Position/Role/Duty training and tactical familiarity

[hxp]

I recently learned that you have to train players in the exact position, role and duty that you're playing them in, for them to reach full tactical familiarity.

My training approach has always been different than that. I always trained players in a Position/Role/Duty which was best for their developement. For example, if i had a Central Defender with poor technique, first touch and passing i would train him as a BPD even if i wasn't using him as such, or if i had an old player i would give him a more physical training schedule such as Box-to-Box, Roaming Playmaker etc. This obviously led to low tactical familiarity, which i didn't think much of before.

My question now is, is it worth it to train players in the exact P/R/D you're playing them in for full tactical familiarity or is it better to use schedules to most efficiently train their attributes?

[Brighton123]

I've found this as well in this years game and I'm not sure it's very realistic. Using the OP's example, if my CD is set to train as a CD-Defend because I want to improve his defending skills, but actually played him every week as a BPD, I'd expect his tactical familiarity to become full as a BPD. He would play every week as BPD and would also train as a BPD in every match preparation session. 

I also have an issue how much tactical familiarity changes when you change the role of a player. A player could have full familiarity on BWM-S, but change that to B2B or CM-S and it drops to the minimum familiarity despite the players attributes being perfect for the 'unfamiliar' but  similar role to BWM. 

I have a full back who's trained on FB-A, change their role in my to Support and familiarity decreases to 60/70%. Is that realistic? Team in real life will approach games differently, sometimes changing tactics and use of players multiple times within a game but I doubt anyone would say their familiarity would be 50/75%. 

I think the settings around this are far to sensitive, especially for something that's only really been introduced this year?

[Guest]

Check here

 

[Brighton123]

Thanks for the link. It doesn't quite answer my question around familiarity though. 

So if I train a player in 'position' rather than 'individual' role, will they be familiar with a wide range of roles, e.g FB-a/s/d & WB -a/s/d, rather than just the single position I'm training them in, e.g FB-a?

[Guest]

If you have Wing Back in your tactic, he will train as Wing Back (player position). Tactical familiarity can be achieved without adding X player as Wing Back individual role training. There is two ways. 

[Guest]

Having read again the topic from Rashidi, you are trying something very special and complex.

1st Q: Does your AM take care of training? 

 

[Rashidi]

2 hours ago, Brighton123 said:

Thanks for the link. It doesn't quite answer my question around familiarity though. 

So if I train a player in 'position' rather than 'individual' role, will they be familiar with a wide range of roles, e.g FB-a/s/d & WB -a/s/d, rather than just the single position I'm training them in, e.g FB-a?

What you want is to get a player to be familiar with position. When it comes to role familiarity, this is determined in game by his attribute spread. However if you are playing a certain way some attributes may be more preferable than others. I just spent a few weeks on Twitch showing people how you could play ANYONE out of position and still get good results. I used Neymar as a libero and Mbappe as an IWB and they still turned in man of the match performances. Ultimately its a question of how well you know your own system.

50 minutes ago, Cadoni said:

Having read again the topic from Rashidi, you are trying something very special and complex.

1st Q: Does your AM take care of training? 

 

I have a save on Twitch atm where there are two managers in one save, as an experiment and used to help people understand tactics more effectively. With one team, the assistant manager and the director of football are in charge of everything and all the "user manager" does is instant result each match with a tactic. In the last two seasons, user made tactics (ie. from the viewers who come to the stream) have won the champions league or been undefeated in their leagues all season. So yes the assistant manager can still handle training on his own. In my own personal save on twitch, I do my own training. And you will see how I simplify it further (cos I am very lazy when I am streaming).

[Rober82]

25 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

What you want is to get a player to be familiar with position. When it comes to role familiarity, this is determined in game by his attribute spread. However if you are playing a certain way some attributes may be more preferable than others. I just spent a few weeks on Twitch showing people how you could play ANYONE out of position and still get good results.

I agree with this. Do you find it necessary at all to try and improve role familiarity? As long as the attributes for the role are there they play well for me anyways. I have also not seen much improvement over years when doing this for a role. I am now talking about those players who do this thinking it is needed to get better (greener) in the role.
(attribute increases from training in role side.)

As we have tried, positional familiarity comes anyways trough playing in position, and after a while playing in it, a player also trains in playing position if left without a selected role.

[Mitja]

Does training a player in playing position increases familiarity in all roles or you need to train every specific role you want him to play?

[Mitja]

Come on guys I'm sure someone knows to answer the above. I don't want to loose precious time in training ground to find out training in position doesn't improve role position duty at all. 

[CARRERA]

2 hours ago, Mitja said:

Come on guys I'm sure someone knows to answer the above. I don't want to loose precious time in training ground to find out training in position doesn't improve role position duty at all. 

It doesn’t 

[Rashidi]

On 03/12/2021 at 17:24, Mitja said:

Does training a player in playing position increases familiarity in all roles or you need to train every specific role you want him to play?

There is no such thing as ROLE familiarity. There is only POSITIONAL familiarity. A players PRD familiarity improves because he has gained positional familiarity, the attributes required for that specific role and familiarity with the duty. So a player can never gain full PRD for all roles in a position because that does not make sense, because it would mean that he has the attributes to play all the roles there equally well.

[Mitja]

6 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

There is no such thing as ROLE familiarity. There is only POSITIONAL familiarity. A players PRD familiarity improves because he has gained positional familiarity, the attributes required for that specific role and familiarity with the duty. So a player can never gain full PRD for all roles in a position because that does not make sense, because it would mean that he has the attributes to play all the roles there equally well.

Ok thanks but how to play someone in different roles and duties without loosing those already trained? Train different role&duty or train position?

[Rashidi]

I don't understand what your question actually means.

What will they lose? A player does not lose positional familiarity unless its a recent position he has learned. A players attributes develop over time based on the role  you are training them in and any general training the team is doing. 

Just play them in whatever role you want them to play in. Look at their attributes and choose, if you don't know what roles they should play in then ask the assistant manager, he can help you.

 

[CARRERA]

1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

There is no such thing as ROLE familiarity.

Why is there a role familiarity bar then? Familiarity does also have nothing to do with attributes they are just about how good a player can possibly fulfill that role. 

Edited December 4, 2021 by CARRERA

[Mitja]

There's Position/Role/Duty bar in TACTIC FAMILIARITY LEVELS. And usually it's the hardest one to achieve good fluidity. If player is not trained enough it says that player's lack of familiarity with formation is impacting team's tactical cohesion. And I'm quite sure it does impact.

[Rashidi]

1 hour ago, CARRERA said:

Why is there a role familiarity bar then? Familiarity does also have nothing to do with attributes they are just about how good a player can possibly fulfill that role. 

Its not role familiarity its role suitability

[Rashidi]

32 minutes ago, Mitja said:

There's Position/Role/Duty bar in TACTIC FAMILIARITY LEVELS. And usually it's the hardest one to achieve good fluidity. If player is not trained enough it says that player's lack of familiarity with formation is impacting team's tactical cohesion. And I'm quite sure it does impact.

I am not going to argue with you guys, its positional familiarity and role suitability, you can accept my explanation or continue asking questions. The devs will give you the same answers too. I think it was FM20 when they dropped references to role familiarity. A player will become more suitable in a role if attributes improve over time, which is why its easier for people to just train them in the role their tactic is set for.  Someone keeps explaining that every year, its annoying I know. I just wish SI would change that bar since they dropped those references.

[Genésio Nunes]

 

Position/role/duty (STCL/DLF/S), Accomplished. What is that?

 

Not similar to the suitability, as you can see represented by stars.

[CARRERA]

6 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Its not role familiarity its role suitability

I don’t know, maybe we are talking about different things so I picked up a screenshot from google. That value doesn’t have anything to do with attributes. And it changes very quickly within a few matches depending on the role that is trained

[fc.cadoni]

Will playing in an unfamiliar role help learn that role faster?

In short, yes. The more they play there, the more the attributes adjust to the requirements of the role, and as they should be training in the same role too, they become exposed to it on a daily basis. There is no set timeline for how long it can take for a player to learn. Instead, it depends on familiarity with the position, the quality of the coaching staff, the similarity of the positions and roles to those they can already play (a centre-back could learn to play full-back roles quicker than a striker role, for example), and what position and role they’re set to play in training. The more of those criteria that are matched successfully, the better chance they stand of learning it in a quicker period of time.

 

 

[fc.cadoni]

From manual:

A maximum of three Tactics can be worked on at any one time; the Primary Trained Tactic benefits from 60% of the contribution towards the team’s Tactical Familiarity, with the other two each gaining 20%. Familiarity rises and falls depending on the team and player instructions set in a tactic and is remembered across all tactics. For example, if a player is tasked with Short Passing in all three tactics, the Familiarity will be higher in that particular regard, which contributes towards the overall score when extrapolated across all players and instructions.

====

 

[Mitja]

2 minutes ago, fc.cadoni said:

Will playing in an unfamiliar role help learn that role faster?

In short, yes. The more they play there, the more the attributes adjust to the requirements of the role, and as they should be training in the same role too, they become exposed to it on a daily basis. There is no set timeline for how long it can take for a player to learn. Instead, it depends on familiarity with the position, the quality of the coaching staff, the similarity of the positions and roles to those they can already play (a centre-back could learn to play full-back roles quicker than a striker role, for example), and what position and role they’re set to play in training. The more of those criteria that are matched successfully, the better chance they stand of learning it in a quicker period of time.

 

 

Obviously you and Rashidi talk about role suitability not tactical cohesion or familiarity. The first one is about player's attributes and the second thing is about player's tactical knowledge or familiarity in your tactic. Like mentality, passing style, creative freedom etc. 

[fc.cadoni]

Just now, Mitja said:

Obviously you and Rashidi talk about role suitability not tactical cohesion or familiarity. The first one is about player's attributes and the second thing is about player's tactical knowledge or familiarity in your tactic. Like mentality, passing style, creative freedom etc. 

I am not posting my opinion, but just simply quoted what the developers saying in manual. 

[Mitja]

6 minutes ago, fc.cadoni said:

I am not posting my opinion, but just simply quoted what the developers saying in manual. 

Both things you posted have very little to do with p/r/d in tactical familiarity bar. It's different thing.

[Abandex]

So we dont know the answer.....

 

[Abandex]

Le 12/05/2020 à 10:48, Brighton123 a dit :

I've found this as well in this years game and I'm not sure it's very realistic. Using the OP's example, if my CD is set to train as a CD-Defend because I want to improve his defending skills, but actually played him every week as a BPD, I'd expect his tactical familiarity to become full as a BPD. He would play every week as BPD and would also train as a BPD in every match preparation session. 

I also have an issue how much tactical familiarity changes when you change the role of a player. A player could have full familiarity on BWM-S, but change that to B2B or CM-S and it drops to the minimum familiarity despite the players attributes being perfect for the 'unfamiliar' but  similar role to BWM. 

I have a full back who's trained on FB-A, change their role in my to Support and familiarity decreases to 60/70%. Is that realistic? Team in real life will approach games differently, sometimes changing tactics and use of players multiple times within a game but I doubt anyone would say their familiarity would be 50/75%. 

I think the settings around this are far to sensitive, especially for something that's only really been introduced this year?

nobody reacts but i agree with you it's so unrealistic and to me it's a main issue... 

[kingjericho]

I get the questions being asked here, and I don't know the exact answer. But it that really important? I train my players in the role they play in the tactic because I want their attributes to improve according to the role they play. As long as they're adapting to the club (if they are new signings) all other fields from tactic familiarity will improve so that's good enough for me.

[holidaysong]

It's important if you're using different positions and / or roles from game to game (e.g. home vs. away games).

[Rosey Palmer]

If you want to play guys different roles based on different tactics, then set up a reminder at the beginning of every month, and alternate their training back-and-forth each month between those roles, and they should maintain very high familiarity with both. (Or at least that's worked for me). 

Likewise, if you wanted to increase ballhandling characteristics for a Central Defender, you could training him as a BPD one month, then CD the next, and back-and-forth, and he'll keep high familiarity with both.

[Tgwri1s]

This topic has intrigued me for a while, and I haven't really found a proper answer. I get what Rashidi is saying, that it doesn't really matter, and I can see how it can depend on what attributes a player has for the role along with the position familiarity. But there is surely at least a little bit more to it.

Because if there wasn't, you'd expect for example a player who is Natural at the DC position at the very start of a save to have that bar maxed out in one of the 14 DC roles (or 42 if you consider that DCL and DCR are listed separately there). And same for every player in some role and duty in their natural position, or at least whatever combo of P/R/D is supposedly their most fitting. But that's not the case (although some players do have it maxed at the start, most don't), so it's not only down to the attribute spread and positional familiarity, there is something else to it. And we know this P/R/D is listed as part of the tactical familiarity trained in training sessions like Match preview.

So I'm still interested in knowing more specifics about this, and whether there may be some minute benefit from making an effort to have your team also have this "familiarity" maxed. Do players get trained in the P/R/D they are selected for in the squad or the one they have set as their focus in training - and what if they have only the "D(C) - Playing position" set as their focus, does that mean they can't increase that bar beyond however much positional familiarity goes into it?

And even if none of that has an actual effect on making the team play better, for the sake of playing a video game I want to try to increase that bar if I can, for completion's sake if nothing else. So it's a bit strange that there is no actual information on how to do it by someone from SI that explains it in more detail.

[FMSacchi]

When you play a player in the CM position as a BWM support but he's more suited to being a playmaker he might only be 3 out of 5 stars for that role and duty and therefore wouldn't be fluid in the position/role/duty and only competent. So if you then train that player for the role BWM support he will increase his suited attributes and become more fluid as time passes and become closer to 5 star for the role. He needs to be natural in all aspects of position(cm)/role(bwm)/duty(support) to be fluid. PA, CA, age etc are also valid due to growth and what not. Because the P/R/D is for the complete tactic the same thing is valid for every player and position on the field and unless you have every player 5 stars in each position, role and duty this will never be fluid.

This is my understanding of it. Don't get caught up with everything being perfect, if a playmaker with bwm attributes plays the role then he'll be xavi/vidal machine.

[Dutchy1983]

On 10/01/2022 at 06:21, Tgwri1s said:

This topic has intrigued me for a while, and I haven't really found a proper answer. I get what Rashidi is saying, that it doesn't really matter, and I can see how it can depend on what attributes a player has for the role along with the position familiarity. But there is surely at least a little bit more to it.

Because if there wasn't, you'd expect for example a player who is Natural at the DC position at the very start of a save to have that bar maxed out in one of the 14 DC roles (or 42 if you consider that DCL and DCR are listed separately there). And same for every player in some role and duty in their natural position, or at least whatever combo of P/R/D is supposedly their most fitting. But that's not the case (although some players do have it maxed at the start, most don't), so it's not only down to the attribute spread and positional familiarity, there is something else to it. And we know this P/R/D is listed as part of the tactical familiarity trained in training sessions like Match preview.

So I'm still interested in knowing more specifics about this, and whether there may be some minute benefit from making an effort to have your team also have this "familiarity" maxed. Do players get trained in the P/R/D they are selected for in the squad or the one they have set as their focus in training - and what if they have only the "D(C) - Playing position" set as their focus, does that mean they can't increase that bar beyond however much positional familiarity goes into it?

And even if none of that has an actual effect on making the team play better, for the sake of playing a video game I want to try to increase that bar if I can, for completion's sake if nothing else. So it's a bit strange that there is no actual information on how to do it by someone from SI that explains it in more detail.

I'd say of course having more familiarity with your tactical role for each player would increase performance. 
 

I usually train each player for most of pre season in the role I have in my tactic, to get them mostly familiar, then I'll train in what ever I require best for their development.

Also  training just position as you mentioned D (C) player position still increases his role familiarity just not as fast as the same role. Also I find this great for them targeting an attribute I want to increase. I feel this over a set role for training allows a greater increase to the attribute you want

[_Zee]

Here's a breakdown that hopefully illustrates the confusion between how this mechanic is being described and how it's shown in-game. It's been said that POSITIONAL FAMILIARITY and ROLE SUITABILITY are essentially "semi-permanent" contributors to the PRD rating of a player. Allegedly, the POSITIONAL FAMILIARITY does not diminish after it's been trained up to "Accomplished" (correct me if wrong) and ROLE SUITABILITY is simply a reflection of the player's key attributes for that role, shown in 5 star format. How the DUTY FAMILIARITY part factors into all of this, I'm still unclear. Pretty sure its just an extension of ROLE SUITABILITY and a further evaluation of those attributes?

But if this is the case, these are the questions being asked:
- What exactly is being trained when we see training sessions that highlight increasing the PRD rating?

- Does this imply POSITIONAL FAMILIARITY is not trained up if this PRD factor isn't listed in the training benefits?
- Does the PRD training benefit also increase the ROLE SUITABILITY ,ie the players attributes?
- Training sessions will often list specific attributes as benefiting, does the PRD benefit increase these attribute gains if they overlap?

- If POSITIONAL FAMILIARITY and ROLE SUITABILITY are supposedly always contributing to the PRD "total value", why do we see PRD values at absolute zero when they shouldn't be under these assumptions?


In the above example, the POSITIONAL FAMILIARITY is rated at "Accomplished", the 2nd highest it can be. The ROLE SUITABILITY is rated at 2.5 stars for the Advanced Playmaker role. Allegedly these are 2 of the biggest factors that go into determining what the Tactical PRD Familiarity Total is (EDIT: This has been determined to be incorrect. it's increased only by training.), so why is the value clocking in at absolute zero??

Thanks all.

Edited January 28, 2022 by _Zee

[CARRERA]

1 hour ago, _Zee said:

Here's a breakdown that hopefully illustrates the confusion between how this mechanic is being described and how it's shown in-game. It's been said that POSITIONAL FAMILIARITY and ROLE SUITABILITY are essentially "semi-permanent" contributors to the PRD rating of a player. Allegedly, the POSITIONAL FAMILIARITY does not diminish after it's been trained up to "Accomplished" (correct me if wrong) and ROLE SUITABILITY is simply a reflection of the player's key attributes for that role, shown in 5 star format. How the DUTY FAMILIARITY part factors into all of this, I'm still unclear. Pretty sure its just an extension of ROLE SUITABILITY and a further evaluation of those attributes?

But if this is the case, these are the questions being asked:
- What exactly is being trained when we see training sessions that highlight increasing the PRD rating?

- Does this imply POSITIONAL FAMILIARITY is not trained up if this PRD factor isn't listed in the training benefits?
- Does the PRD training benefit also increase the ROLE SUITABILITY ,ie the players attributes?
- Training sessions will often list specific attributes as benefiting, does the PRD benefit increase these attribute gains if they overlap?

- If POSITIONAL FAMILIARITY and ROLE SUITABILITY are supposedly always contributing to the PRD "total value", why do we see PRD values at absolute zero when they shouldn't be under these assumptions?


In the above example, the POSITIONAL FAMILIARITY is rated at "Accomplished", the 2nd highest it can be. The ROLE SUITABILITY is rated at 2.5 stars for the Advanced Playmaker role. Allegedly these are 2 of the biggest factors that go into determining what the Tactical PRD Familiarity Total is, so why is the value clocking in at absolute zero??

Thanks all.

Tactical PRD has nothing to do with role suitability or positional suitability.

it simply is about how good the player will carry out their responsibilities within your tactical construct. A low value will negatively affect your tactical cohesion.

There is no rocket science behind it. It is the more the better and very easy to achieve. 

[Rashidi]

2 hours ago, _Zee said:

If POSITIONAL FAMILIARITY and ROLE SUITABILITY are supposedly always contributing to the PRD "total value", why do we see PRD values at absolute zero when they shouldn't be under these assumptions?

Ok I think people are overcomplicating what is a simple concept. The issue here is that people want clarity on the algorithm that displays the PRD value. 

In your example that can happen for a variety of reasons.

1. A player needs to play in the position chosen for a significant amount of time, once he is familiar with the position it goes up.

2. Duty familiarity is a subset of Role Suitability. A player needs a certain spread of attributes for him to be suitable to the role and then for specific duties a player also needs attributes for said duty. Its pretty easy to find out what these are by just going to training and specifying the role and duty to be trained.

If a player is played in a position for a significant amount of time but his attributes for such said role/duty are insufficient, his PRD bar will not fill up till he gains the attributes for that task.

There is a weightage of importance on that bar for position role and duty, I am unfamiliar with the exact algorithm but I guarantee that my explanation is 100% accurate. Basically like @CARRERAsaid if the player is low at PRD he may have issues.

[_Zee]

On 21/01/2022 at 21:33, CARRERA said:

Tactical PRD has nothing to do with role suitability or positional suitability.

it simply is about how good the player will carry out their responsibilities within your tactical construct. A low value will negatively affect your tactical cohesion.

There is no rocket science behind it. It is the more the better and very easy to achieve. 

Thanks for clearing up that Role Suitability and PRD Familiarity have absolutely nothing to do with one another.


I'll add that it's becoming more and more clear that the training schedule is the most important factor I've seen influence any attempts at increasing the PRD Familiarity bar. I'm sure playing your players in game contributes as well, but no more than a single day's worth of training. Making sure to select training sessions that mention increasing PRD Familiarity is really the only effective thing I've found thus far.

I'm finding that means it's incredibly important to make sure you have your match-day lineup set as early in the week as possible, and always update it ASAP after you know a change is needed. Because the game determines who gains PRD Familiarity by who is placed on the field in your Tactics screen when you run the training sessions for that day.  (edit: turns out it doesn't work that way)

Edited January 24, 2022 by _Zee

[Andrew Marines]

16 ore fa, _Zee ha scritto:

Because the game determines who gains PRD Familiarity by who is placed on the field in your Tactics screen when you run the training sessions for that day.

Can you get proof about this? I know individual training and training schedule help a lot but this is something i've never seen by the game(and i analyze all my training schedules)

[nully29]

20 hours ago, _Zee said:

Because the game determines who gains PRD Familiarity by who is placed on the field in your Tactics screen when you run the training sessions for that day.

While I don't know for sure how it works, this would make no sense unless the training is set to Playing position. And even then it still wouldn't make much sense. Players are set to train certain role/position/duty and should be gaining familiarity on that R/P/D.

[CARRERA]

8 hours ago, nully29 said:

Players are set to train certain role/position/duty and should be gaining familiarity on that R/P/D.

Yes that’s how it works

[gard_86]

I really don't get this. All "experts" are saying there is no such thing as role/duty familiarity and that you should put players individual prd training to the attributes you want to improve and that this is the ONLY benefit from individual prd training.

This cannot be correct. I have been playing Lucca as Target Forward(Attack in almost all his matches (he plays almost every match) yet he has zero tactical familiarity for the prd. The reason is that I have put him on "Complete Forward/Attack" for his individual training to improve more stats and maybe get him to become a good CF in the future. In other words, you have to put your players on individual prd regimes that fit the prd you are playing them in or else you will lose tactical fluidity. Are you guys saying this doesn't matter? This is really confusing...

 

EDIT: I also have match preparation training before every match. This obviously only trains the prd selected in individual training.

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by gard_86

[fc.cadoni]

How to gain PRD as Target Forward if you train him as Complete Forward? 

[gard_86]

2 hours ago, fc.cadoni said:

How to gain PRD as Target Forward if you train him as Complete Forward? 

That's my point. Why is everybody going around saying that the only thing individual training affects is the stats? "There is no such thing as Role/Duty familiarity"?

 

If PRD Tactical Familiarity is only affected by individual training, then you should only be training the player in the prd you use him as, right?

[_Zee]

Yep, they will only gain PRD familiarity in the PRD you've specifically selected in their training page. (I'm still unclear what this means when you leave it on the non-specific default. Does the auto-selection change if the player is in a different PRD for each tactic?)
In addition, they will only gain PRD familiarity if you run PRD increasing training sessions or play them in matches.

If you change your tactics formation and/or the PRD locations/roles of an existing tactic, the player has to train their PRD-bar for that tactic from scratch again, separately.
Even if the P-R-D is identical between tactics. All 3 tactics are tracked separately for PRD-bar completion.

The implication of this I've found, is that it is very unwise to try and ask a player to play multiple roles, or even differing duties when training them in multiple tactics for the first time. This is mostly relevant for new signings that are completely unfamiliar with all 3 of your tactics, and if you wanted them playing different PRD's in each tactic.
If your goal for this player is "fill the PRD for each tactic ASAP", make sure the PRD for the player is the same between all your tactics. Once a PRD familiarity bar is filled for a given tactic, you can change the PRD for that tactic to something totally different if you want. As far as I can tell, as long as you don't change the Tactic layout, they won't lose PRD familiarity even for a completely different PRD and formation.
- - For example, - -  you can have a player be PRD full as a Inverted Winger in the AM(L) position for Tactic(1), and then start training up their PRD for a different Tactic(2) where they play as a Wide Midfielder in the M(L) position. You would have to set their training to Wide Midfielder in the M(L) position, but the PRD progress made in the already existing Tactic(1) - Inverted Winger as AM(L) - would be maintained.

This last little bit is just my random opinion - The lack of "familiarity carryover" that exists even when changing only the duty of a position/role seems overly restrictive in my opinion. There's absolutely no bleed-over in familiarity and there should be SOME if position and role remain identical.

Edited February 1, 2022 by _Zee

[Mitja]

@_Zee

Very impressive findings. But I'll need to read it over and over again to see what you mean. Please can you be more specific maybe try write it down with examples. At the moment I'm seeing PRD increasing without training them in that specific PRD. Can't say I really understand what is going on here. 

[gard_86]

8 hours ago, _Zee said:

Yep, they will only gain PRD familiarity in the PRD you've specifically selected in their training page. (I'm still unclear what this means when you leave it on the non-specific default. Does the auto-selection change if the player is in a different PRD for each tactic?)
In addition, they will only gain PRD familiarity if you run PRD increasing training sessions or play them in matches.

If you change your tactics formation and/or the PRD locations/roles of an existing tactic, the player has to train their PRD-bar for that tactic from scratch again, separately.
Even if the P-R-D is identical between tactics. All 3 tactics are tracked separately for PRD-bar completion.

The implication of this I've found, is that it is very unwise to try and ask a player to play multiple roles, or even differing duties when training them in multiple tactics for the first time. This is mostly relevant for new signings that are completely unfamiliar with all 3 of your tactics, and if you wanted them playing different PRD's in each tactic.
Make sure the PRD for the player is the same between the tactics, UNLESS they've already gained PRD familiarity for the differing PRD role. As far as I can tell, as long as you don't change the Tactic layout, they won't lose PRD familiarity even for a completely different PRD and formation. So you can have a player be PRD full as a Inverted Winger in the AM(L) position for one tactic, and then start training up their PRD for a different tactic where they play as a Wide Midfielder in the M(L) position. You would have to set their training to Wide Midfielder in the M(L) position, but the PRD progress made in the already existing Inverted Winger as AM(L) would be maintained.

The lack of "familiarity carryover" that exists even when changing only the duty of a position/role seems overly restrictive in my opinion. There's absolutely no bleed-over in familiarity and there should be SOME if position and role remain identical, imo.

This makes sense! Thanks for that.

Just got an answer from WorkTheSpace on youtube, and he says that players can get familiarity from just playing in the prd without the individual training, but that it may take seasons... I am yet to see that this is correct.

[_Zee]

4 hours ago, gard_86 said:

This makes sense! Thanks for that.

Just got an answer from WorkTheSpace on youtube, and he says that players can get familiarity from just playing in the prd without the individual training, but that it may take seasons... I am yet to see that this is correct.

That matches what I've experienced. It feels like a single match day is equivalent to about 1 balanced day's worth of training as far as PRD-filling goes.

@Mitja - Sorry mate, I know it's hard to explain via text. And I'm still not 100% on how it all works yet either. All I can say is keep playing with it in-game and experiment. If you have any specific questions I'll do my best to answer them.

[Jack722]

Interesting discussion. It's something I've been trying to figure out lately.

I used to always train players in a role that I thought would best suit their long term development, but lately I've changed to the role they play in my tactic, and the bar has reached full and we're on a really nice run of form (whether that's related idk)

Since formation has no effect on familiarity (subbing in a centreback for a striker in a switch from 442 ->541 won't cause the bar to drop) I believe training players in their roles is the equivalent of "training" formation. Although I do agree that it's too sensitive , for example I believe an APa should have a large overlap with an APs (role) and a BWMs should have a large overlap with a Cms (duty).

I've also had moments where a player is fluid in PRD familiarity for a role , but is awkward in their actual ability to play that position, while also having the other way round. This begs the question which way round is better/worse and what effects it has on team performance. 

[Jack722]

On 26/01/2022 at 21:12, gard_86 said:

I really don't get this. All "experts" are saying there is no such thing as role/duty familiarity and that you should put players individual prd training to the attributes you want to improve and that this is the ONLY benefit from individual prd training.

This cannot be correct. I have been playing Lucca as Target Forward(Attack in almost all his matches (he plays almost every match) yet he has zero tactical familiarity for the prd. The reason is that I have put him on "Complete Forward/Attack" for his individual training to improve more stats and maybe get him to become a good CF in the future. In other words, you have to put your players on individual prd regimes that fit the prd you are playing them in or else you will lose tactical fluidity. Are you guys saying this doesn't matter? This is really confusing...

 

EDIT: I also have match preparation training before every match. This obviously only trains the prd selected in individual training.

 

What does the feint green bar mean?

[CARRERA]

1 hour ago, Jack722 said:

What does the feint green bar mean?

That’s your teams average