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SixPointer

Gian Piero Gasperini at Atalanta Case Study

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This was pure joy to read! Excellent work, looking forward following this.

You have given the  AMC (S) a lot of PIs but regarding the"close down more" - I cant seem to get the AMC S to close down more, the bar is full. Or have I misunderstood something?

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Great Works.

In my opinion there are two things missing that are basic features of Gasperini style. I think they are impossible to replicate here.

1. CB forward movement. As you can see in your picture when you describe the attacking the box on right side, there is a lot of space between the 3 CB and the other players. One of the, probably the left Cb, should be at least 15-20 meters forward. And also during build up is not rare that Toloi will move up to opposite area.

2. Roaming. Another aspect difficult to improve here. During the match there are a continuous roaming between the player in the side chain. For example the build up start with Hateboer wide, De Roon (or Pasalic) that link with defense, Ilicic wide forward. Suddendly Ilicic drop, Pasalic move wide and Hateboer goes forward....than Ilicic move wide, Hateboer come back and Pasalic goes bombing in the space.....I don't know really how to implement this in FM terms.

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3 hours ago, Mutumba said:

This was pure joy to read! Excellent work, looking forward following this.

You have given the  AMC (S) a lot of PIs but regarding the"close down more" - I cant seem to get the AMC S to close down more, the bar is full. Or have I misunderstood something?

It’s a tough one. If my the opposition have a great number 6 I was man markings them. But it then restricted gomez in a sense. It’s very hard in fm to recreate Gómez’s initial press. But really as long as he breaks the central area and takes the 6 just behind the forwards am happy. As that is his main job. Although he does press high he doesn’t follow the pivot say all the way. Am sure it covered in one of my resource link the defensive principles one possibly. 
 

thanks very much am glad you enjoy reading the first post. 

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2 hours ago, Ivan787 said:

1. CB forward movement. As you can see in your picture when you describe the attacking the box on right side, there is a lot of space between the 3 CB and the other players. One of the, probably the left Cb, should be at least 15-20 meters forward. And also during build up is not rare that Toloi will move up to opposite area.

2. Roaming. Another aspect difficult to improve here. During the match there are a continuous roaming between the player in the side chain. For example the build up start with Hateboer wide, De Roon (or Pasalic) that link with defense, Ilicic wide forward. Suddendly Ilicic drop, Pasalic move wide and Hateboer goes forward....than Ilicic move wide, Hateboer come back and Pasalic goes bombing in the space.....I don't know really how to implement this in FM terms.

1. These two examples i used to attack the box was just to set the tone of the wide play. It was more to show the wingbacks and forward as we hit the box. Tolói more so than palomino definitely bombs forward. I have some good examples of the RCB and LCB acting similar to fullback. Unfortunately in fm I again it’s her hard to recreate it in its purest form. I’ve only really scratched the surface in terms of analysis as I felt I was going on a-bit so there will be more clips rather than over view shots next that hopefully sees some of this higher CB movement.

 

2 similar to one but it’s more or less impossible to recreate there rotations   But i intend to cover it in my next post. So people can see how they do it in real life. But It’s very complex movement to get in the ME

7 hours ago, SixPointer said:

Rotations of positions in particular CB's WB's And CM's (this has proved very difficult but have made its happen on occasions)

I mentioned it when talking before. if someone knows how to make it happen I would be over the moon to here as as I tried so much to the point of getting the to swap position in game buts that’s no how I see it working  it’s more a unique trigger than just then swapping position 

thanks for your in put exactly what I wanted to create by no means is it perfect Atlanta yet  am still on that journey 

 

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2 hours ago, davidbarros2 said:

One of the best threads and OP I've seen in a long time.

Looking forward for the next updates!

Thanks very much mate a lot of work but really enjoyed it. Hopefully have another update Sunday. 
 

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

Top-notch read! Very detailed and well-tought out :applause:

thanks very much mate. You can take some credit as reading your stuff give me a lot of inspiration 

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Liked what you wrote, but as I wrote in a previous thread, I would use the Ilicic as a trquartista and the Zapata as complete forward on supoort :)

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46 minutes ago, josel15 said:

Liked what you wrote, but as I wrote in a previous thread, I would use the Ilicic as a trquartista and the Zapata as complete forward on supoort :)

yes the front two is definitely up for debate. And I totally agree Zapata has everything he’s big strong quick can dribble as well. Complete forward was my go to for him  but didn’t Have anyone capable enough to play the role. Ilicic gave me a lot more pain but towards the end he got a hatrick and the new boy playing his role had 4 goals and 4 assists in 7 games so se what happens. 

Definitely an option and one I would definitely explore. 

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18 hours ago, SixPointer said:

yes the front two is definitely up for debate. And I totally agree Zapata has everything he’s big strong quick can dribble as well. Complete forward was my go to for him  but didn’t Have anyone capable enough to play the role. Ilicic gave me a lot more pain but towards the end he got a hatrick and the new boy playing his role had 4 goals and 4 assists in 7 games so se what happens. 

Definitely an option and one I would definitely explore. 

Of course, and a tactic recreation can't be really done excpet with the appropiate/same team. It must be hard to find a Ilicic or a Zapata in the argentinian league, so sometimes giving them a generic role and apply the same principles is the best one person can do! :)

 

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5 hours ago, josel15 said:

Of course, and a tactic recreation can't be really done excpet with the appropiate/same team. It must be hard to find a Ilicic or a Zapata in the argentinian league, so sometimes giving them a generic role and apply the same principles is the best one person can do! :)

 

Well that is true. It’s more of a journey as well I’ve set out to play as them studied it and set about making it happen. Maybe 3/4 transfer window we will be there. Will have another update tomorrow as well which will reveal a lot more stuff that’s went on up to this point. The players playing the roles will be part of that so will give you a good idea of who am using as who. 

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Awesome thread, great work :applause:

I'm particularly interested in your 'magic' AMC role. I've really struggled to get use an AMC effectively, as have a lot of other people this year. I've tried very similar ideas to you (eg, a 'simple' AM-S  with lots of PIs) but found he rarely gets involved in the build up, mainly just passing out wide or backwards :seagull: Any ideas on what makes this role work well in your system? 

Attacking mentality (not something I've tried yet)?
Other central midfielders tending to move into wide areas to create space?

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I know this doesnt really help you much in your strive towards emulating Atalanta, but I did some testing...

I swapped DLF for TQ, and changed poacher to Complete forward S - and the did a holiday test with Fulham, Leipzig, Atalanta, Ajax, Barcelona and swedish side Hammarby. The results were quite amazing.  Barcelona scored 22 goals, conceded 1 in 7 games. Hammarby undefeated bar one game. Fulham also only lost one game against Bournemouth in the cup. Overall in total I only think I lost two games between all these teams. Mostly wins, one or two draws. 

Just a little FYI.

 

Have you identified which player attributes in FM are important for this tactic to fully work? Sureley something like "off the ball"movement should be a given, right?

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10 hours ago, Manutd1999 said:

Awesome thread, great work :applause:

I'm particularly interested in your 'magic' AMC role. I've really struggled to get use an AMC effectively, as have a lot of other people this year. I've tried very similar ideas to you (eg, a 'simple' AM-S  with lots of PIs) but found he rarely gets involved in the build up, mainly just passing out wide or backwards :seagull: Any ideas on what makes this role work well in your system? 

Attacking mentality (not something I've tried yet)?
Other central midfielders tending to move into wide areas to create space?

Tbh this is my first time getting a pure ten working how I want it. I played as Banik Ostrava when FM First came out. Player there Robert hruby he’s an ozil Type tried to get him playing in the ten. Never worked from 8 was a absolutely phenomenal but there I played with two wide players in the am strata. Which to me kills his space to weave his magic. Where as here I’m playing with wing backs. And two midfielders that are trying to play in half spaces along with forwards. The ten has the whole middle to himself. Or at least that’s the aim he also has two striker moving in front two supply.  Like gomez in real life. Getting a pure ten has been very difficult to get recently as it’s a dying breed. Due to the fact most teams now use a anchor man against them so playmakers are now much more of the deeper variety in the 6 position. Coupled with the fact most teams try to press high now. The 10 a luxury player is gone in a sense. Am glad the game replicates how difficult that is. Here for me he’s definitely the most talented player at the club which obviously helps. He has all the big teams chasing him so in Argentina he is going to be a star. Tomorrow we will a update with stats and squad stuff hopefully that well help 

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4 hours ago, Mutumba said:

I know this doesnt really help you much in your strive towards emulating Atalanta, but I did some testing...

I swapped DLF for TQ, and changed poacher to Complete forward S - and the did a holiday test with Fulham, Leipzig, Atalanta, Ajax, Barcelona and swedish side Hammarby. The results were quite amazing.  Barcelona scored 22 goals, conceded 1 in 7 games. Hammarby undefeated bar one game. Fulham also only lost one game against Bournemouth in the cup. Overall in total I only think I lost two games between all these teams. Mostly wins, one or two draws. 

Just a little FYI.

 

Have you identified which player attributes in FM are important for this tactic to fully work? Sureley something like "off the ball"movement should be a given, right?

You could well be right. Tbh I never holiday games. It’s probably why it takes me so long to get through my seasons. Even over on my career updates stuff. I love reacting to what am seeing in front of me. 
 

but onto your point when I done my analysis of Atalanta some 4 weeks ago. The front 3 was always going to be tricky. Gomez I feel I have as good as I can get. With more progression in the save he will become that role. zapata role is a compete forward. In my notes I took down I wrote complete. Cause he does a bit of everything and has the full package. There a video I’ll attach later which made me decide this. He is 100% complete forward. As he a target man poacher deep lying toward advanced forward rolled into one. I don’t have someone capable of that role of similar mould yet. That’s why i refer to journey. Am not Atalanta so I can’t just use there players. Ilicic role is a whole other problem. In my studies before I stated trials. I had Af,dlf,IF,treq and SS and had a go with all. And with my players available I had most success in his movement and play as DLF. 

You said you holiday. That proves you won did you check to see the games if it was illic type play cause I’ve now seen most think he’s treq so could well give it an extended trial if you’ve seen that in all the seasons. 
 

in terms of key attributes off the ball is key cause of there rotations. But for me a lean more to the elements of work rate and team work. There such a hardworking team and play for each other and know each other’s Strengths so I lean to that. But from front to back there also all technical players. The middle two optimise this. There fluid so all need to be capable in all areas of the game. 

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Sorry for the delay on the update guys been back to work this week. Should hopefully be out before the weekend if not definitely Sunday 

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The opening post is excellent.  A lot of effort, some great concepts, plenty of detail.  I bet you are having a great save @SixPointer as a result of all you've invested.

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7 hours ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

This is a great read. Micromanaging your players' attacking and defending movement, something I too have been experimenting with lately, should warrant its own separate thread.

Very much so. Next update will have more info on specific player movement. Should have it finished off tomorrow and posted. 

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5 hours ago, Robson 07 said:

The opening post is excellent.  A lot of effort, some great concepts, plenty of detail.  I bet you are having a great save @SixPointer as a result of all you've invested.

Thanks mate. Yeah a lot of work went in. So much research to begin with followed by a lot of trials. So in a sense it’s been enjoyable there. I’ve yet to really sit down and get right threw. The league season is done. Which is where the next batch of analysis will come from. Before we go onto the supercoppa so we’re still in season one. It is definitely a journey as the players get better roles will change. Especially the front two as i still feel they need to give more at this stage. But other than that we are looking good. 

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