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Football Manager 2020 January & February Transfer Updates Feedback Thread

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vor 9 Minuten schrieb markroberts1985:

Hi mate,

thanks for replying. Unfortunately this doesn’t work though.

have you had the same issue before? 

If have third party graphics, skins or db files installed, remove them and try again. If that does not help start a thread in the bugs forum:

https://community.sigames.com/forum/738-crashes-technical-issues/

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Software will always have bugs. Change will increase the risk of a bug. The games is so complex in its UI and ME to make it immersive and have an AI that makes the game challenging as is without a preset difficulty factor. Its unbelievably complex to make things happen differently under certain circumstances that also have a slight randomness or luck factor. Its not a chess game or a calculator where certain inputs give always a specific result. How on earth do you program a game to simulate football - it fives at times such randomness that at times its unbelievable

In this instance with an option not working its clearly an oversight. Have 100 plates spinning on top of a stick and try ensuring each gets an extra spin from you to not fall off. I suspect for SI the number of plates far exceed 100

As you can guess I am a software test manager and you cannot possibly do 100% testing of a product. The cost and time would be astronomical. In addition this series is evolving every year.

In this case its seems checking all the other plates has meant this one didn't get spotted, wobbled and fell-off. Different people expect different things and certain options used by different people.

Test Automation can be so helpful but is unbelievably complex for software that is constantly changing. You simply cannot prevent bugs occurring, you can only apply risk factors and invest limited time and effort accordingly.

To help improve / avoid regression we can help by finding and logging bugs

Si will of course want to resolve this as they do every other bug but factors like resource and priority will impact how and when. 

The good thing I see in these forums is the passion people have to want a better football management simulation and set an expectation level that is very high. Its only by doing this we move to a better game. Stuff happens, people make mistakes and/or simply do not have time to check every single facet of the software as it would never get released.

The best we can do is raise and highlight a bug and express for those affected how much it affects them but in a positive way.

Find the bugs, log them and through posts in a positive way express your opinion. The more people that say how much a bug impacts the game will help prioritise a fix, if the usage stats also back this up. Do remember though not every bug can be fixed, time on one means another is not fixed - that sadly is life in the software world

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11 minutes ago, pejocho said:

I bought all editions of FM from 2007 until last year, when I got tired of not getting fixed the problems of the ME in any patch. This year I have not tried it but I read the same complaints. The problems of set-pieces, crosses, lack of central play or the 1 vs 1 of the strikers issue has been a problem since several editions. In case it was fixed, I would be the first to buy the game again, but I think that if Sigames continues along this path and does not fix the ME issues the number of customers will decrease.

I guess the answer is log the bugs, you may have done

Not sure what stats you are seeing but in an early post I detailed some Opta stats the the premiership 2018/19 had goals scored for 24% of set pieces and also the stats showed the goals increased against decreasing set-pieces given.

I never know if its the highlights that have the issue showing the incorrect highlights or ones that give an incorrect view. IRL it happens as well. I watch matches live and the highlights give a different view

 

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Does all countries transfer windows are closed or do we have any still has later closing date? 

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All the relevant transfer windows will close by tonight

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11 hours ago, MrPompey said:

Software will always have bugs. Change will increase the risk of a bug. The games is so complex in its UI and ME to make it immersive and have an AI that makes the game challenging as is without a preset difficulty factor. Its unbelievably complex to make things happen differently under certain circumstances that also have a slight randomness or luck factor. Its not a chess game or a calculator where certain inputs give always a specific result. How on earth do you program a game to simulate football - it fives at times such randomness that at times its unbelievable

In this instance with an option not working its clearly an oversight. Have 100 plates spinning on top of a stick and try ensuring each gets an extra spin from you to not fall off. I suspect for SI the number of plates far exceed 100

As you can guess I am a software test manager and you cannot possibly do 100% testing of a product. The cost and time would be astronomical. In addition this series is evolving every year.

In this case its seems checking all the other plates has meant this one didn't get spotted, wobbled and fell-off. Different people expect different things and certain options used by different people.

Test Automation can be so helpful but is unbelievably complex for software that is constantly changing. You simply cannot prevent bugs occurring, you can only apply risk factors and invest limited time and effort accordingly.

To help improve / avoid regression we can help by finding and logging bugs

Si will of course want to resolve this as they do every other bug but factors like resource and priority will impact how and when. 

The good thing I see in these forums is the passion people have to want a better football management simulation and set an expectation level that is very high. Its only by doing this we move to a better game. Stuff happens, people make mistakes and/or simply do not have time to check every single facet of the software as it would never get released.

The best we can do is raise and highlight a bug and express for those affected how much it affects them but in a positive way.

Find the bugs, log them and through posts in a positive way express your opinion. The more people that say how much a bug impacts the game will help prioritise a fix, if the usage stats also back this up. Do remember though not every bug can be fixed, time on one means another is not fixed - that sadly is life in the software world

I fully understand what you are saying.  I am not claiming that the situation is easy.

However, as I said in an earlier post on this thread, the fact is that, in the MMORPG world, it is the norm to have hotfixes coming out combined with routine maintenance.  Usually these take place on a weekly basis.  Thus, it's not a matter of a few large patches but a cascade of relatively small ones.  Indeed, patches are hotfixed outside the regular maintenance pattern as well.  You pick up the little patch as you log into the game. Basically, they seem to solve the problem which a bug presents and once they've done so they fire off a hotfix and go on to the next bug.

There may be good reasons why this approach wouldn't work with FM.  I don't know.  But, on the whole, players in the MMORPG world are largely kept on board by following it.  That's been my experience.

 

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18 hours ago, MrPompey said:

It does - Would a defender in a wall struck by a free kick be the last man - No as the GK is behind wall

What other shot is there thats on target not  stopped by a GK or outfield player? One that goes in :)

Raise this in an alternative forum as it will get addressed. This forum is feedback

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Only a few games into the season, and the schedule has thrown up two games in 3 days (Weds and Friday) :thdn:

khJriuK.png

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vor 1 Minute schrieb stevemc:

Only a few games into the season, and the schedule has thrown up two games in 3 days (Weds and Friday) :thdn:

khJriuK.png

Bugs forum, please.

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24 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Bugs forum, please.

I'll put it in there, but this type of thing has been going on for many iterations of FM.

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1 hour ago, Bry said:

Raise this in an alternative forum as it will get addressed. This forum is feedback

When did you become a Mod - Congrats

You missed the point of the earlier posts which this was part of

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11 minutes ago, stevemc said:

I'll put it in there, but this type of thing has been going on for many iterations of FM.

Your right, that has been like that for quite a few editions, screws up the condition of the players, unless you have a large squad. Maybe there is not a solution to this problem, that's why it keeps happening.

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I am really disapointed by this update. We are back to fm 19 ME issues with long shots & free kicks clown fiesta. I spend the last 2 days trying to have a tactic working without using some irrealistic me exploits and i failed. Look at this:

20200229112107_1.thumb.jpg.b844301b33359f7263f1d9f87a459f0b.jpg

23 goals conceded, ok. Let's see the clear cut chances converted.

20200229112057_1.thumb.jpg.22b44d5d3cc4c7153a27f35ef2673bd6.jpg

Weird, ONLY 6. I guess i conceded many free kicks.

20200229112102_1.thumb.jpg.66013a436bafab4b0e6006d8cba4bdc1.jpg

7 goals conceded on free kicks. Well...where all the rest of the goals are coming from? Oh...11 goals conceded from outside the box coming from individual exploits, but i have a normal line of defense. Why am i conceding so much long shots? 

I guess it is complicated to have a tactic working without a high line of defense...

To resume 23 goals conceded, only 6 clear cut chances converted, 1/3 goals conceded from free kicks, 1/2 from long shots. I am not a football analyst, but this seems wrong.

I start to wonder if SI is not doing it on purpose, by laziness or with cynical reasons. People buy the game hoping to see improvement, and there is improvement, slowly. But it is still really deceiptive for a game having a such success over the last years. You are not a small indie company anymore. You guys have the ressources to produce something better. 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, stevemc said:

I'll put it in there, but this type of thing has been going on for many iterations of FM.

But it also happens in real life. 2 games in 3 days is nothing new.

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Has anybody else noticed Ai transfers for other teams seem a bit wierd on the new patch seen a few saying on the forum

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12 minutes ago, Scotty Walds said:

But it also happens in real life. 2 games in 3 days is nothing new.

This one is a bug.

Edited by stevemc

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I am not sure if this is a bug or not, but I am interested in others views.

I play the game and love developing and bringing through my own players.  As a result, I am always on at the board to increase both junior coaching and youth recruitment.  Usually, you ask and if accepted, it takes a few weeks to take effect.  Then in another few weeks/months, you can ask again, subject to finances.

As Kings Langley, I asked and was accepted to increase both.  We are well over eighteen months later and still no upgrades have taken effect.  Also, I cannot ask the board as it is not an option.  Has anyone else had this?

All of this is since patch 20.3.

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1 ora fa, SpS_Zen ha scritto:

To resume 23 goals conceded, only 6 clear cut chances converted, 1/3 goals conceded from free kicks, 1/2 from long shots. I am not a football analyst, but this seems wrong.

i am and you are right, it doesn't seem normal at all. It might still be down to your tactic to an extent, or just random chance. no way of telling without watching the matches. looking just at stats one can't tell, especially not in FM where stats are wrongly tagged as we've seen with through balls, shots on target, tackles %...

it is really strange how SI does soak tests comparing in game stats with real life while their stats don't match the same definitions with real stats. means all their soak tests are potentially wrong. unless they use different stats for soak tests compared to in game stats which would make sense only if they are cooking their stats like Greece government did till 2008 crisis.

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Okay, here is my feedback. I play every year since FM12 and it's sad but I have almost no fun playing FM20. I don't say the game is broken but it's certainly not enjoyable for me. For me the most important part of the game is ME and I have to agree with opinion of some other users that the game is boring and random? at some point. I played almost whole season as Arsenal with decent results but I can't really remember any goal which was result of some nice passing combination. Most of the goals are coming from crosses, corners, rebounds or some unbelievable plays by individual players. Central play seems non-existent. You can say that my tactic is the problem but I see the same from the opposition. I have also some doubts about importance of player attributes. My best player is Bukayo Saka, 18 years old guy with average attributes and personality. He has 13 goals and 14 assists and average rating of 7,43! Players like Pépé, Lacazette or Özil are nowhere near this numbers and they seem helpless on the pitch. Meanwhile Saka is scoring some unbelievable goals, doing 1v1 or making accurate passes across the whole pitch. Frustration is the word which describes my experience with this game. If this is new direction of the game I am probably out next year. (I apologize for the mistakes, English is not my native language)

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The obsessive analysis of stats in the franchise is very much a new thing as far as I can tell. Once we were just happy to see who assisted the goals, who scored them, and to a lesser extent, how and where they were scored from.

It strikes me that as the game progresses, with more and more stats and analysis available the more people expect it to be accurate and mirror real football. This is fine, and as it should be, but it’s a process of progression in the game. A process that will take time to perfect.

It’s a simulation. It simulates football. It’s not the real thing. I personally feel that over analysing every little detail and finding all the games faults will only lead to disappointment.

Of course, SI is trying to emulate and mirror real football, and it does it incredibly well, but there will be limitations due to the sheer enormity of the task at hand. As AI improves and systems get better I’m sure it’ll get to be as realistic as the actual game of football itself. But right now it is what it is, and I’ve said this a lot recently, there needs to be some perspective.

It’s a game. It models itself on being an analysts wet dream, full of stats, but frankly I feel most are borderline unnecessary to play the game, and only get in the way, adding to confusion.

I mean, I love stats and tweaking, the core of FM. But I also just want to manage my team, create some tactics and have fun. I want to be a manager. Not an analyst. I hire those to do the job for me!

Just my thoughts.

 

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26 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

The obsessive analysis of stats in the franchise is very much a new thing as far as I can tell. Once we were just happy to see who assisted the goals, who scored them, and to a lesser extent, how and where they were scored from.

It strikes me that as the game progresses, with more and more stats and analysis available the more people expect it to be accurate and mirror real football. This is fine, and as it should be, but it’s a process of progression in the game. A process that will take time to perfect.

It’s a simulation. It simulates football. It’s not the real thing. I personally feel that over analysing every little detail and finding all the games faults will only lead to disappointment.

Of course, SI is trying to emulate and mirror real football, and it does it incredibly well, but there will be limitations due to the sheer enormity of the task at hand. As AI improves and systems get better I’m sure it’ll get to be as realistic as the actual game of football itself. But right now it is what it is, and I’ve said this a lot recently, there needs to be some perspective.

It’s a game. It models itself on being an analysts wet dream, full of stats, but frankly I feel most are borderline unnecessary to play the game, and only get in the way, adding to confusion.

I mean, I love stats and tweaking, the core of FM. But I also just want to manage my team, create some tactics and have fun. I want to be a manager. Not an analyst. I hire those to do the job for me!

Just my thoughts.

 

I'm actually sure this is what has ruined the game in some respects. The ME seems to try and mirror stats than re-create a realistic game of football. Look at the goals per games across a number of seasons playing different tactical styles and you'll see most teams average 2.5 goals per season. It used to be possible to far exceed that or go far under that and be successful. I don't think that's possible anymore. 

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Was going to start a new save. Will there be another update or is that it in terms of update? 

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2 minutes ago, StevehFC said:

Was going to start a new save. Will there be another update or is that it in terms of update? 

There will be one more data update, probably next week. 

As for a ME update, who knows.

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5 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

There will be one more data update, probably next week. 

As for a ME update, who knows.

Thanks mate. 

I'll just start a save and hope ME update is released soon. 

 

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Had to share my assmen advice. The ME is so bad AI Man City are playing with high crosses only because even the AI knows its the only way to score in this game. Silva had 2-3 headers over the bar. They are first in the league and won 6-0 last game against Newcastle. I watched the goals, 4 headers, 1 setpiece and 1 long shot. This is the AI. So bad........

FMME.png

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13 minutes ago, FM1000 said:

Had to share my assmen advice. The ME is so bad AI Man City are playing with high crosses only because even the AI knows its the only way to score in this game. Silva had 2-3 headers over the bar. They are first in the league and won 6-0 last game against Newcastle. I watched the goals, 4 headers, 1 setpiece and 1 long shot. This is the AI. So bad........

FMME.png

I'd be more concerned that your AssMan is giving you advice to deal with a guy who has just been subbed off!

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb Lexis:

They have such a big community with a lot of users who would gladly give up time to test the product yet they only recently started using the public beta. Perhaps engage us earlier in the development cycle and get more testing power in place?

 

It was stated before by SI that there are different levels of testing. But there is also a simple testing rule: Spotting a bug is not fixing it. And it is usually not just one line of code that need to be changed. The complexity of the game code makes it difficult to fix something without causing issues in another part of the game.

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3 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

I'd be more concerned that your AssMan is giving you advice to deal with a guy who has just been subbed off!

Haha. :D 173cm of heading power sitting at the bench. :D

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1 minute ago, KUBI said:

It was stated before by SI that there are different levels of testing. But there is also a simple testing rule: Spotting a bug is not fixing it. And it is usually not just one line of code that need to be changed. The complexity of the game code makes it difficult to fix something without causing issues in another part of the game.

Totally aware of that. I'm not saying their job is easy. All I'm saying is it looks like some "lessons learned" need to be performed.

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8 hours ago, Mcfc1894 said:

Has anybody else noticed Ai transfers for other teams seem a bit wierd on the new patch seen a few saying on the forum

Real Madrid bought Lucas Leiva from Lazio here, a bit random imo.

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2 hours ago, KUBI said:

It was stated before by SI that there are different levels of testing. But there is also a simple testing rule: Spotting a bug is not fixing it. And it is usually not just one line of code that need to be changed. The complexity of the game code makes it difficult to fix something without causing issues in another part of the game.

Just looked back at 18, no comparison it was way better. Excuses don't excuse your game is going backwards.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb sarahmatt:

Just looked back at 18, no comparison it was way better. Excuses don't excuse your game is going backwards.

It's not my game and no, I don't think that FM18 was the better game. There are issues with the ME, but for all the other parts I think FM 20 is the best version so far. 

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Was having same issues as a number of others on here since update - boring matches dominated with goals almost exclusively from set pieces, long shots and rebounds, lack of central play and incisive passing moves, Strikers on the periphery of most games etc.

Wondered whether I could still change ME to public beta ME which I had previously, I did and I now have an ME with entertaining, flowing football with a variety of goals. As I type, just scored a brilliant passing goal with Haaland playing a 1-2 with Guendouzi and dispatching - he now has 32 in 28 in all comps. Mbappe playing off the right has 27 in 28.

In short - I suggest giving it a try. If you don't have same experience as me, I suppose I should count myself lucky.

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5 minutes ago, Marcussy said:

Was having same issues as a number of others on here since update - boring matches dominated with goals almost exclusively from set pieces, long shots and rebounds, lack of central play and incisive passing moves, Strikers on the periphery of most games etc.

Wondered whether I could still change ME to public beta ME which I had previously, I did and I now have an ME with entertaining, flowing football with a variety of goals. As I type, just scored a brilliant passing goal with Haaland playing a 1-2 with Guendouzi and dispatching - he now has 32 in 28 in all comps. Mbappe playing off the right has 27 in 28.

In short - I suggest giving it a try. If you don't have same experience as me, I suppose I should count myself lucky.

Eh? There's only one ME available. 

The public beta ME is now the same as the official ME. 

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Sometimes the  best cure is the placebo.

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5 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

Eh? There's only one ME available. 

The public beta ME is now the same as the official ME. 

Genuinely baffled in that case because it's completely changed my experience around. Give it a try and see.

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35 minutes ago, Marcussy said:

Genuinely baffled in that case because it's completely changed my experience around. Give it a try and see.

I can promise you, it's exactly the same ME (because you can check what ME it's using in the options, and both the normal and public beta ME's are the same engine and patch number). You're purely experiencing a placebo effect, but if it means you're enjoying the game more, that's fine :thup:

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After a new and half season, defying all expectations with Bayer, i'm going to drop FM 20 again. I might go back if the ME is patched again. But i give up believing in the ability of SI to correct this one. I'm on a 60 match without defeat streak, but my offensive players are getting very poor rating because of the 1v1 issues. It might be a small problem to some, but it drives me mad! The match experience is poor, the feedback doesn't make any sense... Please make FM 21 ME better...

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4 hours ago, KUBI said:

It's not my game and no, I don't think that FM18 was the better game. There are issues with the ME, but for all the other parts I think FM 20 is the best version so far. 

I wouldn't say FM 18 was the better game, as I do enjoy the new additions to FM 20, such as club vision and various others however the ME in FM18 is far superior than FM20.

Everyone has their own opinion of course but if you look at the complaints of this years edition, the majority of it, if not all of it is the ME. Get the ME fixed (easier said than done) and this is the best FM yet but unfortunately it's not.

As I said in a previous post, FM 20 is a better overall game however FM18 (and FM19 to an extent) have a superior ME and unfortunately for SI that's one if not the biggest aspect of the game hence the amount of negative feedback/reviews on this years addition.

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I hated for the most part de ME in FM2019. This year's last patch is quite good, at least from what I've experienced. Yes, a tad too much headers, it could always have more central play, but overall I've managed to play nice possession based football, with good pressing and nice combinations to break defenses.

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