Will anyone be buying FM21?

[BadAss88]

I just want this!

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by BadAss88

[FrazT]

5 hours ago, Marko1989 said:

It will be very interesting to see FM 21 if nothing else

There are people who hate this FM, there are some who think it is the worst fm ever like me, and there are people who think it is the best fm ever. It also got 2nd place on "favourite fm" poll ( which is very worrying) 

I can't wait to see who will SI listen to, to those who point to obvious problems in the engine, or to those who think this fm is so great and they don't change anything in that case

 

As they always do, the SI staff will listen to all their users who take the time to raise constructive points.  The fact that there is such a wide range of feelings about the current game does highlight the difficulties they will face when deciding on specifics for the way forward.  Every version since the early days of the CM series has had users who love it and those who dont and I doubt if that will change.

[Federico]

15 ore fa, anagain ha scritto:

C'mon, this is FM, the best football game ever!

Kick Off 2 is

[HawaiianHippo]

Will buy this year, as I do every year!

The game improves every year I find, always tweaking and adding bits that make it feel more immersive. 

[kalokalitokalo]

I will wait until the last patch and then decide. Been buying it for the long time, but this year's SI way of doing things "it's ok according to real statistics", "the game is good because there is a lot of people playing it" deserves a drop in sales IMO.

 

I hate that I have 2 managers in Spain, one for B team and the Ass. Manager of B team constantly changes the tactic formation and lineup.

I also don't like that SI doesn't put interest in understanding and implementing Spanish money correctly (both TV and sponsors).

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 hour ago, kalokalitokalo said:

 but this year's SI way of doing things "it's ok according to real statistics", "the game is good because there is a lot of people playing it" deserves a drop in sales IMO.

 

SI/Sega will always look at sales and the numbers of players playing the game to determine whether they feel an edition has been successful. Everything else is just subjective. 

Record numbers playing the game this year, perhaps inflated due to the pandemic, but still. Most people wouldn't continually play a game they didn't like. 

[Ruh Roh]

I "play the editor" more than I play the actual game these days so I won't be too happy about anything that makes me play Coronaball in the first season no matter what. Something like Brexit, I could actually look at and say, well this is just emergent gameplay, it doesn't make sense that every league in football carries out its 2018, 2019 or 2020 player registration rules into perpetuity forever.

But I think this is different, and it will take up a lot of their attention: empty arena matches are surely just a switch you can toggle, but the fixture rules stuff will be difficult (it took a while to get everything right around the Qatar winter WC) and finances will be very difficult. I just hope they have people who make/use custom databases on their minds: not as a first priority or even like a third priority, but on the list somewhere.

Longstanding FM issues about the match engine and (lmao) regen faces are still there with 20. If this is a typical gaming "simulation vs. arcade argument" I get that I'll be outvoted 10 to 1 but I really want more dramatic, pronounced player behavior in the ME, even if it kind of crosses the line into exaggeration. If most people probably play on highlights, then the highlights are important.

[Marko1989]

20 hours ago, anagain said:

How can you disagree with everything I said?

The patch notes are there on Steam for everyone to read, and they show the changes to the ME. 

The positive review from the community is there on Steam for all to see. I suppose it is a lie and reviews are removed? 

If you don't think they'll make the best game they can then why are you here? All your negativity just suggests to me that you can't be made happy, and you'll call it a miss regardless.

Be positive, man. C'mon, this is FM, the best football game ever!

How can I disagree? Man, I can think whatever I want, isn't that logical.

Patch notes, copies sold and positive reviews MEAN NOTHING. Than does not mean this is FM is good. 
Let's for example take something popular. Some idiotic tik tok song for example. Some of those songs have a hundred of milions of views, millions of likes, does that mean that music is good? 

No, of course. In some cases, numbers/likes/positive reviews mean nothing.

You must take in consideration that those positive reviews, may be writen by hardcore fans, who will defend the game no matter what, they may be written by people who win all the time because the game is way too easy so they like it just because they win, veterans of the game who will always give positive review, new players who don't know that previous versions were better, lack of competition and so on. When it comes to FM positive reviews absolutely mean nothing because of that.

To me, this FM/Match engine is absolutely bad representation of football, I can't stand to watch the games. I don't hate FM or SI, I grew up on those games, I am just honest.

I tried so much to love the game but I could not. On purpose, numerous of times I've created a new save game with Barcelona and then I play a number of friendlies against amateur teams to watch Messi on the pitch. NOT A SINGLE TIME I SAW HIM DRIBBLE OR CUT INSIDE or something that could make you smile and say, hey, this dot really does play like Messi. Hey he really does behave according to his attributes and traits. We had that in 2015. On the pitch, you could clearly see attributes and players traits. On FM 2020, I saw more Messi scoring headers than him doing through balls, his trademark. On FM 2020 I see screamers from full backs, long shot goals from players with <10 attribute for long shots, many header goals from wingers, I don't even know what is the purpose of attributes anymore.

Positive reviews, number of copies sold, patch notes, mean nothing to me.

[kalokalitokalo]

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

SI/Sega will always look at sales and the numbers of players playing the game to determine whether they feel an edition has been successful. Everything else is just subjective. 

Record numbers playing the game this year, perhaps inflated due to the pandemic, but still. Most people wouldn't continually play a game they didn't like. 

Successful and good are not the same thing. Which years did SI had to put a public beta in January?

That tells a lot about the quality of this edition, and stopping the bug fixing because "a lot of people is playing the game" is an atitude that needs to be punished by us the customers IMO.

[Dagenham_Dave]

17 minutes ago, kalokalitokalo said:

Successful and good are not the same thing.

Sales numbers and quality of game are not the same thing. Record numbers still playing an annually released title around 9 months into its lifecycle is a pretty good indicator of quality. 

You know what isn't an indicator of whether something is good or not? A vocal minority of jaded gamers on the internet. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 hour ago, Marko1989 said:

 

You must take in consideration that those positive reviews, may be writen by hardcore fans, who will defend the game no matter what, they may be written by people who win all the time because the game is way too easy so they like it just because they win, veterans of the game who will always give positive review, new players who don't know that previous versions were better, lack of competition and so on. When it comes to FM positive reviews absolutely mean nothing because of that.

 

But yet we're supposed to respect YOUR negative views of the game? 

You must take into consideration that all those negative comments may be written by jaded gamers with unrealistic expectations who will attack the game no matter what, they may be written by people who can't understand that if a player has '9' for long shots, this doesn't mean he can't score a long shot, or if their team has 50 chances but doesn't score, that it might...just might be their fault and not the game's. When it comes to FM, negative feedback absolutely means nothing because of that. 

See, I can play the sweeping generalisation game too. 

[Marko1989]

30 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

But yet we're supposed to respect YOUR negative views of the game? 

You must take into consideration that all those negative comments may be written by jaded gamers with unrealistic expectations who will attack the game no matter what, they may be written by people who can't understand that if a player has '9' for long shots, this doesn't mean he can't score a long shot, or if their team has 50 chances but doesn't score, that it might...just might be their fault and not the game's. When it comes to FM, negative feedback absolutely means nothing because of that. 

See, I can play the sweeping generalisation game too. 

Well, I can't argue about this part  - "negative feedback means nothing" since I didn't see any improvement after so many critics from players on this forum

[YankeeRam]

I'll see what the new things are and what if any fixes they make. 

[anagain]

5 hours ago, Marko1989 said:

How can I disagree? Man, I can think whatever I want, isn't that logical.

Patch notes, copies sold and positive reviews MEAN NOTHING. Than does not mean this is FM is good. 
Let's for example take something popular. Some idiotic tik tok song for example. Some of those songs have a hundred of milions of views, millions of likes, does that mean that music is good? 

No, of course. In some cases, numbers/likes/positive reviews mean nothing.

You must take in consideration that those positive reviews, may be writen by hardcore fans, who will defend the game no matter what, they may be written by people who win all the time because the game is way too easy so they like it just because they win, veterans of the game who will always give positive review, new players who don't know that previous versions were better, lack of competition and so on. When it comes to FM positive reviews absolutely mean nothing because of that.

To me, this FM/Match engine is absolutely bad representation of football, I can't stand to watch the games. I don't hate FM or SI, I grew up on those games, I am just honest.

I tried so much to love the game but I could not. On purpose, numerous of times I've created a new save game with Barcelona and then I play a number of friendlies against amateur teams to watch Messi on the pitch. NOT A SINGLE TIME I SAW HIM DRIBBLE OR CUT INSIDE or something that could make you smile and say, hey, this dot really does play like Messi. Hey he really does behave according to his attributes and traits. We had that in 2015. On the pitch, you could clearly see attributes and players traits. On FM 2020, I saw more Messi scoring headers than him doing through balls, his trademark. On FM 2020 I see screamers from full backs, long shot goals from players with <10 attribute for long shots, many header goals from wingers, I don't even know what is the purpose of attributes anymore.

Positive reviews, number of copies sold, patch notes, mean nothing to me.

But we're talking a bout a subset here. When you talk about a song on Tik Tok you are referring to whether it is liked globally. With regards to the FM20 reviews on Steam we're judging amongst FM20 owners. 

Only owners of FM20 can review the title on Steam, and 87% of those people have given a positive review. I suppose you are going to tell me that the majority of dissatisfied owners chose not to make thir opinions heard...like they refrain from on this forum.

You can not get away from that positivity towards FM20 being fact.

The same is true for the fact that FM20 has had improvements to its match engine since release. The history posted on steam testifies to that - https://store.steampowered.com/newshub/app/1100600?updates=true

If we look at metacritic, FM20 has an 84% rating from critics. The review from users is less favourable on metacritic, being at 55%, but that figure can include any Tom, Dick or Harry who doesn't own the game but may have a beef with SI and wants to leave a negative review. 

Steam and critic reviews are moderated sources and indicative of the feel of those that own the game.

I think you are picking hairs here to enforce your argument that the game is not good. If you want to feel like that fine, but you can't escape the facts that game has a positive review and that updates have been made to the game. The fact that updates are there blows out of the water any suggestion that the devs haven't tred to improve the game.

But we can continue to suggest this FM is the "worst ever". That is what I am arguing. General statements like that are unfair.

Quote

I tried so much to love the game but I could not. On purpose, numerous of times I've created a new save game with Barcelona and then I play a number of friendlies against amateur teams to watch Messi on the pitch. NOT A SINGLE TIME I SAW HIM DRIBBLE OR CUT INSIDE or something that could make you smile and say, hey, this dot really does play like Messi. Hey he really does behave according to his attributes and traits. We had that in 2015. On the pitch, you could clearly see attributes and players traits. On FM 2020, I saw more Messi scoring headers than him doing through balls, his trademark. On FM 2020 I see screamers from full backs, long shot goals from players with <10 attribute for long shots, many header goals from wingers, I don't even know what is the purpose of attributes anymore.

What is the subset here? A few friendlies? Are you giving the ball to Messi and instructing him to dribble, or are you playing a set formation that treats him as any other player in his position? I see dribbling regualrly in my games. Yes, I see crazy long shots, and it frustrates me when I lose to them. As I have said countless times, creating a perfect simulation of football based around numbers is never going to be easy. I persoanlly belive I have seen a wide range of goals scored in my my 5 ingame seasons in FM20. I've seen long range blasters aplenty, yes, but I've seen headers from corner, trickery from wingers cutting inside and laying the ball off to a striker, backpass calamities, strikers robbing defenders in the area. I've seen a lot of winger to winger backpost headers or volleys. Maybe too many, but, again, a simulation can not be perfect.

Just like watching a real match? No, not always. A good representation? Yes, I believe so, after watching a lot of the game on comprehensive highlights. Can I ask, did you watch Messi in those friendlies in full highlights or did you have things on key? Be truthful now. 

Perfect? No. Worst FM ever? Of course not. Let's be fair here.

Edited September 5, 2020 by anagain

[Gee_Simpson]

If anything, it's maybe a little too easy to get wingers in this game dribbling past teams like erm...Messi!

[anagain]

7 minutes ago, Gee_Simpson said:

If anything, it's maybe a little too easy to get wingers in this game dribbling past teams like erm...Messi!

It often is, yes. Sadly, they just can't cross when they do so. They pause, wait for the defender to catch up and then hit the ball against his legs. 

I can criticise too, @Marko1989 I just don't think that means the worst FM ever. 

But, for those maybe fewer beautiful times when my winger picks the ball up wide, cuts inside a first defender, nutmegs the second, drives for the byeline and cuts back a peach of a ball to my onrushing BTB MF...

...for those moments I love this game. And my neighbours probably know it when I shout "you $*%$ing beauty!" at the top of my voice. That is why FM20 is so wonderful for me.

Edited September 5, 2020 by anagain

[kalokalitokalo]

9 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Sales numbers and quality of game are not the same thing. Record numbers still playing an annually released title around 9 months into its lifecycle is a pretty good indicator of quality. 

You know what isn't an indicator of whether something is good or not? A vocal minority of jaded gamers on the internet. 

I repeat my question, which other years SI had to put a public beta in January?

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 hour ago, kalokalitokalo said:

I repeat my question, which other years SI had to put a public beta in January?

There was a public beta throughout FM19's lifecycle too. It's got nothing to do with the quality of the game, but the access that SI can give the player base to live test potential updates. That's only really been a thing in the last two editions. I'd expect it to be the same in FM21 and beyond. 

[kalokalitokalo]

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

There was a public beta throughout FM19's lifecycle too. It's got nothing to do with the quality of the game, but the access that SI can give the player base to live test potential updates. That's only really been a thing in the last two editions. I'd expect it to be the same in FM21 and beyond. 

To you it has nothing to do with the quality of the game. To me yes, it does.

Nothing more to say. Choose to buy or not according to your criteria, so will I as I stated in my first comment.

No need for more off topic.

[anagain]

4 hours ago, kalokalitokalo said:

I repeat my question, which other years SI had to put a public beta in January?

Public betas are a thing in many games these days. It's a way for the developer to invite people on board to test updates to a game.

Stop thinking in the past when a beta meant the game wasn't released. Gaming is changing in many ways. I know a number of other games that have beta programs to test future content, or games that have varying programs of community testing.

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 hour ago, kalokalitokalo said:

To you it has nothing to do with the quality of the game. To me yes, it does.

 

Then you are incorrect. 

[kalokalitokalo]

27 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Then you are incorrect. 

Sure, FM19 had public beta since it got released.

FM20 didn't and it wasn't open until late January, after ruining the ME with patches launched. Even a child can spot the difference here.

 

But yeah, it has nothing to do with the quality of the game. I'm incorrect, you are right. Move on.

[Dagenham_Dave]

28 minutes ago, kalokalitokalo said:

 

FM20 didn't and it wasn't open until late January, after ruining the ME with patches launched.

Are you going for the record for being wrong the most times in one thread?

[ImDaWeasel]

Yes. Buying regardless. £30 for hundreds of hours of gameplay is a bargain every year.

[Federico]

Il 5/9/2020 in 04:04 , anagain ha scritto:

Steam and critic reviews are moderated sources and indicative of the feel of those that own the game.

I slightly disagree on that. I personally don't take much in consideration any review coming from customers, and I only rely on professionals (VG magazines) when I need an unbiased judgment on anything (like movies in example). They are payed for doing the job right, a bad review (not negative but bad) makes the journalist biased and untrusftull. The magazine loses reliability. The journalist is fired.

Customers don't give a hell of anything, they write what they want, no payback for them. Weeks ago I watched at the tele a documentary about people being payed giving good/great reviews on products sold on Amazon, because the results of a marketing survey shown how people is more encouraged to purchase products with high ratings, they don't even care to read the pros/cons and are not able to make a good evaluation on what they're ready to spend their own money for.

They receive products for free as payment for their "service". In few months they collect thousands of hundreds of products, all of them for free. Of course this is not the case for FM and SI, I don't even dare to think something like this, but it demonstrate how the world of customer's reviews is such a joke it should never been taken in consideration, good or bad the reviews are.

Now you posted a screenshot, here's mine just taken from Steam.

 

If you go to the FM20 reviews page, you'll see the same. There's one review with some argumentation, the others... I don't really know why they're even accepted and counted as good reviews. Are they trustuful? They are, as much as those chinese bad ones banned because of no mandarin language in FM19.

Il 5/9/2020 in 04:04 , anagain ha scritto:

Perfect? No. Worst FM ever? Of course not. Let's be fair here.

This is subjective. For me it's maybe not the worst, but more likely in the top 2 yes.

Never seen a perfect FM, but there is a favourite of course.

 

[FlorianAlbert9]

Il 4/9/2020 in 22:34 , Marko1989 ha scritto:

 

I tried so much to love the game but I could not. On purpose, numerous of times I've created a new save game with Barcelona and then I play a number of friendlies against amateur teams to watch Messi on the pitch. NOT A SINGLE TIME I SAW HIM DRIBBLE OR CUT INSIDE or something that could make you smile and say, hey, this dot really does play like Messi. Hey he really does behave according to his attributes and traits. We had that in 2015. On the pitch, you could clearly see attributes and players traits. On FM 2020, I saw more Messi scoring headers than him doing through balls, his trademark. On FM 2020 I see screamers from full backs, long shot goals from players with <10 attribute for long shots, many header goals from wingers, I don't even know what is the purpose of attributes anymore.

Even if I tried played with less and low cross, more than half of my team goals are header. (and also goals from AI are header for a good half). My best scorer is my Trequartista in wide left position. He scored 12 header. And even if ha a very good jumping attributes (14), his header attributes is 2 that is very low even in a poor league as Hungarian one.

This ME version make all player like Bierhoff/Klose. You can have a striker with 20 finishing and he will need at least 5 good chance to score, while a player with 2 header will need 3 header at max to score. 
 

to compare with real life stats, in the last premier the top 3 team in headed goals are: Liverpool 19, Everton 16 and Burnley 12., That is 22%, 36% and 28%.  The best player are Jimenez, VanD and Woods with 5. and all have good header stat in FM20.

In this FM20 there is too much difference between players attributes and real effects in ME. 

[Marko1989]

2 hours ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

Even if I tried played with less and low cross, more than half of my team goals are header. (and also goals from AI are header for a good half). My best scorer is my Trequartista in wide left position. He scored 12 header. And even if ha a very good jumping attributes (14), his header attributes is 2 that is very low even in a poor league as Hungarian one.

This ME version make all player like Bierhoff/Klose. You can have a striker with 20 finishing and he will need at least 5 good chance to score, while a player with 2 header will need 3 header at max to score. 
 

to compare with real life stats, in the last premier the top 3 team in headed goals are: Liverpool 19, Everton 16 and Burnley 12., That is 22%, 36% and 28%.  The best player are Jimenez, VanD and Woods with 5. and all have good header stat in FM20.

In this FM20 there is too much difference between players attributes and real effects in ME. 

Hey man, but patch notes say that evrything is fine, and positive reviews and high number of sales say that you are wrong, the game is awesome. 

[anagain]

3 hours ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

Even if I tried played with less and low cross, more than half of my team goals are header. (and also goals from AI are header for a good half). My best scorer is my Trequartista in wide left position. He scored 12 header. And even if ha a very good jumping attributes (14), his header attributes is 2 that is very low even in a poor league as Hungarian one.

This ME version make all player like Bierhoff/Klose. You can have a striker with 20 finishing and he will need at least 5 good chance to score, while a player with 2 header will need 3 header at max to score. 
 

to compare with real life stats, in the last premier the top 3 team in headed goals are: Liverpool 19, Everton 16 and Burnley 12., That is 22%, 36% and 28%.  The best player are Jimenez, VanD and Woods with 5. and all have good header stat in FM20.

In this FM20 there is too much difference between players attributes and real effects in ME. 

A little Google search showed me that there had been a general rise in headed goals from the 2017 season, but the last season saw a new drop. Sadly, there are no stats saved in FM for the number of goals from headers, but I do not believe half the goals are headers. I just spent 15 minutes going through all the goals from two weekends of PL football in my save. Whilst I saw goals from players whom I would not expect to score lots of headers (Bowen or Harry Kane - who doesn't actually score with his head much), there was not 50% of goals coming from headers. It was somewhere from 20% to 30%.

I will also question how you can be discussing your top scorer's headers in the Hungarian League and then go on to discuss stats from the PL. Have you looked at the PL in your game?

Only SI can probably tell us what percentage of goals come from headers in FM. I recall threads from previous seasons where stats have been discussed and someone from SI has given us correct stats. Sometimes people get an idea in their head and it cements itself there whether it is fact or not.

I personally do see a lot of headers, but I manage Swindon Town in the National League and my main striker is good with his head.

I will be quite honest and say I do not believe FM has to perfectly echo real world football. At the end of the day it is a simulation, and getting the game to be a perfect representation of football would be a hard job. Is it miles off? No, I don't believe so. I certainly don't believe the game has 50% of goals coming from headers.

At the end of the day we would all love to see FM echo real football as much as is possible, but that can't always be the case. People have to remember it is a simulation.

The game isn't broken. I can't recall having a crash or a major problem that has stopped me playing in 500 hours. The games are enjoyable when watched at comprehensive highlights level. As I have said, I personally believe crosses need work, and the number of long rangers that fly in is frustrating as hell (especially if I am on the end of it). If SI work on refining the match engine for FM21 then I will be happy. Of course, it is never a simple prospect. Changes have to be weighed up regarding whether they make things better without other areas suffering. For example, if crosses are successful more often, but this leads to a massive increase in goals scored, then that needs to be adjusted.

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by anagain

[Federico]

1 ora fa, anagain ha scritto:

I will be quite honest and say I do not believe FM has to perfectly echo real world football. At the end of the day it is a simulation, and getting the game to be a perfect representation of football would be a hard job.

At the end of the day we would all love to see FM echo real football as much as is possible, but that can't always be the case. People have to remember it is a simulation.

This is something I would like to read in bold and underlined in every marketing campaign.

The problems bump up when the big saviors of this forum come here and act like real pro-managers (pick your favourite) with the arrogance to teach us how to replicate real football.

Mind, we all love to pretend to be real managers and success with our favourite (or not) team, making real what will never be. Here's the greatness of FM and something I hope it'll never change. But what can be explained is how to understand the game (which is complex enough) and its mechanics rather then apply to it real football principles and pretend that logic is working.

[jase19]

I have only missed 1 FM/CM since like 97 or so... And I missed that due to health issues.  This next year might be one I miss because this one just lacked for me.  Is it because I'm getting older? Maybe, but I don't think so.  I always start in the lower leagues and work my way up.  One of the clubs I almost always pick has a broken reserve team.  Apparently it's a common issue, but I didn't realize it until I was years in and I didn't feel like starting over with someone else.  Why is this even an issue?  Tons of people play with lower league clubs and if you can't have a normal reserve team it's pretty much garbage.

[Lawlore]

FM stopped being an annual purchase for me around 2015- checking back on Steam, I poured about 3,500 hours into it back then, same with FM12, with those in between a bit lower. I bought and am still getting on with FM19, but it's only been 1,200 hours in two years- it's fine, but it's nothing amazing. I didn't bother taking much of a look at FM20, because of the glacial, two-steps-forwards-one-step-back way in which the series had been improving- it's mostly just a facelift and a sledgehammer to the ME which may or may not improve things.

What probably frustrates me most is the lack of FML revival. Far and away the best version of the game, and the fact that so many of the innovative things it included (fan types/club cultures, club recruitment camps- @Federico, help me out?) haven't yet seeped into the main game is a crying shame.

[Travis Bickle]

Probably. 

But I really worry the game will be messed up if they include Covid mechanics in the game (lowered spending etc). I'd really like the impact of Covid to be at a minimum in game. 

[Fieldsy]

For the first time ever, I wont be buying on release day - not until I can see that the central attacking play has been improved within the ME.

[Federico]

40 minuti fa, Lawlore ha scritto:

What probably frustrates me most is the lack of FML revival. Far and away the best version of the game, and the fact that so many of the innovative things it included (fan types/club cultures, club recruitment camps- @Federico, help me out?) haven't yet seeped into the main game is a crying shame.

And stadiums customization

That and Keane Gameworld are from looong time ago my friend! But may F.C. Highlanders and River Medway Riot live forever!

[Tiger666]

7 hours ago, Lawlore said:

FM stopped being an annual purchase for me around 2015- checking back on Steam, I poured about 3,500 hours into it back then, same with FM12, with those in between a bit lower. I bought and am still getting on with FM19, but it's only been 1,200 hours in two years- it's fine, but it's nothing amazing.

 

Same here. My interest has waned over recent years.

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by Tiger666

[Overmars]

On 05/09/2020 at 10:27, ImDaWeasel said:

Yes. Buying regardless. £30 for hundreds of hours of gameplay is a bargain every year.

The problem with this argument is that you can play the game for 500 hours and then at the end you might wish you hadn't played at all because your overall feeling and memory from those 500 hours was one of frustration and maybe even regret. I spent a lot of time playing FM20, far more time than I did playing FM19, but the frustration eventually got to me. It's probably worse that I spent more time on FM20 than FM19 because I walked away from both versions feeling a bit disappointed.

If anything, the fact that this game is so incredibly addictive puts more pressure on it to leave a good impression. The people debating whether or not to buy it next year are keenly aware of the opportunity cost associated with playing the game that goes far beyond the price of the game itself.

[anagain]

45 minutes ago, Overmars said:

The problem with this argument is that you can play the game for 500 hours and then at the end you might wish you hadn't played at all because your overall feeling and memory from those 500 hours was one of frustration and maybe even regret. I spent a lot of time playing FM20, far more time than I did playing FM19, but the frustration eventually got to me. It's probably worse that I spent more time on FM20 than FM19 because I walked away from both versions feeling a bit disappointed.

If anything, the fact that this game is so incredibly addictive puts more pressure on it to leave a good impression. The people debating whether or not to buy it next year are keenly aware of the opportunity cost associated with playing the game that goes far beyond the price of the game itself.

That makes no logical sense whatsoever.

Why play 500 hours if you don't enjoy it?

Hence, to have played that long you must have had some fun?

And, how would you know you didn't like it if you didn't play it? 

Almost makes me think you only played 500 hours just so as you could on here and say I played 500 hours of that game and it was rubbish. 🤔

[jc1]

6 minutes ago, anagain said:

That makes no logical sense whatsoever.

Why play 500 hours if you don't enjoy it?

Hence, to have played that long you must have had some fun?

And, how would you know you didn't like it if you didn't play it? 

Almost makes me think you only played 500 hours just so as you could on here and say I played 500 hours of that game and it was rubbish. 🤔

You really do spout a load of nonsense on this thread. Really cant get my head round the fact you're having a go at anyone who doesn't like FM20, you realise not everyone that plays will like it. As has been mentioned by numerous people,  winning is not a problem in the game, it's watching the horrendous ME highlights that kills the game for many.

Players unable to cross, shooting from ridiculous angles, 1v1, defenders not doing basics, too many headed goals and too many long range goals, the ME is boring. Things we used to see are almost non existent,  lobbing the keeper, overhead kicks, dribbling round the keeper and regular defence splitting passes.

[Neil Brock]

On 04/09/2020 at 22:24, kalokalitokalo said:

Successful and good are not the same thing. Which years did SI had to put a public beta in January?

That tells a lot about the quality of this edition, and stopping the bug fixing because "a lot of people is playing the game" is an atitude that needs to be punished by us the customers IMO.

This is really disappointing to read. We felt that introducing an opt-in public beta after the game was released allows our players to contribute and feedback in advance of us putting out an update. For us it was seen as a step forward in the process of amplifying our communities voice within the studio.

What we didn't necessarily expect was that people would conclude that we're only doing it because we believe the game is in such a bad state. To be clear we see the public beta as a positive thing. If the general consensus is that it's not, we just won't do it any more, which for me would be a great shame. 

[Harrison Bored]

40 minutes ago, jc1 said:

You really do spout a load of nonsense on this thread. Really cant get my head round the fact you're having a go at anyone who doesn't like FM20, you realise not everyone that plays will like it. As has been mentioned by numerous people,  winning is not a problem in the game, it's watching the horrendous ME highlights that kills the game for many.

Players unable to cross, shooting from ridiculous angles, 1v1, defenders not doing basics, too many headed goals and too many long range goals, the ME is boring. Things we used to see are almost non existent,  lobbing the keeper, overhead kicks, dribbling round the keeper and regular defence splitting passes.

Hypocrisy of you saying he's having a go when your first sentence is "You really do spout a load of nonsense on this thread".  

Personally I don't understand the people who take the time to come here and rant about how terrible the game is, but have played for 500 hours. If the match engine is THAT bad why invest that much time? Of course you're allowed to have a moan, but your point is undermined somewhat if you say the game is unplayable/boring/rubbish if you've played it for say 20 hours. That's longer than it takes to complete a lot of other games. 

[Marko1989]

2 hours ago, Harrison Bored said:

If the match engine is THAT bad why invest that much time? 

Do you even think before posting something, or you are writing your comments just to look like a good boy in front of the guys from SI here in front of the moderators? 

Why he spent 500 hours. You already know from my comments that I hate this version, and I've played it for 300+ hours, similar as him. 

That time is spent on giving this game a chance over and over, it is spent on trying to love this version of our favourite game. I understand that you are a ultra fanboy, but we should not be afraid to write a bad critic about the game, otherwise, it will not be improved. 

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by Marko1989

[jc1]

2 hours ago, Harrison Bored said:

Hypocrisy of you saying he's having a go when your first sentence is "You really do spout a load of nonsense on this thread".  

Personally I don't understand the people who take the time to come here and rant about how terrible the game is, but have played for 500 hours. If the match engine is THAT bad why invest that much time? Of course you're allowed to have a moan, but your point is undermined somewhat if you say the game is unplayable/boring/rubbish if you've played it for say 20 hours. That's longer than it takes to complete a lot of other games. 

I have yet to say  it's unplayable or rubbish, you can win leagues, cups etc  no problem, it's watching the games and the many bugs within it that's not enjoyable. Anagain has replied to every post that knocks the game like some kind of uber fan, we get he's a happy Clapper but it's too much now, if punters want to moan, they've paid their money, they're allowed. 

Have you ever thought that the guy that played 500hrs was happy winning leagues and cups but hated watching the game due to the ME,  as I said winning is fine, watching is not, I had better enjoyment playing earlier versions, this is the least I've played since I started many years ago.

Edited September 7, 2020 by jc1

[steam just is]

11 minutes ago, Marko1989 said:

Do you even think before posting something, or you are writing your comments just to look like a good boy in front of the guys from SI here in front of the moderators? 

Why he spent 500 hours. You already know from my comments that I hate this version, and I've played it for 300+ hours, similar as him. 

That time is spent on giving this game a chance over and over, it is spent on trying to love this version of our favourite game. I understand that you are a ultra fanboy, but we should not be afraid to write a bad critic about the game, otherwise, it will not be improved. 

2 hours ago, Harrison Bored said:

Hypocrisy of you saying he's having a go when your first sentence is "You really do spout a load of nonsense on this thread".  

Personally I don't understand the people who take the time to come here and rant about how terrible the game is, but have played for 500 hours. If the match engine is THAT bad why invest that much time? Of course you're allowed to have a moan, but your point is undermined somewhat if you say the game is unplayable/boring/rubbish if you've played it for say 20 hours. That's longer than it takes to complete a lot of other games. 

If you don’t like someone’s comment Harrison why invest your time insulting it rather than ignoring it.

FM is still the best game of its type on the market, hence why me and others have played it for so long. But it’s a burger when SI used to make steaks. The ME is a dud, it’s for the best that people who feel that way express it. That’s what drives change.

[PinballFury]

Will anyone be buying fm 21?   It's a Yes from me.  Coventry being promoted to championship is a added bonus.  So am looking forward to a very tough challenge in football manager 2021.  Regarding the match engine in fm 2020 well nothing is perfect.   

[themadsheep2001]

Please cut the sniping at each other out, thanks.

[rdbayly]

I’ll probably purchase it due to my love of the football management genre rather than loyalty to FM series itself. 

The match day experience has been an unmitigated disaster for two consecutive releases. The game feels more and more divorced from the sport it simulates. This is a big problem.

Edited September 7, 2020 by rdbayly

[ImDaWeasel]

22 hours ago, Overmars said:

The problem with this argument is that you can play the game for 500 hours and then at the end you might wish you hadn't played at all because your overall feeling and memory from those 500 hours was one of frustration and maybe even regret. I spent a lot of time playing FM20, far more time than I did playing FM19, but the frustration eventually got to me. It's probably worse that I spent more time on FM20 than FM19 because I walked away from both versions feeling a bit disappointed.

If anything, the fact that this game is so incredibly addictive puts more pressure on it to leave a good impression. The people debating whether or not to buy it next year are keenly aware of the opportunity cost associated with playing the game that goes far beyond the price of the game itself.

Zero frustration, zero regret and zero disappointment from playing thousands of hours worth over the 20 or so years. Are some years better than others? Ofcourse but it still doesn't take away from that year's experience. Every year is different, for better or worse, which is far better than playing the exact same game for the past 5 or 6 years like FIFA.

SI have never let me down with an edition so much that I would even think about walking away for a year or two. This years one I can't see being any different.

[Harrison Bored]

19 hours ago, Marko1989 said:

Do you even think before posting something, or you are writing your comments just to look like a good boy in front of the guys from SI here in front of the moderators? 

Why he spent 500 hours. You already know from my comments that I hate this version, and I've played it for 300+ hours, similar as him. 

That time is spent on giving this game a chance over and over, it is spent on trying to love this version of our favourite game. I understand that you are a ultra fanboy, but we should not be afraid to write a bad critic about the game, otherwise, it will not be improved. 

 

Hate to break it to you kid, but pretty sure the development team aren't sitting around a table saying "Marko1989 said the match engine is bad, so we'd better pull the stops out for the next version". And even if they were, there would be a knock on the door from the money men saying "ah but it's okay though, as he still bought the game and played it for 300 hours".  

Back to the OP, will I buy FM21? It depends. If there's other games out at the same time which I'm enjoying then I won't necessarily rush to do so. Likewise if I'm unsure I'll try the demo to see if it's improved from FM20. I stopped playing FM20 a while back and only check these forums out occasionally to see if there's any news. Apologies if that doesn't fit some posters' narrative of everyone being either a 'fanboy' or a critic. 

[JR866Gunner]

Every year I say I may not get it and every year I cant help it! 

One thing I would like to see though as my laptop isnt exactly the newest out there is have the 3D match view be a bit more flexible in that there was a time whereby you could enable the crowds, the stadium and you could even enable/disable the background scenery which I do think my laptop would cope better with being able to have either stadium only or the crowd and simply switch off backgrounds of houses and factories... please SI make it so! my laptop would be really thankful! 

[iwillfinishaseason]

I don't think I will rush out to buy it. Partly because I don't get the time I used to for playing it but because I read so much on here about the match engine as well as seeing things myself that I think I'll wait a bit and see how it goes. For me, the match engine caused more debate than any other topic so I think the focus should be on that first and foremost to ensure that going forward, we have a solid engine that plays well as I don't think another year of how it has been will help at all. 

It's not an easy task at all and nobody thinks it really is.