit hundreds of hours of gameplay as we do. 

I can completely understand why there aren't any further improvements to the ME due to the level of code that is needed to change the game from what it is now, to what we'd like it to be. My biggest gripe is it should never have been released in this condition and I'm sure the devs too will agree with me to an extent, but simply can't say so for fear of publicly admitting their game has major flaws. As passionate as the devs are about creating the most realistic and enjoyable game as possible, they are also a business. As another poster mentioned FM20 is still in the Steam top 10. The needs of the many will outweigh the needs of the few. And right now we are the few. 

Going forward I really do hope the ME is the biggest priority for future editions. I like many really couldn't care less about interface changes or new features which end up being an annoyance or a chore. The interface for years has already been incredible and doesn't need that much alteration. The ME is what makes people enjoy the game. Seeing your team put together a 20 pass goal, in a quick tempo, seeing your wingers blitz their marker, the midfielders using their vision to pick out a Pirlo-like pass, and to see your striker make a clever run followed by a world class finish is the epitome of what makes this game the best game there is on the market. Sadly if you want that enjoyment you need to break out an older edition of the game. 

[andu1]

I am much more pleased with FM 20 than I was with FM 19. I was very critical with last year's ME but I am pleased with what they achieved this year. Of course it's not perfect , but then neither is real life football. I think many of you are accustomed to watching or supporting top teams who play the best football, but if you took the time to watch a football game from lesser leagues like Poland, Serbia, Romania or some other league other than the big 5 ( England, Spain, Italy , France and Germany ) you will see there is not that much central play involved, or that goals from set pieces are very common.