BJT’s Tiki Taka Antidote - Klopp Heavy Metal – 433 & NEW 4231 (BVB) | now inc JM's Chelsea 4141 (x2 versions / DLF&TM)

[BJT]

BJT’s Tiki Taka Antidote - Klopp Heavy Metal – 433

Uninspired

I can’t say I’m a big fan of gegenpressing. Probably a huge understatement. It’s not artistic, there is no skill, creativity, elegance, and I have refused to make such a tactic - that is until now. It seems to be the modern way to play and is the perfect antidote to Pep’s tiki taka style we all love.

As with a lot of my systems I tend to model them on my favourite / successful bosses, although Klopp for sure isn’t one of them. I feel a little bit guilty trying to create this =)

Nevertheless, my heavy metal version aims to follow on from his work with my own twist. And that said, the way it plays on the pitch has a distinct look of the current Liverpool machine…and with the right squad, it seems effective and efficient.

 

Heavy Metal - with a Conductor

I refuse to manage an outfit with zero creativity in their ranks. So my tweak here is to bring in a Michael Carrick in behind my two box to box midfielders.

This I hope will increase the chances of turning the opposition backwards whilst playing a more accurate / deadly pass for our inside forwards to chase, and being smart defensively covering for their ventures forward.

Additionally, a plan to my pressing was to allow the opposing goalkeeper to play out from the back. This would mean a more solid first pressing line for the opponents to play through, whilst leaving space in behind them to quickly exploit once we win the ball.

Style wise, both pressing and our offense is in a narrow shape. The aim is to remain compact in both phases for both effective pressing, and allowing our wing-backs a lot of room to attack the flanks.

 

OIs

-Show opposing full back / wing backs to touchline

-Show opposing wingers to weaker foot

 

What You Need

 

-Hard working side all over, especially the BBMs and the front trio as they’ll be the aggressive pressers

-A Keeper with good distribution (I like to promote long throws for countering)

-Attacking wing-backs with good crossing and dribbling ability

 

Results

Liverpool P97, EPL Winner + All cups

Second season into a save. We had the best attack with 93 goals and best defence conceding 19. A 97 points total winning the league by 15 points, but most importantly we completed the quadruple winning the Carabao, FA, EPL and the ECL.

We beat Spurs in both domestic cups 4-1 and 2-1 respectively, with a 3-0 drubbing against Real Madrid in the ECL final.

Die Bayern P88 – Bundesliga Winners

Bayern had no depth at the start, so I invested in Roberto and Neres in the Summer, with Savic coming in January.

It was a very good season considering we had some long-term injuries. Lewandowski ended up missing the DFB Pokal semi’s where we lost to RBL AET. We also made the ECL final to lose to PSG, with the quality in the final third telling. But we won the league extremely comfortably.

It was a year I alienated Coutinho completely. He doesn’t have the attributes for gegenpressing, and when he did play he was poor. Gnabry did a good job on the left flank.

Napoli P86 – Serie A Winners

A little investment to bring in Saul to help strengthen our midfield was the major dealing for our first team, with a backup box to box midfielder in De Beek.

Didn’t make any cup finals, and at times our ability to score meant we drew a lot of games. But with very few defeats, we got enough wins to bring home the Scudetto.

Ajax P79 – Eredivise Winners

Brought in a few players to try and fill the shortage of players following De Ligt and De Jong’s departures in the Summer.

With the numbers and good enough quality we won the league title comfortably in the end. Domestic cup was a bit disappointing, and we lost to Liverpool in the 1^st round of the Knockouts.

We did draw a lot of games and had problems scoring at times, very much like Napoli.

Aston Villa – Season 1 (Finished 9^th)

With the board hoping to avoid relegation and a media prediction of 17^th, we far surpassed these objectives and comfortably took 9^th spot.

Two squad players were brought in with Roden at CB and Benrahma at AMR. So we had the depth to remain consistent and we had some impressive wins along the way including a satisfying 3-0 win away at Leicester and 2-0 home win against Arsenal, both sides who like to play pretty football.

Overview

Looking at the results, it is quite a fair reflection of the strengths and weaknesses of Liverpool. Solid and difficult to beat, but the lack of creativity makes it difficult to open up teams that play more defensive. Liverpool have three match winners up top in their line up, which was enough to win those tight games and helped win the quad. And then two real quality wing-backs to provide top deliveries out wide. If you lack this, those games won will turn into draws - and those you would draw, perhaps turn into losses.

 

Napoli and Ajax although successful in the league and hard to beat, drew a lot of games and struggled in the cups. There isn’t the quality of offensive players in comparison to Liverpool. But being hard to beat and having a side that if they have pace and work hard will mean even teams expecting to go down will have a real chance of staying up and vastly exceed expectations, as with my Villa season.

 

So it’s a capable tactic of winning all the trophies available, and comfortably keeping a side expected to go down in the toughest league in the world so should be a decent Plug n Play tactic where squad building to this system should bring about eventual success.

bjt-433-tta-20.fmfBJT-4231-BVB.fmf

bjt-4141-jm-che-20tar.fmf bjt-4141-jm-che-20.fmf

Edited April 3, 2020 by BJT

[BJT]

Monza Serie C-A Winners / 99 points, league record

After testing it with a lot more amateurish players, the solidity of the system was clear to see. Losing 1 game all season, scoring 100 goals and conceding just the 16 saw us dominate the league and gain promotion very comfortably. I was quite surprised at the goal tally, as at the higher levels of football it proves to be a little more difficult without top quality match winners.

FC Porto - Domestic Treble

As above, goals at times weren't easy to come by, but losing just the two games all season in the league saw us top the table ahead of real challengers SLB. Europe wasn't successful this year, but we won both of the other domestic cups, requiring us to beat our rivals SLB twice.

 

And here is a clip of the boring predictable football that Liverpool produce each and every week, evidenced here...although I can guess the right back who scored in a disguised shirt

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by BJT

[Azariiix]

Hey @BJT I'm a huge fan of your tactics, I have a question. Will this tactic that you've posted on FM Base (https://fm-base.co.uk/resources/bjt-–-433-liverpool-101-points-all-cups-klopp-pep-jose-inspired.74/) work properly in 20.4 version? 

I've tested it with Arsenal and got interesting results, but my left IF performs poorly from time to time (Aubameyang, Martinelli). Right IF (Pepe, Saka) play incredibly and have lots of goals and assists. Maybe changing OI's to the same you've mentioned in the tactic above will change the situation?

[BJT]

Hi @Azariiix, thanks, appreciate it. I have made a very minor adjustment to this on latest patch and so I have attached this for you here.

I try to base my systems on football principles, so I would hope that the majority would work with a degree of success on all patches. However it won't ever always be the case.

Given I play the game in this way, FM is highly detailed and there are numerous reasons why it may be occurring. Hidden player attributes for consistency / big games, how the opponents set themselves up, sometimes luck just isn't on your side or you're just having a bad day.

All you can do as a manager is minimise the chances your side get unlucky, and maximise those that will allow you to win a football match. And with that said, I do believe OIs can be very important. I have always used them for the way I want my team to defend. So in any system make sure the players fit the bill.

(For e.g in this uploaded gegenpressing one, if you have forwards that don't work hard and have lack pace, the system will fail)

In this and my own inspired particular system, I want my side to defend in this particular manner and I believe even the subtlest of changes will make a difference. Winning a tight football match involves extremely fine margins.

bjt-433-20kpj.fmf

[Azariiix]

19 minutes ago, BJT said:

Hi @Azariiix, thanks, appreciate it. I have made a very minor adjustment to this on latest patch and so I have attached this for you here.

I try to base my systems on football principles, so I would hope that the majority would work with a degree of success on all patches. However it won't ever always be the case.

Given I play the game in this way, FM is highly detailed and there are numerous reasons why it may be occurring. Hidden player attributes for consistency / big games, how the opponents set themselves up, sometimes luck just isn't on your side or you're just having a bad day.

All you can do as a manager is minimise the chances your side get unlucky, and maximise those that will allow you to win a football match. And with that said, I do believe OIs can be very important. I have always used them for the way I want my team to defend. So in any system make sure the players fit the bill.

(For e.g in this uploaded gegenpressing one, if you have forwards that don't work hard and have lack pace, the system will fail)

In this and my own inspired particular system, I want my side to defend in this particular manner and I believe even the subtlest of changes will make a difference. Winning a tight football match involves extremely fine margins.

bjt-433-20kpj.fmf 45.75 kB · 1 download

Thanks a lot! Should I use the old OIs (Show into the foot close to the flank)? Or the same that Gegenpress uses?

[BJT]

No probs I think with the centrally positioned defensive midfielder in play, it's best to use the ones shown here. (Show offensive wide players to weaker foot / defensive wide players to touchline.)

I tend to show all wide players to the touchline in a 442 formation or 4231.

[Lumi]

Great tactic for My Stoke team. So far 7-4-1 after 12 games. Rock solid defence 

[Zlatan11]

On 27/03/2020 at 18:32, BJT said:

No probs I think with the centrally positioned defensive midfielder in play, it's best to use the ones shown here. (Show offensive wide players to weaker foot / defensive wide players to touchline.)

I tend to show all wide players to the touchline in a 442 formation or 4231.

Which tactic is the most effective from the 3 you made?(4231,4312 and 433)

[BJT]

22 minutes ago, Zlatan11 said:

Which tactic is the most effective from the 3 you made?(4231,4312 and 433)

On the assumption you have the ideal players for it? I believe the Real Madrid 4231 is probably the best in that respect. But you need top quality to play it, so durability wise I'd say the Klopp 433 as all you need is pace and work-rate for it to work well. It can work with many sides as these are attributes that won't be hard to find at lower levels too.

The diamond system is a weak formation nowadays, but in a league such as Italy where a lot of teams won't play at such a quick pace to expose the attacking wing-backs, the system will work well over there.

The most pretty to watch though, I like my 235  I've got another couple I'll be uploading to this thread which will be my last. But these ones look quite promising for effectiveness, and one is a target man one.

 

[BJT]

New System - BJT.4141.JM.20 / Chelsea Era (x2 versions / DLF-S & TM-S)

(Available here and on OP)

DEEP LYING FORWARD

TARGET MAN

Not Forgetting the Bus Parking Specialist

These will be my last set of tactics I’ll release for this FM as I’ve pretty much covered my favourite systems now.

Mourinho's Chelsea side have crossed paths with Barca a few times. Renowned for his 4141 in defence that turned into a 433 into attack, here I’ve tried to create his Double Decker Bus – that would then accelerate like a Ferrari on the break.

Chelsea to me weren’t a defensive side at all, they were an attacking counter-attacking outfit, who either could play with Gudjohnsen up top, or of course play more direct with the legend of Didier Drogba.

Sadly the only target man on this game is a real poor version of him, being Lukaku. So it’s hard to test the system with a Target Man at an elite level.

Irrespective of this, I have tried to create two tactics. One that can be used at the higher levels that plays with a DLF in Gudjohnsen, and one that does contain a TM with Drogba which should be more effective in the leagues below.

 

How it Plays in Brief

I’ve decided to go with two Wayne Bridges on the flanks, so that both sides will be able to feed the Drog regularly. They will overlap the Inverted Wingers that will tend to cut infield to provide closer support for the big man.

There are also two BBMs. The right sided one plays like Lampard who will get forward on a regular basis. The other is an allrounder. Both BBMs need to be of a creative nature, as with a Makelele behind as a DM there isn’t anyone that will dictate the play. 

Chelsea played with a mid-block and used the offside trap, so these are in force along with the front 3 being a little bit more of a nuisance thus have greater pressing urgency compared to the rest.

The attacking movements will be focused down both flanks, really trying to make use of the attacking full-backs overlapping at every opportunity at a quick tempo to unsettle the opposition backline.

 

OIs

-Show opposing defensive wide players to touchline

-Show offensive wide players onto weaker foot

 

Results

Man Utd (DLF Version) / P100, FA Cup

I gave this a whirl in a 3^rd season Man Utd save. Got a pretty good squad, although Liverpool’s is stupidly superior with our midfield weak in comparison with McTominay still playing an important role! However our ability to score goals with a really tight Jose Mourinho defence conceding just the 13 goals gave us a 100 points league winning tally. Hopefully he’d have been proud of this defensive record.

We also won the FA Cup final vs Lpool, but lost on pens in the ECL Semi’s v Barca and a Carabao Cup Final to Lpool. At least we had some form of revenge.

Spal (Predicted 17^th / Finished 8th – Target Man Version)

Really good season for a side looking to fight relegation off bravely. We had a good target man in Petagna, so it was a good side to test it on.

Vastly exceeding expectations, it looks like the system should be able to do a good job with sides that have a big man up top and underdogs.

Whether it can win a major league with the lack of target man talent I don’t know, but may give this a try at some point, and also see how it fairs in other nations. It’s definitely an EPL tactic design.

Well I’d like to think Klopp with his brainless 433 gegenpressing has met his match here. Hopefully these are two nice additions for playing effectively against the Tiki Taka.

Enjoy.

bjt-4141-jm-che-20tar.fmf bjt-4141-jm-che-20.fmf

Edited March 29, 2020 by BJT

[Zlatan11]

33 minutes ago, BJT said:

On the assumption you have the ideal players for it? I believe the Real Madrid 4231 is probably the best in that respect. But you need top quality to play it, so durability wise I'd say the Klopp 433 as all you need is pace and work-rate for it to work well. It can work with many sides as these are attributes that won't be hard to find at lower levels too.

The diamond system is a weak formation nowadays, but in a league such as Italy where a lot of teams won't play at such a quick pace to expose the attacking wing-backs, the system will work well over there.

The most pretty to watch though, I like my 235  I've got another couple I'll be uploading to this thread which will be my last. But these ones look quite promising for effectiveness, and one is a target man one.

 

On the Jose 4231 thread you posted this 

OIs (Both Systems)

-By playing narrow and compact, force all opposing wide players feet towards the touchline is a must

Does that mean to show the wide players on their weak foot?

[BJT]

12 minutes ago, Zlatan11 said:

On the Jose 4231 thread you posted this 

OIs (Both Systems)

-By playing narrow and compact, force all opposing wide players feet towards the touchline is a must

Does that mean to show the wide players on their weak foot?

Nope, it means show them wide to the touchline. So a right winger is shown onto his right foot and a left winger to his left etc. My OIs will vary for different formations,

[tripoligate4]

433 doesnt work for me like u  even with instant results..   

[BJT]

What team are you? Do your players have the required attributes to play the system and press high aggressively? As mentioned with my Bayern side, although Coutinho was my best player around that area I never played him because he doesn't have the attributes. It's very important you have players geared to play in this manner.

[MrScaleh]

Hi all,

Thank you for the tactic @BJT

Sorry for the stupid question but when you state 'Show opposing full back / wing backs to touchline' do you mean that the DR and WBR are shown on to their Right Foot and vice versa for DL / WBL.

Additionally, when you state wingers do you mean both sets of ML / AML and MR / AMR.

Thanks in advance and apologies for the inconvenience :-) 

 

[BJT]

13 minutes ago, MrScaleh said:

Hi all,

Thank you for the tactic @BJT

Sorry for the stupid question but when you state 'Show opposing full back / wing backs to touchline' do you mean that the DR and WBR are shown on to their Right Foot and vice versa for DL / WBL.

Additionally, when you state wingers do you mean both sets of ML / AML and MR / AMR.

Thanks in advance and apologies for the inconvenience :-) 

 

HI @MrScaleh

Not at all, you hit the nail on the head there on both accounts, so what you've assumed above are both correct.

[MrScaleh]

21 minutes ago, BJT said:

HI @MrScaleh

Not at all, you hit the nail on the head there on both accounts, so what you've assumed above are both correct.

Thanks for your help @BJT

Out of the 4 tactics posted above and noted below. What one would you consider would be the best one to use for Lower League side? And which one is the best overall?

bjt-4141-jm-che-20tar.fmf 

bjt-4141-jm-che-20.fmf

bjt-433-20kpj.fmf

bjt-433-tta-20.fmf
 

Thanks again for your help :-)

[BJT]

5 minutes ago, MrScaleh said:

Thanks for your help @BJT

Out of the 4 tactics posted above and noted below. What one would you consider would be the best one to use for Lower League side? And which one is the best overall?

bjt-4141-jm-che-20tar.fmf 

bjt-4141-jm-che-20.fmf

bjt-433-20kpj.fmf

bjt-433-tta-20.fmf
 

Thanks again for your help :-)

The target man will always be a last resort if you don't have anyone that can play a deep lying forward role. It would need to be either the jm chelsea one, or the klopp gegenpressing tta one. But generally a tactic always needs to be geared to what you have in the squad.

Gegenpressing will require a team with great work-rate and pace to be able to effectively press high up the pitch and then counter quickly. However this also plays a high line, so if you have a slow back-line that won't work so well if the opponents breaks your front line of defence.

The jm 4141 will not require such a fast back-line. But that means you'll need players more able to actually defend. By also counter-attacking fast, you'll need real pace down the flanks for it to work well offensively. But his sides generally require real quality to get the most out his systems.

So the gegenpressing system will imo be most durable whilst being easier to build a solid squad. Another being the match engine is most suited to it. In the lower leagues I doubt teams will be able to punish you much at that level, so I'd try that one. first.

Whichever you choose though, goals can at times be hard to come by due to the type of football being played. So make sure you have a good corner and free kick taker, as in those tight games they'll make a difference.

I also have a SAF 442 one that should work well in the lower leagues. It's a lot more simplistic football and plays like Sir Alex's Man Utd did. One version with a higher line and the other standard.

[MrScaleh]

3 minutes ago, BJT said:

The target man will always be a last resort if you don't have anyone that can play a deep lying forward role. It would need to be either the jm chelsea one, or the klopp gegenpressing tta one. But generally a tactic always needs to be geared to what you have in the squad.

Gegenpressing will require a team with great work-rate and pace to be able to effectively press high up the pitch and then counter quickly. However this also plays a high line, so if you have a slow back-line that won't work so well if the opponents breaks your front line of defence.

The jm 4141 will not require such a fast back-line. But that means you'll need players more able to actually defend. By also counter-attacking fast, you'll need real pace down the flanks for it to work well offensively. But his sides generally require real quality to get the most out his systems.

So the gegenpressing system will imo be most durable whilst being easier to build a solid squad. Another being the match engine is most suited to it. In the lower leagues I doubt teams will be able to punish you much at that level, so I'd try that one. first.

Whichever you choose though, goals can at times be hard to come by due to the type of football being played. So make sure you have a good corner and free kick taker, as in those tight games they'll make a difference.

I also have a SAF 442 one that should work well in the lower leagues. It's a lot more simplistic football and plays like Sir Alex's Man Utd did. One version with a higher line and the other standard.

Hi @BJT

Thank you again for your help. It is very much appreciated. I am currently trying gegenpressing system with some moderate success :-) Currently 3rd in Vanarama National League and lost to Man Utd in the 3rd Round of the FA Cup!

Please would it be possible to link me to your SAF 442 Tactic and also can this tactic be used as an UnderDog tactic when I (hopefully) get promoted lol.

Thanks again :-)

[BJT]

9 minutes ago, MrScaleh said:

Hi @BJT

Thank you again for your help. It is very much appreciated. I am currently trying gegenpressing system with some moderate success :-) Currently 3rd in Vanarama National League and lost to Man Utd in the 3rd Round of the FA Cup!

Please would it be possible to link me to your SAF 442 Tactic and also can this tactic be used as an UnderDog tactic when I (hopefully) get promoted lol.

Thanks again :-)

No problem. It's also here on the forums btw but here's the link below:

 

It plays attacking football, so naturally it works best if your favourite. However at a lower standard of football the gulf in quality is a lot less so you should be able to achieve decent success with it. You could use the attacking version at home and the more balanced version away, or just the balanced if your back line is very slow.

Edited March 29, 2020 by BJT

[MrScaleh]

1 minute ago, BJT said:

No problem. It's also here on the forums btw but here's the link below:

 

It plays attacking football, so naturally it works best if your favourite. However at a lower standard of football the gulf in quality is a lot less so you should be able to achieve decent success with it. You could use the attacking version at home and the more balanced version away, or just the balanced if your back line is very slow.

Thanks again for your help @BJT Very Much appreciated. I will try the above tactic in my next season and let you know how I get on. Hopefully I should be in League 2 with AFC Telford. :-)

[BJT]

Np please do so, good luck!

[ScorpioAndrew]

Awesome tactic for Liverpool. Thank you for sharing.

[BJT]

No probs glad it's working for you.

[witchplease]

@BJT Hey, thanks for the tactics. Wanted to know why the wide midfielders are set to mark opposition's wingbacks rather than fullbacks ?

[BJT]

54 minutes ago, witchplease said:

@BJT Hey, thanks for the tactics. Wanted to know why the wide midfielders are set to mark opposition's wingbacks rather than fullbacks ?

Hi, no problem..guess this will be for the Jose defensive tactic. I want my wingers to not press their fullbacks deep, as I want them to be in a position where they can drop and regroup, maintaining our defensive structure and force teams to try and play through us which is what the 4141 formation is well suited to do.

In contrast, the gegenpressing system does press up higher as I'm looking to press the opposition very high in their own third being very pro-active in winning the ball back as early as possible. You'll notice the midfielders also look to press higher to help aid our wingers pressing on that system.

[witchplease]

11 minutes ago, BJT said:

Hi, no problem..guess this will be for the Jose defensive tactic. I want my wingers to not press their fullbacks deep, as I want them to be in a position where they can drop and regroup, maintaining our defensive structure and force teams to try and play through us which is what the 4141 formation is well suited to do.

In contrast, the gegenpressing system does press up higher as I'm looking to press the opposition very high in their own third being very pro-active in winning the ball back as early as possible. You'll notice the midfielders also look to press higher to help aid our wingers pressing on that system.

Yes for JM tactic. So even if opponent's fullbacks aren't playing as wingbacks on paper, still my wingers would mark them once the fullbacks push forward and act like wingbacks ?

[BJT]

That's the intention yes, I don't want my wingers pushing them high up in the full back strata. It aims to promote them to press when they enter the wing-back position on the pitch so we'll be a tighter unit in midfield, and if counter-pressing, be in a more compact and deeper defensive structure to do so with room to exploit space in behind a team advancing with the ball.

[witchplease]

1 minute ago, BJT said:

That's the intention yes, I don't want my wingers pushing them high up in the full back strata. It aims to promote them to press when they enter the wing-back position on the pitch so we'll be a tighter unit in midfield, and if counter-pressing, be in a more compact and deeper defensive structure to do so with room to exploit space in behind a team advancing with the ball.

Okay thanks, sounds like a good idea.

Got few more questions. Like do you make any change if you go into lead to secure the lead ? Like Mourinho is known for parking the bus and grinding 1-0 results back in his Inter days so do you try to make changes to achieve something like that ? I try to drop mentality and few other changes but mostly it doesn't work for me. Just can't seem to keep clean sheet at all.

[BJT]

I have to admit, I try to plug n play the game as much as possible - Wenger style. A strong plan A with a squad suited to it and let the opponents worry about what we can do. So having the right players is very important.

The only tweaks I make is if we go down to 10 men, which may require a change of a number of things / roles, or time-wasting. Typically if I'm away from home looking to hold onto a lead I'll max it on the current tactic I have. I believe you don't need to change things too much. Fergie's United would still look to counter and kill a game off even very late in a football match.

Mourinho's squads contrastingly always have adaptability and options to do so to park the bus. But could you for instance imagine a Pep Barcelona trying to change his philosophy completely to try and hold onto a lead? Instead, they'll just time waste and keep possession of the ball still playing tiki taka.

So I don't like to disrupt things too much. Let my players do what they are accustomed to tactically and formation wise, but use a degree of intelligence to waste time late on in those tight games when need be.

 

[witchplease]

Okay, thank you. I will try time wasting as you said and maybe not tweak other settings much. Your United squad conceded just 13 goals so atleast it's doable with good players, which i don't have rn so that must be a reason too.

Anyway, any tips on training ? Like defensively is it better to train engaged or disengaged since counter/regroup option is left blank. I usually train both of them but idk, if there are any specific tips you got to share ?

Edited April 1, 2020 by witchplease

[BJT]

Np. Well I play on FM Touch and assume you're on the full version...there isn't training on FMT apart from a generalisation as to what style / area you want to focus on in which I pick "attacking" as my option.

There is also choosing the type of individual player training though as well. I pay close attention to this as I want the player to train the attributes needed for his role in the tactic and choose an appropriate added focus to boost any weak attributes for the role.

I also ensure PPMs do not go against the style of play my tactic produces. This is critical as a tactic can be great, but if a player has PPMs that contradict what you're trying to do, one player can ruin the whole tactic.

[witchplease]

Okay thanks for the tips and the tactic 

[suptirior__]

im gonna test the 4-3-3 whith marseille i have only one question how do i show opp wide defensive player to the touchline ?

[BJT]

7 hours ago, suptirior__ said:

im gonna test the 4-3-3 whith marseille i have only one question how do i show opp wide defensive player to the touchline ?

On the OIs, show LB/LWB onto left foot, and the right side defenders to the right. Offensive players show onto weaker foot both sides. (ML/AML etc)

[suptirior__]

thx man btw your'e tactic is running great its one of the best ive seen this year  after i finish my first season i will give update  

[BJT]

2 hours ago, suptirior__ said:

thx man btw your'e tactic is running great its one of the best ive seen this year  after i finish my first season i will give update  

Good to hear it's working for ya. Yeah please do, what side are you?

[suptirior__]

i'm playing marseille 1st season became 3rd now hoping it even improves a bit whith a couple of transfers 

[BJT]

New System - BJT - 4231 BVB (dload below & on OP above)

A new love for Gegenpressing

Since having a look into gegenpressing more, I was curious to see where Klopp earned his rep as a top boss. I caught a bit of a Dortmund vs Bayern game which was billed as a critical match in deciding where the Bundesliga title would end up at the end of the season.

I could not believe how intense and good a game it was to watch. Bayern with their attempt of a more patient approach, and then Klopp's Dortmund that just hounded them constantly. It forced Bayern to play quicker than they probably would have liked to, but it was a fascinating watch.

And so this formed the idea of me trying to re-produce a gegenpressing system in Klopp's 4231 formation based on his Dortmund side. It has Gundogan as the DLP-D, Kehl the BBM, Gotze the playmaker behind Lewandowski who chased tirelessly up top.

The 4231 formation is a top heavy formation. So where my 433 gegenpressing isn't as intense but more capable of counter-attacking from deep whilst solid in the middle, the 4231 is the complete opposite of Pep's Tiki Taka - this is pure Gegenpressing at 100 miles per hour. 

Plug n Play

This is I believe a great plug n play system for this game if you like to play in this way. As long as you have the players to suit the tactic, it's more important to make substitutions at the right time to re-energy the team given gegenpressing is a very intense tactic physically. So I don't tend to employ time-wasting subs using this. And Klopp himself always likes to use all his subs in a game.

It uses the Very Attacking mentality and so time-wasting is not an option. It plays at the quickest tempo possible. It's really great viewing the matches, as you'll really get to witness your side hound the opponents like dogs for that football.

So make sure your have a squad that have good fitness levels, and wide players with pace and acceleration to cause the opponents problems the moment the side wins the ball back.

Your side will also need good technical players too, as I have incorporated Gundogan and Gotze into this style of football. So it's not all hoof, you will get to watch some good footy too.

OIs

-Show all opposing wide players defensive and offensive to the touchline

Results

I decided to test this with Liverpool, Norwich, and Cove Rangers so far although I may venture abroad as I tend to as some leagues do have different style of football requirements to succeed.

Liverpool - EPL, FA Cup, ECL

We did the treble in this particular season. Nothing spectacular with our league winning points tally, but likely part in due to our success in both the FA Cup and Champions League. Beating City and PSG respectively 3-0 and completely outplaying them in both games, it proves with the right players you can win playing this way on the big occasions.

Norwich - Predicted 20th / Finished 7th Euro Spot

I knew this side would have players to play this system okay. Expected to finish bottom I thought it would be a good test to see where this tactic could take the side. I bought one CB in (Ajer) before the season simply because everyone was injured there. That was the only reinforcement.

We pipped Chelsea on the final day to pinch 7th spot. A really good season surpassing all my expectations. Certainly gegenpressing seems to be the way to go on this FM.

Cove Rangers - Playoffs / Finished Top

You would often expect a real tussle at this level of the game. Zero talent available to select from and so the top and playoff positions should be fairly tight.

It didn't pan out this way, as we stormed to 80 points, ending 15 points clear off of second place. A significant over achievement and winning the league with ease.

The system looks promising. Utilising gegenpressing but with a degree of creativity in the ranks is a very nice combination to have, despite the extra frailties and riskiness of the top heavy formation. As long as you have quality at the back to keep things tight, then this will compensate well the extreme aggressive pressing the tactic employs.

Any testers of this would love to hear some feedback to gauge how consistent this is.

Enjoy!

 

BJT-4231-BVB.fmf

[suptirior__]

Testing this with leicester played 4 w3 d1 l0 beat liverpool 4-1 at home realy trashed them.. Vardy and iheanacho are on fire will keep you updated mate!

[BJT]

31 minutes ago, suptirior__ said:

Testing this with leicester played 4 w3 d1 l0 beat liverpool 4-1 at home realy trashed them.. Vardy and iheanacho are on fire will keep you updated mate!

The 4231 I just created? Do keep me posted! Be nice to get a gist how consistent it is as it's a new one. A good team choice to try it with should be pretty suitable.

[suptirior__]

yes, played 10 games now and i am still unbeaten 
 

beat liverpool 4-1

beat man utd 2-0

drew against arsenal and chelsea 

 

and my ass controls everything i only manage the squad play the games and set the ol's hope it can continue like this 

[BJT]

With any luck might get some more money in January....could do with a bit more punch down the flanks.

[suptirior__]

after 21 games im 7th and im starting to lose more and more games , but maybe thats cause i already played against the top teams.. 

[BJT]

1 hour ago, suptirior__ said:

after 21 games im 7th and im starting to lose more and more games , but maybe thats cause i already played against the top teams.. 

Maybe, bad form also and teams will start adapting against you...and that's where you'll always need players highly suited to the system to continue the good form with sufficient quality when playing very offensively. I guess in my Norwich save though as they're such a crap side relatively teams didn't bother. Keep me posted

[BJT]

Cultural testing - Spa, Ita, Por, Ger

Just to see how a pure gegenpressing system would work in different footballing nations, I've tested in a few other leagues across Europe. I would say it's consistent with achieving or exceeding expectations in the league. Cups perhaps a bit more of a lottery, and a bit of fortune needed to get over the line in the finals. Nevertheless it wins trophies where different styles of football are played.

La Liga -Real Madrid P105 (La Liga Points Record)

League went great, only losing one game all season. However in the cups we were exposed by the better sides. One thing of note though was a couple of player's PPMs don't suit the system being Hazard and Isco. So in this respect it wasn't a bad year all things considered.

Napoli - Serie A Winners P90

Great season here. Realised Mertens wouldn't last the pace all season as our front man. Bought Cavani on the cheap in January which I'm sure helped get us over the line to the Scudetto.

Dortmund Domestic Double - Bundesliga Winners / DFB Pokal Winners

Had to be tested with Klopp's Dortmund. However Gotze is looking a little lazy lately. Had him first half of the season then invested in Aouer in January which proved to be a good decision and we comfortably won the league. Again fortunate in the Cup Final. Mainz played well against us and we needed a penalty shootout to win the final. Nevertheless a domestic double was achieved.

SLB - Quadruple / League Winners, League Cup Winners, Portuguese Cup Winners, Euro Cup Winners

A successful quadruple with the side who do have a bit of cash to spend at the start of the year. I brought in Strakosha in goal, Bentancur in midfield and Kluivert for the flanks. It helped both in quality and depth to fight on all fronts. However everything was close with the league won just ahead of FCP, a Portugal Cup won on penalties, and we beat Man Utd in the Euro Cup final AET.

--

So it looks like it can play across the continent and consistently meet or exceed expectations in the league. It can win cups too, but playing in a very one dimensional way it's very important you have top quality in all areas and a fit energetic and quick squad to be able to play this intense tactic over the course of a full season.

 

[Karlo]

Looks like a fun tactic. I've played with your JM 4231 RM with Ajax and it was decent. Won the league, but got knocked out in the quarter final CL.

Did you play all the matches in the tests above with 'very attacking' mentality?

[BJT]

4 minutes ago, Karlo said:

Looks like a fun tactic. I've played with your JM 4231 RM with Ajax and it was decent. Won the league, but got knocked out in the quarter final CL.

Did you play all the matches in the tests above with 'very attacking' mentality?

Cool  Well, the brainless football of Klopp inspired me to try make it   Yes, the style is the complete opposite of tiki taka and the most extreme gegenpressing. So yes all very attacking mentality, didn't change anything it's a pure Wenger style plan a no b. Just make sure you have a squad fully geared to play this way for it to work well.

[suptirior__]

i just finished my first season whith leicester and i became 4th in PL!!

the signings i made where viktor tsyganov (rw) and danielle rugani on loan 

verry happy whith the results!! will keep you updated about season two hope its even better whith a couple of signings !

[BJT]

7 minutes ago, suptirior__ said:

i just finished my first season whith leicester and i became 4th in PL!!

the signings i made where viktor tsyganov (rw) and danielle rugani on loan 

verry happy whith the results!! will keep you updated about season two hope its even better whith a couple of signings !

And there I was thinking 6th spot would be a good achievement  Cheers for the updates glad it worked well! It will be harder with all the extra fixtures though and Vardy getting on a bit.  Consolidation should be the aim if you can and with all the extra money push on after that.