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What to do with this guy?  

25 members have voted

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  1. 1. If he was your player, what position would you train him in?

    • Fullback
      1
    • Defensive Midfielder
      4
    • Ball Winning Midfielder
      1
    • Box to Box Midfielder
      9
    • Central Midfielder
      8
    • Attacking Midfielder
      0
    • Wide Target Man
      0
    • Target Man
      0
    • Pressing Forward
      0
    • Something Else
      2

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  • Poll closed on 30/05/20 at 23:00

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Posted (edited)

20200523052015_1.thumb.jpg.7815237be888591dfadaa7970fdf1a3a.jpg

I signed him about 18 months or so ago but he couldn't play for us until he turned 18 as he wasn't born in the UK.
Instead he came on trial for a year first and when a player is on trial, you have no say over how or what he trains, he just trains in his natural position.
He trained really well, far better than I expected. He turned 18 in the summer and has continued to improve at such a rapid rate that he is now close to my first team.

18-month progression
20200523053555_1.thumb.jpg.98d87f8cb4aa0476d8e1154b56f39a55.jpg

The problem is I'm not sure what to do with him. I originally had him down as a CM with Attack duty as I needed one but I'm not convinced any more.
The game seems to think he is ideally suited to being a BBM but he can't dribble or shoot going forward and he can't tackle going back.
That rules out most central options and his vision is also poor so he's not suited to being any kind of playmaker either and it looks like he'll need to be trained in another position.
Maybe to make use of his teamwork and work rate he could be a fullback on support duty but turning him into a defender of any description looks like a little too much work as tackling and positioning are poor. 
20200523055734_1.thumb.jpg.81d9839aba072793e3ea3d98b04c7b25.jpg

A pressing forward? On support duty seems best but he lacks pace.
20200523060507_1.thumb.jpg.ea444e427f6c67a0034aa432ec353a1e.jpg20200523060525_1.thumb.jpg.fdc8ac432d975db53ca2271aaf1112e0.jpg20200523060537_1.thumb.jpg.033a8fa630f3afbc5d7b3411aa1bfaf4.jpg

I'm also thinking of a Wide Target Man or maybe a TM up front but I don't really use either in my tactics.
20200523054554_1.thumb.jpg.4f82c7e68becfc56cff8fe7bfbaf1ed1.jpg20200523054921_1.thumb.jpg.dec8cec49b473ef3bab240dc4d666bc5.jpg

I guess I'm leaning towards a PF(S) but just wanted other opinions, maybe even something I've not thought of.
So what would you do with him if he was your player?
Thanks

Edited by Earnie is God!

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Posted (edited)

I would train him as a DLP with an eye to using him as a CM(S). Right now he is not really good at anything, he doesnt really have the pace or acceleration to trouble defenders, poor posistioning means he is unlikely to make a good defender. However, giving him a broad brush training package to bring up as many of his other attributes as possible you could easily make a nice rounded central midfielder out of him. Training him as a DLP(D) will bring up lots of the stats he is short in such as posistioning, vision and composure. You can give him an additional focus on tackling, he shouldnt complain as he is fairly proffesional and hard working. You can switch between a DLP(D) and (S) to maximise the stats you work on, as the (S) will work on long shots and off the ball too. Before you know it you have a pretty well rounded central midfielder. I reckon by 21 he will be where you need him to be.

Editing to add - with PPMs you could encourage long shots or gets further forward to add a goal scoring threat from deep. He already has a decent long shot it could improve more and he would be a real threat.

Edited by Garrlor

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Posted (edited)

My bias to one of my favourite role is showing here :)

CM(s), with "Dictates Tempo" PPM, "Hold Position" PI and maybe "Take more risks". Reasons being that this player has more than enough Balance and Teamwork (and fair enough mentals given his age) to be a central focus. He has a good passing game but low vision, meaning that he will not see many high risk-chances but the pass routes he sees will be high precision. His physicals and mentals are well enough developed to press and be pressed. He's also a danger from deep when he (finally) makes it to the front.

Train at least one (preferably both) movement attributes (positioning and off the ball) and then loan him out to the NFL for some tackling skills focus on his tackling. His mentals will probably grow well enough from experience alone and with these skills covered he's pretty much a well-rounded player who can dominate the middle of the pitch. A bit slow maybe but at young ages speed can increase quite a bit through training alone and (pseudo)-playmakers with little movement with the ball don't need them that much.

/edit: once he's developed enough I'd probably cross-train him as DLPd in the DM-strata as he's perfectly capable of dictating the game from deep in "slower" (i.e. much movement, short passing range) games where he's a constant security check for whenever the deep runners are stuck or the central midfielders need to switch flanks and rebuild the game.

I'd do the waiting to better round his attributes first and because I think low-vision DLP are almost too specialised -- this guy needs to develop alternative paths first!

Edited by Piperita

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@Garrlor@PiperitaThanks both for your input, some interesting ideas there. He's obviously still young enough to mould into just about anything but I didn't want to go down one route and then decide on something else later on.
Will wait and see what others say before finalising my decision but will probably stick him on defensive positioning focus for the time being.
Cheers

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19 hours ago, Earnie is God! said:

@Garrlor@PiperitaThanks both for your input, some interesting ideas there. He's obviously still young enough to mould into just about anything but I didn't want to go down one route and then decide on something else later on.
Will wait and see what others say before finalising my decision but will probably stick him on defensive positioning focus for the time being.
Cheers

Reminds me of Andy Irving with Hearts. Very difficult to find a place for him but still promising. Both postings help me with him.

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Posted (edited)

@HanziZoloman thanks

Only a month has passed in-game and he's still improving. Looking at the 10 votes, 8 have said a CM of some description, with BBM the favourite so far.
We'll see how he develops

Edited by Earnie is God!

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35 minutes ago, Earnie is God! said:

@HanziZoloman thanks

Only a month has passed in-game and he's still improving. Looking at the 10 votes, 8 have said a CM of some description, with BBM the favourite so far.
We'll see how he develops

On FM20 do you have the option to train him as a specific type of player? If I had him on FM18 I would give him and individual training role as a DLP without a shadow of a doubt. He already has many of the abilities of a RPM so I dont need to focus too much, just bring up his other stats that need a llittle work rounding out. He would then be an awesome CM(S) that you could use in a similar role to one of Guardiolas free 8's.

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Posted (edited)

Yes, I can train him in a specific role if I wanted to but there has been a lot of work done in the past couple of months that suggests training a player just in his position (i.e. not a specific role) can work out better.
Info on that can be found here and it makes for very interesting reading.
https://www.fmscout.com/a-fm20-development-guide-and-training-schedules.html

He currently lacks the vision and composure to be a playmaker as well as the pace/acceleration to roam.

20200525022712_1.thumb.jpg.681d0bca284db80064fa7726e1d38849.jpg20200525022723_1.thumb.jpg.a12bfe3683e348ae9351ba37a888de40.jpg

This is what he looks like as a CM(S), needs to improve his tackling

20200525022806_1.thumb.jpg.b12d2ba2eb42797e1b2dcf8ef05b74c9.jpg

Edited by Earnie is God!

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4 hours ago, Earnie is God! said:

Yes, I can train him in a specific role if I wanted to but there has been a lot of work done in the past couple of months that suggests training a player just in his position (i.e. not a specific role) can work out better.
Info on that can be found here and it makes for very interesting reading.
https://www.fmscout.com/a-fm20-development-guide-and-training-schedules.html

He currently lacks the vision and composure to be a playmaker as well as the pace/acceleration to roam.

We know this training idea it has been discussed here with much controversy. I personally tried it too but with mixed success. But this player is made for trying. I would develop the pace and quickness first as physical attributes are more important.

Please tell us more about his development. I give it a new try with Andy Irving :)

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1 hour ago, Jean0987654321 said:

I'd rather you improve his pace. He is slow as a rock!!

Maybe he started off as slow as a rock (6 Acc and 5 Pace) but now he's not not so bad, has 10 of each and still improving.

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11 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

Please tell us more about his development. I give it a new try with Andy Irving :)

Two months since last update and about a dozen attributes have gone up another point :)

20200525073118_1.thumb.jpg.4ba5c912ac7fa6ade5a8a9274c83a4f7.jpg

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This guy is quite unique! Can't be a central defender or anchor man, because while he can jump, he can't tackle. He can't be a fullback because he lacks pace and tackling.

While I think he could be an AP/S, I don't think that uses his stamina at all and unless you have a tactic that is amazing at creating space for your forwards, he might lack the vision to pick them out. I see one of two options for him:

He could be a DLP in the CM position as long as there's another midfielder covering defensively. He has Decisions, Passing and fantastic Balance, so should be very dependable in circulating possession.

Another option (and the one I'd go for, I think) is using him as a CM/S again paired with a more defensive midfield cover. He won't be 'used' as a playmaker and you can use a more creative playmaker further forward. He'd be recycling possession, picking out more advanced players in good position and also chipping in with the occasional long range effort. I think a BBM would be too far forward and though he has the Stamina, his Pace may be an issue. While that's how I'd use him, I would also start focusing on the more defensive side of his game. He's physically imposing and he's brave, but lacking in tackling.

That said, a lot depends on the players you have already and the tactical setup.

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5 hours ago, Earnie is God! said:

Yes, I can train him in a specific role if I wanted to but there has been a lot of work done in the past couple of months that suggests training a player just in his position (i.e. not a specific role) can work out better.
Info on that can be found here and it makes for very interesting reading.
https://www.fmscout.com/a-fm20-development-guide-and-training-schedules.html

He currently lacks the vision and composure to be a playmaker as well as the pace/acceleration to roam.

20200525022712_1.thumb.jpg.681d0bca284db80064fa7726e1d38849.jpg20200525022723_1.thumb.jpg.a12bfe3683e348ae9351ba37a888de40.jpg

This is what he looks like as a CM(S), needs to improve his tackling

20200525022806_1.thumb.jpg.b12d2ba2eb42797e1b2dcf8ef05b74c9.jpg

Morning mate.

The reason I was suggesting training him as a DLP is that it would target those specific abilities it uses, alongside an extra focus on tackling to bring that up. That was the point, it was targetted training designed to work on an area that he was weak rather than actually training him to be a DLP. I think that lack of vision would hinder him whereas a CM(S) with some increases in his other attributes he would be a fantastic all round player. Training as a DLP would not stop rises in other areas of his game improving naturally either.

Training somone just in thier posistion has always worked. If you don't put players on any sort of training routine and leave everything to default they will train a little bit of everything and improve in everything. It's not new, people have developed youngsters throughout the ages of FM without ever messing with training at all. This can be both a good and a bad thing. If you have a player is already strong in some areas then training him in everything makes his strong areas stronger but his weak areas dont develop as much. Giving him a focus to improve his weak areas will see him become a more complete player rather than a one trick pony. This is especially important at levels where every attribute point counts such as League 1 and 2. You may occasionaly want specialists (DC, Winger, Poacher) as they don't need a huge spread of attributes to do thier jobs well and being a specialised and strong at your game is a good thing. But players like a CM can really benefit from being really well rounded as they are asked to do a bit of everything all the time in a game regardless of the role you want them to play.

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On 23/05/2020 at 10:18, Garrlor said:

I would train him as a DLP with an eye to using him as a CM(S). Right now he is not really good at anything, he doesn't really have the pace or acceleration to trouble defenders, poor positioning means he is unlikely to make a good defender. However, giving him a broad brush training package to bring up as many of his other attributes as possible you could easily make a nice rounded central midfielder out of him. Training him as a DLP(D) will bring up lots of the stats he is short in such as positioning, vision and composure. You can give him an additional focus on tackling, he shouldn't complain as he is fairly professional and hard working. You can switch between a DLP(D) and (S) to maximise the stats you work on, as the (S) will work on long shots and off the ball too. Before you know it you have a pretty well rounded central midfielder. I reckon by 21 he will be where you need him to be.

Editing to add - with PPMs you could encourage long shots or gets further forward to add a goal scoring threat from deep. He already has a decent long shot it could improve more and he would be a real threat.

He's now being trained as a DLP(d) as suggested but how would I be able to give him an additional focus on tackling? It's not an option to train directly or have I missed it somewhere? Additional for the time being is on his quickness. 10/10 is far better than what it was but still needs work.

20200525131126_1.thumb.jpg.e6a67e8c4140582eefff90ba232f5bcf.jpg

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13 minutes ago, Earnie is God! said:

He's now being trained as a DLP(d) as suggested but how would I be able to give him an additional focus on tackling? It's not an option to train directly or have I missed it somewhere? Additional for the time being is on his quickness. 10/10 is far better than what it was but still needs work.

20200525131126_1.thumb.jpg.e6a67e8c4140582eefff90ba232f5bcf.jpg

Ah, I'm still on FM18 where that is an option. DLP D should work well, after 6 months maybe try some time as a DLP S to vary it up a little. However if your coaches are accurate you maybe at close to his full potential now limiting his gains. Still a great player mind you!

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Since switching him to train as a DLP(d), quite a few of his technicals have dropped but I know players do have ups and downs so will wait a bit longer to see if he picks up again. If not, I'll switch him back to train as a basic CM.

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18 minutes ago, Earnie is God! said:

Since switching him to train as a DLP(d), quite a few of his technicals have dropped but I know players do have ups and downs so will wait a bit longer to see if he picks up again. If not, I'll switch him back to train as a basic CM.

Fair enough. It might be that he is at his PA, which means that changes in one area have to come at the expense of something else.

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Could be but my coaches think there's more potential there. Will soon find out I guess as he's now first choice and if he is going to kick on more then this is the time.

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Currently a close call in teh voting between a BBM and CM, with DM voted 3rd best. Still a few days for people to have their say.
Southampton have tried to steal Anocic away form me but I kicked them in the nuts and thankfully the young lad hasn't cried about it.
He's not been in the best of form recently, playing as a CM(s), but we've been promoted to the Championship so it's a much tougher time for us in general.

I'll post an update when we are halfway through the season, probably in the next couple of days

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Nice1! 
and you gave up this training which you suggested first? The one with player roles and individual and double intensity?

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Looking at comparisons to his first image, you have seen some really good gains in his weak areas.

Vision up by 3 points from 6 to 9. If you can get it to 10 or 11 I would call that a huge win. His composure has also gone up, along with his first touch. Posistioning also up by 3 points to 11, again now looking like a much more well rounded midfielder with the increase to his decision making (another 2 points!). Looking it the spread graph, his defending has come on leaps and bounds, good work with this one mate.

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9 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Nice1! 
and you gave up this training which you suggested first? The one with player roles and individual and double intensity?

His attributes started going up again so didn't switch it back. Most of my other players are on player position instead of specific role. I think I will keep them on that, especially the youngsters until I have a specific place for them in the first team.

@Garrlor yes, in under a year since the first pic I posted, he's come on a lot. Very nice to see.

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Poll now closed and it was a close call between BBM and CM, 9 votes to 8.
I'm going to use him as a CM(s) mainly.
I'll post a screenshot shortly.

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20200531154257_1.thumb.jpg.99c1c358435f245544cc896b21286c5b.jpg20200531154521_1.thumb.jpg.8d236e44e94030330cc89f01c5767c95.jpg

I might switch his training to a Carrilero, his tackling still needs work. Good idea?

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Hmm, he might be getting close to his potential now. Your coaches still arent sure mind you, but he must be close if you arent seeing a lot of changes with more game time. Perhaps wait until pre season and then give him some high intensity work as either a BWM or a CAR to see if you can get his tackling up without costing too many hard earned points elsewhere.

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He's been in and out of the side recently

20200531185320_1.thumb.jpg.3d04d1d0810791f0ee795a81e9c9766c.jpg

Improvements for the past 6 months and last month not been that much so yes, probably close to max now, even though coaches think there's more to come

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I have a decision to make over the summer for him. The thing is, he'd not been playing that great as a CM(s) and my change of formation/tactic meant he's had to play as a BBM or BWM in recent games.
We finished the season unbeaten in nine games, our longest run of the campaign by far, so he's going to have to learn how to tackle to stay in the team :)

I chose CAR over BWM because it doesn't neglect vision. We'll see what happens.
As always, thanks for the help.

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No worries mate! Sometimes a player just doesnt fit your tactical vision no matter what you try with them. The thing is, he is rated as one of the best midfielders in your squad so its going to be tough as you have just been promoted too. Maybe you will get lucky and he will have another growth spurt, perhaps a loan down a division would help him out - getting regular football where he can get good ratings on a consistant basis. That way you take the risk out of your hands and just see if natural growth will help round him out that little bit more.

If the worst comes to the worst a PL club will probably take a punt on him thinking he has tons of potential left.

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He'll fit in. We have another midfielder (below) who is moving on this summer. Boro bought him off us last year but I insisted on the deal not going through for 12 months.
So there's definitely more scope for Anocic to play more and I think the only way he's leaving is if my board overrules me and accepts a big offer; thankfully, I've only had to reject one offer so far but it's almost summer time and I expect a lot more interest.

20200531214530_1.thumb.jpg.c466bc82af483df2ade6a27616fab71b.jpg

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