Will my team be able to pass their way to world domination?

[Djuicer]

This will cover the four most advanced roles in the team. I will show some players and PPM’s that I think can be useful.

First we can start with this quote from Thierry Henry about Pep Guardiola, again “My job is to bring you to the last third; your job is to finish it. The last third was freedom for us”.

 

The first thing I was focused on was to get Kylian Mbappe to play as a second striker. I had a given role model in AC Milan’s Kaká, who in my opinion was a good playmaker but a truly awesome runner. Fantastic at timing his runs into the box and boy he was as fast, as fast as they come. Fair enough I gave this an honest shot, the vision I had was something like this:

F9
Ws-SS-Ws
REG-VOLs
IWBs-BPDd-BPDd-IWBs
SKs

I thought that would create sufficient movement for the Shadow striker to shine. Also with two wingers the intention was to stretch the opposition's defence, creating even more space. However I was wrong, it did not work. Mbappe sat on 2 goals in the league by Boxing day and well, we were still winning but that was despite my tactic rather than thanks to it. So it went back to the drawing board and the deepest 6 changes were discussed in PT9.

 

The offensive quartet was also put under scrutiny and the new roles will be discussed. This system does not have the TI to press more urgently, but the front four has pressure more selected as a PI to create a split block. The four “forwards” press to win back the ball, the other six is a bit less aggressive and will sit and steer opponents at times too.

 

On the right I kept the same role as in the example above, or well I started like that, after a while I felt more variation was needed and the regular winger was scratched. An Inverted winger with a supporting duty was introduced. My expectations from this player is that he will keep width, do some crossing. Put in a goal or two and also make some good assist at times. The main job for this player is to play his part, taking part in the pressing game and always offering an outlet. Summarized what I expect from the IWs is this.
· Add “secondary scoring”.
· Create chances.
· Offer width
· Be loyal to our pressing game and JDP basic principles.

With the ball the IWs often runs inside, making long diagonal runs carrying the ball with him. Working more as a creator than a scorer. While the inside forward on the other hand is more of a scorer than a creator.
Role: Inverted winger support - IWs.
PI: Press more, get further forward, stay wider.
Mentality: Positive.

For this role I use three (4) players. All play differently, have different strengths and also PPM’s that do set them apart. I will show the tridente most used here, even if Bernardo often plays AM too. The first one I will show is the player being most of a traditional winger. He is a wonderkid you have seen a few times before if you follow this saga. Antonio Carlos has developed his skills and the personality grows every now and then too. Those are his PPM’s that make him act as a classic winger more than the others.
· Runs with the ball down right.
· Knocks the ball past opponents.
· Plays one twos.

A little something from Antonio Carlos.

Next up will be Raheem Sterling, earlier he played on the left but now he has been “demoted” to the right side of the pitch. As I said before Sterling is an archetypal inside forward, quick, agile, fantastic off the ball. hence he will play the inside winger role a tad less creative and a bit more focus on getting himself in goalscoring situations. Sterling is ambitious and has 13 determination.
· Gets into opposition area.
· Get forward whenever possible.
· Plays one twos.
· Cuts inside from left wing.

The third is someone I described as the modern playmaker, Bernardo Silva. Sublime technique. Good vision, smart, and also a really hard worker and a tank that never seems to dry up. Do I have to add that he is an model citizen with 18 determination?
· Dictates tempo.
· Comes deep to collect the ball.
· Plays one twos.
· Tries to switch the ball to the other side of the pitch.
· Uses outside of the boot.
And some more PPM’s but those are some of the best for making him very creative and unpredictable for the opponents.

 

Here you can see Silva as IWs starting this move that involves quite a few players and ends up with the left sided player finding the net.

Last here I will show the one who’s best, but more often play in another role and position. Speedster, superstar, machine. Kylian Mbappe. He is resolute with 15 determination. Those traits with his attributes makes him a great runner with the ball, a legendary dribbler I would say.
· Runs with the ball down right.
· Cuts inside from both wings.
· Plays one twos.
· Tries tricks.
· Uses outside of the boot.
· Runs with the ball often.

 

This is a little clip showing a great goal with the left sided player finding the IWs in a great position right after a throw in taken by WBa Alphonso Davies.

As for goal scoring threats: When forwards attack from wide to inside, they are far more dangerous. Sir Alex Ferguson.

@Rashidi described the differences between IW and IF like this: The best way to describe this role is to compare how Leroy Sane and Mohamad Salah play in real life. Leroy Sane is a bit more creative and works within a system that seeks to overload one side of the pitch, thereby creating space on the other. Mo Salah, is more of an inside forward whose principle purpose is to drive at defences and score goals. Both roles start from wider positions, but both play differently on FM.

I suppose this is clues that gives the left attacking midfielders role away, if not. There will be an inside forward occupying this slot. My expectations from this player is that he is my main goal threat. It comes with two available duties and the differences are as follows:
· Support: Will cut in diagonally into the space behind the defence and play through balls or take long shots if the opportunity arises.
· Attack: Will run directly at the defence with the option of shooting, passing or crossing as he moves into the final third.

To be frank the attacking duty sounds like the logical option. With that in mind it's maybe a bit strange but I went with the support alternative, but if you consider that the player behind is supposed to overlap the IF and is Alphonso Davies he will do that a lot due to him being who he is, and having the attacking wing back as his role. This is a part of the bigger strategy to maximize the potential of Salida Lavolpiana. Lastly I did not want to have two attacking duties on the same side. We still need balance in the team, but also in the formation. Summarized what I expect from the IFs is this.
· Reliable source of goals.
· Run at defences.
· Try some killer balls.
· Add flair but still contribute to the teams collaborated pressing game.

 

Considering the supporting rather than the attacking duty I added some PIs and counted on the players attributes and PPMs to do the rest.
Role: Inside forward support - IFs.
PI: Press more, get further forward.
Mentality: Very attacking.

 

First one out here is Kylian Mbappe who I showed already in this post. I will not show the SS of him again but his PPM’s might be noteworthy.
· Runs with the ball down right.
· Cuts inside from both wings.
· Plays one twos.
· Tries tricks.
· Uses outside of the boot.
· Runs with the ball often.

Mbappe getting this one due to being in the right space at the right time.

Again Mbappe getting a sweet pass, this time from Lewis Cook as the REG.

 

Sterling is here fielded as the IFs, he does this and creates a beauty.

 

Second one here is Gelson Gomes, someone I earlier said this about: portugese wonderkid and heir to Cristano Ronaldo. Gelson Gomes (20yo newgen/regen). Excellent dribbler, quick, strong. The sky's the limit for this player who is just starting his second season in the premier league and averaging a point per game this season. Now he is even better, and has become a perfectionist with 18 determination. He looks like this and has those PPM’s.
· Runs with the ball through the centre
· Gets forward whenever possible.
· Cuts inside from left wing.

 

A nice long pass by Savoldi, IFs Mbappe takes full advantage and does what he does best.

In the centre of the pitch I wanted a player to be able to do a lot, I also felt the need for someone who could link the deeper six with the further four of our players. In the deeper section that responsibility was given upon the Regista. Here I wanted more of a normal role, less specialized. Additionally the main conductor was already in place, which is something I'm very pleased with and it also works within the settings of this by @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!(I have quoted this before but it's something I find really useful).

1. My playmaker should have a positive mentality; most commonly in the 10-12 range but I'll go up to around 15.
 -I hate having a cautious playmaker playing backwards and sideways passes.

2. My holding midfielder should have the same mentality as my centre backs for defensive compactness.

3. My playmaker should ideally be my deepest midfielder, optimising passing options ahead of him.
#3 is italic as it's most negotiable.
Sometimes meeting #1 and #2 means I have to play a holding midfielder behind my playmaker (in more Structured systems).

For me the mentality which I desire is balanced as the lowest. Positive is preferable, higher than positive will be too adventurous for a possession based game in my opinion. Risk must be taken to unlock defences, but take too much risk and the possession will be lost too often. The holding player in my system is the HB who is at a cautious mentality. Which is exactly the same as the CDd and the BPDd. The playmaker is regista on positive mentality. (Disclaimer@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! plays on FM18 which has diffrent mentalitys)

 

Rodri, here as Half-back finds IFs (Gomes) with this beauty.

So yes, where were we? I want to use any playmaker here, hence no trequartista, no advanced playmaker or enganche. The shadow striker was the initial project but it was not something I could really work out how to implement in this style and formation. Now we just have the regular attacking midfielder left.  Due to me demanding him to link the forward quartet two the six deeper players he needs to be able to drop deep quite often, something that won’t happen if he is given the attacking duty because it comes with the get further forward PI locked in. My AM will therefore come with the support duty whom according to FM tends to sit in the hole, rather than get into the box.  Summarized what I expect from the AMs is this.
· Initiating the front fours press. Decide how and when they press.
· Roam around looking for space (in possession).
· Drop deep, link the front 4 with the deep 6.
· Contribute with assist, key passes and hopefully a handful of goals.

 

This space(ie the number 10 space) is often congested, me being a big team and often favoured the opposition tends to sit quite deep. To give the AMs some methods which will help him find space he is given the PI to roam from position.
Role: Attacking midfielder support - AMs.
PI: Press more, roam from position.
Mentality: Positive.

 

Here I tend to use four different players. Bernardo Silva, Dominik Szoboszlai, Rodrigo Bentacour and Gelson Gomes. Again they all offer different things to the team. Some being more like playmakers, some being more inclined to attack and someone like Bentacour is maybe the one most likely to do the job Jose Mourinho had Oscar do at Chelsea. Start the pressing, drop deep and also at times chip in with goals and assists. All players here can be found in either this post or the PT8.5 or PT9.

PPM’s that's always useful are:
· Plays one twos.
· Tries tricks.
· Tries killer balls.

For a player acting more of a goal threat:
· Runs with the ball through the centre
· Gets forward whenever possible.
· Runs with the ball often.

And if you want someone acting as playmaker, even though not being one according to the role:
· Comes deep to collect the ball.
· Tries to switch the ball to the other side of the pitch.
· Likes ball played into feet.

 

Well, just because he has developed a bit I will give you Szoloszbai again.

 

A little play ending with the AMs finding the net.

 

Now we have come to the last position of the 4-2-3-1 project. You already know which player I want to score the goals. To help the IFs making that happen we will need certain things. @Cleon talks about this. Actually he is using the same role and formation but with another duty. He states that: The supply and support are vital parts of helping someone become a goalscorer. This is what can create the movement both for the player to use and around him so it makes the opposition make a decision. This is how gaps appear for you to exploit and use to your advantage. However another big part of this is the role and duty of the player and those around him, as this will determine not only what the player does, but how the people around him behave too.

We already have for example the WBa overlapping the IFs. He can then cross, cut back or even do this.

 

On the other side (right) the WBs and IWs tandem works with overloads too but are a bit more restrictive with the risk they take. On the positive side they have more support from the Regista than what the WBa and IFs have on their side through the HB.

 

The AMs is supposed to work laterally to find space and also to help out on whichever side currently holds down the possession. It's supposed to be a utility man helping out when needed. I want him to work like this:

 

To make even more space available for the IF to run into this last role must be carefully chosen. Almost all teams we face play with low blocks. Which means there is almost no space behind for us to run into. Thus we can scratch all attacking duties from the shortlist. We also want the player to be creative, which means bye-bye to the pressing forward. Now we have complete forward, deep lying forward and the false nine. I do not want this player to work too much laterally due to the intentions of getting this movement from the AM. Here we can remove the complete forward. Now we have two roles standing. The deep lying forward tends to hold up the ball, hence being more of a physical specimen than the false nine. Who often is more of a playmaker type, playing up front. Dropping deep, with the intention of either being able to get the ball unchallenged or to get a central defender following him in this movement, something that will create space for the IF to run into. From the F9 I expect flair, dribbling, breathtaking passes and a fair amount of goals too.
 

Summarized what I expect from the F9 is this.
· Stay somewhat centrally in the field, being a clever, intelligent player. 
· Drops deep from the forward line. Leading to superiority in numbers in midfield.
· Being able to take on, and beat his man in 1on1 situations. 
· Contribute with both goals and assists to the team.

 

The only thing I have changed with the false nine is that I have instructed my player to pressure more often.
Role: False nine - F9.
PI: Press more.
Mentality: Balanced.

 

Regarding the false-nines purposes: “generating superiorities behind each line of pressure. It can be done more or less quickly, more or less vertically, more or less grouped, but the only thing that should be maintained at all times is the pursuit of superiority. Or to put it another way: create free men between the lines.” - Adin Osmanbasic for https://spielverlagerung.com/

 

I have three players that play here, Lautaro Martinez, Bernardo Silva and a new brazilian called Glaucinho. 
This is Martinez, he is a world class player. Boosting 17 determination and being professional. Except for this current drop in ability he has been fantastic, I'm certain he can regain this dropped ability soon.

This is a clip that shows Lautaro pressing perfectly, setting off a counter attack.

 

 

Bernardo has been shown before and as I said, he is a tremendously talented playmaker. Talking of false nine and the most gifted playmaker playing centrally as the forward in 4-2-3-1. @SFraser wrote this already back in 2011, but it is probably even more relevant today. “While Inside Forwards exploiting the reduced defensive cover of the flanks is nothing new and is very tactically sound, it is my view that playing a pure Striker upfront is not tactically sound.

Look at that defence and then look at the Passing/Creativity of your own Inside Forwards. Most Inside Forwards are not the ultimate playmakers of world football although they are lethal, and there is no way that a striker in the lone striker position in my 4-2-3-1 is going to get alot of supply coming directly through the middle. Having a player that is looking to peel off defenders and get into goalscoring positions here is a waste of a player. The centre is too immensely defender and the wide players are simply not going to carve open defences with epic throughballs very often.

Ofcourse you can always play Playmakers on your flanks, and sometimes I do just that, but I wanted more movement from my wide players as my CM's need options, and the average wide playmaker is not going to destroy fullbacks with speed and movement.

Indeed with the Wide Players in modern football becoming ever more like Pure Strikers in terms of actual function, it makes sense that you want a playmaker centrally to feed them into goalscoring positions. A playmaker is one of the few types of players that is going to be able to get any change out of the heart of defences like the Juventus system.

The squad numbers in my formation tell the entire story. My number 9, my striker, plays left wing and my number 10, my playmaker, plays upfront on his own. That's my tactical theory, that's my tactical development, that's my tactical evolution.” 

 

The last player out will be new newly arrived brazilian Glaucinho. Young, shapeable, and very talented. With good moulding and a bit of luck Manchester City has their central striker position covered for the next decade.

Glaucinho’s debut. Bentacour as regista serves him this. Kind of a free lunch. Glaucinho does not disappoint.

 

This leaves us with this as our front 4.

My team mentality spread looks like this:

BAL
VA-POS-POS
CAU-POS
ATT-CAU-CAU-POS
POS

And the full tactic, with the strongest 11+subs:

Fairly balanced I would say, compact and still quite on the positive side. The most penetration comes from the left, the side where I expect the most goals or assists to 
be created. Although it may be better with Silva down the right and Gomes as AM. Silva is probably better and more important there due to his tendency to switch the play. Which has a bigger effect from right to left than from centre to left.

 

Said left side in action, Davies making an overlapping run ends the move with a shot:

 

Current competition status looks like this:

 

Carabo Cup Final.
Well that's one more home and safe. Last year they got me in the semis. Now I took revenge in the final. My bad, wrong Cup. This one I got last year too.

The left side was key again. My first goal in this final. 

 

 

And again, 16 minutes later. Bernardo drives inside with the ball, making a killer of a ball. 

 

 

I'm not sure I will dig into the 4-2-3-1 any more at this point. I will probably try a new formation, and this time I will use three central defenders and (probably) two strikers.

 

I will just add results from the major games left this season, We will keep the 4-2-3-1 for the remaining games.

 

EDIT: The .fmf is now attatched. Feel free to try it out. But be aware, my team is extremly good, and players are moulded with PPMs for this. This is probably not gonna be effective for all teams or in all leagues.

Djuicer 4-2-3-1 JDP FINALmaybe.fmf

Edited May 24, 2020 by Djuicer
added .fmf

[johnstonpickle]

Awesome post!

Your methodology has become my go-to for tactical brainstorming!

 

Passing my way to glory as it stands - also 18 clean sheets!

[Djuicer]

2 hours ago, johnstonpickle said:

Awesome post!

Your methodology has become my go-to for tactical brainstorming!

 

Passing my way to glory as it stands - also 18 clean sheets!

Impressive. You are showing that this can be done with worse players.

 

Fantastic results and numbers there @johnstonpickle 

 

EDIT: Seems as its working for me too atm.

 

We will soon need a bigger cabinet here at Etihad:

Edited May 24, 2020 by Djuicer

[Djuicer]

CL semis vs PSG. 1-1 at Etihad. For the awaygame I decided to change:

HB-DMd.

REG-VOLs.
WBA - support.

IF - IWFs.

F9-PFa.

 

Due to them having Ansu Fati and Ousmane Dembele on the wings. Also having a world class midfield with Pogba and De Jong. Add Laporte, Marquinhos, Lukaku, Griezmann, Mane and you can see that they too have a VERY capable squad.

Results:

 

And the Volante finished off this move

 

Well, like last year:

Edited May 25, 2020 by Djuicer

[Zemahh]

7 minutes ago, Djuicer said:

And the Volante finished off this move

Love this role, the amount of times it ends up unmarked in and around the opposition box is unreal. Can be very hard to mark, CMs tend to just forget about him. 

[Punt]

Thank you for your hard work, DJUICER. I´m enjoying  4 - 5 - 1 with Pressing Forward ( the last one ). I would like to know which PPM´s are you teaching your players ( besides One - Two )? I know you´ve written this down in several posts but would it be asking too much to write them again in one post or in OP? I would like to know them to get the most of the gameplay this tactic can offer. Tactic already plays great and I would like to use to full potential. Thank you in advance and keep up the good work.

[Djuicer]

2 hours ago, Zemahh said:

Love this role, the amount of times it ends up unmarked in and around the opposition box is unreal. Can be very hard to mark, CMs tend to just forget about him. 

Yeah, It is a really strong role. With the right player. They need to be very good overall and over average physically to fullfill it reasonably well, but if they do. Than that and the one I displayed above will occur relativley often.

 

2 hours ago, Punt said:

Thank you for your hard work, DJUICER. I´m enjoying  4 - 5 - 1 with Pressing Forward ( the last one ). I would like to know which PPM´s are you teaching your players ( besides One - Two )? I know you´ve written this down in several posts but would it be asking too much to write them again in one post or in OP? I would like to know them to get the most of the gameplay this tactic can offer. Tactic already plays great and I would like to use to full potential. Thank you in advance and keep up the good work.

I can do that. I can collect some and make a new post with a pointer in the OP.

Do you use a "regular" 4-5-1 or more like a 4-2-3-1?

 

 

Next up is the FA Cup Final. Facing Liverpool managed by Tuchel. They usally line up in 4-4-2. Romario Baro and Florentino Luis as CMs. Sancho and a very good newgen on the wings. Trent and Robbo at wb.

 

I will change the WBs on right to fbs.

WBa on left to WBs.

HB to DMs and Reg to VOLs. 

The rest will be as usal. The goal is to overcrowd the centre and from there dictate the game.

 

Off to a good start, although A. Becker is alert.

 

But well..

 

 

CL FINAL

We started good in the CL final too, in the 7th minute Mbappe and Davies did this:

Bloody h***

 

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Djuicer

[Punt]

DJUICER, I´m using regular 451 - SK (a), WB (s), BPD (def), BPD (def), WB (s), DM (s), RPM (s), MEZ (s), IW (s), IW (s), PF (att).

[Djuicer]

34 minutes ago, Punt said:

DJUICER, I´m using regular 451 - SK (a), WB (s), BPD (def), BPD (def), WB (s), DM (s), RPM (s), MEZ (s), IW (s), IW (s), PF (att).

That seems like a good ground for nice possession football.

 

Meanwhile. Im ready for a new challange.

[Punt]

1 hour ago, Djuicer said:

That seems like a good ground for nice possession football.

 

Meanwhile. Im ready for a new challange.

It´s playing some nice football. TI´s and PI´s are the same as yours:

- WBR and WBL ( s ) : CROSS LESS OFTEN, SHOOT LESS OFTEN

- DM ( s ) : HOLD POSITION

- RPM ( s ) : MORE DIRECT PASSES, RUN WIDE WITH BALL, MOVE INTO CHANNELS

- IWR ( s ) : GET FURTHER FORWARD, STAY WIDER

- IWL ( s ) : TAKE MORE RISKS, CROSS LESS OFTEN, GET FURTHER FORWARD, STAY WIDER

- PF ( a ) : TAKE MORE RISKS, ROAM FROM POSITION

I also started training One - Two PPM for every player except DM and BPD´s and I can´t wait to see some nice passing when the players learn it. I´m interested to see what you recommend next PPM - wise. I think it would take the level of this tactic even higher. 

[Djuicer]

4 hours ago, Punt said:

It´s playing some nice football. TI´s and PI´s are the same as yours:

- WBR and WBL ( s ) : CROSS LESS OFTEN, SHOOT LESS OFTEN

- DM ( s ) : HOLD POSITION

- RPM ( s ) : MORE DIRECT PASSES, RUN WIDE WITH BALL, MOVE INTO CHANNELS

- IWR ( s ) : GET FURTHER FORWARD, STAY WIDER

- IWL ( s ) : TAKE MORE RISKS, CROSS LESS OFTEN, GET FURTHER FORWARD, STAY WIDER

- PF ( a ) : TAKE MORE RISKS, ROAM FROM POSITION

I also started training One - Two PPM for every player except DM and BPD´s and I can´t wait to see some nice passing when the players learn it. I´m interested to see what you recommend next PPM - wise. I think it would take the level of this tactic even higher. 

Yeah, I see. I think the only diffrence is LB where I used CWB. Davies was very capable. I really liked that style it created.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Djuicer

[Djuicer]

As requested by @Punt I will do a sort of brief summary of traits or PPM’s that I find useful and are adding things to our playing style.

SK 
· Tries to play out of trouble.
· Uses long throw to start counter attacks
I'm not certain the first actually does anything, but if it does it should be neat to invite pressure, with the right keeper obviously.

Full backs (wing backs).
· Runs with the ball down right/left.
· Plays 1-2.
· Get further forward.

And more situational with the right player/setup.
· Gets into the opposition area.
· Knock ball past opponents.
· Likes to switch the ball to the other flank.
· Runs with ball often.

·Hugs the line. 

Very Situational. Needs both right player and probably setup.

· Cross early.

BPD.
· Brings ball out of defense.
· Tries to play out of trouble.

Situational (ie right player/setup).
· Runs with the ball through centre.
· Get further forward.
· Tries long range passes
· Likes to switch the ball to the other flank.

CD and or midfielders with bite.
· Gets crowd going.
· Argues with the officials.
· Marks opponents tightly.

Playmakers.
· Dictates tempo.
· Pass alternating PPMs (not more than two). 
· Comes deep to collect the ball.
· Curls ball.

Situational.
· Brings ball out of defense.
· Tries to play out of trouble.
· Runs with the ball through centre/Left wing/Right wing.
· Plays 1-2.
· Runs with ball often.

· Stops play.

Running midfielders.
· Plays 1-2.
· Get further forward.

Situational.
· Gets into the opposition area.
· Knock ball past opponents.
· Likes to switch the ball to the other flank.
· Runs with ball often.
· Moves into channels

Wide players.
· Plays 1-2.

Usually one of (ie move-alternating)
· Get further forward.
· Gets into the opposition area.
· Comes deep to collect the ball.

And also one of or two of (again-PPMs which manipulate movement)
· Cuts inside from one or both wings.
· Runs with the ball through centre/Left wing/Right wing.

Situational.
· Tries tricks
· Tries to beat man repeatedly
· Knock ball past opponents.
· Likes to switch the ball to the other flank.
· Tries killer balls.
· Uses outside of the boot.
· Curls ball.

· Moves into channels

Very Situational. Needs both right player and probably setup.

·Hugs the line. 

Creative forwards.
· Plays 1-2.
· Tries killer balls.
· Comes deep to collect the ball.

Situational
· Tries tricks
· Tries to beat man repeatedly
· Plays with back towards goal.
· Runs with ball often.

Scoring forwards.
· Plays 1-2.

Situational.
· Moves into channels.
· Curls ball.
· Tries to beat offside trap.
· Knock ball past opponents.
· Shoots with power - places shots feels weak IMO in FM20.
· Tries first time shots.
· Runs with ball often.

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Djuicer

[Punt]

DJUICER, you are THE MAN! Thanks a lot.

[Djuicer]

Im at my new team, first game in the league. Using 2 strikers and 3 central defenders 

[Amazingortega]

13 hours ago, Djuicer said:

Im at my new team, first game in the league. Using 2 strikers and 3 central defenders 

Do you use AM ? Or just CM only 

[Djuicer]

7 hours ago, Amazingortega said:

Do you use AM ? Or just CM only 

No AM 

[skyline72]

2x "8"s?

[Djuicer]

2 hours ago, skyline72 said:

2x "8"s?

You can call them that . Oh well, one might be to attacking to be considered an eight I suppose.

[Djuicer]

Some thoughts if I feel my team is getting into a slump. So, if my team struggles to play as I want them too, which metods are my prefered to solve this problem?

 

• First I use the eye-test. Do I like what I see on the pitch? 

I try to find out the following - What is it that I don't like? Are we vulnerable at any particular place in our defensive shape?
How can this be fixed?

1. Swap a role or a duty?
2. Change personnel?
3. Add a body deeper down the field?
4. Lower our defensive line or line of engagement?
5. Decrease pressing intensity?
6. Too low tempo? inviting to much pressure?
7. Too high tempo? us losing control of the ball in bad areas. 

 

• The same is considered regarding attacks. Why do we not create enough? To restrictive roles? Too adventurous which make us lose possession too easily?

What could be the reason?

1. No penetration?
2. To narrow?
3. To wide?
4. Can this be changed with personel? (ex someone with good defensive attributes vs someone with more weigth on their offensive game)
5. Roles or duties?
6. Do we need more creativity? (ex AP and IW)
7. Add more players that are positioned higher?

 

• Otherwise I tend to look at role specific stats. Let's say I feel my playmaker doesn't get the ball enough, what can give me a clue if I'm on something or not? Is this actually true or is it just in my head so to speak.

A good starting point for a playmaker is where he collects the ball.

1. Passes received. Is he involved enough? And at places that I have envisioned.
2. Passes attempted. Does he try to pass enough? What do I deem is enough?
3. Key passes, is he hitting them? how many per game? What do I expect from the playmaker?
4. Chance creation, this is ofcourse pending due to formation and position of the playmaker, deployment further forward increases the pressure/demand on him to create more.

 
I have this view which I use too.

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Djuicer

[Djuicer]

I resigned a few days after the Champions league final loss. I saw some interesting clubs that would be great for this project. I wrote up a Curriculum vitae and sent it out to a few directors. In the end I was interested in two clubs, Bayern München being one of them. 

Decent facilities:

 

And the squad is impressive:

 

For me though, I felt that it would be like with Manchester City all over again, I wanted a bigger challenge. The other team I sent the CV to was not having the same quality at their facilities. 

 

The team plays in the spanish league and is still quite strong, although sitting with an ageing squad. They have amassed a total of three league titles since the year 2000 (+2 in this save). Which places them third in the title table post 2000. 

 

Their current (IRL) manager is Diego Simeone and the goal is to replicate the success he’s had with Atletico Madrid. If I can succeed to knock Real Madrid and Barcelona off their perch, it will be a great accomplishment. I will try to do it in another way though, Cholismo will be gone. Mainly through the same style as I have used before. Positional play, or well. As close to it as I can get in the ME. 

As you can see the squad have kept quite a few profiles over the years. I will try to keep many of them for mentoring and also to fill vacancies in the squad. At this club I will have to be a bit more considerate with my transfer budget.

 

First when I took over the regular building of the backroom staff started. The loyal Jesus Perez left City with me, he was followed by Kolo Toure. Rui Faria and some others were after some persuasion also willing to follow me to the spanish capital. I also strengthened the coaching team with some more names, all with good enough personalities.

 

Yes, the style. This time I will use a back three. Inspiration for this will be relatively hard to come by, but if you are willing to stretch some requirements, there will guaranteedly be enough material for me to get a stable foundation. Juventus famous back three with Barzagli, Bonucci and Chiellini. The closest a backline have come to the fame of recent years forward trios, such as Barca’s trio Messi Suarez Nemar or MSN and the real dito. Bale, Benzema and Cristiano Ronaldo. Which actually has the same shortname as the italian defensive line. BBC. The reason for this back lines sucess was that they all added something different. 

Giorgio Chiellini was ferocious. A physically imposing monster without fear, ready to throw himself in front of anything that came at him. Chiellini was also a fantastic leader of men and could really rally the troops for the last siege. Additionally he was not slow at his peak either. As he started off on the left side of the defence he was better with the ball than most remembers too. Which leads us to Leonardo Bonucci, the ball playing defender personified. Bonucci actually started out playing in the midfield. Something that you definitely can see when studying his ability on the ball. He is great at controlling the possession and hitting long accurate passes to midfielders or forwards. Often playing as a very deep playmaker. One of the greatest central defenders at resisting pressure from opponents. At times he also showed a reckless side and smashed down opponents with brutality, probably this comes from a great desire to always win. This thread's most quoted man has something to say about Bonucci too, just plain and simple “Bonucci…one of my favorite ever players”. -Pep Guardiola. That qoute alone says enough about Bonucci, what he plays like and at which level he is.

Andrea Barzagli was the last piece in that astonishing back three. This is what The Guardian wrote about him: “It’s easy to explain why Barzagli’s brilliance often goes unnoticed. He is conspicuously absent on social media and eschews the kind of demonstrativeness popular with some of his team-mates. His is a special strain of brilliance, a mastery of the defensive art that transcends statistical ratings. He may lack the grizzle and violence of Chiellini, but only because he doesn’t need it, his astute positioning rendering the last-minute tackle obsolete. As Chiellini puts it: “Andrea is our professor. He’s always in the right place at the right moment.”
Barzagli is not as refined as Bonucci, but the younger man looks comforted when paired with his more experienced team-mate. “I’ve played with many champions and I try to steal secrets from everybody,” says Bonucci. “But the player I like watching on the pitch the most is Barzagli. He’s unbeatable in one-on-ones, he’s impressive in training and he always gives 100%. Andrea is an example for everyone.”. So what did they each add to the trio?
•Barzagli
·Marking
·Composure
·Positioning.

•Bonucci
·Passing
·Ball control.
·Press resistance.

•Chiellini
·Leadership.
·Strength.
·Bravery.

Honestly, this back three was so good that I feel that it is really enough inspiration, if my defence can come close to this trios level I will be happy. The Juventus team of the CL final 14/15 looked like this except for one change. I removed a midfielder and added one central defender (Chiellini).

The #SQUAD.
What did I do with the squad? I sold some dead meat, the Oblak offer was just too good to turn down for a 33 year old keeper.

 

On the other hand we needed some more bodies. I also found that Ajax was a bit more easy to negotiate with this time around. Lieder was someone my scouts rated highly when I was at City, but then Ajax always wanted £100M+. At £53M it was still expensive, but I have faith in Lieder. Also there will be time to ease him into the team. Oblak needed replacement and it will come, I just wasn’t able to seal the deal before the deadline. A young croatian keeper from Dinamo Zagreb will arrive in January for a fee of £21M.

 

And the full squad, including ages, personalities and determination:

 

So we now know a decent amount about the current staff and group of players. As I said, Cholismo will be a distant memory. Now it's time to set up some grounds for the new era’s style.
•In possession.
·Patiently control the game, set the rhythm and pace of it. Patiently look for openings.
‣  Short passing.
‣  Lower tempo.
· Width, to stretch opponents. Make use of the whole field, more space for us.
‣   Use players that stay wider on each side of the pitch, eases switches of play, stretches opposition defences.
· Take advantage of space, use our small, intelligent and mobile players.
‣   Low crosses.
· Pass and move as a tool to get the ball moving with high speed. Suits intelligent players.
‣   Dribble less. 
· Create overloads.
‣  Using different methods to gain numerical advantages. With this advantage, create overloads with extra and/or free men, force opponents to react. Then Switch play to the other side. 
‣   False nine, a central attacker dropping to midfield for numerical superiority.
· Use half-spaces.
‣   Mezzala, the half space merchant, the inside winger. Half space addict.

•In transitions.
· Try to recover the ball quickly.
‣   Counterpress.
· Attack with pace and decisiveness.
‣  Counter.
·Disrupt and control the game.
‣  Slow down pace.

 

•Without possession.
· Press intensively.
‣  Stop the opposition to build from the back.
· Make the playing field small.
‣  High back line and engagement line.

(Here there is no lower tempo nor urgent pressing, but it seems to be working anyway, I will keep this in mind though if I feel we are deviating too far away from our Jugo De Posicion “template”.)

 

•Shape (formation).
· Formation will have three central defenders. Like Cruyff's Barcelona.
‣   3 at the back, helps with playing out of defence.
· Keeper must aid defenders playing out of defence.
‣  Sweeper keeper is therefore a must. It also helps with nummercial advantages.
· Flexible and adjusting after opposition. 
‣   Spare man in defense, 2 central defenders + Defensive midfielder vs 1 striker formations. 3 Central defenders + DM versus two striker formations.
· There will be one player fielded in defensive midfield. He will be our playmaker.
‣   Here I could use a Regista, it fits the style as it is “The REG is a more aggressive version of the DLP.. suitable for possession.. press high up the pitch.. Given complete freedom to dictate play from deep positions, the Regista offers a dynamic and unpredictable creative outlet.. from behind the attack who seeks to maintain intense pressure by constantly looking for new chances..”
‣  Complete freedom and dynamism. Normally something I like from a playmaker. But as a lone DM I will need something that is more secure and stable.
‣  The deep lying playmaker is stable, he is probably the most secure out of all playmaker roles. Suitable for a lone defensive midfielder.
‣ Still creative, his job is to link defence and midfield.
‣ Focus play through the middle. Support duty, which will let him bring the ball out of defence and allow him to operate with a more expansive passing range.  All together it leaves the DLPs with attacking mentality.
· Width. One player on each side will keep the width, it is a demanding task.
‣   2 wide midfielders on support will be tasked with this job, they will be told to stay wider. This is our only wideplayers. Duty is set to support, to work both offensively and defensively. 
· Two forwards will occupying opposition defenders or asking them different questions.
‣   Both will be attackers dropping to midfield for numerical superiority. One will dribble with the ball, using agility and trickery. The other will hold it up with balance and strength. 
‣   False nine and deep lying forward. PPM’s will be needed for this behaviour. Drops deep to collect the ball will be learned for the F9. Plays with his back towards goal for the DLF.

 

That leaves us with this:

 

All but one position is mentioned. What kind of players are we looking for then?
•Complete players.  To be considered complete they will need the following.
· Very intelligent players.
‣   Anticipation.
‣   Decisions.
‣   Off the ball movement.
‣   Work rate.

· Technically adept players.
‣   First touch.
‣   Passing.
‣   First touch.

· Physically good enough players.
‣   Stamina.
‣   Acceleration.
‣   Agility.

The long term goal is to get the players to reach 14+ under every attribute listed under intelligence, 13+ for technical abilities and 12+ for the physical. As a start, when this is reached I will increase the threshold.

•Young players.
· Can have them for a long time.
‣   High re-sell value.
‣   Demands lower wages.
· More flexible than older players.
‣   Shapeable. Can easier and faster learn new PPM’s. 
‣   Room to develop.

Younger players are often not fully developed, hence I can mould them into players I like, considering attribute spread. I can also learn those individuals' good traits more effectively. Last but not least, they can develop. I can buy potential but in the end getting world-class players.
 

[Djuicer]

Role Breakdown. 
This will be a shorter version than I usually do, I think most knows how I reason at this point. If anything is unclear do not hesitate to ask.

 

•Goalkeeper.
· Sweeper Keeper support.
‣   Helps with building from the back. Plays well with ball playing defenders.
‣   Leaves his area to sweep up overhit through balls from the opposition.
‣   Might launch quick counter attacks.
· Mentality: Attacking.
· Personal Instructions: -

 

•Right and left Central Defender.
· Ball playing defender defend.
‣   Helps with building from the back. Plays well with the sweeper keeper.
‣   Has to be comfortable on the ball.
‣   Might pass longer vertical passes at times. Most of the time they build up play patiently though. 
· Mentality: Balanced.
· Personal Instructions: -

This image shows “The movement of the ball-playing defender, with the dotted yellow lines representing the more direct through-balls he will attempt to play” - Strikerless.com. 

(Image from Strikerless)

 

•Centre-Central defender.
· Central defender cover.
‣   On cover  the central defender will drop back more. Acting almost as an old school sweeper with some PI’s (or as close to it as we can get in the ME).
‣   Requires outstanding ability to read the game.
‣   Pass short passes to the SKs or BPDd’s.
· Mentality: Balanced.
· Personal Instructions: Close down less. Ease off tackles. 

Spoiler

 With less closing down and ease of tackles the player shall be forced to use his anticipation, composure and concentration. Prefering to intercept and being on step ahead of the op. rather than tackle them. Finesse defending over brute force.

The movement of the central defender on cover duty. “On a cover setting, the defender behaves less aggressive, dropping deeper than the others in the defensive line to deal with through-balls that penetrate the defensive line”. Image  and explanation from Strikerless.

•Defensive Midfielder.
· Deep lying playmaker support.
‣   Brings the ball out of the defence, up to the midfielders. Either by dribbling or passing.
‣   Crucial that he can get the ball often, with options around him, a creative hub.
‣   Must stay somewhat in his position as the only player shielding the back three.
· Mentality: Attacking. Must be monitored carefully. Might need to adjust duty or remove “focus play through the middle”.
· Personal Instructions: More direct passes.

This shows the DLPs positioning and movement compared to the defensive duty and a roaming playmaker. 

(Image from Strikerless)

 

•Right and left midfielder.
· Wide midfielder support.
‣   Only player that is tasked with keeping the width.
‣   Great stamina as a lone wide player is essential.
‣   Must be able to both defend  and add some bite in the attacking phase.
· Mentality: Positive.
· Personal Instructions: Stay wider, get further forward (dropped vs strong teams).

This image is originally supposed to show wing backs movement, I do think my wide midfielders on support moves in quite the same way, the biggest difference is probably the starting positions (WMs starts a bit higher up the pitch). 

(Image from Strikerless)

 

•Central midfielder right.
· Central midfielder support.
‣   Offer assistance in the build up, stay close to the DLP.
‣   Assist in the attacks.
‣   Utility man, help in defence and overload the half-spaces too.
· Mentality: Positive.
· Personal Instructions: Moves into channels, get further forward (is added when we struggle to break down teams). Another alternation is changing duty to attacking.

This roughly shows the CMs starting position compared to CMa and CMd.

 (Image from Strikerless)

 

•Central midfielder left.
· Mezzala attack.
‣   Run with the ball. Take on opponents and use trickery and gile to get past them.
‣   Move into half-spaces. With his movement and on the ball ability, this player is a key to break down opposition teams.
‣   One of the first to start the pressing once possession is lost.
· Mentality: Very Attacking.
· Personal Instructions: -

The image shows Mezzala on supports movement and positioning compared to the attacking version. 

(Image from Strikerless)

 

•Striker on the right side.
· False nine.
‣   Drop deep. Overload the midfield.
‣   Pull opposing central defenders out of position.
‣   Supposed to either dribble with the ball or play through balls.
· Mentality: Balanced.
· Personal Instructions: -

The False Nine is similar to a Trequartista  but is taking far more responsibility for the defensive phase of the game. F9s positioning and work areas compared to the Trequartista.

(Image from Strikerless)

 

•Striker on the left side.
· Deep lying forward support.
‣   Is supposed to offer something different, the player in the team with least ball playing expectations on him. Pace, balance and pace is rated highly for this role.
‣   Also supposed to drop deep, but not as deep as the false nine. Holding up the ball for the rest of the team to take new more advanced positions.
‣   Is supposed to be the one furthest forward quite often. Need to contribute with enough goals.
· Mentality: Balanced.
· Personal Instructions: -

 

The starting position and movement of the DLF on support respectively attack.

(Image from Strikerless)

 

Key players.
Let's move on to some of the most important players in the team. The team now will be based on the three man back line. Which means, for us to be stable, the defenders will have to be very good. It is important that they are fast, strong and intelligent. Later onI will probably need better ball players than I have today. It's also key that my central defenders start to learn key PPM’s.
· Brings ball out of defense.
· Tries to play out of trouble.

In the heart of the back three there will be two men used most of the time. Nehuen Perez and Jose Gimenez, both are great defenders. Perez a notch ahead when it comes to defending and Gimenez is probably the better ball player. Both have good personalities (Spirited/Perfectionist). They both have world-class mental abilities with outstanding anticipation, aggression, bravery and concentration. This is my back lines answer to Andrea Barzagli.

First choice is Nehuen Perez.

 

Not far behind is Jose Gimenez.

 

The role for those? A role I discussed earlier, it's possible the closest this FM version comes to a classic sweeper.

Both have at least 15 in:
·Anticipation - Ability to predict and react to events.
·Concentration - Mental focus & attention to detail.
·Positioning - Ability to read a situation and take the best possible position.
·Bravery -  Commitment to sacrifice himself for the team.
·Marking - Ability to stick close to the opposition.
·Tackling - Ability to win the ball cleanly.
All important for the sweeper role, particularly the three first listed attributes.

Spoiler

Explantions for the attributes listed above are partially from @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! s Caixa futebol academy thread.

On each side of the “sweeper” there will be a ball playing defender. Here we will use two other good players. Joao Jose will play to the left of the sweeper, he is a nicer version of Chiellini (low bravery). Except from that he is really a talented defender, hopefully he can learn to be more expansive with his passing too, then he will be a really really good BPD.

 

On the other side is a well rounded defender with good passing ability and aggressive traits. Takehiro Tomiyasu will bring ball playing ability and will have to act as our Bonucci, even if it is just a bleak copy of the original player. His physique is well rounded and he is composed and has good concentration.

 

As for now the deepest four players look like this:

 

For the most important position in my whole system I will use the agening club legend Koke. He is a bit slow now but he is excellent both technically and mentally (mentals are AMAZING 1 attribute below 14).  Koke will mainly be used as our deep lying playmaker. Interesting traits too, not my preferred but it makes for a bit of an unusual interpretation of the role. Koke has those traits:
· Shoots from distance.
· Tries long range passes. 
· Runs with the ball rarely.
· Curls ball.
· Cross early.
Thos traits will promote passing as the first option. Leading to us playing a faster ball moving football. This will add verticality to our style.

 

The role (DLPs) acts like this.

 

Douglas Thales who I recently bought will be playing the games Koke can’t handle or if we need a more physical presence here. I listed PPM’s I find useful for possession football here. For playmakers those are the ones I listed. 
· Dictates tempo.
· Pass alternating PPMs (not more than two). 
· Comes deep to collect the ball.
· Curls ball.

Situational.
· Brings ball out of defense.
· Tries to play out of trouble.
· Runs with the ball through centre/Left wing/Right wing.
· Plays 1-2.
· Runs with ball often.
· Stops play.

Thales who arrived for £18M has at the age of 21 already four good playmaking traits. 
· Dictates tempo.
· Comes deep to collect the ball.
· Tries killer balls (1 pass manipulator).
· Plays 1-2.
In addition to him being a hard worker with silky touch (17) and an eagles vision (17). He will thus see openings others won’t, and have the skill to pull off advanced vertical passes. 
Hopefully he can develop his personality a bit too. Balanced is OK but nothing more.

 

A clip including Douglas Thales as deep lying playmaker.

Adding the DLP to the formation we currently have this:

Last out of key players today will also be someone who soon must be recognized as a legend, Thomas Lemar (to be honest Lemar and Koke is “only” icons in the game). He has vision, technique, passing, agility, flair and much more. He will be played in central midfield as a Mezzala (first I intended to use this guy there). But after an amazing performance by Lemar in a 4-0 (all 4 goals) smashing he nailed down this position as his for now. Apart from being a very talented player Lemar comes with some interesting traits.
· Gets into the opposition area.
· Runs with the ball often.
· Shoots from distance.
· Cuts inside from both wings.
All adding something special to the Mezzala role. Except for cuts inside, I'm not sure it has any effect on central players.

 

Some clips in #3D from the game when Lemar walked in to the starting11.

And this shot, really spectacular. Ødegaard's pass is also in the top-top bracket.

 
One of the last I will show is Jose Marcelo (already linked). This is our best player and the initial thought was to use him in the middle of the pitch, the effects from moving him wide was better for the whole team though so now he is playing on the wings where he can use his pace, balance, dribbling, off the ball movement to create opportunities and cover ground. The wide roles here are very demanding as they are instructed to stay wider and get further forward at the same time as I expect them to help out in defence.
Jose Marcelo has the following traits:

· Cuts inside from both wings.
· Runs with the ball down left.
 ·Argues with officials.

 
Across the pitch from Jose Marcelo is a key part of our style and the one maybe must comfortable playing possession football - Martin Ödegård (or Ødegaard). Passing, dribbling, flair and touch this guy really has it all. Together with really good traits this player is a bit of a JDP catalyst for us. Iceing on the cake is his perfectionist personality.
· Get further forward.
· Dictates tempo
· Plays 1-2
· Looks for pass rather than attempt to score.
· Likes to beat man repeatedly.
· Cuts inside from right wing.

 

DLP, Mezzala and dual WMs with the last piece which is a regular CM on support with PI moves into channels added. Later on, this role might be changed to a box to box midfielder but Saul and Koke that will mostly play there probably do not have the legs for it (BBM) at this stage in their careers. Saul looks like this, not that impressive to be fair. Still he is a decent all round footballer with his mental abilities standing out.

 

This is how it looks in the Tactics creator. (midfield 5)

 

Last ones I will show are the most prolific strikers. First out is ex City man Luka Jovic. His personality has increased from Jovial to Spirited which is really good. He is currently rehabilitating from a damaged cruciate ligament. Jovic is a pure poacher and has 18 finishing and off the ball. 17 in anticipation and composure, a deadly marksman of the finest quality. Jovic has those traits:
· Cuts inside from both wings
· Moves into channels
· Places shots
· Tries first times shots

 
Jovic will probably play as DLF when he is back to full fitness. In the first game in charge one of our players did this. (DLFs)

 
The man playing upfront with Jovic will be comebacking homegrown-newgen Luis Cantu who left for Leipzig 4 years ago for ~£13M and now he was brought back as a first team ready player for £39M. Fairly ambitious and still only 22 years old. Cantu is strong, has a good touch and works very hard. He’s PPM’s are really good for the false nine role.
· Comes deep to collect ball
· Plays 1-2.
· Tries first times shots.
The last is questionable but it's not bad by definition.

 

Fun fact about Cantu, 7 or 8 years after he was generated into the game, he have scored his first goal for his boyhood club.

 
Here a newgen playing as F9 helps out in our deep build up.

 
The strike duo looks like this:

 
Backups I will just hide, look if you are interested, some are just fillers. Others are for mentoring and some have hopefully some potential.

Spoiler

Juan Manuel is a 20 year old keeper. Has 5 star potential.

 
Guillermo Lieder is a 21 year old central defender. Also 5 star potential.

 
Nuno Tavares is a 26 year old left flank player. He is a good backup.

Christian is a central midfielder. 5 star potential.

 
Felix Correia is a decent backup with nice traits to pass on to youngsters.

 
Valteir is a 22 year old striker. 4 star potential, already making strong claims for a starting spot.

 
Unai Benito is a 20 year old. Sitting on 3.5 stars guaranteed potential and possibly 4.5.

 
And the whole full tactic like this:



 
I still always start games with the listed TI’s and roles though. In a year or two I will add the pressing urgency. But for now I feel we need younger players for it. During games there have been some alterations which I have used so far are:
·DLFs changed to Pressing Forward attack. 
·Removing dribble less and in that case adding lower tempo. 
·Play out of defence is removed at times - then I add distribute to playmaker and also remove the distribute slower instruction.
·Lower the LOE+Removing prevents short goalkeeper distribution. Paired with maximum pressing urgency. 
 
I'm still early into the season, but it seems promising so far. Top of the league and positive statistics.

 

The mentalities are as following :

DLFs Balanced - F9 Balanced
WMs Positive - Meza Very Attacking - CMs Positive - WMs Positive
DLPs - Attacking
BPDd Balanced - CDc Balanced - BPDd Balanced 
SKs Attacking
 
The brief version:

BAL-BAL
POS-VA-POS-POS
ATT
BAL-BAL-BAL
ATT

Spoiler

(It seems everything that comes after this is centered for some reason, so Im putting it last.)

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Djuicer

[Djuicer]

For those interested my 12 listed posts in the OP is 116 pages in size 14. WITHOUT pictures or gifs 

[Beerwulf]

3 hours ago, Djuicer said:

For those interested my 12 listed posts in the OP is 116 pages in size 14. WITHOUT pictures or gifs 

And every word is worthwhile.

In one of your earlier tactics you were using a Trequartista in the CF slot. I think you had IW on either side and a lack of cutting edge up front, so you replaced him with a pressing forward.

Did you consider using the Treqartista instead of the False 9? Now he'll have a strike partner in the DLF and also penetrating runs from the Mezalla.

[Djuicer]

3 minutes ago, Beerwulf said:

And every word is worthwhile.

In one of your earlier tactics you were using a Trequartista in the CF slot. I think you had IW on either side and a lack of cutting edge up front, so you replaced him with a pressing forward.

Did you consider using the Treqartista instead of the False 9? Now he'll have a strike partner in the DLF and also penetrating runs from the Mezalla.

Thank you 
 I have not thought of that. It's a really good idea, I will try that and see how it turns out 

[Djuicer]

Lemar is at it again.

Cantu scores a similar goal on the other side.

Thales assist or second assist on both.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Djuicer

[Djuicer]

Lemar again, excellent long pass from Koke. Jovic takes his time and finds Lemar who does as usual.

 

Elias Ab-something. Came in the winter window. Valteir setting this one up.

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Djuicer

[Djuicer]

Well well, now rojoblanco is the finest color in madrid.

 

Lemar ends season with this

Not bad for a 31 year old playing his first season as a CM.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Djuicer

[MrManagerMan]

This is all very inspiring. Excellent stuff!

[Djuicer]

On 04/06/2020 at 15:58, MrManagerMan said:

This is all very inspiring. Excellent stuff!

Thanks 

 

Goals scored:

 

And the assists:

 

Sold Jose Marcelo for £120M during the winter tf. We missed him after that point. We still did ok, Barca was at an other level.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Djuicer

[Djuicer]

Some tiny dives into some players.

 

•Bruno Petkovic

New season seems to getting along just fine, hopefully we can challange in the CL this year. Petkovic was aquired for £2.3M. He is good, not anything special tbh. But the attribute spread is perfect for a dropping/linking striker. PPM's are really good too - Shoots from distance with his 9 in long shots.

Petkovic scored 3 and assisted one in the game above, the assist was a great counter, even though we dominate possession in almost every game, we still strike with urgency when possible. Great kick from SKs to WMs who finds Petkovic (F9) who serves Fede.

 

Seems we are still kings of Madrid.

 

•Thomas Lemar

I like whisky, Lemar is like a long aged one. Gets better by the year.

 

Still early, but look at them stats:

 

Maybe, just maybe this will be our year?

Edited June 7, 2020 by Djuicer

[Djuicer]

Project: Player development, player 1.

This will contain a summary of how I have developed a player over a few seasons. I started out buying him as an 18 year old prospect in the 23/24 season for Fulham for £20M. Once I moved to Manchester City and sat on a lot of cash, I was certain I wanted him to follow me there. Fulham on the other hand played hard-ball and forced me to maybe overpay a bit for him. But for £104M Antonio Carlos was a Citizen.After that I moved to my current club Atletico Madrid and the first year I had no plans of signing such an expensive player. After a few sales the option suddenly existed, I went to Manchester and negotiated a deal. Here are the sales I did during my first three windows in charge of Ateltico Madrid.

So after those sales I felt, yes now we can go for whomever I like. •Antonio Carlos was my first option and well, City accepted the first offer I made, £40M direct and £40M over the period of three years for a combined sum of £80M. Now Antonio has completed three moves in his career. All moves have been to a club in managing and have cost a grand total of £204M.

AC arrived at the islands with two traits from the start. He ran with the ball down right and knocked it past opponents, fine traits for a winger, however I wanted more variation from him. I started to learn him new PPMs, the first one was to play one-twos.

The trait was learned quite fast and the next thing was trying to mentor him to get the determination attribute up. I often trained him as a wide target man at this time. To bulk him up (strength, jumping) and make two of his strongest attributes even better (teamwork and first touch).

Results were decent and well, his determination is growing very well at this point. +2 I a relatively short amount of time. The next thing I wanted was a more expansive passing. The 1-2 is great for overloads and creating in small spaces. The next trait takes advantage of that. I taught him to switch the ball to the other flank. I have learned him every single one except the one looks for pass rather than attempting to score, and I feel every single one add something to Carlos game.

Right now I train him as a defensive winger and focus extra on attacking movement, both are assignments that focus on his weakest area, the mental abilities. Anyhow, this is how he looks today:

From the first screen we can see that he is a much more well rounded player today, quick and skillful enough to take on a defender and then make a killer ball for a forward. Some attributes with great improvement is for example strength +3, balance + 3, anticipation +2, composure +2, technique +2 and more. With even better mentals I'm confident he will be able to dominate more in specific games and more continually over a full season, and with some more time with a great mentor I'm certain he can develop his personality too. I feel that he today is well suited to our style and his attributes and traits both contribute. Well, during this writeup he has gained 1 more in descisions.

Antonio Carlos usually plays down rigth as a WMs with stay wider and get further forwad PI. The role looks like this:

Positive mentality, playing as a lone wide player he contributes a lot both defensivly and in the offense. Current stats is 8 games, 4 goals and 3 assists, 7.88 avg rating. Covering 13kilometers every game, hitting the net with 62 % of his shoots and winning suprisingly 85 % of his attempted tackles. This seems to have a positive effect on his attributes, he is exploding:

 

AC setting up a goal for Lemar:

 

And an other one he sets up:

 

AC scoring with a well timed run:

 

OP can be found here. 

 

EDIT:

 

And this is him now:

 

Lastly, beautiful pressing! ends up in a great goal.

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Djuicer

[Djuicer]

We all want good players right? A key to developing them, and reaching max PA is their personality. I will here (with input from @optimusprimal82 and @gossy7 ) try to make a list of personalities, media handling styles and the clues they give you about hidden attributes. Let's start with personalities.

•Desirable personalities:

Spoiler

Ambitious
Ambition 16-19, Loyalty 7-9
Determination <18, Professionalism <18, Leadership <19

Born Leader
Leadership 20, Determination 20
This trumps the perfectionist trait, but not model citizen or temperamental.

Charismatic Leader
Leadership 19-20, Temperament18-20, Sportsmanship 18-20

Determined
Determination 18-20,
Ambition <12, Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Driven
Determination 18-20, Ambition 12-20
Fairly Determined
Determination 15-17, Professionalism <15, Leader <19

Fairly Professional
Professionalism 15-17, Temperament 11-20
or Professionalism 18-20, Temperamemt 1-10

Iron Willed
Pressure 20, Determination 15-17
Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Leader
Leadership 19-20

Model Citizen
Determination 14-20, Professionalism 15-20, Ambition 12-20, Loyalty 15-20, Pressure 14-20, Sportsmanship 15-20, Temperament 15-20

Model Professional
Professionalism 20, Temperament 10-20

Perfectionist
Determination 14-20, Professionalism 14-20, Ambition 14-20

Professional
Professionalism 18-19, Temperament 10-20, Leader <19

Resilient
Pressure 17-19, Determination 15-17
Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Resolute
Determination 15-17, Proffessionalism 15-17, Leader <19

Spirited
Pressure 15-20, Professionalism 11-17
Determination <18, Leader <19

Very Ambitious
Ambition 20, Loyalty 7-9
Determination <18, Professionalism <18, Leader <19

•Decent personalities:

Spoiler

Balanced
Balanced is pretty much anything that doesn't fall under another label. Also covers all negative personalities for real life players. Whom otherwise won't be given "bad" personalities.

Devoted
Ambition 6-7, Loyalty 20. *Must also be at a favourite club.
Determination 6-17, Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Fairly Ambitious
Ambition 15-20, Loyalty 10-20
Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Fairly Loyal
Loyalty 15-20, Ambition 8-14
Determination 6-15, Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Fairly Sporting
Sportsmanship 15-20, Determination 10-14, Ambition 1-14
Professionalism <15

Honest
Sportsmanship 20, Determination 1-9
Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Jovial
Pressure 15-20, Determination 1-17
Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Light Hearted
Pressure 15-20, Sportsmanship 15-20
Determination <18, Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Loyal
Loyalty 18-19, Ambition 6-7
Determination <18, Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Realist
Sportsmanship 2-5, Determination 11-17
Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Sporting
Sportsmanship 18-19, Determination 1-9
Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Unsporting
Sportsmanship 1, Determination 11-17
Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Very Loyal
Loyalty 20, Ambition 6-7
Determination <18, Professionalism <18, Leader <19

•Avoid those personalities:

Spoiler

Casual
Determination 1-9, Professionalism 2-4
Leadership<19, Temperament >4

Easily Discouraged
Determination 1, Ambition 1-9

Fickle
Loyalty 4-6, Ambition 16-20
Determination <17, Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Low Determination
Determination 1-5
Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Low Self Belief
Professionalism 2-3, Determination 1-9
Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Mercenary
Loyalty 1-3, Ambition 16-20
Determination <18, Professionalism <18, Leader <19

Slack
Professionalism 1, Determination 1-9
Temperament >4, Leader <19

Spineless
Pressure 1, Determination 1-9, Leader <19

Temperamental
Temperament 1-4, Professionalism 1-10
This personality trumps pretty much every single other one, so if they are not temperamental, they don't have these attributes.

Unambitious
Ambition 1-5, Loyalty 11-20
Determination <18, Professionalism <18, Leader <19

•Media Handling Style
Styles are slightly different from personality as players can have more than one description if they fit into more than one type. For example a player could be described as 'Outspoken, Short-Tempered and Confrontational'. This can therefore give us a massive amount of information about a player's hidden stats. - @gossy7
•Desirable MHS:
 

Spoiler

 

Evasive
Professionalism 15-20, Pressure 15-20

Unflappable
Temperament 15-20, Pressure 15-20

Level Headed
Professionalism 13-20, Loyalty 12-20

Reserved
Controversy 1-5, Professionalism 15-20

 

•Decent MHS:

Spoiler

 

Plays Mind Games - @gossy7 did not know this in his OP.


This tells us that Professional (Professionalism 18-19, Temperament 10-20 Leader <19) personality, Outspoken (Controversy 15-20) and Level Headed (Professionalism 13-20, Loyalty 12-20) probably overlaps this. In this special case we know Professionalism 18-19, Temperament 10-20, Determination 15 (in his stats profile, you will have to take my word for it), Controversy 15-20, Loyalty 12-20, Leader <19

Media Friendly
This is similar to balanced and covers options which aren't covered by anything else.

 

•Avoid those MHS:
 

Spoiler

 

Outspoken
Controversy 15-20 

Volatile
Temperament 3-6

Short-Tempered
Temperament 1-2

Confrontational
Temperament 1-7, Sportsmanship 1-7

 

If I would rank them, those would be the very best personalities:
Model Citizen
Determination 14-20, Professionalism 15-20, Ambition 12-20, Loyalty 15-20, Pressure 14-20, Sportsmanship 15-20, Temperament 15-20

Model Professional
Professionalism 20, Temperament 10-20

Perfectionist
Determination 14-20, Professionalism 14-20, Ambition 14-20

And the very best MHS:
Evasive
Professionalism 15-20, Pressure 15-20

Unflappable
Temperament 15-20, Pressure 15-20

Reserved
Controversy 1-5, Professionalism 15-20

 OP from here.

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Djuicer

[Djuicer]

Luis Cantu as F9 in the 3-1-4-2, with those PPM's:
· Comes deep to collect the ball.
· Plays 1-2.
· Tries killer balls.

Starts deep, collects the ball, moving the ball out wide, end up in the box and fires it home.

 

EDIT: One more set up by the excellent Cantu:

He comes deep, recycles - moven into the area, finishes..even though the keeper saves, the movement and timing is excellent.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Djuicer

[Djuicer]

Project: Player development, 2

So, this was Borna Haramustek when I signed him.Then he spent around 6 more months in Zagreb before joining up in Madrid.

After around 8-9 months in the spanish capital he looks like this. A lot of improvement all over, only the personality has taken a downfall, still time to fix that though. He have been training as a sweeper keeper with focus on sweeping.

He has developed some more, the extra focus on sweeping is removed, now he will focus extra on his short distribution (first touch, passing and vision).

Im fairly happy with Haramustek at this point, the rushing out tendency seems hard to increase. The role (SKs) looks like this in the game:

After a while he got a bad injury, but in the end it might actually help him become a better keeper due to the drop in stamina, which if I remeber correctly takes CA but does not give anything to the keeper.

Using what we now know about personalities he is Fickle, which means he has: Loyalty 4-6, Ambition 16-20
Determination <17, Professionalism <18, Leader <19 and Media Friendly, which is like the balanced of Media Handling Styles.

The schedules used are (mostly) my own, which have been developed over the course of around 5 seasons. As for now I'm getting David de Gea in to mentor Haramustek. DDG is Professional, which means Professionalism 18-19, Temperament 10-20, Leader <19. He is also Unflappable which tells that he has Temperament 15-20, Pressure 15-20. I can also see his determination which is 16. So he is:
Determination: 16.
Professionalism: 18-19
Leadership: <19
Temperament: 15-20
Pressure: 15-20

Overall DDG really is someone who can help Haramustek to develop his personality and MHS.
 

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Djuicer

[Djuicer]

AC must be world-class now?

[gam945]

Just went over all your posts, it really is one of the best threads here. Keep it up mate!

[Djuicer]

18 hours ago, gam945 said:

Just went over all your posts, it really is one of the best threads here. Keep it up mate!

Thanks mate. The plan is to finish the second year with Atleti and then do a revised version of the 3-1-4-2. I really like the way it works on the pitch tbh.

Have been using: 

PFa-F9
WMs-MEZa-BBM-WMs
DLPs
BPDd-CDd-BPDd
SKs

[Punt]

I`m still using your 433 ( or 41221 ) and loving the passing and gameplay:

 

i

I never paid any attention to individual mentality but now my players are attacking and defending together.

What do you think if I raised the tempo? Did you ever try it? 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Punt

[Djuicer]

16 hours ago, Punt said:

I`m still using your 433 ( or 41221 ) and loving the passing and gameplay:

 

i

I never paid any attention to individual mentality but now my players are attacking and defending together.

What do you think if I raised the tempo? Did you ever try it? 

IND. Mentality can have nice effects! That is one of them
I did not other than in periods of games at times. Now with 3-1-4-2 I use the standard tempo setting on positive with shorter passing.

[Djuicer]

 

Soon I will have completed year 2 with Atletico and 3-1-4-2. Some changes have been made and I have also gotten a grid for the pitches which hopefully can add something from an analytic perspective.

 

In this gif you can see the grid, Rodri-DLPs finds Carlos-WMs with a great pass, Carlos makes no mistake and passes to the MEZs Christian who finds the net.

The back three is spreading wide, also the WMs are keeping width. Making us having a decent spread of players and still manageing to end up with 4 (well, 3..the BBM is just at the edge) men in the op. box. The grid resembles the one Pep Guardiola uses in training, for his JDP setup.

Spoiler

Grid by @wkdsoul

Edited June 22, 2020 by Djuicer

[JDhamm]

3 hours ago, Djuicer said:

The grid resembles the one Pep Guardiola uses in training, for his JDP setup.

Is this grid view available for download?

[Djuicer]

Just now, JDhamm said:

Is this grid view available for download?

It is!

(instructions and such).
 

Direct DL if you know what you are doing.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/ycxh34ydquug6yr/pitch.rar/file

[CANDItO]

Great inspiring content! Well done mate!

 

_

Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread and I can open a separate one if you think it is best.

_

 

I am trying to achieve similar results (in terms of possession and overall play) but with two AMs behind the striker, rather than the two IWs. I have great depth there (mostly regens, but also Havertz, Kubo, L. Pellegrini, Nuno Santos) and not much on the wings.

Do you think this is achievable? Perhaps your next experiment? Think Seedorf/Kaka in Ancelotti's "Christmas Tree" formation.

I seem to be able to retain possession quite well but struggle with scoring. Once I score the first goal it gets easier, as a losing team doesn't tend to park the bus and defend so narrowly after conceding, but at times I only manage to break them down at the 89th minute or so (or not at all) and it makes for some pretty stressful moments. I noticed that the two AM's stay pretty close to each other, even with PI to get forward and wide. I have tried setting the overall attacking width to much wider but doesn't seem to make a great difference. Perhaps with the current ME this is too much to ask?

 

 

This is the heatmap with avg. pos. from the last game, won 0-1(89th) away against a bottom of the league team. I think in creating the triangles at the foundation of JdP two AM's that stay a little wide shouldn't be too far from the position occupied by two IW's, but here they almost sit one on top of the other. I would ideally want them to be just a little wider than the midfielders behind them, but still not as wide as the wingbacks.

My optimal starting 11 looks something like this:

 

S. Esposito (PFa)

REGEN (AMs) - Havertz (AMs)

L. Pellegrini (MEZs) - Kubo (RPMs)

D. Rice (DMs)

A. Davies (CWBs) - Upamecano (BPDd) - De Ligt (BPDd) - Tomiyasu (CWBs)

Szczesny (SKs)

 

The PIs on the AMs are: Get Further Forward, Stay Wider, Roam From Position

Just to give you a complete picture, these below are the regens I have available for the last third of the pitch.

I'd love to perfect the pairing Finn+Florez. 200cm x 101kg hand in hand with 162cm x 65kg. It would be like David and Goliath. At the moment whichever pair plays as AM's is very often the lowest rating in the team. When the same player is used as MEZ or RPM behind, their performances and ratings improve massively.

I would really appreciate your input on this. Thanks mate!

 

[Djuicer]

13 hours ago, CANDItO said:

Great inspiring content! Well done mate!

 

_

Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread and I can open a separate one if you think it is best.

_

 

I am trying to achieve similar results (in terms of possession and overall play) but with two AMs behind the striker, rather than the two IWs. I have great depth there (mostly regens, but also Havertz, Kubo, L. Pellegrini, Nuno Santos) and not much on the wings.

Do you think this is achievable? Perhaps your next experiment? Think Seedorf/Kaka in Ancelotti's "Christmas Tree" formation.

I seem to be able to retain possession quite well but struggle with scoring. Once I score the first goal it gets easier, as a losing team doesn't tend to park the bus and defend so narrowly after conceding, but at times I only manage to break them down at the 89th minute or so (or not at all) and it makes for some pretty stressful moments. I noticed that the two AM's stay pretty close to each other, even with PI to get forward and wide. I have tried setting the overall attacking width to much wider but doesn't seem to make a great difference. Perhaps with the current ME this is too much to ask?

 

 

This is the heatmap with avg. pos. from the last game, won 0-1(89th) away against a bottom of the league team. I think in creating the triangles at the foundation of JdP two AM's that stay a little wide shouldn't be too far from the position occupied by two IW's, but here they almost sit one on top of the other. I would ideally want them to be just a little wider than the midfielders behind them, but still not as wide as the wingbacks.

My optimal starting 11 looks something like this:

 

S. Esposito (PFa)

REGEN (AMs) - Havertz (AMs)

L. Pellegrini (MEZs) - Kubo (RPMs)

D. Rice (DMs)

A. Davies (CWBs) - Upamecano (BPDd) - De Ligt (BPDd) - Tomiyasu (CWBs)

Szczesny (SKs)

 

The PIs on the AMs are: Get Further Forward, Stay Wider, Roam From Position

Just to give you a complete picture, these below are the regens I have available for the last third of the pitch.

I'd love to perfect the pairing Finn+Florez. 200cm x 101kg hand in hand with 162cm x 65kg. It would be like David and Goliath. At the moment whichever pair plays as AM's is very often the lowest rating in the team. When the same player is used as MEZ or RPM behind, their performances and ratings improve massively.

I would really appreciate your input on this. Thanks mate!

 

Feel free to post here, its good with discussions. I will try this next, the Xmas tree was maybe not a possession tactic as we see them today. Ancelottis use of playmakers was very intresting though, sometimes using four at given times. Width will be the thoughest to get in this formation unless you maybe thinker with the base of the tree or change up some roles. Roughly the Xmas-tree for me is reliant on width from the fullbacks. They are (in fm) the key to this system. The CWB is probably the best if you have players for it, however if you don't the regular WB is good to, crosses more and often keeps it a tad simpler. In FM to look like Ancelottis Milan I think it is similar to this:
P/AF (Schev/Inzh)
AP/TRQ (Rivaldo/Rui Costa/Seedorf) SS/AM (Kaka)
BBM( Seedorf) DLP (Pirlo) BWM (Gattuso)
CWB-CD-CD-CWB
GK

Then for possession you might want to change some things up
adding a SK, one or two BPDs, switch bbm to mez and maybe the bwm for a carrilero. Or one of bwm or bbm to the wider option.

The scoring problem is quite common with good teams. The op. sits deep which makes it hard to find space and score. After the first goal they have to switch up and that creates more space for you to attack. Making the goals post the first one often much easier to get.


I have also considered two variants of the xmas tree. First is the regular and the other is the one Ancelotti also used in Milan 4-3-1-2 with Scheva and Inzaghi up top. This could also be changed to creator/scorer and or big man/little man (for you team).

[CANDItO]

2 hours ago, Djuicer said:

Feel free to post here, its good with discussions. I will try this next, the Xmas tree was maybe not a possession tactic as we see them today. Ancelottis use of playmakers was very intresting though, sometimes using four at given times. Width will be the thoughest to get in this formation unless you maybe thinker with the base of the tree or change up some roles. Roughly the Xmas-tree for me is reliant on width from the fullbacks. They are (in fm) the key to this system. The CWB is probably the best if you have players for it, however if you don't the regular WB is good to, crosses more and often keeps it a tad simpler. In FM to look like Ancelottis Milan I think it is similar to this:
P/AF (Schev/Inzh)
AP/TRQ (Rivaldo/Rui Costa/Seedorf) SS/AM (Kaka)
BBM( Seedorf) DLP (Pirlo) BWM (Gattuso)
CWB-CD-CD-CWB
GK

Then for possession you might want to change some things up
adding a SK, one or two BPDs, switch bbm to mez and maybe the bwm for a carrilero. Or one of bwm or bbm to the wider option.

The scoring problem is quite common with good teams. The op. sits deep which makes it hard to find space and score. After the first goal they have to switch up and that creates more space for you to attack. Making the goals post the first one often much easier to get.


I have also considered two variants of the xmas tree. First is the regular and the other is the one Ancelotti also used in Milan 4-3-1-2 with Scheva and Inzaghi up top. This could also be changed to creator/scorer and or big man/little man (for you team).

 

First of all, thank you for the feedback and for letting me share my 2 cents here. Unfortunately most of the points you raised were something I already tinkered with quite a lot but I still don't seem to be able to crack it. Don't get me wrong, it kind of works, just not as well as I hoped. Last season I won CL (0-0 and then penalties) with this module, playing with a CAU mentality for most of the match as an underdog vs. Manchester United. I lost Serie A by 6 points and also lost Coppa Italia on penalties (also 0-0).

This is before I even stumbled on this fantastic thread of yours. As you can see, many things are similar to what we just discussed. Great minds think alike?

Moving on, and trying to perfect this, I have read of your approach in this thread and tinkered a bit with the formation. This is what I am using now. (Pellegrini, Kubo and Finn and Gasparini are additions from this season)

I present here to you a case study of my last game (H) vs Sassuolo (mid-table) which might be helpful to understand the issues with this setup and hopefully aid the discussion.

The game was won with no goals from open play. Scored immediately on a corner. Conceded after the break also on a corner. Moved to VA mentality right after and managed to obtain a penalty (foul on Tomiyasu cutting in the box from the byline) 15mins before the end of the game.

The ability of my players and the stats seem to be telling me that it should've been an easier game to win. We have great familiarity with this tactic and morale is Extremely Good on average.

This is the heatmap with avg.pos with ball for the first half. The two behind the striker are very very close. Too close for my liking. Good width and occupation of spaces otherwise.

A bit higher up the pitch after changing mentality for the full game avg.pos and heatmap.

It seems crazy to me that we are not able to score more goals, and not from open play, when at times we are able to produce free flowing football like this one in the example below. Around 30th minute of this game while winning 1-0, on POS mentality.

Any thoughts?

Edited June 25, 2020 by CANDItO

[Guest]

That heat map doesn't look good at all to me, if I am trying to create a possession tactic I wan't it to look something like this. Whether anything resembling this can be achieved with that formation I am unsure.

 

[CANDItO]

2 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

That heat map doesn't look good at all to me, if I am trying to create a possession tactic I wan't it to look something like this. Whether anything resembling this can be achieved with that formation I am unsure.

 

Does it not? The only problem I see is with the two behind the strikers too close to each other. If I could get them to stay farther apart, and perhaps one of them to drop a little bit then I think I would be close to what I want. Essentially 7 bodies in & around the opponent's box, having the ball and not losing it, passing it around until they can break through. When I think about Pep's Barcelona this is how I would summarise them. I have seen plenty of games where they were able to just keep the ball 25-30m from the opponent's goal for long stretches of the game and that is what I am trying to achieve. In that respect the heatmap seems close enough, it's the end product which is lacking and I am trying to address.

[Djuicer]

23 hours ago, CANDItO said:

 

First of all, thank you for the feedback and for letting me share my 2 cents here. Unfortunately most of the points you raised were something I already tinkered with quite a lot but I still don't seem to be able to crack it. Don't get me wrong, it kind of works, just not as well as I hoped. Last season I won CL (0-0 and then penalties) with this module, playing with a CAU mentality for most of the match as an underdog vs. Manchester United. I lost Serie A by 6 points and also lost Coppa Italia on penalties (also 0-0).

This is before I even stumbled on this fantastic thread of yours. As you can see, many things are similar to what we just discussed. Great minds think alike?

Moving on, and trying to perfect this, I have read of your approach in this thread and tinkered a bit with the formation. This is what I am using now. (Pellegrini, Kubo and Finn and Gasparini are additions from this season)

I present here to you a case study of my last game (H) vs Sassuolo (mid-table) which might be helpful to understand the issues with this setup and hopefully aid the discussion.

The game was won with no goals from open play. Scored immediately on a corner. Conceded after the break also on a corner. Moved to VA mentality right after and managed to obtain a penalty (foul on Tomiyasu cutting in the box from the byline) 15mins before the end of the game.

The ability of my players and the stats seem to be telling me that it should've been an easier game to win. We have great familiarity with this tactic and morale is Extremely Good on average.

This is the heatmap with avg.pos with ball for the first half. The two behind the striker are very very close. Too close for my liking. Good width and occupation of spaces otherwise.

A bit higher up the pitch after changing mentality for the full game avg.pos and heatmap.

It seems crazy to me that we are not able to score more goals, and not from open play, when at times we are able to produce free flowing football like this one in the example below. Around 30th minute of this game while winning 1-0, on POS mentality.

 

Any thoughts?

I think @Crazy_Ivan has a legit point. Will explain further down, however the basics seems great, like mine 

21 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

That heat map doesn't look good at all to me, if I am trying to create a possession tactic I wan't it to look something like this. Whether anything resembling this can be achieved with that formation I am unsure.

 

Yes, I agree. spacing is very important to get fast and desicive passing. If there is not enough space, there will be though to create slick passes with decent tempo. You want every pass to either move your team into a better position and/or opportunity OR move the opponent vertically or laterally around the pitch. For that you will need said spacing. IE your team will need to have width, but also depth. Width you get from the wing backs but depth is scarce.  I think a first step would be to either change one mezalla or move one into attack. Secondly What's the PPM's for the attacking midfielders and the central ones? its quite important for the movement too.

In the clip you linked the passing is there but its quite short and you can see the points im trying to make in which players are running into the box. They are all attacking in relatively the same area, lacking both "width" and "depth". Which makes it harder to break down the opponents. The players trait can help with this, but also PI's. Moves into channels can be helpful, but mezzalas and SS + PFa will already have it. Do you have some players that comes deep to collect too? 
EDIT: This shows what Im trying to say. Width and decent depth.


EDIT2: Current TI's

This leads to possession but also sometimes the longer pass. This GIF is actually an overhit pass but the result becomes desirable anyway. It intended for the left striker but it is too long and gets to the right striker instead.

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Djuicer

[CANDItO]

4 hours ago, Djuicer said:

I think @Crazy_Ivan has a legit point. Will explain further down, however the basics seems great, like mine 

Yes, I agree. spacing is very important to get fast and desicive passing. If there is not enough space, there will be though to create slick passes with decent tempo. You want every pass to either move your team into a better position and/or opportunity OR move the opponent vertically or laterally around the pitch. For that you will need said spacing. IE your team will need to have width, but also depth. Width you get from the wing backs but depth is scarce.  I think a first step would be to either change one mezalla or move one into attack. Secondly What's the PPM's for the attacking midfielders and the central ones? its quite important for the movement too.

In the clip you linked the passing is there but its quite short and you can see the points im trying to make in which players are running into the box. They are all attacking in relatively the same area, lacking both "width" and "depth". Which makes it harder to break down the opponents. The players trait can help with this, but also PI's. Moves into channels can be helpful, but mezzalas and SS + PFa will already have it. Do you have some players that comes deep to collect too? 
EDIT: This shows what Im trying to say. Width and decent depth.


EDIT2: Current TI's

This leads to possession but also sometimes the longer pass. This GIF is actually an overhit pass but the result becomes desirable anyway. It intended for the left striker but it is too long and gets to the right striker instead.

 

The point you make on depth is legitimate, and I think is what I am struggling to achieve. With defences staying low and narrow there is very little space to attack so all my players end up around the box in similar spots. CWB on the flanks near the byline and everyone else in front of the goal.

I have a couple of players with Comes Deep to Get the Ball (one MEZZ and one AM/AP/SS). I have noticed that a lot of my players have Runs Forward Whenever Possible, Tries Killer Ball Often, Plays One-Twos, Knocks Ball Past Opponent, so perhaps the team is more suited for a fast counter attack play rather then possession football. I'll tinker a bit more with the formation and the PIs to see if I manage to get somebody to provide depth and by coming lower and perhaps arriving late near the box.

I still think that most of the lack of depth is caused by how narrow/tight the opposition decides to play, so perhaps I need to increase the tempo to catch players outside of position and use the space they would leave.

[Djuicer]

22 hours ago, CANDItO said:

I have a couple of players with Comes Deep to Get the Ball (one MEZZ and one AM/AP/SS). I have noticed that a lot of my players have Runs Forward Whenever Possible, Tries Killer Ball Often, Plays One-Twos, Knocks Ball Past Opponent, so perhaps the team is more suited for a fast counter attack play rather then possession football. I'll tinker a bit more with the formation and the PIs to see if I manage to get somebody to provide depth and by coming lower and perhaps arriving late near the box.

I still think that most of the lack of depth is caused by how narrow/tight the opposition decides to play, so perhaps I need to increase the tempo to catch players outside of position and use the space they would leave.

The traits should work for possession IMO. Its just important to pair the correct traits in the right role and having fitting players (attributes) for it.
Yeah, when opponents do that, its often very effective to increase tempo or passing range, or altering the width to stretch them even more.