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Football Manager 2020 January & February Transfer Updates Feedback Thread

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2 horas atrás, MatthewS17 disse:

To be honest, I'm finding a massive qualm in the fact they aren't bothered to hotfix the disabled transfer window issues, or the missing links to staff pages, etc. 

I have and will never play a game without that first window disabled. 

Never mind we can't criticize the testing for not spotting something that's in your face. 

Approach seems pretty much "We'll fix it when we want to and you can just wait and see until then. If you don't like it, too bad. 

This time, every year, the new edition becomes prioritized without fixing the issues of the old. Happened with FM18, FM19, and probably now with FM20. 

This is my last FM version. So I'm actually hoping for it to be fixed. But I'm done with being dragged down into this pit of disappointment surrounding FM every year. The game in itself has become heavily predictable and boring. And a game that's about control and setup doesn't actually read what you want to do and follows a set structure. No pretty additions will change that. 

Yes, it's the first time I felt there is a problem here... I don't believe not one single tester missed something so big and so obvious, unless it wasn't even tested that way. This update didn't go well for SI and the so far unability to fix it, even worse.

29 minutos atrás, Rashidi disse:

Actually most people stopped posting threads here and left because of the toxicity, and have moved on to other channels to discuss the game. So its not cos of any perceived drop in quality of the game, but something else. At least that's what I've been told by the majority of people who used to post quality pieces on the forum. They just aren't interested anymore. The downloads sub forum is still very active. 

Also true, I belong to active FM groups with great discussions. Fan base is strong worldwide. And there was a time I had to leave this forums cause of that toxicity.

Edited by 99

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It's incredible how such an obvious bug got past testing, but as I thought, it will probably be fixed when they release the last data update next week. I can't see them releasing a hotfix for it sadly, even though I think it should have been, as it's not as if it's an obscure bug, it's pretty major. 

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@Travis Bickle  The SI staff do read the feedback thread and the lack of a direct response is not an indication that the content is being ignored.  One of the current issues with the feedback thread is that genuine feedback gets lost in the general discussion, so we do ask that users dont use this particular thread for general chat, which can be done in other threads.

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30 minutes ago, FrazT said:

@Travis Bickle  The SI staff do read the feedback thread and the lack of a direct response is not an indication that the content is being ignored.  One of the current issues with the feedback thread is that genuine feedback gets lost in the general discussion, so we do ask that users dont use this particular thread for general chat, which can be done in other threads.

Cheers for that. It makes me feel better knowing SI read these discussions. 

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Idk what to say except that I'm sad.

This just isn't working.

Gave it one last try, but I just can't play this ME, with all due respect.

My last 14 games:
235 shots
120 on target
19 goals

Out of those 19, 7 were in 2 games where everything seemed to go in, mainly set pieces.

12 games with:
202 shots
99 on target
12 goals
2 from penalties
1 own goal
3 from set pieces
2 from counter attacks with ccc finish
2 long range volleys
2 crosses into a header

Obviously, mid and lower table teams just sit deep and defend, but top class players still can't do anything about it.
"Medium" range shots (like 13-18m) barely go in, even the best passers and playmakers can't fool the defense or create anything and you're better off with b2b midfielders who cover more space and press.

My Villa save I played over the past few patches was the best test for this ME.
I barely changed my tactics from the 1st (finished 13th) to 5th season (won EPL). The better your team gets, the more you dominate. More chances, shots...but not goals.

Disclamer: I'm not blaming anyone or anything, but I'm just sad that I can't play the game I've been playing for more than 20 years now. A lot of effort has been put into it, it's amazing...except for the most important thing, ME.
ME in FM20 just comes down to if you're willing to resort a few gimmicks which make the game way too easy. Everything else is just random and doesn't work.

Edited by GunmaN1905

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I don't see why SI would apparently be dead set against releasing hotfixes.  

In many, many games this is the norm.  MMORPGs, for example, generally run a weekly maintenance when the servers are down for a few hours and mini patches are applied which fix bugs.  What's more, they actually give details of what's been fixed and so players feel that notice has been taken and something has been done to address problems, which keeps the player base on board.

If there's a major and obvious bug with a reasonably manageable solution then for goodness' sake, SI do a hotfix for it.  You don't have to wait and produce a massive patch that tries to fix everything at once. What's wrong with a trickle of mini patches to make the player base think you actually care about their game experience?  This would do wonders for 'Player Morale', the 'players' in this case being ourselves, your customers and likely buyers of FM21!

Go on!  It won't hurt!  Promise!

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Today I find that statistic on game is just wrong. 
for example: two shots one after another straight into the keeper counts as one shot on target.

another example: shot from free kick kicked into the wall and then went to the corner flag counts as shot on target. 
shot into the defender counts as shot on target. 
si, I honestly think that your obsession with statistic been real life is hypocrisy , considering this facts. 
how can I believe your words now?

Edited by Nicenoise

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49 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

'...it's not always just a case of quickly rolling out a hotfix..... '

Yes but it hardly ever seems to be a case of rolling out a hotfix, that's the point I'm trying to make.

People take the trouble to alert SI to a bug and post about it and upload files and so on.  All that seems to happen is that it's acknowledged and is then marked as 'Under Review' or something.  And frequently that seems to be about it.

Maybe the issue does get fixed for the next iteration. But that doesn't actually help people who are being annoyed by the bug right now.

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2 minutes ago, Rupal said:

Yes but it hardly ever seems to be a case of rolling out a hotfix, that's the point I'm trying to make.

People take the trouble to alert SI to a bug and post about it and upload files and so on.  All that seems to happen is that it's acknowledged and is then marked as 'Under Review' or something.  And frequently that seems to be about it.

Maybe the issue does get fixed for the next iteration. But that doesn't actually help people who are being annoyed by the bug right now.

If there's a significant issue affecting a large number of users we tend to have a pretty good track record of rolling out hotfixes. At some point it becomes a question of definition in regards to what a significant issue. We tend to look at the number of people who would be affected and how much it infringes the ability for people to play the game. 

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57 minutos atrás, Neil Brock disse:

Looking at the number of people who use the disabled transfer window it's normally less than 2-3% of the entire player base of the game, It is an issue we're aware of and will be something we address as soon as we're able to do so. 

I don't even know what to answer to this. I'm unhappy with the way SI handled this, since the moment this bug amazingly passed testing before release, to the point SI won't rol an hotfix as the majority don't use the option. Won't start ranting, but I'll register to myself as a player that only what the majority use is marked as important to fix.

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3 minutes ago, 99 said:

I don't even know what to answer to this. I'm unhappy with the way SI handled this, since the moment this bug amazingly passed testing before release, to the point SI won't rol an hotfix as the majority don't use the option. Won't start ranting, but I'll register to myself as a player that only what the majority use is marked as important to fix.

As said we're not currently in a position to roll out a hotfix for this issue but will address it as soon as we're able to do so. 

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58 minutes ago, Nicenoise said:

Today I find that statistic on game is just wrong. 
for example: two shots one after another straight into the keeper counts as one shot on target.

another example: shot from free kick kicked into the wall and then went to the corner flag counts as shot on target. 
shot into the defender counts as shot on target. 
si, I honestly think that your obsession with statistic been real life is hypocrisy , considering this facts. 
how can I believe your words now?

 

 

If the free kick that hit the wall or the shot blocked by a defender was originally going towards goal, then it was correctly judged as a shot on target.

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33 minutes ago, RHKC said:

 

 

If the free kick that hit the wall or the shot blocked by a defender was originally going towards goal, then it was correctly judged as a shot on target.

How can you decide was it hypothetically on target or not?

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3 minutes ago, Nicenoise said:

How can you decide was it hypothetically on target or not?

 

Using your eyes is usually a pretty good indicator.

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53 minutes ago, DamienQilBormliz said:

@Neil Brock are the dark homepage and dark-match screens being addressed too please?

Our graphics team have stated they're investigating the match screen issue, not entirely sure about the home screen one so I'll chase up internally as I would imagine it could be related.

Thanks. 

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25 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

He literally just said they will address it soon as they are able to. Please dont deliberately misconstrue people's words. All it does is make communication difficult

Yes but he has given no indication of any time scale.  Nor has he indicated WHY they can't fix it now.  Nor has he given any indication of how SI decides on priorities.  Just having a go at MatthewS17 doesn't cut it!

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2 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

People who use the disabled transfer window it's normally less than 2-3% of the entire player base of the game, ...

This kind of information is irrelevant and without significance since this option isn't selected by default. Why? Because people tend to just start their game without checking all the available options anyway. Most people get overwhelmed with game setups and the amount of possible options. You'd get the same result, in reverse--basically 97-98%--, if not a better one, if this option was selected by default. 

Spoiler

 

41 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Please dont deliberately misconstrue people's words.

There was actually no need to mention the usage percentages of this certain feature as no one was asked to do this. Someone would only do this in an act to justify their own priorities. I can't see anything wrong with the user reading into context. Maybe he should have kept this for himself, but it's at least what most people understood out of it anyway. That's no misconstruing of people's words at all. Also, I think NB can speak for himself in order to clear things up.

I guess both sides should be more careful with their choice of words in order to prevent those communication errors.

 

 

Edited by gonefading

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7 minutes ago, Rupal said:

Yes but he has given no indication of any time scale.  Nor has he indicated WHY they can't fix it now.  Nor has he given any indication of how SI decides on priorities.  Just having a go at MatthewS17 doesn't cut it!

I didn't have a go. So please don't misconstrue what I've said. They don't have a time frame they can give. Hence his words we are not in a position to, but will as soon as able. The information is there. 

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You certainly accused MatthewS17 of deliberately misconstruing what was said.  If the use of the word 'deliberately' in that context wasn't 'having a go' then what was it exactly?  How do YOU know that he was doing it 'deliberately'?

You have used exactly the same get out with regards to what I said as well.  Exactly what have I 'misconstrued', please?

This really isn't a satisfactory response to people who have perfectly genuine reasons for complaint.  And the information isn't really 'there' is it? No time frame and no explanation are forthcoming. 

Edited by Rupal

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This is killing my game experience at the moment. I cant play football game if  all my training keep disappearing. But I'm just a player. :D have to go play something else while waiting a fix.

 

Edited by Pasonen

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46 minutes ago, RHKC said:

 

Using your eyes is usually a pretty good indicator.

No way u can decide whether shot is on target or not if it’s blocked right after the hit

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5 minutes ago, Nicenoise said:

No way u can decide whether shot is on target or not if it’s blocked right after the hit

No-one will know for sure because the ball never gets the goal line so there is a element of a guesswork on likelihood. I would imagine in real life its an educated guess but in a computer game the details of shot on target would be accurate for obvious reasons

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Will there be any ME update in the last database update? I don't find the ME to be much improved since 20.1. Frankly i preferred the older ME. In this ME, cautious teams have sometimes abnormal possession in AI vs AI games and the ME is in general quite dull with less variance in goals scored.

 

Other than the ME , the rest of the game is fantastic with long term saves much improved with the new development center and newgen ( both players and staff ) stat balancing
 

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7 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

TMS clearly stated as I had, we'll address it as soon as we're able to do so. Please try to work with us as we head towards a more transparent culture, when we try to keep people informed understand why we're doing so and try to avoid arguments and accusations being thrown about. There needs to be a level of understanding that in some instances we can only give limited information. 

Saying that I'll try and expand as much as I can. With software development as I have said on a number of occasions, it's extremely difficult to give timescales as any changes require variable amounts of time. Not only in terms of coding, but most certainly testing and any knock-ons which would need to be thoroughly checked. You may think that process isn't that long, but if just one knock-on is found that extends any process considerably. 

In terms of an explanation, as I said, we're already working on another update which, whilst in doing so doesn't make it impossible to release a hotfix, would place a significant number of challenges on the team due to the processes required and the work already ongoing. In terms of prioritising as I said just a few posts ago, we tend to look at the number of people who would be affected and how much it infringes the ability for people to play the game. In this instance we don't feel this specific issue necessitates a hotfix given a number of factors, including that we're already preparing for an update after the February Window closes. We understand a number of users on these forums disagree with this decision and will take that on board moving forward. 

Yeah a simple hotfix is not that simple from a software development cycle point of view. But please release a ME update with the next update the game is not fun at the moment.

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1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

Our graphics team have stated they're investigating the match screen issue, not entirely sure about the home screen one so I'll chase up internally as I would imagine it could be related.

Thanks. 

Cheers, appreciated! The match screen issue is the most important one hehe :) cheers guys!

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1 hour ago, gonefading said:

This kind of information is irrelevant and without significance since this option isn't selected by default. Why? Because people tend to just start their game without checking all the available options anyway. Most people get overwhelmed with game setups and the amount of possible options. You'd get the same result, in reverse--basically 97-98%--, if not a better one, if this option was selected by default. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

There was actually no need to mention the usage percentages of this certain feature as no one was asked to do this. Someone would only do this in an act to justify their own priorities. I can't see anything wrong with the user reading into context. Maybe he should have kept this for himself, but it's at least what most people understood out of it anyway. That's no misconstruing of people's words at all. Also, I think NB can speak for himself in order to clear things up.

I guess both sides should be more careful with their choice of words in order to prevent those communication errors.

 

 

Do people tend to start their games like this? Really? I don’t.

You’re suggesting that people can’t see a tick box? So the percentages are because people don’t know starting with transfers off is even an option?

This is pure looking for a fight if ever there was one. 

As I guess is this comment to you. Although a fight is not actually what I’m after.

Just some perspective.

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2 hours ago, RHKC said:

 

 

If the free kick that hit the wall or the shot blocked by a defender was originally going towards goal, then it was correctly judged as a shot on target.

Lol, that is wrong. All of the stat-keepers online and for stat-companies, a shot only counts as "on target" if it's saved by the goalkeeper, or there's a goal.

The rest falls under "shots" - including shots that miss the target, shots that hit the woodwork(without the goalkeeper getting a touch), shots that are blocked.

Edited by yandex

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Opta Definition for clarity:

A shot on target is defined as any goal attempt that: Goes into the net regardless of intent. Is a clear attempt to score that would have gone into the net but for being saved by the goalkeeper or is stopped by a player who is the last-man with the goalkeeper having no chance of preventing the goal (last line block).

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Anyone knows when do all winter transfer windows close? Asking for a friend :D

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11 minutes ago, Jimmious7 said:

Anyone knows when do all winter transfer windows close? Asking for a friend :D

Could be wrong but I believe today.

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4 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

Whilst we understand the frustration of their being an issue which impinges on the enjoyment of the game for some users, it's not always just a case of quickly rolling out a hotfix. Especially so when we're already working on a data update as we announced when releasing 20.3.0. We do absolutely care about their game experience, hence why we've released so many updates for FM20 already and have split this data update into two to allow the European leagues to be available earlier than before. 

Looking at the number of people who use the disabled transfer window it's normally less than 2-3% of the entire player base of the game, It is an issue we're aware of and will be something we address as soon as we're able to do so. 

Neil maybe putting a post note at the top like in the previous feedback thread maybe useful? imo it was certainly responsive to less discussions and straight to the point which is what the feedback thread is generally for. Just a slight suggestion :)

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50 minutes ago, Jimmious7 said:

Anyone knows when do all winter transfer windows close? Asking for a friend :D

Bulgaria 29th I think that’s si transfer cut off point although Poland is mon 2nd mar 

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1 ora fa, MrPompey ha scritto:

Opta Definition for clarity:

A shot on target saved by the goalkeeper or is stopped by a player who is the last-man with the goalkeeper having no chance of preventing the goal (last line block).

it isn't just any shot though. it is a shot that would go in the net if it wasn't saved by the last man. 

 

maybe i read it wrong, but this doesn't seem to consider freekicks blocked by a wall. or any shot that doesn't require what you'd call a save ( be it by a gk or an outfield player)

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9 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

it isn't just any shot though. it is a shot that would go in the net if it wasn't saved by the last man. 

 

maybe i read it wrong, but this doesn't seem to consider freekicks blocked by a wall. or any shot that doesn't require what you'd call a save ( be it by a gk or an outfield player)

It does - Would a defender in a wall struck by a free kick be the last man - No as the GK is behind wall

What other shot is there thats on target not  stopped by a GK or outfield player? One that goes in :)

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2 minuti fa, MrPompey ha scritto:

It does - Would a defender in a wall struck by a free kick be the last man - No as the GK is behind wall

What other shot is there thats on target not  stopped by a GK or outfield player? One that goes in :)

didn't understand what you mean here.

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3 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

didn't understand what you mean here.

Oh sorry. 

Freekick hitting a wall wont be classed as a shot on target on the basis the man in the wall is not the last man, this would be the GK unless the wall is on goal line

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3 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

Saying that I'll try and expand as much as I can. With software development as I have said on a number of occasions, it's extremely difficult to give timescales as any changes require variable amounts of time. Not only in terms of coding, but most certainly testing and any knock-ons which would need to be thoroughly checked. You may think that process isn't that long, but if just one knock-on is found that extends any process considerably. 

In terms of an explanation, as I said, we're already working on another update which, whilst in doing so doesn't make it impossible to release a hotfix, would place a significant number of challenges on the team due to the processes required and the work already ongoing. In terms of prioritising as I said just a few posts ago, we tend to look at the number of people who would be affected and how much it infringes the ability for people to play the game. In this instance we don't feel this specific issue necessitates a hotfix given a number of factors, including that we're already preparing for an update after the February Window closes. We understand a number of users on these forums disagree with this decision and will take that on board moving forward. 

I appreciate you saying this, and I’m not having a go at you specifically, but ultimately a bug that means some people will be unwilling to start a save game is not wise to leave in there. Indeed it has been a feature of the game for many years that one has been able to do this, and it seems odd to suggest that a transfer update, which SI have done for many years can suddenly break this feature. And unfortunately I’m also left to conclude that the update was released knowing the bug was there (I’m happy to be contradicted on this point as it is my own theory). These are the kinds of basic things which lose you customers, and every decision that affects 3% of customers adds up over time. All I can say is, I wasn’t particularly bothered about the match engine, I thought it was alright, everything else was very good. What I can’t tolerate is basic errors like this, and thus I can’t imagine buying a new iteration for a few years. I just worry there will be two week spells where I may not be willing to play (see also determination bug from the first release).

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Hi there,

I am having an issue with Football Manager 2020. I have never had this problem before, maybe it has something to do with the new update that has automatically installed.

So I use a mac, I play through steam, and whenever I try to load up the game it doesn’t get past the first sports interactive load screen on the start-up. Basically the screen refreshes, goes to black and this error code comes up…

 

Football Manager 2020 v 20 . 3 . 0 – 1350875 quit unexpectedly.

“click reopen to open the application again. Click Report to see more detailed information and send a report to Apple.”

 

I have tried this and nothing changes. I’ve even tried uninstalling the game to see if it works, but it doesn’t. Any idea? I play all the time and its killing me haha.

Mark.

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3 minutes ago, markroberts1985 said:

Hi there,

I am having an issue with Football Manager 2020. I have never had this problem before, maybe it has something to do with the new update that has automatically installed.

So I use a mac, I play through steam, and whenever I try to load up the game it doesn’t get past the first sports interactive load screen on the start-up. Basically the screen refreshes, goes to black and this error code comes up…

 

Football Manager 2020 v 20 . 3 . 0 – 1350875 quit unexpectedly.

“click reopen to open the application again. Click Report to see more detailed information and send a report to Apple.”

 

I have tried this and nothing changes. I’ve even tried uninstalling the game to see if it works, but it doesn’t. Any idea? I play all the time and its killing me haha.

Mark.

raise this in the technical issues forum as it will get addressed. This forum is feedback

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb Neil Brock:

TMS clearly stated as I had, we'll address it as soon as we're able to do so. Please try to work with us as we head towards a more transparent culture, when we try to keep people informed understand why we're doing so and try to avoid arguments and accusations being thrown about. There needs to be a level of understanding that in some instances we can only give limited information. 

Saying that I'll try and expand as much as I can. With software development as I have said on a number of occasions, it's extremely difficult to give timescales as any changes require variable amounts of time. Not only in terms of coding, but most certainly testing and any knock-ons which would need to be thoroughly checked. You may think that process isn't that long, but if just one knock-on is found that extends any process considerably. 

In terms of an explanation, as I said, we're already working on another update which, whilst in doing so doesn't make it impossible to release a hotfix, would place a significant number of challenges on the team due to the processes required and the work already ongoing. In terms of prioritising as I said just a few posts ago, we tend to look at the number of people who would be affected and how much it infringes the ability for people to play the game. In this instance we don't feel this specific issue necessitates a hotfix given a number of factors, including that we're already preparing for an update after the February Window closes. We understand a number of users on these forums disagree with this decision and will take that on board moving forward. 

does this new update which still is going to come also include ME changes ?

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49 minutes ago, thejay said:

does this new update which still is going to come also include ME changes ?

Hope so it has come back in a bad state from last week. Pass Wide, High Cross, Far post header, repeat, repeat repeat. Can't remember it ever this unplayable on any version tbh. Shame because the game looks really good otherwise.

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2 hours ago, danstam said:

I appreciate you saying this, and I’m not having a go at you specifically, but ultimately a bug that means some people will be unwilling to start a save game is not wise to leave in there. Indeed it has been a feature of the game for many years that one has been able to do this, and it seems odd to suggest that a transfer update, which SI have done for many years can suddenly break this feature. And unfortunately I’m also left to conclude that the update was released knowing the bug was there (I’m happy to be contradicted on this point as it is my own theory). These are the kinds of basic things which lose you customers, and every decision that affects 3% of customers adds up over time. All I can say is, I wasn’t particularly bothered about the match engine, I thought it was alright, everything else was very good. What I can’t tolerate is basic errors like this, and thus I can’t imagine buying a new iteration for a few years. I just worry there will be two week spells where I may not be willing to play (see also determination bug from the first release).

Very much to the point.

It does seem odd that an update should have been able to start a bug which I drew attention to as well.  I have found several teams where the U 18 squads have disappeared since the patch.  That makes me reluctant to start a save using any of the clubs in question.

Now I know it's apparently only a few low level clubs where this seems to have occurred.  It may be more widespread and reach clubs higher up in the pecking order, I don't know.  But it is annoying and makes me wonder what other problems are lurking around.  It's pretty basic and, to my mind, symptomatic of inadequate testing having been done before the last patch was released.

I fully understand that there are only limited man hours available.  But remembering that 'a stitch in time saves nine', perhaps an even more careful testing procedure might not be a bad idea?

Edited by Rupal

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@Nicenoise - Calling people "fanboys" to indicate someone's views aren't as good as yours isn't allowed on the forum. Please try not to call people names in future.

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3 hours ago, danstam said:

I appreciate you saying this, and I’m not having a go at you specifically, but ultimately a bug that means some people will be unwilling to start a save game is not wise to leave in there. Indeed it has been a feature of the game for many years that one has been able to do this, and it seems odd to suggest that a transfer update, which SI have done for many years can suddenly break this feature. And unfortunately I’m also left to conclude that the update was released knowing the bug was there (I’m happy to be contradicted on this point as it is my own theory). These are the kinds of basic things which lose you customers, and every decision that affects 3% of customers adds up over time. All I can say is, I wasn’t particularly bothered about the match engine, I thought it was alright, everything else was very good. What I can’t tolerate is basic errors like this, and thus I can’t imagine buying a new iteration for a few years. I just worry there will be two week spells where I may not be willing to play (see also determination bug from the first release).

Leaving aside the match engine and all other issues, what I find strange is that the main benefit of releasing a data update is that people can start a new save game with updated squads etc and yet there's a bug that directly effects how people start these saves before they've even chosen their club of choice. I cannot see how this latest update has passed any kind of testing, & I'm pretty sure if this had been available in Beta (I'm not sure if that would've been possible) then the community would've picked up on this almost immediately.

I have no idea regards coding or game development, but quite clearly there's a lot of work being done behind the scenes. A quick look at the bugs forum shows how many problems there are, and I'm sure fixing some has various knock-on effects for other features. I can't help but feel that this update should never have been rolled out, and more care and attention should've been taken to provide us with a better product. I'm sure SI get a lot of questions regarding data updates, however I'm sure most long-term fans of the game (I assume this is the largest player base, however I'm happy to be corrected) are aware of having to wait until all transfer windows are shut, and are in the main happy to do so.

Edited by saware
Correction

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