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[FM 20.4.1] • • • MiNiMaL_FuSS - FuSSfilment 2.0.1 || 4-1-2-2-1 • • •

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Posted (edited)

A quick update as I close in on 2 years of FuSSfilment.

Spurs bought no-one over the summer. Our targets were Frenkie de Jong and Kylian Mbappe, so unsurprisingly even as English and Europa champions we weren't quite capable of matching their prices - and all the while we had the perpetually complaining Erling Haaland parked out on the front doorstep, with orders to make come hither eyes at anyone with 90 million to spend. Sadly, the best we got offered was 55 million by Atletico Madrid, so in desperation we loaned him to Barcelona to kick the problem down the road a season, and only as I write this do I wonder if they would have done a swap deal for de Jong...

In theory, Haaland won't be missed as a) The formation isn't striker-dependent, b) we have Harry Kane, who may be 31 but is still Harry Kane, and c) Troy Parrott returned from loan having scored 37 goals for Napoli last year, firing them to 3rd in Serie A.

In practice, the team misfired from the off, with neither 1.1 nor 1.2 really catching light. The lack of reinforcements left us very light with just 20 senior players and a handful of youth prospects drafted into the senior squad for cover, and criminally I failed to take account of it being a Euros + Copa America + Olympics summer: De Ligt, Ndombele, Coman, Lo Celso and the English contingent (about a third of the Euros squad) were all playing throughout the summer, and got no real break. De Ligt returned from the Olympics on 11th August, the day after our season opener. The first four of the above have been injured or in need of rest for close to two months now - and it's not done our title defence much good.

A penalty loss to City in the Community Shield was followed by a 2-1 victory over Brentford with 2 late goals, and our recapturing the Super Cup by also beating PSG 2-1 (Mbappe didn't score, only serving to increase my affections). Sadly, we then hit a rough patch - defeats to United and Palace sandwiched a messy draw with Leicester, while West Ham also took a point off us and Arsenal scored a late winner. A 2-0 humbling by Brighton (our first loss by more than a single goal in 18 months) really set alarm bells ringing, and De Ligt led a delegation of players into my office demanding action. I promised that I'd work to turn things around, resisting the urge to point out that it'd be useful if his £90 million carcass could manage more than 1 match a week, and they left satisfied - but I've never been in such a poor run on this save.

Fortunately, there was the positive of an unbeaten start in the CL. Despite drawing the most deathly Group of Deaths in Monaco, Dortmund and Real Madrid, we won our first 3 matches by an aggregate score of 11-2, including a 3-0 romp in the Bernabeu. And with Ndombele and De Ligt both in the team we knocked off Liverpool as well, to give us something of a platform to build on.

I can only speak for my own team, but 1.2 seems to lack the dynamism of 1.1. The more compact team shape of 1.1 seems (again, could just be me) to allow greater interplay between players. So I'm sticking with that for now, as currently I'm 12th in the league and 9 points off 1st - That's not insurmountable with 3/4 of the season to go, not if I can get Coman, Sancho, Aarons back fit and stop De Ligt and Ndombele from feeling faint when they leave the training ground. I hope...

EDIT: A smaller update - I accidentally set the starting tactic to 1.2 for matches against Dortmund and Huddersfield - drew 1-1 and lost 1-0. I've now deleted it from my tactics slots so I can't make that mistake again :D

Edited by Majick

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Looks like my now League 1 Salford might have another go at the League Cup!

20200430114934_1.thumb.jpg.976158eae72d490073a42476e56777c8.jpg

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HI Fuss,

Loving your work as usual! 

A couple of questions:

1) How many goals will you score from corners in a season? Is this something you've put time into?

2) Can you show an end of season screenshot of your squad? It would be good to see how players rate, score etc by the end of a season

3) Have you used the 'show some passion' shout when a team equalises against you? it seems to be a good one

4) Is runs with ball often a good/bad/neutral PPM for a central midfielder?

Thanks :)

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Posted (edited)

hEY @FuSS  couple questions:

1. What do you do for end of game Team Talks?

2. How do you handle your set piece takers? Does in/out swinging corners matter?

Thanks!

 

Edited by mantorras77

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Sad to report that my experience has been similar to Majick's, but I was playing with Leicester.

 

1.1 did moderately better (finished 2nd two seasons  in a row), but in the 3rd season with 1.2 the team struggled to create chances, with the majority of goals coming from set pieces instead.

With the team in midtable, I decided to switch to a different tactic midseason with players playing out of their natural positions and went on a win streak climbing back up the table, so I'm pretty sure my squad wasn't the issue.

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What you say the best tactic is for a 4231? I play with inside forwards. 

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Following on from the above, I switched to a 4231 shortly after as none of my DMs were really firing in that spot. I made it into 4th spot at match 37 and somehow won the CL - very, very luckily, as 5th placed Man City won the EL.

I didn't think that the tactic was the problem; The 4231 still let me down against the best teams, but it was scoring more. My gaze shifted to my midfield and 'keeper, which star-wise had the lowest rated players in the team. I brought in Mattheus Henrique from PSG and Alexander Nubel from Bayern (beautiful, beautiful 30m release clause), freeing up funds with the sale of a much-admired regen, Jordon Pickford, and bringing in 80m for Haaland. I probably undervalued him... but no-one was biting at 90m the year before so :shrug:.

Near the end of the window there was some very big news from the Etihad - Phil Foden had been transfer listed as surplus to requirements. 40m was enough to get him through the door just before the deadline. We now had a revitalised spine, with Derby's Vincent Tumber having joined in January and looking to be an absolute rock in the centre of defence.

1.1 was back, and we started free-scoring. It's not been perfect - we've lost to both Manchester clubs in the league and been knocked out of the League Cup by Arsenal, gratingly. But at the 1/3 mark of the season we're 2nd from City, just a point behind, and we won 6 from 6 in the CL group stage. We've handed out a couple of shellackings (Brighton and Watford domestically, and Roma in the CL), which my 4231 didn't ever do. It's a promising start, and if we can survive without too many heavy injuries, we should be well placed moving on in the season.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Majick said:

Following on from the above, I switched to a 4231 shortly after as none of my DMs were really firing in that spot. I made it into 4th spot at match 37 and somehow won the CL - very, very luckily, as 5th placed Man City won the EL.

I didn't think that the tactic was the problem; The 4231 still let me down against the best teams, but it was scoring more. My gaze shifted to my midfield and 'keeper, which star-wise had the lowest rated players in the team. I brought in Mattheus Henrique from PSG and Alexander Nubel from Bayern (beautiful, beautiful 30m release clause), freeing up funds with the sale of a much-admired regen, Jordon Pickford, and bringing in 80m for Haaland. I probably undervalued him... but no-one was biting at 90m the year before so :shrug:.

Near the end of the window there was some very big news from the Etihad - Phil Foden had been transfer listed as surplus to requirements. 40m was enough to get him through the door just before the deadline. We now had a revitalised spine, with Derby's Vincent Tumber having joined in January and looking to be an absolute rock in the centre of defence.

1.1 was back, and we started free-scoring. It's not been perfect - we've lost to both Manchester clubs in the league and been knocked out of the League Cup by Arsenal, gratingly. But at the 1/3 mark of the season we're 2nd from City, just a point behind, and we won 6 from 6 in the CL group stage. We've handed out a couple of shellackings (Brighton and Watford domestically, and Roma in the CL), which my 4231 didn't ever do. It's a promising start, and if we can survive without too many heavy injuries, we should be well placed moving on in the season.

whats your media prediction?

Edited by mantorras77

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2nd. About as realistic as the board's expectation of a title challenge, given how badly I messed things up last year... but it's actually going to plan, so far!

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Posted (edited)
On 05/05/2020 at 09:43, Alex2020 said:

HI Fuss,

Loving your work as usual! 

A couple of questions:

1) How many goals will you score from corners in a season? Is this something you've put time into?

2) Can you show an end of season screenshot of your squad? It would be good to see how players rate, score etc by the end of a season

3) Have you used the 'show some passion' shout when a team equalises against you? it seems to be a good one

4) Is runs with ball often a good/bad/neutral PPM for a central midfielder?

Thanks :)

1) See below:

20200510130022_1.thumb.jpg.33c7e3c5e2dcbf6d2ce5cae3d4bce3b3.jpg20200510131742_1.thumb.jpg.3c8f47bf5cb78c73927a3bbc549a186f.jpg

2) Here's the current squad (league 1), not sure if it's possible to get back to the whole squad ratings last season??

This may be a little misleading as I lost 2 or 3 regular players in January to bigger clubs :'(

20200510130129_1.thumb.jpg.60abb97b6f7016c42958e4e4dee6fe21.jpg

3) Agree, I tend to ass "show some passion" into my rotation when I am losing or drawing.

4) In this tactic I'd say it was particularly good for the AML/R and the Mezzala.

 

On 07/05/2020 at 03:07, mantorras77 said:

hEY @FuSS  couple questions:

1. What do you do for end of game Team Talks?

2. How do you handle your set piece takers? Does in/out swinging corners matter?

Thanks!

 

1) 7.30 is the magic player rating for me - below that you get aggressive disappointment. I use the same 7.30 rule when I do individual player form comments too.

2) I'm league 1, so it's not really a luxury I have, so I tend to let them get picked game by game.

 

On 08/05/2020 at 08:55, nyte` said:

Sad to report that my experience has been similar to Majick's, but I was playing with Leicester.

 

1.1 did moderately better (finished 2nd two seasons  in a row), but in the 3rd season with 1.2 the team struggled to create chances, with the majority of goals coming from set pieces instead.

With the team in midtable, I decided to switch to a different tactic midseason with players playing out of their natural positions and went on a win streak climbing back up the table, so I'm pretty sure my squad wasn't the issue.

Er, you've answered you own question in the last sentence - you're using players that aren't suitable for the tactic!

 

On 08/05/2020 at 17:22, Majick said:

Following on from the above, I switched to a 4231 shortly after as none of my DMs were really firing in that spot. I made it into 4th spot at match 37 and somehow won the CL - very, very luckily, as 5th placed Man City won the EL.

I didn't think that the tactic was the problem; The 4231 still let me down against the best teams, but it was scoring more. My gaze shifted to my midfield and 'keeper, which star-wise had the lowest rated players in the team. I brought in Mattheus Henrique from PSG and Alexander Nubel from Bayern (beautiful, beautiful 30m release clause), freeing up funds with the sale of a much-admired regen, Jordon Pickford, and bringing in 80m for Haaland. I probably undervalued him... but no-one was biting at 90m the year before so :shrug:.

Near the end of the window there was some very big news from the Etihad - Phil Foden had been transfer listed as surplus to requirements. 40m was enough to get him through the door just before the deadline. We now had a revitalised spine, with Derby's Vincent Tumber having joined in January and looking to be an absolute rock in the centre of defence.

1.1 was back, and we started free-scoring. It's not been perfect - we've lost to both Manchester clubs in the league and been knocked out of the League Cup by Arsenal, gratingly. But at the 1/3 mark of the season we're 2nd from City, just a point behind, and we won 6 from 6 in the CL group stage. We've handed out a couple of shellackings (Brighton and Watford domestically, and Roma in the CL), which my 4231 didn't ever do. It's a promising start, and if we can survive without too many heavy injuries, we should be well placed moving on in the season.

Sounds promising.

I've still only played 1 and a half seasons in FM2020 in total, so it's early days yet.

Edited by FuSS

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League 1 Salford's European adventure is sadly over -  we deserved to win this came, a goal, 4 CCs and hit the post, only to be knocked out on penalties :'(

At the end of the day my passing completion rate was far too low, so we have only ourselves to blame.

20200510125725_1.thumb.jpg.0a2addf2465e7206b90ca6e328d89978.jpg

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Posted (edited)

We did grab a league cup giant killing though :)

Edited by FuSS

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Okay, so let's take a match from start to finish!

League Cup Final - Salford (1st League One) VS Liverpool (2nd Premier League)

How did I select my lineup? 

20200510142256_1.thumb.jpg.26514e797d74db959308552b3e57ee2c.jpg

  • I didn't just pick my best players, that would be a mistake for such a big game.
  • I expected a very physical game using OIs, so they had to have almost 100% fitness, that ment dropping some first choice players (such as Trincao and Garner) as they were at less than 95%.
  • I didn't pick my usual defensive pairing, but instead went for players that were faster, knowing Liverpool like to play over the top.
  • I choose players that enjoyed big games, this can be seen in the coaches reports, see Cocha below (he wouldn't ususaly be first choice, but big game players tend to overperform on big games!).

20200510141400_1.thumb.jpg.69799e50280c4e80f3dedf5b3d48b6cd.jpg

 

How did I do my team talk?

20200510143029_1.thumb.jpg.3aa68c1fd92b8bb01de3e0cf659842a6.jpg

  • This one was easy. "Calm" and "underdogs" got my the above positive response.
  • I them selected those players that didn't respond and went with "Calm" and "have faith" - everyone but Pellegrini responded well.
  • Pellegrini is a new loan from the January window and has yet to adapt to my team talk style, so I don't expect much response from him yet (I would have used Brewster but he's on loan from Liverpool and so ineligible)

20200510143209_1.thumb.jpg.bf6cc1a3d3d546058663f67804d870b5.jpg

 

Onto the match!

  • I stayed with a "Positive" mentality as Liverpool push a lot of men forward, therefore switching to a "Cautious" mentality would lead to me getting boxed in far too easily.
  • I knew I'd have to use OIs from the very beginning against a team like Liverpool (hence my expectations earlier of a very physical game).
  • I set my OIs up to essentially target any attacking players, like the below.
  • You'll notice I don't target the DCs or DMC, that because they tend to stay deep for Liverpool and that would pull my players out of position way too far up the field.
  • If you do this, you need to update your OIs for every substitue, otherwise you'll create gaps.

20200510141218_1.thumb.jpg.f0b6eaa792182658f3d60ebce2d76b49.jpg

Shouts

  • As per my page 1 instructions, I rotated shouts as soon as the previous shout's effect worn off.

Adapting

  • Liverpool have center backs that are far better at jumping, heading and positioning than anyone on my team - Therefore whipped crosses and wingplay were not going to work in this instance.
  • Instead I switched my team to play through the middle.
  • The result speaks for itself.
  • My big game players had great matches.
  • We scored from through-balls down the middle.
  • And my specially selected defensive pairing did their job.
  • Even bloody Pellegrini did well!

Ignore the whole on m right wing, I lost a player to injury right at the end of the match and it wasn't worth changing it.

20200510141605_1.thumb.jpg.43d44cabe7fbc8e3d66f08f858d5f720.jpg

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, FuSS said:

Er, you've answered you own question in the last sentence - you're using players that aren't suitable for the tactic!

I think you misunderstood mate, my players were perfectly suited for their roles and positions with 1.2. Leicester's core squad fits your tactic well on paper, plus I had a lot of lucky signings.

It was the alternative tactic (not 1.1 or 1.2) that I switched to mid-season that they weren't suited for. It somehow got us on a win streak to push from 9th to 3rd and to the CL and FA cup finals.

 

ps. just noticed you said you've only played 1 1/2 seasons, it was in my 3rd season that 1.2 started having problems

Edited by nyte`

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2 hours ago, nyte` said:

I think you misunderstood mate, my players were perfectly suited for their roles and positions with 1.2. Leicester's core squad fits your tactic well on paper, plus I had a lot of lucky signings.

It was the alternative tactic (not 1.1 or 1.2) that I switched to mid-season that they weren't suited for. It somehow got us on a win streak to push from 9th to 3rd and to the CL and FA cup finals.

 

ps. just noticed you said you've only played 1 1/2 seasons, it was in my 3rd season that 1.2 started having problems

Ah, my apologies I did miss that.

It's good to know that th tactics did well for you for a couple of seasons - I tend to find any tactic needs small tweaks each season to stop the AI essentially knowing exactly how you will play, although a small tweak here and there each year will usually breath new life into any tactic.

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Posted (edited)

A few thoughts on post-match team talks. I mainly use FuSS' pre/mid-match talks, for guidance:

Defeat/draw with a bad performance - Aggressive, not good enough, we should have won that (tends to generate the 'locked in the dressing room' news item)

Win with a poor performance against a smaller/weaker team - Assertive, bit of a let off

Win with a poor performance against a comparable/bigger team - Calm, good win

Win with a good performance (most/all players over 7.0) - Calm, happy with result and performance

Win in a derby match/cup final - Passionate, good win/happy with result and performance depending on player ratings (I can't say that I've noticed much of a difference using Passionate, but it seems appropriate to be a bit more emotional for these matches)

I rarely get a draw/loss coupled with a good performance, but I would probably calmly use the note that goes something like "Despite the result, I was pleased with your performance" assuming a league match.

*

Cup matches tend to have special pre-match notes available, especially at the later stages or in two-legged ties. I'm always a bit wary of these as the players don't seem to respond predictably to them. One that I find almost always get a positive response is assertively delivering the one that goes something like "Play like you're starting at 0-0" when defending a lead from the first leg.

One other thing FuSS mentioned is that players take time to settle in the squad, and their responsiveness to team talks is an indicator of that. I've had Matthijs de Ligt in my team for almost three seasons now, and it's taken him until this season to start to respond with the team to team talks rather than giving no response, although he seems to be an extreme example.

*

I'm into January using 1.1, and have just knocked off Juventus 7-1 on aggregate in the CL. Still playing nip-and-tuck with City at the top of the league with just a point between us. Other notable results include a 5-2 win over Chelsea, and a match against Brentford where we were 6-0 up after 33 minutes (it finished 7-1, because FM). So I'm sticking with this unless there's an unexpected collapse; Strengthening the squad seems to have staved off any issues with the AI learning the tactic, and I picked up Dayot Upamecano from Liverpool on loan in January, just in case de Ligt gets injured. Given that Klopp's just been sacked with them 15 points back in 4th, loaning out their best centre back was a bold move. Strange, but bold...

Edited by Majick

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End of season update, having run the whole season from pre to post with v1.1

First up: Premier League champions - our second title in seven seasons, and at the end a comfortable victory as Man City took just 5 points from their last 5 games to finish 7 points off the pace, having led for 27 of the 33 rounds prior. Still, we took 40 points from our last 14 games - ultimately an irresistible run of form. We were top scorers with 102, and had the 3rd best defence with 30.

We also added our final missing trophy as we claimed the FA Cup for the first time, beating Man City 3-0 in the final. After coming close a couple of times before, this was a stroll in the May sunshine; City had a player sent off late on, but by that point we'd already used all our subs to allow ever-presents Winks, Dier and Davies to add one more winners' medal to their collections.

PSG knocked us out of the CL at the semi-final on away goals. We only scored 2 own goals all season but, this being FM, one of them came in this tie, at home, in the second leg :mad: We also badly missed the injured left wing pair of Ryan Sessegnon and Jadon Sancho, who between them were responsible for 33 goals and 19 assists across the season. As I've previously found, wingplay is important to this system - as well as Sancho and Sessegnon, Jarred Bowen and Kingsley Coman delivered 16 goals and 16 assists from the right. Barceloanee Manuel also delivered 3/1 in just 9 appearances.

But goals and assists came from all over the team - Harry Kane and Troy Parrott delivered 39/9 up front between them, which I thought was a pleasing return given that in previous seasons the formation hasn't favoured strikers too much. Our midfielders delivered 34 goals and 32 assists. Our fullbacks delivered 10 goals and 36 assists (fullbacks picking up opposing wingers is definitely a consistent theme), and our centrebacks had 22/6 with Matthijs de Ligt and regen Vincent Tumber both featuring in our top 10 scorers with 16 between them.

Our goalkeepers did okay - Nubel as our senior keeper kept 22 clean sheets in 44 appearances, conceding 31. His deputy, a regen signed from Ajax, played 19, conceded 11 and kept 10 clean sheets. I have no worries over either of them, but in an awful lot of matches we pummelled teams so badly they had little or nothing to do - so both ended up with ratings in the 6.8s.

Onwards to next season and more MiNiMaL FuSS... but first a close season where I try and bring myself to start letting our ageing squad rejuvenate as 11 of the 23 are 29 or older. Even discounting a couple who have plenty of miles left, it wasn't the best bit of long-term planning to have a 1/3 of my squad age out at the same time. Still, given the success we've had along the way, it's hard to feel I've erred too badly - and I do have a season or two left in most of them... I hope!

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1 hour ago, Majick said:

End of season update, having run the whole season from pre to post with v1.1

First up: Premier League champions - our second title in seven seasons, and at the end a comfortable victory as Man City took just 5 points from their last 5 games to finish 7 points off the pace, having led for 27 of the 33 rounds prior. Still, we took 40 points from our last 14 games - ultimately an irresistible run of form. We were top scorers with 102, and had the 3rd best defence with 30.

We also added our final missing trophy as we claimed the FA Cup for the first time, beating Man City 3-0 in the final. After coming close a couple of times before, this was a stroll in the May sunshine; City had a player sent off late on, but by that point we'd already used all our subs to allow ever-presents Winks, Dier and Davies to add one more winners' medal to their collections.

PSG knocked us out of the CL at the semi-final on away goals. We only scored 2 own goals all season but, this being FM, one of them came in this tie, at home, in the second leg :mad: We also badly missed the injured left wing pair of Ryan Sessegnon and Jadon Sancho, who between them were responsible for 33 goals and 19 assists across the season. As I've previously found, wingplay is important to this system - as well as Sancho and Sessegnon, Jarred Bowen and Kingsley Coman delivered 16 goals and 16 assists from the right. Barceloanee Manuel also delivered 3/1 in just 9 appearances.

But goals and assists came from all over the team - Harry Kane and Troy Parrott delivered 39/9 up front between them, which I thought was a pleasing return given that in previous seasons the formation hasn't favoured strikers too much. Our midfielders delivered 34 goals and 32 assists. Our fullbacks delivered 10 goals and 36 assists (fullbacks picking up opposing wingers is definitely a consistent theme), and our centrebacks had 22/6 with Matthijs de Ligt and regen Vincent Tumber both featuring in our top 10 scorers with 16 between them.

Our goalkeepers did okay - Nubel as our senior keeper kept 22 clean sheets in 44 appearances, conceding 31. His deputy, a regen signed from Ajax, played 19, conceded 11 and kept 10 clean sheets. I have no worries over either of them, but in an awful lot of matches we pummelled teams so badly they had little or nothing to do - so both ended up with ratings in the 6.8s.

Onwards to next season and more MiNiMaL FuSS... but first a close season where I try and bring myself to start letting our ageing squad rejuvenate as 11 of the 23 are 29 or older. Even discounting a couple who have plenty of miles left, it wasn't the best bit of long-term planning to have a 1/3 of my squad age out at the same time. Still, given the success we've had along the way, it's hard to feel I've erred too badly - and I do have a season or two left in most of them... I hope!

Thank you for the story of another season :)

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Afternoon all,

I've been watching lots of full games looking for areas to tweak.

I want to lose the Mezzala, I feel he spends too much time in similar positions to the IF(S) on the right.

A CM(A) would be the obvious choice, ideally arriving late in the box to add another dynamic to play, especially when the ball gets bogged down up top.

Any thoughts?

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On 14/05/2020 at 19:05, FuSS said:

Afternoon all,

I've been watching lots of full games looking for areas to tweak.

I want to lose the Mezzala, I feel he spends too much time in similar positions to the IF(S) on the right.

A CM(A) would be the obvious choice, ideally arriving late in the box to add another dynamic to play, especially when the ball gets bogged down up top.

Any thoughts?

 

Maybe a Box to box midfielder? 

I'm playing Milan at the moment and Kessié would fit this rol perfectly, amongst Paqueta (AP) with Bennacer (DM). I also have Tonali, do you think I could easily change the DM role to DLP, or will it decrease the efficiency of the tactic as a whole?

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Just seen you got back fuss!

Been waiting for this a long time now, starting a new save.

life begins again.

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On 16/05/2020 at 16:14, Karlo said:

 

Maybe a Box to box midfielder? 

I'm playing Milan at the moment and Kessié would fit this rol perfectly, amongst Paqueta (AP) with Bennacer (DM). I also have Tonali, do you think I could easily change the DM role to DLP, or will it decrease the efficiency of the tactic as a whole?

I'm not a fan of the box-to-box in FM20, I find they tend to go missing. 

Sadly a DLP role does not work, because the FBs are so attacking the DLP tends to leave the defense over exposed. That said, if you're DPL has good defensive attributes (Tackling, marking, heading) then they will do well in the DMC(support) role. My DMC often has the highest passing rate in any given match.

 

On 17/05/2020 at 00:48, Vspec1 said:

Just seen you got back fuss!

Been waiting for this a long time now, starting a new save.

life begins again.

Thanks! 

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2 hours ago, FuSS said:

I'm not a fan of the box-to-box in FM20, I find they tend to go missing. 

Sadly a DLP role does not work, because the FBs are so attacking the DLP tends to leave the defense over exposed. That said, if you're DPL has good defensive attributes (Tackling, marking, heading) then they will do well in the DMC(support) role. My DMC often has the highest passing rate in any given match.


I did try it... ;) only changed the MEZ to BBM:
 

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.0bd4fff781d742efc0c53b49b49f325c.png


The football is very nice to watch, much more 'smooth' than the well-known working tactics. The only thing that's alarming is the lack of goals, especially from the striker. 

BBM - 6 goals
PF - 6 goals
DLC - 3 goals
AP - 3 goals

AML - 4 assists
BBM - 4 assists
DM - 4 assists
DR - 3 assists
AP - 3 assists

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Karlo said:


I did try it... ;) only changed the MEZ to BBM:
 

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The football is very nice to watch, much more 'smooth' than the well-known working tactics. The only thing that's alarming is the lack of goals, especially from the striker. 

BBM - 6 goals
PF - 6 goals
DLC - 3 goals
AP - 3 goals

AML - 4 assists
BBM - 4 assists
DM - 4 assists
DR - 3 assists
AP - 3 assists

I might tinker with a box-to-box.

So far I'm finding the Mez is the only player that is attacking enough from the middle of the park. It's such a shame that the game doesn't allow Attacking Midfielders in the middle (ala Frank Lampard).

 

My strikers do okay, buy on the whole my IFs score most of the goals, the striker is mostly there to play like a False-9 and create space. I've not had a problem with goals at all, but you certainly do need you're team to be fluid with the tactic and having well developed partnerships makes a world of difference.

 

Oh, and I find 1.1 better than 1.2 (dline the only difference) - in fact I might remove 1.2 from the thread all together.

Edited by FuSS

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49 minutes ago, FuSS said:

I might tinker with a box-to-box.

So far I'm finding the Mez is the only player that is attacking enough from the middle of the park. It's such a shame that the game doesn't allow Attacking Midfielders in the middle (ala Frank Lampard).

 

My strikers do okay, buy on the whole my IFs score most of the goals, the striker is mostly there to play like a False-9 and create space. I've not had a problem with goals at all, but you certainly do need you're team to be fluid with the tactic and having well developed partnerships makes a world of difference.

 

Oh, and I find 1.1 better than 1.2 (dline the only difference) - in fact I might remove 1.2 from the thread all together.


You might be right about the BBM.

I have compared a number of heatmaps of matches with a BBM and an MEZ and although a BBM plays with mentality 'support' and an MEZ with an attacking mentality, you clearly saw that the BBM was much more attacking, often also in the areas where the AMR was must be located. The MEZ moves a bit more straightforward, without deviating too much to the right.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Karlo said:


You might be right about the BBM.

I have compared a number of heatmaps of matches with a BBM and an MEZ and although a BBM plays with mentality 'support' and an MEZ with an attacking mentality, you clearly saw that the BBM was much more attacking, often also in the areas where the AMR was must be located. The MEZ moves a bit more straightforward, without deviating too much to the right.

Give a CM(A) a go (get further forward added).

I'm also experimenting by simple removing "Work ball into box" in an effort to stop the ball getting bogged down in the opposition box so often, the shots-on-target ratio will go down, but there should also be more goals scored.

 

Edited by FuSS

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So far I like it quite well. The CM covers the same areas of the field as he did as MEZ, so I don't really notice much difference there.

The results with the updated V1.1, as you can see quite a few draws, but that could also be due to my mediocre team.
 

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.2896e8beca5b3a281d4603527ef3e78f.png


 

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I've had quite a bit of time to experiment today and am getting closer to settling on a third version.

 

You're welcome to give this a spin: FuSSfilment R1.3 BETA.fmf

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@FuSSI'm near the end of my season and have won the title already so will give this a go in our remaining games and let you know.
I must admit I didn't have too much success with either 1.1 or 1.2 though.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Earnie is God! said:

@FuSSI'm near the end of my season and have won the title already so will give this a go in our remaining games and let you know.
I must admit I didn't have too much success with either 1.1 or 1.2 though.

Go for it.

Although I usually find that once your team have won the league they pretty much down tools and stop playing well for the remaining games.

Edited by FuSS

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Ah, getting your excuses in early eh? I like it ;)

Five games remaining in the season in League Two and they are:

[Away, 20th position] Leyton Orient
[H, 11th] Swindon
[A, 22nd] Morecambe
[H, 8th] Chesterfield
[A, 10th] Wrexham

Tactical familiarity is decent enough, if not excellent
20200519160329_1.thumb.jpg.566ebf3f158b44cc23b631a1e56d7bd1.jpg

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11 minutes ago, Earnie is God! said:

Ah, getting your excuses in early eh? I like it ;)

Five games remaining in the season in League Two and they are:

[Away, 20th position] Leyton Orient
[H, 11th] Swindon
[A, 22nd] Morecambe
[H, 8th] Chesterfield
[A, 10th] Wrexham

Tactical familiarity is decent enough, if not excellent
20200519160329_1.thumb.jpg.566ebf3f158b44cc23b631a1e56d7bd1.jpg

Haha, no need for excuses, 1.1 and 1.2 were hugely successful, just trying to get a few more goals without upsetting the balance.

Suffice to say it's working for me!

20200519161742_1.thumb.jpg.1ecedc00f56d9fee1cd2d956a381793c.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Wow, most exciting game I've ever seen, had to share!

FA Cup Semi-Final against Watford - we've beaten bigger teams to get here, but teams that counter on the break are a bit of a weakness.

  • 1min: Watford 1-0 Salford - dreadful start, route-one ball over the top and a goal for "Joao Pedro".
  • 14min: Watford 2-0 Salford - it just gets worse, long diagonal ball just past our LB and "Joao Pedro" beats the offside trap.
  • 24min: Watford 2-1 Salford - there's some hope,  "Munteanu" takes the ball off a dithering centre back and slides it home.
  • 45+2min: Watford 2-1 Salford - a penalty awarded, our top scorer and loanee from Barcelona "Francisco Trincao" steps up, saved!
  • 51min: Watford 3-1 Salford - surely it's all over, another long diagonal ball and "Joao Pedro" beats the offside trap once again, hat trick.
  • 87min: Watford 3-2 Salford - we've been throwing everything forward, there's a lucky deflection on a corner and our top scorer "Francisco Trincao" is there to volley it home, is there hope?
  • 88min: Watford 3-3 Salford - we're level! "Munteanu" is the hero as he gets on the end of a square ball and cooly slides it under the keeper.
  • 100min: Watford 3-4 Salford - we beat them at their own game, a long diagonal ball and "Dylan Levitt" beats their LB and buries it on the half-volley.
  • 105+1min: Watford 3-5 Salford - "Munteanu" grabs his own hat trick, a simple whipped cross and he heads it home.
  • 106min: Watford 3-6 Salford - here's the Salford we all paid to see! A whipped cross from our LB finds the feet of "Francisco Trincao", who cooly slots it into the bottom corner.
  • 117min: Watford 3-7 Salford - minutes from defeat, Salford turn it into a pasting, "Munteanu" refuses to be outshone by anyone else, latching onto a simple through-ball for his 4th.
     

Suffice to say if I'd bothered to look at Raul Prada (CD-L) and Andy Harwood's (FB-L) coaching reports properly I'd have seen that neither of them enjoys big games.

Massive mistakes on my part and important lesson as the two of them were completely responsible for the first two goals that we conceded.

Just goes to demonstrate how overlooking one little thing can completely ruin any tactic!!

 

20200519163359_1.thumb.jpg.148cd9ebee26a53914c9e7b2c02719d6.jpg

Edited by FuSS

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Early impressions: Defensively looks very solid, as your results would suggest. I also seem to be getting a lot of possession. A number of chances created without necessarily many CCCs. Not scoring too many just yet

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23 minutes ago, FuSS said:

Wow, most exciting game I've ever seen, had to share!

FA Cup Semi-Final against Watford - we've beaten bigger teams to get here, but teams that counter on the break are a bit of a weakness.

  • 1min: Watford 1-0 Salford - dreadful start, route-one ball over the top and a goal for "Joao Pedro".
  • 14min: Watford 2-0 Salford - it just gets worse, long diagonal ball just past our LB and "Joao Pedro" beats the offside trap.
  • 24min: Watford 2-1 Salford - there's some hope,  "Munteanu" takes the ball off a dithering centre back and slides it home.
  • 45+2min: Watford 2-1 Salford - a penalty awarded, our top scorer and loanee from Barcelona "Francisco Trincao" steps up, saved!
  • 51min: Watford 3-1 Salford - surely it's all over, another long diagonal ball and "Joao Pedro" beats the offside trap once again, hat trick.
  • 87min: Watford 3-2 Salford - we've been throwing everything forward, there's a lucky deflection on a corner and our top scorer "Francisco Trincao" is there to volley it home, is there hope?
  • 88min: Watford 3-3 Salford - we're level! "Munteanu" is the hero as he gets on the end of a square ball and cooly slides it under the keeper.
  • 100min: Watford 3-4 Salford - we beat them at their own game, a long diagonal ball and "Dylan Levitt" beats their LB and buries it on the half-volley.
  • 105+1min: Watford 3-5 Salford - "Munteanu" grabs his own hat trick, a simple whipped cross and he heads it home.
  • 106min: Watford 3-6 Salford - here's the Salford we all paid to see! A whipped cross from our LB finds the feet of "Francisco Trincao", who cooly slots it into the bottom corner.
  • 117min: Watford 3-7 Salford - minutes from defeat, Salford turn it into a pasting, "Munteanu" refuses to be outshone by anyone else, latching onto a simple through-ball for his 4th.
     

Suffice to say if I'd bothered to look at Raul Prada (CD-L) and Andy Harwood's (FB-L) coaching reports properly I'd have seen that neither of them enjoys big games.

Massive mistakes on my part and important lesson as the two of them were completely responsible for the first two goals that we conceded.

Just goes to demonstrate how overlooking one little thing can completely ruin any tactic!!

 

20200519163359_1.thumb.jpg.148cd9ebee26a53914c9e7b2c02719d6.jpg

what tactic, @FuSS? 1.3 beta? 

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Just now, ElComandante said:

what tactic, @FuSS? 1.3 beta? 

Yep.

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0-0 [A, 20th] Leyton Orient
1-0 [H, 11th] Swindon
1-1 [A, 22nd] Morecambe
1-0 [H, 8th] Chesterfield
5-0 [A, 10th] Wrexham

20200519191825_1.thumb.jpg.40f1d9dd5ed1853f7aa50c8348c212de.jpg20200519191833_1.thumb.jpg.5bf5cb7605f393fb908996b1415b4099.jpg20200519191849_1.thumb.jpg.bb8d13d6fbc1bf98ac777cc0ccdaf946.jpg
20200519191900_1.thumb.jpg.3b3cefd7e1bd775b9d0e33b4e2c1e7b8.jpg20200519191907_1.thumb.jpg.4b005fd4908a3e3cb9cc0f18af7f983c.jpg

3 wins and 2 draws, with just the one goal conceded and that was an injury time equaliser.
Great defensively but slightly annoying that, except for the final match, we didn't really convert our chances.
I noticed that the right-sided CM often got poor ratings even though my CMs are probably the best players at the club.
Looking into it at HT in our final game at Wrexham, he was on a 6.4 rating. I don't really like the combined instructions of 'Take More Risks' and 'Shoot More Often' as that is likely to lead to giving the ball away more often and some wayward shots.
I removed 'Take More Risks' and his HT 6.4 rating turned into a 9.1 by FT, aided by a goal.
It also helped change a 1-0 HT lead into a 5-0 win so it doesn't seem to have affected our ability to create chances.

20200519192308_1.thumb.jpg.0fdd784ba82828351e64efb8e033fbe0.jpg20200519191731_1.thumb.jpg.44440308e6f94a0731557c73dffeac38.jpg

Of course, 45min is by no means long enough to judge but unfortunately, that's the end of my season so will have to wait until the next one to see if it can continue.
I should also say that I don't currently have an ideal left-sided IF but do have a couple of options coming through the youth system so if/when they get into the 1st team, it should work better.
Not sure I'm entirely happy with the PF either and may change that role but that's probably more to do with having strikers more suited to being AF, P or DLF.

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I also like not receiving many bookings, something I've struggled with before now.

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Looks very promising for the first 5 with a new tactic, team seems to be growing into it.

I'll try the CM without "takes more risks", that's the main position I'm still playing with, so open to adapting it.

PF isn't my favourite, but he does open up a lot of space for the IFs, I've not found any other forward type that does that. My main PF is actually an advanced forward by trade, took him nearly half a season to adapt to the role and then just seemed to click into it, so worth sticking with it.

Great defensively!

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Well, here are my strikers. Marsh is by far my best, Bearne I've been using as an IF on the right, Ackroyd has hardly featured and the other two have been away on loan.
None of them are suited to the PF role

20200520011729_1.thumb.jpg.8b6a1ac16c03663bd277c29ce8f44078.jpg20200520011739_1.thumb.jpg.f4d8d37e7ad16d04397baea35559abb3.jpg20200520011747_1.thumb.jpg.43dcaafc8ff4f94ae76ac9ab7c4d0872.jpg
20200520011800_1.thumb.jpg.a980585a13e8bb37492c8bb5da629250.jpg20200520011813_1.thumb.jpg.ec877322a0edb7da675ca868e030aaf9.jpg

The only one who might be is Walsh who I spent two seasons retraining and playing as a CB. But we've had successive promotions since and he's not really good enough to get in the squad anywhere, even though my coaches tell me he still can improve quite a bit. I may start the season with him as my PF if I can't get anyone better.

20200520011701_1.thumb.jpg.bca269efaf0d96a672701b0a9101b952.jpg

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played minimal fuss back in fm05 or something. it was a 442 with target man and poacher, it was the version where klose was the best target man and mauro Zarate ran riot. gonna give this a go.

 

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7 hours ago, Earnie is God! said:

Well, here are my strikers. Marsh is by far my best, Bearne I've been using as an IF on the right, Ackroyd has hardly featured and the other two have been away on loan.
None of them are suited to the PF role

The only one who might be is Walsh who I spent two seasons retraining and playing as a CB. But we've had successive promotions since and he's not really good enough to get in the squad anywhere, even though my coaches tell me he still can improve quite a bit. I may start the season with him as my PF if I can't get anyone better.

 

You don't actually need a Pressing Forward in the Pressing Forward role.

All FM's rating system does is tell you who's good at that singular type of role - not who will fit into it in the wider overall context of the complete tactic.

You're after a Complete Forward to play in the Pressing Forward role.

Being a Complete Forward will give him the stats I want, but the role choice will put him where I want and have the rest of the team move around him in the way I want.

That said if you can find a complete forward who is also good as a pressing forward it certainly wouldn't hurt!

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Urotsukidoji said:

played minimal fuss back in fm05 or something. it was a 442 with target man and poacher, it was the version where klose was the best target man and mauro Zarate ran riot. gonna give this a go.

 

07 I think!

Yeah I broke the game that year, that tactic had something like a million downloads, it was nuts!

Edited by FuSS

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18 ore fa, FuSS ha scritto:

Haha, no need for excuses, 1.1 and 1.2 were hugely successful, just trying to get a few more goals without upsetting the balance.

Suffice to say it's working for me!

20200519161742_1.thumb.jpg.1ecedc00f56d9fee1cd2d956a381793c.jpg

This screen in Amazing. Tons of goals scored and very few conceded.

Killed Tottenham, Chelsea, Liverpool,  Anderlecht 6-0 away.

I don't believe IFs bring good results in FM20 but i am really thinking to try once again

 

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Posted (edited)

This is just a test, i don't want to say this tactic does not work or something else, i only want to share my experience.
I have played half season with Everton on FMT, signed on load Almada and Dest , no IR,  no holiday mode.
I have struggled so much to create ccc and to score in general, the average ratings of my striker and If's is very low.

 

 

everton 1.PNG

everton 2.PNG

everton 4.PNG

everton 5.PNG

everton 6.PNG

everton 7.PNG

Edited by radetzky

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Posted (edited)

Afraid I can't be of much help, FMT isn't the same game, I really don't know much about it, sorry!

Generally speaking it looks like 27 played, 16 won, 6 draws, 5 losses - most of your problems come in a distinct period after getting thumped by Norwich. Where you start losing away from home, which tells me you need to change something away from home, without having an analysis of your team I can't say what. After such a loss you do need to re-ignite your team though, speak to them all individually, consolidate defensively for a a game or two. You can't just do the same again after a loss, no team in real life would do that, you have to manage them and adapt.

 

Edited by FuSS

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Posted (edited)

Something I always take as a good sign of the tactic's progress.

My under 23's got promoted without the help of any first team players (unlike Norwich who have several senior players in the squad, cheats!)

20200520174147_1.thumb.jpg.86ed4bd337588b1caf5026d30a635682.jpg

This is their best player:

20200520174400_1.thumb.jpg.26b0600e3b5b9e38f34592c686a68ca3.jpg

The new manager is pretty exciting!

20200520174954_1.thumb.jpg.11384cc12489719a5101dfc7b5e7929a.jpg

Edited by FuSS

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1: Your tactic 1.2 is top I won everything with Lyon thank you 

2: I test your new tactic with Liverpool the collective result is very good but the states of Firmino are bad while he has the perfect attributes for the role
I win every match with 3 or 5 goals scored but firmino almost does not get a goal opportunity only 32 shots in 20 games
while salah and mane we already exceeded 90 shots

1.PNG

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10 minutes ago, manuol86 said:

1: Your tactic 1.2 is top I won everything with Lyon thank you 

2: I test your new tactic with Liverpool the collective result is very good but the states of Firmino are bad while he has the perfect attributes for the role
I win every match with 3 or 5 goals scored but firmino almost does not get a goal opportunity only 32 shots in 20 games
while salah and mane we already exceeded 90 shots

1.PNG

Thank you for your post.

Great to hear you're smashing it!

There's actually been no changes to the striker from 1.2 to 1.3, so it might just be a run of bad form - if any of my players hit a rough patch I make sure they take the next penalty to get them up and running again, usually helps!

I am still playing with the striker settings though, so watch this space!

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