Help needed in balancing a counter tactic

[Beren]

Hi guys,

Thank you in advance for any help that will be given.

I'm managing Partick Thistle in Ladbrokes Championship. Being newly promoted I thought I'd set up a counter tactic; anyway, having had little success in doing so in last FMs (I'm playing FM19 now), I thought I'd ask for your opinion on what I've developed so far.

I have tried the setup for a number of friendlies, but I still have to test it in competitive matches. I've been content with the defensive solidity, though I've played mostly against weaker sides. Still, I'm not seeing the kind of fast paced-played into space football I wanted.

Now for the tactic:

Gk-d

Fb-a cd-d cd-d wb-s

Dw-s b2b-s dlp-s iw-a

Ss-a

Pf-a

Cautious

Pass into space

Counter, distribute quickly

Defend narrower, more urgent

 

The thought behind all this was that I wanted a low, vertically and horizontally compact side that would defend in numbers and then launch quick counters mostly with combination between the ss-a (the most talented players) and the pf-a, with wide support from the wide players and the eventual late run from the b2b. 

Firstly I set up the dlp to be on defend duty, but then I saw that with a cautious mentality he would be on a very defensive mentality, and I didn't want him so only-defensive minded. So I tweaked him to be on s. Still I'm not sure if the dlp is a good choice for a counter attacking side, though that's his best suited role and he was great last season playing as a dlp in a slightly different tactic (and the lower level of football...).

I'd have loved to play a bpd-d to launch counters, but I don't think I have the personnel, so I kept the standard cd.

Another thing is: I have a strong and tall striker who likes to play as a TM-A, would you recommend the role for a counter tactic? I'm not sure.

Thank you all in advance, I'd like to know what's your opinion and if you have had any success with a tactic of this kind.

If you want screenshots that's no problem, but right now I'm on my smartphone. Anyway, lately today I might be able to provide some for you so feel free to ask.

Cheers!

[Experienced Defender]

You absolutely do not need to play on the cautious (or any defensive) team mentality in order to play counter-attacking football. Moreover, you are more likely to create a successful counter-minded tactic under a slightly higher mentality (positive or balanced for example), because higher mentalities encourage faster attacking transitions, which are vital for counter-oriented styles of play.

The key thing is to make your team compact in defense so that you would be hard to break down, and once the opposition has been drawn into your half - you aggressively look to win the ball and launch the counter. 

If you want a concrete example of a tactic that can help you achieve this, please let me know.  

[Beren]

Thanks, ED.

I know that it is possible, I just thought that implementing a cautious (sometimes I play balanced) mentality could help me achieve a more risk-free, launch from the back type of play; I hoped that by setting 4 players with an attacking ment. and - for example - deleting the defensive of the dlp, I could in a sense achieve counter runs and fast transitions. Then I thought that the dlp and the wannabe bpd, along with the sk would launch the ball in the space for them to catch.

Please tell me how would you set up in order to be compact in defence and hard to break down, I'd love to know some more.

And yes, thank you very much, an example tactic would be greatly appreciated in order to draw inspiration from it.

[Robson 07]

You can make it work from the mentality you have chosen.

Biggest problem I see is that if you are starting from there and looking to play cautiously out of a low block then you have chosen too many attack (4) duties.  I reckon you need 2, or 3 at the most.  A good starting point is to change that attacking full back into something like a wing-back defend.  One other thing, add some tempo.

Just a couple of changes, you're not a million miles away.

[Beren]

Thanks Robson for the reply.

I've thought about the A mentalities. Don't know about it, because on a Cautious mentality having less than 3-4 ppl with A, could mean (my idea) that everybody stays back in order to avoid risk. But when we get the ball and the opportunity arises, I want the right people (i.e. those with A) to run forward and support the counter.

Yes, this could also be achieved playing on positive or attacking and in that case I would use maybe 2 or 3 attacking and maybe 4 defending.

Anyway, that's a good point and I'll try and develop it and also your suggestion about the wb.

I'd also like to implement a iwb on support in those kinds of systems , but not sure how to make it work. Does somebody have ideas?

Thank you again.

[Robson 07]

Try all those ideas, it's the best way to see for yourself.  My only caveat would be to try them one at a time, that way you get to see the effect of each over the period of a few games and whether or not they work.  For example, if you changed that fullback as per my suggestion but then changed the Team Mentality at the same time the two things might not be complimentary.

[Experienced Defender]

15 hours ago, Beren said:

Please tell me how would you set up in order to be compact in defence and hard to break down, I'd love to know some more.

And yes, thank you very much, an example tactic would be greatly appreciated in order to draw inspiration from it

No problem mate. And btw, I like your line of reasoning - drawing inspiration from an example instead of copy-pasting it  

So let's see how I would set up a counter-attacking tactic using the 4411 formation and taking into account this question from you: 

On 12/04/2020 at 11:08, Beren said:

I have a strong and tall striker who likes to play as a TM-A, would you recommend the role for a counter tactic?

 TMat

SS

IWsu    CMde    BBM     Wsu

FBat    CDde  CDde    FBsu

GK/SKde

Mentality - Balanced

In possession - higher tempo, pass into space, hit early crosses

In transition - counter (may not even need to be used all the time)

Out of possession - lower LOE, get stuck in

NOTE: Bear in mind that for a counter-attacking style you need to have at least reasonably fast forwards and wingers. 

[Beren]

That's fantastic ED I think I couldn't have set it up any better (but probably you already know that ). Thanks for the inspiration, I think I'll try something like that and see how that goes. Unfortunately one of my wingers broke his wrist so I was in a bit of a mess tactically, but on the bright side his substitute is playing even better.

Btw I played the first competitive league match, home against Livingston (projected 4th) and I managed to draw 1-1. Their goal came from their attacking winger who completely annihilated my poor fullback on a header, from a cross coming after a throw in :/. Tbh my keeper later had to save two clear chances, but he did that so I was safe.

My goal actually didn't come from a counter, anyway during the match I saw a couple of lovely moves in transition that my striker missed completely (shot in the face of the keeper with all the goal in front wide open). Not able now to take a screen or gif but I'll see what I will be able to do tomorrow. I played this game with the tactic and formation I posted initially, plus the slightly higher tempo added as correctly suggested.

I'll keep you updated and thanks again for the help.

 

 

[Experienced Defender]

3 minutes ago, Beren said:

Btw I played the first competitive league match, home against Livingston (projected 4th) and I managed to draw 1-1. Their goal came from their attacking winger who completely annihilated my poor fullback on a header, from a cross coming after a throw in :/. Tbh my keeper later had to save two clear chances, but he did that so I was safe.

My goal actually didn't come from a counter, anyway during the match I saw a couple of lovely moves in transition that my striker missed completely (shot in the face of the keeper with all the goal in front wide open).

One important thing you need to be aware of when you opt to play a counter-attacking style - it most probably is not going to work in every single match (i.e. against every single opponent). Simply because counter-attacking football requires certain circumstances in order to work (space left by the opposition between/behind their lines in the first place). So I would strongly recommend that you have a plan-B tactic that will not be counter-attacking, but will also not be too different from this one (just a couple of tweaks can make a notable difference).