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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2020 January & February Transfer Updates Feedback Thread

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Just played and watched a whole match and there is a difference in the ME without a doubt, my players changed for the better and the opposition did not play as well due to lesser attributes, the whole dynamics of the game was different.  More space, better and worse passing showed up due to this, come on folks, give it a go. If you are reading this you own the game ( or if you don't you are really sad) Tweak the tactics and get back into it. Play footie and have fun.

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4 minutes ago, Old Joe Clarke said:

Just played and watched a whole match and there is a difference in the ME without a doubt, my players changed for the better and the opposition did not play as well due to lesser attributes, the whole dynamics of the game was different.  More space, better and worse passing showed up due to this, come on folks, give it a go. If you are reading this you own the game ( or if you don't you are really sad) Tweak the tactics and get back into it. Play footie and have fun.

The ME hasn't changed, there is no difference.

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I watched a film the other day at my local cinema. I hoped I would like it and be entertained. Unfortunately I thought it was a load of.... So I demanded my money back at the counter, then I phoned the producers to ask them what the hell they thought they were playing at. I paid to watch this film! I expected to be entertained. 

Obviously they both laughed at me... they told me you win some, you lose some.

They did say though that I was very much in the ABSOLUTE vast majority in expressing my dissatisfied views, and hopefully next time they’d offer me up some entertainment that satisfied.

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2 minutes ago, janrzm said:

I don't feel this helps the debate.....

Fair enough. Just some perspective.

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7 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

The ME hasn't changed, there is no difference.

For me it has, to the betterment. What ya gonna do?

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2 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

Seriously why is this guy still allowed to post? Offers absolutely nothing to this thread at all

Who? now are you questioning freedom of ideas and reply?

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2 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

Fair enough. Just some perspective.

I'm trying to respect the views of both sides here but your antagonistic tone really does diminish any points you try to legitimately raise.

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1 minute ago, Old Joe Clarke said:

For me it has, to the betterment. What ya gonna do?

No, SI have literally made no changes to it. 

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2 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

Seriously why is this guy still allowed to post? Offers absolutely nothing to this thread at all

Me? I don’t think that’s fair at all.

Re read the thread and you’ll find I’ve contributed hugely, both constructively, with feedback and with some, my favourite word on this thread, perspective.

But each to their own opinion.

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1 minute ago, janrzm said:

I'm trying to respect the views of both sides here but your antagonistic tone really does diminish any points you try to legitimately raise.

Ok.

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1 minute ago, WelshMourinho said:

Anyone else had their home page panels completely change randomly? Updated related maybe?

Just installed and can't say mine have changed. What was the change?

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Posted (edited)

Its a joke that they let the ME every n this state. A joke. New version will be fixed you say? No mate i wont be buying it. I payed 50 quid for football manager 2020 and all i got was crossing manager 2020. So if i play any new versions i will make sure its without my support for a company that does this shady stuff.  Nobody expects perfect i bet u already have the ME changes but u will use them for next version instead of this one. Now that is shady.

Edited by FM1000

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Just installed and can't say mine have changed. What was the change?

Processed after a game and pretty much everything changed. League table changed to the finances, manager performance moved completely to the far right, contract expiry dates appeared, pending transfers was also a new one that appeared. I can't even remember the ones it got rid of lol.

Loaded up an old version of the save and it's completely changed on those too, weird.

It's literally just changed again after another process.

Edited by WelshMourinho

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

No, SI have literally made no changes to it. 

I have just played a completely different game from what I normally watch and I say it has changed. I watch every second and how my players behave and it is different. Offer me some proof from SI that says nothing has changed and I shall eat my hat, I dont have a hat so I will have to eat yours.

Edited by Old Joe Clarke

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Just now, WelshMourinho said:

Processed after a game and pretty much everything changed. League table changed to the finances, manager performance moved completely to the far right, contract expiry dates appeared, pending transfers was also a new one that appeared. I can't even remember the ones it got rid of lol.

Loaded up an old version of the save and it's completely changed on those too, weird.

That's bizarre. Have you been able to change them to how you like it, and if so, are they staying that way?

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2 minutes ago, Old Joe Clarke said:

I have just played a completely different game from what I normally watch and I say it has changed. I watch every second and how my players behave and it is different. Offer me some proof from SI that says nothing has changed and I shall eat me hat, I dont have a hat so I will have to eat yours.

The proof is that if you check ME version in your game status it's still the same as before the patch.

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Posted (edited)

I've been feeling this game for years, but I don't know why you made each bug, mistranslation report thread. No matter how passionate users report, they don't answer, and even tell us how much they checked and how much was reflected. In the end, users have to make corrections and in the end, users have to swallow and wait. User can wait patiently. But at least I want you to tell me what's going on if you've created threads, collected errors, and collected data.

Edited by Kodiak

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2 minutes ago, szp said:

The proof is that if you check ME version in your game status it's still the same as before the patch.

The proof is in what I am seeing not a number in a box. I care less for disclosures and declarations to tell me what I see, I have eyes and a brain and I see a difference, lump it or like it...

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1 minute ago, Old Joe Clarke said:

The proof is in what I am seeing not a number in a box. I care less for disclosures and declarations to tell me what I see, I have eyes and a brain and I see a difference, lump it or like it...

I've experienced this before, several times. Trust your eyes. 

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Placebo effect is not a fantasy. It's real (the effect).

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, janrzm said:

I've experienced this before, several times. Trust your eyes. 

I do.

Edited by Old Joe Clarke

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Posted (edited)

No udpates for m.e.? Or something changed?

Edited by Vasiliy

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17 minutes ago, Vasiliy said:

No udpates for m.e.? Or something changed?

Please read the update changelist in the release post.

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1 saat önce, Tyburn said:

I watched a film the other day at my local cinema. I hoped I would like it and be entertained. Unfortunately I thought it was a load of.... So I demanded my money back at the counter, then I phoned the producers to ask them what the hell they thought they were playing at. I paid to watch this film! I expected to be entertained. 

Obviously they both laughed at me... they told me you win some, you lose some.

They did say though that I was very much in the ABSOLUTE vast majority in expressing my dissatisfied views, and hopefully next time they’d offer me up some entertainment that satisfied.

In what currency you tell me. English pound... Kid it is much expensive in other countries more than cinema.:lol:

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Please get back on topic guys- this is for feedback only

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The winter update was done rather half hearted. I don't notice any Sheffield Utd player updates, hardly any in Scotland, plus some strange PA's. Luckily I fixed these using the editor but it's still a pain, other than that I think it's the best fm in years.

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12 minutes ago, autohoratio said:

Post those in the relevant Data issues threads

If you have a hand, go to the appropriate thread. It is not reflected when people raise data errors many times. Then, post the text that fits the thread, follow the rules. Just wait. Are you all kidding me here?

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4 ore fa, Mitja ha scritto:

You won't miss any of those new instructions with FM17. Teams will normally defend narrower when ball reaches penalty area. I wonder how's LOE any different to what's been called simply Closing Down? Defensive Width option is good idea but it's implementation is poor or very one dimensional. All teams are using it with more defensive tactics which shouldn't be the case. It's use should be limited against narrow formations or against teams that have extra men in midfield. You never see team defending so narrow leaving flanks totally open. 

 

If you're suggesting width sliders for each line (defense, defending midfield, midfield, attacking midfield and attack) then wow, that could be a great feature - but I'm afraid of its implementation.

4 ore fa, Neil Brock ha scritto:

All issues on all bugs forums are marked in the same way. We've stated on previous occasions that due to time, resources and the nature of software development that whilst we try to make sure every thread is responded to and every issue logged, some issues won't be addressed immediately. These we'll always aim to address for future versions. 

4 ore fa, szp ha scritto:

I'm not sure what kind of feedback do you expect.  It's obvious that the main problem for most of the users who bothered to write here or in the bugs forum is poor state of ME. And you haven't changed it since january. Some of issues were reported when first version was released (5 months ago!) and are still unsolved...

 

3 ore fa, LazR ha scritto:

Let's just be patient and see if there is going to be another match engine update and then start to murmur, at least now it's playable after the ui fix.

I'm just summing up those comments as a summary to their main topic - ME.

I think it's none of a fake news to say some of the issues submitted back at 1930ME time still is an issue in the latest FM20 ME, innit?
Some of the bugs have been tweaked - and I'm not saying how much - some have not.

What I personally find disturbing is that at a certain point FM19 ME bug fixing had been stopped since the ME team was fully working on FM20 ME.
Since as of March 6th 2020 some of the bugs coded back in 2018 still are in FM20's code, and since my guess is the ME team has started working on FM21 ME so that FM20 ME won't be fixed any further - and yes, I don't think of any hotfix regarding ME - then I'm reflecting about things.

I can say that if I hadn't already bought my copy back in October, I doubt I would buy FM20 today.

Just my 2 cents, no offence meant. I understand it's not an easy task to code properly but it also is frustrating to other users and me.

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Just now, WilltheWolf92 said:

wingers with height of 1m60 and around still score to many headers

How many should they score given their diminutive stature on average, crossed referenced with good crossing and crossed referenced with poor defending, cross referenced with poor goal keeping and so on?

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1 minute ago, WilltheWolf92 said:

wingers with height of 1m60 and around still score to many headers

Is this a problem you're encountering when they're being challenged for the headers or is it when they have a free header? I remember last season Sadio Mane scored a lot of headers; He was able to evade markers and crosses came in at the right height for him to be able to get onto the end of them. Being short doesn't make you bad at heading the ball, it just means you're  less likely to win an aerial challenge if you're up against someone bigger.

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7 minutes ago, Kodiak said:

If you have a hand, go to the appropriate thread. It is not reflected when people raise data errors many times. Then, post the text that fits the thread, follow the rules. Just wait. Are you all kidding me here?

I'm not part of the research team, I wanted to point out this thread isn't the place for posting missed-out transfers. FrazT is just a forum moderator here and not a research team member.

The research team *should* check if you post the transfers in these threads, but for what it's worth I agree with you that not having any researchers provide a response when feedback is given or data issues are raised isn't good (I have plenty of experience with that unfortunately).


https://community.sigames.com/topic/495344-south-korea-data-issues For Ki Sung Yueng transfer
https://community.sigames.com/topic/495372-germany-data-issues/ For Lee Chung-Yong transfer

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3 minutes ago, autohoratio said:

I'm not part of the research team, I wanted to point out this thread isn't the place for posting missed-out transfers. FrazT is just a forum moderator here and not a research team member.

The research team *should* check if you post the transfers in these threads, but for what it's worth I agree with you that not having any researchers provide a response when feedback is given or data issues are raised isn't good (I have plenty of experience with that unfortunately).


https://community.sigames.com/topic/495344-south-korea-data-issues For Ki Sung Yueng transfer
https://community.sigames.com/topic/495372-germany-data-issues/ For Lee Chung-Yong transfer

What's the use of my irritation with you? I wrote on the thread without a break. Have a nice day bro.

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In the past three games, i have 1000+ hours, in FM20 i have 400, and thats it, i'm done, i won't play it again. For me it's not about win or lose, the game is just unplayable. The most important aspect of the game has reached a point that i can not even tell what's wrong. Despite all the big issues that everyone knows, there are inumerous small bugs that i doubt that will ever be fixed in FM21, for example, the short corners, i set my players to make short corners but they rarely does, bug that i reported in december.

I dont have the emotion to play this game again, i like to have a offensive team, and no matter what i do, all the games ends in 1-0, 0-0, and i stick with the best defense of a competition. And the sad part is, that this is not due to me.

 

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

In the past three games, i have 1000+ hours, in FM20 i have 400, and thats it, i'm done, i won't play it again. For me it's not about win or lose, the game is just unplayable. The most important aspect of the game has reached a point that i can not even tell what's wrong. Despite all the big issues that everyone knows, there are inumerous small bugs that i doubt that will ever be fixed in FM21, for example, the short corners, i set my players to make short corners but they rarely does, bug that i reported in december.

I dont have the emotion to play this game again, i like to have a offensive team, and no matter what i do, all the games ends in 1-0, 0-0, and i stick with the best defense of a competition. And the sad part is, that this is not due to me.

 

Without being to statistical, 400 hours in the first few months compared to the year you played the other games kind of marries up, maybe even leans to the side of you playing this game more..

What is your point? are you beaten by the challenge? Too hard? Ask for help in the tactics forum if you really want to play or even try harder all on your own, I did and it worked.

Peoples personal failure does not always equate to Match Engine failure. This has been gone over a million times now and will a million times more. Again try harder or ask.

This does go both ways as well, Si should ask a lot more and we will answer a lot more. I am a positive person and we can only get what we all want by clearing up this in a better format than just posting sound bites.

It is our game we love made by SI who should love us ( getting a bit hippy here) There is no benefit from us all getting pissy and cross with each other, which is what has be noticed by me and others in the thread and too be fare, with good reason. All points are for a reason, be it frustration or the need for help from a new player, we all strive for the best and that is without a doubt, SI want to be the best and we want to play the best after work or whatever we do with our days. I feel we are all unified with this despite some fractious moments along the way.

So now where do we go? What do we do? I want to make the game better for us all, bickering and negative comments wont achieve this but constructive comments might just get us there.

Who knows, we try...

Edited by Old Joe Clarke
Very late at night, you know...

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1 hour ago, Old Joe Clarke said:

How many should they score given their diminutive stature on average, crossed referenced with good crossing and crossed referenced with poor defending, cross referenced with poor goal keeping and so on?

just weird that some of them make 16 headers in one season while in real life they never made a header

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2 minutes ago, WilltheWolf92 said:

just weird that some of them make 16 headers in one season while in real life they never made a header

Sign more midgets is my advice.

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24 minutes ago, drizzlynewt said:

 

Hi. I don't know if you remember but a week or so back when I posted in this thread  you tried engaging me. I pointed out that I was posting directly to SI in the feedback thread specifically made by them requesting feedback, that I didn't care what you thought of my opinion, I didn't care what your opinion was and I wasn't interested in trying to convince you my opinion was right.

You seemed to get the message and stopped bothering me. I had hoped that you'd pick up on the subtext - that *nobody* in the thread made specifically to communicate with SI is doing it because they want to know what you think of their opinion - but you clearly didn't because literally every single time I've checked this thread I've seen you doing the same thing again with other people and occasionally posted sarcastic mockery of criticism which isn't directed at any individual in particular, examples of both of which I've included above. Perhaps it was remiss of me to be ambiguous like that. I'm gonna try to explain something to you and I don't think you'll like it but hopefully you'll understand after it.

People who are customers of a company are well within their right to provide feedback when it's requested. You can't say they're wrong. Determining whether something is good value is entirely relative based on a number of factors. To paraphrase you from a couple of pages back your opinion is that if you can pick a team, press continue and play a match that means it's working. Your implication there (and on other occasions) has been that as long as it's working at that basic level of functionality SI have done their job and people should be grateful for anything beyond that.

The problem with that logic is that this is an entertainment product, so working at a basic level isn't good enough. Perhaps people can't take legal action over this (and, even if they could, it's unlikely people would think it was worth the time) given that whether or not the entertainment is sufficient is entirely subjetive... But that doesn't matter.

SI are a company who release one of these games every year. If someone is unhappy with the quality one year they might just not buy it next year. As a consequence it is important for a company to get feedback. Sometimes it will be overwhelmingly positive and they can give themselves a pat on the back for a job well done. Sometimes they'll be able to fix it for this edition of the game and that'll engender good will from the customer base. Sometimes they're able to fix issues for the next edition and because they see that something was a frequent complaint they can make clear in the marketing that it's been "improved" or "revamped" which allows them to potentially convince people to buy it despite having not been delighted with this one. In a worst case scenario they might find that FM21 doesn't meet sales expectations and they can go back and see if there are issues they didn't fix which were an annoyance to customers and might explain why people haven't bought the new game.

All of which can be summarised as simply this; Negative feedback is useful to companies.

Now, as I highlighted above, people don't come posting here so they can have their feedback reviewed by you. People have already made clear that you're condescending and antagonistic. I've seen a moderator warn you for bickering with someone who you've obviously had previous with. This causes two problems;

Firstly it's been stated in previous posts that people from SI can struggle to follow this thread because of how little actual feedback there is relative to general chit chat. You spaming the thread up is unquestionably a prime example of this. I know you probably think they'll appreciate you sticking up for them but there will be someone at SI who has to read this at work as part of their job who is finding it difficult to gather pertinent information because of what you're doing. Further to this keep in mind that because of the number of sub discussions it's entirely possible that they start skimming, see what the topic of the sub discussion is and just make a note about that rather than reading every single post. As a result there might be someone who posts feedback *which you agree with* who, because there's no prolonged back and forth since you agreed with them so didn't feel the need to start one, has their feedback missed because it's just one post.

Secondly when people come into this thread to post feedback maybe they have a quick read and see you belittling loads of people who post something negative and they think "Well, I don't think I'll bother because I don't really want this guy bothering me just for letting a company know that I'm not happy with the product I got for them". Or alternatively, if they lack confidence, you might even manage to make them feel stupid for having a complaint before they've even posted it.

The end result of both of these things is that *valuable feedback is potentially lost directly as a result of your actions*.

You might say "Hey, not all criticism is valid though". Sometimes people have unrealistic expectations and unreasonable demands. In those instances, however, people who actually work at SI are much better equipped than you are to determine when that is the case and are completely capable of disregarding invalid criticism without you having to explain why it's invalid. Which is to say that *even when you're right about flaws in someone else's logic you still serve no purpose by saying it*.

I have absolutely no idea why you've looked at the official feedback thread which has a clearly defined purpose and thought "Yeah, people are definitely posting in here because they want to know what I think of their feedback, so I'll make sure I share". 

It makes me wonder; "What are you hoping to achieve?". In fact it seems to me like the actions of someone who's... Well, a bit "entitled".

So hey, I know I've just called you entitled, suggested your actions are futile, dismissed everything you say in a fashion which indicates I think you were a bit stupid to have thought it was worth posting in the first place, but just so we're clear... "You probably think I am, but I'm not looking for a fight!".

"Just a bit of perspective for you."

What a beautifully written piece. I agree with nearly all of it. A lot is nonsense, I’m entitled to express my opinion, I’m not entitled to be entertained. I hope I will be. But I’m not entitled to it. No one is with entertainment. But the major point you got wrong was that I wouldn’t like what you have to say. I love it! It’s perfect.

Well done.

Now could you give SI some actual feedback rather than just adding to what this thread actually is? Not what they hope it is. A place to discuss each other’s opinions.

Its impossible to post here without irony. Pretty much everything you’ve character assassinated me for you’ve just demonstrated yourself. Perfectly illustrated. Thank you.

But you are right. It is completely pointless me being here. You lot carry on moaning and winging about things that, as SI have demonstrated, they don’t give a monkeys about. If it makes you all feel better. 

As I’ve said, there have been some great points raised, and some valid criticism. If only it could be put as eloquently as you’ve just spent the last few hours composing. Some manage it, and I’ve always respected that. Most don’t. And perhaps I shouldn’t call them out on it, but all I see is hysteria. Not helpful.

The bulk of what I’ve argued, I’ve offered positive feedback. Sift through all the personal attacks I’ve had to fight through and it’s all there in black and white.

They need to know what they’re also doing right. To get some balance. 

And yes. To get some perspective.

But again, another post where I’m defending myself. Hopefully next year I can feel the need to write nonsensical frustrations and be part of the herd.

Probably not though...

I feel a ban coming on. 

Laters.

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Posted (edited)

Just one word, you parrot-like management. You don't think it's a problem that you're selling a game for $50 and even having an official license to give feedback like this? You can't post information that's wrong and not reflect it in the next patch. There are even years already. You might think it's nothing to others. But the only advantage of this game is the database. However, the wrong database and missing information are repeated every year, but the threads are left unattended without improvement. Once or twice a year the manager leaves a good note. But it doesn't tell you how, where, or how much it's been reflected. Then, he is working hard. Of course, I know that new movies come out and update every year because you worked hard. However, I think you should consider the quality of the database, not the speed and mannerism that is released on a regular basis. Shouldn't the Data Research Agency reside on the threads and reflect the information? Or should we at least raise the form, and if the data is uploaded accordingly, then we should introduce a way to check the authenticity and reflect it in the next update? There is still something I don't understand. More than 180 administrative districts in North Korea, which do not know whether the league is operating properly or how the country is operating, were added last year or not. However, the data on South Korean cities and administrative districts, where a league of its own is run in Asia, has not changed for years. Even about 80 cities are reflected. Is this normal? Even while the manager is advertising that he has a license for the South Korean K-League. If you need that information, leave a message to where and how to send it. Don't just answer what suits your taste like a child. At least if you're professionals, I hope you'll try to improve your mistakes.

Edited by Kodiak

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@Kodiak  It is acknowledged that you are frustrated and that is perfectly understandable.  Please, however, do not bring personal digs at the developers into your feedback.

Looking at the Data Issues thread that you posted in, it may be that there is a shortage of researchers for that country  and that does make keeping the data updated very difficult.  Perhaps you could offer to assist since you clearly feel very passionately about the accuracy of the information?

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