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Why are the ai able to get deals for transfers compared to human players.


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Seriously absolutely ridiculous how the ai get bargains,whilst you have to pay top rate even after unsettling a player for months on months. And please don’t tell it’s because the player is unsetttled. In my arsenal save I tried to sign aouar. After ages of making him my top target and sending out scouts trying to unsettle him (didn’t work) Lyon made me pay £68m for him including 40m upfront.  I cancelled the deal because I had bought an alternative. His morale remained excellent. Tell me why the ai (Barcelona) can then come in two days before deadline day a month later and sign him for 40m  with potential to 51m, when he wasn’t unsettled and Lyon had bought no replacement. Surely it would make more sense for them to put his price up even more, given the time in the window?

Another example of the game treating the ai more favourably than the human player, despite si saying  that the game doesn’t recognise the difference between the two.

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The AI doesn´t enter bid wars, that´s just how FM works. I have seen most of the major clubs interested in one of my players but they never compete, usually one comes up with a bid and that´s it. I have also noticed that the AI demands more money from me than other clubs even if my bank has very little money, I don´t know if that´s a coincidence ... but it´s usually not that much more.

 

A hint is to shortlist anyone who might have your interest and just wait it out for the AI to make a bid, then you know the exact amount to bid. Many players have the "don´t want to sell" tag, my advice goes especially for these, the AI always knows the exact amount to bid.

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Also, they were Barcelona - you were Arsenal.

I think there is an effect there that comes into play. The bigger rep team finds it easier to convince players to come.

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7 minutes ago, Snorks said:

Also, they were Barcelona - you were Arsenal.

I think there is an effect there that comes into play. The bigger rep team finds it easier to convince players to come.

It's not the player he's grumbling about tho...

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3 minutes ago, Geordieboy52 said:

It's not the player he's grumbling about tho...

???? but, Barca would unsettle the player more than Arsenal would surely?

THe deal is more likely to go through as the OP described if the player is saying 'let me talk to Barca'

We may not see it, but I ma pretty sure it influences the process.

Club rep will have an effect won;t it?

 

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40 minutes ago, Snorks said:

???? but, Barca would unsettle the player more than Arsenal would surely?

THe deal is more likely to go through as the OP described if the player is saying 'let me talk to Barca'

We may not see it, but I ma pretty sure it influences the process.

Club rep will have an effect won;t it?

 

Somehow I doubt that when he signed his new contract last year and why shouldn’t arsenal be a big enough club to have the same reaction?

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1 hour ago, Phillybear said:

Arsenal isn't a big club. The reputation gap between Barca and Arsenal is quite large.

Arsenal are a top 10 club in the world. Certainly big enough to unsettle a player form Lyon. Especially in the 3rd season after two successful ones on fm

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8 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

Arsenal are a top 10 club in the world. Certainly big enough to unsettle a player form Lyon. Especially in the 3rd season after two successful ones on fm

Only due to the UEFA coefficients, and based on past glories. In the next couple of years, they won't be if they keep on as they are.

Also, Barca are no. 3 in the UEFA coefficients, and have a lot more recent trophies and continental success than Arsenal, and so will have substantially more pulling power for players.

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1 hour ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Only due to the UEFA coefficients, and based on past glories. In the next couple of years, they won't be if they keep on as they are.

Also, Barca are no. 3 in the UEFA coefficients, and have a lot more recent trophies and continental success than Arsenal, and so will have substantially more pulling power for players.

Still bs how they make one bid and it gets automatically accepted for way less than I offered 

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UEFA coefficients are a ranking system attempting to objectify a measure of recent success in UEFA competitions.   "Big club" ranking is based on subjective reputation.  Pulling power is not only based on whether you have qualified for a competition or not.  To assume coefficients is a measure of big club pulling power is just plain wrong.

Not only is is wrong, it is completely missing the point.

The OP is questioning why a smaller club like Arsenal are charged £68m and Barca have £51m accepted.  One would have thought the "bigger" club, Barca, would be charged a premium because that's how real **** works, not some ******** excuse about coefficients.

What the hell does pulling power have to do with anything?

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The UEFA coefficients are largely irrelevant depending on how far into the game you are.

It is the reputation within the FM game I was referring to, which can drift some way away from real world coefficients.

So, without knowing the full details of the transfer agreed, I still justify to myself that Barca will always be more likely to sign a player I am after if  I am managing Arsenal. The difference in fee could be any number of things - friendly arranged, (worth a mill?), future fees, player exchange or simply the player himself saying to his club "I don't want to go to Arsenal' "OK, we'll try and get as much as we absolutely can from them, see if it puts them off' ..... "ooohhh look, Barca want me!"

If you are interested in a player, watch what other clubs are offering for him, offer that as a start.

 

 

 

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The desire of the player also plays a role in transfers just like in real life. It might seem that the lower valued transfer is preferred but it might be just the player wants to join Barcelona instead of arsenal

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No, the desire of the player has no role in the difference between the PRICE a club will accept from one club over another club.  If a player prefers one club over another, or doesn't like one particular club, that's up to the player to decide that during his contract negotiation.  Player desire is simply not a factor in club-club negotiations when deciding to accept or reject an offer.

The reputation of club has no role in the difference between the PRICE a club will accept from one club over another club.   If Accrington Stanley pay the £600m release clause for Lionel Mess then Barca MUST accept it.  Or if Accrington offer you £60m for your backup goalkeeper, you will accept it, despite Accrington having zero reputation.   Buying club reputation is simply NOT a factor for a selling club to reject an offer.  Whether Messi or your backup keeper will go is another matter entirely.

The only difference between buying clubs would be if they are seen as rivals or direct competitors, OR some inter-personal relationships between the owners, or executives or people involved in transfer negotiations between the two clubs, OR if one club has a pissed another club off like with £40m + 1 Suarez offer - only then would the selling club be particularly vindictive against another club.

As far as OP case is concerned, there is no reason for Lyon to reject a £68m offer from Arsenal, and then accept a £51 offer from Barca, unless the game was trying to make a point that Lyon were not happy with Arsenal's negotiation methods trying to upset their player - IN WHICH CASE there should be something in your inbox or media to clarify that.

Otherwise, it just seems like another example of the game conspiring against the human player to make up for simulation inadequacies.  To make it harder for you to buy the players you want for the sake of making it harder because its too easy for a human to buy the players they want, because its too easy to find the good players, because good players rarely fail to deliver after buying them, because if they fail too often people wont enjoy the game (need a difficulty or realism setting); AND because its too hard for AI managers to buy the players they want, because its too much calculation to simulate all the managers to pick the right players to fit the right formations, tactics, training, dynamics to compete with the human, but because they still want to create an environment where transfers between AI clubs still happen while maintaining some sort of balance over a successive transfer windows.

So the game contrives to make transfers much harder for the human.  That's what is feels like, regardless of whatever excuses or reasons you decide might justify such mechanics.

 

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Simple Barcelona are a 100% bigger than Arsenal ( I don't hate Arsenal) by the way. but have some sort of realization ! they can pay more wages more history more glory etc 

 

does any one know what aours hidden attributes are. ? those may play a part 

 

can happen in real life no different on game

 

He went to one of the big 7 clubs in the world 

Bayern,PSG,Barcelona,Real Madrid,Man city,Liverpool and throw in Juventus. rite now those are the big big clubs for players to reach. (Just my opinion) 

 

Throw in Dortmund for young talent. 

Edited by Gross_Ballon
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1 hour ago, Gross_Ballon said:

Simple Barcelona are a 100% bigger than Arsenal ( I don't hate Arsenal) by the way. but have some sort of realization ! they can pay more wages more history more glory etc 

 

does any one know what aours hidden attributes are. ? those may play a part 

 

can happen in real life no different on game

 

He went to one of the big 7 clubs in the world 

Bayern,PSG,Barcelona,Real Madrid,Man city,Liverpool and throw in Juventus. rite now those are the big big clubs for players to reach. (Just my opinion) 

 

Throw in Dortmund for young talent. 

And what does this have to do with Lyon immediately accepting an offer £20m less than what I offered?

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The same reason a player refuses your 50k a week ,because hes happy on 7k a week ,but then days later his agent gets him an amazing deal at a lower club for 12k a week !!! Thats after said director was happy to except a few million less on the transfer to 

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5 hours ago, Rayzor said:

@Bielsa1975 you need to understand a VERY simple idea.

 

A club and its director is not the same thing as the player and his agent.

Once you figure it out, you'll understand.

So there director of football will turn down a 25mill bid but except a 10million bid ,yes i will figure it out ,its my tactics ? 

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same thing happened to me yesterday. i'm in the second season with milan and i've finished 2nd in the league while inter finished 7th and conte was fired. i had a €27 million bid rejected when trying to sign a player from sevilla. my scout said that the player was interested to join milan but sevilla wanted €45 million from me, yet they accepted a €19 million bid from inter but the player rejected inter. also had a similar experience when i tried to buy defender from atalanta. he was sold for €12 million while i was asked to pay 30+ but i understand that one because of the regional rivarly.

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Happens to me in every save. The club accepts a much lower bid than mine from a club with similar reputation, the player too accepts a lower salary than I offered after I was forced to walk away from the contract negotiations because he was insisting for unrealistic wage.

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I'm sure the game does have functionality around this based on club and manager reputation and desirability. But there are times where it is just daft. I'm Everton and tried to sign Bellingham from Birmingham. Wolves bid £8m and I suggested £10m and was countered £38m. I eventually got it to £28m and he wanted £78k a week, agreed at £72k and I didn't have enough funds because of the signing on fee. I backed out and he joined Leicester and is on £32k a week. It doesn't make sense. I have no idea who has the higher rep out of Everton and Leicester. I guess the mechanic could also work two ways. He might ask for more from a bigger club (As they have more money and pay higher wages) or he might accept less from a bigger club (To play at a higher level with better players and further his career).

 

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9 hours ago, Rayzor said:

@Bielsa1975 you need to understand a VERY simple idea.

 

A club and its director is not the same thing as the player and his agent.

Once you figure it out, you'll understand.

Value 77mill but city underbid

20200401_011218.jpg

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10 hours ago, Rayzor said:

@Bielsa1975 you need to understand a VERY simple idea.

 

A club and its director is not the same thing as the player and his agent.

Once you figure it out, you'll understand.

77mill i offered 65 they wanted 190 mil plus 40% sell on ,but guess who brought for 12mill under his value ???

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5 hours ago, Bielsa1975 said:

77mill i offered 65 they wanted 190 mil plus 40% sell on ,but guess who brought for 12mill under his value ???

That has nothing to do with the AI being better at bargaining, and everything to do with Haaland having a release clause of £65m. Which is why Manchester City bid that low, it was accepted and they bought him. I have to assume your £77million bid was not all cash up front, because that is the only way Dortmund can reject it. If you big £65 million up front they would have to accept it too. This is not an example of the AI having an advantage, it is an example of the user not reading scout reports properly. 

In general I have never had any problem getting the same bids accepted as the AI. The game does not care if you are a user or the AI. The only advantage the AI has is that it can much more easily search for players and know what to bid. 

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12 hours ago, Gogol Bordello said:

same thing happened to me yesterday. i'm in the second season with milan and i've finished 2nd in the league while inter finished 7th and conte was fired. i had a €27 million bid rejected when trying to sign a player from sevilla. my scout said that the player was interested to join milan but sevilla wanted €45 million from me, yet they accepted a €19 million bid from inter but the player rejected inter. also had a similar experience when i tried to buy defender from atalanta. he was sold for €12 million while i was asked to pay 30+ but i understand that one because of the regional rivarly.

One possible explanation is that the player complained to the club after your 27M bid was rejected. Then they say it wasn't a good offer and that they wanted 45M. He says that is way too much that they set more reasonable price. They promise him they let him go for more reasonable price and the Inter comes in.

Bt then again it might be that FM is not that perfect and that AI is favoured in that aspect of the game.

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2 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

That has nothing to do with the AI being better at bargaining, and everything to do with Haaland having a release clause of £65m. Which is why Manchester City bid that low, it was accepted and they bought him. I have to assume your £77million bid was not all cash up front, because that is the only way Dortmund can reject it. If you big £65 million up front they would have to accept it too. This is not an example of the AI having an advantage, it is an example of the user not reading scout reports properly. 

In general I have never had any problem getting the same bids accepted as the AI. The game does not care if you are a user or the AI. The only advantage the AI has is that it can much more easily search for players and know what to bid. 

45 million up front and 32 million over 3 payments ,but as i stated ,the director of football knows city have bid 65 up front ,why would he refuse my bid that is in effect a better offer ? There going to lose him for 65 mill surely may aswell except 77 mill ?

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50 minutes ago, Bielsa1975 said:

45 million up front and 32 million over 3 payments ,but as i stated ,the director of football knows city have bid 65 up front ,why would he refuse my bid that is in effect a better offer ? There going to lose him for 65 mill surely may aswell except 77 mill ?

Yeah, that is just AI flaw as AI isn't really artificial intelligence and is not able to make such conclusions. Instead it just acted like they don't want to sell.

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1 hour ago, yolixeya said:

Yeah, that is just AI flaw as AI isn't really artificial intelligence and is not able to make such conclusions. Instead it just acted like they don't want to sell.

So the OP is  right then ,the transfer system on FM has been like it since the first ever gane ,it wont change despite being a big part of the game ,just like the rest of the scripts in the game always the same over years ,different wallpaper still same game

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2 hours ago, Bielsa1975 said:

45 million up front and 32 million over 3 payments ,but as i stated ,the director of football knows city have bid 65 up front ,why would he refuse my bid that is in effect a better offer ? There going to lose him for 65 mill surely may aswell except 77 mill ?

It's possible they're willing to do without an extra 12 million if it means they get an extra 20 million up front to spend in that window.

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36 minutes ago, Bielsa1975 said:

So the OP is  right then ,the transfer system on FM has been like it since the first ever gane ,it wont change despite being a big part of the game ,just like the rest of the scripts in the game always the same over years ,different wallpaper still same game

AI doesn't really exist and all games have some isuues with it. OP statement is liitle too hard and it is not my experience with the game. I also had a situation on FM 2019 where AI unsettled the player and I was able to capitalize on it  and bring him for about half of price of his release clause I was willing to play.

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5 hours ago, Bielsa1975 said:

45 million up front and 32 million over 3 payments ,but as i stated ,the director of football knows city have bid 65 up front ,why would he refuse my bid that is in effect a better offer ? There going to lose him for 65 mill surely may aswell except 77 mill ?

Which is why your bid was rejected and Man City's was accepted. To be fair though the logic of the AI is flawed if they had already accepted the offer from Man City. Something maybe to either raise on the bug forum (because it is dumb), or in the future features forum. It would make sense if you bid first, but not if you bid second. 

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3 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

It's possible they're willing to do without an extra 12 million if it means they get an extra 20 million up front to spend in that window.

Or they get an extra 12mill extra to spread over future transfers ,which would enable them to buy a national league 15 year old regen.

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4 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Which is why your bid was rejected and Man City's was accepted. To be fair though the logic of the AI is flawed if they had already accepted the offer from Man City. Something maybe to either raise on the bug forum (because it is dumb), or in the future features forum. It would make sense if you bid first, but not if you bid second. 

Transfers wont ever change on the game ,you bid 50mill for a player its refused ,2 days later they accept 20mil from AI, you accept 3 bids for an unwanted player  because you want him of your wage bill he will always sign for the club with the worst bid , player refuses your 40k a week because hes happy on 3k week ,week later he goes a league below for 9k a week ,same flaws every year wont change ,only the ME and new wallpaper does .

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6 minutes ago, Bielsa1975 said:

Transfers wont ever change on the game ,you bid 50mill for a player its refused ,2 days later they accept 20mil from AI, you accept 3 bids for an unwanted player  because you want him of your wage bill he will always sign for the club with the worst bid , player refuses your 40k a week because hes happy on 3k week ,week later he goes a league below for 9k a week ,same flaws every year wont change ,only the ME and new wallpaper does .

I never have any issues with the transfer market, if the AI can get a bid accepted, so can I. If a player leaves somewhere else on lower wages, usually they offered him better position in the squad, or are a better team than me. I simply reject transfer offers that are worse than the best I currently have for a player. And I will always negotiate if I can. 

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34 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

I never have any issues with the transfer market, if the AI can get a bid accepted, so can I. If a player leaves somewhere else on lower wages, usually they offered him better position in the squad, or are a better team than me. I simply reject transfer offers that are worse than the best I currently have for a player. And I will always negotiate if I can. 

Yeah sorry i should edit my post 

Mods the game is amazing best one yet .......

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