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Football Manager 2020 January & February Transfer Updates Feedback Thread


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14 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

Tactically, could it be that the AI is responding to what our, the users, tactics are? If Man City’s style isn’t being replicated against me it’s because of how I’ve set up. Again, I’m not really interested in how AI Man City plays against another AI team in the ME. It doesn’t affect my decisions. Perhaps it should, especially from a scouting next opponent perspective. But ultimately the game is designed for user input. Not AI vs AI.

 

I used City just as example. All I'm saying is that tactics should reflect real life logics and play like what they claim so that both humans and AI especially can play to their strengths. If you don't think it affects you and your gaming experience that's strange since every game you play is against AI. 

Edited by Mitja
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1 hour ago, He can't believe he's missed it said:

Does anyone else have issues with CPU teams just being completely unable to cope with a team that plays 3 at the back with wing backs? I've only managed to finish a few seasons without getting too frustrated and giving up, but every lower league in Scotland and England is just dominated by teams who play that formation - like played 36 won 30 kind of domination

I think this needs to be looked into.

Brighton finished top 5 in my game, 2 seasons in a row. With basically the squad they start the game with. They played 3 central defenders with wingbacks. Seems this particular tactical setup is overpowered.

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3 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

@Tyburn I think where we differ is where you see sophistication in management affecting the ME I see extremely easy logic checks where there is almost always a good and bad response. That goes for pretty much all of the management (beyond signing players) in the game and after a certain amount of time it becomes incredibly boring and a chore to do.

Sorry, I can’t leave this point...

What part of this year’s version of the management side of things is any different or worse than the last few?

You’re pointing to something that at best has always been this way or at worse has regressed. What’s changed in the actual managing of a club?

I also didn’t say I see sophistication in management rather sophistication in how the ‘tedious chore of managing your club’ as you put it, more closely affects what the ME shows us.

If you’re finding watching the ME boring and frustrating but also managing the club a chore, then yeah. Wow. Sorry you feel this way.

 

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10 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

With all respect to SI and it's developers/testers and Neil FM has been and is the only game I've ever pre-ordered every year. I've bought every copy and I've never gone backwards to play another copy once the new one was out, until FM20 where I've gone back to Fm18. 

And here is exactly why. Your rubiks cube now  looks like its had bits removed and never replaced and someone's clearly tried colouring over different colour squares to cheat and it frankly resembles a completed rubiks cube as much as my fridge does. 

I've rediscovered my love of FM on FM18 for the following reasons)(basically I think why everyone fell in love with this series to start with) . 

I start the season and I'm predicted to finish 2nd. The board want promotion. All fine I expect to be challenging for a title myself. I setup my tactics and formation and play my first 10 matches. We win 4 draw 2 and lose 4 to mid-table. Its a disaster. But its a disaster that has an obvious tactical source watching the matches. I'm over committing in attack and being hit on the counter. 

I make a few tactical tweaks and we instantly go on a 21 game unbeaten streak winning 19 and drawing 2. Going from midtable to 9 points clear at the top playing breath taking free flowing attacking football. 

Then we hit another sticky patch (around January) where we are getting caught in possession trying to play the ball out from the back. So I go into the transfer market and buy a ball playing defender to try and sort this problem. We play even better. 

My inside forward is an absolute wizard, he cuts inside he floats around into pockets of space, he goes on the outside. He puts low crosses in! (something that is conspicuous by its absence in FM20). He gets to the byline and pulls it back for an onrushing midfielder (instead of smashing it into the side netting like he would in FM20). 

I'm close to the end of the season and I'm loving playing the game because the ME looks and feels as real as it can watching sprites and more importantly I feel I have control over what happens on the pitch. 

I never once got this feeling in FM20s ME. It is a boring drag where free flowing football isn't even remotely possible. Where I lose games because of some random event rather than a tactical flaw to be analysed and overcome. Where I win games because well I've got the best side and the ME says I should win. I never feel I have any real control, I never feel my tactics matter. I never even really feel like the attributes of my players matter. Its an absolutely soulless experience. Something I've never said about an FM game, and I hope I never say again. 

If I could give 1 piece of advice it's go back and work from FM18s ME because it's as close to a completed rubiks cube you've ever been. 

 

This but for FM17 as well. 

1 hour ago, kiwityke1983 said:

@Tyburn I think where we differ is where you see sophistication in management affecting the ME I see extremely easy logic checks where there is almost always a good and bad response. That goes for pretty much all of the management (beyond signing players) in the game and after a certain amount of time it becomes incredibly boring and a chore to do.

With the ME I find it is so on rails this year. I don't find anything particularly dynamic or fun about it. I never once sat and watched and felt tactical tweaks would make a difference to my results (which because I'd passed all the management logic checks meant I won 80% of the time anyway due to the seemingly OP boost morale gives or removes). Add in players feel exactly the same, Player A does exactly what Player B does. Attributes are seemingly meaningless, with players who have awful long shot stats regularly scoring from 40 yards, 5'7" wingers out jumping 6'5" defenders and powering in towering headers, world class strikers missing sitter after sitter etc, which makes the signing of players and blending them into a coherent squad even kind of pointless. There has never been a feeling of putting in that final piece of the jigsaw and standing back and marvelling at its beauty. 

All of this adds up to make me feel so disconnected with everything within the game world. 

@themadsheep2001 you are probably right and it's their game but as a consumer of the game I'd argue those options have ruined the MEs simulation of football and added almost nothing to it. I think this year was an attempt to solve the issues around attacking identified in FM19 and it's been an unmitigated disaster with the ME creating even more dull and stale football than FM19 did in my opinion.

I'm more hopeful than optimistic that they can fix the ME as is, hence I recommended going back to when it definitely worked. 

Maybe they shouldn't have added the new defensive options to the game until they also had the attacking part of the game balanced out as well? 

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57 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

Sorry, I can’t leave this point...

What part of this year’s version of the management side of things is any different or worse than the last few?

You’re pointing to something that at best has always been this way or at worse has regressed. What’s changed in the actual managing of a club?

I also didn’t say I see sophistication in management rather sophistication in how the ‘tedious chore of managing your club’ as you put it, more closely affects what the ME shows us.

 

It's basically press A win Press B lose. The amount of times I've accidentally pressed the wrong option in FM20 then lost is unbelievable. Even worse I knew as soon as I'd pressed it I'd lost the game. That's all the ME is showing you in FM20. Nothing beyond that. It certainly isn't showing me any dynamic attacking flair because I've built a team with the correct dynamics and attributes. It isn't showing me my physically dominating CB command his area. Nope it's showing him get out jumped by a 4 foot tall winger for the third time today!

For me the illusion of control and immersion  is totally gone in FM20. 

In Fm18 however... It is absolutely there still. 

For example I just played the last 3 dead rubber games against 3 relegation threatened teams. I lost 2 and won only 1, our worst run of form since the first 10 games. We were awful in all 3 games and were lucky to win the third. 

Now why we lost those games, I have no idea. Could be tactical, could be something I said in a press conference. Could be because of motivation. We lacked it and they had it.

But in my head-Canon its absolutely because we had taken our foot off the pedal and were coasting through the games and I had failed to sufficiently motivate us and I felt likt I could see that in the ME. 

Not once, not even close have I come close to this in FM20. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

It's basically press A win Press B lose. The amount of times I've accidentally pressed the wrong option in FM20 then lost is unbelievable. Even worse I knew as soon as I'd pressed it I'd lost the game. That's all the ME is showing you in FM20. Nothing beyond that. It certainly isn't showing me any dynamic attacking flair because I've built a team with the correct dynamics and attributes. It isn't showing me my physically dominating CB command his area. Nope it's showing him get out jumped by a 4 foot tall winger for the third time today!

For me the illusion of control and immersion  is totally gone in FM20. 

In Fm18 however... It is absolutely there still. 

For example I just played the last 3 dead rubber games against 3 relegation threatened teams. I lost 2 and won only 1, our worst run of form since the first 10 games. We were awful in all 3 games and were lucky to win the third. 

Now why we lost those games, I have no idea. Could be tactical, could be something I said in a press conference. Could be because of motivation. We lacked it and they had it.

But in my head-Canon its absolutely because we had taken our foot off the pedal and were coasting through the games and I had failed to sufficiently motivate us and I felt likt I could see that in the ME. 

Not once, not even close have I come close to this in FM20. 

 

 

Interesting, and very strange. I’d have thought pressing the wrong button in previous versions would have also given you similar results. Apparently not though. Which is why I think FM20’s ME is more heavily influenced by your choices and actions in the management part of the game.

Ive also had exactly what you’ve described in your experience of FM18 in every version of the game, including FM20.

But again, we’re now at an agreeing to disagree point.

Edited by Tyburn
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Right I have to say this.

I have finally finished my first season. I'm a player who likes to take things slow and watch every match on extended and I spend too much time off the ME. I have like 8 to 10 seasons over 400 hours in older FMs if you wanted to ask HOW SLOW IS THAT.

So as Liverpool I have won the following:

Premier League

Champion's League

FA Cup

Community Shield

Quite normal for Liverpool yes? Except that Sadio Mane, Mohammed Salah were quite injury prone and Roberto Firmino failed to find his form except in matches like Carabao Cup.

Basically I should have lost and lost horribly yes? How did I win this much? While I thought that central play was not that good, everytime my AM got the ball and tried to shoot I could almost see it coming from 100000 miles away.

Long Shots and Set Pieces are nearly guaranteed goals but one on ones are a definite miss or saves by the keeper.

I don't know whether I should be happy or sad at the state of my wins. I hope the ME has significant changes in the next patch to improve the ME other than just one liners similar to "Improved set pieces".

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29 minutes ago, 99 said:

That would be great, waiting since Winter Update to be able to start a save (first window transfer bug).

Anytime before Friday will be cool :) 

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Trying to force myself through DXGI crashes and ME issues with a club and country career with New Zealand and Wellington Phoenix (commentary only is currently my only option to avoid crashes during matches so at least I don't get to see the ME). Thanks to superior squad building and AI struggles with A-league roster rules I won the league easily in first year. I also enjoyed using the national team (senior, youth, olympic) to develop young players while facing weak Oceania teams. Second year the fun quickly disappeared:

- other A-league teams are getting worse, losing their best (decent) players at the end of their contracts or even releasing them while under contract. AI simply can't handle A-league roster rules.

- at the end of the season the board decided to implement new club cultures including playing attacking football, playing entertaining football, play possession football and make the most of set-pieces. Any attempt to remove them or negotiate new culture were rejected and eventually caused an ultimatum. I mean it's no big deal because I tend to play attacking football anyway and score a lot from corner kicks (as per ME tendencies), but didn't find this very realistic.

- I can't sell any of my players (despite team and individual success) because only fellow A-league clubs are interested (and as per league rules they can't offer any money) so can't really make profits to develop the club (facilities, stadium etc) as we lose money every month. I'd be fine selling my best players for a million or two, but that seems just impossible.

- Tommy Smith, one of NZ best players, retired at the age of 30 after being waived by his MLS club in first season. He stayed without club for months, nobody tried to sign him except my club (he was willing to join but felt the club lacked the finances to sign him, so he never even discussed terms). I have Australia, New Zealand, MLS and EPL as active leagues in my game. Zero clubs interested in signing a valuable free agent who played regularly for his national team including the Olympics as over-age player.

- NZ captain and key player Winston Reid also announced retirement at the end of 2020 (aged 32) citing lack of playing time, despite having a contract until 2023 with West Ham and playing regularly on loan at a club in MLS. Lost both my starting centre-backs just like that.

- Youth intake of my club was awful despite an extensive youth recruitment, well this could be expected and realistic but just added to the frustration.

Interest in this save: gone.

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So my feedback.  Is the game seems to have went backwards on strikers again being literally pointless.  Game after game with my striker offering nothing and not just my striker....Other teams strikers also.

I'm at start of December in Premier League and the top strikers in the Premier League are registerng the following

Kane:  4 Goals and 3 Assists in 16 Premier League Games

Aguero:  2 Goals and 2 Assists in 15 Premier League Games

Pukki:  4 Goals and 2 Assists in 15 Premier League Games

Vardy:  6 Goals and 4 Assists in 15 Premier League Games

Abraham:  2 Goals and 0 Assists in 14 Premier League Games

Ings:  2 Goals and 1 Assists in 12 Premier League Games

I noticed it with my strikers being ineffective.....Martial/Rashford, but as soon as I switch them out to the wing.  Boom goals galore.  It also doesn't matter what role they play.  They literally have no impact on the game if played up front....and doesn't matter if I play 2 strikers, 1 striker, 3 strikers or even a player in the hole behind them, they constantly go through go 3-4 games without scoring. 

The stats above clearly show that AI controlled players are equaling any different impact and with all due respect to Martial/Rashford....Some of the strikers in that list should be performing a level or 2 above them.

For me it's a real shame, as the game started off with what I described at the time as the most enjoyable I've ever had with free scoring and free flowing football to this stale, grinding borefest.  

The sad thing is I reported in the exact same problems last year....and the first version of the ME actually showed it to be different and a positive improvement, but as the patches rolled by, we went back to thie same.

I just wish there was a way to play with the winter database on a previous ME...

 

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Just now, Bobek said:

No way its coming today bro 

 

1 minute ago, GOODNAME said:

When i saw this i thought it will be tonight.. but i dont think so now 

 

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4 minutes ago, Conor O'Hare said:

So my feedback.  Is the game seems to have went backwards on strikers again being literally pointless.  Game after game with my striker offering nothing and not just my striker....Other teams strikers also.

I'm at start of December in Premier League and the top strikers in the Premier League are registerng the following

Kane:  4 Goals and 3 Assists in 16 Premier League Games

Aguero:  2 Goals and 2 Assists in 15 Premier League Games

Pukki:  4 Goals and 2 Assists in 15 Premier League Games

Vardy:  6 Goals and 4 Assists in 15 Premier League Games

Abraham:  2 Goals and 0 Assists in 14 Premier League Games

Ings:  2 Goals and 1 Assists in 12 Premier League Games

I noticed it with my strikers being ineffective.....Martial/Rashford, but as soon as I switch them out to the wing.  Boom goals galore.  It also doesn't matter what role they play.  They literally have no impact on the game if played up front....and doesn't matter if I play 2 strikers, 1 striker, 3 strikers or even a player in the hole behind them, they constantly go through go 3-4 games without scoring. 

The stats above clearly show that AI controlled players are equaling any different impact and with all due respect to Martial/Rashford....Some of the strikers in that list should be performing a level or 2 above them.

For me it's a real shame, as the game started off with what I described at the time as the most enjoyable I've ever had with free scoring and free flowing football to this stale, grinding borefest.  

The sad thing is I reported in the exact same problems last year....and the first version of the ME actually showed it to be different and a positive improvement, but as the patches rolled by, we went back to thie same.

I just wish there was a way to play with the winter database on a previous ME...

 

The ME will continue to be what it is right now until they revamp the attacking part of the game to balance it out.

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20 minutes ago, Conor O'Hare said:

So my feedback.  Is the game seems to have went backwards on strikers again being literally pointless.  Game after game with my striker offering nothing and not just my striker....Other teams strikers also.

I'm at start of December in Premier League and the top strikers in the Premier League are registerng the following

Kane:  4 Goals and 3 Assists in 16 Premier League Games

Aguero:  2 Goals and 2 Assists in 15 Premier League Games

Pukki:  4 Goals and 2 Assists in 15 Premier League Games

Vardy:  6 Goals and 4 Assists in 15 Premier League Games

Abraham:  2 Goals and 0 Assists in 14 Premier League Games

Ings:  2 Goals and 1 Assists in 12 Premier League Games

I noticed it with my strikers being ineffective.....Martial/Rashford, but as soon as I switch them out to the wing.  Boom goals galore.  It also doesn't matter what role they play.  They literally have no impact on the game if played up front....and doesn't matter if I play 2 strikers, 1 striker, 3 strikers or even a player in the hole behind them, they constantly go through go 3-4 games without scoring. 

The stats above clearly show that AI controlled players are equaling any different impact and with all due respect to Martial/Rashford....Some of the strikers in that list should be performing a level or 2 above them.

For me it's a real shame, as the game started off with what I described at the time as the most enjoyable I've ever had with free scoring and free flowing football to this stale, grinding borefest.  

The sad thing is I reported in the exact same problems last year....and the first version of the ME actually showed it to be different and a positive improvement, but as the patches rolled by, we went back to thie same.

I just wish there was a way to play with the winter database on a previous ME...

 

The first ME is nearly always the most fun. The best? Debatable. The one that has the most glaring issues? Possibly.

But definitely the most fun.

Oh well ...

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9 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

To put the back and forth to one side a bit. It should be obvious they won't be going back to a previous FM, they will be using the current one as a platform to build on. The changes to defensive width and engagement are fundamentally important ones, and the aim will be to build on that and build the complexity of attacking movement to match. 

If they are using this years ME to build future games in the series on then I do worry about the future if the series. I for one most certainly wont be buying another version if it is as poor as this.

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Just now, davehanson said:

If they are using this years ME to build future games in the series on then I do worry about the future if the series. I for one most certainly wont be buying another version if it is as poor as this.

Well I mean they kind of have to. They cannot apply the same features to that of fm18 below cause of the defensive aspects and transitioning phases. If it was the old style maybe but I doubt they'd go back to that style when this is much more "realistic". 

Just gotta wait and see, honestly just wait till the demo comes out, I did it this year and stopped me from buying it, it's our choice to buy it really. 

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Played about 10 games over the last 2 days - the most I have played in months.

It really is set piece manager isn't it? The gameplay is so dull, this isn't an enjoyable game to play at all.

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Been away in Australia for a month on holiday. Got back today and was hoping to see if I could salvage something from FM2020... this topic makes depressing reading. :(

So its ekther hope its effectively patched or wait for FM2021 which I will be extremely cautious about buying at launch.

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1 hour ago, Robioto said:

Been away in Australia for a month on holiday. Got back today and was hoping to see if I could salvage something from FM2020... this topic makes depressing reading. :(

So its ekther hope its effectively patched or wait for FM2021 which I will be extremely cautious about buying at launch.

Stating the obvious here but why not try it for yourself and make up your own mind rather than draw a conclusion from the feedback thread?

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2 hours ago, majesticeternity said:

After loading all the mods I wish, my feedback is this:

match engine needs work. Attributes need to matter more, central play needs to increase, and morale should have less impact. 

I’m not seeing too many set pieces, randomness, crazy long shots, and things other people say. Strikers everywhere are scoring well. 

But I think the ME is not bad. 

The ME is viewed as worse due to Stats, and users’ play style. 

Stats: I got rid of them mostly, no CCC, total shots, possession %, etc. only crosses, shots, mistakes, shown for individual players. So instead of focusing on that my team is “dominating “, I can see that my left fullback has 4 mistakes at 30 mins in, so he’s probably under too much pressure.

Users play style: so many you tubers and users like to just sim a match. This year especially, you must watch games and actually manage from the touch line. If I just sim, the game seems random, unfair, odd, and I do poor or randomly very well. But if I watch the games, I can see they are sticking to my right winger like glue, he’s losing the ball, and they counterattack. Or my GK is passing to fullbacks and other team is pressing my defenders very quickly, so they panic and send it out for a corner or throw in and we concede. Or that the other manager has switched to a 3 striker formation with 15 mins to go , and i should go more defensive. Etc. you must watch the games and make changes! 

But many may not want to play this way, so it becomes frustration, and they should be able to sim if they wish. 

 

If if you watch real football, this ME is not it, because it can’t ever be. But watch Chelsea vs Bournemouth and Chelsea has 70%+ possession, but were 2-1 down, then 2-2. If it was FM people would say no way! We are dominating.  Replay!

watch psg vs Dortmund and you see many shots, few goals, shots from tight angles. People would say no, not realistic! Bad ME! 

Watch Man City vs Real, and you see many long balls over the top.

Watch Liverpool vs Watford, and you have title winners on a 44 game unbeaten streak against a bottom of the table team, yet the relegation candidates beat the amazing team not 1-0, not 2-1, but 3-0. People would have said no way!! Not possible! Replay!

Stop complaining, stop nitpicking, manage the game, enjoy the ups and downs, and if you really see an issue, do solid research like here, then either let it go and enjoy, or just go play another game.

 

 

Indeed. The managing part is what I feel too many are forgetting. Too used to a plug and play system of the past. 

Nearly all of the ‘issues’ can be mitigated through management. Both outside and inside the ME.

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2 минуты назад, Tyburn сказал:

Saying the ME is broken is just a cop out, in my opinion. It’s just too easy to blame your tools. Having played the series for over 20 years I’m willing to give SI the benefit of the doubt. I’m shocked at how many long term players are so quick to criticise.

Exactly! 

Yes, this ME has some bugs, i can't refuse it. But are these bug really gamebreaking? For me answer is not! I'm still able to implement my tactical ideas, i'm still able to make changes that will affect what i see on the pitch. What i don't like in this ME is animations in comparison with some previuous versions. But i have excelent tool for improving that - imagination :) 

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 Just a pure speculation from my part but since the transfer window is already closed and the update hasn't been released yet could it be that it's because they are doing some late ME changes and don't want to rush the update?

Otherwise , 20.3 included many good improvements except to the ME,

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vor 1 Minute schrieb andu1:

 Just a pure speculation from my part but since the transfer window is already closed and the update hasn't been released yet could it be that it's because they are doing some late ME changes and don't want to rush the update?

Otherwise , 20.3 included many good improvements except to the ME,

As you said, pure speculation.

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23 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

Woah there. That’s not what is being said, at least by me, at all.

Once and for all, of course it’s not about winning. Winning is irrelevant. It’s about what the ME shows us.

The ME is not showing me half of what others are seeing. Why is this? Seriously. How can this be?

Personally, I feel it’s because i’ve taken the time to hone my system over multiple seasons. I’m not saying others haven’t but most of the comments of ‘broken’ ME have lead me to believe a certain lack of patience. I have seen the ME spew out everything that people see and have a problem with. I understand the frustrations. I’ve played counter football, possession football, attacking football, high pressing, low pressing and I’ve seen ALL of these things in the ME. I see low crosses too. But finally, I have found a system that is a little bit of everything. Balanced. It looks good. It looks like football.

I’ve literally just been shafted in the Champions League final. I’ve been FM’d. Missed a pen, missed 4 ccc’s. Hit the woodwork 3 times. Dominated the game, but lost. Am I moaning about the ME being broken? No. I’m looking at what decisions I made in the process that caused the ME to wig out on me. I lost 1-0 to a wonder goal from an 18 year old newgen, who my scouts think is a 54. Personally I think I should have played a 33 year old Laporte alongside Dias in defence instead of Upamencano. Both have been great for me all season. I made the wrong choice. Or I should have told them to “do it for the fans” pre match? Who knows. It’s part of managing the club, right?

I can cry and scream all I want but there is a reason this happened. There is a reason we see endless missed chances, goals from set pieces and all the other ‘issues’ people have with the ME. And, for me, it’s management.

Saying the ME is broken is just a cop out, in my opinion. It’s just too easy to blame your tools. Having played the series for over 20 years I’m willing to give SI the benefit of the doubt. I’m shocked at how many long term players are so quick to criticise.

I respect everyone’s view. Like I say, I’ve seen the ME’s ‘faults’ like everyone else.

I just think there’s a reason for it.

I apologise if I have offended you, however I could equally say that what I don’t find fair is the complete barrage of criticism on this thread, for something I feel we should be giving SI more credit for.

No need to apologise, I just thought peoples opinions had been shot down as other didnt view it the same way.

I'm not of the opinion the match engine is broken either, but I do find it quite repetitive. I take a lot of time to look at all the details of my squad,tactics and staff to make sure I have what I need  before I even advance the 1st day on the game.

Like I said previously, I'm happy to see people are enjoying the game and I love everything outside of the match engine , but it has become stale for me but I still hold some hope that the last patch will fix some if not all of the issues.

 

 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

I can cry and scream all I want but there is a reason this happened. There is a reason we see endless missed chances, goals from set pieces and all the other ‘issues’ people have with the ME. And, for me, it’s management.

Saying the ME is broken is just a cop out, in my opinion. It’s just too easy to blame your tools. Having played the series for over 20 years I’m willing to give SI the benefit of the doubt. I’m shocked at how many long term players are so quick to criticise.

How can it be management when players don't spot most obvious through balls or missing all chances? Don't want to be rude but can you post some highlights of central play working for example? From your posts I'd say you tweaked your tactics to suite the ME and that's exactly what some of us are saying is wrong and differnt to pre FM19 ME where you didn't need to adopt to ME because different approaches were playing as they should. I'm talking about basic football stuff here like player movement, decision making, playing through balls, one-two's it was all there. I'm glad for that you managed to achieve all this but don't forget lack of central play, movement, poor crossing, possession issues etc are all acknowledged and we shouldn't adapt to ME version to achieve wanted style or even worse basic football moves. I'd say you managed to hit that sweat point but all other managers (the AI) in your game won't. Don't you think it's a problem?  

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16 minutes ago, coolestrock said:

I will never buy Football manager at launch ever again , its pointless , i got this years in the sale at Xmas , started trying a few tactics , then the Beta patch started which means the ME will be changed again, so tactics created will have a different affect , so you have to start again , i thought its best to wait until the big patch in March/April,, sadly even now i'm not to enthusiastic , i'm still on FM 2019 , and while its not perfect it means there are no patches to disturb my save  ,, what happened to the days where it came out and you made a few tactics and just played the game until the next one , it will be 8 months until the next release and i havent even bothered with this one because its not worth it.

At this rate my FM cycle will be April to April instead of November to November ,, if it takes them until April to sort this game out , why not put back the realease until then , i miss the days of pre 3d match engine ,, i would rather scrap it and go back just to commentary and 2d , those days seemed to be less hassle

Yeah thinking this too. 

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41 minutes ago, andu1 said:

 Just a pure speculation from my part but since the transfer window is already closed and the update hasn't been released yet could it be that it's because they are doing some late ME changes and don't want to rush the update?

Otherwise , 20.3 included many good improvements except to the ME,

It's never been a case with data that as soon as the window is closed everything is done so we can release it. All the files will be with the various researchers around the world which are then submitted to our internal research team. They'll check the data and it'll then be extracted into the game. Once this is done the data alongside any competition updates and the like can be tested by our QA team. This process will always take time, so don't think we'll ever be in a position to release a data update the day or even day after a transfer window closes. 

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4 minutes ago, Mitja said:

How can it be management when players don't spot most obvious through balls or missing all chances? Don't want to be rude but can you post some highlights of central play working for example? From your posts I'd say you tweaked your tactics to suite the ME and that's exactly what some of us are saying is wrong and differnt to pre FM19 ME where you didn't need to adopt to ME because different approaches were playing as they should. I'm talking about basic football stuff here like player movement, decision making, playing through balls, one-two's it was all there. I'm glad for that you managed to achieve all this but don't forget lack of central play, movement, poor crossing, possession issues etc are all acknowledged and we shouldn't adapt to ME version to achieve wanted style. 

Sorry, I don’t ever remember NOT tweaking tactics to work with the ME. Like, never. It’s a game. If you’re expecting it to look exactly like actual football, I think we are a way off that yet. It’s a simulator not the real thing. You may think previous ME’s more closely resembled football than this, I could possibly agree with this, in phases, but that doesn’t mean this years ME doesn’t resemble football.

FM simulates football in an incredibly sophisticated way considering the thousands and thousands of variables it must have to produce. Some elements may well be lacking, but to say that low crosses are non existent or central play is non existent I just don’t see. Perhaps we’re not seeing as much of it as we would like, to be honest I’m not setting my team up specifically for these things. They happen but not because I’m pushing them. ME testing isn’t really my thing. Being a football manager is. Tactics matter but so does management.

Everything you’ve listed I’ve seen in the ME. Have I seen them continually? No. Because no game of football sees the same thing over and over again. Are my players following my instructions? Mostly. But they’re simulating being human and so they make mistakes, don’t listen, haven’t played the system enough, don’t play well with other team mates, would rather be down the pub etc. 

I’ve played a variety of different systems, some more successful than others. I feel a certain amount of selective memory may be taking place here. Certain systems have ALWAYS been more effective than others in every single FM. I don’t see this version as being any different to any previous FM’s in this regard.

The problems you’ve listed may well have been acknowledged (I don’t remember seeing this actually, not all of them anyway) But what has been acknowledged officially is that balance is the key with the ME. Perhaps the balance is off, but it’s like maintaining a garden. It never ends. Tweak one thing and something else will need a tweak. It’s tricky because balancing the ME can sometimes lead to mediocrity. Which is personally how I feel what’s happened to this years ME. The first official release was fun, for me. Of course, I acknowledge some of the obvious issues it had. To be fair it’s still fun. But some of the random magic has gone for me now. Never mind.

I’ve talked about this to death it seems but your decisions have a direct influence on what the ME shows you, in my opinion. Why is my management, the decision to play one CB over another making my ST miss chance after chance? He’d scored 44 goals in total for the season. He’s bang in form. It doesn’t make any sense, right? This I agree with. The WAY the ME shows you something is wrong could definitely be handled better. But in my opinion, it’s every little detail matters. The ME looks at the WHOLE. Get one thing wrong, at any given time, and the ME wigs out. It’s just my opinion. All I know is that I was flying until my Champs league final and then suddenly it all went wonky. What is the reason for this? My only conclusion can be my choice over which CB to play, because that was the major choice I had to make pre game. Of course it could be a multitude of things, but it’s not that the ME suddenly broke. Or the AI had already decided I was to lose. Or that my tactic had suddenly failed.

I’m sorry the ME finds every single type of style difficult to compute. I do not doubt this is the case. But to put it into perspective, FM has always been like this, it’s not as though SI are doing this deliberately, the thousands of variables must be pushing the AI to its limit, most tactical philosophies can be made to work to some extent COMBINED with the WHOLE of FM management and decision making, not just tactics ... and it will get better.

Its a journey. For SI. For us.

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46 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

Everything you’ve listed I’ve seen in the ME. Have I seen them continually? No. Because no game of football sees the same thing over and over again. Are my players following my instructions? Mostly. But they’re simulating being human and so they make mistakes, don’t listen, haven’t played the system enough, don’t play well with other team mates, would rather be down the pub etc. 

 

All the things I listed are simple and basic football moves and actions, they are esential part of football and happen all the time in every game. I'm not sure what are you trying to say? That simple pass forward or into space is extremely rare in football? That strikers mark centre-back during attacking phase and don't make any movement? The only problem I have is the ME&Tactical systems regression. It was all there once.

55 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

I’ve played a variety of different systems, some more successful than others. I feel a certain amount of selective memory may be taking place here. Certain systems have ALWAYS been more effective than others in every single FM. I don’t see this version as being any different to any previous FM’s in this regard.

To a degree you're right every ME is different and favours something more. But I'm playing FM17 and everything looks so much more balanced and realistic, even low block defensive mentality tactics are deadly. Attacking tactics work too you can even dominate possession big time (like it's claimed in it's description). In FM19 and 20 tactics don't even resemble what they claim and play the opposite type of football than expected. Hence the prefference to balanced tactics in TTF or strange loooking everyone forward high press in download section. I'm yet to see solid defensive mentality low block tactics for FM20, nobody is even discussing it anymore. 

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7 hours ago, Gee_Simpson said:

I don't get the hate for the ME in here, it's certainly not as bad as people are making out. 

It's certainly bad in the following aspects:

1. One on Ones are guaranteed to miss unless divine intervention occurs.

2. Set Pieces and Long shots are almost guaranteed to beat the keeper like 70% of the time. I've literally done the treble in my first season thanks to "Oooh what a goal!"

Which certainly means central play is limited to magic through indirect freekicks or longshots. It's definitely bad.

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After seeing, what I felt, was a more realistic performance from the ME during the recent beta, the Winter Update has somewhat taken the wind out of my sails - my IFs seem to behave differently since the update, passing up opportunities to shoot where they did before, getting themselves in to awkward positions that didn't occur before (or occurred with far less frequency anyway), whilst my AM's form has fallen off a cliff as well (as has my box to box midfielder).

My tactic had previously been working quite well (I'm no expert by any means, but results were good) but since coming back to my save with the new update, everything feels 'off' in an attacking sense in the final third. Less crosses going in, less shots being attempted etc. 

It's becoming frustrating seeing an in-form team suddenly collapse in such a specific area of the pitch (rather than a more general collapse in form).

Is there a way for me to role the ME back to the beta? 

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2 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

It's never been a case with data that as soon as the window is closed everything is done so we can release it. All the files will be with the various researchers around the world which are then submitted to our internal research team. They'll check the data and it'll then be extracted into the game. Once this is done the data alongside any competition updates and the like can be tested by our QA team. This process will always take time, so don't think we'll ever be in a position to release a data update the day or even day after a transfer window closes. 

Thank you for the communication.

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From the noises on this thread about possible ME update on the next patch, it seems we are in for disappointment.

Hope I'm wrong, if I'm not, I'll hibernate till FM 21.

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20 minutes ago, Mitja said:

All the things I listed are simple and basic football moves and actions, they are esential part of football and happen all the time in every game. I'm not sure what are you trying to say? That simple pass forward or into space is extremely rare in football? That strikers mark centre-back during attacking phase and don't make any movement? The only problem I have is the ME&Tactical systems regression. It was all there once.

To a degree you're right every ME is different and favours something more. But I'm playing FM17 and everything looks so much more balanced and realistic, even low block defensive mentality tactics are deadly. Attacking tactics work too you can even dominate possession big time (like it's claimed in it's description). In FM19 and 20 tactics don't even resemble what they claim and play the opposite type of football than expected. Hence the prefference to balanced tactics in TTF or strange loooking everyone forward high press in download section. I'm yet to see solid defensive mentality low block tactics for FM20, nobody is even discussing it anymore. 

Your 1st paragraph: It all happens in this ME. My ST moves. I pass into space literally non stop. I’m trying to say that all the things you think are missing are in fact not, it’s just you’re seeing them less than you would hope for.

Your 2nd: It’s something I’ve been saying for a while. The descriptions are misleading. It’s why I always create a tactic from scratch. A custom tactic.

 

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20 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

Your 1st paragraph: It all happens in this ME. My ST moves. I pass into space literally non stop. I’m trying to say that all the things you think are missing are in fact not, it’s just you’re seeing them less than you would hope for.

Your 2nd: It’s something I’ve been saying for a while. The descriptions are misleading. It’s why I always create a tactic from scratch. A custom tactic.

 

Oh come on both those issues are acknowledged in dozens of threads in last two years. You managed to hit the sweet spot and adapt where ME looks better. Good for you and I was in same position where many of issues weren't noticable in my setup but once I changed my approach they appeared.

While descriptions might be misleading they are logical, for example I don't see anything wrong with different mentality or styles descriptions. It should be fundamental that descriptions match what is displayed but it's not. While it might not be a problem for you or me it is a huge problem for AI and thus whole football world in the game. We are talking about sooooo basic stuff here not some unimportant details.

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Sorry if this is a bit off topic. 

At the start of the game I selected a large database with top 5 leagues on playable, circa 38k players, but I'm missing a lot of players fx. Victor Nelsson is not in the game, even though the whole FC Copenhagen squad is there? same goes for couple of other Danish young players who are in the Danish U21, but missing in the game. I added the Danish league in October and it says it will load from June 2020. Will this mean from June 2020 I will see these players? 

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42 minutes ago, bcereus said:

From the noises on this thread about possible ME update on the next patch, it seems we are in for disappointment.

Hope I'm wrong, if I'm not, I'll hibernate till FM 21.

I went back to FM17. Found the latest data update what is basically 18/19 season. With ca, pa and transfers + added pr0 created wonderkids. Some are PA additions I made myself that I saw where wrong.

Enjoying it right now a lot.

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It's been two months since I last played FM20. I decided to wait for the final update.

I strongly disliked FM 19 and FM20. FM17 and FM18 I had some issues as well. My steam hours are significantly decreasing.

Four years ago, not buying FM in november seemed ridiculous for me. But in the last four years, the november-march cycle only gave me frustration, depliting part of my enjoyment

So the solution is easy for me. Not buying is hard, but changing the cycle from november-november to march-march will minimize my frustrations; minimize being the keyword here, because not even the march ME in the last few years have been good in my opinion. At most aceptable, but never good.

Usually, the march ME is the best for every edition (which does not mean it's good). I am tired of my stupidity of hating on the ME and still play it for hours and hours. I'll minimize that. FM21 march release for me :)

 

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