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On 22/09/2020 at 23:32, LeeWHU888 said:

Not too sure if I'll buy it tbh, 

It's the best management simulator out there, however I think this also affects the progress. There's no competition from anyone else so SI know that they haven't got to do too much each year and they're still going to coin it in.

I think with the current affairs we have going on in the world, now is the perfect opportunity for SI not release a game this year (just release squad updates) and concentrate on polishing up the current format and maybe even release a book that explains the in's and outs of the game.

I understand that it's a simulation and I understand it's meant to be a challenge but the game is way too complex for most people to understand. Just because there's a few of you on here who do understand it doesn't mean evereryone else does. I've read countless "guides", I've watched countless videos, you go away and take on board what is said, you get successful then out of nowhere, the tactic stops working and it seems the game does everything it can to stop you winning (constant late goals, equalisers from 20-30 yards late on, giving silly penalties away, opposition GK saving everything)Now I know it doesn't do that however, 90% of people who have issues all say similar things which makes people question the game. 

There's no way a video game should be that complex that people "need" to do so much research to understand it. Take team mentality for an example, people start a game up, create a tactic and read the description of each one to decide what they want to use. So lets say they want to emulate Guardiola, they'll probably choose an attacking mentaility as, in the description, it sounds like a Guardiola tactic. They go though the process of building their tactic and they get to "Out of Possession", they see LOE and they push it up to much higher because that's what Pep does, they then see Defensive Line and push that up to much higher because again, that's what pep does. Now at no point in this process has it been explained that because they've selected the attacking mentality, their LOE and DL has automatically been pushed up, so they've now ramped both of them up to the highest possible setting. They play a few games, their tactic gets ripped apart, they come on here for help, show their tactic and then everyone has to explain how the game works. "Go and read so and so's guide" "go and watch so and so's videos" People don't want to do all that, they have probably 3 maybe 4 hours max per night if they're lucky to play the game, they shouldn't have to spend most of their time researching stuff.

For me, video games are a break away from normality, it's my own little world where I can just chill out for a few hours each night and have fun, however, I've increasingly found that over the years, the full version of this game requires so much time to actually get it right, Having to watch the matches to find out where your tactic is going wrong? Most people haven't got time for that and I fear that as the years go by, the youngsters of today won't get gripped by the game like a lot of us did back in the late 90's early 00's and that's when we'll start to see a sharp decline in sales. My 12 year son started playing it this year, he watched me during lockdown and wanted to try it himself. He played for around 3 maybe 4 days before saying "this game is crap, it's too hard" He said he's gonna get FM21 because it might be easier (I've told him it won't be). He'll play that for around 3 days, realise it's still hard and that will be it for him, he won't go back to it ever again because it's been too hard. I imagine that's the reality of most kids who have tried to play it.

Wonder if you or your boy have tried FM Touch? I had a period just after kids were born where I couldn’t get in to the full fat version so tried Touch.  At that time in my life it worked as a quick and simpler version but there were times whereby I would want to change something or find something out only to realise I couldn’t due to it not being available so I went back to full fat.

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On 21/09/2020 at 21:06, coppicat said:

During Covid I bought FM for the first time in 15 years and as a previous addict I was really looking forward to spend time on my guilty pleasure. I am playing Nottingham Forrest and won in the playoffs to get promoted first year. Second year I finished 7th in the Premiership and miraculously won the Carabao Cup . Now in my third season I am maybe going to get a spot in the Europa League. How did I do it? I have no clue as the results seem to come at random. What is even more serious.... I actually didnt have fun. I am so frustrated playing this game that I actually have to remind myself that its all going quite well.  

I play standard tactics and dont check to much online what works and what doesnt. With the results I have had, you would imagine you would have a sense of achievement.... but instead it just seems like hard work all the time and you never have a sense of what works and what doesnt. It actually does seem like the ME is a step ahead of you at all times and you have never been handed the tools to figure out what is actually happening in a game. It also seems like all games you play are balancing on a knifes edge and the slightest little mistake in the eye of the ME will cost you dearly. I mean its plain and simple mind boggling what you encounter over a season. 

For the last couple of months I have spent a ridiculous amount of time on this game cause I was too stubborn to give up. I just couldn't believe that there was not a certain something I had totally missed which made this game so extremely frustrating..... and that's when I finally went online to find out that there were so many others that had that same feeling.

There are many aspects of the game that are nice but nothing works if the core of a game is thoroughly flawed and it this case the ME brings everything down. As in any field of the entertainment industry a computer game has to be judged on one thing only in the very end. That one thing is if its fun ... if you are having a good time. Too this question I can honestly say that this game has not in any way been fun, far from it actually. It has in fact has been extremely frustrating.

Did it get too complicated? Did the programmers want it too realistic? Did nobody focus on "gaming experience". In my opinion the one thing that is certain is that they completely lost the plot on this one. I will certainly not buy FM again... its just not fun. Probably a blessing in disguise that I chose to return to FM in this version as I would be spending way too much time on what was once a great game. Hopefully SI will be able to rectify this, but I wouldnt be at all surprised if they will feel the repercussions of this blunder on the bottom line next year.   

Excellent post. I can relate to so much of it.

I feel like almost all aspects of the games periphery have been improved over the last few years, which has added exponentially to the immersion (albeit with increased complexity) However, the nucleus of the game which is the ME seems mired and worse still stalled IMO. The end result for me was FM20 being the least enjoyable ME ever paired with the best "rest of the game" ever.......

The notion of "enjoying" the game is an interesting one. On one hand its a video game, it's entertainment and as such must be enjoyable. On the other, its simulating as best it can, a massively stressful occupation, one that regularly chews up and spits out the toughest and best of managers and coaches. I guess I'm saying I could live with it being frustrating, joyless even if it was for the right reasons.......  I actually quit playing the game this year around 750hrs, very low for me. But, Covid bought me back to the game and whilst I was grateful for the distraction after an additional 2000hrs....... I hadn't played one enjoyable save this version for many of the reasons you mention.

 

 

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2 hours ago, larsson-is-god said:

Wonder if you or your boy have tried FM Touch? I had a period just after kids were born where I couldn’t get in to the full fat version so tried Touch.  At that time in my life it worked as a quick and simpler version but there were times whereby I would want to change something or find something out only to realise I couldn’t due to it not being available so I went back to full fat.

I have mate and like you, found that it just isn't the same so always end up back with the full version. 

I will introduce my son to the touch version though, I never even thought of that before!

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On 23/09/2020 at 00:32, LeeWHU888 said:

Now at no point in this process has it been explained that because they've selected the attacking mentality, their LOE and DL has automatically been pushed up, so they've now ramped both of them up to the highest possible setting. They play a few games, their tactic gets ripped apart, they come on here for help, show their tactic and then everyone has to explain how the game works. "Go and read so and so's guide" "go and watch so and so's videos" People don't want to do all that, they have probably 3 maybe 4 hours max per night if they're lucky to play the game, they shouldn't have to spend most of their time researching stuff.

This. So much this! 

I realised FM Touch is supposed to be more straight forward so I bought that one, but the tactic stuff and match engine is exactly the same (bar the tactic familiarity). So it's no use. It's trial and error and watching matches in full, and eventually giving up because I don't have time to learn this by myself. 

SI introduced tactic templates, but I've seen people on here claiming the pre set team instructions and player roles in the templates make little sense, so what's the point then. 

While I understand FM is a simulation it is also a game, and I can't help but thinking the franchise is moving (too far) away from the "game" perspective. 

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I won't be buying the game unless the MLS gets properly tested so that teams aren't going into the season with a roster of 10 players. Enough points about this have been raised on this website but just get ignored. 

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It's interesting that in this thread there's a lot of people complaining that the game is too complex and difficult, and then there's another thread with players claiming it is too easy. Suggests that SI have managed to make the game the worst of all worlds, with it being too complex for newer or more casual players and too easy for veterans. To solve this they probably need to go all out with having two completely different versions of the game and selling and marketing these separately, promoting FM Touch as a true successor to the old CM games that people grew up with and making it accessible for new players while making a full on hardcore simulation for those who want that.

It doesn't help that FM20 has a truly dreadful ME. All you have to do in compress the game into the opposition half and wait for goals from crosses, set pieces and long shots, which is far more effective than actually playing the game properly by creating clear cut chances and one on ones. Makes it miserable, boring and mind numbingly easy.

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Calling FM difficult is a joke. It's not too hard at all. I've been playing the iterations for nearly two decades, my friend played it for the first ever time with me. I was Everton and he was Leicester and we finished 4th and 5th respectively. That's 20 years of experience vs none separated by about 3 points. FM is a game with some variance which is probably it's greatest asset since it actually reflects the realism of football quite well. It reflects it so god damn well that people actually think it's scripted which is hilarious. If you watched the United vs Brighton game today you can imagine someone played that game as Brighton on FM they would be coming on to this forum and saying "Dominated game, hit woodwork several time, but just KNEW United would win in the last minute! Stupid scripted moments". But once you play a couple of seasons and the variance has had time to even out you can see how easy it is to overachieve.

Even on a macro level in no way is FM difficult. Your training schedules are sorted, you have preset tactics, you can outplay the AI in the transfer market easily. You can literally search the entire database of football players ingame and ignore scouting completely. In fact picking any top team is essentially playing on "Very Easy setting". It's only when you set your own challenges (like National Vanarama to Div P, Attribute masking, Scouts only or Homegrown only players) that the game is a challenge.

Sure, if you play FM for the first time ever you might get overwhelmed a bit, but it is a strategy game to a degree. Look at games like Civ 6 or Crusader Kings lll and tell me FM is anything close to being difficult to play or learn lol.

Anyways, I personally think FM needs to focus more on it's glaring flaws like an ME engine that is painful to watch, AI making poor transfers, and abusable tactical implementations. I also thinking the player interactions are tedious and match shouts are basically just a meme at this point.

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13 hours ago, KeegBCFC said:

I won't be buying the game unless the MLS gets properly tested so that teams aren't going into the season with a roster of 10 players. Enough points about this have been raised on this website but just get ignored. 


I wish they’d integrate the USL more with MLS clubs. Like how Galaxy have Galaxy II and Timbers have Timbers II etc. That way we could have a waaaay easier method of getting our players match fitness up so they can play instead of going out of our way to arrange friendlies and sit through another match after match day and risk injuring our back ups as well.

An academy youth league would be easier. Nothing crazy or specific. Just a general U-18 league for our academies. 
 

If FM21 had those two things I’d buy it for sure.

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I absolutely will be buying it as I do each year.

I don't find it too easy now but don't find it too difficult, a happy medium.

I can see how those completely new to the game do struggle but if the idea is to make it as realistic a simulator as possible rather than an arcade experience this is going to get progressively worse.

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Am on the fence for sure this time round. I really like the game out side of match days. I have not enjoyed the match engine for a few years now.

However the game is now coming to Xbox, and while it will be more like FM Touch, I am excited to see what that brings. I really hope there is a way to deal with morale as that's my biggest issue with FM Touch.

But no pre-order from me this year.

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Don't know really. FM 20 has been the least enjoyable FM for me since, well since I started playing I think. I will wait for some features reveal and see. Otherwise I think I will play FM 2019.

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On 25/09/2020 at 09:38, toffee71 said:

Had to, can't wait to see how James Rodriguez reacts to me waddling into dressing room.

@bigmattb28 relying on you to start the is it here yet, when the time comes.

Hahah that thread was the greatest 2 days of my life. It's even on my CV. I won the day twice on this forum because of that thread. Brings a tear to my eye. #memories

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On 23/09/2020 at 01:32, LeeWHU888 said:

the game does everything it can to stop you winning (constant late goals, equalisers from 20-30 yards late on, giving silly penalties away, opposition GK saving everything)

As a Spurs fan, this sounds to me like an excellent representation of real world football.

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5 hours ago, bigmattb28 said:

Hahah that thread was the greatest 2 days of my life. It's even on my CV. I won the day twice on this forum because of that thread. Brings a tear to my eye. #memories

giphy.gif

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No question at all, I'll be buying it as I have done for many years.

Of course it's not perfect. It's a game, a simulation, and FM is never going to be able to replicate the madness and variety of football, that's impossible.

It does a bloody good job though, far better than anything that's ever tried to challenge it. And I really don't get this idea that each edition is just a data update with a few added superficial extras. The added features on FM20 for me really added to the depth and gameplay.

30 or 40 quid for a game that gives me literally hundreds if not thousands of hours of enjoyment (and yes, frustration when I'm losing!) is a no brainer for me. I appreciate that some find it too hard or too easy or too unrealistic, and that's fine, I would just say give yourself a year's break from it and come back if you get withdrawal symptoms...

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I don't often post in here, but there's been some interesting and well-made points made in regards to the game difficulty and playing experience. 

The fact that there have been well-reasoned points on both sides of the argument around whether the game is too easy or not, suggests to me that SI are probably there or thereabouts in terms of finding that tricky balance between being challenging enough for experienced players and engaging enough for those playing the game for the first time. 

Personally speaking, one of the biggest challenges I have is understanding why my team isn't working tactically and I can identify with some of the posts highlighting that. I do feel that unless I pay great attention to detail in the actual matches - i.e. watching in full - then it's difficult to pick out exactly what's not working in my system and before being able to consider how to solve it.  

I think that's the crucial thing worth remembering for people who're frustrated by the ME - being able to correctly diagnose what's not working in your tactics before trying to fix it.

If you get the diagnosis wrong, everything else you do to compensate it is essentially just going to complicate their original problem, and that's where I think people get frustrated and feel lost. 

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I've always bought FM but I'm not sure.

History has told me it's never really fully playable until the 3rd patch. Even then there are some issues with FM20 that still bug me a lot. 

Primarily, I am not confident transitional seasons because of Covid will be implemented properly. I think I'll wait probably a month after release and see what people are saying. 

FM doesn't grip me like it used to. I've made thorough posts on this before. I wish they'd focus more on tactics and recruitment rather than other gimmicks. The poster above that mentioned how his son couldn't get into it, without any offence, I also struggled to get FM as a 12 year old and I'm not sure it's possible to make a game that is simple enough for a 12 year old but also complex enough for a football mature adult. But by my mid-late teens, for sure I was hooked by the idea of recruiting the players I wanted and building them into tactical systems. Now days I just feel the ME has just become too...I'm not sure this is the word, but ideological. Like I've said many times, it feels like you're forced to play certain ways instead of having the fluidity to build your own tactical system and implementing it. 

Gone are the days I'd enjoy debating how to implement 4-1-3-2 or 3-3-1-3. Now days I just know that for the last 2-3FM's there's a set formation or play style that'll win and everything else is unimportant.

I hope the good people at SI have taken on board some of the criticisms with the game and do their best, but at the moment I'm not confident. I hope to be proven wrong.

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Nope, I'll wait and see what people on here say about the ME when it comes out. I really hope it will be a lot better than FM20, cause I miss playing FM but the ME ruined it for me this year. I didn't get past the third season and sadly it's not possible for me to go back to FM19 or earlier because I don't like it when player's stats are not up to date. Let's wait and see, if the ME is not good again I will do the same for FM22, and so on until there's a ME that reflects real life football in an acceptable way.

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Not until March, if the new features are worth the change, otherwise I'll stick with FM20. Last year the game was unplayable until March, so I learnt my lesson. Will keep reading the feedback given by the Community though once the game is out. Watch my favourite Youtubers and make a final decision. Won't be pre-ordering for sure.

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On 30/09/2020 at 03:43, Travis Bickle said:

I've always bought FM but I'm not sure.

History has told me it's never really fully playable until the 3rd patch. Even then there are some issues with FM20 that still bug me a lot. 

Primarily, I am not confident transitional seasons because of Covid will be implemented properly. I think I'll wait probably a month after release and see what people are saying. 

FM doesn't grip me like it used to. I've made thorough posts on this before. I wish they'd focus more on tactics and recruitment rather than other gimmicks. The poster above that mentioned how his son couldn't get into it, without any offence, I also struggled to get FM as a 12 year old and I'm not sure it's possible to make a game that is simple enough for a 12 year old but also complex enough for a football mature adult. But by my mid-late teens, for sure I was hooked by the idea of recruiting the players I wanted and building them into tactical systems. Now days I just feel the ME has just become too...I'm not sure this is the word, but ideological. Like I've said many times, it feels like you're forced to play certain ways instead of having the fluidity to build your own tactical system and implementing it. 

Gone are the days I'd enjoy debating how to implement 4-1-3-2 or 3-3-1-3. Now days I just know that for the last 2-3FM's there's a set formation or play style that'll win and everything else is unimportant.

I hope the good people at SI have taken on board some of the criticisms with the game and do their best, but at the moment I'm not confident. I hope to be proven wrong.

I think the word your looking for is Sterile !!! . 

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On 29/09/2020 at 15:43, Travis Bickle said:

FM doesn't grip me like it used to. I've made thorough posts on this before. I wish they'd focus more on tactics and recruitment rather than other gimmicks.

This. I've never seen a company so thoroughly lose touch with what made their game unique and popular- a legitimately realistic simulation of football. People don't care about the fake tweets, they don't care about press conferences, and they don't care about team talks or random coinflip interactions with players. I think it all started with things like the  3d match engine, which was made a huge priority by SI despite basically no one asking for it. It's only gotten worse since. Now they've overcomplicated things like training, so if you want to minmax there's no difficulty, just the annoying monotony of setting everything up.

The thing is this: despite by all rights being a buggy mess, FM20 has very positive reviews. Like any sports game, there are enough casual fans who buy the newest iteration to always make money. And SI will only ever be attempting to appeal to the lowest common denominator to maintain sales.

I didn't get FM20 and consider that a very good decision. I don't think I will be getting any more FMs for quite a while, possibly never. Everything from tactics to training to the circus of random **** you have to do like press conferences, pep talks, meetings, etc. I just simply can't be asked. I bounce around FM 16 and 18 and generally have a decent time. I tried an FM19 save recently but got tired out from just how much other stuff you have to do aside from actually playing the games! 

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13 hours ago, hagedisboy said:

Nope, I'll wait and see what people on here say about the ME when it comes out.

Just like every year, there will be people who'll like the ME and people who won't.  There will be people who will point out particular issues and people who will try to offer support and advice.  And there will be some who will just rant and swear.  But nobody, not even SI, will says it's perfect.

So where does that leave you?  Who to believe?  How to decide?  Simple answer, believe yourself - there will be a free demo to try out.  Nobody's opinion will ever be as important as your own.  Who cares what everyone else thinks when you yourself can try things out for free and at zero risk.

As Brian once told us, you've got to think for yourselves, you're all individuals! :D

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10 hours ago, anxiousAnarchist said:

This. I've never seen a company so thoroughly lose touch with what made their game unique and popular- a legitimately realistic simulation of football. People don't care about the fake tweets, they don't care about press conferences, and they don't care about team talks or random coinflip interactions with players. I think it all started with things like the  3d match engine, which was made a huge priority by SI despite basically no one asking for it. It's only gotten worse since. Now they've overcomplicated things like training, so if you want to minmax there's no difficulty, just the annoying monotony of setting everything up.

The thing is this: despite by all rights being a buggy mess, FM20 has very positive reviews. Like any sports game, there are enough casual fans who buy the newest iteration to always make money. And SI will only ever be attempting to appeal to the lowest common denominator to maintain sales.

I didn't get FM20 and consider that a very good decision. I don't think I will be getting any more FMs for quite a while, possibly never. Everything from tactics to training to the circus of random **** you have to do like press conferences, pep talks, meetings, etc. I just simply can't be asked. I bounce around FM 16 and 18 and generally have a decent time. I tried an FM19 save recently but got tired out from just how much other stuff you have to do aside from actually playing the games! 

People then say, just play FMT. 

Well, I don't want to and that's besides the point. Instead of having a very good ME/Recruitment/Training mechanism AND a bunch of gimmicks, we just get a bunch of gimmicks. They totally messed up the recruitment/responsibilities screens because who knows, the social media feed is a total waste of space and I doubt many people care too much about Loan Managers. Even something that is an alright addition, like the Development Centre, well I'd happily take more time spent on the ME than a Development Centre interface that practically does nothing in terms of actually helping development. 

I wish they would just go back to what made them great.

There was a period in which FM felt like you were a real football manager because the world of tactics and recruitment were so immersive. People play FM because they generally love football and want to implement tactical styles and recruitment strategies they see on TV or spend hours debating with their friends. I don't play FM to answer the same questions before every single game and argue with my third choice goalkeeper why I sold a "promising" regen with 4 determination for 10M with a 40% sell on clause.  

 

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10 minutes ago, Travis Bickle said:

People then say, just play FMT. 

Well, I don't want to and that's besides the point. Instead of having a very good ME/Recruitment/Training mechanism AND a bunch of gimmicks, we just get a bunch of gimmicks. They totally messed up the recruitment/responsibilities screens because who knows, the social media feed is a total waste of space and I doubt many people care too much about Loan Managers. Even something that is an alright addition, like the Development Centre, well I'd happily take more time spent on the ME than a Development Centre interface that practically does nothing in terms of actually helping development. 

I wish they would just go back to what made them great.

There was a period in which FM felt like you were a real football manager because the world of tactics and recruitment were so immersive. People play FM because they generally love football and want to implement tactical styles and recruitment strategies they see on TV or spend hours debating with their friends. I don't play FM to answer the same questions before every single game and argue with my third choice goalkeeper why I sold a "promising" regen with 4 determination for 10M with a 40% sell on clause.  

 

Unfortunately, we are in the road, that is FM is a football Simulation above all else. Meaning that every aspect of football life that is related to a Managing a football team and its players, be in the game and simulated. Managers do Press Conferences... FMers do Press Conferences as well. Clubs have to interact with agents... Fmers have to interact with agents. And so on. Long are the days of transfers only between clubs and the focus was only on Transfers and Tactics, and believe me when I say those days unfortunately are never coming back. Unless something drastic occurs that won't change that. Removing features, is quite high risk, because you will risk alienating a good portion of the current costumers. The only two solution is making FM even more modular, where each FMers, chose what to activate or not and do FM Touch an exclusive for Ipads/Tablets and Switch. Or show more love to FM Touch, specially those that prefer play Touch on the PC and Mac. For me in the immediate future, as long we are not have FM fully modular, is too split, FM Touch (exclusive for Ipad/Tablets and Switch) and FM Classic (for PC and Mac). But that is me.

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6 minutes ago, grade said:

Unfortunately, we are in the road, that is FM is a football Simulation above all else. Meaning that every aspect of football life that is related to a Managing a football team and its players, be in the game and simulated. Managers do Press Conferences... FMers do Press Conferences as well. Clubs have to interact with agents... Fmers have to interact with agents. And so on. Long are the days of transfers only between clubs and the focus was only on Transfers and Tactics, and believe me when I say those days unfortunately are never coming back. Unless something drastic occurs that won't change that. Removing features, is quite high risk, because you will risk alienating a good portion of the current costumers. The only two solution is making FM even more modular, where each FMers, chose what to activate or not and do FM Touch an exclusive for Ipads/Tablets and Switch. Or show more love to FM Touch, specially those that prefer play Touch on the PC and Mac. For me in the immediate future, as long we are not have FM fully modular, is too split, FM Touch (exclusive for Ipad/Tablets and Switch) and FM Classic (for PC and Mac). But that is me.

They are poorly implemented though and do nothing for immersion.

I am talking about priorities first. 

They get the ME to a 9.5/10 standard, player recruitment to a 9.5/10 standard and THEN they can worry about the additional features imo.

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2 hours ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

- There is basically no difference watching League 1 football or watching Ronaldo and Messi, it's the same ugly wee men ice skating around a football pitch rendered straight out of 2005

Exactly. I think it is really the time to work on better football representation, I don't even react anymore to "neeew training, neeww scouting" etc. 

Somehow, they managed to make 2D engine to be uglier than before, and 3D is still still stuck in the beggining of 2000's.

I know hard core fans will say "nooo FM is not about graphics, we want better press conferences" but I would really love to see some advancement in the representation, that would just make the game better.

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11 minutes ago, Marko1989 said:

Somehow, they managed to make 2D engine to be uglier than before, and 3D is still still stuck in the beggining of 2000's.

I know hard core fans will say "nooo FM is not about graphics, we want better press conferences" but I would really love to see some advancement in the representation, that would just make the game better.

It's gotten to the point where die hard fans are begging for even the most basic improvements year to year. Improvements to things like UI, graphics, etc are a GIVEN in any other franchise. 

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2 ore fa, Marko1989 ha scritto:

I know hard core fans will say "nooo FM is not about graphics, we want better press conferences"

Not really, not sure where you read that or what kind of hard core fans you hang out with.

But they don't attend this forum for sure.

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Honestly they should take a break but financially for them that's impossible (Especially now) but they need to build the game from the ground up. Scrap everything and make this game up to the standards it set all those years ago. A Football Manager. An ME that actually plays like a real football game with teams playing in different tactics that set them apart, no more Gegeen presses or broken tactics that make it game breaking. Balance it all out for a game we can go back to years from now & say: "Damn, this is what it feels like". Add all the gimmicks you want but if the ME is a busted set piece, long range, penalty taking mess then I will pick my poison with good old FM 17.

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In an ideal world it would be great to "pick and mix" various feature you want from a game. My ideal game would have no team talks, a press "strategy" under the hood that RNGs your interactions rather than duplicate answers every time, youth development (FM Touch misses this for me to ever pick it up) and being able to actually have a large database on FMT (rather than the hacky solution here 

I booted up FM18 recently after a while on FM20 it just felt like a relief on my mind looking at the clean, minimalist UI. The Football was somewhat realistic (I'm aware FM18 had some pretty glaring issues such as three strikers) and it just felt good to play. FM20 feels like a chore of sitting through missed 1vs1s, set piece goals and tactical limitations, such as removing the option to set team shape, this was a huge step back to the personalization of your style of play, see the discussion in this thread for more information:

Even if the ME could go back to FM18 and allow this customization of tactics, I could forgive SI. It's this weird irony of SI making the game itself full of bloated features making it more complex, whilst simplifying tactics to the point of making every tactic boring to watch, and that includes gegenpress. 

I'll pick up the demo and hope they have allowed this customization, but I don't hold out hope on it.

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On 01/10/2020 at 06:23, anxiousAnarchist said:

This. I've never seen a company so thoroughly lose touch with what made their game unique and popular- a legitimately realistic simulation of football. People don't care about the fake tweets, they don't care about press conferences, and they don't care about team talks or random coinflip interactions with players. I think it all started with things like the  3d match engine, which was made a huge priority by SI despite basically no one asking for it. ... And SI will only ever be attempting to appeal to the lowest common denominator to maintain sales.

So true. Especially since press conferences, social media, team talks, etc., are so poorly implemented. And I had zero interest in 3D prior to its implementation and still do.

In regards to the last sentence ... what's sad is that it seemed like that didn't use to be the case. I've been playing this game for 15 years now, and it just seemed like when I started playing it, the focus was on being realistic. Now it's on making money. 

On 01/10/2020 at 17:37, Travis Bickle said:

There was a period in which FM felt like you were a real football manager because the world of tactics and recruitment were so immersive. People play FM because they generally love football and want to implement tactical styles and recruitment strategies they see on TV or spend hours debating with their friends. I don't play FM to answer the same questions before every single game and argue with my third choice goalkeeper why I sold a "promising" regen with 4 determination for 10M with a 40% sell on clause.

  This.

On 01/10/2020 at 18:00, grade said:

Removing features, is quite high risk, because you will risk alienating a good portion of the current costumers.

There are players who would miss press conferences, social media, team talks, etc.? Maybe these forums aren't an accurate representation of the overall view of FM players, but it seems like a massive majority here don't like those features and would be glad to see them gone, especially given their poorly developed state.

As far as the original question of this thread ... I think that I'll likely purchase 21 upon release, but it might be my last one, and, if it is, I probably won't be coming back. If I lose interest in something, that interest tends to be permanently gone.

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7 hours ago, USASoundersFan said:

There are players who would miss press conferences, social media, team talks, etc.? Maybe these forums aren't an accurate representation of the overall view of FM players, but it seems like a massive majority here don't like those features and would be glad to see them gone, especially given their poorly developed state.

I agree that they are poorly developed but I also aknowledge the fact that it's very hard if not impossible to develop those features better due to lack of the real AI. Until then we are doomed to generic questions and generic social media posts. I also don't see the point of removing them when you can simply delegate press conferences to AM if you don't like them or not read the social media if you don't like it.

Personally, I don't care about social media in the game but I like press conferences even in this state as it is and I always attend them in person. If they keep adding new questions to database every year while also removing some of the questions based on the feedback they can get better.

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6 hours ago, yolixeya said:

I also don't see the point of removing them when you can simply delegate press conferences to AM if you don't like them or not read the social media if you don't like it.

True, those aspects can be removed/ignored, but I don't like that the assistant manager's responses will affect the team's state of mind, something that's out of my control if I don't attend them myself. As far as social media goes, I'd like much of the information that's available there to go into my inbox instead.

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Isn't the ultimate problem with the match engine that it feels like nothing actually matters?

The game looks at the relative strengths of both teams, decides the result then just plays out a game to get to that result. You can't setup a team defensively, they'll just concede loads from set pieces because the ME has decided the team must lose, and if you attack the set piece goals stop you just then concede goals from open play because we have to get to a realistic result.

I've said before, in my opinion the key issue with the match engine is that you can't break it or overcome it. Everything is focussed on realistic results to the point where stuff doesn't make sense. You can create a tactic that creates a load  of 1v1 chances but the results have to stay the same so none of them go in.

I do wonder how possible it would have been, for example, to get promoted as Sheffield United on the game. Is it possible on FM to be a team that's better than the sum of its parts? Because it feels like it isn't.

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If MLS problems are fixed, i would. I'm fine with the match engine or another stuff. Just my favorite league MLS is really need improvement, that bothers me. Yeah the game can be better but thats the best we can get. I dont know maybe its because I'm an FM addict lol 

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The biggest issue for me is the Al's unrational and unlogical thinking. For instance when youre managing a team outside the top leagues. Play Champions League and your star players desperately wants to leave to United or Chelsea just to be put in their U23s and get no playing time. 

 

Other than that i think its a good game. 

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