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This is fantastic, please do not stop. I will read everything you post even if its not the same game!

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Fantastic work, sir. :applause:

Always love reading your content, so please do continue posting, regardless of which version you're playing.

22 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Then I use broad training programs such as Complete Wingback, Ball Playing Defender, Deep/Roaming Playmaker, Complete Forward for the bulk of their development.

Have you ever experimented with the default, Playing Position regime? As explained recently by Seb, it's the regime that covers the broadest range of attributes, but at a lesser rate (although only applicable when player doesn't need positional retraining).

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Posted (edited)

Thank you for the kind words everybody! :thup:

Also - if anyone has any idea how to get the size of the images down to be a bit more manageable please let me know. I am using a new computer; perhaps it's the higher resolution. The awkward size seems to make the thread quite difficult to read.
 

44 minutes ago, coach vahid said:

Why you win always vs Paris in all your thread...

You will me make play fm18. Again. 

Gracias. 


:lol: Yes! I did realise that when I was writing this. They've come up at least a couple of times over the years. Perhaps it's a good thing that they keep getting to finals!

I do actually have a save running with Paris Saint-Germain on the side. Not particularly interesting but I wanted to experiment with using an out-and-out centre forward as I realised it something I almost never use. You never know, maybe that will turn into something..

 

19 minutes ago, Zemahh said:

Fantastic work, sir. :applause:

Always love reading your content, so please do continue posting, regardless of which version you're playing.

Have you ever experimented with the default, Playing Position regime? As explained recently by Seb, it's the regime that covers the broadest range of attributes, but at a lesser rate (although only applicable when player doesn't need positional retraining).


Wow, actually no I had no idea about that. Yes, on many occasions if I knew that I think I would have used it. Thank you for the insight!

 

Edited by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!
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23 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Also - if anyone has any idea how to get the size of the images down to be a bit more manageable please let me know.

You could download free editing software like Paint.NET or ShareX, or use one of the online image resizers (Google "pic resize", since 3rd party links aren't allowed).

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Great thread and it would be a real shame to lose you if this was your last thread. I was curious how this tactic would look in FM20 so I tried to make it as close to what you have as possible for fun. Here's what I have. 

412183336_ScreenShot2020-05-26at7_42_54PM.thumb.png.3e52d12ca997c9f9105fdb5be16b8db9.png

Possession instructions:

1115474245_ScreenShot2020-05-26at7_43_39PM.thumb.png.06cf9cbfb5d3c1523ae57a83958b6a80.png

Out of possession instructions:

700285396_ScreenShot2020-05-26at7_44_53PM.thumb.png.96532893b161838c63f94f48658f059e.png

You didn't have any team instructions that fit into 'in transition' instructions so that was left alone. 

As I assumed it isn't possible to create a carbon copy of the tactic. I opted for 'much shorter' rather than 'slightly shorter' passing because you have selected the shortest passing instruction possible. I also opted for 'more urgent' rather than 'extremely urgent' because again you didn't select the most extreme closing down instruction. I could achieve a very fluid team shape although as you stated this seems pointless in the new game. 

The next issue I ran into was this:

1734584815_ScreenShot2020-05-26at7_53_32PM.thumb.png.f9a0fceb8808dc5e24d9b8d1eb383d4d.png

All players in this specific setup have an individual mentality of 'positive' except for the inside forwards (very attacking). So I looked to see the mentality for the other roles for the wingers.

1224009647_ScreenShot2020-05-26at7_53_46PM.thumb.png.cc230b2daec89e180096e4229cd9cdd3.png

607623381_ScreenShot2020-05-26at7_56_42PM.thumb.png.8a6e710bc751e3d212930f13a4d7feff.png

432934064_ScreenShot2020-05-26at8_00_16PM.thumb.png.ba52adf987085f99a27061dc91d05630.png

Inverted wingers advanced playmaker and wingers on support play with 'positive' mentality although it is an entirely different role and I'm unsure how it would affect the overall tactic. I attempted to add the overlap instruction to lower the inside forward mentatlity, but it only lowered to 'attacking'. Advanced playmaker is an obvious no because i can't have them get further forward and we only want one playmaker on the pitch. I suppose winger and inverted winger could work if I use players with the right PPM's. 

	  pos
va	         va
    pos pos
      pos
pos pos pos pos

I haven't tried using the tactic just yet and although I'm managing man utd I don't think my team is strong enough to play total football just yet. But I'd be interested in trying to recreate this. 

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@Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

Amazing once again. It would be a shame if this was your last thread. I've enjoyed your threads and personally I found the one about Barca from FM17 the best thread ever on this forum.

I would like to see you continue to contribute, especially if you decide to start playing FM20 or FM21 whenever it comes out. I think you have a lot more to offer here, especially considering most of the OGs like Cleon are gone. @Rashidi rarely posts here as well and he's more on Twitch now. 

 

@Pattric_b

The IF role has more attacking mentality than other roles because the role needs to offer more a goal threat and play differently than other roles, especially the IW. It still works nicely and personally I find it working better in FM20 than previous editions. 

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8 hours ago, Pattric_b said:

As I assumed it isn't possible to create a carbon copy of the tactic. I opted for 'much shorter' rather than 'slightly shorter' passing because you have selected the shortest passing instruction possible. I also opted for 'more urgent' rather than 'extremely urgent' because again you didn't select the most extreme closing down instruction. I could achieve a very fluid team shape although as you stated this seems pointless in the new game. 

The next issue I ran into was this:

1734584815_ScreenShot2020-05-26at7_53_32PM.thumb.png.f9a0fceb8808dc5e24d9b8d1eb383d4d.png

All players in this specific setup have an individual mentality of 'positive' except for the inside forwards (very attacking). So I looked to see the mentality for the other roles for the wingers.

1224009647_ScreenShot2020-05-26at7_53_46PM.thumb.png.cc230b2daec89e180096e4229cd9cdd3.png


Looks excellent, nice work! :thup: Extremely minor, but my only other suggestion would be to maybe up the defensive line/line of engagement as you really want that aggressive press.

Ah, yes. I was wondering how long it'd take to run into limitations on the FM2020 tactics creator! :lol:

My first observation would be that looking at the PIs the Inverted Winger and the Inside Forward are identical aside from mentality however there may be some hard-coded behaviour, as otherwise the change is utterly pointless.

In my system both have the same instructions but Jota could certainly be described as an Inverted Winger whereas Embalo more of a wide forward so I would suggest deciding based on the player.

I do not like the idea of 'very attacking' whilst the others are positive. That doesn't sound much like he'll be contributing to defence at all.

Does Inside Forward + Overlap give you:

            Pos
Att                     Att
      Pos         Pos
            Pos
Att   Pos         Pos   Att
            Pos

?

If so I think that looks pretty good. I actually think I direct replication of my system would be everyone on Attack but not sure how it's possible in FM2020. The labels are really subjective and 14 out of 20 would be on a boundary between Positive and Attack so it'd be extremely marginal. Just my OCD coming out again really :lol:

I don't know why on earth they don't scrap Duties all together and just let you pick an Individual Mentality anyway.. :seagull:
 

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14 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

In fact, going back a little further to 1969 the 4-2-4 shape was even more pronounced.


QUOSTy4.png

 

Really interesting post! I would be really interested to know how you would recreate Total Football using this shape (or a 4-4-2/4-4-1-1)

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:


Looks excellent, nice work! :thup: Extremely minor, but my only other suggestion would be to maybe up the defensive line/line of engagement as you really want that aggressive press.

Ah, yes. I was wondering how long it'd take to run into limitations on the FM2020 tactics creator! :lol:

My first observation would be that looking at the PIs the Inverted Winger and the Inside Forward are identical aside from mentality however there may be some hard-coded behaviour, as otherwise the change is utterly pointless.

In my system both have the same instructions but Jota could certainly be described as an Inverted Winger whereas Embalo more of a wide forward so I would suggest deciding based on the player.

I do not like the idea of 'very attacking' whilst the others are positive. That doesn't sound much like he'll be contributing to defence at all.

Does Inside Forward + Overlap give you:


            Pos
Att                     Att
      Pos         Pos
            Pos
Att   Pos         Pos   Att
            Pos

?

If so I think that looks pretty good. I actually think I direct replication of my system would be everyone on Attack but not sure how it's possible in FM2020. The labels are really subjective and 14 out of 20 would be on a boundary between Positive and Attack so it'd be extremely marginal. Just my OCD coming out again really :lol:

I don't know why on earth they don't scrap Duties all together and just let you pick an Individual Mentality anyway.. :seagull:
 

I wrote about this in a thread a while ago, I did not use any over/underlap. EDIT, WITH O/U-lap you do get that mentality on the wings with IF.

Spoiler

 

Next up will be my two advanced wide players. This was a role I was having problems deciding. I wanted both players to be able to give me width, which is something all wide roles except the raumdeuter can give you. Secondly I was not sure I wanted the wide players to be limited in their movement to strictly stick to the sidelines, that excluded the wingers. Thirdly with a trequartista up top I did not want more of those on the flanks. I did not either want any regular playmakers on the wings. Regarding wide target men I do not have players in that mould, nor do I want to use them. This leaves us with two roles left, the inverted winger and the inside forward. This was originally my plan, to use one of each on either side, but there was a huge but here - the inside forward could not paired with the rest of the tactical setup get a mentality lower than very attacking and with the trequartista already being at that mentality I decided against that role. So now the only role left is the inverted winger.

D7ribfj.jpg?1

 

Inverted Winger Pro’s and Con’s:
Pro's:
*Flexible - Can stay wide, cut inside, take more or less risk with passes etc.
*Creative
*Tracks back
*Is a goal threat.
*Positive mentality is fairly balanced for such an offensively fielded player.

Con's:
*Compared the the inside forward the inverted winger is less of a goal threat.
*Too much customization can make the role to take on too much responsibility.
*Positive mentality might not be willing to take enough risk.


The Inverted Winger is very flexible and can be customised to do a lot of different jobs, with a support duty there is only two locked in behaviours for the role. Cuts inside with the ball and dribble more. I used two different versions of the IW though. One on the right handed side, which I order the IWs to do two more things, get further forward and stay wider. This to get the IWs to keep the width and contribute more in attack. Sometimes the get further forward is removed.

In the game the IWs looks like this:

WO8Ft7y.jpg

 

On the left is where I wanted the inside forward, but I could not get it to work as I wanted it to (read to high mentality). So I compromised and created the inverted wing forward, or IWFs as he from now on will be known as. This player has the same Personal instructions (PI) as the right one (get further forward, stay wider) but it was also given cross less often and take more risk to create a player that was more inclined to pass rather than to cross. Hopefully this will also make the player play more as an inside forward because it now has all of the PIs an inside forward has (yes I know there are hard-coded differences).

FwEbCqe.jpg

 

 

Edited by Djuicer
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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

 

I do actually have a save running with Paris Saint-Germain on the side. Not particularly interesting but I wanted to experiment with using an out-and-out centre forward as I realised it something I almost never use. You never know, maybe that will turn into something..

Hello mate, great work as always.

I'd be very interested if you make a thread about this save. I realised the same thing as you recently, and tried to get a natural poacher being my main goalscorer in an fm touch save which i wrote about here. After a great start I felt like I had cracked it, but in the second half of the season, the goals dried up and those that he scored were mostly penalties and direct corners. We won the league but my poacher only got 26 goals in 36, and I'd say at least 10 were penalties/direct corners. Even though it's hard to check on FM touch due to the limited stats tab, it felt like my poacher only scored 3 or 4 open play goals in the second half of the season. Not good enough for a league winning poacher.

If you're set on not making any more threads, then hopefully you'd be able to share the save with us either through my linked post, or one of the many threads asking for help with goalscorers. I feel like you'd be able to help out myself and a lot of others.

Edited by Jack722
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9 hours ago, Pattric_b said:

Great thread and it would be a real shame to lose you if this was your last thread. I was curious how this tactic would look in FM20 so I tried to make it as close to what you have as possible for fun. Here's what I have. 

412183336_ScreenShot2020-05-26at7_42_54PM.thumb.png.3e52d12ca997c9f9105fdb5be16b8db9.png

Possession instructions:

1115474245_ScreenShot2020-05-26at7_43_39PM.thumb.png.06cf9cbfb5d3c1523ae57a83958b6a80.png

Out of possession instructions:

700285396_ScreenShot2020-05-26at7_44_53PM.thumb.png.96532893b161838c63f94f48658f059e.png

You didn't have any team instructions that fit into 'in transition' instructions so that was left alone. 

As I assumed it isn't possible to create a carbon copy of the tactic. I opted for 'much shorter' rather than 'slightly shorter' passing because you have selected the shortest passing instruction possible. I also opted for 'more urgent' rather than 'extremely urgent' because again you didn't select the most extreme closing down instruction. I could achieve a very fluid team shape although as you stated this seems pointless in the new game. 

The next issue I ran into was this:

1734584815_ScreenShot2020-05-26at7_53_32PM.thumb.png.f9a0fceb8808dc5e24d9b8d1eb383d4d.png

All players in this specific setup have an individual mentality of 'positive' except for the inside forwards (very attacking). So I looked to see the mentality for the other roles for the wingers.

1224009647_ScreenShot2020-05-26at7_53_46PM.thumb.png.cc230b2daec89e180096e4229cd9cdd3.png

607623381_ScreenShot2020-05-26at7_56_42PM.thumb.png.8a6e710bc751e3d212930f13a4d7feff.png

432934064_ScreenShot2020-05-26at8_00_16PM.thumb.png.ba52adf987085f99a27061dc91d05630.png

Inverted wingers advanced playmaker and wingers on support play with 'positive' mentality although it is an entirely different role and I'm unsure how it would affect the overall tactic. I attempted to add the overlap instruction to lower the inside forward mentatlity, but it only lowered to 'attacking'. Advanced playmaker is an obvious no because i can't have them get further forward and we only want one playmaker on the pitch. I suppose winger and inverted winger could work if I use players with the right PPM's. 


	  pos
va	         va
    pos pos
      pos
pos pos pos pos

I haven't tried using the tactic just yet and although I'm managing man utd I don't think my team is strong enough to play total football just yet. But I'd be interested in trying to recreate this. 

The F9 only have a mentality of Balanced.

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1 hour ago, skyline72 said:

The F9 only have a mentality of Balanced.

I use something similar and to get the desired mentality you have to, insead of the f9, drop it back into the AM slot and use either AM or AP in fm20. I personally use an AM but I am stil testing

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1 hour ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:


Looks excellent, nice work! :thup: Extremely minor, but my only other suggestion would be to maybe up the defensive line/line of engagement as you really want that aggressive press.

Ah, yes. I was wondering how long it'd take to run into limitations on the FM2020 tactics creator! :lol:

My first observation would be that looking at the PIs the Inverted Winger and the Inside Forward are identical aside from mentality however there may be some hard-coded behaviour, as otherwise the change is utterly pointless.

In my system both have the same instructions but Jota could certainly be described as an Inverted Winger whereas Embalo more of a wide forward so I would suggest deciding based on the player.

I do not like the idea of 'very attacking' whilst the others are positive. That doesn't sound much like he'll be contributing to defence at all.

Does Inside Forward + Overlap give you:


            Pos
Att                     Att
      Pos         Pos
            Pos
Att   Pos         Pos   Att
            Pos

?

If so I think that looks pretty good. I actually think I direct replication of my system would be everyone on Attack but not sure how it's possible in FM2020. The labels are really subjective and 14 out of 20 would be on a boundary between Positive and Attack so it'd be extremely marginal. Just my OCD coming out again really :lol:

I don't know why on earth they don't scrap Duties all together and just let you pick an Individual Mentality anyway.. :seagull:
 

Inside forward + overlap makes it:

image.thumb.png.89901141d051021a41ccc0f151bf8341.png

So better than very attacking at least. So its either IF and overlap or a customised IW to get positive on both. 

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3 minutes ago, AndersAas said:

Inside forward + overlap makes it:

image.thumb.png.89901141d051021a41ccc0f151bf8341.png

So better than very attacking at least. So its either IF and overlap or a customised IW to get positive on both. 

Thats incorrect. The LBs gets attacking.

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4 minutes ago, Djuicer said:

Thats incorrect. The LBs gets attacking.

Thanks for noticing. Thats even better getting compactness on the flanks. I just tried in the mentality calculator and not in the game itself.

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2 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:


Looks excellent, nice work! :thup: Extremely minor, but my only other suggestion would be to maybe up the defensive line/line of engagement as you really want that aggressive press.

Ah, yes. I was wondering how long it'd take to run into limitations on the FM2020 tactics creator! :lol:

My first observation would be that looking at the PIs the Inverted Winger and the Inside Forward are identical aside from mentality however there may be some hard-coded behaviour, as otherwise the change is utterly pointless.

In my system both have the same instructions but Jota could certainly be described as an Inverted Winger whereas Embalo more of a wide forward so I would suggest deciding based on the player.

I do not like the idea of 'very attacking' whilst the others are positive. That doesn't sound much like he'll be contributing to defence at all.

Does Inside Forward + Overlap give you:


            Pos
Att                     Att
      Pos         Pos
            Pos
Att   Pos         Pos   Att
            Pos

?

If so I think that looks pretty good. I actually think I direct replication of my system would be everyone on Attack but not sure how it's possible in FM2020. The labels are really subjective and 14 out of 20 would be on a boundary between Positive and Attack so it'd be extremely marginal. Just my OCD coming out again really :lol:

I don't know why on earth they don't scrap Duties all together and just let you pick an Individual Mentality anyway.. :seagull:
 

Yes this tactic creator compared to fm18 does appear to be limited. The individual mentality is a lot more ambiguous, instead of knowing the exact number for a players mentality they just use the positive, attacking labels. No idea if some roles are considered more positive or less positive than others, if you know what I mean. I don’t have ocd but not knowing 100% the players mentality annoys me lol. 
After playing with the tactic slightly and attempting to create something like the 4-2-4 version Ajax used in 1969 Europa final you posted, I noticed the inside forwards are too extreme with ‘very attacking’ so I am going to try and play with the over lap instructions on and see how that looks. Other than that I found it to be playing very nicely. Thankfully my squad are A lot more talented than I gave them credit for. 
At some point I am going to post my 4-2-4 total football tactic and see what you think. Thanks for your insight!

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Whoa, what a can of worms this has opened! :lol: I am trying to keep up with responses, but apologies in advance for anything I miss.

 

2 hours ago, gam945 said:

Really interesting post! I would be really interested to know how you would recreate Total Football using this shape (or a 4-4-2/4-4-1-1)


Thank you. Interesting question. In terms of playing style, exactly the same. This is actually one of the points I have been trying to make for a number of years. Once you have a clearly defined playing style you can apply it to and combination of formations or player roles depending on the context of your team.

For this in particular, I'd simply use 4-2-3-1. This easily creates a 4-2-4 in attack and 4-5-1 in midfield; the difference is you have an Attacking midfielder and a double pivot rather than single pivot.

The Attacking Midfielder (Support) is a lovely role and will give you that exact movement with Get Forward More.

As for the pivot - largely depends on the players and how much risk you're comfortable with. With Dantas and Florentino Luis, I'd be comfortable playing DLP(D) and B2B(S) because they both read the game so well, but this will be expansive. MC(D) and DLP(S) would be a more reserved option; the trade-off being losing one man ahead of the playmaker.

Complete Forward (Support) is my go-to role for a striker in this type of system as it roams, holds up the ball and scores.

In an earlier experiment I actually used almost this exact system to great effect with a slightly different playing style.


 

1 hour ago, skyline72 said:

The F9 only have a mentality of Balanced.


Well spotted. The False 9 having a lower mentality than the other attackers actually creates some nice overlapping movement. Again, personally I'd call 12 out of 20 'positive' but I suppose that could also be considered balanced. Unless, of course, it's actually now lower as it's impossible to tell whether mentality is still increased with entirely Support/Defend duties. Just adding more mud to the murky water.. :lol:


 

33 minutes ago, Djuicer said:

Thats incorrect. The LBs gets attacking.


I think that would work quite nicely :thup:

 

20 minutes ago, Pattric_b said:

Yes this tactic creator compared to fm18 does appear to be limited. The individual mentality is a lot more ambiguous, instead of knowing the exact number for a players mentality they just use the positive, attacking labels. No idea if some roles are considered more positive or less positive than others, if you know what I mean. I don’t have ocd but not knowing 100% the players mentality annoys me lol. 
After playing with the tactic slightly and attempting to create something like the 4-2-4 version Ajax used in 1969 Europa final you posted, I noticed the inside forwards are too extreme with ‘very attacking’ so I am going to try and play with the over lap instructions on and see how that looks. Other than that I found it to be playing very nicely. Thankfully my squad are A lot more talented than I gave them credit for. 
At some point I am going to post my 4-2-4 total football tactic and see what you think. Thanks for your insight!


The common misconception is that Duty directly determines how a player will play; whereas it is in fact a contributing factor to Individual Mentality.

An Attack duty player will be more attacking than a player on Support - and roles available on Attack duty are often more attacking themselves - but without knowing the full context it only tells us so much.

Once you understand this you understand a major part of the tactics creator.

The misconception leads to selecting too many Attack duties, particularly in more attack-minded tactics. This compounds to create Very Attacking individual mentalities, increasing risk of isolation, not tracking back or firing off ridiculous long shots (sound familiar? :lol:). The counter balance to this is to play a more reserved overall playing style, meaning people think you have to play 4-2-3-1 with 2 DMs and your wide players at MR/L in order to get them to defend. This is obviously not ideal and creates an issue at the other end that your Defensive players are now even more defensive, limiting their contribution to build up or creating lots of backwards and sideways passes.

Ultimately you want most teams to play collectively, with some room for individualism; but factored in to the overall system if you want to play nice football.

Much like the famous Johan Cruyff quote, but with roles/duties instead of players.


Z90G2jx.png

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2 hours ago, Jack722 said:

Hello mate, great work as always.

I'd be very interested if you make a thread about this save. I realised the same thing as you recently, and tried to get a natural poacher being my main goalscorer in an fm touch save which i wrote about here. After a great start I felt like I had cracked it, but in the second half of the season, the goals dried up and those that he scored were mostly penalties and direct corners. We won the league but my poacher only got 26 goals in 36, and I'd say at least 10 were penalties/direct corners. Even though it's hard to check on FM touch due to the limited stats tab, it felt like my poacher only scored 3 or 4 open play goals in the second half of the season. Not good enough for a league winning poacher.

If you're set on not making any more threads, then hopefully you'd be able to share the save with us either through my linked post, or one of the many threads asking for help with goalscorers. I feel like you'd be able to help out myself and a lot of others.


My idea actually comes out remarkably similarly to yours with only a few changes. How are your individual mentalities distributed across the team?

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2 hours ago, skyline72 said:

The F9 only have a mentality of Balanced.

I've found it impossible to allocate a role to a forward to make him positive. So far as I can see all the forwards on support are balanced and those on attack are very attacking.

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3 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

I've found it impossible to allocate a role to a forward to make him positive. So far as I can see all the forwards on support are balanced and those on attack are very attacking.

Like @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! had mentioned earlier, its probably 12/20?

Just that little bit more than balanced but less than positive. :lol:

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:


My idea actually comes out remarkably similarly to yours with only a few changes. How are your individual mentalities distributed across the team?


        17

        16      12      12

       11    7

        10   6    6   14

        6

Like this.

or in FM20 terms:

image.thumb.png.424c82911600ead84505502a5a185cb0.png

It's interesting that you got similar to me, it makes me think that maybe the reason my striker tailed off a bit towards the end was more due to inidivudal form and general fatigue rather than the system, seeing as he did so well at the start, and due to you playing in the same sort of style... I also pretty much religously played him every game so maybe that was detrimental.

I'd quite like to know the system and what sort of numbers you're getting for your striker, although it's cool if you don't want the thread to go too much off topic. :thup:

Edited by Jack722
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13 minutes ago, Jack722 said:

        17

        16      12      12

       11    7

        10   6    6   14

        6

Like this.

or in FM20 terms:

image.thumb.png.424c82911600ead84505502a5a185cb0.png

It's interesting that you got similar to me, it makes me think that maybe the reason my striker tailed off a bit towards the end was more due to inidivudal form and general fatigue rather than the system, seeing as he did so well at the start, and due to you playing in the same sort of style... I also pretty much religously played him every game so maybe that was detrimental.

I'd quite like to know the system and what sort of numbers you're getting for your striker, although it's cool if you don't want the thread to go too much off topic. :thup:


How are you getting those mentality numbers? Looks odd that 12 is 'very attacking' but 14 is 'attacking' and 10 is surely balanced?

Your system is good. My only suggestions would be:

  1. Tweak your system to avoid having 3 players on Very Attacking (see earlier post for explanation).
  2. Make your left back more attacking; your left winger is attacking on his own and there's a big gap between the two players on that flank.
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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:


How are you getting those mentality numbers? Looks odd that 12 is 'very attacking' but 14 is 'attacking' and 10 is surely balanced?

Your system is good. My only suggestions would be:

  1. Tweak your system to avoid having 3 players on Very Attacking (see earlier post for explanation).
  2. Make your left back more attacking; your left winger is attacking on his own and there's a big gap between the two players on that flank.

Thanks for the feedback!

tbf I have never used the mentality calculator, so I probably made a mistake with the numbers one. I also didn't realise that an IFs had the same mentality as a Wa. The general idea was 2 creators and 2 attackers with the AMs and IFs creating chances and the Wa and Pa making runs in behind. I'll probably reload the save at an earlier date and try again with the calculator info in mind. My poacher probably wasn't getting sufficient space with 2 very attacking players either side of him, and maybe that effected us as our rep became higher and teams defended more as the season went on. 

Making the left winger a support duty would solve both the problems of the gap on the left as well as having too many players on 'very attacking'.

Edited by Jack722
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Posted (edited)

Absolutely fantastic writing depth! Would be gutted if this is indeed your last tactic thread ever :(:( 

Edited by john1
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Im sorry, but how does the individual mentality affect the team?

If the whole team are all the same eg. All positive, they will be more compact?

In this 41221, wouldnt you want the IF(very attacking) to do their job which is to put thr ball in the net? Why bring it down to attacking with the overlap instruction?

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hi @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!. first, another masterpiece :D

i have to say i am very happy that you continue this adventure with your save and fm18. 

so quick question, how do you distribute the roles in the 4-4-2 diamond, and if you may, i get really curious about the 2-3-5 that you have...

i already see that you move to attack very fluid, i hope i can do that too :D

huge hug for you and cheers to this great save that inspire us so much  

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, skyline72 said:

Im sorry, but how does the individual mentality affect the team?

If the whole team are all the same eg. All positive, they will be more compact?

In this 41221, wouldnt you want the IF(very attacking) to do their job which is to put thr ball in the net? Why bring it down to attacking with the overlap instruction?

Yes, all will be more compact with the same mentality (or close mentalities).

Sure, but it won't be total football if there are to big diffrences. Remeber its supposed to be fluent, and every player is supposed to be attacking and defending together. Very attacking players will not do that. Which means no total football.

Edited by Djuicer
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2 minutes ago, Djuicer said:

Yes, all will be more compact with the same mentality (or close mentalities).

Sure, but it won't be total football if there are to big diffrences. Remeber its supposed to be fluent, and every player is supposed to be attacking and defending together. Very attacking players will not do that. Which means no total football.

Ahhh.

I used to think that just the duties matters. 

Learning new stuff yet again. 

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Posted (edited)

Once again, legendary stuff @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!. I've followed closely the Caixa Futebol Campus thread. I truly believe that's the GOAT thread on this forum.

I do enjoy your writing style, so please do keep up the great work.

19 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Also - if anyone has any idea how to get the size of the images down to be a bit more manageable please let me know. I am using a new computer; perhaps it's the higher resolution. The awkward size seems to make the thread quite difficult to read.

You're probably on a Mac with Retina display so screenshots come twice as big. If you use Preview, go to Tools -> Adjust Size et voilá.

Edited by MadOnion
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15 minutes ago, MadOnion said:

Once again, legendary stuff @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!. I've followed closely the Caixa Futebol Campus thread. I truly believe that's the GOAT thread on this forum.

I do enjoy your writing style, so please do keep up the great work.

You're probably on a Mac with Retina display so screenshots come twice and big. If you use Preview, go to Tools -> Adjust Size et voilá.


Ah, awesome. Thank you so much. What size do I want? At the moment it's width 50.8cm, height 31.75cm, Resolution 144pixels/inch and scale proportionally is ticked. Sorry if that's a dumb question, hopeless with this stuff..

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Resolution is fine. Change units to "per cent" and update the width to 50% (if it's too small, you can try something bigger). I always have to resize my images before posting them on here. 

 559077701_Screenshot2020-05-27at15_59_43.thumb.png.43b6117bfd076587999c54c7189e9167.png

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Thank you for this post, this is my favourite style of play. I want to share how I translated to FM20.

 

q6mb2h2.png

 

All players on positive, besides F9 who is balanced. All the front 5 have Roam from position and the IWs have Get Further Forward. I'm playing Southampton first season and they don't have a great squad for this style of play but the addition of Ajer who is a very complete player and a great pivot, Almada and Vanheusden will help the team a lot,

My early results (Match against City was a surprise for me):

DowCRD4.png

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Akranion said:

Thank you for this post, this is my favourite style of play. I want to share how I translated to FM20.

 

q6mb2h2.png

 

All players on positive, besides F9 who is balanced. All the front 5 have Roam from position and the IWs have Get Further Forward. I'm playing Southampton first season and they don't have a great squad for this style of play but the addition of Ajer who is a very complete player and a great pivot, Almada and Vanheusden will help the team a lot,

My early results (Match against City was a surprise for me):

DowCRD4.png

Unsure how much it matters but I believe the keeper will have a very attacking mentality is this particular set up which could be costly playing a higher line or with a keeper who has sub par reactions. 
 

Are your inverted wingers scoring many goals? 

Edited by Pattric_b
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For those interested, on FM20 an IF with Support duty but "Very Attacking" individual mentality doesn't have a problem defending even on Attacking Team Mentality. 

5 minutes ago, coach vahid said:

Its funny cause, most of the time,  what we try to do is to replicate real managers tactic.

Now we try to replicate @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! tactic...WTF 😀

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! tactic is based on real life managers and tactics, specifically Total Football. Most of the recent threads are about possession and Total Football - Michels, Cruyff, Pep tactics. 

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21 minutes ago, coach vahid said:

Its funny cause, most of the time,  what we try to do is to replicate real managers tactic.

Now we try to replicate @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! tactic...WTF 😀

Maybe he is a real manager. :brock:

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Posted (edited)

First of all, massive thank you to @JDeeguain for telling me about this. Enjoy!


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jMLfEQh.png


77Uf0kQ.png


 

1d83d8bfc9d17efcdb601f6f0cfb1bf6.gif


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Somehow Jota doesn't even get mentioned in the match report. Hopefully this shows what a phenomenal creative force he is and also the advantage of having a two-footed winger. 

Edited by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!
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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, MadOnion said:

Resolution is fine. Change units to "per cent" and update the width to 50% (if it's too small, you can try something bigger). I always have to resize my images before posting them on here. 

 559077701_Screenshot2020-05-27at15_59_43.thumb.png.43b6117bfd076587999c54c7189e9167.png


Looks like I still haven't quite got this right :lol::lol:

Edit: got it :cool:

Edited by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!
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19 hours ago, Akranion said:

Thank you for this post, this is my favourite style of play. I want to share how I translated to FM20.

 

q6mb2h2.png

 

All players on positive, besides F9 who is balanced. All the front 5 have Roam from position and the IWs have Get Further Forward. I'm playing Southampton first season and they don't have a great squad for this style of play but the addition of Ajer who is a very complete player and a great pivot, Almada and Vanheusden will help the team a lot,

My early results (Match against City was a surprise for me):

DowCRD4.png

Hello @Akranion

Can you post more results? I´ll try to replicate this aswell with Ajax team. Have you tested all options for the SC position? Maybe for Ajax I can go with a Strikerless option, but I will test first.

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I have created a very fluid possession based system in FM20 but in 4411 formation as it suits my players better. Below is the tactic.

345601700_Fluid4411.thumb.png.4c295f9e3fb4505a2b756e176b128bd1.png

I have deliberately positioned my wingers/ wide forwards at ML/MR position rather than AML/AMR. This is so that those players are more involved in the build-up play and also prevents the ball being moved to switch to flanks too early where they lack enough support.

As part of total football I still press high but not counterpress. Instead, forwards and wingers along with wingbacks compress space and my midfield is mainly positioned to stay close to opposition midfielders.

I have customized IW(S) on both flanks  so that one acts as a creator primarily while the other is scorer/creator.

The two roles I am not entirely sure are the MCL which is the DLP(D) and the AM(S).

Any suggestions on how those two roles can be set-up in this system will be really appreciated. Also please critic the overall tactic too.

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