‘ They peg them back immediately ‘

[darren1589]

And so I find myself back here within a few days with a new problem. I know it’s something I’m doing wrong but I’m literally lost for ideas. 
 

I’m currently Sunderland in the 2nd season. Sitting 3rd after 43 games 3 points off top and 1 point off second. My last 3 games pan out like so... I go 1 up, the other team on the next highlight runs up the park and scores, it happens. I go 2-1 up. I change a few instructions to go more defensive, next highlight they run up the park and score straight away again. This happened in my last 3 league games, all finishing 2-2. I won my playoff semi final 3-0. Playoff final I go 1 up.. they run up the park and score. Into extra time I go, I score on 110 minutes thinking I’ve done it, I shut up shop and low and behold the other team run up the park and score with the next highlight. I luckily won on penalties. My first league game in the championship sees me go 1 up, they run up the park and score and I lose 2-1 which is fine it happens and I’m the promoted team. 
 

my tactic is as follows :

 

                  GK

FB Support    CB (d)  CB (d)     WB Attack

                        Def mid ( d )

              Mezzala ( supp)  DLP ( supp) 

IW (att)                                        IF ( supp)

                               AF 

Team instructions - positive mentality, slightly higher tempo, Counter, 

 

the changes I make when I score range from dropping to balanced, taking off higher tempo, I’ve even brought the attacking wingers back to the MR/ML positions but that hasn’t worked either. 
 

sorry for such a long winded post but I’ve pulling my hair out with this one and need some help  

thanks

[Hilly1979]

The things that jump out to me is the overkill team instructions, your on a positive mentality which comes with higher tempo and then your further increase that through the team instruction.

You have counter activated, it could be that your being caught out when countering.

[darren1589]

Ok i shall give that a try and see if it improves. The tactic has been very successful for me and i deliberately tried to keep the instructions down to a minimum. 

Shall make the changes and see if it improves.

Thanks

[Chip]

I would maybe try not changing anything after you score? If every time you change something, you concede, maybe stop tweaking as much.

Also your left flank looks a bit vulnerable, your wingback will have his work cut out trying to get back to cover that wing

Whats your reasoning for lowering the tempo when you concede? If you were looking to sit back and hit them on the counter, keeping your tempo higher would probably help this

[darren1589]

1 hour ago, Chip said:

I would maybe try not changing anything after you score? If every time you change something, you concede, maybe stop tweaking as much.

Also your left flank looks a bit vulnerable, your wingback will have his work cut out trying to get back to cover that wing

Whats your reasoning for lowering the tempo when you concede? If you were looking to sit back and hit them on the counter, keeping your tempo higher would probably help this

To be totally honest Chip on some of the occasions where it has happened i haven't changed anything and it still happened. I was in a push for the title so when i scored i was too busy celebrating lol then by the time the highlight of my goal finished it jumped straight to the next highlight a minute later and it was the opposite team running up the park and scoring. 

would you suggest dropping the wingback back down to a full back on support in this situation ?

i never know what to do i really don't, it does sometimes come across as damned if you do changed damned if you don't. 

when i score the thinking of lowering the tempo was not rushing the ball forward or around too quickly with the possibility of a miscontrolled pass or poor first touch as my players are not technically gifted yet. 

[Chip]

2 hours ago, darren1589 said:

To be totally honest Chip on some of the occasions where it has happened i haven't changed anything and it still happened. I was in a push for the title so when i scored i was too busy celebrating lol then by the time the highlight of my goal finished it jumped straight to the next highlight a minute later and it was the opposite team running up the park and scoring. 

would you suggest dropping the wingback back down to a full back on support in this situation ?

i never know what to do i really don't, it does sometimes come across as damned if you do changed damned if you don't. 

when i score the thinking of lowering the tempo was not rushing the ball forward or around too quickly with the possibility of a miscontrolled pass or poor first touch as my players are not technically gifted yet. 

What highlights do you watch on? 
 

I think using a WB is good but on support or defend duty as you don’t want him forgetting his defensive duties too much. I don’t use it a lot but on your right side an IWB on support might work nicely (if you have the player to fit it). EDIT: FB on attack may also be a good option

When you score, teams should (not always) open up more as they try to push for an equaliser so using a higher tempo is good for knocking the ball quickly, as well as being more direct and passing into space. This obviously all depends on your players atts

How is the season going overall? Does this happen every game or has it just been a blip? It’s important to remember the team you are, the quality of players you have and that it’s not normal to win every game every week!

Edited April 9, 2020 by Chip

[Chip]

Remember as well you can always pause the game (good for celebrating a goal ) then asses the situation and make changes, if any, as necessary

[Experienced Defender]

15 hours ago, darren1589 said:

my tactic is as follows :

 

                  GK

FB Support    CB (d)  CB (d)     WB Attack

                        Def mid ( d )

              Mezzala ( supp)  DLP ( supp) 

IW (att)                                        IF ( supp)

                               AF 

Team instructions - positive mentality, slightly higher tempo, Counter

Speaking purely of the tactic itself, there are some tweaks that could help improve it. But maybe a more important question - isn't this tactical style a bit too ambitious for the team you are managing, to begin with?

[darren1589]

1 hour ago, Chip said:

What highlights do you watch on? 
 

I think using a WB is good but on support or defend duty as you don’t want him forgetting his defensive duties too much. I don’t use it a lot but on your right side an IWB on support might work nicely (if you have the player to fit it). EDIT: FB on attack may also be a good option

When you score, teams should (not always) open up more as they try to push for an equaliser so using a higher tempo is good for knocking the ball quickly, as well as being more direct and passing into space. This obviously all depends on your players atts

How is the season going overall? Does this happen every game or has it just been a blip? It’s important to remember the team you are, the quality of players you have and that it’s not normal to win every game every week!

I always watch on key highlights to be honest mate, always have done. I had been putting my wing back on attack on the left side purely as my right back was much weaker in that department. I shall take your advice and try that out and see if that makes a difference. Finished 3rd in league one, was neck and neck pretty much the entire season and then fell away in the last few games due to the issues I have wrote about here. Totally blew it. So it only really started the last 4/5 games of the season, and now first league game of the new season in the championship so unfortunately carried on into the new season. I can totally accept not winning each week as I am Sunderland and now in the championship probably expected to finish in the lower half of the league if not battle relegation, but it's this same issue I really want to try and iron out if I can  

 

haha will def need to use that pause button more ! 

[darren1589]

31 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Speaking purely of the tactic itself, there are some tweaks that could help improve it. But maybe a more important question - isn't this tactical style a bit too ambitious for the team you are managing, to begin with?

Would it be possible to share what you think I could tweak to the tactic in order to improve ? would be much appreciated. 

Possibly, I stuck with it as it seemed to work for the best part of the season entering me into a title race so I thought it worked. But I feel I may get found out this season in the championship unless I do something. I tried to take a screen shot of my players to post in the thread but it doesn't appear to be working   

[Chip]

48 minutes ago, darren1589 said:

I always watch on key highlights to be honest mate, always have done. I had been putting my wing back on attack on the left side purely as my right back was much weaker in that department. I shall take your advice and try that out and see if that makes a difference. Finished 3rd in league one, was neck and neck pretty much the entire season and then fell away in the last few games due to the issues I have wrote about here. Totally blew it. So it only really started the last 4/5 games of the season, and now first league game of the new season in the championship so unfortunately carried on into the new season. I can totally accept not winning each week as I am Sunderland and now in the championship probably expected to finish in the lower half of the league if not battle relegation, but it's this same issue I really want to try and iron out if I can  

 

haha will def need to use that pause button more ! 

That’s another problem then mate - using key highlights! You don’t get the full picture watching on key, comprehensive is the best but extended at the very least. From key highlights you can’t see where the opponent is leaving space, where you’re struggling to cope, if you’re creating good enough chances. For all you know in those games you might have been lucky to score the goals you did and should have lost. 
 

It’s tedious but you get used to comprehensive highlights, when you’re doing well in the game and are happy with the way the games going I suppose you could go to extended to speed things up but you must really know your tactic in and out 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, darren1589 said:

Would it be possible to share what you think I could tweak to the tactic in order to improve ? would be much appreciated

In terms of roles and duties, I would (for now) only change the striker's role into PF on attack duty so as to avoid (reduce) the well-known issue of the lone striker's isolation when played in the AF role (especially in this type of tactic). 

When it comes to instructions, the tweaks I would suggest include normal (default) tempo instead of higher (in relation to the team mentality) and using the Counter TI in transition on a situational basis, rather than all time (in order to avoid losing possession needlessly too often). Distribution to CBs and FBs is an instruction you may also consider adding (as a less risky way to encourage building from the back compared to the play out of defence TI). 

So these would be the first couple of tweaks I think could help. There are potentially a couple more, but let's take it step by step, because it's never a good idea to make too many changes at once. 

[darren1589]

53 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

In terms of roles and duties, I would (for now) only change the striker's role into PF on attack duty so as to avoid (reduce) the well-known issue of the lone striker's isolation when played in the AF role (especially in this type of tactic). 

When it comes to instructions, the tweaks I would suggest include normal (default) tempo instead of higher (in relation to the team mentality) and using the Counter TI in transition on a situational basis, rather than all time (in order to avoid losing possession needlessly too often). Distribution to CBs and FBs is an instruction you may also consider adding (as a less risky way to encourage building from the back compared to the play out of defence TI). 

So these would be the first couple of tweaks I think could help. There are potentially a couple more, but let's take it step by step, because it's never a good idea to make too many changes at once. 

Ok I’ll make the changes tonight and report back. Last season I had Brewster on loan from Liverpool and played him in the AF role and he scored 32 goals in all competitions. Could have been due to the lower level him having such a prolific season. Would he suit the PF on attack role do you think ? Have tweaked the distribution to cb’s and fb’s and taken off counter and see how I go. 
 

thanks very much 

[Chip]

28 minutes ago, darren1589 said:

Ok I’ll make the changes tonight and report back. Last season I had Brewster on loan from Liverpool and played him in the AF role and he scored 32 goals in all competitions. Could have been due to the lower level him having such a prolific season. Would he suit the PF on attack role do you think ? Have tweaked the distribution to cb’s and fb’s and taken off counter and see how I go. 
 

thanks very much 

Mate it sounds like you’re having a cracking time to be honest! A striker scoring 36 goals and finished 3rd in the league plus promotion! Sometimes if you’re losing silly games or silly goals it can be down to other factors than the tactic! If it’s working majority of the season then don’t change what isn’t broken!

[Experienced Defender]

29 minutes ago, darren1589 said:

Would he suit the PF on attack role do you think ?

In most cases, a player that suits the AF role should absolutely be able to play as a PF on attack. Because these 2 roles share a lot of similarities when it comes to the attacking phase of play and movement. 

[darren1589]

19 minutes ago, Chip said:

Mate it sounds like you’re having a cracking time to be honest! A striker scoring 36 goals and finished 3rd in the league plus promotion! Sometimes if you’re losing silly games or silly goals it can be down to other factors than the tactic! If it’s working majority of the season then don’t change what isn’t broken!

Lol I know it does sound stupid. It just got to me so much due to it being like 4 games in a row all the exact same thing. Running straight up the park and scoring, I’m def going to implement the things you guys have suggested and hopefully it will improve what’s already been done. Appreciate the help lads !