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couragewolf101

Youth Intake Preview Text - Can't seem to get above good group of players

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Managing Athletic Bilbao, 2nd season in- the youth intake preview text keeps telling me that this is a poor crop of youth players or mediocre or not a very good, and only rarely, do I get good, but never excellent nor terrific / golden generation

I've been save-loading over at least a thousand times, and could generate 'good' at only maybe four times at most. Surely by sheer sample size, I should get occasionally get an excellent or a terrific- and accounting for real life, English clubs are chunking out generations of top tier talent (though not so much for Germany or Spain.

Does the text account for the quality of your team when the youth intake email assessment, or this is just a bug?

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I could be wrong but thought that I’d read that in FM20 the new youth players are fixed sometime before the date that they are generated and the only effect that save - loading has is to ramdomise their personalities.

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38 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

I could be wrong but thought that I’d read that in FM20 the new youth players are fixed sometime before the date that they are generated and the only effect that save - loading has is to ramdomise their personalities.

I'm talking about the youth intake preview email you get, not the actual intake day itself.

The prior season before, i could somehow be able to nail excellent, and terrific at most 5 times over a 1000 reloads. The intake ended up having a 179, 177, 176, 166, 159 PA players amongst the very best of that crop, along with a 131, 124, 119 to fill my B team in the future. 

But this season, it's a struggle to get even good, let alone excellent or terrific. Idk if this has to do with custom database, or in relation to the quality of my team.

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5 minutes ago, couragewolf101 said:

I'm talking about the youth intake preview email you get, not the actual intake day itself.

The prior season before, i could somehow be able to nail excellent, and terrific at most 5 times over a 1000 reloads. The intake ended up having a 179, 177, 176, 166, 159 PA players amongst the very best of that crop, along with a 131, 124, 119 to fill my B team in the future. 

But this season, it's a struggle to get even good, let alone excellent or terrific. Idk if this has to do with custom database, or in relation to the quality of my team.

160 PA is already a solid future first team player in any team. What is the average of PA you got for your best player in the intake?

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

160 PA is already a solid future first team player in any team. What is the average of PA you got for your best player in the intake?

on a 5 player average, that number was about 171.4, on a 10 player average, about 145.7 iirc.

Secondly i am confused whether the good / optimistic / excellent / terrific line of text matters at all
 

Edited by couragewolf101

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I also reckon the text you get in December (in England) is almost completely pointless. The actual youth intake in March doesn't reflect it much at all.

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2 hours ago, Norfair said:

I also reckon the text you get in December (in England) is almost completely pointless. The actual youth intake in March doesn't reflect it much at all.

the text is very often more accurate than not. sometimes it is just people having too high of expectations and reading too much into star ratings. for example, when they say you are going to get a good winger you will get a good winger but that good winger might be rated 3 stars as everyone else when in fact he has the highest PA of your intake. you can reload a hundred times on your youth intake day and you will still get that good winger just his PA and personality will fluctuate.

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3 hours ago, couragewolf101 said:

on a 5 player average, that number was about 171.4, on a 10 player average, about 145.7 iirc.

Secondly i am confused whether the good / optimistic / excellent / terrific line of text matters at all
 

if u want to know exactly the quality of players you will have to use the in game editor to look at the PA. star ratings can deceive. 

For reference:

above 150 PA: first team player for most teams

above 160 PA: solid first team player for any team

above 170 PA: star or leading player for any team. some people say that it is a benchmark required for newgens to compete for individual awards such as Ballon D Or

above 180 PA: potential club legend

above 190 PA: once in a lifetime talent

 

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I mostly agree with zyfon5, but I'd add the following

130-140 - could play at Premier League level (with a good attribute spread)

140-150 - good squad player for Premier League level

150-160 - good squad player for the top 5/6 teams in the Premier League

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Im in 2045 and so far I've had 2 'Golden Generations' (both at Malmo). In 15 years at Hemel, I got nothing. In fact, I don't think a youth team player ever made a 1st team appearance for me...

At Bayern, I've had 1 'Best player of his generation' and 1 "Best player produced by the club for some time"

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IMO if you are in a big football country like england Spain France Italy. You are competing with other big clubs for top young players coming through. It’s only natural that you may only get 1 or 2 potential first teams. 
 

it’s very rare irl that you have multiple come through at once even if you have amazing facilities. 

even the best clubs poach youngster from other clubs because there’s aren’t up to standard. 
 

I think we expect too much from youth intake and if we get a superstar once every five years that’s pretty accurate. Obviously if your super lucky and get multiple at one or a golden generation then be please with that. 

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Ask yourself "How often does a golden generation evolve for a club" ? 

That should answer your question ;)

 

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4 hours ago, couragewolf101 said:

Currently it just seems to have trouble generating anything above "a good group of players".

Who was the last team to produce anything near a good group of players? Getting more than one group like that could be classed as unrealistic 

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1 hour ago, cris182 said:

Who was the last team to produce anything near a good group of players? Getting more than one group like that could be classed as unrealistic 

I suppose Chelsea- if you just count CHO, James, Anjorin and Abraham (Tomori and Gilmour are excluded as they came through other clubs)

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If you are really reloading 1000 times per season, just skip the act and straight add the 180+ PA players you want instead. FM becomes a pointless game if you're trying to brute force certain outcomes. 

You can have a poor intake with a 200 PA player btw.

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7 hours ago, couragewolf101 said:

I suppose Chelsea- if you just count CHO, James, Anjorin and Abraham (Tomori and Gilmour are excluded as they came through other clubs)

The players you mention were born in 1997, 1999, 2000 and 2001.They wouldn't have come through in the same youth intake. In fact, those could be the best 4 players Chelsea have gotten during their last 5 intakes. You had a similar group in 1 intake. Can you see how wildly unrealistic it is that you even got it once?

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2 hours ago, Nacaw said:

In fact, those could be the best 4 players Chelsea have gotten during their last 5 intake.

Last 20 years if you exclude John Terry who is our last known notable homegrown talent. There are also Bertrand, Ake, Sturridge and chalobah who are still playing at premier league level. And the fact the difficulties that Chelsea faced to promote homegrown players to the first team up until this season despite having one of the best youth teams in Europe in recent years already showed how rare it is that you have a homegrown player that can break into the first team especially for a top side.

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I'm more talking about the preview email that i get in December. In prior patches, I would reasonably get lots of excellents and terrific generation. But ever since 20.4, these are much harder to come by.

My hunch is that is the head of youth development trying to compare the intake with the team that it is walking into, and therefore downgrade his assessment as either 'mediocre' or 'not great' even though there are objectively really good players in that intake?

Attached: also someone else finding the same thing with Juventus.
 

 

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20 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

For reference:

above 150 PA: first team player for most teams

above 160 PA: solid first team player for any team

above 170 PA: star or leading player for any team. some people say that it is a benchmark required for newgens to compete for individual awards such as Ballon D Or

above 180 PA: potential club legend

above 190 PA: once in a lifetime talent

 

I used to look at it this way but I remember for example in my save on FM18 Locatelli was about 155 and described as a worldclass midfielder in the game . So for me it is much more simple now. I would say anything above 150 or even 140 is good. But I don't check PA until I finish the save anyway.

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29 minutes ago, couragewolf101 said:


mind you these guys have logged it as a bug too.

in this situation the scenario is different though. OP has the tools to look into the PA of the youth players and people has listed out what is the level of players regarding to their PA. Since every save game is different, I will encourage people that are facing the issue to do what OP has done and decide whether it fits a realistic expectation of a youth intake. Just because someone else logged it as a bug doesnt mean that it will affect every player.

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2 hours ago, yolixeya said:

I used to look at it this way but I remember for example in my save on FM18 Locatelli was about 155 and described as a worldclass midfielder in the game . So for me it is much more simple now. I would say anything above 150 or even 140 is good. But I don't check PA until I finish the save anyway.

if im not mistaken the in game description of 'world class midfielder' is not dependent on current CA. the PA i have listed are just a reference anyway. If you have a player with a good spread of key attributes he will outperform another player with attributes that are more evenly spread even though his CA is lower. Attributes is the most important thing in FM and everything else is secondary.

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6 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

if im not mistaken the in game description of 'world class midfielder' is not dependent on current CA. the PA i have listed are just a reference anyway. If you have a player with a good spread of key attributes he will outperform another player with attributes that are more evenly spread even though his CA is lower. Attributes is the most important thing in FM and everything else is secondary.

I agree. I just think people get too obsessed with PA and CA. Locatelli in that save was in the first team of Barcelona and described as world class midfielder but most people when they would see a 155 PA player in their youth intake wouldn't consider it good because they want somenone in the  180-200 range.

I don't know what influences in game description but I guess CA plays a part as well as reputation.

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1 minute ago, yolixeya said:

I agree. I just think people get too obsessed with PA and CA. Locatelli in that save was in the first team of Barcelona and described as world class midfielder but most people when they would see a 155 PA player in their youth intake wouldn't consider it good because they want somenone in the  180-200 range.

I don't know what influences in game description but I guess CA plays a part as well as reputation.

totally agreed with the points above. player personality and hidden attributes are also equally important. no use having a player with 200 CA if he is complaining all the time or is injured most of the time.

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